Jewish S. African minister slams critics of invitation to Hamas PM

Ronnie Kasrils accuses others of being myopic for objecting to Palestinian Prime Minister Ismail Haniyeh's proposed visit to South Africa. Yet it seems that Ronnie is so myopic himself that he fails to see that you cannot compare Nelson Mandela, or even P.W. Botha, with the Hamas Prime Minsiter. Ronnie Kasrils is no friend of Israel and we in South Africa could happily do without him. When Israelis feel frustrated and hopeless about their leaders - take heart - you could have Ronnie Kasrils as Intelligence Minsiter!

You all have forgotten 1 fact. In the early 90's all white South Africans first had to vote yes or no to give De Klerk a mandate to negociate on "our behalf". Mandela was furious but he allowed the poll to go ahead. 90% of all voting white south africans went to the polls and over 70% said yes we want change and we nominate De Klerk to negociate on our behalf. Then CODESA began with a few more years of negociating our constitution we have today. The other famous names in those negociations was Kasrils, Mandela, Ramaphoza, Sexwale, Hani and others. The difference was that the then ANC knew that the "white" South Africans wanted change. This also helped to humble them into realizing that the privalaged few also wanted a new South Africa. Our road and future as a country still remains very rocky with many obstacles to cross, but the final basic point that the ANC fought for was basic human rights, equality before the law and thats that. Love your neighbour

So, if the Palestinians simply stop their attacks on Israelis, then all will be good? And what if Israel does not stop her attacks on Palestinians? Perhaps you did not know that it is Israel who refuses to accept the concept of a ceasefire in the West Bank. I wish it were as easy as you make it out. Not that I disagree. The Palestinians should stop their attacks, and for the most part they have, except for those silly qassams. The Israelis should stop their death squad operations that always seems to kill a few civillians each time. As for the al aksa intifaddeh, it is quite silly for you to say it was a response to the "talks in 2000". Silly may be an understatement. We had 7 years (93-2000)of fruitless talks with the Israelis and during that time, they literally doubled the settler population. I think it is fair to say, an explosion was immenent. Take care and continue your efforts in seeking the truth.

2 times i tried to respond to you, but it wasnt published. therefore i just say that i got your response. thank you so much.

Kasrils is a great man who understood very well that belonging to a specific ethnic or religious group should not necessarily mean blindly defending this group. A great BRAVO for him who understood the importance of human dignity !!!

ation camps,so that "Hitler's heart would melt" He was a hypocrite,whose trips in a "3'd class carriage,with ordinary people" costed a fortune,because of necessity of having a lots of Secret Service agents placed among these "ordinary people" Also his insistence to drinking "fresh goat milk every morning" costed the Indians a bundle-whole herds of goats were transported together with him all around India on his state trips.

and israel helds discussions with fatah (abbas) although fatah's al-aksa-martyr-brigades continue to attack israel. so, what do you want? by the way: also the palestinians have to make major concessions in case of an agreement, for example accepting the state of israel, giving up "great palestine". probably therefore hamas doesnt want to talk....

of course i'm familiar to the "labeling". however, why do you give in by explaining yourself? your words speak for you, such you dont have to make clear something. concerning the mideast talks there's a simple solution, in my opinion: palestinians just have to stop their attacks on israel, whether kassams, (attempted) suicide attacks, shootings, throwing stones and so on (by the way: here in germany somebody who throw stones at somebody else, gets punished, since it's not this harmless but can cause also death). why dont they simply stop it and make the test? why do you demand always from israel to make tests, for example opening checkpoints and so on? something else concerning talks: in 2000 there've been big talks - what was the palestinian response? yes, indeed, the so called al-aksa intifada. therefore you should understand that israel is sceptical about talks now and looks first of all after her own security.

Sort of a hypocrite it seems. And when he was here I don't suppose he spoke to Israelis, spit spit. No he compares us to Nazis and those who would kill us to redeemers.

UPDATED ON: FRIDAY, MAY 04, 2007 21:57 MECCA TIME, 18:57 GMT Azeris jailed for 'insulting Islam' The skyline of Baku, the capital of Azerbaijan, reflects the country's mix of modernity and tradition [EPA] A court in Azerbaijan has jailed two journalists for writing and printing a newspaper article that was critical of the Islamic religion and the Prophet Muhammad. Samir Sadagatoglu, chief editor of the Senet weekly newspaper, was sentenced to four years in prison on Friday, while Rafik Tagi, a journalist at the paper, was given three years. The court ruled that their article 'Europe and us' was insulting to Islam and Muslims for saying that European societies were more successful than Muslim ones because Christian teachings were based on peace and tolerance while Islamic values, based on the teachings and actions of Muhammad, were not ---- MAUREEN ANN The Freedom lover where are you?

mickey mouse...a mickey mouse-like character is making regular appearances on hamas' al-aqza tv to teach children that islam will dominate the world.the character takes every opportunity to indoctrinate young viewers with teachings of islamic supremacy, hatred of israel and the us and support of resistance-the palestinian euphemism for terror......encourage children to be suicide bombers??????a toddler wearing suicide bomber's uniform??????

Israel was conceived by the Jewish people, members of a people, a civilization, and the UN has recognized the right of the Jewish people to its own nation-state. Yet, you refuse to accept its right to exist, and then you come here to an Israeli site as a guest to tell us who we are and what we should not be, citizens of our own state. Shame on you, an Irishman telling us about our rights.

As Hamas celebrated their election (?) victory, a representative of the Chinese "communist" government was doing the talking on CNN in fluent Arabic... Did you ever hear any "friends of Israel" from abroad speaking fluent Hebrew? As Arnold Schwartzenegger, our Austrian (ex)Terminator celebrated his "Total Recall" election (?) in California, CNN celebrated and displayed "Es Ist Die Wirkschaft." When Bush visited Auschwitz he said, "History shows us what is possible." Seven years ago Bush - another "friend of Israel" - said during a Republican primary, "if elected, I'll go after America's internal terrorists." Begin to see the forest from the trees of deception. There is no "war on terror" but a(nother) Illuminati Skull and Bones war on Judaism and on Israel. We are on the brink of Shoah2.

in Mark Twain's words: "If the statistics are right, the Jews constitute but one percent of the human race. It suggests a nebulous dim puff of stardust lost in the blaze of the milky Way. Properly the Jew ought hardly to be heard of, but he is heard of, has always been heard of. He is as prominent on the planet as any other people, and his commercial importance is extravagantly out of proportion to the smallness of his bulk. His contributions to the world's list of great names in literature, science, art, music, finance, medicine, and obtuse learning are also way out of proportion to the weakness in his numbers. He has made a marvelous fight in this world in all the ages, and he has done it with his hands tied behind his back. He could be vain of himself and be excused for it. The Egyptians, the Babylonians, and the Persians rose, filled the planet with sound and splendor, and faded to dream stuff and passed away. The Greeks and the Romans followed and made a vast noise and they are gone. Other peoples have sprung up and held their torch high for a time. But it burned out, and they sit in twilight now, or have vanished. The Jew saw them all. Beat them all, and is now what he always was, exhibiting no decadence, no infirmities of age, no weakening of his parts, no slowing of his energies, no dulling of his alert and aggressive mind. All things are mortal but the Jew. All other forces pass, but he remains." Baruch Hashem

I assume that "Kasrils is not a self-hating Jew - he just doesn`t like Israel`s occupation of Palestine because it is just like Apartheid". Does he like Arab occupation of Israel that Hanieh wants because it will just like a "final solution"?

matter to you.?

the South African guy whom Gandhi crossed swords (!) with during his struggle for the rights of indentured labour in South Africa.This was prior to 1915. The nice friendly guy you saw in the Attenborough film Gandhi was not the real Jan Smuts, a horrible racist.

