Lieberman: PA playing ugly 'double game' with Israel

Trying to curb Hamas is not the same than going into Gaza, all guns blazing, massacring children and women. Mr Lieberman, you are talking rubbish, as you usually do.

Your comment is spot on!

"The PA was encouraging action, but not the deliberate killing of civilians. Most decent people understand the difference. Please show me any evidence to the contrary and I`ll forward it to the UN." Right after you show me a war, involving Israel, which never resulted in civilian casualties and Arab accusations of deliberate killings. You are truly clueless if you think that Israel would have been able to conduct such an operation without harming civilians. It's never been able to pull that one off. Let's hear you complain about using civilians for cover, Boston. I dare you.

"All modern armies have a duty to minimize civilian casualties, to discriminately avoid killing civilians as much as possible. Civilians die in all wars, but up 1/2 to 1/3 is obscene." The obscenity is launching attacks from civilian areas, using mosques and schools to house weapons and to fire from, etc. If you think you're such a great strategist, why don't you tell us how to conduct such a campaign.

The PA was encouraging action, but not the deliberate killing of civilians. Most decent people understand the difference. Please show me any evidence to the contrary and I'll forward it to the UN.

You got it wrong. Indiscrimiant killing of civilians is a war crime. Discriminant killing of civilians is a crime against humanity. All modern armies have a duty to minimize civilian casualties, to discriminately avoid killing civilians as much as possible. Civilians die in all wars, but up 1/2 to 1/3 is obscene. So by your estimates, if Pal resistance fighters target IDF and just happen to kill almost as many Israeli civilians, that's okay? Of course not. Pals have no rights, its always a crime to kill Jews and Jews have the right to kill anyone they want in the name of Zionism (even Gentile babies). Fortunately, the rest of the world is not so racist. You people never can understand that the same law applies to Pals and Israelis.

... yet he dose not seem to have got there himself...

1. He supported and voted for the US invasion of Iraq. 2. He calls for a military adventure against Iran at present. 3. What is his loyalty, to Israel or to the US and her citizens?

I thing you are overestimating the success of Operation Cast Lead. Can you remind me who is in charge of Gaza, and who is about to have a major political coup when they free Gilad Shalit for hundreds of prisoners currently held in Israeli prisons? You might also like to remind me about a test HAMAS made of a missile capable of striking Tel Aviv while you are at it. Operation Cast Lead achieved nothing other than improving the poll ratings of Barak and Livni. Hamas are still in power and increasing their military might, Gilad Shalit is still held, and Israel is being villified throughout the world as war criminals.

I can read English, and I can see that Lieberman is now blaming Abbas for Operation Cast Lead. Besides which Israel didn't crush HAMAS which Abbas would have found Palestinian dead in the thousands acceptable if it meant a viable Palestinian State. As it happened Olmert et al didn't want to go house to house in Gaza because it would have affected their poll ratiings when IDF troops started turning up in body bags. Now Abbas although having retired is fighting to ensure that Fatah has credibility within the Palestinian people. In which case he has no option but to pursue the Goldstone Report. Or is that to obvious for you?

me: "You must really hate the Palestinians if you think that resorting to terrorism does them any good" brainless: "They`ve tried terrorism and talking...nothing does them any good." So, through negotiations they were able to form their own government and have control over most of their population areas. Through negotiations, they were offered their own state (which they rejected). And you think that's no good? Grow up.

"You must really hate the Palestinians if you think that resorting to terrorism does them any good" They've tried terrorism and talking...nothing does them any good.

Actually, instead of continuing the blame game, which this current Israeli Foreign Minister cannot rise above, Lieberman is the same low-level do nothing politician that exists in both Israel and amongst Palestinian politicians. What is needed in Israel is a genuine Statesman who has the vision and the intestinal fortitude to say, enough is enough, let's negotiate. Lieberman has already prejudiced talks with his previous comments about the two State solution being dead. Maybe this suits the foreign interests of the Russian Republic, but it hardly represents the interests of the Jewish people and the State of Israel. It is time to petition for Lieberman to resign or be removed.

The truth is Israel did the PA's dirtywork. So if war crimes were committed the PA is guilty as a party to the crime.

Chris, Surely you can understand English. The statement does not say that Israel's actions were due to the PA's requests, what it says is that the PA encouraged the miltary crushing of Hamas when it was convenient, and now when it is convenient otherwise it takes an opposing view.

you know people are getting tired to hear the same song over and over Now why is that? humm maybe their behavior make everything else null?

