Lebanese army, air force pound militant positions in northern refugee camp
At least 21 dead in two-day-old army offensive against Fatah al-Islam militants holed up in camp.
By News AgenciesThe Lebanese army and air force pounded Fatah al-Islam positions in an embattled northern refugee camp on Saturday, in the second day of a renewed military offensive against the Al-Qaida inspired militants.
In the air force's first involvement in nearly two weeks of fighting, a helicopter on Saturday fired missiles and strafed suspected positions of Islamic militants on the edge of a Palestinian refugee camp with machine gun fire.
The helicopter, a French-made Gazelle, directed machine gun fire at areas near the Mediterranean coastline. Two air-to-surface missiles were also fired during three runs over the area.
It was not clear what the aircraft was firing at, but it was possibly blocking an escape route by sea for the militants.
Security sources said two Lebanese soldiers were killed overnight in a rocket propelled grenade attack on their armored vehicle by the Fatah al-Islam militants at the Nahr al-Bared refugee camp in north Lebanon.
Four more soldiers were killed and 10 wounded Saturday, bringing the army's casualties to six dead and 20 wounded since the Friday's start of the offensive.
Inside the Nahr al-Bared camp, a spokesman for the militants said they would neither surrender nor give up their weapons.
"There is no way we will give up our weapons because it is our pride. We cannot even contemplate surrendering," Abu Salim Taha, Fatah al-Islam's spokesman, told Reuters by telephone. He denied the loss of key positions.
The army has been battling the Fatah al-Islam militants since May 20 in Lebanon's worst internal violence since the 1975-1990 civil war. The Lebanese government says Fatah al-Islam triggered the fighting when it attacked army positions around the camp and Lebanon's second largest city, Tripoli.
19 people, including at least three Lebanese soldiers, were killed inside the camp on Friday, security sources said, bringing the total death toll to at least 105, 40 of whom are soldiers.
The sources said 18 other soldiers were wounded and could not say whether those who died inside Nahr al-Bared were Fatah al-Islam militants or civilians.
Meanwhile, under the cover of artillery barrages, dozens of Lebanese army tanks and armored carriers moved toward the refugee camp Friday in pursuit of the militants holed up inside.
The artillery bombardment sent clouds of white smoke rising out of the Nahr al-Bared camp where Fatah al-Islam militants have been holed up in a 13-day siege by the Lebanese army.
The shelling also ignited fires in the camp that spewed black smoke. The militants have barricaded themselves in residential neighborhoods of narrow, winding streets and apartment buildings.
About 50 armored personnel carriers, battle tanks and military vehicles from elite units massed at the northern edge of the camp and drove toward the forwardmost positions, according to APTN television crew at the scene.
There was no confirmation that the army units were making a final push to take over the camp, or were just advancing to grab territory and isolate the militants in pockets. But a significant decrease in shelling, accompanied by a rise in machine gun fire from armored carriers and exchanges of automatic rifle fire, suggested the troops were already engaging the militants.
Television footage showed the movement of T-55 Russian-made tanks, French-made Panhard tanks, M-113 U.S.-built armored personnel carriers and jeeps with 106mm rifles mounted on them. Sandbags were packed on some of the vehicles.
Military officials would not comment on the troop movements and journalists were pushed back further from the camp. But a statement bythe army command said troops came under fire from the militants and the army was responding with accurate and decisive fire to deter them. The statement said the army was at the same time avoiding civilian casualties.
The concentrated bombardment began in the morning, with heavy barrages targeting all parts of the camp.
Sporadic gunfire exchanges have continued daily since a truce halted three days of heavy fighting.
A Lebanese soldier was killed by Islamic militants' sniper fire on Thursday. The death Thursday raised to 32 the number of soldiers killed since fighting between the army and Fatah Islam militants began on May 20. At least 20 civilians and about 60 militants also have been killed.
The army has ringed the Nahr al-Bared camp with hundreds of soldiers, backed by artillery and tanks, poised to storm the camp and prevent militants from fleeing. The government has vowed to crush the militants, who have said they will fight till the end.
Thousands of Palestinians have fled the camp, but thousands more are still inside, along with the Fatah Islam fighters.
On Thursday, army commander Gen. Michel Suleiman toured the military positions around the Nahr al-Bared camp in the northern city of Tripoli, vowing to track down the militants responsible for killing the soldiers.
Prime Minister Fuad Siniora says militants "have no choice but to surrender," vows camp will be rebuilt
said there were still about 250 members of Fatah Islam - which he said was involved with intelligence agencies in Syria - inside the camp. Saniora promised Palestinians who fled Nahr el-Bared that they will be able to return and that the camp will be rebuilt.
The militants have no choice but to surrender, Saniora told Dubai-based Al-Arabiya television, adding that the government would assure this group justice and a fair trial.
Palestinians worried battles spread to other campsPalestinian leaders are striving to ensure that fighting between army troops and Islamist militants in north Lebanon does not ignite violence at refugee camps elsewhere.
Palestinian factions at the sprawling Ain al-Hilweh camp in south Lebanon said they were determined to prevent any spillover from nearly two weeks of clashes pitting the Lebanese army against al Qaida-inspired fighters at Nahr al-Bared camp.
The Fatah al-Islam group - which the Lebanese government says has many Arab foreigners in its ranks - has little support among Palestinians, but army bombardment of Nahr al-Bared over the past 13 days has stirred fear and resentment in other camps.
"Palestinian forces have all decided that the battles will not be transferred to Ain al-Hilweh and to tighten security in the camps," said Muneer al-Maqdah, a Fatah military commander.
Ain al-Hilweh, home to about 70,000 refugees, is the biggest of Lebanon's 12 camps. They house 400,000 Palestinians whose families fled the conflict over Israel's creation in 1948
Dilapidated and squalid, the unruly settlements have few health and social services. Refugees are banned from working in more than 70 professions in Lebanon, so unemployment is high.
A 1969 Arab agreement barred Lebanese security forces from the camps, which were to be policed by Palestine Liberation Organisation guerrillas then setting up bases in Lebanon.
Israel's 1982 invasion of Lebanon forced out most of the guerrillas and heavy weaponry, leaving the camps in the hands of competing factions which are still allowed to keep their guns.
Beyond the reach of the Lebanese authorities, the camps also provide sanctuary for Islamist militants and wanted criminals.
