Interior Minister Yishai: Absence of conversion law poses danger to Jewish people

When G-d comes to Earth he won't consult the Israeli rabbinate to find out who is a legitimate convert. Likewise, the next mass murder of the Jews won't care how that Jew became Jewish. We can all be Jews while not all being the same. G-d can understand this. Why can't the Chief Rabbinate? Judaism should stress unity and not conformity.

than those who were born Jewish in much the same way the world holds Israel to a higher standard than other nations. For example during a recent Shabat (Israel) I visited friends and as the couple chomped down on a ham and cheese sandwich they said they were sending teir twin daughters to an orthodox school in the Fall in order to learn what it is to be a Jew. when they are older they can decide how religious the adult children wish to be. I wanted to ak if the parents were then going to keep Kosher and keep Shabat but the hypocrisy was already to much. Given the fact the parents are not event as religious as Conservative or Progressive Jews I think the regular school system would probably give this couples children the religious teaching in line with the family life style without confusing the children.

The institution of "conversion" is post biblical. The bible did not know of any conversion process other than "assimilation", marrying into an Israelite family and thus becoming part of Israel (like Ruth the Moabite). After the Return from Exile (of Babylon, 538 BCE) the community became more pious (since only the pious returned). In Ezra 10 there is the sad story of Ezra, having discovered that many of the Returnee families married foreign wives, eventually gets the community to force them to divorce and send the wives and their children away. No question of possible conversion. It didn't exist yet. Another regrettable event is described in Ezra 4. The Returnees began building the Second Temple. The locals, who didn't go into exile but still worshiped the God of Israel wanted to participate and help in the building. But they were rejected, because among them were those exiled by the Assyrians to settle in Samaria. That community, believed to have later become the Samaritans, started causing trouble and delayed the Temple's construction. About a century later, the Samaritans built their own Temple on Mount Gerizim, which competed with Jerusalem. That Temple was built for service by a Jerusalem priest who also married a foreign woman and was kicked out by Nehemiah. The historical lesson: It is good to convert, or you raise for yourself a fifth column which will become long lasting trouble maker.

Spanish scientists found Sephardi & Palestinian DNAs are very similar - Hebrew is the language of prayers for Jews, Arabic is the language of prayer for Muslims, But I think God is polyglot and sure He accepts prayers in any language - I have tried Sanskrit with Him; it worked... Though God made many promises - But for some wisdom of His own might change his mind without notice - Look how silent He was during the Holocaust - Let us pray for peace "real peace" in all languages!

For centuries Judaism has taken many forms but yet there has been an unbreakable bond between us. We have adapted to may cultures and survived, often because of this bond. The very foundation of our faith has been our ability to have dialogue that constantly challanges each other while accepting individuals and their beliefs. The conversion bill is nothing more than creating a Jewish nationalism to the exclusion of all other Jews in the world. It isolates Israel and reinforces a fortress mentality that will continue to ignore the realities of the world and the beauty of its diversity.

The Orthodox establishment is insane--they are mamserim.

Reform is akin to Jew's for Jesus and it is not a Jewish sect, therefore it would be inappropriate to accept Reform conversions.

Why was this conversion bill put forward by a member, granted Orthodox, from the racist party, Yisrael Beiteynu? Why did these rabbis from the religious power groups climb on board in support? They both can pimp one another. How? These relgious parites solidify their power and the nationalist/secularists in YB get their Russian constituency legitimised. Shas has agreed to form municipal rabbinical councils with rabidly nationalist rabbis, of the ilk of Druckman, to serve and for the sake of demographics, they will not be so stringent in their demands of asking female converts if they will wear trousers or use a tea bag on Shabbat. This is all about demographics, getting more Jews to offset the higher Arab birth rate. Consider that both YB and Shas are vehemently opposed to the formation of a Palestinian state, so this is a way that these two power blocs can kill two birds with one stone. It's all about demographics and little to do with religion. The need the likes of Anastasia Michaeli, a convert, in their midst. She exhibits the racialist instincts that they need for Israel's future.

I would not want strict Rabbi's deciding who gets in. It seems it would hinder my wife's and mine formal cOnversion. We are ADL and support Israel mote than some lefty Jews. Lefty liberals are the worst common enemy of the world. Jews. voting for Democrats are a. Disgrace and stupid idiots. It seems Rabbi's deciding would slow /eliminate badly needed Jews. DO NOT TRUST OR SUPPORT LIBERALS AND DEMOCRATS THAT ARE NOT TRUE FRIENDS AND HAVE/WILL THROW ISRAEL UNDER THE BUS To appease our nemies into fightingm?WWIII!

Non-orthodox, anti-occupation Jews are becoming increasingly alientated from Israel anyway. If the state continues on its extremist path it will ultimately degrade into pockets of ultra -orthodox living in enclaves under Palestinian rule. Then they will probably get their marching orders too. Fundamentalist Jews will have destroyed the Jewish homeland.

