Lebanon war probe accuses Olmert of 'severe failure,' blasts Halutz, Peretz

Will zionists now concede that they lost the war? I don't know how many posts I have made on this topic alone. This announcement gives some closure for me.

After the Israel soldiers were captured by Hezbollah (which was retaliating for Israel's kidnapping of hundreds of Lebanese from Lebanon and held for decades in some cases),Israel immediately bombarded Lebanon's civilians and civilian infrastructure with terrorist attacks using missiles, jet aircraft and artillery. It did this for three staright days before Hezbollah finally retaliated with rocket attacks. As an Israeli, I blame Israel for the war that it lost. Our soldiers , moreover, cowardly hid and did their build-up in civilian areas in Israel (witness the Katyusha rocket attack on a civilian Israeli farm that killed twelve soldiers). What were soldiers doing on a civilian farm except cowardly using human shields of Israeli civilians. In Haifa, I remember seeing artillery batteries in close proximity to the city and sometimes inside it as well firing what we learned later were cluster bombs day and night. Israel has a lot to feel bad about least of all its war failures.

Although I've only read the so called 'main findings' which can be a translated transcript of the oral presentation of the Winograd report I hail its objectivity! I gather Israël has been provided with a very cunning analysis that opens gates to mass improvements in international diplomacy, of which the 33 day war in 2006 was not a good example. While it may be true that your countries' internal divisions may have been lying at the root of the success of Kadima last elections, it also may be true that weak (or misinformed) leadership might lead to a too big control of some underlying institutions like the IDF, that may hamper your democracy in a grave fashion. I won't dig into corruption matters here. To my opinion the dangers Israël faces from abroad are grossly overestimated, and reactions to it like last summer's (and in Gaza and on the WestBank) won't help to improve relations to pursue a peaceful route to a safe end. It will however facilitate your military and the like. Good luck

It is a very simple fact! Babies are not born hating anyone! They are born with all the love in the world towards anyone who communicates with them. I know this is a simplistic approach to resolving hatred. BUT, only the ones that prosper through hatred and wars are the companies (oil interests, manufacturers of war materials, and most recently the "mercenry" contractors"; all immense contributors to the campaign funds of those that promote war. Simply put, There are those that promote war (the politicians), Those that benefit from war (the industrial/military complex,friends of the runling hiercy), and those that pay for the war (the lives of soldiers, the taxpayers, and those that suffer the lost resourses (lives, material, etc) that support that whatever war. If anyone disagrees with that diseration, I would LOVE to hear a response.

Hey Olmertz, don't feel bad, you are in GOOD company! You have embraced the philosophy of Perle, Feith, Wolfowitz, Libby, Rumsfeld, Cheney,Rice, Kristol, Krauthammer, Fox News, I won't include Sharon's puppet Bush, or Bush's puppet Tony Blair,who essentially said , he will sacrifice how much British Lives or Treasure it takes to appease Bush!. All of the above have done a GREAT job! Hey, even Bush said "MISSION ACCOMPLISHED". But just a little jab to incite insurgents, the arrogance of a dimwitted cowboy, "BRING EM ON". Well its on! War Crimminals personified!!!!

Olmert is comparable to George Bush. They don't know their ass from their face. Second it was such a poor excuse to go into Libnan, to capture two soldiers. They went to get two soldiers but lost hundreds of Israeli lives? Innocent Lebanese killed..... too many to count for. This war should have been called the USELESS POINTLESS WAR. Libnan's economy is screwed up, the government more off track than ever, and ridiculous structural damage everywhere. I think this time fram will go down in notoriety as the era of incompitent numb nut leaders. George Bush, Tony Blair,Olmert and the list could go on. One more thing, where the hell does war get any country and who wins in the end?.....no one. Id love to see Bush and Ohmert sending their kids to fight in the war, but its easy for them to sit back and watch because they have no immediate family there. Now how nasty can you get? They are over their wars but what about the millions of people affected by loss of their children, wife, husband

..how the hell is it any of your business?... My business is the people like YOU (of course)

Please tell us more about your theories of double loyalties. Kath, I am sure, would be fascinated. By the way, just so you should know, Kath never hides opinions about anything or anyone.

are being used to evade resignation. Now Peres, who must be getting senile? says it would sent the wrong signal to the arab world. Right.............staying on would be a far better signal

Arrogance, of course. Any blunder is caused by an Israeli not insisting on *this* or *that*. As if Israel simply has to DEMAND something and it will happen; something didn't happen? Then obviously an Israeli is at fault for not DEMANDING it at the time. Yoram: "The war if anything was a product of the indulgence of past Israeli governments, starting with Ehud Barak`s withdrawal from Lebanon with no safeguards for Israel in place, to exercize deterrence." How about the fact that the IDF *scrambled* out of Lebanon in 2000, Yoram. Couldn't vacate the place quick enough, because it had had enough of the casualties it was taking. No safeguards in place? That's because the IDF was RUNNING AWAY, Yoram. Barak was hardly in a position to DEMAND safeguards when his army was scuttling away like a frightened rabble. Don't blame Barak. Blame the idiot who decided in 1982 that invading Lebanon was a good idea.

The morality of the war is a matter for everyone in the world, but the responsibility of individual politicians for its result is solely a political matter for Israelis. I see a few posters saying that in every other democracy, the opinions or recommendations of the commission would be followed. Some say also that the government would resign. I know of no country in either of those would happen. Governments used to resign over things like this, but not for 50 years. And in my country the appointment of a commission is a method of burying a problem for an interval. "We can't discuss this until we have heard from the commission", says the government. When the commission reports, the government says "Now we must study the report", and goes quiet. We hear no more about it. Saying that other countries are perfect is an invalid way of trying to make Israel look bad by comparison.

petty politics. the greeks named the word "poli-tica" =double face! sorry state of affairs in Israel while the country swims with super-intelligent people, leadership candidates and noble laureates. How to swim among the sharks is one thing -- how to choose the best among such unique people is another tough job for the Israel'is. Give and take a few shots --I would go for the double side of the coin at the same time "share the Prime Minister Job between two candidates : Livni and Peres (with an "s" of course!) Hope it helps.

but should have: Olmert, Peretz, Katsav - from Israel Wolfowitz, Gonsalez - from US Blair - from UK (but he is stepping down anyways) Iraq - Maliki And as we look forward into the next few weeks, the list will only get longer. From the US I'd love to add Cheney and Rice to the list. Prefer for Bush to stay so we have someone to throw punches at for the next 2 years. That'd be proportional punishment alright. Other candidates?

How adare you say "who sais (sic) we lost? Wre you out dancing, or eating sushi while many died? They lost....you were not even there.

..the status quo. He achieved the unachievable. He mobilized a conservative, backward country to love the ideals of being free from oppression civil or religious. Ataturk's concept seemed to be beyond possibility, but much of it was achieved. All of his goals have not been achieved, but compare the progress of Turkey with say, Syria and you will see what a MAN he was. The last time I was in Istanbul, I did business with a man whose wife and mother were covered, but in his place of business he proudly hung the portait of Kemal Ataturk....a man who deserves equal place with Ghandi, Sadat, and Martin Luther King.

"This war was a creation of the Israeli right" - Mark Lincoln Unfortunately, Mark, the war was run by a coalition government including Kadima and Labor. You may consider Kadima to be a "Right" party, but Labor is Left. A poll at the beginning of the war showed that 95% of the Jewish population suppoprted the war! I believe only the far left (Meretz) opposed the war, by and large, as well as few people like myself who did not lose their cool headedness in that rush of emotion. Of course, the war shows the importance of leadership. A wise leadership would not have gone to a war but would have been satisfied with some major strike at military targets that would have settled the account for now. But there were no wise people at the helm. The fact that 95% of Jewish Israelis supported the war should be of concern. It is a development of the view that all one needs is military power. After so many years of Occupation and suppression of the Palestinians, this is the degradation we see. P.S. Any right-wing and force-oriented response would enjoy an immediate public support in Israel, where large segments of the Jewish population have such an orientation: 1. 35% of Jews are Sephardi, by and large with a force-oriented inclination. 2. 20% of Jews are former Soviets. Draw your own conclusions. 3. 8% are religious settlers and their supporters. Over and above these 63% are Ashkenazi right wingers in Likud and Kadima. In the US only 59%supported the invasion of Iraq. In Israel you should expect 69% at least before you initiate a poll.