Barak to get Arafat to sign an agreement which would give Israel land deep into Palestinian territory, and would divide the West Bank into multiple disconnected enclaves, and offered land swaps that were neither equal in size nor value. See Robert Malley, key American negotiator in New York Review of Books(9 August 2001,13 June 2002,27 June 2002). To Arafat's eternal credit he did not sign on the dotted line.And by the way he did not start the second intifada.That was the provocation that Israelis started up with Ariel Sharon's deliberate walk about in the Muslim holy place. For an authentic account read Ramzy Baroud's The Second Intifada.

The sad trueth is that for sins of the bandists and gansters you named hundreds of thausends of decent and innocent jewish people have perished. The Trotsky's, Kaganovich's, Kun's etc were fighting for the utopian and foreign for jews cause. In the end most of them were killed by their "brothers" in arms. The russian proverb said: The dog shall die like a dog.

The ones she sees as healthy,open,freedom loving,freedom of speech,non-racist Middle Eastern Arab democracies. You haven't a clue about how well,things are going in Israel but then again you make sure your "education" keeps you that way. Why don't you read "Because They Hate": A Survivor of Islamic Terror Warns America (Hardcover) by Brigitte Gabriel -a Christian from Lebanon. Maybe you do not care about Islamofascist attacks on Christians?Remember when Islamofascists killed Christians after the cartoons or when the Pope spoke out? Pure racist intolerance nothing less.

Or Arab apartheid against say the Kurds? Why was that?

maybe Israel should begin arming the Kashmiri freedom fighters then? You big hypocrite!! Give up Kashmir then you talk about others.Typical, trying to be radical far from home so you wont have to pay any price for your glory mongering as a super chic and really cool leftist, while everything stays nice and cozy at home right?

The only anti apartheid party in parliment was the lone Liberal party MP from Cape Town elected with the large support of the Jews in that region.Also nelson mandela has said that overall South african jews exhibited a more Liberal and humane attitude towards Africans than others.They might not have been "perfect" but it easy to talk from New York were you are seated on throne of "The Mighty self appointed Judge of jewish Souls" where you "reign" in arrogance and hate.

What you say is of course very true.However I think it fair to say that the ANC could have been much much worse, they tried to hold to a certain standard which of course slips in time of war.The tactics of their enemy was also vicious.Overall it could have been much worse.

"Martin Luther King wrote that those who criticize zionism are actually critizing Jews,and equated this criticism to anti-semitism." I'm intrigued. Where is this written?

South Africa was a unique situation and it is tiring to constantly hear parallels made to every other situyation thugh unrelated. The jew who will sell out other jews in order to curry favour with the gentiles is nothing new either, and neither is Ronnie Kasril or Roseanne Barr. South Africa's ANC has a history of solidarity with the left and therefore they will defend everything related to it including, ridiculously, Mugabe.

The ANC has not always been a "highly moral organisation". The military wing (MK) was formed in 1979 and carried out car bombings and other attacks. While they allegedly did not target civilians per se, the choice of method made civilian casualties inevitable. The ratio of civilian to security force casualties in many of their attacks is unknown. In particular, the Church Street bombing was carried out during rush hour. This has all been documented by the Truth and Reconciliation Committee. The ANC also openly acknowledges having run prison camps in Angola where detainees endured torture, forced labor, and crowded, suffocating, filthy conditions.

Good job with the olive branch(s) - I counted 2. You'll probably get one in return. smart kath. Now get your butt over to the why-so=few-good-women-in-Israeli-politics board and post something. Or did you become a total turncoat? I know the tempter tosefta is irresistable (just sucking up here for still bigger head (in the vain hope that there'll be all the more to pucncture later, perhaps?)). Well, let's face it - Israel is really behind the times on these issues. The big girls are coming to town big time (it's OK even with Segolene. There's a first time for everything. That she even got this far in french politics - notoriously sexist over-praised good-old-lover-boys clubbists that they are - is an accomplishment). PS bad news, really bad. I just figured out how to make my posts 45% longer (gevalt!!). Trial and error. Of course, no free lunch - there are trade-offs.

Michael O., "The Liebermans and the Eitams are a marginal element in Israeli politics, unlike the Hamas leadership, and when cooler, saner heads prevail among the Palestinians, the those marginal elements in Israel will disappear too." Inshallah. Peace. Steve

but do you know anything about the Palestinian struggle ? Your comments show that you don't.I suggest that you acquaint yourself with the facts rather than repeat Israeli propaganda. Re: Nelson Mandela, he was exiled for how many years ? And what about the armed struggle of ANC? At the time when the international community was working to impose divestment, disinvestment and boycotts,to support the struggle in South Africa these same Israeli propagandists were supporting the whites of South Africa.Now, they are piously trying to damn the Palestinian struggle as 'terrorist' and praising Mandela and ANC. whom they formerly called terrorists. Mr. Kasrils is doing exactly the right thing any decent person who supports liberation struggles would do.Glad that he is not listening to the real racists and war mongers.

Have you suddenly seen the light or are you being facetious. Do tell us if you are now keeping Shabbat,eating Kosher,putting on Tefillin,Davening with a minyan three times a day,giving 10% of your income to charities and spending several hours a day studying Talmud etc. Or as much more likely anything that can be thrown at Israel is fair game never mind who it represents.

Kasrils is not a self-hating Jew - he just doesn't like Israel's occupation of Palestine because it is just like Apartheid. He should know.

Martin Luther King wrote that those who criticize zionism are actually critizing Jews,and equated this criticism to anti-semitism.Mr.King went further to say that Jews have been the subject of an ongoing,and historical,effort by romans etc..to eradicate Jews from their lands.To have a South African minister speak in favour of Hamas,and criticize Israel,is just another example of how low humanity can stoop.Every time a "Jew"irrationally and inappropriately criticies Israel,it is a victory for enemies of Jews and just another "day" Jews,as we are used to being the subject of hatefully inspired attacks,even when it is by "another Jew".This is not the first and will not be the last Jew to unjustifiably attack Jews.Norman Finklestein,is another example of a Jew who attacks Jews without any intelligence or rationale worthy of a "scholar". Martin Luther King was the worlds most prolific,selfsacrifing,moral,leader,and he was also a black man.He knew the truth about the "promised land".

Mandela has also compared Israeli rule in Palestine to Apartheid. Never a hater? He certainly hated Apartheid.

