Israeli, Syrian representatives reach secret understandings

I'm reading a book about the six day war,and it's the same thing as now!All the Angry Arabs and the whinning of this and that which starts the war. Palestine is always the main topic/Isarel...They are trying to find a plug against God...No wonder they can't speak right!And they say "the ones speak right are the fearful ones."

Teichworld is full of facts and other relevant information JB must ignore for his fantasy to work. "Armistice ended the Korean War", it isn't officially ended. That's why there are all the troops, armament, mines, etc. "First World War", the Armistice ended the fighting, not the war. The war didn't officially end until the Treaty of Versailles, signed 7 months later. "how is that relevant?" It's somehow not relevant that they didn't withdraw unilaterally and that they still have a presence? "Kinneret" is at the South end of the Heights, and the Mandate went further north, onto the Heights. More importantly, as you asked, how is that relevant? "are" so no you qualify to "training" rather than the existing pointing? Sorry, puppy, "are" is still correct. "not who started that war.." on that we agree, you just won't join reality and admit it's your terrorist buddies who started the war.

DT: "no, an armistice was signed." David, the 1948-49 war ended in 1949. Just as an Armistice ended the Korean War, and an Armistice ended the First World War. I understand that you can not werap your head around this, Teichie, but that is your problem and not mine. DT: "Only because int`l pressure kicked `em out of Lebanon." And this is relevent, how, exactly? DT: "No, puppy. Only part of the heights is Syrian. There was an int`l border on the heights" No, dummy. The Mandate border extended 10 meters from Lake Kinneret i.e. all of the Golan Heights is inside Syria. DT: "Again, grammar problems. That`s 'are'." No, actually, David; I was referring to the respective military training of 2007. It's 2008 now, David, so "were" is correct, and "are" is not. DT: "The Allies.." Another irrelent Point Of Order; the argument is who is holding the gun to whose head AFTER a war ended, not who started that war... A Straw Man argument, as you so often attempt.

"war ended", no, an armistice was signed. That JB can't accept int'l law, just invents his own world, is nothing new. "Last year Syrian troops trained. On Syrian soil". Only because int'l pressure kicked 'em out of Lebanon. "Last year Isreali troops trained. On Syrian soil." Yup, yet the Syrians claim they won't end the war they declared unless they get Israeli soil. "Which is Syrian sovereign territory". No, puppy. Only part of the heights is Syrian. There was an int'l border on the heights. "But it`s SYRIA who were pointing..." Again, grammar problems. That's "are". "Even tho it is Israel who is the occupying power, and not Syria...." Ahh, The Allies occupied Japan, Italy and Germany. I guess that means the Allies started the war, 'eh? Keep tap-dancing. It's the only way for you to avoid reality. There've been dancing bears, why not dancing puppies?

DT: "Of course they are. They`ve declared war, they have troops, artillery, aircraft and missiles aimed at Israel." The 1948-9 war ended, Teichie, in 1949. That's why its the war of 1948-49, and not the war of 1948-2008. Syria have troops, and those troops are trained to fight Israelis? Well, gosh, David, Israel have troops, and those troops are trained to fight Syria. Only difference is this: Last year Syrian troops trained. On Syrian soil. Last year Isreali troops trained. On Syrian soil. There was a lovely photo in Haaretz at the time, showing Israeli Merkava tanks and Apache helicopters. All undergoing trainig maneouvres in the Golan Heights. Which is Syrian sovereign territory, not Israeli sovereign territory. But it's SYRIA who were pointing the gun at Israel, says the Sage Of Teichworld. Even tho it is Israel who is the occupying power, and not Syria...... Laughable indeed, requiring a remarkable ability to deny what is objective reality.

"Syria are not pointing a gun at Israel." Of course they are. They've declared war, they have troops, artillery, aircraft and missiles aimed at Israel. They have their proxies actively shooting. Of course, "pointing" is another word the ESL bereft puppy misunderstands. "*negotiated* return of the Golan." Nope, they've said they want all the Golan, up to the armistice line, as part of complete peace negotiations. That JB is confused about what's being negotiated is, again, no surprise. "Res 242 only gives ISRAEL that right". Notice that nobody except JB claims that. Notice, also, that Syria's not negotiating for part of the Golan, but demanding all the Golan as part of peace negotiations. Also, JB fails to show why the int'l borders aren't "secure" for both parties. Also, note how he's dropped the "ceded", "captured" and multiple choice arguments, as even his tiny brain knows he can't defend them. Careful, JB, your ignorance is showing.