Peretz must resign immediately. Olmert's resignation is a more complex issue for reasons pointed out by Tosefta. Personally, and I do emphasise the personal here, I would prefer new elections if he resigns. I did read your post, thank you. There was a very angry response from someone else, one of the groupies. There is no point bringing it up right now, except, please never forget your own advice. Regards as always, Cipora

ISRAEL did not fail reptile . You fail to understand that the one who failed was Olmert with his two failures. Olmert the failer is a sort of a peace loving lefty like you who makes money using his position as PM. Peace will come when IDF will crush the terror --pardon me , the freedom fighters who use terror as a tactic justifiably. And not a moment earlier. Israel never fails only losers who come here to rattle the kettle fail to know what they are taliking about. Viper indeed.

This report is not complete without exposing all intelligence on the Iranian takeover of the weak Shi'ite population. ============================== Winograd, b. 1926 must be the most narrowminded bureaucrat of Israel. Sorry, just too old, and out of touch with reality. =============================== The exploitation of the Shi'ites by Iran is a grave war crime. Immoral, and fatal to them. I heard NPR's Daniel Schorr, he had not too much to say about Iran. Recommended reading Ilan Berman Tehran Rising.

According to Israeli law, the Prime Minister must be a member of the Knesset. There can be new elections now (my preference) in which a new set of personalities could be elected, but the Knesset must decide on new elections and is usually reluctant to disband itself, especially with a number of parties expected to lose many seats. Many Knesset members have a personal reason to oppose new elections now. Assuming no new elections now, the Kadima party will determine the new PM. There are a few people in Kadimah interested in the job: Livni, Shetreet, Mofaz, Peres. Mofaz has just been found to had been negligible over 6 years in preparing the IDF. Peres too old and tired. While Leivni shares responsibility for the war, she actually gave sound advice to Olmert to conclude the war within days, but he rejected her. She is popular and I will give her a chance. Shetreet is much more experience and probably tougher. But the problems now are not that tough. They are relatively simple, moving towards peace. P.S. Never mind what I think of Feiglin; he is not in the Knesset and cannot serve as PM.

This does not mean Israel lost the war. It is states how he did not know his military capability. He did not take advise from his advisors. But it is Lebanon that is asking for international help to rebuild. If the Israeli military believed in Allaha more civilians would ave beem killed. It is hard for a culture that loves life to meet in battle a culture that believes in death

You have a PM,ratinings in the single digits who is being investigated,a former PM being investigated,in fact it seems the whole Knesset is being investigated for bribery or fraud in many cases.Does this mean these leaders are rotten to the core and Israelis don't have any choices. Mp point,is with all the critism and investigations going with Israelis politcians, is it now realy fair to say there isn't no peace partner on the Palestinians side,what is the difference,Israeli politicians are being investigated on a weekly basic it seems,while the Hamas has been label and corrupt and terrorist. Isn't it funny how America lends it support to a government that cannot stay in power for more than 18 months,but will not give a unity government a chance.I just can't see any Israelis government capble of peace.These thugs are to busy fattening these own pockets,rather than serving it's citizens.And if these thugs were US,they would all be jailed and out of office

The problem is not that Israel is not seeking peace. Its neighbors refuse the peace that is necessary for the benefit of the Arab countries(including the Palestinian Authority) and Israel.They, unfortuately, continue to believe that continued warfare against the Jewish state will eventually exhaust the will, patience and energy of the people of Israel to the point of agreeing to almost anything, even the peace of the grave. This will never happen, just as a third intifada will destroy any hope for a third Palestinian state.

According to Israeli law, the Prime Minister must be a member of the Knesset. There can be new elections now (my preference) in which a new set of personalities could be elected, but the Knesset must decide on new elections and is usually reluctant to disband itself, especially with a number of parties expected to lose many seats. Many Knesset members have a personal reason to oppose new elections now. Assuming no new elections now, the Kadima party will determine the new PM. There are a few people in Kadimah interested in the job: Livni, Shetreet, Mofaz, Peres. Mofaz has just been found to had been negligible over 6 years in preparing the IDF. Peres too old and tired. While Leivni shares responsibility for the war, she actually gave sound advice to Olmert to conclude the war within days, but he rejected her. She is popular and I will give her a chance. Shetreet is much more experience and probably tougher. But the problems now are not that tough. They are relatively simple, moving towards peace. P.S. Never mind what I think of Feiglin; he is not in the Knesset and cannot serve as PM.

The war if anything was a product of the indulgence of past Israeli governments, starting with Ehud Barak's withdrawal from Lebanon with no safeguards for Israel in place, to exercize deterrence. Perhaps the left's constant criticism of IDF millitary actions made Hezballah feel there would be no severe millitary response for political reasons too. Stick to American politics and attacking Bush Mark, you have more internet sources and in english, anyway.

This just goes to show you that bad leadership can lead to disaster. With bad leadership, Israel may end up killing themselves. Same goes for any country. The unbelievable can happen. It is important who we vote for.

The day when the Arab side will learn self-criticism and the values of democracy is the day when peace will be possible.

Cipora hello But you know they are still dithering and prevaricating.Olmert supposedly is not going to resign,same as Peretz. Now it is time for the people to rise up and ask for a "referendum" ..... P/S Hope you read my post of day ago...

Do you call flying plane into building a crime. How abot them paying medical bills for those that escaped burning building never to be the same again.

chet No we have not forgotten.But it is the job of The Premier to have been prepared.He is the leader of the country,and should have known. What is more he should have chosen a capable Defence Minister whose task should have been assertive and not so dismally inept. Peretz had no experience in that field at all.Also there were many peculiarities with Halutz at the time.Altogether a shambles. I am still very proud of Israel.Where does one find such openly critical panel like the "Vinograd Report"democratically and openly expressed in any Middle Eastern countries. We'll leave it at that for now,and see after the Vinograd Report has been completed. the outcome of this

.. that when the true history of this war is written it will be found that the Winograd commission had no choice but to find that Olmert and co. acts hastily and without planning, precisely because Olmert and co. had to assert that in front of the commissioner. To do otherwise would implicate Bush's role in urging and planning with the Israelis to smite Lebanon months before the shooting actually started. You really aren't going to know more until you see the actual transcripts of the testimony made to this commission - IF that is ever released.

Nice. I'll protest with her! :)

I think there has been a misunderstanding. The Joe I sent the post to,was not you. Don't flatter yourself...

if there is a 3rd war would you want the same PM and Defense Minister?

Gee Joe I would think you had more important things to do than read Haaretz and critize Zion as you like to call the State of Israel. Look at the miserable state of affairs in Ramallah...in all of these years your people have not been able to raise themselves out of that dump. You could have had a country years ago but we all know the reason this never happened. The thought of having a country while Israel is still in existence, is impossible to bear. So you spite yourselves and suffer. So clever of you. Personally I hope Olmert leaves and is replaced by a strong Prime Minister that will strike fear in the hearts of all islamo facists...Just remember one thing Joe...Israel is here to stay...take it or leave the area.

AND NOTHING TO DO WITH YOUR LOT. I AM SURPRISE TO SEE THAT HAARETZ IS ALLOWING YOUR LOT TO COME AND SPEW VENOMOUS DIATRIBES. GO AND LOOK INTO YOUR FILTHY BACKYARDS AND SORT OUT YOUR MESS WITH THE TERRORIST NASRALLAH.HOW DARE YOU CRITISIZE ISRAEL?HOW DARE YOU!!If you think your nastirallah won the war,I suggest you consult with a pshychiatrist We are now in the process of understanding the failure of our government,and things will change.We live in a democracy,unlike you people who have to toe the line and do as you are told The fact this is being discussed with due process and in the open proves Israel's free speech and its freedom. Go and cry the way Siniora had,and weep with your shame.You absolutely have nothing to be proud of,that is a fact.............

"They seem to blame each other,at the same time not aknowledging,or accepting blame." That's what politicians do, and the fact Palestinian politicians engage in the blame game is no reason to condemn an entire population. I don't hear the Bush administration taking any blame for anything, or hear Olmert and his junta cabinet admit any responsibility for anything, that's what politicians do. The onus is on Israel to end the occupation and withdraw to 67 lines. It's not rocket science. If having bad politicians warrants a military occupation, no nation is safe. Israel needs to get out, period!

far as I know been no more rockets since the war with hezzollah.Hezzollah Not at the boarder any more. Arent these signs of victory rather than defeat?

What's worse than the problems of the Jewish galut? The American ghettos they build for themselves in Jerusalem, the "gap year"yeshivas where American kids come out after one or two years and still can't speak a word of Hebrew. Even better, don't have a clue what's going on in Israel and I think could care less. This is what these yeshivas call their "Israel program". Shame on them, rabbis and all!

I think there are a lot of parallels between the Lebanon War and the US-lead invasion of Iraq. They were both ill-conceived and lacked achievable goals, a clear standard of victory, and a dignified exit strategy. I believe Olmert is blameworthy in those failings, however, I think he does deserve some credit for realizing and admitting his mistake relatively quickly. Israel's interests suffered far less than they would have if the Lebanon War had been perpetuated, in the way that the Iraq War has done so much harm to the US in the years it has dragged on (in terms of wasted lives and resources and erosion of world standing). If US leaders had admitted their mistake sooner then far less harm would have been done. So yeah I think Olmert deserves some respect in that sense...