Did you boycott Apartheid South Africa or do only Jews matter to you?

every possible anti Israel statement. The stand large numbers of Jews took against apartheid is well known. Some Jews had to leave because they were warned they would have an "accident" if they continued.

You have to be kiding or did you forget to take your medicine. Jews in Europr forced to leave property money behind as they entered the ovens. The people that survived and went back to claim what was theirs killed. Or better They had no death certificates proving the parents etc had an insurance policy. Like the Jews they had to leave ther property as they fled from the ARab nations. They had lived both in Europe and Middle East for generations. Now you really dont hate Jews . If you do dont give family polio vaccine mri, use cell phones in case of emergency and dont shop in closed malls. You see Jewish brain power gave you this What have you done for the world.

Your society is like a dying limb on a healthy tree - a sick little apartheid society that is dragging the Middle East into a forever deeper conflict! Take note Kath, Condi has cancelled her trip to Israel because of Israel's political infighting. Even Israel's partner in crime are giving up on Israel!

The so called "offer"never happened.go to Robert Malley on the net.He was Clinton's special assistant at camp David.

If so their support for Hamas is only natural.

You really must get in the habit of informing yourself on the subject you pontificate about Tosefta for once again we have glaring errors in your "rendition" of reality.Though the ANC was called terrorist in fact they were not ,while the group you call freedom fighters ,Hamas is.The ANC debated the tactics to be used (see Mandelas biography) and determined that attacks against civilians were, immoral, would hurt their cause, would make negotiating a future deal with the whites all the more difficult.Your attempt to whitewash Hamas by associating it with the ANC( a highly moral organisation -you could learn from them on that) doesnt hold water at.The two were totaly different organisations.This invitation is an attempt by south africa to show an international presence and be "the voice of africa in international affairs) though the ANC does feel a closeness with the Palestinian cause,their invitation of Hamas is blatant influence mongering ,callous and arrogant.But thats why you like it

Can you imagine the greeting? "Hello son of a pig or ape. "??? Isn't that what their religious leaders call us ? As for Ronnie he is, I believe the expression in yiddish for your american readers is " schmuck".

Mandela has never said the stuff Kasrils uses to enhance his credentials amongst the Arabs and "progressives". The lynch mob atmosphere at the hijacked Durban UN Conference a couple of years ago showed the way. Needless to say the UN Human rights commission became a farce condemned even by Annan.

with weapons was Palme's speciality. The same way as he had used his position as a UN-appointed "peace negotiator" between Pakistan and India to sell Bofors guns to boh sides. If you love Hamas so much,go ahead,kiss them like your Neturei Karta rabbi Weiss did with Ahmedinadjad. You could become another rabbi Hirsh,appointed by Arafat as his "Specialist for Jewish Affairs" Some people never learn,"Talmudical Mind" Tosefta-Hirsh.

God seems to have seen it differently. He sent us into exile because we were sinning against his religion. Just ask the Sutmar Rebbe what he thinks.

who are abraham's seeds? according to most definitions, a jew is either born into the jewish people,or becomes one through religious conversion.and according to the Word of God,in galatians 3:29 and if ye be Christ's,then are ye abraham's seed, and heirs according to the promise.....we,true christians still believe that legitimate[literal] seeds of abraham are the descendants of isaac/jacob.and that [palestine]modern israel belongs to them as God has promised.

Moslem vigilantes carry out "justice" on drug dealers(keeps down the competition) Mugabe the murderous thug survives with at least tacit support. The leadership does very nicely and has now become effectively become a one party state. Shades of a future Islamic Republic of Palestine. Haniyeh should feel very much at home.

If the peace you advocate is the one described in the Hamas charter then I hope for eternal war, because it would be better for all true peace loving people. PLease read their charter. Its truly racist and disgusting. They have alot in common with the Apartheid government that existed in SA, but they are openly calling for killing of Jews in addition to discrimination of us.

This is black and white. Hamas charter calls for killing Jews. IF you welcome Hamas you are a racist too. IF you are Jewish and welcome Hamas you are a self hating Jew. It doesnt get much clearer than that. I am boycotting any country, their products and people, that officially welcomes Hamas and encouraging everyone I know to do the same.

SA has never forgiven Israel for having close ties with the white regime during the apartheid era.Israel and SA were in very sim ilar situations....isolated in the world.The fact that many other countries had ties with white SA doesn't seem to bother SA ....only Israel seems to be singled out.In addition you have a slef hating Jew who bends over backwards to please the Palestinians .SA would be much more respected if it did more close to home in Zimbabwe where a lunatic dictator has ruined the country and persecuted the whites....that doesn't seem to bother Umbeke much.

now as the emperor realizes he is almost totally naked, losing 1 item of clothing for every country speaking out against this nonsense, the naysayers become more and more hateful, even attacking their own right minded brethren. The mask has come off amongst naysayer Jews, who do not represent those Jews not agreeing with what the most vocal amongst them are saying and doing. They always shout the loudest. Our govt's actions no longer represent good people in the USA either. As they become more desperate in losing support, they will become more hateful in their word and deed, however, God is the author of truth and justice, and they will be rewarded consistent with their deeds and their thoughts. It does not appear God is a part of this for those naysayers, cause if they believed he was, they would trust his defense of the truth of what they are saying and doing and not the IDF, esp those shouting "god gave us the land". High regards. Ballistic.

Out,shame on them.But I am glad you put your good points to that marilyn. She should not only learn about the Jews being a nation,but also a religion.Silly woman you cannot debate points with her.She is purposfully "blinkered" I did say she aught to leave Australia where she is squatting and give it back to the "Aboriginis" if she is honest that is.But she is not,and what is more,she is an "ATHEIST".Personally I don't care whether people are religious.Liberals,atheists,deists, or agnostics.So long as the person leads a decent life.By the way,she should know that NO JUDAISM,THEN NO CHRISTIANITY,and certainly No Islam.Additionally,all a person has to do is just folow the Judaic tenets presented to the Jews by God/The Creator of the Universe and it is:The "Decalogues".Once you adhere to them you are just fine. P/S haaretz please let #51 scalliwag read this. Thank You

"Firstly, the intifaddeh was not launched by Arafat. It was initiated by Ariel Sharon`s provacative visit to the Al Aksa mosque accompanied by 100`s of police and attack helicoptors. Israel killed about 18 civillians that day alone. " This is a blatant lie and you know it. Sharon had the approval of the Wakf for that visit, and the intifada was planned long before camp david took place. That day's event's started when Muslims started throwing rocks down on the heads of Jewish worshippers at the western wall. There were no helocopters accompanying Sharon - they came in after the Muslims went crazy on the Mount. Sharon's visit was the excuse, not the reason. Came old lack of understanding of the cause=effect issue.

"If the Jews would just move back to where they came from, the world would be at peace." Question: So what the hell are you doing on the "black" continent of Africa? Another question: From which location did your family originate? And was their peace in that place after they left? Yes? No?

Israel should realise that the way it acts & thinks is little different to the way the white South African apartheid government acted..