DT: " 'Ceded' at the point of a gun" Syria are not pointing a gun at Israel, David, and has been signalling for the last few years that they want a *negotiated* return of the Golan to their keeping. Go and read Resolution 242, sonny. Every zionist insists that Res 242 gives ISRAEL the right to demand some land be ceded to her in exchange for "a just and lasting peace". YOU have alwas insist that this is so, and repeat that assertion in many talkback posts. Funny, though, how Res 242 only gives ISRAEL that right; when anyone else (ahem, say, SYRIA) put forward the same argument, WELL!!, That's Bloogy Aggression, That Is! Careful, Teichie, your hypocrisy is showing....

382: "Ceded" at the point of a gun. Kind of the same way JB ignores the redrawing of the borders of Germany, Poland and Russia. Most importantly, the tangent doesn't obviate the point that Syria was created as a nation, whole cloth, but Europeans. "Golan was CAPTURED by Israel", no, only the portion north of the int'l border. Between that and the armistice line, Israel LIBERATED Gaza. 387: "It is anti-semitism to demand that int`l law be respected?" Nope, it's antisemitic to ignore int'l law only when discussing Israel. "question", poor puppy, the answer's: c) By responding to Syria's violations of the armistice agreement. As usual, JB invents a world that ignores reality in order to claim his ignorance must be true. "Syria is DEMANDING an IDF withdrawal", while Syria: 1) Is still in a SoW declared against Israel 2) Openly supports terrorists who regularly attack Israel 3) Say that if they don't get exactly what the demand, they won't stop the fighting. JB, loopy as ever.

then it must be good for the Jews!!!

DT: "Notice all the antisemites who lie about Israel not having a right to any land East of the armistice line during a defensive war." It is anti-semitism to demand that int'l law be respected? DT: "They`re all supporting a Syrian demand for Israel to withdraw to the armistice line " Note: this is a Syrian NEGOTIATING DEMAND, not a Syrian MILITARY OFFENSIVE. A question for David: Israel made the Syrians withdraw in 1967; did they do so by: (a) Demanding that the Syrian Army withdraw before they will sign any treaty? or by (b) launching a military offensive? A 50:50 choice, David. I imagine you'll get it wrong..... DT: "Israel can`t gain land through defense but Syria can gain land through aggression." REGAIN land THROUGH diplomacy.... Israel FORCED a Syrian withdrawal in 1967 by using military FORCE. Syria is DEMANDING an IDF withdrawal as a part of its diplomacy. Compare and Contrast.....

Oh Clickfool how ignorant you are. Have you not heard the sayings "silence is golden" and "Fools go where angels fear to tread" You really are that fool. Jacob wrestled with an angel of Esau not G-D and that the angel had to agree to give a blessing n order to be released back before dawn for the morning ritual praises. However, you are either an atheist or agnostic so none of this means anything to you. If you believe in the big bang theory that's your loss but it explains a lot about you. If you really believe we are here by chance then its no wonder you have no concept of good and evil. Bottom line is Israel will prevail with or without peace, it'll just be a lot nicer if our neighbours understood the value of peace

Israel gains a big strategic advantage by keeping the Golan? Yeah, and.....? Nations can't simply *STEAL* land off another country because it suits them. Nations can't simply *STEAL* land off another country because it is better for the thief to have it than it is for the victim to have it. That thinking went out the window at the end of the 19th century. If Israel believes it is in mortal danger from Syrian then, yes, it is possible for her to justify occupying the Golan *until* that mortal danger is past. But nobody but a paranoid would suggest that Syria is currently posing a mortal danger to Israel. Quite the reverse; Syria wants to cut a deal for the Golan rather than fight over it. Israel would be crazy not to take that deal, because the end result of such a refusal *will* be war. Because Israel will have left Assad with no other choice but to try and take back by force what he can not get back by negotiation. And the fault will lie with Israel.

D: "Syria was created by the British and French in the 1920`s from land they captured from the Ottoman empire during WWI." No. The land was CEDED by the Ottoman's (the Turks, actually) at the Treaty of Lausanne. If there had been no treaty then the land would have remained "occupied", not "Mandate Territory". D: "The Golan became Israli in the same manner in 1967." No. The Golan was CAPTURED by Israel. The Syrians never CEDED it. Absent such an agreement then the land has remained what it was on June 10 1967; Syran land under an Israeli OCCUPATION. D: "Why should Syria have any claim to it at all?" Sovereignty was granted to her by the French Mandatory upon independence. You can not seize sovereignty from a sovereign, tho you can try to demand that they CEDE sovereignty to you. D: "Perhaps Turkey should claim it from two wars ago." No. She CEDED her sovereignty in the Treaty of Lausanne. She can't now claim "oops, my mistake!"