Correct me if I'm wrong, but wasn't there an admission several months ago that the actual war preparations for the aggression against Lebanon began in March? If that's the case why should Olmert (hateful deceptive gasbag that he is) be shouldering so much blame for the poor planning and result of the aggression?

Unfortunately, Shuki (#108) is correct. Haaretz English version is not a good place to learn about ISraeli society. Reading other sites suggests that ISrael is not so divided. Most ISraelis seem to clearly think that the problem was NOT that Olmert started a war without first trying to negotiate, but rather that Olmert's problem is that he and his "Arab Loving Ministers" were too soft in the war, did not send in enough soldiers or hit Lebanon with enought force, and worst of all, that he actually listened to the world and stopped the war when he did. Looks like it is a few short months until Natanyahu is at the helm again. Shuki, I hope I am wrong...

Twice now the Israeli right has impetuously engaged the nation in disastrous war in Lebanon. Wars is a serious thing. One's opponents should never be imagined as doing only what you want. Stuff happens. This is why any war that is not absolutely necessary should be approached with great caution and profound thought. It is clear that the "three stooges", Olmert, Peretz and Halutz showed no caution or thought. They have served their nation negligently. Olmert and Peretz can no longer be described as serving their nation at all. They are just serving themselves.

"They seem to blame each other,at the same time not aknowledging,or accepting blame." That's what politicians do, and the fact Palestinian politicians engage in the blame game is no reason to condemn an entire population. I don't hear the Bush administration taking any blame for anything, or hear Olmert and his junta cabinet admit any responsibility for anything, that's what politicians do. The onus is on Israel to end the occupation and withdraw to 67 lines. It's not rocket science. If having bad politicians warrants a military occupation, no nation is safe. Israel needs to get out, period!

If Olmert @Co. refuse to resign, then there remains no other choice than what I would call, "THE TURKISH OPTION." To save Israel from almost certain destruction, a military non-violent putsch is the only way. This will involve a very brief suspension of the democratic process, which can be re-installed once competent leaders are at the helm--leaders with the means and the WILL to save Israel by once and for all, pulverizing its enemies--NO MATTER WHAT THE BBC, the Eurabian MSM and the American MSM say about it.

Toronto's F Who on earth is talking about the terrorist Nastirallah? stupid alegory. When you mentioned Ataturk that was something else.But,even if he was still around,I wonder if he would have had the power to subdue the Islamists.In his country he certainly would have.But wonder if he would have been able to apply his wisdom to the Arabs.Judging from what I read about him,he would have alliented the lot of them. One way or another,this is worldwide problem.To find an upright,decent,capable man who would be free from cronyism,and prove a to guide his/her country forward. Quite a task,and so difficult to find......

No country, especially one at permanent risk of war, can function with an incompetent defense minister. While Olmert will eventually have to be replaced, Peretz must go immediately. He should be replaced with someone who has deep experience with strategic thinking.

Wars in AFGANISTAN :- The Russians lost to the Talibans, now NATO is finding it hard to win against them too.In fact they are gradually coming back to take over what they lost. War in IRAQ :- it was suppose to be a piece of cake to invade the country, where soldiers would be made welcome with flowers, and Pres.Bush quickly proclaimed "Mission ACCOMPLISHED" but NOW ths is the REALITY, Insurgents are better trained and fight hard if not harder. War in LEBANON:- The Hizb. of Nasrulla is not the same , as the weak arab soldiers of the past, they too have learnt the art of warfare even though they do not possess the same type of sofisticated weaponry as Israel. I, myself believe that PM Olmert & his government did their best in this DRAW MATCH(nobody wins).The Losers= DEATH/DESTRUTIONS. PM Olmert, should correct his mistakes by SEEKING PEACE with Israel's arab Neighbors.

Tosefta Dan Meridor yes! Livni?No!She has been one of the three "Monkeys"Olmert,Peretz,and Livni. Please Tosefta,your choice of Livni should never come to pass. Perhaps in years to come,and she has obtained more experience yes,now?absolutely not. By the way,what about Moshe Feiglin for P.M? or would you disapprove because he belongs in the right of the party? Otherwise who else is there to replace Olmert?....................

Do not confuse this with winning or loosing. Next time under a differnt leadership israel will not make the same mistakes, and likely they will completely pulverize you instead of doing it half-A##ed. ISrael had teh guts to criticize itself, that is a sign of strength. Dont see Hezzie with an open inquiry any time soon. oops.

The terrorists of Hizbollah would have us believe that they in fact had won a victory against the IDF. That, of course, is sheer propaganda. Neither Hizbollah, nor the rest of the world, should confuse Israeli democracy at work with a defeat for Israel. Hizbollah, the terrorists are not required to submit reports, work for peace, allow unfettered journalistic inquiries, including during war, answer to their people, heed the international community, act as responsible agents, or take into account the needs of ordinary citizens in Lebanon. Whereas in Israel there will be free democratic elections, whether today or tomorrow, Hizbollah will always, under all circumstances, live by the sword and die by the sword.

So,you naively decide to make Gideon Levy Israel' prophet.A biased far lefty journalist and you attach your thoughts by thi journalist Grow up and think seriously. You then blame the population too?Odd that. Whether they had accepted the war,or not, the onus falls on the P.M,the Defence Minister one of the most important job especially while trying to prpsecute a war!He failed miserably. In addition the high echelons of the IDF&IAF. Since security comes first,why are you changing the subject and putting out first in "education" in this instance?"education" Naturally,education is a very important factor it all needs to be "UPGRADED"!!! If I may add,like someone here said:To all the "naysayers" concidering how the IDF and IAF were treated by the Israeli establishment they still did a valient job,and if Nastirallah thinks he won the war,he can think again,the coward who is still in hiding. Shame to some of you,.

tic..tic Olmert it's time to go. Tic..tic Bibi it's time to come back.

Privatize Israel, sell it to an enterprising businessman - Arabs are welcome - who will turn it into a theme park. All Israeli citizens will become employees and receive good wages and benefits.

From the total amount of postings I read I did not get any feeling that people were willing to back up Olmert. Only 1 posting asking "well who else is out there to take over" That is bad. How can he stay on? How can the system allow him to stay on ??

You wrote "Whereas the politicians in Lebanon are counting their lucky stars for everyday they wake up! Thats how it should be for scummy politicians." Although corrupt politicians should be tried and thrown in jail, no civilized human or country for that matter should have policians fearing for their lives. All you did was prove the instability of your government and your country. Most Americans hate Bush but we are not trying to kill em either.

I think it's quite clear militarily Israel has not been at it's best in many years. To oust an incompetent leader is vital. But it is stupid to oust every leader after every failure. Israel must give it's leaders time to learn from mistakes, not just throw them out and instate another false promise leader that fails as miserably repeating the mistakes of the past. I think that IF olmert is capable of learning, he should remain. If not he should go. I don't think failures by definition mean someone should be ousted because inexperience is always failure and we keep kicking people out as they build experience. C'mon people!

Joe They seem to blame each other,at the same time not aknowledging,or accepting blame. A most ridiculous state of affairs. When you say the lot will have to be replaced who is honest,who is there among the persons Israelcan put it's trust?Any ideas??Yes,I know you said the P.M has to change.What about the others??

Israel is in greater danger than at any time since the War of Independence. Last summer's Lebanon War left its enemies realising that the Israeli Army was not invincible. As an ex-foreign volunteer in Zahal I was appalled by the negligent way in which the citizen army was treated. Israel should re-equip, train and support its army as a number one priority, NOW, NOT SOME TIME IN THE FUTURE!!! If not, the survival of the state is at risk. Also the arrogant politicians who organised this terrible national failure should all resign.NOW!!

accomplished it's goal in weakening IDF in a war of attrition. It shows how perpetual war cannot be sustained but don't tell that to your hadcore Zionists. The lesson should be Israel needs to seek peace and deal with Palestinian issue in a fair and just way. It's silly to suggest there is any surprise the IDF entered the war weak and unprepared. They have been busy occupying 3.5 million natives and involved in squashing liberation resistance in the occupied territories for decades. It's amusing to read how many believe getting more tanks, different leadership in Tel-Aviv, things will be any different. If third intifada breaks out, another 5 years of hell, then it seems to me the more things change here, the more they stay the same. Can Israel offer it's people something better than perpetual war? It doesn't look that way and the people are being played like a cheap violen by their leaders. Just bring in the third act, usher in Netanyahoo and it's deja vue all over again.