The IRA, Sein Fein held discussions with the Unionist in Northern Ireland. They came to an agreement and talked to one another. The Prostestants have not given up their position on continued union with Great Britain while Sein Fein is still committed to a united Ireland. Hamas has agreed to a long term cease fire and delegated Fatah as the negotiating partner in any negotiations with Israel. The ball is now in Israel's coaurt, but Israel will never agree. If they did, they would be required to make major concessions which they are admantly committed to not doing, in terms of giving up all the WB and East Jerusalem.

Let us know...how many black people are there in the Universities? And white men in prison?? Don't tell me your naif story South Africa!!!

In 2002, Kasrils said in an interview for Al-Ahram that he refused to talk to Israel. His love of "dialogue" is a lie, plain and simple..

I agreed that Helen Sussman was a leader in the anti-apartheid struggle. So were other individual Jews. But this jBoard of Jewish Deputies was dismally silent, mum, complacent in striking out on a moral ground in openly condemning apartheid as a morla evil. Did the major rabbinical leaders come out with the Roman Catholic archbishop and Anglican and call for an end to the apartheid government as a moral outrage? If you claim they did, during the many decades of apartheid, then prove it and dont give me examples of individual Jews, but the representatives of the Jewish religious establishment. Again, the same reason for this silence applies to israel's formal refusal to recognise the Armenian genocide or send representatives to the commemorations by the Aremnians in Israel. Its bad for the Jews-politics trumps morality. That mr edifice is what the vatican says when criticism is levelled against PP XII. He did not do more because he knew it would result in persecution of Catholics.

"well, ibrahim, i dont know why you have to make it clear that you are not a mindless anti-israel person." Are you not familiar with the commonly used tactic of labeling anyone remotely critical of Israel as a racist anti-Semite? You characterize talks between Israel and Palestinians as if they were on an equal footing...but we both know they are not. If the Palestinians want to talk about Palestinian security from Israeli occupation, the talks don't go far at all. Israel wants the PA to act as police for a few months, maybe years...then if there are NO more attacks on Israelis, maybe, just maybe, they will talk about political solutions...in the meantime, they continue to expand settlements. The reality you wish deny is unmistakable: Mahmoud Abbas constantly advocating serious talks on final status issues....and Israel refusing. As for Hamas, they have only been in power for a couple of years (not even)...and the Israelis have been refusing serious talks much longer

You and your brother Kasril's are momzerim. Your parents if they are not asheamed of you are momzers as well. Too bad that this paper is not capable of printing what I trully want to say to you. I believe you both converted and left the jewish faith a long time ago, so both go to hell where the likes of you belong

It is nice to read posts from one of the few reasonable persons on the thread. It is amazing how these zealots gnaw on ANYBOOOOODY, Jewish or not, who doesn't go along with the party line. The modus operandi is they always resort to a personal attack on the person to justify why no mind should be paid to what the person is saying. Lately, any country talking to the Pals is antisemitic, blah, blah. This extends to persons to. It appears that there is a generalized hate for the truth amongst the zealots. What is really telling is that they are gnawing on their own people with differing views. That is rather astounding. Prominent Jews who don't agree with the party line are called "fringe". Golly, no outside force will destroy Israel. She will implode for her intolerance of the principles of truth and justice. A pity really. High regards.

Mr. Zody, do you believe that all Irish Catholics should have a state of their own, free of protestant domination? What is your position on the irish Catholic State, for all Irish Catholics for them to be free of protestant terrorism and hatred?

well, ibrahim, i dont know why you have to make it clear that you are not a mindless anti-israel person. do you think your comments sound like this?... ;-) anyway, 1. i want to say: i think both of us know that there have been many many talks between israel and the pa since many many years, okay, not always on the highest level, but there have been talks. 2. every talk has to start somewhere, and in view of the situation for me it's understandable when the present talks start about security matters. it's also understandable that israel talks only about her security matters since it's the duty of the pa-government to talk about palestinian security matters, not israel's duty. 3. how can there be already final status talks when a part of the present palestinian government doesnt recognize at all the state of israel? i mean, final status talks are about two states, but when one side (hamas) doesnt accept the jewish state, how can there be at all a final status?

I don't know how you can say I don't know what I am talking about when you agree with me. Helen Sussman was not only an outspoken critic of apartheid, she was leader of the progressive party,90% OF WHOSE MEMBERS WERE JEWISH.The SA board of deputies reflected their views. The only thing you can say is that they worked within the framework of the law, but they never condoned apartheid. I know, I lived there.

I find myself constantly educating folks like yourself about the "generous" Camp David Offer in 2000. Firstly, the intifaddeh was not launched by Arafat. It was initiated by Ariel Sharon's provacative visit to the Al Aksa mosque accompanied by 100's of police and attack helicoptors. Israel killed about 18 civillians that day alone. The offer at Camp David was terrible. It left 80% of the settlers in place, along with bypass roads that cut the West Bank into 4 sections and it left the Jordan Valley completely in Israeli hands. Israel was very good at marketting this simplistic narrative that you accepted so readily. Please review the offer at Camp David and the subsequent offer at Taba. Thank you.

"Enough already with the endless parade of South Africans trying condescendingly to impart the wisdom of their own experience to the Middle East. Haniya is not Mandela, Hamas is not the ANC, Israel is not Apartheid South Africa, the Palestinians are not Zulu, and conflict is not a racial conflict between blacks and whites. Hamas is a murderous organization sworn to the destruction of Israel. Its rhetroric is rife with antisemitism and its strategy is the targeting of civilian population. The reason peaceful transition was possible in South Africa is that the blacks had the wisdom to get rid of the more extreme elements and go with a moderate leadership such as the ANC. And those extreme elements were nowhere near as bad as the Hamas. So save us all this sanctimonious crap."

There will always be Jewish cynics or idiots out there. And antisemites and Israel-bashers will certainly use them with glee.

Mr Sullivan still spewing your anti Israel propoganda! The Jews are not just a relgion we are a people. we deserve our own state. Mr sullivan you are against Israel as Jewish state!

Kasrils would be safe ... odds are he'd be kidnapped before anyone could take a shot at him. He and Haniyeh could talk for hours about the similarites between Gaza City and inner Johannesburg.

The sad history of European jews should be a lesson that has to be remembered forever. And I am not talking only about the Holocost. There were always horrific jewish pogroms everywhere in Europe even before Holocost. The lesson is-Jews should care and fight first and formost for jewish causes and that means by and large for Israel. If Israel is secure and prosperrous so will be the world jewry.

In 2000 Camp David conference Israel agreed to make peace by releasing the entire Gaza, 95% of WB plus additional Israeli land to compensate for the 4% and the creation of a Palestinian Arab state with the capitol in East Jerusalem. Arafat turned it down and started the intifada. Israel has been in the past and is now ready to make peace as long as that peace wil not threaten its future existance.

Nobody died during the transition - but many are dying now in the most violent city in the world - Johannesburg.

Guess who's coming to dinner? To bad it ain't Sidney Portier - instead it's an avowed terrorist sworn to destruction of state he won't even recognize. You are not going to have a dialogue with him -he believes all the world's his Waqf. Only our own wicked self-hating son would invite him.