What they demand and do. The Syrians: 1) Declared war against Israel's existence 2) Waged that war 3) Openly supports terrorist proxies in that war 4) Demand their aggression be rewarded with the armistice line, not the int'l border being made the border. There's no indication Syria's doing anything other than the typical Islamic hudna. Not until we see the full text of any peace agreement can anyone say differently than what Syria regularly says and does. That is, not unless they're ignorant fools or openly Jew hating bigots.

Notice all the antisemites who lie about Israel not having a right to any land East of the armistice line during a defensive war. They're all supporting a Syrian demand for Israel to withdraw to the armistice line rather than the formal border between Syria and the Mandate. Israel can't gain land through defense but Syria can gain land through aggression. They're ready to reward aggression and, sadly, Olmert, the great panderer, is busy helping them.

Almost too good to be true! Next will be the ligitimacy of Hamas and then an agreement with Lebanon, Hizbullah included! Maybe we should talk to our enemies. If lives are saved and peace agreements are achieved then maybe, just maybe, the Middle East can become the forefront for the much needed World Peace! Are you listening Muslum radical extremist terrorist insurgents! Lets get it done, but don't forget about Abbas and the Pals in the West Bank. Keep dangling the carrot stick and eventually they will bite it.

not a hope in hell !!!!! dleusional story !

Israel can simple lease the land from Syria for a period of 50 years while stating clearly that the land is sovereign Syrian territory from Day One. This is similar to the deal the England and China made over Hong Kong where it was 99 Years. 15 years is way too short a period of time to trust Syria - a non-democratic dictatorship where any new regime can simply tear up the agreement at their choosing. Hopefully, within 50 years, there will be a democratic regime in Damascus.

It's not April 1st is it? If true this could be really good news. I'm certain that an large majority of Israelis will support this deal.

Apart from the clear operational advantage that the Golan?s topography provides the IDF, the intelligence gathering value of the area ? particularly the ridge of hills on its eastern fringes and from atop Mt. Hermon (aptly dubbed ?the eyes of the country?) is indispensable. There is wide agreement among experts that it would be difficult, if not impossible, to find adequate substitute to compensate for the loss of the intelligence installations stationed there. Nowadays, the Golan is an integrated region of Israel : http://israelagainstterror.blogspot.com/2008/04/golan-heights-geography-geology-and.html

They need to get closer ties with Iran. Israel is so afraid of Iran, willing to actually bend, if one is to believe these reports( highly doubtful). First of all, Syria will never abandon Hizbullah, the Palestinians are one thing, even Iran might be a possibility, but to abandon Hizbullah is not in the cards, period. It should be noted, the Golan is not the BIG prize Syria is after: it wants Lebanon. If these reports are true, Syria did a masterful job of obtaining one of it's goals without firing a shot. It let Hizbullah and Hamas do all the work. You have to give it to the Syrians for cold blooded calculations. They played circles around Israel for 40 years supporting attacks while not themselves firing a single shot to liberate the Golan? And finally Israel hands it to Assad on a silver platter. That's Arab tenacity and true politik at it's best. The Iran alliance seems to have served it's purpose. The support of groups resisting Israel did as well. We shall see.

The deal seems to be that Syria gives up all support of Hamas and Hizbollah immediately and also "distances" itself from Iran immediately, and, in exchange, Israel gives up partial control of the Golan spaced out over 5 - 15 years. There is a chronic problem with these deals where Israel is paid in full up front and, in exchange, Israel contributes its part of the deal over a period of many years. All Israel is seeking is a temporary calming of the home front in order that they might attack Iran without complication. If there is any squeak from Syria, Hamas, or Hizbollah during this coming war, then Israel would declare the agreement null and void even before they began to withdraw from the Golan. If there is no squeak from Syria but there is from Hizbollah (you can count on this), then Israel would declare that Syria was acting through Hizbollah and, once again, cancel the agreement. To be successful, Israel should withdraw over a period of one year or two at the most.

The syrians can not be trusted. Peace would be good but bringing the lines right up to the Kinneret is stupid. The lines should be further up allowing for defensive sheild. Things change, Assad is not around forever.

While peace is truly wanted, returning to lines that allow for no defensive stragegy is sheer stupidity.

Hard to see why Syria would do this unless the Sunni world has been leaning on it hard, behind the scenes. Syria never wanted peace. why would a minority military regime want peace?