It is well known to evry Lebanese that this war was pre-planned before and Olmart and his crew were suppsoed to attack on september of 2006. However, as soon as hizbollah attack took place, Dick Cheny and Bush ordered Olmart immediatly to take the opportunity and wave his aggression against the Lebanese people. it is essential for everyone to realize this war failed big time because justice was served. This war was an act of revenge by USA/Isreal against the Shia of Lebanon for supporting Hizbollah. More than 500,000 cluster bombs were spread over south Lebanon. 30,000 residential units were destroyed in Beirut south suburb. Israel used weapon that contain depleted uranium and other types of weappons frobiddden to use under international laws.

This Olmert clown was inept and incompetent from day one. Along with his other two side-kicks - Livini and Peretz - they have ignorantly put Israel in peril. Much like his alcoholic friend George "I am plain stupid" Bush, Israel has followed US policy into a downward spiral. Bush used Israel as his pawn and the pawns played into Bush's hand. Both have lost all and any worldwide credibility they had - and it wasn't much to begin with. Israel needs an Ahmadinejad-type personality to survive. They are considered weak and vulnerable. Short of using nuclear weapons to continue to exist - which they won't - or returning hundreds of prisoners for one soldier - Israel's survival is in peril. I thought Israelis were smarter than what they've exhibited through Olmert.

'Israel' brought the war to itself. You cant invade life with death for your own death will be but a euphamism of what you shall reep. Rome wan't built in a day but it came to the ground in less thann 33. History may be of some help to open your eyes.

Lebanon was the victim. It was attacked, destroyed and occupied. Do not mix up. And do you remember how many Lebanese civilian victims ?

and this preliminary report tells them to quit and if they don't , then the final report around August (1*) will be harsher to the point to force them to quit , So these fools headed by DM Peretz , PM and his complices promise to correct the mistakes , as we all know they all promise and do nothin' , they anyway can't do anythin' for they have already commited the State to collective suicide thru US 2003 Road Map blunder , thru 2002 Saudia plot , thru 2005 Gaza disengagement mess , thru 1993 Oslo accords "Monumental Deceit" , The next Gov't with the next PM will just be a continuation of these desasters , In other words train yourself to say Jesus or allah is great and wait for the next jihad russian roulette , (1*) if by end of August is the final report means Israel will meanwhile keep on with its desastrous containment policy , meanin' same as Sharon didn't prevent the arming of Hezbollah after Israel withdrawal from Lebanon in 2000 ( according to Akiva Eldar in preventin' Leb War 3) , so is now , despite Israel military intelligence repeated warnings , Israel doin' nothin' with the arming of Hamas in Gaza , and again the open arming of Hezbollah , Implyin' no Summer war , no Gaza invasion , all DM Peretz and Olmert threats statements are just BS talks , Olmert is anyway imposing against IDF a restrainment policy , isn't he Akiva Eldar has surely in his drawer a report about preventin' Gaza war 2 , his report about preventin' next Leb war is already posted , online

When you theow them out, remember, as you associate so you become. Do Not Doom the new people with the association to the current USA leaders.

All the IDF knows is to kill, kill, kill, and unfortunately in Lebanon kill mostly civilians. This reminds us of the Red Army methods. However, wars now are asymmetrical, and WW II methods, even improved with more technology, are not very productive - except against infrastructures and civilians.

to brant from South Carolina U think what you?re saying is a fact well u don?t have a clue of what?s going on we have the missiles and we never used it and nasrallah told the Israelis u will regret not releasing all the prisoners and not withdrawing from shebaa farms and they did BIG TIME

Dont you think there should be a Winograd commission in the USA for the war in Iraq ? If not, is the USA a democracy ? And do you think George W. Bush would resign in such a case ?

Lerbanon used to be a democracy and it seems that it still is, despite Israeli invasion and occupation.

Olmert, you have been weighed in the balance and found wanting. Time to go. Shame you waited for Winograd to tell you. The Israeli public told you last August.

I agree with virtually all of your post, but I don't see how Nisrallah will really help your very divided country. If only a great, charismatic, secular leader could come forth and take away power and influence from ALL of the religious...Christian, Muslim and Druze....what a wonderful country you would have. The Lebanese are very intelligent, educated and hard working people. They have a large and caring diaspora, and huge sympathy around the world. You could have a country to equal Israel if only you would stop hating each other.

Never accept responsibility, always portray self-interest and indifference as principle. But most of all...never accept responsibility. Always try to diffuse the blame and spin it into another opportunity to continue what you are doing. And, of course, never accept responsibility.

Firstly let me say I think they should all go home, but you are all so full of it, who is going to look after the shop when these guys have gone? and for heavens sake dont tell me Natanyahu

With all due respect, David, judging Israeli society based on English-language Haaretz talkback forums comprised of people who for the most part have no vote in the sovereign state of Israel is ill-advised.

Always the enlightend opinion with the perfet language. WOW the story about your car (probabaly an Mreg escort).... brilliant!! If there were more pals like you Israel would be history.

Reading what was released of the Winograd report, one remembers what Nassrallah said on the first or second day of the war. He said that the israeli people will come to realize how in-experienced his leaders are. He specifically named Olmert, Halutz, and Peretz. Nassrallh also stated that the israeli people will come to realize how incompetent their leaders are. At the end of the war Nassrallah said in an interview that the victory of Hizbollah has strategic ramifications on israel and its existence. Considering that Nassrallah has been accurate all along, I guess we just have to wait and see what the next 15 to 20 years. I think smart israelis would start considering real peace with the real Arabs, those that are free to make their own decisions. Or start looking for a good deal on a home somewhere in Europe, Russia, or ....

Hezbollah indeed won in two areas; one was hitting Israeli civilians with short range missiles and the other one was successfully hiding inside Lebanese civilian population to avoid reprisals. Everywhere else your extolled Nasrallah lost big time. Even given all the problems the Israeli army experienced, they still dominated every battlefield and every engagement while being wrapped in political and moral restrains of an enlightened society. Nasrallah and his admirers prefer sweet lies to bitter truth, this is very typical of the modern Arab world, do not be wondering why they are moving nowhere. Israel prefers truth and will fix the problems by the next round, which will come given cocky attitude Hezb and Co worked themselves into. Next time there will be proper application of good ole artillery barrages to clear up the way for assaults, hundreds of UAVs searching for Katyusha crews, bunker busters for Nasrallah, and a hard awakening for Leb people who are prone to believing in lies.

Although Olmert and the imbecile Peretz arrogantly refuse to resign, and a vote of no-confidence may not be in the immediate future, this govermnment is finished. Here's why -- their counterparts in the US, EU, Asia and even the Arab world all know that none of them could survive single digit numbers in the polls and a devastating report like the Winograd conclusions. With Peretz a virtual laughing stock among world defense ministers, and on the way out, Olmert will simply not be taken seriously by world leaders who have other things to do besides engage him in pointless talks that can go nowhere, because of his weakness and his obviously sealed fate. Olmert's rule is over. It is just a matter of time until the corpse starts to smell so bad that it is finally disposed of. It would be nice if patriotic MKs who recognize the need for new leadership would lubricate Olmerts exit before his incompetence creates yet another foreign crisis, as Israel's enemies take advantage of him.

If the President won't resign over a serious rape accusation, why should a bent Prime Minister resign over something as trivial as gross incompetence?

i didnt understand your comment.... what does islamists have to do with PM-ing?

i dont know... its a hard question. on the one hand, i like to see an idiot enemy PM in power, broken down, weak, full of himself, in a gov't divided amongst itself. on the other hand, it means a dangerous man in power, for both israelis and pals, rash, probably thinking of an honor-returning second war to plunge the middle east in further chaos... i dont know... its a hard call

Is Ron Arad back? My dear friend, you live in a paradise of your own. The poor man (Arad) has not been seen for more than 20 years.You should bless the Israelis for protecting you from Syrians and Iranians or else you would not be allowed to use a computer even invented by Jews!

As I say often, Israel is the only country on Earth that constantly releases anti-Israel content for the world to gather up and exaggerate. Palestinians in 60 years admit no mistakes. Israel, in suicidal fashion from a public relations standpoint, admits mistakes every week. And you wonder why the world finds it easy to be anti-Israel? Yes, it's partially anti-semitism but it's also due to the retarded morons who handle PR for Israel. This story is now front page on BBC. Why does Israel shoot itself in the foot like this? STOP CREATING "WE ARE ISRAEL AND LOOK AT WHAT WE MESSED UP THIS WEEK" STORIES FOR THE WORLD TO SOAK IN. HIRE PR FIRMS AND SHUT UP ABOUT YOUR ERRORS, IDIOTS.