Judaism is the oldest monotheist religion and it is about 5000 years old. Unlike Islam and Christianity Judaism does not wellcome others to convert into Judaism. This is why while younger religions such as Christianity and Islam have billions of followers of many different races there are only about 15 Million Jews around the world and are rather homogenous. Their land of origin is Palestine and their country is Israel which wil stay there forever. Hopefully side by side and in peace with its Arab neighbors.

Tosefta Of course I wasn't inferring the palis should wait 600 years(in point of fact I meant the freedom of Ireland,not the IRA).The IRA was formed over a 100 years ago beginning a bit earlier with Michael Collins.This out of the way,YES they had to compromise because their terror tactics just ran out of steam.And if not?well,the losers would still have been the IRA and not the Britain.That is what I think. Cannot talk to "bird"(bird nesting don't disturb sign outside).I know I sound puerile and beyond your brilliant mind(not kidding)also don't let it go to your 'BIG HED',but I am sticking to my guns.I said you do not have to reply.Will not take offence honestly. (&_&)

Scallywag, first, I want you to understand I am not a mindless anti-Israel person...I have no problem with the existence of a Jewish dominated state and I believe in the two state solution to the conflict (as imperfect as it may be). Now, let me be clear: Bi weekly meetings between Abbas and Olmert started just three weeks ago and Olmert made it very clear the discussions were ONLY on security matters (ie, Israeli security matters, not Palestinian security) and NOTHING on politics or CONFLICT RESOLUTION. I am advocating INTENSIVE final status talks begin NOW and NOT END UNTIL A DEAL IS OUTLINED.

What is it with this bunch that seems to go apoplectic whenever someone criticizes ISRAELI POLICIES? Forget the fact the criticism comes from Jews, there are millions worldwide who are critical of Israeli policies, but the nonsense that follows of branding someone as "anti-semite" or "self-hating Jew" just exposes this bunch as brankrupt as a 3 dollar bill. Let's step back a bit, when Olmert decided to go rambo on Lebanon, critics of Israeli actions were attacked, smeared and all tarred with the "a" label. I take it those on the Winograd commission were all anti-semites too? The report basically repeats the CRITICISM many outside of Israel were saying about Olmert and his disasterous approach. Those critics were labeled as "anti-semites" and the report vindicates them but will that stop the MORONIC ISRAELI APOLOGISTS from using their venomous forked tongue against critics of Israel? Of course not, this bunch is deluded and hypocritical beyond any hope!

"Sweden and SA cooperated militarily and industrially during the Palme Era,i.e. during the Apartheid." - Absolute Sweden "While international opposition to apartheid grew, the Nordic countries in particular provided both moral and financial support for the ANC. On 21 February 1986 ? a week before he was murdered ? Sweden's prime minister Olof Palme made the keynote address to the Swedish People's Parliament Against Apartheid held in Stockholm. In addressing the hundreds of anti-apartheid sympathizers as well as leaders and officials from the ANC and the Anti-Apartheid Movement such as Oliver Tambo, Palme declared: "Apartheid cannot be reformed; it has to be eliminated".. By 1987 Israel found itself alone among the nations in still maintaining strong, even strategic relations with apartheid South Africa. On March 18, 1987 the Inner Cabinet of the Israeli government denounced the Apartheid policy of South Africa and limited Israel's security ties with Pretoria." - Wikipedia I have compared Israel unfavorably to the rest of the world on the issue of Apartheid. But this is a minor point in my post #26. Better not get stuck on the tree and forget the forest, Mr. Absolute. And better yet, don't keep your head above the clouds. The main point was comparing Israel unfavorably in the attitude towards Hamas. Some people learn slowly. I am sure you can sympathize.

I don't believe Kasrils are Jewish. I think their parents converted and the two sob's are cristians or muslems or hell knows who they are. But one thing is certain-they aren't jewish

ibrahim, my dear, israel talks already to abbas, only recently there've been a meeting. didnt you read about it?

Here is the proof. "A South African cabinet minister, who is himself Jewish but also an outspoken critic of Israel"

So then, you do support a state for Irish Catholics, or not?

You dont know what you are talking about. Helen Sussman was indeed an outspoken critic of apartheid, as were many individual SA Jews. The Board of Jewish Deputies during the heyday of apartheid did not follow heer lead, any more than Israel has in condemning the Aremnian genocide and for the same reason: It's not good for the Jews. Self interest trumps morality. Ironic that the SA Board of Deputies would prbably be more than ready to jump on the bandwagon condemning Pope Pius XII for faults they themselves are guilty of.

An enemy of Jews and of Israel. He does not recognize the 'illegitmate and apartheid' nation of Israel. He rejects Israel as a homeland for Jews in effect saying Jews have no right to Israel. Of the recent Lebanese war he writes: 'We feel sorrow for those who died under rocket fire in Israel. But we do not blame Hizbullah or Palestinian resistance any more than we blamed South Africa liberation forces when civilians died.' He founded 'Not In My Name in South Africa'. This South African communist is the secular side of the Neturei Karta coin.

The Jewish religion is predicated on a "National Identity" as a people. "G-d did not make this covenant with our fathers, but with us-- who are all here alive today" (Deut: 5:3) A nation without a homeland is an oxymoron, a contradiction. It would thus not be unreasonable to call your brother a "Self-Hating Jew", a pariah among his people.

arily and industrially during the Palme Era,i.e. during the Apartheid. South African G6 haubitz,probably the best in the world at the time bears an uncanny resemblance to Bofors guns. South African mining industry was totally dependent on Swedish drilling tools. So go on dunking your own country and comparing it unfavorably with..whom exactly,poor Tosefta?

This doesen't suprise me at all. Why shoulden't the South African (Kasrils and cohorts) invite Hamas. After all the SA Govt. does nothing about the extreme levels of murder and crime in their own country. A Government that is apathetic to murder and crime in it's own back yard would have the same policy abroad!!

"Since becoming Palestinian prime minister in March 2006, Haniyeh has visited Arab states, some Gulf states and Iran, but he has not travelled beyond that." Didn't Haniyeh visit Russia?

I wonder if as many Jews read Arab newspapers, as Arabs read ours? Does it not say something about the quality of our journalism that these scum have to come to us for enlighhtenment? Indeed, we are, and will always be, a light unto the nations. Ronnie-baby, eat your heart out, you play for the losing team!

"Israel was instrumental in the formation of Hamas" is a common myth among anti-Israeli circles. I could never quite understand the rationale: If Israel really helped the Hamas and Hamas then turned against it and started slaughtering its people, is it more reason for Israel to cooperate with Hamas now? I think it's quite the contrary. But in truth, nothing of the sort had happened. The extent of Israel's assistance to the Hamas was in allowing it to open youth clubs in the Gaza strip, at a time when it was just an Islamic social movement. The thinking was to get young people off the streets and into some framework and hope that they will not turn into violence as an outlet. That took place in the late 70's, years before Hamas wrote its charter and became a terror organization. As to the boycott on S. Africa, first, it was far from being world-wide, and Israel was far from being the only one who defied it. Second, if you put all your efforts into isolating a country, you can hardly blame it for looking for allies wherever it can find them.