"The Reform Jews are using the political situation to blackmail the prime minister. They sit there and they want to dictate our lives," the rabbi told Kol Barama radio. What an interesting transformation of reality! For decades the Haredi parties have been blackmailing the political establishment with the power of their swing-vote status in coalition formation as, even in this article, Rabbi Amar is threatening to leave should his faction not get its way. But my intention is not to promote the divisiveness so much a part of Israeli politics. My interest is in preserving the Zionist purpose of the state of the Jews. "If you fear the Reform [Jews], you won't have a state," Rabbi Amar warned Netanyahu. But the point, rabbi, is that while there will always be the state, what kind of state? Will it serve the Jewish people, or only those identified by your own limited criteria? You would have Israel citizenship, aliya, based on your own understanding of Halacha, as if yours were the only valid definition of that which is redefined by all generations in response to the issues of the day. What you demand, rabbi, would destroy the very foundation of Zionism, a state for ALL Jews. Israel, the state of the Jews, was not born of those now demanding its limited identity but by mostly secular Zionism, confronting Shoah, and our survivors. You say, rabbi, that you are fighting for the soul of Judaism. But what good is a soul without the life that gives it meaning? Judaism and our people are no more secure today than in the past. Antisemitism described as intense today as in the years leading up to Shoah. Israel’s most important function is not to promote our religion, but to provide refuge. This is guaranteed under one of the first Basic Laws enacted by the state, the 1950 Law of Return. The law reads, “Every Jew has the right to come to this country as an oleh.” And lest there be any misunderstanding, the Grandchild Clause welcomes even those of a single Jewish grandparent threatened “as Jew” by their host country. Israel is OUR country, rabbi, yours, mine and even those who deny its standing before G”d. Let us all keep our eye on the bigger picture.

The Jews should be happy if someone want to convert him/herself to Judaism. Now a days you should not be allwaysbe proud of beeing a Jew. The ways the Jews in Israel treat Jews who think diffirentlley and/of other people from other reliions or backgrounds, you should be ashamed of yourself!!

This is very bad for Jews as they will become most extrmist in the world and will cause more damage to the civilised world which they are doing already

The Coalition of the Willing is breaking up in Afghanistan. We need boots on the ground to spread the load. Israel's interests are identical with the US, so where are the troops?

Judaism is as much a tradition as it is a religion. Jewish culture entails both orthodox practices and the different Jewish identities created by the diaspora around the world. Not all of these branches are represented by the Chief Rabbinate. For the state to give official powers of conversion to the Chief Rabbinate, the different identities under the 'jewish' umbrella would be undermined into a lump-sum of orthodoxy. Jewish culture is no longer just a religion, thus a strictly religious body cannot govern its members. It's a dumb idea, put simply. Yishai is only trying to cede more power to Shas while he can, giving them some form of permanency within the government.

Only Melanie, no. 62 mentioned the issue of state and religion. That is the whole point here. Whether this or that conversion is a proper one is a religious issue and should be discussed by religious authorities, and whatever decision they make in whatever religious forum will be binding on their followers, if they so choose. To remind all and sundry - the Knesset is a civil lawmaking body, not a religious one. How does a law concerning a religious issue come to be an issue in the civil Knesset?! If I were the chief rabbi I'd be furious too that the Knesset is discussing relgious precepts. The same anger I would feel if I were just a plain old citizen with a civil gripe who found herself stuck in a rabbinical court. The point, the basic problem, the nub, is that state and religion must be separated for the sake of them both. 84 other talkbacks till now reflect the general discussion in the general public as well - off the point because nobody wants to discuss the point. We're bringing ourselves down by our own hand, and not even understanding what is happening. Neither religion nor the state can flourish in this situation. A pity on both of them.

Yishai and those like him are the true danger to the Jewish People. What is this Haredi demogogue doing as interior minister. He (and his cohorts) have got to go.

As Orthodoxy becomes balcker and blacker, their stringencies become heqavier and heavier: kosher is no longer kosher you must be glatt. Eruvim for carrying are becoming phased out, impossible to construct, the sepration of the sexes has become almost Muslim in its strictness. More is better. Stricter is better. A frum woman caught without her hair covered, or wearing trousers!!?? Reason for revoking the conversion. Life has become burdensome and God forbid, there should be any mingling with the gentiles!! But for the sake of quantiy of getting larger numbers of Jews, like amillion Russian, ah, well ,then for the sake of demographics theis can be found who will sit on certain municipal rabbinical councils who will be a little less stringent in their requirements, but my god what better way to get a million more kosher Jews; maybe not glatt kosher Jews, but Jews, so these Orthodox hypocrites who run their power blocks keep their power and the nationalist get their numbers to help displace the Arabs.

Do you not find it interesting that this bill came from Yisrael Beitenyu a laregely secular and Russian supported party? This bill and its timing have little to do with religion and everything to do with demographics. The nationalists need more Jews so the nationalist parties join forces with the religious fanatics, strange bedfellows, in ofer to increase the demographics and have more non-Jews now counted as Jews. These orthodox hypocrites weep and wail and gansh their teeth likie packs of irate Pharisees over the Reform and Conservative and beeat their breasts accusing them of working to end the Jewish People bu..... ah...and her's the rub. These bearded ones make a pack with the Russians. They will be able to shop around and in the pool will be a set of the bearded and approved to perform the conversion who are orthodox but not quite so scrupulous with the Russians who may stll wear trousers and eat kilbasa, who may use o tea bag on shabbat, but whose asking? In other words, they'll get the same kind of conversion as the reform and conservaqtive they condemn but they will have achieved the demographic advantage which is what they really want: more Jews to settle on stolen land and more Jews to displace more Palestinians. Thats what this sham is all about.