The army has so far held back from storming Nahr al-Bared - a risky act that would breach the 1969 Cairo agreement and could cause heavy civilian casualties. Such an assault might also spur militants in other camps to retaliate against the army.
Such groups are known to have a presence in Ain al-Hilweh, near the southern port of Sidon, where they are distrusted both by Fatah, the biggest faction, and its Islamist Hamas rival
"There are elements that are not under any umbrella, neither Islamist nor nationalist. If things get worse (in Nahr al-Bared) they might attack the army," said Abu Ahmed Fadel Taha, Hamas's representative in Sidon. "They can throw a grenade or a bomb."
He said mainstream factions had so far been able to keep a lid on rogue militants, but they remained worried about them.
Fatah leaders, however, insisted such groups were small, were under control and posed no threat to camp security.
Periodic skirmishes have shaken Ain al-Hilweh in recent months, mainly between Fatah and a small, Sunni Muslim militant group called Jund al-Sham. Most have been swiftly contained.
Security sources say Jund al-Sham has only a few dozen combatants, some of whom have fought in Iraq.
Usbat al-Ansar, a bigger Islamist militant group based in Ain al-Hilweh, says it is helping to keep Jund al-Sham under control in return for protecting the group from its rivals.
"They realise their numbers are very small, their weaponry is very little. If Usbat al-Ansar lifts its cover off them, they wouldn't exist," said Usbat al-Ansar spokesman Abu Sharif.
The Nahr al-Bared fighting has yet to spread elsewhere, but Ain al-Hilweh residents said they felt the tension.
"Of course we're scared that something will happen here because all the camps are threatened. The army could decide to battle militants here," said Sawsan Majzoub, 28.
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Lebanese soldiers sitting in an armored personnel carrier as they make their way toward the Palestinian refugee camp Nahr al-Bared in northern Lebanon on Friday. (Reuters) |
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some people asked that why the lebanese army didnt fight israel and why they fight only the kaeda people or palastienian people in lebanon. all what i want to say , since iam a lebaneas citizian , no one has the right to speak any thing bad about this army becouse it is one of the most honest army in the world and all what he needed is the machines and tanks and aircrafts and battel ships and lebanon army has no enemy except those who want to play in his country
This is unfortunate. And Hope this shelling will stop. Since you are talking figures, can you please tell me how many houses they destroyed during these attacks and how many did israel destroy ? how many innocent people they killed and how many israel did ? unless you think that a life is cheaper than another ?! Violence brings violence. Opression brings terrorism.. Hope no one get injured or suffer anymore, hope politicians are the only victims.. I know, you can sacrify Olmert :-)
Maybe Ms. Cristina should read some history and discover that these same 400,000 palestinians are really supposed to be in their homeland. Not in Lebanon. For they have overextended their welcome... They do not belong to lebanon, and they are indeed UNWELCOME guests. So we do NOT intend to make them feel welcome. I hope we make them feel UNWELCOME enough so that they get the heck out of our country and do what they will, wherever they want. But OUTSIDE our country. you are living in London. Why dont you sponsor a couple of them and put them in your own backyard? Regarding Israel's army, come on... without american weapons and without technology, we kicked it out of southern lebanon. Tsahal is not what it used to be...
qassams, 270 fired into Israel in the last two weeks, are not attacks? what would you call them? Party favors?
the middle east with hatred & are themselves free of the Radical Islamists. I say capture and ship them to Iran so they can pester Ah-Mad-In-A-Jar (may he rot in hell)!
Class is not always necessary when relating history. I think he just wanted to get her attention. Good reading material. Got my attention.
...the terrorists hide behind civilians in Lebanon but why not in Gaza or the West Bank? If you step away from the anti-Zionist image your brethren have burned into your brain for one minute You might realize that Israel is just doing the same thing as the L. Army (only not as thoroughly).
Are you kidding! You got your head up her Behind? You're both idiots!
No one is condeming them & you should convince your EU (especially your liberal Britt's) to keep their mouths shut about Israel.
Pleez!! What excuse do you have before the Israelis were returned to their land? The ME has always been in an uproar over one thing or another.
You need to straighten out your own leadership before you can make peace with Lebanon. Your leaders won't do the right thing to protect their own people (Sderot for starters)so who needs peace with Israel? You have to become a country first, then maybe you can bring something beneficial to Lebanon.
Sounds alot like Paris. Don't you see something wrong with the Muslim dynamic?
The Lebanese army was hiding. Too scared to fight the Israelis. Or obeying US orders to sit and watch ?
Of all what i have written, is that all you understood??? Ohhhhhh boy. Maybe you should return to school and learn how to read and write your name too. George should be written Georges with an s.maybe yo ont need it because your S..t. Lol. thanks George with an S.
If a terrorsit group in attacking you in Tel Aviv, you have the right to destroy them and the International community will support you. This is what is happening in tripoli right now. but, If you are attacking people in a occupied country, treating them like sh.t, the first think people will think either you are an apartheid state or simply Israel.. nothing to do with being jew or victime from nazis
arabs kill arabs, muslims kill muslims, muslims kill non-muslims, muslims kill ... and everyone blames Israel anyway.
actions as the Lebanese army does? And why, I ask? To me the answer is clear: Because Israel is a Jewish country, viewed by the rest of the world through a different prism. This very fact is anti-Semitic in nature!
was blasted to bits by the Zionists? were they drinking coca-cola or pepsi cola? Just as well that Hezbo fighters proved to be the real army of that country
where is the UN, the UE, UK condamning those killing against civilians by the Lebanese army ?
We are right with you, there is nothing we in Israel want more than a peace treaty with Lebanon and then we can help you clear the terrorism from your country. Here's to our future peace!
"The August war was launched by Israel against Hezbollah." No, Hezbollah violated Israeli territory, killed eight soldiers and kidnapped two, that is called starting a war in any language. To use your own phrase: Please, get informed before writing comments...
the dumbest post of all time...if israel/pals start making love wont affect any other conflict in arab/muslim world
Lets hire the Lebanese Defense Minister to replace Peretz. He seems much more competent and the world does not mind Arab on Arab violence.
Those that ask for the Pal to return are you including the Jews that had to run from the Arab countries. They had to leave property and business behind. Little Israel tok them in but the rich oil Muslim cousins dont want the PAL? . WHY?????????????