Kathy, I don't derive any pleasure from these exchanges and suggest you conduct them with like-minded people. According to you, one should wait 600 years with the Palestinians. (Actually, the IRA was formed less than 100 years ago.) and what about this: "The IRA did not get the six counties back as wished,remember that ole chum. S/A is not comparable to Israel and stop muddying the waters." Do you mean that the IRA was willing to compromise during the peace talks? Gee, how awful. Can't happen! Better talk to the Bird. I am stationed in reality. o(~_~)o

On the contrary, I reject everything that has to do with Self Righteousness. The Palestinians are a highly imperfect people, just like everyone else. It is clear within the Palestinian community we have our rejectionists who refuse to acknowledge Israel. It is also clear we have a large percentage of the population supportive of a two state solution, we have an elected president who condemns in no uncertain terms the use of violence, and we have an Israeli state that belittles and ignores him... ....knowingly feeding the mouths of extremism. I am sorry to put a little more onus on Israel, but Israel holds about 99.9999% balance of power. With power, comes responsibility. Once Israel gets off the soapbox, rejects violence as they demand of the Palestinians, I believe both peoples can coexist with a warm peace treaty. (ok, lukewarm for starters).

"the Europeans are willing to accept Hamas once they show by their actions that they accept Israel as a state and stop their terror activity. (Hamas will stop once Israel agrees to extend the cease fire to the West Bank, which it is not willing to do.)" - Tosefta Hamas says that they will stop any military activity once the cease fire is extended. That is what they say. And they want during that time to have Abbas negotiate with Israel about the 67 borders and refugees. At this point Hamas only promises a long term hudna after Israel goes back to the 67 borders. But one has to use common sense to project what will actually happen. In any case, my post discusses the present short term fire exchanges.

agree that Israel does have the right to eixst, or do you stick to your old Irish Catholic attitude towards us, the Jews, and you still do not think we deserve our own state?

"ibrahim, tell this also the hamas, after all hamas has refused again and again to talk to israel, pardon: "the zionist entity"!" Scallywagger, Perhaps you have forgotten: Hamas was elected in parliment elections less than 2 years ago. Israel has been refusing to negotiate since 2000. First the excuse was "Arafat". Then, it was "Abbas is too weak". Now, it happens to be Hamas. Tomorrow, who knows? I say it again: Negotiate with the President of the PA (Abbas). Get an agreement in principle out there, circulating among both peoples, then SQUASH the rejectionists on both sides.

Get your facts straight. The most outspoken member of parliament against apartheid was the leader of the Progessive Party, Helen Suzman, a Jewess. The South African Jewish Board of deputies closely followed her lead and were also outspoken critics of apartheid.

Good news, Elvis. We Jews did indeed go back where we came from. As for pillorying our "insistence" on having a country, I am afraid it is not us, but international law that you must destroy, if that is your true interest. Start with the line about peoples having the right to self-determination, the cornerstone of international law. If you can have this concept removed then, sure, Israel and Armenia and Greece and Turkey and Sweden and Finland and all of the other nation-states can be picked off one by one, and the corresponding peoples will no longer be able to insist on their rights. Until then, sorry, "Elvis". You may be mad that we Jews stand up and assert our rights. You may wish we would shrink into a corner and just, well, go away. But the fact is, that we did exactly what international law says we should. We went back home.

You're absolutely correct. "The Liebermans and Eitams of the world depend on the Haniyehs and Nasrallahs for their own legitimacy." Unfortunately there is no symmetry here. Destroying Israel and replacing it by an Islamic state has been the central policy of Hamas from the day its charter was written 19 years ago, it has not been altered by any peace agreements or by Israel's efforts at creating a dialogue, and Hamas leaders continue to call for it regularly. The Liebermans and the Eitams are a marginal element in Israeli politics, unlike the Hamas leadership, and when cooler, saner heads prevail among the Palestinians, the those marginal elements in Israel will disappear too.

Tosefta Are you awake,or still half asleep?You mentioned the IRA as an example.How ridiculous that is.The Irish had been fighting and waited for 600 years for the talks you that have materialized with the British,and they still have much to offer before you can feel joyfool. They will have to show if it will continue in its present form.The IRA did not get the six counties back as wished,remember that ole chum. S/A is not comparable to Israel and stop muddying the waters.That Israel was friendly with the "Apartheid"regime is another matter,and taking into concideration although they were concidered a terror "org"they unlike the Palis,did not strap bombs aroung their waists to murder innocent civilians in order to gain their objective.That they were communists I have no doubt. You,methinks have a communistic tendencies,if I err,then I apologize.But suspicion is there sorry to say... P/S yes,I forgot the "ears"on the "smily"

says it will do. Hamas says they will reject any and all recognition of Israel, or the very existence of the Jewish State.

KASRILS HAS A GOAL IN HIS LIFE, IT'S TO BLAME ISAREL FOR ALL THE PROBLEMS IN THE MIDDLE EAST,NOT ONCE HAS THE HEAD OF SECURITY FOR SOUTH AFRICA EVEN MENTIONED THE BANKRUPT GOVERNMENT OF MUGABE AND HIS GANG OF KILLERS,MYSTERIOUSLY THE SHUL IN BULAWAYO, ZIMBABWE'S SECOND CITY WAS BURNED TO THE GROUND A COUPLE OF YEARS AGO,HAVING BEING INVITED TO BE AT THE SERVICE WITH THE CHIEF RABBI OF SOUTH AFRICA AT THE BURNT OUT SHUL, HE QUICKLY CAME BACK AND SAID THAT HE WOULD NOT ATTEND, THIS ANTISEMITE KEEPS THE COMPANY OF GEORGE GALLOWAY, THE RACIST ANTISEMITE MP OF ENGLAND,IT'S A NO WIN SITUATION FOR ISRAEL AND THE JEWS OF SOUTH AFRICA,THIS MAN WILL EVENTUALLY PASS AWAY AND ISRAEL WILL ALWAYS BE THERE, AM YISROEL CHAI.

christianity and islam are religions, too, and nevertheless they have their states where they can live according to their religions, e. g. here in germany, christmas and easter are holidays. why dont you demand from these christian and muslim states to get with the program? all of them conquered land some time, you in australia, too. marilyn, give your land back and leave your neighbours alone.

"haniyah can help provide useful arab and iranian contacts to aid" - in the big business between south african as big uranium supplier and iran/arab countries as those who are eager to get the uranium. in my opinion that's the background of the meeting, not peace as you -and your (fake) brother- want to make us believe.

I found this on a South African website: South Africa's economy, employment & crime rates were better when the world hated us and we had civil strife

yes, you are right, i forgot that mandela and arafat have something in commong: both were members of a terrorist gang and both got the peace nobel prize. strange combination. if it goes on like this some day also haniyeh will get the peace nobel prize! by the way: i dont say that "the" palestinians are bad guys.

Gene Not only these Jews you mentioned but the whole establishment at the time,beginning with mandela,the slovos,susmans and many others all were and probably still are:Communists PERIOD! Haniyeh and the invitation?What a joke,I hope they keep him there for good and never to return.Thanks to Kasrils or however you spell his damn name...................