No one who is not a lunatic right-wing religious fanatic cannot be a real Jew. And all Israeli's who are not rabidly right-wing religious fanatics had better get the point being driven home by the men who they have chosen to rule their nation before they discover they are not REAL Jews and thus have no future in the Haredi Republic of Isran.

Israel is the only western country where the majority of Jews, the Reform and Conservative ones, cannot practice their religion freely. If Israel continues to be ruled by Jewish Taliban perhaps it's time for us to stop blindly supporting Israel until they stop spitting in our faces. Are there no decent political leaders left? Do they all have to prostitute themselves for political gain like Yvette Liberman does?

when is a jew not a jew? I'm just curious.

anyone who is brave enough to become Jewish should be able to do so without the sole tyranny of the ultraorthodox

Israel's agenda is very busy nowadays. Belief is personal and state has nothing to do with it except some organizations to facilitate or to answer religious requirements of the people. (even that kind of state organisation is controversial.) Settlers are on one side, ultra-orthodoxes are on the other side. Peace and human-rights are tattered in the middle. On the other hand, not many people noticed in Israel, but there are some historical excavations in Hatay (Alexandria), and the findings dated back to BC 690 are interesting. The remarks of archeologists about their findings and religion may be striking for Israelis' belief. - just a footnote.

So, if only Orthodox Jews are Jews and us Reforms and Conservatives are not 'true Jews', but some undefined new religion, does that mean that we are not part of the pact of the Jewish people with Israel? Does it mean that "Israel are guarantor to each other" does not apply to us? Does it mean Israel doesn't really count on our support as a group and we will each of decide individually whether we want to spend our energy and time and money on fighting for Israel or other causes like Darfur?

I am saddened, not only by this bill and what it represents, but my the comments of some in this "talk-back" session. In general, the Jews of the world should support Israel and stay out of its politics. Since our sons and daughters don't fight in the Israeli army, the Jews outside of Israel should not get involved in the internal politics. That is, until it affects us directly. This bill will alienate most of the Jews in the US and elsewhere outside of Israel, because we are being told our Judaism is not "real"or "acceptable" because we are not Orthodox. I am deeply saddened by the intolerance by Jews of other Jews who were not raised up the same way they were. I have seen for decades the double standard the rest of the world has for Israel and the Jews. We have so much tsoris from them, why are some Jews trying to divide us apart? If you missed response "bronxite10" made to comment #39 below, read it. He said it better than I ever could.

only confirms that Israel is a THEOCRACY. Religous legislation has no place in a democratic institution. Are you kidding me? Arab members in the Knesset will get to vote on this! Israel is the largest stage for the theater of the absurd.

Strange is it not. The 'Chalutzim' and the secular left built the Israeli State on ideas of equality and justice; and the 'Charedim' are bent on on destroying it.

This IS NOT a religious issue. It is an issue of the violation of the civil rights of Jewish citizens of Israel and of those outside israel to practice Judaism in their own traditions. The Israeli public needs to have a march on the Knesset like the one Martin Luther King had on Washington. Wake up Israel, before it's too late!

Zionism was supposed to create "the New Jew." If this bill becomes law, the New Jew will be nothing more than 21st variant 17th century Polish Jewry. In the 1930's, my then teenaged mother stood on a street corner in Chicago collecting money for the JNF because she believed that Zionism was the way to get away from the exisiting forms of Judaism - assimilationist Classical Reform Judaism and male chauvinist, narrow minded Orthodoxy. I cannot imagine that she and her cronies would have ever thought that Eretz Israel would become the Land of the Black Hats. My wife lights candles on Shabbat, keeps a Kosher Kitchen, attends services and traveled four hours round trip to go to a mikhvah before her conversion. But if this bill becomes law, she will not have a stake in the state of Israel because it was a non-Orthodox conversion. It is bad enought to have my patriotism as an American questioned because I am Jewish without have Israeli question my Jewishness because I am not Orthodox

http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/138661

Only one way to stop Haredi religious dominance is for the Zionist, Reform and Conservative people of the country to become more vocal in their religious and political activities.

Reading Talkback it is obvious that there is already a schism among Jews and the bill hasn't even been passed yet!

Jew is the somebody who was born a Jew. Period. All other classifications are just whimsical exercises. Anybody can convert into ardent followers of Trinity (E.G., Lenin, Brunhilda and Jupiter).and have admiration of their supporters. Why is it out of sudden we have these problems in Israel? Gentile citizens do not need to convert - the state should be blind in regard of the ethnicity.