Denial is not just a River in Egypt, it is a sick mentality in Arab countries. But, there is hope in coming out of it. Please! 4,000 years ago Jews lived in Palestine, the land G-d gave to Jews. Palestine is the name given by the Romans to Jewish people before Arab prophet Mohammed time. Only 300 years ago Arab prophet Mohammed appeared. Who was there first? The Jews were there first, in their own land. Yr 600 Arabs from the Arabian neighboring countries, emigrated illegally & occupied Jews land & also occupied the holiest Jewish place, Temple Mount in Jerusalem, where Arabs built Dom of rock & El Aqsa mosques. Who are the illegal occupiers? The Arabs are illegal occupiers of the land. We all know that Arabs? most sacred place is in Mecca, Saudi Arabia, the only place Arabs turn to face when they pray. To be hones Arabs should return to their ancestral Arab countries. In 1947 the UN resolution partitioned Palestine between the Arabs & the Jews. The Jewish people rename their partitio

you jews give that golan away and you are dead. see how that works, my Israeli friends? no real offer stinks like this trash does. I can only love you, Israel, if you are alive. K.I.S.S.

are ridiculous. they show quite clearly how a large percentage of Israeli society is quite literally insane. One would expect an optimistic, even if cautious, response to the potential for a peace built on reason, pragmatism, creative solutions, and respect for each adversary. Instead, many of you speak like the fanatical religio-racists that you truly are. What rubbish. No wonder you never have peace.

The only word right now,that,should show everyone whom to believe=sederot!Good hoten/bad hoten,is a logical way,to dissect the chaos!Look at,Iraq's Sdr city,israel sederot and Gaza etc...

It was all political not legalized etc...You should never,ever trust your enemy!Their is no way,Syria will,stop supporting Hizbollah!Read,the book of Daniel etc...

Let me assure Israel that her Zionist fabrications regarding some secret agreement between it andSyria will never wash. Israel is adept at using political psycho;ogy in order to drive wedges between solid friends and countries and nations. Israeli lies are legion. This one needs to be burried with the rest.

Dear Ken. Sryia have every interest in peace and no one want Israel in the sea. When are we going to stop this insanity. No one is perfect and everyone have fanatic. Fanatic is like bacteria, when you make peace is like having the meat in the freezer, it take long time to go bad but if you leave the situation like it is now is like leaving a a peace of meat at 100 degree temperature, it will rot and will have very bad smell until everyone is sick. Let put the fanatic in the freezer and lets make peace. Peace with Syria mean end of the threat from Lebanon, Syria and a pressure in Hamas to make peace. Three birds with one stone. No brainer.

Syria should give up land to Israel. As should Jordan, Lebanon, etc. Israel has a right to all of the land promised to Abraham. Syria only want Israel to give up the Golan Heights because it is a strategic military zone. As long as it is controlled by Israel, Syria cannot carry out their true desires...to drive Israel into the sea.

oh great, lets give them even more land than they already have..why don't why just give them Jerusalem and Tel-Aviv, and why not Haifa and Eilat also?? Maybe then they will be happy, oh wait no...there would still be Jews alive and they can't have that, how unfortunate, no?

I just cannot believe that people are buying this garbage. Lets look at what has happened already. In EVERY CASE, when the Israeli's give up land, it is only occupied by terrorists. Gaza pullout: within days rockets were being fored from it and the violence continues to this day. West Bank pullout (all of them): every time the land is immediately occupied by Hamas or PLO fighters and there are suicide bomobings and the destruction of Jewish and Christian holy sites. Lebanon pullout: south Labanon was almost immediately occupied by Hizbullah, creating a "state within a state", and almost immediately there are huge hate rallies against Israel and the West, there are assasinations, cross-border raids by Hizbullah, rocket attacks, kidnappings, etc. When people, especially these hard-line regimes in the Arab world say they want peace, they seldom mean it, and it usually ends up in a "re-arming" of the terror groups. I guarantee that Syria will not stop funding attacks on Israel.

I hope this story is true. It is the best news I have heard for a long time. It is about time that some sort of understanding is reached in the Arab/Israeli conflict so that the people can start rebuilding instead of destroying. Arab Israeli cooperation can creat one of the best places to live in on this Globe.

Why the need to give anything to Syria? They're a loser country without the Golan. Why give them the ability to threaten us? If they don't like embargos etc. let THEM make peace!!! period. I find it outrageous that the US and Israel have to give in, in any way at all in order that THEY should want peace!! If they don't like it let assad's government go to...

What you're saying about Arafat not being given a good offer is a complete lie. Arafat was offered 95% of actual Gaza and West Bank and the remaining 5% was to be given from Israel's territory. In addition he was offered East Jerusalem, full recognition, trade, joint business zones, assistance from both Americans and Israel etc. Arafat betrayed Palestinians by rejecting these proposals because he never had any intentions to negotiate. He was too busy stealing millions of dollars from Palestnian hospitals and schools while feeding lies that the West, and Clinton, wanted to hear. He never really wanted to be a president of a state because that meant taking responsibility for everything that happens, stopping the incredible corruption etc. He preferred to blame Israel and ask for more money. He was just a common theif,who was hiding behind a political facade. Arafat blew the best opportunity Palestinians had.Hamas is doing the same by continuing to reject peace,as Iran orders them.