Israel must do same in Gaza as Lebanon in Pal camp. Millitants must be disarmed. Israel must promote friendly Pal Leaders to the power in Gaza, similar Lebanon must do. Peace with so called Pals can be achieved as soon as all countries in ME as Israel,Jordan, Ehypt and Lebanon will form a stong economical-industrial cooperation which will help to distribute so called Pals among these countries as working worce for good.
Again I read that tthe Pal are not able to work in another country. Why.???? Could it be they are known to ne trouble makers. Could it be that killing theiur children for a profit has turned of others. Maybe if they became educated and showed less hate they would be accepted.
I guess Jack's documented facts makes your little head explode?
Well said, Natalie.
Hey Tastous, go a get a life, or treatment. Quit attacking this poor lady, cristina. She displayed more class than you.
Joe, Joe, Joe, You have no clue for what you are talking about. Do you think that by posting a pathetic message you will makw things better. The root cause problem is not in a miserable camp in M. Lebanon. A major portion of the problem is ill informed people like yourself. Wow!! No wonder why no one get the real probelm addressed. You sound like your Bashir and his doomed foolish dynasty.
Why should we give the palestinian refugees the citizenship? We won't give them that and we shouldn'tm because too simply we don't want them to stay in our country... They didn't come from Lebanon, as far as I remenber... Anyways, I support a peace treaty between Lebanon and the state of Israel and I hope that our nice PM Siniora will sign it as soon as possible. We are neighbours and should live in peace. If some people like Nasrallah will disagree, he just have to live in Iran till the end of his life. By the way, I think that Barak is a man of peace. Thanks
World war 2 was started by USSR imperialistic politics of deviding again Poland and other Baltic countries with Germany. Including parts of Omania to. USSR help Germany rearmament buy covering German military development in tanks and aircraft in Russian interior from 1920 thrue 1930's under sicret pacts. And Russia starts 1 World War implementig her Pan Slavic imperialism and draging avrebody into it. Do not forget about muslim overlords at that time , Turkes. Read some books...
Welcome Paula and all the others swallowing the propaganda being fed by palestinian NGO's, left wing and stalinist regimes. If you are Jewish or non-Jewish, please join the American Jewish Committee or read the website to learn and educate yourself about the new antisemitism, anti-zionism. Anyone who is Jewish and believes this propaganda will become the first target and victim of the these antisemites. Hitler failed because he knew propaganda works but he did not have the T.V. and internet; the antisemites only want Hitler's "final solution". Lebanese too, please read what the AJC has to say. We love all of you Lebanese with our heart and soul who are our friends and friends of Israel. Peace to you. On your courageous stand to form the tribunal for Assad, you are to be commended. It will be the first step to justice in the middle east. G-d bless you. Re: propaganda: "A lie travels around the world before truth puts on its shoes." Mark Twain
was and still the damned Isreali - Palastenian conflict. ISREAL should negotiate for peace and end the conflict in ME.
it's time to say enough to all these crazy terrorists.
Take a deeper look to the situation caused by the palestinians to themselves.They didn't accept a partition in 1948(proposed at UN), so they fight and loose becoming refugees at Lebanon, Syria,etc. Today in Gaza strip the Hamas is doing the same, civilians are fighting and the politicians are taking the money and buying arms instead of bringing better health and education. The same image in the two countries, corruption and deals that left out the only one who suffers, the citizen, the poor citizen blinded ,robbed and handcuffed. I think the problem goes just a little bit deeper than you present it. Gaza was part of Egypt and Jerusalem was part of Jordan, they didn't claim these territories because they know what type of leaders are there terrorists,gangsters and smugglers,beauty of persons, Angels......Ohhh yeahhhhh!!!!!
Cristina Lebanon didn't start the latest war against the palestinians. They robbed the bank and killed people. These thugs are only 10 or less percent palestinians. Arafat started the war in Lebanon in 1975 due to a visit by Henry Kissinger. It was a way of trying to get the palestinians another land instead of settling in Israel. We have many problems of our own and we're not rich in oil and any other means that lebanon can afford to help aid such huge populations. It was Arafat who made these agreements in Lebanon about the Palestinians. If you want to protect these thugs who some of them are Lebanese, Saudis, Somalis and God knows what planet earth the came from, then it make a thug yourself. You're just ignorant and frustrated. Yes Lebanese cannot fight the Israelis because they have been hijacked by Syrians, Lebanese Leaders and Arabs. Now they finally wake up and decide to help the Army. For many years Syria kept control of Lebanon and they supported Hizbollah and trained them.
As an American, I applaud you and all Lebanese. And never give up your country to the riff raff who thinks they can own you.
the glue that holds Lebanon together is Democratic rule. Under Democracy each individual can prosper and become as industrious as they choose. One of the key reasons Democracies work so well. Capitalism and all. As for fighting their civil war, Pals caused that 20 year problem, not the Lebanese. If Pals spent as much time and effort on becoming the nation they say they want to be, instead of fomenting trouble in every country they are in, they would have the same kind of prosperity. Unfortunately they choose anarchy and hatred over all that could be theirs.
Yes and yes!!!! Lebanon is asserting its sovereign rights. I am so proud today of this incredibly courageous people.
Did you read the article? Egypt brokered an agreement. They are Independent. Lebanon owes them nothing. Pals started a 20 year civil war in Lebanon. Nothing but trouble wherever they go. Jordans military killed thousands of Pals in an uprising. Egypt doesn't want them either. The Pals in Syria aren't treated well by Assad either. Who is to blame?
I hope the Lebanese Army beats the hell out of the Islamists!!! Disproportionate or not, those renegades and thugs deserve whatever they get!!
for prosp[erity snd industry. I am sure if they(Palestinaians or Lebeanese) wanted more workers they woould use the Palestiniasns which we all know are industrious, except when politics get is the way, witnnss Gaza!!! If only they would fight their civil war without blaming others like I do all would be fine.
Don't think this means the Lebanese army is turning on Huzb Allah any time in the future, HA is a part of Lebanon and its people and army, this group is not it's a collection of foreign and some local fundamentalists with little support anywhere in Lebanon.
arabs problems are caused by arabs... same number of jews were expelled from arab countries but israel absorbed them ... big difference....population shifts occur it is how they are dealt with.
u r in denial or simply ignorant. there is no future for christians in the muslim world, you are an infidel. hez will take over yr country eventually (when they are strong enough and iran says so). no islamist grouping has the concept of land and power share - especially on land that they consider is muslim land. Christians are persecuted all over the muslim world..it is all about the power dynamic..everywhere that they have the power you christians are finished. wake up...the muslim world is getting ever more radical and jihadic...the days when christians were arab first are either long gone or soon to go...EVERYWHERE.