In a poll right after the findings apparently 69% of Israelis surveyed agreed with the commission in that Olmert did a bad job.Now heres the kicker.I bet half the 69% said that he went in too hard,the other half probably said he went in too soft.Wait a minute,it was an odd number.Oh yes that odd one probably agrees with me that Olmert did a lousy job but there was no good job to do.It was a difficult situation in every case.

oust !! sham on them . mofaz you must take the control now for us for jews for israel for the army. don't hesitate the situation is difficult. you should do the job asap. israel is on danger.please please please.

you mean to tell me, hizbollah DESTROYED itself, shooting itself in the foot, knowing that the sunni lebanese gov't hates their guts and never EVER give them financial aid, so they could rebuild??? i say the answer is d. you're an idiot. again, when a structured army attacks a MOVEMENT, and by its own admittance, failed, then i say technically, the MOVEMENT won. once again, my answer is d. you're an idiot. did "I" pass?

The answer is not for Mr Olmert to go for reasons associated with the outcome of the recent war - that would in itself inflict more on Israel than could be bearable in all the circumstances of this instance; it is the belief and notion that all its Arab neighbours could be subdued endlessly (by speedy resort to violence and exclusive domineering power) that should Go. The lessons learnt in this war is not that Israel is lagging and/or less disciplined than ever before, it really is that its opponents (equally committed to their own cause) had all the reasons and intent to catch up. Rocketry and less sophisticated delivery means has proven beyond conjecture that mayhem and destruction is not that unachievable. What must now come in is the view and conviction of mutual acknowledgment and just compromise. Conquering others hearts and souls needs not military or other such enforcement powers - it merely requires acknowledgment of their genuine aspirations and true rights. It is high time that the distinction between Jewry and its neighbours is better evaluated and attended. I await!

before you start blabbering to hide your anger at israel's "defeat"? in lebanon '06, take a step back, and recall: a. israel is OCCUPYING parts of sothern lebanon b. israel dropped worldwide banned bombs c. israel MURDERED civilians, and was bombing anything that moved d. Hizbollah, agree or not, was defending its land. israel would do the same thing IF ATTACKED. fighting from your land is different that invading someone else's... vietnam, korea, ww2 etc. e. israel had FAR GREATER power than a movement... hence, it has greater responsibility towards RESTRAINT. f. hizbollah fought from around civilians... israel BOMBED them facts speak strongly....

I know it is very important to your ego to believe that Nasrallah "won". If causing the deaths of so many Lebanese is winning; then congratulations. I have already agreed that Israeli performance was poor but they have lost none of their territory and very, very few of their people; they have no UN soldiers watching over them and they have the courage to critcize themselves. Hizb Allah wildly launched so many tens of thousands of rockets at Israeli civilians, who knows if any were from Dahiyeh and, yes, I know, Dahiyeh suffered terrible loss of life and insfrastructure from Israeli bombs; ALL OF IT AFTER YOUR STUPID RESISTANCE STARTED THIS. Dahiyeh would never have happened if the initial murders and kidnaps and rockets had not. There was no Israeli retaliation until the second day of rockets. Revere your resistance as you wish, Wissam. All your other geopolitical comments are opinion. I'm sure the US doesn't think Israel did a very good job but they aren;t abandoning them.

Even Nixon had enough class to resign. Now this criminal--Ohlmert--negotiates with the left to give what's left of Israel away...Golan, Gaza, West Bank, in an effort to "buy" support from the left. You really think he can "buy" 80+% support in return for total capitualtion? Bring on Bebe or anyone else willing to nuke the opposition to save Israel from the evil of Arab, etc., evil. Samual

Wow. You're blaming the IDF? You can't possibly have a clue. Olmert has GOT to go.

It is not merely lack of experience and hubris (not asking for experts' advice) that failed Olmert. He has no sense of statesmanship, and this is something that cannot be repaired. At the start of the war, Olmert declared 3 UNATTAINABLE goals: 1. Dismantle Hizballah; 2. Return the captive soldiers; 3. No more UNIFIL in South Lebanon. None of these happened. To dismantle Hizballah and/or return the soldiers would have taken the invasion and capture of much of Lebanon. Not feasible. Therefore, goal 3 was also unattainable. And anybody who goes to war with unattainable goals has not the beginning of talent in this area. Olmert should resign, or be fired by his party. Give Livni a chance. She can bring in Dan Meridor as foreign minister. The man has national security expertise and is interested in peace talks. And Labor will contribute a good Defense Minister after the party elections next month. The government will look very different.

He's already at 8 percent approval. How long will it take to toss this loser out on his ass? Oh...yeah...who will take his place. Where IS the future leadership of Israel? But, then again, where is the future leadership of America...or Germany...or France...or. Where did the leaders of the past go. But, one thing for sure, this loser, Olmert, is the worst of the worst. Bring on Bebe. Jack

Now who's the next PM who'll better mess with the settlers , settlements , zionist State , citizenry , IDF , Who's the next PM who'll be the next Pharaoh , Haman , Amalek or the arameic Lavan , Who's the next PM who'll better please UBL's Islam politics , Who's the next PM who'll say next year in Jerusalem when he in fact means next year in Mecca, Such agenda will be flagrant if a caliphated leftist is elected , so leftists step aside,

Resistance to occupation Ilya, cross boarder raids, overflights, and crossing Lebanese waters, resistance to that. The "Israelis" are the ones that demolished our houses and kill our people, not Hezbollah. Hezbollah killed their people and demolished their tanks, and their hellicopters after the open war decission from the idiot Olmert and his broker halutz,We just wanted our detainese back, some of them have been in "israel" for 29 years, which means idirectly that they would never free them by themselves, therefore action had to be taken, and Mr. Nasrallah promised us that long time ago and now he fulfilled his promise, and we knew it was comming so did the "Israelis",Nasrallah talkes about it openly. would you like to change your answers, you still have time to pass.

it speaks for itself.

How can the man who blames not himself but the Attorney General and State Comptroller for investigations into his graft and croneyism, and who uptil yesterday was insisting we won the war, have the hutzpah to thank the Winograd committee for pointing out the errors in his leadership and yet not feel the obligation to stand down ....Olmert is a lying, cheating, shameless excuse for a man, let alone a leader!

left attacks Olmert and co. for responding harshly for the abduction of soldiers. righters claim that he was too liberal in his response. I think that anybody in his place would have reacted in a similar manner. Your thoughts...

what the heck do you care about Israel, you come from the FAR EAST NOT THE MIDDLE EAST, worry about Sri LaNKA, CHINA worry about the TSUNAMIS AND EARTHQUAKES, how the hell is it any of your business?

This talkback forum is a sad but fascinating look at the incredible divisions in Israeli society. Pretty much everyone thinks that Olmert should go, but for completely different reasons. And from reading the responses, people disagree so much they don't even realize they are disagreeing! Half of you think that he was too weak in the war, did not deploy enough forces, and stopped just because the UN told him to. The other half think he reacted too aggresively, launched a pointless war, and needlessly killed 1000 Lebanese, not to mention dozens of Israelis. For the record, this last group appears to be more in tune with the report. Winograd seems to be attacking Olmert from the Left, suggesting that he should have continued diplomatic tracks before launching the war.

"Israel" not only lost "few" people, "Israel" has lost a very important thing that u dont want2admit because of arrogance which is understandable, it lost the image infront of millions of people and especially the people they claim2protect, it lost the illusion they had with the palestinians, especially if ur realising that the palestinians r learning fast from Hezbollah, and their progress is very close2what we had.The second important thing it lost was the American trust for them2achieve the goals that they were told2do, and this thing will eventually stop the baby sitting, "israel" has no importance if it cant fulfill its obligations, and of coarse not getting rid of Hezbollah.Thats the Loss Brant. Come on, u have2trust Nasrallah, he was clear2the "Israelis" he told them from the begining of the war what they had4a prime minister, minister of war and the stock broker Halutz, and he was also clear that they will fail. were the rockets sent from Dahiyeh Brant? if you know where it is?

Olmert gave you the war you wanted, wasn't his fault that Israelis forgot how to fight. You got badly beaten and that is the problem, take it up with the IDF.

I hear firing missiles in to other countries and abducting people to use as hostages is a wonderfully popular past time with Civilians in New York. Try telling the police that arresting you would be a war crime.

How come, why is the IDF such a poor fighting force. Now there aretwo questions that should be addressed. Dropping bombs on civilians is still Israels first and foremost weapon, as for the skills of the soldiers on the ground....well, well, well. No to impressive.