To continue my point that I support Israel because its a beacon of what Lebanon, specifically, and other countries in the Middle East could be - prosperous, democratic, progressive with world-class sciense, culture, social life and tourism. Its a different vision from that of Hezbollah or Hamas -regression, isolationism,rejection and conflict. Learn to think independently, Elias, stop repeating like a parakeet only what you hear in East Jerusalem. Regarding your other misstaments of facts. During the civil war in Lebanon everyone murdered each other.Palestinians murdered Christians ((Damour massacre (January 1976)). Phalangists who were by the way, at that time supported by Syria murdered Palestinians - Tel al-Zaatar Massacre (August 1976), Karantina Massacre (January 1976). So don't make a fool of yourself and preach to me about Lebanese civil war. I know a lot more about it than you. There should be one army and government in Lebanon, not that of Hezbollah and other Iranian agents.

Sorry, but I have to make it quick, Jacob Blues, Thanks for your responses, I agree to disagree with you on (almost) all points, but never mind, life goes on and I am going on a nice holiday trip today. So you can enjoy Haaretz talback without lamenting Swiss-Dino for a (short) while. Stay safe in your "Big Apple"...

We may share a name and relgion but you know nothing about Lebanon. You blame its diversity for its problems? Its precisely the strength of Lebanon and what makes it unique. For generations it was precisely that what made Lebanese culture and society prosperous until Islamist fanatics as well as Christian ones started fighting each other. Currently it is precisly Hezbollah and its traitor allies (Aoun) who are changing the make up of Lebanon, pushing out Christians and Sunni and replacing them with Hezbollah supporters. Here is a link http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3351829,00.html Sounds like you're not capable of comprehending what I wrote. I never blamed Islam for the problems in Lebanon but the people who twist it to serve its political and ideological purposes. In fact in Quran, there are many passages supporting Israel as a jewish state. Look up this link www.arabsforisrael.com for information. I support Israel because I value its contribution to ME.

To me, this is a terrible waste of precious time. Does it make sense to deal with monsters? Come to an agreement? Give up the Golan, a buffer for enemy attacks? Time and time again, Israel gives up terratories....What has the Arab offered us, besides lies, broken promises, and constant attacks on Jews. This is the monster we want to sign a treaty with?????? Doesn't anyone remember that Muslims don't honor agreements with "infidels"?? History ever repeats itself and this time, nothing will be any better then the last....how many...promise! During this last treaty, the Arabs took the time to lob missles into Israel, while still having time to bring in arms into Gaza, from Egypt. If, everytime you put your head out of the door, someone hits you with a brick, why would you open the door?????????

to the world's stability. Has the hate for Israel and anyone supporting Israel's right to exist in peace completely blocked the blood flow to your brain?How can you compare Mossad's hunt for the murderers of their innocent athletes in '72 with the daily terrorism inspired and planned by the Iranian Revolutionary Guard.These thugs use Iranian diplomatic mission abroad to channel money to terrorists,provide them with material support and training,and direct their attacks. We've seen in Lebanon, Argentina, Gaza and we see it daily in Iraq.Iran IS the cause of instability in the world not only by its support for the global terrorist network but also by holding the world hostage with oil prices. Ahmadinejad/Chavez - Hitler/Mussolini of our times, brothers in hate,instability,and defenders of the most evil Jihadist ideology. Lebanon is the modern day Czechoslovakia when the West tried to appease Hitler by giving him Sudetenland. Giving up Lebanese democracy, as imperfect as it is, to Hezbollah will encourage Iran.

Michael - I couldn't agree with you more and I had the same reaction you had. Makes me really wonder about the veracity of this report. Something about the way this article was written just does not ring true to me as well.

"Between 1948 and 1967, Syria had heavy artillery with ranges up to 20 Km. positioned on the Golan Heights" - of course, on its own that brings a big "Yawn". Israeli artillery is currently ranged on Damascus from those same locations, and Israel is One Of The Good Guys. "and was shelling the northern quarter of Israel on a daily basis" - yes, THAT is more serious accusation. What is the extent of that "northern quarter"? How much of that was in the DMZ? Which, of course, leads to... "without provocation" - I beg to differ. The initial confrontations came about because of a series of ISRAELI attacks on Syrian dams and water diversions in 1965. And you obviously haven't heard Moshe Dayan's oft-repeated statement that all of the Syrian artillery fire *was* deliberately provoked, under an Israeli plan to justify redeployment into the DMZ. He should know, Jeff, he ordered it.

is this a test?? very funny, alawiites are shiites, so ha ha ha Akiva. I thought we were supposed to be smart - why isn't anyone getting the joke here?????