I wonder also about the reaction of the 11 Sept. events by the greatest nation of all when Osama was attacking your country from within... First, last summer war was not between the Lebanese Army and the IDF, it was between Hizbullah and IDF. It was not our war! Or else you are a blood thirthty US Citizen who wanted some of our brave armed men slaughtered should they fire back on IDF? Second, We ARE Lebanese and not "Supposed" Lebanese who are defending our country from terrorists who want to build their own so called Islamic empire that is not tolerated even by the true lebanese muslims. Third and last, We Lebanese will continue OUR war against every man woman or child who think that they can by any mean take away our country! as for you , please mind your own American business and focus on your "so called" war against terror in the Iraqi sewers!
Since you are wondering, here is a question for you. Aren't you wondering why the Leb Army is not allowed to have weapons that are less than 50 years old,thus,they can defend Lebanon against israeli attacks where best US made weapons are used? Just for info, LAF reaction depends on Leb Gov decision,and you know better than me, that the actual Leb Gov depends on US desires. Strange,you guys belong to countries that produce and sell deadly weapons and you start wars whenever you fell like,and then you call us terrorists. I am curious to understand you logic.
Natalie, The brave army didn't have ammo, was underequipped and refuses to fight peer Lebanese. Follow the logic: The August war was launched by Israel against Hezbollah. Hezbollah are Lebanese. They are defending their country. You may not agree, but they are. In this case, we have islamic fundamentalists, robbing a bank, murdering 25 army people.. You are therefore comparing apples with oranges. Please, get informed before writing comments...
For the nth time, not all Arabs are Moslems... Repeat after me: Not all Arabs are Moslems... Second, this has nothing to do with Arabs communicating with each other. There is a regular army and an extremist/islamist group of terrorists that robbed a bank and killed 24 army soldiers. These people need to be arrested. For God's sake, please get informed before posting nonsense/comments.
oh how dare u claim that they are mistreated! how about u wake up on day o discover four soldiers slaughterd at night!!and their heads displayed on the streets!fateh el islam militants must be CLEANSED!)..and since ur so worried about the palestinians, why dont u for a change host them , i know lebanon has since 1948!!!and what have they done in return...oh, nothing really, just cause a civil war, and 18 yrs occupation by isreal , and now the naher elbared incident...isreal, would u take them back??ur rights of return are justified after 2000 yrs, arent theres justifiable after onl 60!just let them get off lebanons back and let lebanon live in peace for oncE!
I'm christian my dear, and i live freely and practice my faith and my political rights fully in my country, no one ever confuscated my home or anything of that sort, stop these hallucinations, also there are still many jews in my country, and those who decide to leave still have their citizenship and their properties intact, and they still come to visit their relatives and friends, get real.
The zionist jews claimed palestine is israel because their ancestors lived there before thousands of years !!! why then do you think it is nonsense for the palestinians to claim their rights to return just 40 to 60 years after their houses were stolen?
I see that one more time we are in phase. Lebanon has been at war with Israel for 59 years non-stop, only cease-fires. Who is Lebanon's first and most powerful enemy ? Who still occupies the Shebaa Farms ?
With over 60 Fatah Islam militants killed, the Lebanese army is proving that with the right wapons and support, they can fight and win against anything Al Qaida can throw at them. Hezbollah better be paying attention, they could well be next on the hit-list.
Once again, the IDF had directed a campaign to fight Hezbollah terrorists located in southern Lebanon, between Litani river and the int'l border. Hezbollah had settled there and from there attacked ,kill and kiddnap IDF soldiers as they were patroling the border. As an act of defense of the sovereignity in his country the IDF had replied to this with a war to dismantle as much as it possible the Hezbollah. No one of us pretended a war to the Lebanese state also if we could finish too faster. We see good intention on the goverment of Siniora to put a limit to the violence sparkled in his country, used by the Syrians and Iranians as a battle field for their terrorist organizations.Terrorism who uses the civilians as shield to hide the maddness and violence, lefting the common citizen without protection and claiming to the world if by mistake any civilian falls under fire. Is a must to be informed and to support Siniora gov so they could reach their Independence and Sovereignity.
Don't blame the Israelis in the Lebanese conflict with the Palestinnians. The refugees had opted to fight the Israelis and deny to the Palestinians the option of a partition and a TWO STATE solution of the conflict presented in 1948 as the best possibility by UN ,accepted by Ben Gurion and rejected by the Palestinians supported by the Arab states. If today the Lebanese goverment don't accept terrorists and killers in their soil is because the extremists had spited in the Lebanese people face. Siniora had said" Enough is enough" Here we live in harmony Jews, Christians, Muslims, Druzes and etc. I'm inside the conflict,so I could tell you what's happen. You are in California, what can you see is what the reporters tell you. They could hide you a big part of the iceberg. Be smart,dive to the bottom of the conflict, you see that UN resolutions are condemned tho be archived by the Palestinians before they left the UN building. They don't seek for peace.
I agree with some Israeli centric commentators about the hypocricy of all this. However, what do you suggest we do? There is a new group on the block, a new terrorist organization that makes hizbollah look like angels. Should the Lebanese government wait for the movement to grow and give Israel another shot at destroying Lebanon again? Lebanon has endured countless political assasinations, persistent bombings, fatal missteps by Israel and a civil war that was sparked by the PLO who took advantage of Lebanon's new and fragile democracy. For the LBN government to risk alienating the Palestinians, it must have ample evidence pointing to the terrorist groups within those camps as a source of many of the bombings. The government cannot even access the camps! They are simply lawless and "self governed". Is is better for the Arabs to clean up their own mess than for Israelis to do it for them!
in saudi arabia,kuwait,bahrain,etc.? do arabs only accept workers from the third world country?
you know what ...blame their leaders.what did arafat or other pa leader do with the money he received from the usa or europe?
i guess you are right lets do it at the same time that arab christians start coming back to the m.east...to the homes they left in the countries of their birth (majority muslim)...and then afterwards any chance of letting the Jews back into arab countries to retrieve their property. Thanks.