This would have required displacing the various civilians who were firing the missiles. So no one stopped the missiles. Dripping with Sarcasm, those should never have been confused with civilians. Southern Lebanon should be a Ghost Town today. The old Mk III Merkavas should not have been used so extensively and certainly not without mine rollers or other mine sweeping equipment included. Everyone knew these tanks were coming. Everyone knew they were planting bombs in advance. Everyone but the "Defense Minister"? Everyone but the Defense Minister and Everyone Else at the top of the ladder that Olmert and Peretz should have been keeping an eye on.

down with nations!

too many civilians dies from being bombed from the air if there is another war they will have to use ground forces

Israeli's shouldn't be so hard on themselves - the rest of the World can do that for them. Israeli's have a lot to be proud of - and we (in the rest of the World) should thank them for taking a stand against radical Islam.

I have always thought highly of Israel's handling of adverse conditions, perhaps the United States and Israel are connected too closely now. It appears that George W. Bush and PM Olmert are connected at the hip!

The IDF Chief of Staff at that time was from the Air Force, not an infantry division...and the Defense Minister was basically dovish to begin with, and was ill-prepared for such an escalation on what was a relatively quiet northern border. Why is this even a surprise?

Sounds like the main governmental ministers were out of their depth and the IDF military command were not up to the job of having a military prepared for all sorts of eventualities. Too much attention focussed on the wrong things, e.g. stock market, public profile, and knee jerk strategy. They've got to learn from their mistakes

this criminaly insane,pathetic little man does not have the decency to do the right thing has absolutely no self respect,for himself or his country citizens of israel,rise up as one man,and get rid of this disater,or you will lose your beatifull g-d given country get rid of him NOW BEFORE ITS TOO LATE

Great writing my friend. You have a gift. I am ashamed to say that I am still laughing, even though what you say is so sadly true.

How much money isn't alotted to the military, billions each year, but when all the practise they get is to target shoot women and children in the territories, one can just imagine how surprised the soldiers were when the stood face to face with Hizbollah fighters ready to defend their homes. Let's hope the palestinians learned a lot from the Israeli dabacle in Lebanon.

If this was truly a democratic country which was responsible and accountable to the electorate Peretz, Livni and Olmert would resign immediately and call for new elections.

Two Schmucks that have brought themselves and their countries huge amounts of shame.

please try to comprehend what you read. my message ment to be tongue-in-cheek. by the way are you an American in N.Y. or just a visitor or maybe an illegal alian, from your post you sound like you are happy that all is lost in Iraq? i may be wrong but that's what your message implies.

Sounds like a very "kind" report and politically correct in every shape and form. Could it be that the members are afraid that Bibi could have benefitted from a harsher judgement?? A bunch of amatuers wrecked havoc on the civilian population of the Cedar and dropped million of cluster bombs on children instead of taking on the Hezbollah. When to many Latte drinking "metrosexualls" to make up an army, Israel can always rely on the assassines in blue to slaughter children. Now THAT should have been in the report.

There could be nothing more heartbreaking to the families of our fallen to know that their loved ones died needlessly at the hands of the incompetents. If the people do not push out this/these now "certified" incompetent/s, then there is no hope for us. Elections immediately.

If Mr.Olmert had been a CEO of an Company listed on the Stock Exchange,he would have forced to resign.he would have bankrupt the company.Therefore he should resign due to his INCAPACITY. Does he think he is in Italy, where politicians sits on power for 80 years nevertheless the fail everything they do?

Israel has no other choice but to go to war with Lebanon. It was emergency and ergent to go to war with Lebanon because its happend suddenly when Hizbullah abducted the 2 IDF soldiers, do you want the Israeli government to wait and plan and think of what to do before going to war ehh????? If someone stole my car, DO YOU WANT ME TO THINK OR PLAN OF TO DO?????? I will act as quick as possible and who knows, I may find it next day or catch the theif. If I didn't act quickly then the thief will be happy and may do it again.

The whole govt would resign and call new elections, but the lingering soviet style political culture in the israeli governmental system means these blow hards will stay on as long as possible.Even the President who has been charged with rape hasnt resigned, this is egotism at its most revolting level.Israel needs to do alot of work on itself and this can only really begin once she has dumped the failed ME.

One must stress that almost everyone in Israel supported the war in its early days. Thus, people now screaming Olmert you loser etc. should ask themself if the would had acted much diferently! What I found really trobeling in these days was the strong war enthusiasm everywhere in Israel. I think that it should be seen and addressed as a soiciological problem. Anyway: Olmert is a finished (maybe not tommorow,but until summer). But what comes next? Someone better or even worse?

"A democracy cannot exist as a permanent form of government. It can only exist until the voters discover that they can vote themselves largesse [benefits] from the public treasury. From that moment on, the majority always votes for the candidates promising the most benefits from the public treasury with the result that a democracy always collapses over loose fiscal policy, always followed by a dictatorship." (author unknown) It's sad how Israel's elections are looking more like American elections -- heavy on TV sound bites and light on important issues. Voters in both nations must wake up and take things seriously. We have real enemies who really want to kill all of us. Really, what could possibly be more important than stopping them? All else pales in comparison. Anyone we elect should be a firm supporter of our military and assemble a strong team to handle terrorism with unwaivering resolve and guided by wise counsel. Clinton and Olmert did not and look what we got.

Before you kick asses ,,,go save your ass from being repeatadly kicked in IRAQ.

In Lebanon there is no report needed, the people were on the streets demanding change from day one after the war ended. In Israel you will be lucky if even Peretz resigns after this. They will say "ok ok, we have made mistakes, but nothing that hasnt been done before, by Meir, Sharon, Mofaz, Dayan and so we will learn and Israel must stand in the face of Palestinian Terror, GOD save G.W.Bush and death to the "Axle of Elvis", Iran. They will then kill some more Pals, shoot some more missiles, have a meeting with Bush and throw money at Yesha. Israel will then forget about the 2 soldiers in Lebanon after Shalit is brought home as they did with Arad. The Israeli govt. faild Arad. READ HIS LETTER. And Olmert and Peretz can look foward to a healthy retirement somewhere in Herzliya after they get fed up with corruption and killing. Whereas the politicians in Lebanon are counting their lucky stars for everyday they wake up! Thats how it should be for scummy politicians.

It is too bad this wasn't just a film--a "B" movie. No, Israel's failure in Lebanon was real. Did we really need a committee report to tell us what was so obvious? Suppose so. Maybe, it will wake up a few more IN Israel and OUT for the genuine need for REAL LEADERS--fearless & bold--to start dealing with evil--not with loose lips & propaganda--but ACTION designed to wipe out EVIL! Selah!

Politicians such as Olmert have no honor. To hold on to his power after this damning report? How does he think he is serving the State and its people? Will he apologize? No, he will deny all culpability. Will Bush admit his blunders? Of course not. To think that Rabin resigned because his wife had a foreign checking account--that was an honorable man.

there is no reason to debate or prepare for war, we want to kick ass because we can.

They have to look at the failures within the system becuase their survival depends on it, whereas the Arabs are too corrupt, greedy, stupid and many, to do any such thing as even put pen to paper. The Egyptians were too arogant, so were the Syrians and Jordanians. The Iraqis and Iranians both new they'd been bamboozled by the west in their war and so the only failure there was the war itself. I think now hezbillah has done a lot of this sort of thing over the years because of the results they have produced, they have continuously adapted and learned to rely on the predictability of the IDF in war. I think Syria and Iran have also done their homework, because i think nowawdays there is much to lose. So in the event of another war with Hezb, it will be much harder and bloodier for both sides, same with Iran and Syria. Gone are the days when Israel could rely on Arab arrogance and ignorance to overcome armies and conquer entire regions.

The world knows how those at the helm performed during the 2006 War. Now, the Experts have made their findings and judgments. This should lead to resignations and a new election so that the masses could decide on the next government.

War crimes !!! ... ohhhh ,,,this is the "Isareli democracy".. : You can commit as much as you want of war crimes as long as the victims are not Jews "

i see that nasrallah is the winner and let us said that the israeli mission in lebanon was feiled 100% and all nasralah soeach is correct it is the begining of israeli down

And I expect to see Lebanon's report, deriding it's government for inaction as their country was overrun and controlled by terrorists. But I doubt that draft is quite ready. Hindsight is ALWAYS 20/20.

Didn't we all know this... "the government did not consider the whole range of options, including that of continuing the policy of 'containment', or combining political and diplomatic moves with military strikes below the 'escalation level', They could have added, disproportionate response.

Unfortunately this part of the Winograd report is not dealing with the grave failures of Tzipi Livni as FM. The US consider the handling of the Lebanon affair a strategic defeat for Israel of enormous consequences. The US might well try to reach a deal with Iran letting Israel in the cold. Reports are coming in today about a giant Syrian bunker system with hundreds of missiles, many with chemical warheads directed against Israel. At the same time, the Olmert troika, so welcomed into office by Haaretz, is sitting idly by watching the strangulation of Israel in the North and in the South to continue. Should Livni become PM, Israelis will have to look for a country to settle down. The Kadima gang will not only realize to run away from Judea and Samaria – the wish of Haaretz – but from the whole of Israel.

and the responsible leader would resign. This commission is fabricated by Olmert and it has no authority to remove him.