This is the 21st century and all those old religions should be allowed to die a natural death. Judaism is a religion for heaven's sake. It is not a specific race of people. Will Israel for everyone's sake get with the program, give the land back and leave the neighbours alone.

If you are the son of the above who is not a self hating Jew(which I for one don't give a hoot if he is or not)But that he only dislikes Israel and tells the Jews to leave Israel and go back to where they came from?You are a fool! If this is not a joke,I suggest you push off from South Africa/Pretoria and move to where you came from.As you are just squatting there like the man called Kasrils. YOU ARE A LAUGH A MINUTE HAHAHAHAHAHA.........

I think a visit to South Africa will be a very good experience for Ismail Haniyeh and for as many members of Hamas as possible. South Africa's non-racist, non-sexist inclusive human rights culture offers a good model for a Palestinian state. South Africa has a democratc constitution which guarantees the rights of different languages, racial equality, gender equality and equality for gays and lesbians. It also has a very strong constitutional court. This might be an interesting contrast to some of the other countries he has visited.

SJF, Remember that Israel defied the world wide boycott of Apartheid S. Africa and Israel was instrumental in the formation of Hamas. They originally promoted Hamas as an opponent to the PLO. Hamas has become the classic Golem fairy tale. So in a way you are right Israel has been in bed with both Apartheid S. Africa and Hamas. Peace. Steve

jews had an exceptional record in the fight against apartheid. helen suzman, albie sacks, joe slovo etc. and many others. the jewish board of deputies did apologise for being passive in the apartheid era. my opinion is that they were not at fault, they did not promote apartheid they just complied with the law and they were a jewish organization looking out for jewish interests. they did not popurt to be a liberation movement or a political movement. the view of the current board of deputies is understandable, a gut reaction to an organization that has commited horrible terror attacks. if the jewish minister is trying to change them from a terror organization to a political organization by dialogue it is just a different tactic from the israeli government trying to change hamas by assasination and boycott. the latter has not been sucessful to date, the former approach still needs to show results.

African, Instead only thousands dies during the S.African transition. Peace. Steve

Johnny The whole of the South African's fighters against "Apartheid"were communists,Mandela Joe Slovo,and many more.That this Kasril was at the Water Department in Johanesburg at the time,yes quite possible.And thus he came up from the ranks to his present employ.That the "rat"Arafat entertained this person Shapiro is no surprise.He has had close relationship with Uri Avnery and constant visits we all know. I had better stop here before I resort to explitives.Aren't they all so very chummy with those B......S!I woul get rid of their lot and dismiss them from our society forthwith.Disgusting absolutely!He is inviting Haniyeh fine,let him go and never return as far as the Israelis are concerned.Good riddance and make certain to CLOSE THE DOORS TIGHT SHUT! That is my take on this tale........

Michael, It sounds like you have forgotten most of the S.African conflict. The ANC was a very extremist group. Many (not all) in their group advocated evicting all of the white people from S. Africa by force. Cooler, Saner heads prevailed. In S.Africa, eventually, the extremists from both sides were marginalized. That didn't happen BEFORE discussions and negotiations. Discussions and negotiations were a vital element in marginalizing those groups. Of course the problem for you is that both extremes were marginalized which means as the Hamas extremist are weeded out so will be your Lieberman group. The Liebermans and Eitams of the world depend on the Haniyehs and Nasrallahs for their own legitimacy. It will never work to marginalize only one. They both must be seen for the extremist bigots that they are. Peace. Steve

When Botha met with Mandela, Mandela was associated with the ANC which was considered by the S. African government a terrorist organization. THe ANC if fact conducted violent resistance to the apartheid policies of the S.African government. Whether in retrospect the actions of the ANC were terrorist or "legitimate resistance to occupation" is a subjective determination. That depends entirely on who one defines as the "good guys" or the "bad guys." THat will change depending on who you ask. YOu have obviously defined yourself as the good guys and the Palestinians as the bad guys. Third parties cannot be caught up in those emotional designations. They are antithetical to a solution. A more logical and less emotional approach is always more conducive to resolving conflict. Peace. Steve

ibrahim, tell this also the hamas, after all hamas has refused again and again to talk to israel, pardon: "the zionist entity"!

how peaceful palestinians are we can see every day when they fight each other and israel, too! how much peace there's nowadays in south africa we can also see in view of all the crimes and murders which happen there day and night.

what a soap box.... but didnt know whether to laugh or cry at yr ignorance...so arabs are peaceful... go tell that to black africans who have suffered at the hands of arabs...ever heard of Darfur ? ever heard of slavery ?

what a twisted man you are ... you really showed your true feelings towards jews in this post... your "concern" for the pals is soooo genuine, just as much as yr concern for the Darfuri, sahawi, ahwaz, congolese, somalis etc you been posting anywhere ref any of the above ? LOL... you are an exposed fraud

Dont worry this oak is mull

You are correct to say that dialogue is necessary for progress. And we should blame the Olmert government that this is one of its many failings. But it takes two to coexist peacefully. No matter how much dialogue Israel (or its government, really) engages in, it will not be enough without real progress - that goes beyond dialogue into actions - from the Palestinian side as well. But to paraphrase you: the "it's all Palestine" crowd clings to worn out excuses and only wants the conflict to continue until Israel is eliminated. The contingent of Palestinians (PA leaders, really) who share that attitude leave little room for good-faith negotiation. In short, while you blame only "Israel-firsters" in post #21; by now, there is plenty of blame to go around. And more than enough self-righteous soapboxes the freedom-of-speech, press, and-religion-denying HAMAS/PA needs to get off, too.

Kasrils is performing as he shoud-a minister in the government of South Africa. As for the opposition from the Board of Deputies, where was this same boared during the decades of apartheid? Where was their voice in opposition to apartheid? Where was the official Jewish response to this system of inhumanity. It was nowhere to be heard. Don't rock the boat, it might be bad for the Jews. So political expedience triumphed over morality and the Jewish establishment played along with the system. What rank hypocracy for them now to come out and with this chatisement of Kasrils. The have no moral ground to stand on since they react only out of self interest.

The Jewish community of South Africa enjoyed the benefits of aparthied and now they love Hamas, which itself wants an aparthied state, so they are being consistent.

Kasrils has a company: Trotsky, Kaganovich, Bela Kun, etc

Kasrils, take your fat white ass somewhere else and stop insulting the peaceful people of South Africa. If we were anything like Haniya and his Palestinian Hamas, millions would have died during the South African transition!

South Africa is very close to the Palestinians since the days of Yasser Arafat supporting their struggle against Apartheid. (Israel for a long time cooperated with the White regime.) The South Africans know that the ANC was considered a terror organization, and believe that terrorism was a necessary means for their cause. They understand Hamas and sympathize with its struggle for national liberation. They also know that recently Britain talked with terrorist IRA, had a peace agreement produced, and that the deal is working fine. South Africa and Israel are in the two extremes of the spectrum in dealing with Hamas. The rest of the world is in between. Israel not only will not speak to Hamas until it disarms (see roadmap), but also considers every member of the PA government as tainted for their participation. The rest of the world speaks to non-Hamas ministers. Indeed, the Europeans are willing to accept Hamas once they show by their actions that they accept Israel as a state and stop their terror activity. (Hamas will stop once Israel agrees to extend the cease fire to the West Bank, which it is not willing to do.)

response to 1: it's kasrils himself who likes to play his "jewish card" in these situations. response to 11: why dont you mention that hamas doesnt want to speak to israel, that hamas hates the dialogue with israel, pardon: "the zionist entity"?