It would be a joy to hear from the Islamic clerics once and for all ----- whether or not Palestinian suicide bombers really do travel up to Paradise for honor and sex.
How can these Arab occupyers of Lebanon go back to 'Palestine' when there is NO Palestine. Get real dude, Palestine ceased to exist in 1948 by unanimous decision of the UN democratic countries. Face it, they are a problem tribe of misfits and rejects from Arab lands that no one wants. NO ONE! period. So what do you do with Millions of people that no one wants? Ovens? Nukes? The Moon? When the world gets a solution then we get ME peace. Don't hold your breath!
What is all this talk about 'refugee camps' in Lebanon. These Arabs are occupying Lebanese land and have built huge settlements in the occupied territories. They suck the life from Lebanese society, blackmail the UN for massive handouts, refuse to work or be productive citizens, and host terrorist groups that attack decent Lebanese people and tourists. These Arab squatters are occupying sovereign Lebanese soil and their presence has polluted it. Someone must think up a final solution.
Americans and others on this form, you are swallowing all the propaganda and lies. You cannot distinguish truth from fiction. You live far away in California and know nothing of the region. What are you adding to the peace and understanding between people. My family lived in this region for a long time. I only want peace and understanding and I will lift the tired spirits of the masses living here until it is achieved. My goal is to see that the rule of law is obeyed by everyone including the Pals. Should I sign my post "Tabouleh?" Are you some kind of marginalized people who do not fit into society and are anti-American as well as anti-Jew? Why do you hate Jews so much? You ranted a bunch of lies and misinformation? Where did you learn these lies?
Euh... I don't understand. You mean that someone who was born in Lebanon and then was left in a camp because of Lebanese and Arab politics, should go back to Israel, just because his grand father lived there 60 years ago ? Who is supposed to follow this nonsense ?
The ME had wars and blood long before Islam came to power. To say that they were all buddy buddy is a distortion to the truth. Until Islam came in and put a stop to slavery and since, all religions lived and coexisted peacfully. Then Zionism came in and hence the ME became all messed up. Cultured my foot. You don't culture yourself by stealing people's land and country. What is sad is that you are stealing it in the name of God or what you call Hashem. Hashem did not order you to slaughter people in his name and what is even worse is that you kill them and you call them terrorsits. Why? Because you want them to march in empty fields so you can slaughter them with the weapons our American tax dollars are working hard to raise. May Hashem finally put a stop to your brand of STATE sponsored terrorism. Shalom
Lillith is right. Hebrews and Persians and Lebanese lived on this land and were the most cultured people, civilized and were friends for a long time. Other people throughout time have come to plunder the land, including Greeks, Romans, Muslims, Ottomans. Most of the latter people were military people, barbarians who had no interest in culture, only in ruling the world. Cultured people see the sameness in people and are tolerant which the barbarians are not. The military people have always been known for infighting. They forced people to convert or people went along. They had no morals and made slaves of people; why the Jews never converted or gave up their religion. There are moderates in the arab world. All we want is to see these people in power. Murderers, criminals, terrorists belong in jail. No one is against moderates. They would accept Israel. You have some prejudice.
I wonder where the brave Lebanese army was when their country was being dismantled by Israel. I know of two instances that were reported in which the IAF attacked Lebanese army units and during that war and the attacked units did not even fire back to protect themselves. I know that there are some supposed "Lebanese" that lurk in these forums to criticize certain posts regarding Lebanon, but I say that if their reaction is no stronger than that of their army, then fire away.
Where was the Lebanese Army when Israel invaded Lebanon last year ?
"Five of you will chase a hundred, and a hundred of you will chase ten thousand, and your enemies will fall by the sword before you." Leviticus 26:8 We will chase them till their last man standing, we will burn them in hell should the Bared River spit them dead rats...Those who are worried about the palestinian terrorists let them offer them citizenship and freedom and economic independence! one for one thousand, one hundred for ten hundred thousands...To Hell with fath el Islam!
"the Islamic world, instead of praised. Terrorists, gunmen, illusionary "resistance fighters" who use residential areas and civilian areas for war are not "heroes"." That is how it should be, but it isn't, and will never be. Islam clearly states that any means are accepted to kill the disbelievers. Any. It can be read on so many pages in the Qur'an and the hadits. Islam is not another religion. It is unlike anything else. Well back in the 30's one can find similar thoughts in another idiology that lasted 12 years.
Boy Talk about having your facts all messed up buddy. Over 1/3 rd of the world population are Moslems they might have been acquired forcefully but apparently they like it and that is why they are who they are. On the other hand you can not occupy a little country called Palestine. Do you know why? Because you think you are better than anybody else and that my friend is called racism. Shalom
perhaps those blaming lebanon for not treating the palestinians refugees well, should dig deeper at the root of the problem, these palestinians should return to their homes and villages and towns in palestine. full stop.
I don't understand, when Israel went to war against Lebanon because its three soldiers were captured, all of the Arabs were telling us how Israel wasn't going to war because its soldiers were captured because that's not a big enough incident. Now the Lebanese Army has gone to war against a fundamentalist group and it has led to 100+ casualties because some money was stolen from a bank. Do they believe that this is because Siniora has been commanded to do so?
There is occupation yes. Moslems occupying 21 seperate countries. Aquired those 21 countries through genocide Mecca and Medina is the home of Moslems. Get your facts straight
Palestine. The Hashemites were given control over trans Jordan by their masters, the Brits when they were slaughtered in their native Arabic by the Saudis. They are carpet baggers. They do not belong in Jordan but in Arabia just as the Saudis are really Yemenites. Of these groups only the Jews are in a part of their historic and ancestral land while another part- the main part, Judea , is being taken from Jews to create a second palestinian state. Imagine Judea without Jews- Judenrein! How absurd.
If the I.D.F. was doing this. the Security Council would comdemn Israel for use of "excessive force". Bunch of shameless hypocrites!
Qaeda-linked militant Mohamed Hakaima. Proclaims " Islamists rise up" yes so the mighty army of Al Qaeda goes and hides behind civilians and use them as human shields. Whats the matter with these losers I thought they wanted to die so Allah will welcome them to paradise. Smeone tell these militants Allah doesn't want cowards in paradise. Whats wrong with these militants the Lebanese Army is trying to arrange the meeting for the Al Qaeda militants with Allah and now these Al Qaeda fighters choose to hide behind womans skirts. Are they having a change of heart about being killed?