ISRAEL

As Churchill said , "People will treat you as you treat them. It's no secret..." Dutch

Actually the "indiscriminate" killing of civilians while attacking Hamas is not a crime. The PA will need to prove the "discriminate" targeting of civilians to have a case in the ICC. All nations cause civilian casualties when they attack in urban areas. If Israel could get an impartial court to look at the situation, it could show that the only war crime was the use of human shields by Hamas.

how can you say Israel did not let medical supplied into Gaza during the war?? what other country calls for a 2 hour stop in fighting everyday to allow medical supplies in??? Only Isarel does this!!! What force attacks the hand that feeds them?? Hamas!! Hamas continued to fire rockets at Israel and at the checkpoints while Israel was providing food and medical supplies.

"So exactly how were they to cross between Gaza and Egypt" Thousands of Arabs from Gaza did breach Egypt's Gaza border and cross into Egypt. You know this just as well as you know who forced them back into Gaza - Egyptian troops, not Israel. Do you truly think Egypt forced them back to preserve the peace with Israel? Give me a break. The Brits made Jewish immigration illegal to the nascent reborn Israel, yet when it came to saving the lives of our desperate refugees from Europe and the Arab world - the Jews in Israel gave this task priority over "legalities". Your "violating the Egypt/Israel peace treaty" excuse for the horrific Arab treatment of their own, who they profess to care for, is the most dim-witted guise for clear Israel-hate that you can show. Funny how Egypt allows weapons smuggled into Gaza in "violation of the peace treaty", yet refuses to save their Arab brethren when they most needed it, after 8 years of missiles from poor Hamas. Truly stunning double-standard

"... but as for Ghandi, the reccomendation is ridiculous, not only because Ghandi had a vast country behind him, and it was his philosophy that propelled him... .. but there is no reason on earth why anybody at all, let alone the Pals, should sacrifice themselves for the settlements..." The recommendation is sound because violence has resulted in a net loss for the Palestinians, while good faith negotiations resulted in net gains. The Palestinians don't have to "sacrifice" themselves to obtain greater achievements -- but active non-aggression will help them tremendously. You must really hate the Palestinians if you think that resorting to terrorism does them any good.

"Of course, Abbas wanted Hamas taken out, but he didnt want it done recklessly, wildly and indiscriminately in such a way as to kill hundreds of innocent civilians. " Except, the PA was encouraging Israel during Cast Lead.

"... it was not Abbas who "invited" Judge Goldstone to see devastated Gaza" That's not what the article says. Open your brain.

Saeb Erekat must start to understand that at this point in time 2009 the Palestinians do not have peace with Israel and to analyse where and why has the Palestinian Authority gone so wrong and to stop blaiming Irael it takes two to Tango...On November 22 1996 when Mr Yasir Arafat made it clear and now the Palestinian Authority that the Palestinians are not interested in signing an agreement with Israel and that just like Arafat stated that they would rather declare an independent Palestinian state. However at that point in time Arafat did not believe that Benjamin Netanyahu intended to continue the implementation of the Oslo Agreement after the Hebron redeployment, and therefore prefered to act towards gaining international recognition for the declaration of a Palestinian state. Now here we go again the Palestinian Authority thinks they once again fool the west just like Arafat did..........

Lieberman will be telling us that Israel is actively working towards a two state solution next

If Egypt opens the border crossings between it and Gaza it will be in violation of the Peace treaty between Israel and Egypt. You know this, you hope that myself and others do not as you try to justify Operation Cast Lead and the deaths of 400 children, and accusation of war crimes. Not mentioning that during Cast Lead Israel bombed the area between Egypt and Gaza. So exactly how were they to cross between Gaza and Egypt. When Israel would not even allow medical supplies through the Rafah crossing.

...civilians, believe me. You really cannot compare the situation with police brutality. Even one billion policemen can't do anything against thousands of well-armed people ready to die for their cause, non-grouped, in a foreign country (hence with coming sanctions if it takes long, so it must be fast), and hiding behind these very civilians in a populated area. That's what is a double game. Ours is this of citizens tired of being attacked restlessly, with no one to offer a state to because the object of negociations is the very precondition. How unfair.

... but as for Ghandi, the reccomendation is ridiculous, not only because Ghandi had a vast country behind him, and it was his philosophy that propelled him... ... but there is no reason on earth why anybody at all, let alone the Pals, should sacrifice themselves for the settlements...

You say that Israel committed atrocities. Yes there were mistakes and yes the IDF is currently investigating these but were these deliberate violations of human rights and war crimes? There has never been a war where mistakes do not happen. We only have to look at the many civilian deaths in Afghanistan caused by US drone attacks. Why is Israel any different? I suggest you look at Col Richard Kemp's (British Army) testimony to the UN human rights council. He said "I don?t think there has ever been a time in the history of warfare when any army has made more efforts to reduce civilian casualties and deaths of innocent people than the IDF is doing today in Gaza". In comparison if Abbas had sent his own Fatah brigade in to fight Hamas I promise you he would have been much more brutal.