"The Reform Jews are using the political situation to blackmail the prime minister. They sit there and they want to dictate our lives," the rabbi told Kol Barama radio. What an interesting transformation of reality! For decades the Haredi parties have been blackmailing the political establishment with the power of their swing-vote status in coalition formation as, even in this article, Rabbi Amar is threatening to leave should his faction not get its way. But my intention is not to promote the divisiveness so much a part of Israeli politics. My interest is in preserving the Zionist purpose of the state of the Jews. "If you fear the Reform [Jews], you won't have a state," Rabbi Amar warned Netanyahu. But the point, rabbi, is that while there will always be the state, what kind of state? Will it serve the Jewish people, or only those identified by your own limited criteria? You would have Israel citizenship, aliya, based on your own understanding of Halacha, as if yours were the only valid definition of that which is redefined by all generations in response to the issues of the day. What you demand, rabbi, would destroy the very foundation of Zionism, a state for ALL Jews. Israel, the state of the Jews, was not born of those now demanding its limited identity but by mostly secular Zionism, confronting Shoah, and our survivors. You say, rabbi, that you are fighting for the soul of Judaism. But what good is a soul without the life that gives it meaning? Judaism and our people are no more secure today than in the past. Antisemitism described as intense today as in the years leading up to Shoah. Israel’s most important function is not to promote our religion, but to provide refuge. This is guaranteed under one of the first Basic Laws enacted by the state, the 1950 Law of Return. The law reads, “Every Jew has the right to come to this country as an oleh.” And lest there be any misunderstanding, the Grandchild Clause welcomes even those of a single Jewish grandparent threatened “as Jew” by their host country. Israel is OUR country, rabbi, yours, mine and even those who deny its standing before G”d. Let us all keep our eye on the bigger picture.

I you think Mr. Netanyahu that this bill will tear the jewish people apart stop it that's why you are prime minister. Put your foot down for once and stop the religious fanatics before it is too late.It is beginning to look as if all jews that are not haredim are second class citizens in Israel too. The only person who was strong enough to stand up against the religious bloc who are a minority in this country was Tommy Lapid. A pity there is not another person in this country who can follow in his foot steps.

how or why is it that someone has reached to the position of their prospective spouse, to convert in the first place? Are they living in a shrinking Jewish community? Do they subscribe to the cliches about the Jewish community? Are there personal limitations as to one's acceptance by members of their existing Jewish community? These are questions to address when considering conversions, rather then who's authorized for the Jewish conversion process. That's my opinion.

No need to wait for Hamas and Hezbullah to destroy Israel, the Sephardic rabbinate is way ahead of them.

You can't just make up your own set of rules and expect Jews who follow the Torah to agree! If you want to have a fake religion in America, go for it. But over here in Israel we'll have the real thing. No Reform or Conservative conversions. You're just fooling yourselves.

After all, displeasing Supreme Court rulings are ignored. I don't see the problem.

Diaspora jews rely on Israel for spiritual support. Israel relis on the Jews of the Diaspora for its financial support and for lobbyying foreign governments. This law if passed would be disastrous for Israel and world Jewr. Netanyahu understands that.

Democracy and religion are in flat contradiction. You can either be a democratic/secular state governed by the rule of law or a religious state governed by the rule of “God” as it is dictated by the priests, rabbis, imams or whatever. In the second case the individuals has no rights against since the so called “God” or his clerics rule (like Iran and Israel). As long as you do not have a secular state and exclude those religious dudes from the government, there is no way to survive. Turkish Republic applied this method and survived after the collapse of the Ottoman Empire. Easy formula, just try it.

.... so how did the gestapo know whom to kill and Shas doesn't know whom to marry and with whom?

....It's their problem. Take it or leave it.... and the like.... instead of behaving humanly and finding ways not to hurt other Jews....because they lack a document or something like that,.... do the opposite and let them hang in a vacuum of humanity. without an entrance or exit....

When the State of Israel was formalized in 1948, two things were omitted: no constitution was written, AND the "who is a jew" issue fell, by default, into the jurisdiction of the religious orthodox jews, who were only too happy to get to regulate this all important religious issue! So now, 6 decades later, some lawmakers want to deal with the issue by passing a law. With time, this issue is going to become even more urgent. Scripture informs us that the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob is going to bring all the seed of Abraham, through Jacob, His chosen children. back to the Promised Land. This means that the 9 million or so diaspora jews are going to arrive in Israel. When that happens, there must be an agreed-upon definition of "who is a jew". Of course, those jews who are self-hating, israel-trashing standing-in-solidarity-with-the-enemy will eliminate themselves from being counted and identified, as jews. May the God of Abraham, Isaac and Jacob give clarity and wisdom to the lawmakers so that His Will be done on planet earth as it is in Heaven.