The Americans are now calling it a tactical defeat. I suggest that the Arab countries do not smart over this,I am sure that Israel knows what to do in the case of further agression.

50% intermarriage & divorce in double figures. So why must ISRAEL change? Meir I'll do a deal with you & it's an offer you shouldn't refuse. I won't interfere in your problem in the GALUT and you don't stick your nose in ours. You live in Canada, educate your youth with PRIDE in being Jewish, Be truthful with them on Zionism, use law abiding proud ISRAELIS as the example, don't try to make hero's of troublemakers marching to Homesh & other places in Jordan, STOP cramming religion down their throats thereby frightening them away & into the arms of non Jews. We in ISRAEL are no less Jewish than you in the Galut. Much as I hate using the term, perhaps MORE so as we live it every single day. When we travel on a bus, speak Ivrit & not ivriSSS, pay with Shekalim, watch TV, read a newspaper other than Ha'Aretz b'Anglit!!! Israel the JEWISH STATE. warts & all I LIVE & LOVE IT! Think about it Meir & others.

From a quick reading of the account of the inquiry, it appears to be silent as to how high the responsibility should go for the huge number of war crimes which were committed.

No matter how many comissions there are, without providing equal rights to all its citizens, Israel remains a pseudo-democracy according to Western democracy standards. At least we are more democratic than our neighbours, we definetly outnumber them with comissions.

The only just solution, Olmert and Peretz should resign forthwith.

Shame has a face! Olmert, Peretz Livni and Halutz? The worse leadership Israel has had in its history since Jezabel! This is the face of people that are not real Zionistic people, people whose interest is their own pocket and image. Basically people that have not been prepared to understand the existence and the reason for our Jewish state and the most painful part is that those shameful people will try to keep their seats in the government and continue to have a political life. Well Olmert, you are NOT my prime minister, you are a liability for Israel, take you clowns (Peretz and Livni with you) and leave Israel forever? The death of my brothers in arms is partially your fault! ( hu yea by the way Mr. Perez "Nasarallah" did not forget your stupid name nor will I) Golani 51 forever! Sunny

Prime Olmert must resign now because of his failure, but he is one of the weakest leaders Israel ever produced and he is corrupt and inefficient to be the leader of a country like Israel. He will lead Israel in to more disasters and it is high time for him to go now.

Lebanon will always prevail ....

example of Israeli democracy at work. We, Israelis, tend to be self critical and introspective. Often times, outsiders do not understand our way of examining ourselves. Some perceive it as a weakness. Yet, we are as strong as a society as ever and these prccesses give us strength and enable us to correct errors and improve ourselves.

It's not the PM fault. It's Israel's fault. The prime minister was rushed into war. It was an american war template and it had to be tested, he had to follow orders like any other soldier in the field. Israel and israelis paid the price. It's part of the $3 billion aid package that Israel gets every year.

...."severe failure" in exercising judgment, responsibility and caution during the outset of the war. Not just Olmert to blame, it also applies to large parts Of Israel's population that supported the war and naivly accepted all the nonsense of war objectives spread by its leaders. Start investigating more into education budget and you might be able to you use your brain instead of bullets, or better, read Gideon Levy who turned out to be a prophet on the issue.

I have to admit, there are few things I like about Israel and one of the things I like is the ability and courage of Israelis and the goverment to look at failures within the system and within the state. Such was the case of the commission appointed after the early failures of the 73 War, the War on Lebanon in 82 and the cold blooded murder of Palestinians in Sabra and Shatila and now the War on Lebanon II. On the Arab side, we never saw a full accounting of the failures in 48, 67, 73, the Iraq/Iran War, the Gulf War, the Second Intifada among others. When Arabs citizens and government will have the courage to look at failures and see what went wrong and more importantly to hold those responsibile for failures accountable for their deeds. One thing for sure, the Israeli leadership must be brought to criminal trials in ineternational courts for its War on Lebanon and the dropping of a million cluster bombs. Bush and Condy should also stand trial.

Sayyed Nasrallah warned them that they were making a big mistake and this report vindicates him as the premier political mind and leader in the Middle East.

If you are asking my opinion I would say that in case of goal of Lebanese resistance (resistance to what though) was to demolish old building in the south and in the capital and them build new once using international aid then they definitely got what they wanted. If Lebanese resistance had something else in mind I am afraid to say they did not achieve much. So my answer to the first question is ?C? neither. The second question is much easier. Since as far as I am concerned any politician has only as much honesty as it is enough to convince himself that he is honest the answer is again ?C? that is neither. Have I passed?

"Olmert was also came under criticism for rushed actions at the outset of the war, and for failing to consult with either military or non-military experts." "Peretz 'did not have knowledge or experience in military, political or governmental matters. He also did not have good knowledge of the basic principles of using military force to achieve political goals.'" Sounds like the Bush administration, doesn't it? Still, we should not forget that Hezbollah did suffer heavy losses, and that it was Hezbollah who retreated from the battlefield under fire.

is the first lesson on each Military Academy. We had ,and have still, no answer to the Quassams and all the other rockets andmissiles,although we knew they have them and they will use them. We ware surprised in their anti tank rockets, yet we should have know. Why the Intelligence people are not blamed in . the Vinograd report ? And what strategy the enemy will use the next war ? If we underestimate them again it will cost a bloody price.

After such a report, with all the evidence of this government's failures, no people with any sense of survival can allow Olmert and Peretz to continue to lead Israel to self destruct. Now it is up to the people to demand the government to resign.

The only result Olmert and Condolizssa achieved in this war was massacring innocent civilians on both side of the border.

Which ideology won? Easy, Zionism. Israel lost very few people; Hizb Allah missiles were willy erratic and the "Lebanese Resistance" wasn't a functional or even imaginary "resistance" to anything. All it did was kill, kidnap and send rockets from among babies and mothers. Hardly brave. Israel had enough resolve to criticize itself and Nasrallah enough to hide his wide derriere in a safehouse. Also not so brave. As for trust; I wouldn't trust Olmert or Nasrallah; both proved to be very poor leaders. Nasrallah brought way too much death on the Lebanese he purports to "resist" for and Olmert brought shame to the country that gave him its trust after Sharon was sidelined.

'Winograd said that the IDF was unprepared because Israel's political echeclon had believed that the era of war was over'. I find this conclusion difficult to believe. Viva democracy

1- Which Ideology achieved its goals during the 2006 summer war? A) Lebanese Resistance B) Zionism 2- Who should the "Israelis" trust? A) Mr. Ehud Olmert B) Mr. Hassan Nasrallah

listern to this man nasrallah. nothing but the truth

Go now, you clown!

Only in a democratic country will an independent comission have such criticism and impact. Let us be proud of our country despite it's failings. The Arabs have nothing but oil and hatred.

Olmert's biggest mistake was not to include Nassrallah and his clowns as targets for the government-appointed committee - Judge Winograd couldn't have helped himself then to make even Grandma Olmert look good in the light of Hezbollah's enorm stupidity!

I believe in the past Israel had the benefit of having a good and ready to go war plan waiting for the pretext to launch into it. This time they got the pretext but didn't have the well polished plan ready and waiting. I think the IDF was too machismo to admit they weren't ready. That's the crux of the problem, and Olmert and Peretz believed them, for a while. Pity.

At the last elections we elected the 'best' of a very bad lot.They not surprisingly failed miserably. The Pensioners Party's success was a protest vote, but they too have proved to be a useless bunch of mediocrity. All the other options have already failed, be it Bibi, Barak or Livni,. Her showing in the War was pathethetic, and showed no leadership whatsoever. So we are all looking for a leader. Yair Lapid should be given the opportunity to attract a completely new set of leaders from outside the cronies infesting our current political scene.To bring in new talent and maybe,like New York's Gulliano, create a new era of political honesty and ability. These are desperate times and we must look outside the existing system to save our state,our democracy and reinstate acceptable values and norms.

How cringemaking and shameful to see these two incompetents clinging to their positions by their fingernails. The people of Israel has already made their judgement long before Winograd as shown in the polls. I hope Israelis will be proactive to make their displeasure so obvious that they will have to go. And let us hope what follows will be better. The Islamic fundamentalists are circling hoping for a kill after Lebanon. There is a pretty good chance of a major conflict in the next six months. Israel needs to be well prepared.