Congratulations to the Lebanese and Iraqis who have taken matters into their own hands and are fighting Al Qaeda the way only Arabs can. Now if they can just take care of the rest of the world it would be appreciated.
Probably Fuad Siniora had understood that live in a country where the extremists do what they want could cost his own life as Rafik Hariri had paid. I'm sure that Mr Siniora could bring the lebanese people a better future. Democracy in the Middle East is a very rare specimen, I hope they could achieve the democracy in Lebanon. So he could be independent of Syria, Iran and other countries supporters of terrorists. Hurts but there is not other way to the liberty. Hurrah to Mr Fuad Siniora and his supporters in Lebanon and in the free world.
What you know about Islam is null. You can not even spell it right let alone know anything about it. You unfortunaley use Judaism to justify occupying another country and it's people and we use Islam to defend it while in reality these two great religions are innocent of these two groups using them as a tool.
investigate, fakts finding. O,I forgat, there are no Jews involved.
"the lebanese army was attacked by a terrorist organisation hiding behind palestinian refugees in lebanon ." And worse is the Palestinian terrorist groups using their very own women and children to hide behind as they attack Israeli soldiers. All with the encouragement of Farfur and their Islamic clerics.
the Islamic world, instead of praised. Terrorists, gunmen, illusionary "resistance fighters" who use residential areas and civilian areas for war are not "heroes". Period.
here we go again, bad israel, good arabs. the 'children' planting bombs are as much of terrorists as those pieces of $hit hiding behind women and children in lebanon.
i think it goes without saying that muslums do not view the world much the same way everyone else does. they are sedated by their single sided views that date back to barbaric times when people didn't know any better. the only occupation that i'm aware of is muslum occupation of innocent people who eventually are radicalized and turn into zombies propogating hate and justifying terror!
notice, the legitimate defenders of Lebanon are asserting themselves.
what a useless comment from you. At least try to follow the discussion. What does Combodgia have to do with WWII? To remind you,if the soviets were not there, you are all speaking German and fluently in europe, maybe you already do if you are from the german part of Die Schweiz. Go and read some history books about your continent before asking me what to do on this talk back. For info, Communism existed long time before CCCR, e.g. maybe Karl Marx remind you something, I doubt that you know who he is, till then, bonne nuit mon choux.
i cannot believe your double standards. you claim that lebanese army is acting against terrorists in palestinian refugee camp but any action by idf is 'targeting civilians'. don't think that i'm agains lebanese army standing up to the palestinian terror, what bothers me is your double standard against israel. they are doing everything they can to protect their own citizens from acts of terror, unlike lebanese who still have hizbula as members of parlament. your arab propaganda does not fly with people who think for themselves.
Blaming Israel for the Arab Armies attacking it. Laughable, and so pathetic you seem like you are on the Moon or Mars or something. The Arab brotheren asked them to leave while they cleansed the area of Jews...IE GENOCIDE They lost the war, and now want to pretend they never attacked Israel and lost. That's correct.......LOST TransJordanians "Palestinians" have to realize their mistake and move on with their lives. Allah is weak, Islam is False, and Israels' existance continues to prove this fact daily. Go pound some more sand
The tribunal will be the first time an arab dictator has been brought before a court for crimes he committed. I understand they have a trail of evidence that leads to Assad, so unlike Milosevic, he won't escape being found the one who gave the orders. This may set precedence to try him and other dictators for acts of terrorism; and somehow even bring Iran under the jurisdiction of internationl law where they must pay for their crimes. A lot of hope and potential for punishing the criminals under the rule of law and chapter 7. They have punished their victims long enough. Jack has recited a list of all Syria's crimes and they will be brought up at Assad's trial. We have to see what happens at the tribunal and what happens afterwards. The shi'ites should come back and participate in the Siniora govt. I understand they are treating the Pals a little better now so probably this will continue. The islamists have no place in a country like Lebanon. My prayers with you.
Where is the wailing from Amira Hass and Bradley Burston? Isn't the "occupation" to blame for everything that goes wrong with the Palestinians and the rest of the Middle East, if not the whole planet? Damn the occupation!
on April 13, 1975, gunmen from the Falasteeni Fatah opened fire on people congregating outside a church in the Ayn el Rummaneh district, in what was an attempt on the life of Pierre Gemayel. 4 Christians were killed. This incident is regarded as the spark which set off the Civil War.
The Lebanese army bus was stoped the soldiers were butchred, their throats was cut. These Islamist are not palestinians. What do you want the lebanese gov to do, give those islamist a medal of honor and make them a pary too !!!!!
Thanks to the russian, chinese and cambodgia communists, 70 millions deads. Better for you to avoid thsi talkback
This calls for a holy war, boycotts of Lebanon, terrorism, UN resolutions, and of course condemnation by human rights groups. Do the Lebanese at least provide the Palestinians proper cell phone service??? This is outrageous! Palestinians deserve Lebanese funded cell phone service!
1987 to date. Syrian activity reverted to a mix of the first and second periods. As in the first period, terror is mainly deployed in the Middle East (in Turkey and Lebanon, against Palestinians and Israelis); this keeps Damascus out of the headlines and lowers political costs. As in the second period, the regime relies mainly on proxies. After the ambitious experimentation of 1983?86, this blend seems to offer a stable long-term approach to terrorism
1986. During a brief period, especially in the spring of 1986, Asad directly involved relied on his own intelligence services. At one point, one of the highest intelligence officials, Col. Haytham Sa'id, even traveled to Berlin to oversee an operation. Despite an elaborate and cunning network, Syrian involvement was repeatedly discovered - at one point late that year, trials dealing with Syrian-sponsored terror were pending in London, Madrid, Paris, West Berlin, Genoa, Vienna, Istanbul, and Karachi. The regime became internationally notorious and eventually seems to have found the price too high. Bombs in Beirut are one thing; in Paris, quite another. Smarting from the uproar, Asad retreated to the Middle East.
I just read on Ynetnews.com that IDF killed 2 kids on the Palestinian side just for "suspecting" doing something weird. Please, don't speak about human rights when the Lebanese army fights terrorists.