We don't need more non commited Jews. We need to bring back the Jews we have. We need more Jewish education for the ignorant Jews in particular reform whose ignorance of Judaism is astounding. The blind and dumb converting the masses won't help the Jewish people. It will just dilute them

(1). Israel must have a Constitution: The 10 Commandments of Torah. There. There's your Constitution. (2).Conversion: See above + Mikvah bath. Torah states quite clearly that's adequate for a proper conversion. (3). The word "Jew" is derived from Judah. In my opinion one who wants to be Jewish is one who wants to be part of the Tribe of Judah. Now what if one is a decendant of Joseph or Benjamin, also sons of Jacob - lives by the 10 Commandments of G-d and believes in Torah but not want to be part of the Tribe of Judah? Was it not that Ephraim, youngest son of Joseph, grandson of Jacob receive the inheritance of Israel ? Now we have Judeans and Israelites. There is no such thing as "Jewish" unless you decend from the Tribe of Judah. If you decend from the Tribe of Ephraim and Manasseh, you are Israelites. Both share common bonds but one denomination - the 10 Commandments of G-d. The Tribe of Judah and the Tribe of Israel can not survive without eachother. Now allow the prospective convertee decide which tribe he/she wishes to bond with. Now if anyone wants to join the Tribe of Reuben, Simon, Zebulun, Naphtali, Issachar, Gad, Asher & Dan...go knock on Judah's door; the Haredi & Shas Rabbis awaits you. The Levites? No right of passage as this lineage is passed only from father to son regardless of who they marry! Now if you wish to unify all fractions...the "End of Times" will solve that problem when a decendant of great wisdom and courage whose blood lineage crosses between both Judah and Ephraim unites them all. Until then, it's happy pickings while the modern Jewish world as we know it today will continue to be divided. Don't believe me? Starting reading Torah; the book of Genesis and the book of Revelations to be more specific. It's all there! Now I'm just going to sit back and pray for the Moshiah to come quickly because the whole conversion process is a sham, it's corrupt and it's down right disgraceful on all sides. I know who I am, my children know who they are, G-d knows who we are - and that's all that counts!!!

The basic idea in the present bill is allow all local official rabbinic courts to carry out conversions, thus not centralizing the process but allowing potential converts to shop around for lenient courts. More courts would mean more converts. The "flaw" in the bill, according to the Reforms and Conservatives, is that it also mentions explicitly that conversion comes under the authority of the Chief Rabbinate. OK, DELETE this statement from the bill. The official rabbinic courts in any case are under the authority of of the Chief Rabbinate, so all these conversions will remain orthodox. This should satisfy the Haredim, and the improved bill will achieve its purpose.

but the conversion law as it is written is even more dangerous. Normally, I believe that anybody, Jews or non-Jews, should refrain from meddling in Israel's internal affairs, such as security issues. But this is something that affects Jews all over the world. A conversion bill needs to be created after long and intense dialogue between leaders of the major Jewish movements.

The origin of the conversion bill is by the secular Yisrael Beitenu Party consisting of recent Russian immigrants and mostly secular Jews or non Jewish immigrants. They live in Israel and appreciate having a conversion done in a way that will be accepted by all Jews.. Reform Judaism has nothing to offer to them. They live Jewish culture, celebrate Jewish holidays, and Judaismis their way of life. If they want to be Dati (orthodox) they can and if they do not wish to be Orthodox then they can be secular, Conservative or Reform Jews. The vast majority choose to be secular or Orthodox while a minuscule number choose to be "liberal " Jews. Unfortunately the intermarriage rate and assimilation of the non Orthodox Jews is creating a loss of future generations of Jews in the Unite States. We in Israel do not wish to import beliefs that will cause the loss of Israel as a Jewish Democratic State.

this conversion law is wrong on so many levels and will never see the light of day. however only israelis can stop it. there are petitions for israelis to sign. all israelis should stop this new law. but again this is an israeli law. why does haaretz need to tell the world? oh wait!! haaretz is against israel and jews in general. this story is great anti israel press!

Shlomo Amar and his ilk should try a conclave to nominate a pope. They are as rabid as the papacy and its black magic doctrines

As you know, there are Jews in places other than Israel, more so than in Israel. For Israel to take upon itself the right to decide who is Jewish and who is not is a tad presumptuous.

Israel will betray it's principle of being a refuge for all jews, not some sect. If anything a DNA test would determine judaic roots.

the conversion law might sunder the Jewish nation irreparably...

They can have their own thoughts about conversion but why do they have to pass laws about it? There are not and have never been laws about it in any other country.

I proposet two Israeli/Palestinian states. One for the Ultra Religious, the Muslim Ayatollahs with the Jewish Ultra Orthodox in one state, and the sane Jews and Palestinians in the other. One problem occurs to me; its not hard to guess which state will be lobbing qassams into the other.

When one enters the United States they are given citizenship classes and then they must pass a test. I'm Jewish but didn't get a Bar Mitzvah at 13 because my family was way too disfunctional and my Mom wouldn't listen to me when I told her the Gentiles were beating the crap out of me. Anyway, I later took a Jewish History class at Cal State Long Beach that was very intensive given by a Rabbi. It was great! Instead of all this arguing, mandate that everyone in Israel, including the Arabs, and anyone who wants to live there, take a course on the History of the Jewish People. That's Jewish enough for me. There isn't anybody that wouldn't be touched emotionally and spiritually by that experience. May I recommend Howard M. Sachar's book? I think that might be the best one.