This committee, and the mechanism of self-criticism, is unique to democratic societies. Israel has long shown such an ability to a greater extent than more veteran democracies, such as the US. At the end of the day, lessons learned from shortcomings in 2006 may render the timing of Hizbullah's terrorist activities a blessing in disuise: Offering Israel an opportunity to improve many functions critical to national security, before a greater threat evolved. If such lessons are taken to heart, than the sacrificies of those Israelis who were killed or wounded in the conflict, will not have been in vein.

At least you have people willing to tell the truth. Here in the US, we're still waiting for our incompetent leaders to admit why we're really in Vietraq. It seems the Israeli media hasn't been neutered like ours.

"Shaul Mofaz should be made defence minister once again. He has the most experience and will do the best job." Are you kidding? He bears a great share of the responsibility for the unpreparedness of the IDF.

Anybody recall Nasarallah's speach on TV at onset of War? Paraphrase.. Israeli leaders Olmert and Peretz are amateurs and are acting rashly. Halutz is not consulting experienced military individuals. How sad that it took a military defeat, many precious lost lives, destruction of the North, etc. to come to the exar same conclusions. And.. the country still does not catch on.

The timing and start of the war was a stroke of genius - Hizbolla were not expecting this to happen - which must be credited to Olmert. The execution of the war was a disgrace - clearly this is the responsibility of the Minster of Defense and Chief of Staff - the later already huri-kiried. In my books Israel still only needs a decent Minster of Defense.

today we hear of corruption scandals involving high ranking government officials including the prime minister then we hear of the gross incompetence of the same people avery israeli looks to for hope and guidance. i am afraid that for the first time in its history, israeli is being led by selfish and very incompetent people. in extension i blame it squarely on every voter who voted for this people without scrutinising their experience and record in leadership. just because sharon fell into a coma people went ahead to elect people who care less about the security of israel. if olmert insists on holding onto office with the damning report clearly exposing his lack of leadership qualities it would be an act of betrayal of the jewish people. let him resign and apologize immediately for bringing shame and defeat to israel. has israel lost leadership material for its people to elect anyone without knowing who they are electing?

It is clear what happens when the PM, Defence Minister and Chief of Staff all fail at once. The fact that Israel did not lose the war (they certainly did not win it) is the only saving grace. Hizb Allah's abilities were and remain limited and they do not present an existential threat. Forcing the remaining two of the Three Stooges to resign won't help and neither will throwing Bibi at it.Has he yet proven he's much more than bark over bite? No. This is about Israeli resolve and creativity. Like it was through 1967 and after the initial mess of 1973. Like it was under Begin and under Rabin and yes, under Sharon. It is about the IDF recapturing its edge and about a strong Commander.(Ashkenazi is a much better choice than Halutz). Mostly it's about a bored, selfish population; too comfortable in Ramat Aviv penthouses needing to remember how much harder Israel ALWAYS has to work and fight to succeed and survive.

This is a criminal offense.

For sending them out to fight in such a way. Especially to those whose loved ones fell in the battles before Olmert's "ceasefire". They should beg their forgiveness, all three.

That's about the only good thing the world can expect from this report. If Olmert is dropped because of the Lebanon disaster, a disaster lasting 4 months, total death toll under 2,000, Bush can't be feeling good with his record of death and destruction. Now it will be kosher to dicuss the "I" word in the American media. I see his ouster as being a catalyst for good and it's not every day one can say that about Israel. With Blair on his way out, it will be fun to watch Bush continue his slide to oblivion. Other than that, it's business as usual in Zion. Not sure Olmert ever understood his role, it was Sharon who had the coma and he was to take over.

why did the Israeli public elect this moron? DId they not see he had no experience or military skills to leead the country? or did they expect a resurrection of sharon?

In the same way Olmert et al hinted, remezed and then threatened to use ground infantry in Lebanese War II that they had had no intention to use to actually fight a ground war and didn't know what to do with when they dumped them over the border and told them to run to the Litani, Olmert should threaten to fire himself if people don't leave him alone

Shaul Mofaz should be made defence minister once again. He has the most experience and will do the best job.

What is most baffling is the fact that this weak Olmert/Peretz Leadership which sorely lacked experience in warfare had not the slightest intention of stepping down to be replaced by a Special War-time Cabinet when the Second Lebanon War began. If it was good for Britain to do so during the Second World War when Churchill was elected, why should it not be good enough for Israel.....? Arrogance.....?

"Regressing" democracies, as you put it, don't apoint investigating committees that delve deep and reveal all their failings. Israel did; Lebanon didn't. So Lebanon, if it can at all be termed a democracy, is indeed a regressing democracy. Incidentally, why do you, who claim to be Lebanese and thus a speaker of Arabic, write "Levanon" as in Hebrew, instead of "Lubnan" or "Libnan", as in Arabic? Hmmmm...

A govt the Israeli people can rally behind and with instant credibility!!!!

Here he comes...

before all you naysayers jump on the "see Israel lost the war anyhow, israel failed" bandwagon, keep in mind that it is still amazing to have an open and free inquiry into the failings. Do you see that happening in any of the Hamas, hexbollah, or Iranian countries? We might of lost the skirmish, or not, but we still have the moral high ground in ideas.

Get Olmert out and put in a guy that will help Israel raise from it's declining situtation.

not that i want to say my two cents worth, but this is not looking good for the country, olmert and his cronies are looking out for themselves, unfortunately from what i have said before, israelis ( not all ) tend to blame others for their actions or inactions, and very well displayed by the P.M, so are you zionists gonna say that i'm talking crap, with more proof in this article? lets see. you need a strong government with a REAL view for peace, whos up to the challenge?

The fact is, truth is truth and Olmert and company are liers and the slogens that they say are false. Colin may be anti israel but on this one he is right. The ultimate problem is: when someone that is not Jewish, views Israel, they view it in idealistic terms. And I agree with that. It is special to be born a Jew. But look what the Jewish people do. There is an intermariage rate of over 50% and the divorce is in double digits. This means the Jewish people are selfish. It must change.

It's well clear now, that the Israeli democracy is regressing since after the failure in war Olmert should have resigned by himself not to be pushed by his party. His deeds lack morality or loyalty to his country.

Olmert is a threat to national security and he needs to go but unfortunatly unless getting rid of him means new ellections then better he stay because the alternative is Livni and she is even more left wing and compromising than he is and she unfortunatly has alot of support so unlike Olmert she will be able to get away with anything. The only solution is new ellections to get rid of this whole crooked kadima / labour regime time for some new thinking Livni is just as weak internationaly she is no Sharon and the arabs see her just as much of a PM that can be walked all over and their politcal plans can be pushed forward even if they are not in Israels best interests The problem but she isnt an old balding man she is a young new face so people want to give her a chance even if she is simply picking up where Olmert will be leaving off. The only solution is new ellections he isnt perfect but give Natanyahu a chance to push forward new policies and abandon this rediculous arab plan.

Olmert is a threat to national security and he needs to go but unfortunatly unless getting rid of him means new ellections then better he stay because the alternative is Livni and she is even more left wing and compromising than he is and she unfortunatly has alot of support so unlike Olmert she will be able to get away with anything. The only solution is new ellections to get rid of this whole crooked kadima / labour regime time for some new thinking Livni is just as weak internationaly she is no Sharon and the arabs see her just as much of a PM that can be walked all over and their politcal plans can be pushed forward even if they are not in Israels best interests The problem but she isnt an old balding man she is a young new face so people want to give her a chance even if she is simply picking up where Olmert will be leaving off. The only solution is new ellections he isnt perfect but give Natanyahu a chance to push forward new policies and abandon this rediculous arab plan.

Benjamin Netanyahu was a failure as PM, as was Ehud Barak, each for different reasons. From what I have read of Netanyahu, I don't think he has the character and moral fiber to be PM. He may not have embezzled (but who knows?), but he lacks decency and humanity. David Ben-Gurion, Levi Eshkol, even Menahem Begin, in spite of his terrorist past, had all of these necessary qualities. Amir Peretz should go beck to running unions. Tzipi Livni, is untried and inexperienced, in spite of her being FM, and Ami Ayalon is an unknown quantity. Of all the possible candidates, I prefer Meir Sheetrit, who has both the necessary educational and political background and considerable experience on both the municipal and national planes, but he doesn't seem to be a charismatic figure who can draw votes. Israel has a leadership crisis.

I don't understand how on earth the PM with 2-3% approval rating can stand firm on his office, and making threat to all over middle east, including IRAN. Isn't that incredible?

This govt. is without a doubt the most pathetic in Israeli history !

Why wait for summer the beginning of the week is a good time as any. Olmert pack your bags and leave today and do Israel a favor. For once in your term as PM do the right thing Leave Now.

I keep thinking of all the people who keep claiming Israel 'won' that 'war' last summer. So what are these? More laurel wreaths from a grateful nation?

olmert, livni, peretz & the rest of the cabnet should be ousted by midnight Monday. DK