I was replying specifically to Bruriah Sarah's post #268. SHE was the one crying that the sky would fall should a "hostile country" use the Golan to FLOOD (her word, not mind) into the defenseless Israeli heartland. And her evidence that just such a hostile country was poised to FLOOD into the Israeli heartland? Well HER evidence (not mine) was that Syria spent 19 years taking pot-shots at little Israeli kiddies in kibbutzim in the Hula Valley. That was not MY claim - nor MY evidence - despite what you apparently think. They were HERS. I was merely pointing out that there is a massive disconnect between what she was claiming and the evidence she presented to support her claim. If ya' got a complaint about it, post it to her, not to me.

Arafat's West Bank was cut up into 3 cantons. Settlements like Maale Adinumim which are already illegal would be annexed to Jerusalem, Jerusalem all of it would have been Israel's, Israel would annex 10 percent of the settlements for 80 percent of the settlers, Israel would control all Palestinian borders including airspace, Israel would control the Jordan Valley, and no talk about refugees would even be weighed. Come on now you want Arafat to accept that? Arafat was the closest Israel ever came to peace, but they low balled him, as many of Clinton's advisors including the Jewish Aaron Miller noted. But no problem, keep stealing west bank land, the only solution left is one state, equal rights for all.

I understand the anymosity Lebanon has towards Syria. But if Syria wants to move forward with peace and regaining it's territory, then they have that right. Quit blaming Syria for all of Lebanon's woes. The reality is that your country Lebanon is diverse, and this alone is the cause of your problems. As far as villifying Islam, you're a moron. I'm a Christian Palestinian living in a predominantly Islamic area. I and many generations of my family have lived quite well. So stop with your Philangist agenda. DOn't you forget your terrorist Philange not only murdered Muslims in Lebanon, but they murdered many Palestinians NOT DISTINGUISHING BETWEEN CHRISTIAN AND MUSLIM PALESTINIAN REFUGEES! LONG LIVE THE PALESTINIAN QUEST FOR JUSTICE!

If what the corresponded says is true this zone is demilitarized, meaning both Syrian and Israeli forces have a substantial gap between themselves and the other side. Israelis are allowed to use these lands, so anybody with a cell phone who manages to see a Katyusha rocket can call it in. Assad is giving up a fair bit of territory, Israel can still use the water in the area, and Assad is wanting to distance himself from that nutjob Ahmadinejad and Iran's lunatics. To me, this all seems pretty smart, and it seems like Israel really isn't giving up all that much. In return, they don't get shot at by Syrians and hopefully the Hezbollah terrorism ceases. Sounds pretty good from this perspective. Israel did agree to terms with Egypt, what is the problem with getting a deal with Syria? Hell, it was Menachem Begin who gave back the Sinai to get such a deal. This sounds rather better.

Right, if Golan Highs will turn into a park, whay Syrians insisting on this piece of land. It is a matter of honour that they lost the war. To get the G.H. by peace efforts wil not change the records in the history. Only important record is: in 1973 the unit Hativa 52 with Sherman tanks they hold the G.H. and for it they paid a high price. Just to respect the memories of those brave tankist and tank commenders the G.H. should stay where it is now. Otherwise in the future Israel can not ask its soldiers to make sacrifices as the unit 52nd did on those dark days. We should remember those brave soldiers and respect their wishes to hold on.

I tried to answer your question although it was to Mark but about me, it was not posted. To fully understand what I ment required an explanation on my part refering to liberal mindset I understand it to work today, not always posted here. Sorry, maybe in the future I will try again, for now understand it as you pleased.

Regardless of the topic under discussion, and these are interrelated, the same predictable cacophony emanates from the the same crowd of primitive, tribal ignoramous individuals who take pride in repeating non-sensical trash. It is clear that nothing will change their mind. It remains for the others to internalise the fact that this crowd is representative of the Israeli government (or is it the other way around?). It is our duty to challenge them because we must, but at the end of the day we will be left watching the gathering calamity for it is not the Palestinians or the Arabs who will bring it about but Israel itself. There is no doubt about it.