Early 1970s-1982. Syrian nationals participated in Damascus's operations, most of which were directed either against Israeli and Jewish targets or against Arabs. The latter included such enemies of the Syrian state as Syrian dissidents and pro-Arafat Palestinians; it also included officials of states which Damascus wanted to intimidate (such as Jordan, Saudi Arabia, and Kuwait). 1983-85. Two major changes in the modus operandi took place in 1983, both connected to the 1982 war in Lebanon. First, the Syrian government became the international fulcrum for terrorism, having taken over this role from the PLO. In all, an estimated 3,500 desperadoes moved to Damascus after late 1983. Second, the Syrian authorities began taking great pains not to use Syrian nationals in their terrorism campaigns; Syrians acted only as supervisors, while non-Syrians did the dirty work.
Terror also serves more targeted purposes. On one occasion, in September 1986, Syrian officials offered to do what they could to curb terrorism in France - but only in return for economic aid. The spate of Syrian-backed incidents between April and September had, according to Israeli analyst Moshe Zak, two purposes: to prevent an Israeli-Egyptian-Jordanian dialogue and to eliminate Israeli influence over southern Lebanon. Further, he argues, the two are related: "Syrian intelligence seems to believe that the explosions in Paris are a good background for softening France's position on Lebanon, and for making the Elysée Palace exert pressure on Israel" to leave Lebanon. Asad began sponsoring terror even before he became ruler of Syria in 1970. His sponsorship of Palestinian groups in the mid-1960s, for example, contributed directly to the outbreak of the Arab-Israeli war of June 1967. Since Asad became ruler of Syria, his reliance on this tool can be divided into four distinct eras.
In Asad's hands, terrorism has often influenced the actions of foreign states. In Lebanon, it pushed out Western and Israeli troops in 1982-84, and it helped Damascus gain and keep control over most of the country's territory. In the Arab-Israeli conflict, it is instrumental in preventing Arab states from adopting more accommodating policies toward Israel; specifically, it blocked King al-Husayn of Jordan from entering peace negotiations with Israel. In the Persian Gulf, it keeps the money coming. With Libya and Iran, it boosts an otherwise frail alliance. With regard to the Soviet Union, it increases Syrian power and enhances Asad's utility.
The PLO was considered "the richest of all terrorist organizations" with $8-$10 billion in assets and an annual income of $1.5-$2 billion from "donations, extortion, payoffs, illegal arms dealing, drug trafficking, money laundering, fraud, etc.", according to a 1993 National Criminal Intelligence Service report. The Daily Telegraph reported in 1999 that the PLO had $50 billion in secret investments around the world.
Yasser Arafat, The broken revolutionary: "When Arafat needed martyrs in 1976, he called for a truce around the besieged refugee camp of Tel el-Zaatar, then ordered his commanders in the camp to fire at their right-wing Lebanese Christian enemies. When, as a result, the Phalangists and "Tigers" militia slaughtered their way into Tel el-Zaatar, Arafat opened a "martyrs' village" for camp widows in the sacked Christian village of Damour. On his first visit, the widows pelted him with stones and rotten fruit. Journalists were ordered away at gunpoint." In an L.A. Weekly interview published May 30, 2002 Fisk recalls "Arafat is a very immoral person, or maybe very amoral. A very cynical man. I remember when the Tal-al-Zaatar refugee camp in Beirut had to surrender to Christian forces in the very brutal Lebanese civil war. They were given permission to surrender with a cease-fire. But at the last moment, Arafat told his men to open fire on the Christian forces who were coming to accept the surrender. I think Arafat wanted more Palestinian "martyrs" in order to publicize the Palestinian position in the war. That was in 1976. Believe me that Arafat is not a changed man."
May 27, 1976 Linda Joumblatt, Kamal Joumblatt's 55 years old sister, was cowardly assassinated in her home in Beirut. A group of armed men broke into her apartment and opened fire on her. She was killed while her daughters Nouha, 28 years old, and Samar, 18 years old were injured. May 30, 1976 An avalanche of missiles and shells hit Beirut while combats continued on all fronts. The bombings reached the airport, imposing the closure of runways to air traffic at night.
May 27, 1976 Linda Joumblatt, Kamal Joumblatt's 55 years old sister, was cowardly assassinated in her home in Beirut. A group of armed men broke into her apartment and opened fire on her. She was killed while her daughters Nouha, 28 years old, and Samar, 18 years old were injured. May 30, 1976 An avalanche of missiles and shells hit Beirut while combats continued on all fronts. The bombings reached the airport, imposing the closure of runways to air traffic at night.
March 21st assault on the Holiday Inn Hotel in Beirut. At some point during March or April the Palestinians realized that they had gained effective control of Bank Street and so the stage was set for the biggest bank robbery in modern history. Downtown Beirut General looting of the banks was followed by disastrous attempts to dynamite the vaults causing serious injuries to the Palestinian thieves, so they decided to bring in professional safecrackers from Europe, possibly supplied by the mafia. Of the eleven banks robbed, the worst hit were those with safe-deposit vaults, the British Bank of the Middle East, Banca di Roma, and Bank Misr-Liban. The Guinness Book of Records claims the BBME alone lost a minimum of $20 million but probably $50 million, that is equivalent to $175 million today. Saiqa, the pro Syrian wing of the PLO were identified with the Banca di Roma thefts and marxist Democratic Front for the Liberation of Palestine was deemed responsible for the theft of the BBME. At one point a fire fight broke out between the two factions as Saiqa tried to steal the DFLP loot.
The Saheka & Palestinians attack Damour, 1976 The Saheka & Palestinians entered most of the Christian housesin Damour. The victory of the Palestinians & The Syrian-formed Saheka Guerrillas for killing and destroying the town of Damour Destroying, looting and burning all Christian homes Families thrown out with their babies and burning all the houses. Syrians went in their plans hoping to create a sectarian strife among the Lebanese in order to distract the attention to their invasion of the country. He was captured by Saheka & Palestinians and executed him in front of his family in the next Beirut 1976 started to be divided East & West
December 6, 1975 Satruday The assassination of four young Phalangists on the Fanar road provoked horrible killings in the streets of Beirut. The capital was rapidly set ablaze. It was the apocalypse. Militias launched street fights resulting in tens of innocent victims. Violence was at its peek and nothing seemed to end this thirst for blood. January 18, 1976 Saturday Karantina massacre Christian forces conquered Karantina, a slum district populated primarily by poor Kurds and Armenians but controlled by a PLO detachment. More than 1000 civilians were massacred. (January 1976) The Syrian formed and sponsored groups(Yarmouk & Sai'qa) attacking Damour city and massacring its residents, 582 were killed The Syrian-formed Saheka Guerrillas attacked the Christian town of Damour on January 21, 1976
On September 10, 1975, Syrian-formed Saheka forces attacked the village of Der Ashash, in Northern Lebanon, killing three priests and causing its residents to flee. The following day, Saheka forces and guerrillas from the Syrian Baath Party attacked the village of Bet Mallat killing seven of its residents and kidnapping 10 others. On October 9, 1975 Saheka forces attacked the Lebanese village of Tal Abbas in Akkar killing 15 people and injuring many others. The local church was set on fire with the hope of igniting religious strife between the residents.