Y'all still dont get it. Hamas was not the victim of the serious war crimes. Of course, Abbas wanted Hamas taken out, but he didnt want it done recklessly, wildly and indiscriminately in such a way as to kill hundreds of innocent civilians. I support violence against Hamas. If all 1400 Pals killed were Hamas militants, I wouldn't even be bothered by the disproprtionality. That Israel was targeting Hamas does not, however, justify the indiscriminant killing of civilians and deliberate terrorization of all Gazans. Its like police brutality. The police should be combating crime, but they have to do it lawfully without recklessly or intentionally killing innocents. Abbas has a duty to his people to seek justice for IDF war crimes. That is completely separate and apart from battling Hamas. He would be derelict in duty if he did not do both. Encouraging Israel to attack is one thing, condoning criminal means of attack is another.

....Israel has "double-talked" so many times on settlements and 2-state-solution, that she is hardly in the position to point with fingers at the Palestinians in that regard.

Good to see you are rattled enough to be blind to Egypt's Gaza border and the fact that Israel let in Jews from all Arab states while huge Egypt keeps their own Arab brothers rat-trapped in Gaza. Still. Egypt has a border with Gaza - The crying lies of "Israel's Gaza siege and blockade" are sickening. You seem to love it that war is forced on Israel. After all, the country is tiny enough to fit right on the end of your pointy little stick. You can thank Hamas, the PA, Egypt and all the huge Arab world for the carnage in Gaza, if you decide to actually think about it.

The only justification Israel needs at the Hague is self defence. I love all of you bleeding heart liberals who hate Israel. Who would have much rathered the casualty toll was 1400 Israelis. Would you still be outraged if that was the case? Would you be blogging on Arabic newpapers about how ashamed the Palestenians should feel? Another thing when a 15 year old teenager points an AK-47 at you his age in no way prevents him from pulling that trigger. The criminals here are the educators and propogandists in Gaza who ingrain in these kids that martyrdom and killing Israelis is the greatest service they can do for their people. Ghandi challenged and defeated the most powerful empire on earth with non violent action, the Palestenians would do well to follow.

... it was not Abbas who "invited" Judge Goldstone to see devastated Gaza... the devastation was there for all the world to see... it would have been a scandal if Abbas had remained shtum... it was the United Nations that mandated the eminently appropriate Judge Goldstein... they did not need any "encouragement" from Abbas... who in the world was not shocked at the extent of devastation to civilians and civilian property...?!

is right sometimes.

You got the land in Gaza and what happened. Is this a sign what will happen in West Bank?

I think both sides play a double game when it suits them. The Palestinians do it, the gaza war being a case in point. Israel does it frequently too. It's just the way of the Middle East I guess.

i think that u have it wrong your logic doesnt make sense. israel has the land that the arabs want. it is not enough for the arabs that there are 20 arab countries & that the jews have only one. but that unfair situation is what is reality. the jews have always suffered. they will suffer some more. but in the meantime since israel has the land that the arabs want, it seems logical that the arabs have to prove that they are good for it. otherwise they aint going to get it. if the arabs truly want peace they have to earn it; not the other way around.

It is certainly true that the PA wanted Israel to kick Hamas in to touch during cast lead and this was widely reported at the time. It is therefore highly hypocritical of the PA to be then trying to score political capital out of that affair. Fortunately there is ZERO chance of any Israeli ever going in front of the Hague as some of your feeback contributors seem to believe.

He told us to do it. Like to see how that defence stacks up at La Hague, very similar to we were following orders I think. Lieberman needs to get a grip and support calls from within Israel, including from those who have written the IDF's operational procedures and back a full and transparent investigation into the allegations made within the Goldstone Report. It is good to see that Lieberman is rattled enough to blame the Palestinians for Israeli actions which killed 1400 Palestinians including 400 children under the age of 16.

He better remain silent when talking about games. Although I am not sure about the outcome of such efforts to issue a decision by the UN council for the establishment of an independent Palestinian state on the 1967 borders, I think it reveals (for the international community) the true face of Israeli leaders such as Liberman. While he speaks about double games played by Abbas, they call for direct negotiations to end the conflict and then so what? Does ending the conflict means from an israeli perspective, the establishment of a Palestinian state??? If Israelis have true intentions that these fragile negotiations would lead to a Pal state, then fine, but prove it! Otherwise, Libermann and his team are the ones who play games!!!