Why a conversion law? Why is conversion an affair of state? It's a matter between a person willing to convert and a religious community they want to convert to. State and religion have to be strictly segregated. If not then the whole state can be considered being a theocracy! Is Israel a theocracy?

and the ultra-orthodox in unholy collusion...

poses spiritual danger to Jewish people!!!

It is out of fear that the Orthodox and Hardim are encircling the wagons and trying to constrict the growth of Judaism. They seem to find comfort in emulating centralized Catholicism and the papacy. Judaism's greatest strength is its diversity of opinion. Whoever wants to be a Jew, in whatever manner, should be wholeheartedly accepted. One of our greatest sages, Hillel, converted freely, believing that converts were pure of heart in their intention to becoming Jews. No one has the right to deny someone who wants to serve G-d as a Jew! This tendency to be "purists" pervades Orthodox Jewry and must stop! Open your hearts!

Which possibly isn't even the biggest one(like it matters), demands monopoly over conversion, saying it would create a rift in Judaism NOT to pass this law... ... ... . .. . . .. nope, can't think of a nice way to say what's on my mind. I hope Bibi doesn't succumb to their threats.

The issue of conversion is very, very complex, and no one trusts that the Conservative and Reform has done, will do, or can do anything positive for the welfare of the Jewish people. These branches of Judaism is more influenced by political-cultural influences they are by historical spiritual sustainability.

Conservative and Reform churches are not Judiasm and have no say. Orthodoxy should run the conversion situation as it is a religious topic.

The continued existence of the single Jewish State is being taken for granted. If Israel would cease to exist, Jews around the world will either be forced back into ghetto's or they would fear so much that they would start hiding the fact. History shows this, so I suggest you start learning from it. The dangers to Israel are real. Jews need to realize this and start to find more common ground to unite. The Reform movement especially has pushed Jews further and further apart. It's timem to move back.

It's not only about conversion. I belong to a Conservative synagogue in Israel. My rabbis are not recognized by the religious authorities in Israel. They cannot perform weddings, grant divorces or conversions. My synagogue was built entirely by congregant and foreign contributions, while Orthodox synagogues are funded by the government. We buy our own prayerbooks, Torah scroolls and prayer shawls - the Orthodox get government money. When I die, my funeral will be either Orthodox or entirely secular. One of these days, when Reform and Conservative Jews are numerous enough, I hope they will unite with the seculars and revolt.

It is a pity that due to the political power of the Ultra Orthodox parties in Israel, most Israelis are not familiar with conservative Judaism and reform Judaism. Young people especially young women in Israel don't go to synagogues because they feel totally not part of the services ( seating in separate areas). I hope and pray that one day Israel, like the rest of the enlightened world, will have a separation of religion and state and that people will not be subjected to the demands of the Orthodox parties ( such as who has the right to marry, or must go to a mikveh and when etc, etc, ). Women in particular are subject to all these rules and must find a way to exercise their freedom from them.

The biblical story of Ruth, whether true or not, provides an example of how conversion should be done. It was very simple: Ruth moved from Moab to Bethlehem and thereby became Jewish. No rabbinical courts, no learning Torah, no mikveh, no laws, no demands she observe mitzvot (the precepts of the Torah). If conversion were to be returned to this simple method, all immigrants from the former Soviet Union, as well as all illegal immigrants from Africa, would automatically become Jewish. End of problem. And, please, you frummies and blackhatters,, please don't BS me about what Chazal have to say about Ruth's conversion. They lived hundreds of years after the supposed event and didn't know beans about it except for what the Book of Ruth told them.

Netanyahu is entirely correct.

we cannot alienate the Jews of the Diaspora. This conversion bill will tear apart the fabric of the Jewish People who has enough troubles as it is.

If Netanyahu is really serious about blocking this bill, he can DEMAND that all coalition members oppose it, i.e., demand coalition discipline. This, of course, will make Shas, and perhaps also United Torah Judaism, resign, bringing down the government. So I have my doubts as to whether Netanyahu will really take all measures to block the bill.

If I need to know what manner of death to impose upon adulterers and homosexuals I'll consult Halaha. If I need to know what kind of spices to burn on my altar to the god-guy I'll consult Halaha. If I need to know how to sacrifice my goats and sheep and how to ritually sprinkle their blood it's Halaha all the way. But if I need to know what rules to abide by in regard to everyday life I'll employ common sense in conjunction with well-evolved, well-settled civil law. Halaha is due for a re-write and update.

Who says that the fanatics that comprise the orthodox movement get it right? Who elected them to make rules for the rest of us? Their points of view are just singular (minority) points of view in the sea of ideas that are out here and have no more validity than anyone elses. As far as conversion goes, Jews need people. I'd accept anyone who is righteous and of good will into the fold regardless of who performed the conversion. Aside from that, the state should stay out of it and the orthodox can bestow recognition on anyone they want.