Would he have welcomed an Israeli Prime Minister? I doubt it... Anyways, our mistake in trying to be nice with who has only hate to offer us is a pricy one. Hopefully the day will come when Jews realize they are a nation. The rest of the world (specially the anti-semites) has realized this a long time ago. This guy may rest assured that the day Iran, Hizbollah and Hamas follow their promise of attacking Jewish targets throughout the world they will not remember this "generous" and "righteous" act, he will be a prime target for being a "filthy Jew" in a visible public post.

You must be kidding ? Is Haniyah "final solutions" ideas similar to Hitler? If you stay here you die ?

kasril compares his invitation to haniyeh with the meeting of botha and mandela. following this logic i come to the conclusion that mandela is -like haniyeh- member of a terrorist gang. that's indeed interesting! thanks, kasrils, for giving this enlightment!

Without DIALOGUE, there can never be progress towards a peaceful solution. At some point, Israel needs to get off her self righteous soapbox and talk with the Palestinians. The South African Minister is correct. The Israel-First crowd clings to worn out excuses and only wants the conflict to continue long enough for Israel to expand her territory.

All you die hard pro israelis are living in cloud cuckoo land. What Ronnie Kasrils is saying is abosolutely true. Israel is digging its own grave. But in the meantime many Palestinians and Israelis will die. A lot can be learned from the South Africans. They led the struggle where today blacks, whites and asians live in peace. There will be those (africaaner)in South Africa and (zionists) in Israel who at every cost want to disrupt peace. Palestinians like Africans are peaceful people. They want peaceful results. But if that is denied than arms struggle is the only other option. Thats how Africa was liberated from colonialism. God Bless Africa, Amandla, Maybuiya iya Africa, An injury to one is an injury to all.

2 things 1. "Haniyeh can promote a final solution" Where have we heard this line before ?? 2. "If the Jews would just move back to where they came from" - Idiot we are already at home in Israel

The author of email #2 is clearly trying to be provocative. Readers, always examine the facts!

...one wonders what good it has brought that Botha met Mandela and that de Klerk considered Mandela as a partner in negotiations.

Enough already with the endless parade of South Africans trying condescendingly to impart the wisdom of their own experience to the Middle East. Haniya is not Mandela, Hamas is not the ANC, Israel is not Apartheid South Africa, the Palestinians are not Zulu, and conflict is not a racial conflict between blacks and whites. Hamas is a murderous organization sworn to the destruction of Israel. Its rhetroric is rife with antisemitism and its strategy is the targeting of civilian population. The reason peaceful transition was possible in South Africa is that the blacks had the wisdom to get rid of the more extreme elements and go with a moderate leadership such as the ANC. And those extreme elements were nowhere near as bad as the Hamas. So save us all this sanctimonious crap.

Haniyeh should never be a welcome guest in any country.

Jews have moved back to where they came from, it is called Israel. the land between the river Jordan and the Mediteranean. Now if all the Muslims would move back to where they belong (Jordan the real Palestine, Syria, Lebanon, Egypt) the world would be at peace. But, you want them to go back to Morocco, Algeria, Tunisia, Lybia, Egypt, Syria, Iraq, Iran, Yemen, Hmmmmm Maybe, they should go claim Saudi Arabia as Their land and get rid of Mecca as the Muslims Holy site. Elvis next time you make a comment make sure you make sense.

open yr eyes Michael.... has kasrils ever condemned the arabs for anything, anywhere in m.east and n.africa ?

Not many agrees that the worst enemy of Jews in this world are some politicians in Israel, who hate dialogue who want to see all opportunities of dialogue are closed. What Kasrils is trying to do can work much than IDF

If so - from his perspective - the dialogue has been successful.

If a black US minister would have invited Botha to visit the US not only would have been stressed his skin tone, but there would have been mass black riots and a sort of internal revolution. You see, some actions are not the same if done by different people. Unfortunately in this case there is only a mild protest.

Whats the difference between Kasrils and someone like Shimon Peres, who openly hugged Arafat and his ilk. Lets not forget that Arafat is responsible for the death of far more Jews than Haniyeh. As an ex South African I am ashamed of Kasrils, as an Israeli I am ashamed of both of them, but as a Jew they both sicken me with their self-hatred

Ronnie and elvis kasrils feel they have the need to be more left wing then the most ardent socialists. I can see why they would invite the iranians as they seem to share the same view that israel should not exist. Yet for ronnie and elvis to claim that israelis are threating the existence of the jewish people show how ignorant they are as they have totaly forgot the lessons of the holocaust and what happened to the jewish people when they never had a homeland. Mr kasrils i am sure you had some relatives or family like all south african jews who perished in the Holocust the only diffrence with the rest of us is that yours are turning in their graves at your despicable behaviour.

All white people from Africa should go back and relocate to where they came from. All white people from Alaska to Antarctica should be relocated too. All Muslims should be relocated out of Europe. Circumstantially, if you would like to relocate the Jews to the place they were expelled from, that would be... hmmm Israel?

if kasrils was israeli he would be considered a politician with a different view point and probably has thousands of loyal israelis who agree with his view. this is strength for israeli society, diversity of opinion and also one of the advantages of being a jew in your own country. us jews in the galut are very sensitive to opinions that are not mainstream current israeli policy. we are reluctant to criticize any israeli policy for fear of endangering the viability of the jewish state. it is a tribute to jews that kasrils saw the unjustness of apartheid and was willing to risk his life to fight this injustice. one should not be surprised that he sees injustice in the current palestinian situation as do thousands of loyal israelis.

Im sick and tired of my brother being criticzed for being a self hating Jew. He doesnt hate himself or his family. He just hates Isralis who are endagering the Jewish people by their stubborn insistance on having their own country. If the Jews would just move back to where they came from, the world would be at peace. Haniyah can help provide useful Arab and Iranian contacts to aid in the resettlement of Israili Jews to other countries

My father-in-law, now deceased, traveled to South Africa some twelve or thirteen years ago, in order to assist his relatives to transfer their money away from there. I remember that he told me about Joe Slovo being a leading Jewish Marxist-Leninist. Somehow I remember that he mentioned also the name of Ronnie Kasrils; however, I think that Kasrils was with the Water Department in Johannesberg. In any event, what is surprising about this article about Ismail Haniyeh. After all, didn't the late Yasser Arafat have a house guest from the United States named Shapiro?

Why say Jewish south African minister, and not south African minister. Is it a problem just because he is jewish? what is he was not jewish? If the problem is invitation to Hamas, then it does not matter who slams the critics, whether black or white minister, ethiest or catholic. Stop this kind of jewish word politics