Howdy Johnboy; Between 1948 and 1967, Syria had heavy artillery with ranges up to 20 Km. positioned on the Golan Heights and was shelling the northern quarter of Israel on a daily basis without provocation. Not exactly "pot-shots" was it? In order for this "deal" to go through, Syria will have to convince the average Israeli citizen that the Golan Heights will not be used by anybody for military purposes. Israelis might trust the Syrian Army, but they are not about to trust Hezbollah or the Palestinian militant/terrorist groups who are lurking about in Syria drooling at the prospect of being able to shoot Katyusha rockets into Israel from the Golan Heights. Unless Syria agrees to brutally crush any violation of the agreement by extra-governmental militias, then the deal is off.

Howdy Joe; Secret talks stink. Who are these guys who think that they can privately decide how to chop up the world without so much as a "by your leave" from the people being effected? Are we back to "noblese oblige" in which a handful of "nobel" people decided that knew what was best for the rest of us peons? Yeah, well we tried that with the Versailles Treaty and the Oslo Accords and they only made matters worse. I say no! Keep all negotiations public. I don't want a bunch of self-annointed, cigar-smoking, brandy swilling diplomats making secret deals behind my back and neither do the rest of us "commoners".

"I didn't know anything, and no one in the government knew," (Olmert) said. A clear-cut case of deniability. Olmert said the government was not directly involved, not that the government allowed unofficial negotiations, and that those negotiations achieved a document which could serve as a basis for agreement. In fact the final draft document looks very much like the agreement Barak and Hafez al-Assad signed off to just before Barak decided Arafat was the better (sic) possibility.

Hello again Tosefta, I will gladly answer the question since it is about me. I am not negative, I am realist. The realisitc prospectus on the short tirm realities are not so good, therefore my sound bite appears as negative. The problem today is the liberal left does not have an `option in its lookup menu` nor does it remotely cares or wants to see what & how much of it the Arab world wants. Combined with the at most radical hatred of Bush & his brigade, & therefore everything they associate with, the agenda & goal is to attach all the potential or actual failures there, whether legitimate or not. I have the feeling Mark knew it was Bush`s fault if Syrian deal was not going to work, probably before the story broke out(humor). I hope I answered your question.

Howdy Johnboy; If Syria can convince Israel that no artillery shell or rocket will be fired from the Golan Heights into Israeli sovereign territory by anybody including Hezbollah and the Palestinian militant/terrorist groups which have so far operated with impunity within Syria, then it might work. However, it would only take one Katyusha rocket for Israel to retake the Golan Heights (with hundreds of IDF casualties and thousands of Arab casualties) so Syria had better be serious about stiffling their terrorist guests.

Could be leveraged to the West Bank. It is to be turned into a park, with the natives put on display, fed twice daily, and with Veterinary care. Some of course, would be used in traveling shows, where they re-enact their past struggles. Wild, wild what?

Howdy Mark; With a GDP of over $13 trillion/yr., the U.S. is not worried about borrowing a few measely hundreds of billions of dollars a year from foreigners with interest. Perhaps the bubble will burst eventually, but not in my lifetime and if the U.S. goes down, then so does the rest of the world (including the Netherlands). Choke on that!

Have you eveer had potshots fired at yourself or any of your kids? Why were there potshots across a legal border for thee fun of it? Is that why they should be ignored, because it was all a big laugh for some bored soldiers? Suria invaded Israel in 67 and 73, almost FLOODING the valley with its tanks. Luckily for us the IDF was better than they were. What do you think would have happened otherwise? Do you think their tanks included lucky packets they inteded handing out to the little kids thaey had been taking pot shots at? You're a true idiot!

Hell Mark, Can you take a look at post #313 by TonyL and tell me what he means. He recommends you as his interpreter.. I think the man has a generally negative attitude about future possibilities. But his poetic style is not that clear. Thanks for your help, Tosefta

You don't even realise how incongruous you post is, do you? The Golan is strategic because a hostile power will use it to flood - FLOOD, I Tell you!! - onto the flat plains of the Israeli heartland. And your evidence that there is just such a hostile power waiting - gosh, barely restrained on the leash - to FLOOD in to Israel and create carnage and genocide? Why, from 1948-67 Syria took pot-shots at the little kiddies playing on the Israeli kibbutzim in the Hula Valley. And you don't see any sort of disconnect between the dire theory that you put forward and the rather meagre evidence that you have to back up that theory? 19 Years Syria was poised to FLOOD into Israel, and what did it do? Why, it took pot-shots at kiddies in kibbutzim near the border. Well, that'd have me quaking in my boots....