This fantasy that the Haredi have invented and indoctrinated people in Israel with, that there is historically only one way to convert, has no basis in reality or Jewish History. Do you REALLY believe every lonely Jewish guy who immigrated to Russia and married a local girl demanded the Beis Din Version of a Jewish Conversion? 94% of European Jewry has maternal DNA (MtDNA) that is European. Maybe we should investigate everybody's family tree. But I don't think the Beis Din would like that too much. Starting with DNA test.

is that no rabbi, not even all of them taking together could make another human a Jew. Only the process of giyur can, a process of transforming identity, a process of transforming a gentile to a Jew. And that is what present proposal to the Israeli law is trying to establish.

So what is the problem? Why not allow people to privilege of choosing a municipal rabbi to work with?Plus, the Chief Rabbinate is not made up solely of haredi rabbis. It is the way the system works NOW, that unless someone is willing to pretend to be hareidi, they're not able to convert, and women have their conversions revoked if someone sees them wearing pants on the street.

Is this a charade, based on the timing with u.s. issues, to have the prime minister appear to be a voice of moderation and compromise?

This bill comes to address a REAL problem in Israel. There are some 320,000 not-Halakhically Jewish (mostly Russians) people in Israel, who identify with the Jewish community, serve in the IDF, send their children to Jewish schools, etc., but suffer from their Halakhic status. For example, the other day the village of Noqdim denied 10 such families the right to join them for fear that their own children will fall in love with a non-Jew. Everybody, except the Haredim, understands that this has to be solved. I think the deal worked out between the Russians and Haredim will allow many more conversions, and will NOT affect adversely (in reality) the Reforms and Conservatives. If not this bill, let Netanyahu try to get people to improve it somewhat. But solving the REAL issue of the Russians is essential.

Religious extremism now invading the lives of many Jews the world over.

This is about keeping marriage and conversion laws in a manner to unify all the Jewish factions. Otherwise, Orthodox will be shutout of being able to marry reform or Conservative Jews in their cchikdren's future. It is Jewish unity law!

How can you have a dozen standards for what it means to be Jew? Nothing prevents a person from a studying a little bit more and be more stringent so that the conversion is recognized by all segments of the Israeli society. Put away personal issues and think about the unity of Israel. This is a good bill.

The Israeli bill is evidence of Israeli hatred and bigotry against Americans. Evidence that Israel is not an ally of America, nor is it the home for Jews. Israel pretends to be an American ally for the dollars.

the ultra orthodox should dicide only for their croup. any person who proves love for israel and judaism has the right to convert. i am not religious ,yet no one can contest my love for israel and my love for everything beautiful and honest in the jewish tradition.

I am anti religious, however, I must add my 2 cents worth here- who decided that the ultra orthodox are the "real Jews" and thus, can decide on who is jewish? Who appointed these dellusional people to decide on that question? Le's get religion out of politics- time to have a constitution and separation of state and religion.

so that the converst would be universally recongized. Non-orhodox conversions do not fit this standard because their Rabbis are not bound by Halacha (The Jewish Law).

This is the next step in Israel dumping on America. First, Israel ramps up colonization of the West Bank and humiliates the President and Vice President. Now that Israel has put Obama and Biden in their places, Israel will now put American Jews in their place. This is called biting the hand that feeds you. Israel must be assured that American Jews will take orders as blindly as does the American gov't. If not, if American Jews can think for themselves, Israel could be in trouble. Just picture it: Israel is in trouble. Israel needs help. Israel tells American Jews: OK, you Jews who aren't real Jews, do what we say and make Congress continue giving us a blank check.

I felt like I was in a Christian church.

This is a wrong debate: identity is a psychic problem and nobody can tell who is Jewish and who is not. There are many ways of being Jewish and it is not a rabbi or a bill that will tell anyone if he feels Jewish or not. You can't determine someone's identity from outside.

The last time this happenned was 70AD when Pharasees (Conservative and Reform Jews) went to war against he Zealots(Orthodox Jews)...we lost Jerusalem and a lot more. When will we ever learn?

The extreme right has already put Judaeism asunder. Their mantra is clear, anyone who is not a right-wing religious extremists is not a Jew. The bill is simply a legal extension of the reality which Israel has already created. Israel supports the Haredi, it coddles them, it empowers them, why should they not feel that they, and only they are the 'real' Jews?

If they followed halakha, there would be no issue.

what has the amount and % of jews from the USA todo with israel??? better a good neigbour then a far friend, our politics should be aimed how to connect to our neigbours and religious things are religious and that is why there is a chief rabinate in jerusalem. giloni or dati, if you like it or not i think connecting these matters to amount and % of people living in the usa , is like not understanding the religious importance of this.