Those 400.000 palestinians unwelcomed guests in lebanon are very well welcomed, like any one who lives abroad, dear. The Lebanese gov had,have and will not deal with them because they are not his problem. Yasser Arafat is the man in charge of them and he wanted them to be segregated in ghettoes and forbidden to have proper jobs, study or travel. Why ??? yea WHY ??? Go ask him. He wanted them to suffer so he can fight back and return. So lady stop it and get real. Lebanon recieved them with oen hart and gave them a chance to new start, Arafat did screw up a big time.Its not their fault its him to blame not the lebanese. Check how they live in syria, do they dare to do what they do in Lebanon ???? The Lebanese army wouldnt stand 2 hours against israeli army, ofcourse BUT we dont want to fight the Israelis, never Lebanon was at war with Israel. We are not so stupid and we love to live in peace and our peace was broken because of palestinians and syrians who think they can beat Israel.
They are doing what they have to do...just like the IDF....the terrorism is the problem. If the Arabs and Jews can stop letting other world powers dictate and enable the violence then they can have control over their own destiny. US and GB would not like it too much if Israel and other Arab governments (not extremists) fomented terror in their back yard.
its strange how some people draw comparisons between an army targeting terrorist vs an army attacking palestinians ... understand the facts before making a comparisin between the israeli and palestinian issue against what is happening in lebanon ... the lebanese army was attacked by a terrorist organisation hiding behind palestinian refugees in lebanon ... its very simple, the army is trying to root them out with minimal casualties!
The palestinians are not our problem but the problem of israel. We will not allow them to have lebanese citizenship because lebanon is already small for its citizens. They must be allowed to back their homes in israel and palestine or to other arab countries like jordan. To those who are trying to compare the lebanese actions agaisnt terrorist with the israeli military ones, rest sure that lebanese don't intentionally target civilians like israelese do. The terrorists are hiding within the civilians and are taking htem as human shields. Lebanese authority will not just stand there allowing the terrorist to plot on attacks in beirut and other cities.
Guys,UK, EU, US & of course israel, you are the last one who can speak about human rights. If you want to know what is the problem in the MEA, read your history and you will find out. We, Lebanese, are not the one who started WWI and WWII and killed in total 70 M people including 6M jews, we are not the one responsible of Korea, Vietnam, Irak etc wars. And of course, we are not the one who kicked the jews out of europe and offered them a land that belongs to palestinians who were obliged to leave their country. So the 400.000 pals, will go back to their only home, and you guys have to assume your stupid actions since 1948. Then, we can talk about peace.Criticizing Leb Army, is the max of hypocrisy, especially that Pal civilians casualties are very few comparing to the number of our martyrs soldiers and of the terrorist, and the problem is that you believe yourself and your leaders...check what the IDF is doing everyday and then send your comment...
This level of hatery and racism is just unbelievable....poor you
When Israel uses tanks against Palestinians it is always called 'disproportionate' and there are endless condemnations from the U.N, Red Cross, Amnesty International and the west. So why can Lebanon use tanks against the Palestinians?
You're an idiot! It's you & people like you that are responsible for this' You justify the wrong and try to blame the just. Rot in hell & let (your part of) London burn!
I agree with you. Peace in Lebanon is way overdue & a lot of people there who deserve it. Unfortunately, there's a long way to go. No peace tell Hizbo is gone & the only way to get rid of a venomous snake pit like that is to burn it out. That not gonna happen cause the world won't let you & I'm afraid your leaders are no different from the Israeli's. That means a lot of innocents will die in the future. Good luck though.
Stay tuned for the next report from Fantasyland.
Is the Israeli-Palestinian conflict the ONLY think they study????
400.000 palestinians have been leaving in lebanon for 60 years and still are treated as unwelcomed guests, segregated in ghettoes and forbidden to have proper jobs, study or travel. They are kept in poverty and isolation. Their treatment by lebanese governments is a disgrace and now the most incapable army of the middle east is punding thousands of civilians to hit a handful of terrorists. The lebanese army wouldnt stand 2 hours against israeli army so it takes revenge for its incapability against civilians. If lebanon allows palestinians to get citizenship and freedom and economic independence there wouldnt be these sort of problems.
I can tell you guys that Kim Ghattas has changed her tune regarding bombing houses. When Israel retaliated against the Airport in last summer first day she was using harsher language than now when houses have being shelled in the first 2 days. The BBC is without a doubt being made to say certain things in certain countries and choosing biased reporters.
Joe, are you saying that the root cause of all problems in the middle east is Arabs? Or are they the Palestinians? Because I thought the Jews were the root cause of all problems in the ME according to the way Lebanese talk. Mind you, you may just have a point. I reckon the ME should be bulldozed to make way for a new super mall for all the eastern European.
kill one another - and other non-Arab as well - in resolving disputes? Can't Arab talk? Can't Muslims interact verbally in resolving disputes?
the lebanese seem to know how to deal with the pal terrorists. imagine the outcry had israel done the same? where are those putrid leftist brits now? to busy attacking jewish academics? at least the lebanese won't be hindered.
About time Lebanon joins the civilized world. Thanks to its budding army that took over the southern part from Hezballah after the July war and now (finally) addressing the root cause of all problems in the middle east. My full support and respect for the professional army of Lebanon and its mission to clean up Lebanon and resetablish Lebanon as a peaceful nation.
Who will criticise the Lebanese Army for performing another Sabra and Shatila on the poor defenceless people who are cooped up without sufficient weapons to protect them . Maybe Israel can deliver as a humanitarian gesture?
Where is theplestinian media-machine now?