Reform movement should remove the word "Judaism" from the name of the religion they are practicing to avoid in the future confusions and other problems (like this one about conversion)

clout of his party in the next elections, when he will remain cheek-by-jowl with the majority ultra-orthodox majority...

that of the dominant Jewish denominations, Orthodox, Conservatism and Reform have more similarities and consistencies than differences. I have become familiar with all three in the Diaspora (unlike any of these MK members) over four decades and it's completely unconscionable to exempt from Judaism those who have always been part of the community of the Jewish Nation. If we are to scrutinize the affiliation of one's Judaism, what's stopping us from scrutinizing the physiques of one's Judaism eg. Semitic features vs. not? It's barbaric in this day and age to even go there. Exclusion is victimization, make no mistake.

welcome converts into Judaism We are the only group that makes it so difficult to convert. Get over the ghetto mind set when conversion to Judaism was a capital crime . There are many many sincere people who want to become caring identifying Jews. Remember there are Halachically qualifying Jews who have become apostates and have used their Jewish credentials as a club to hurt us

With this bill, alml enlightened Jews are going to make it to the USA, leaving medieval Jews who resufe to work or serve in the army behind. This means Israel is doomed, unless extremists who try to divide the Jewish people are stopped in their harmful tactics.

The orthodox should accept that Judaism is multi-denominational. Why should they have a last say in what is and what is true Judaism.

With this bill, alml enlightened Jews are going to make it to the USA, leaving medieval Jews who resufe to work or serve in the army behind. This means Israel is doomed, unless extremists who try to divide the Jewish people are stopped in their harmful tactics.

'Jewish by blood' has very familiar tones. A guy with a funny little moustache tried something like that over 70yrs ago... didn't work. Why not catholic by blood, or hindu, or muslim by blood. The jews have learned all the wrong lessons from history. Here is my proposal. Forget the religious nonsense. Withdraw from the West Bank, completely; leave no settlements. If the Arabs attack after that, then we can drop some huge bombs on them.

I lived in Israel, I love Israel and I thought many times to become a Jew. The I discovered, that no matter what I'll do I'll be a second quality Jew, a Mamzer and me, my family my children will be mamzerim. It seems that no matter what someone will do it will be a foreigner in the lists of Ministry of interior, on graveyards and at every single religious issue. Iit breaks my heart but I could not transform my children in second hand human beings, hated by the world for being Jews and hated by Jews as being not of pure blood.

Is Jewishness a race or a religion? This bill's passage would move the definition closer to a purely racial one. This is ironic since on a religious level, Israel, and the promises of God, are to 12 tribes, not three. We don't know who or where the other 10 are, which frustrates racial definitions. A Jew should be someone who identifies as such, in whatever way they want to do so.

By allowing the myth of a pretend conversion to continue this is what is causing untold hardship to the individuals who later discover that it is not authentic with all the hardship this brings an epedemic should be cured not allowed to spread only to be descovered at a later time that it is negative a fake degree is a fake so is a fake conversion this is deception on a national scale and must be recognised as such no amount of self delusion can make it correct even in the sincere minds of those who are being cheated and are unaware that they are being misled

The petulant braying of the conservative and reform heretical movements is of no concern at all. Our decendents shall still be Torah-true Jews, when the reform and conservative fads and flavors or the month are long forgotten and consigned to the junk heap of history.

Please also note that Orthodox rabbis have concern as well that their conversions wouldn't be recognized in Israel. It's not just the Reform and Conservatives who are concerned!!!!

When push comes to shove, if need be, Conservative and Reform Jews can always find the door back into the Orthodox fold, and the sky will not fall in. With assimilation numbers so high, Reform and Conservative Jews cannot claim that these streams have been a success. They are too dependent on the personalities of community leaders, who always move on.

classisim. among israelis. among jews. it tells you something about the the israel's true democracy.

They are 50% nonJews and extremely ignorant of Judaism. They have failed and sooner or later it will come to the fore

The jewish people consists of jews, jews and jews. For 3000 years conversions were not a problem. Otherwise, King David would be a Moabite and the sons of Josseph Mizrim. Shame on those who are causing problems to non-orthodox jews! Haredim have not contributed to the establishment and building of Israel. On the contrary, they live like parasites in Israel.

It is a scientific fact that a limited gene pool leads to the deteriation of a species. The idea should be to increase the size of the gene pool for survivals sake. Unfortunately, that is not normally an option in the case of mother nature. It is an option in the case of Israels Jews though. The gene pool of the Jewish people is limited enough as it is. You see the results in Israels behavior. Why make matters worse?

This conversion bill would have indeed split the Jewish people based on the will of the Hasidic Taliban.

The original sin was the creation of the institution of the "Chief Rabbi" and the Rabbinate. The next sin (and forgive me if I got the chronology wrong) was to make the Rabbinate solely responsible for marriage & divorce. Now again the politicians are playing into the hands of the Rabbis who are interested only in vesting their own political power at the expense of the State and the Jewish people whose state the State claims to be

Judging by how the Orthodox leadership makes its rulings based on politics and not real halakha, you'll be in for a nasty surprise when this all comes back to bite you. Let it pass, and let those who distance themselves from the Jewish people under the guise of righteousness reap what they sow.

FOR THE SAKE OF THE JEWISH PEOPLE AND ZIONISTS EVERYWHERE I PRAY THAT NETANYAHU KEEPS HIS WORD.

Bla-Bla-Bla and I did not undestand what is all the fuss about. Can anyone explain what is this Conversion Bill supposed to change?

Anything that splits Judaism apart and breaks the link between American Jews and Israelis has got to be a good thing Yhis bill must be carried forward to the Knesset. If Israel is a true democracy.