For those who wish Ariel Shaon were still in power we have his work continuing on its own momentum. One wondered why Olmert seemed to speak as if Washington made Israel's foreign policy. Now the truth comes out. Well done!

and all others who who dare talk about Israel's alleged discriminatory and biased practices. If this is what you prefer, God (not Allah) help us all! In case you missed this! http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=9MSFbhIG-sk

Private, discreet conversations are often better than public fanfare. I believe some good will come from these contacts. I've always thought the younger Assad, a British trained eye doctor, would be more prepared to talk to Israel than his father was.

I agree with you on they will never give up the Heights. Not for the reason you stated though. Ask Robert E. Lee about taking the high ground at Gettysburg.

You need not worry, Lynn. George W. Bush is not a believer in diplomacy. He wants to get what he needs by threats, not by diplomacy and payment. The result would be that more US money will be spent on military operations than on potential donations. Dealing diplomatically with Syria would have weakened Iran and pacified Hizballah. The chosen alternative is to have more enemy infiltrators in Iraq.

I just cherish your moral equivalence. Is "demented" some kind of a code word. The settlers are demented and Clickfoll is demented. What about Danite and her appeasing ways are they not demented, What is your hatred towards other Jes if not demented. Must be that Anarchist philosophy of yours and I don;t want to hear about my Polish upbringing. Where are your parents from bu the way?

NEVER GIVE THE GOLAN UP.

MARILYN DESERVES TO DIE OF A HERRENDOUS ILLNESS PREFERABLY MOTOR NORON DISEASE, IT WOULD CRIPPLE HER AND SHE WOULD EVENTUALLY VEGITTATE. THATS FOR BEING SO ANTI ISRAEL. AMEN AMEN

DUTCH DERK YOUR MAD, WE CAN FLATTEN THEM, WITH NUCLEAR BOMBS ANY COUNTRY THAT COMES TO ATTACK ISRAEL. DROP DEAD FESERIC

TO DUTCH DERK YOU ARE A FESERIC, A FESERPOA.

I doubt that it CAN take sovereignty off one of its member nations. And, let's face it, if the Golan goes under a UN Mandate then the UN is taking over sovereignty. THAT can only happen if the sovereign power (Syria) ceded sovereignty to it; the UN can not TAKE that sovereignty off it. Nor can the UN accept the Golan from Israel. The Golan is not Israeli sovereign territory and, therefore, it is not Israel's to give to the UN. SYRIA has to agree that the UN take the Golan under a Mandate, and the chances of Syria agreeing to that are exactly zero.

WE MUST NEVER GIVE THE GOLAN UP, BUT NEVER.

Syria has sent troops into Israel exactly ONCE, Ben. Way, way back in 1948. The grand-slam, wham-bamm attack by less than 3,000 troops. Topping out at less than 5,000 troops. Tops. It has not even tried to send its army onto Israeli soil since then. Not once; 1973 was fought exclusively on Syrian territory. So, when you say "Syria HAD the Golan and wasn`t content." what you are saying is that since the initial Armistice of 1949 Syria HAD the Golan, and was attacked by Israel and dispossessed of it in 1967. It has not been content with that situation since. "What guarantees she`ll be happy this time?" - what guarantees does Syria have that Israel will be happy this time, and not seek to king-hit Syria again and grab it back?

You need not worry, Lynn. George W. Bush is not a believer in diplomacy. He wants to get what he needs by threats, not by diplomacy and payment. The result would be that more US money will be spent on military operations than on potential donations. Dealing diplomatically with Syria would have weakened Iran and pacified Hizballah. The chosen alternative is to have more enemy infiltrators in Iraq.

This appears to be a sound plan. The possibility of a surprise like 1973 would be eliminated. The problem I see is that the Bush regime will be totally outraged if peace were to break out between Israel and Syria.

Trust me, I have long lost the `understanding` for Bush`s policies & actions, & I concur the Israeli shyster PM is mainly the `yes lackey` here because he lacks everything the Israeli leader should have, especially compared to some `giants` of the past. But nothing more than their blind `witch hunt` with not a hint of any practical solutions, & nothing other than magical blah, blahs & treaties on both sides, based on nothing but well wishes, high morals, human rights, & go nowhere further than this sites? well you might guess where I am going, just ask our highly intelligent erudite Mark Lincoln on that.

So far, you've lambasted Likud, demonized Lieberman, and run screaming from Netanyahu. Meanwhile, HAMAS, currently in power, still can't summon up the courage to even say that they will agree to accept the existance of Israel. Rather, we get Meshal, Hanyiah, and Abbas, reiterating that rather than fight each other, its better "for the cause" to kill Jews. POINT OUR GUNS AT THEM, says Abu Mazen proudly. WE WILL NEVER RECOGNIZE ISRAEL, says Meshal. Meanwhile, Hanyiah is making cash runs from Ahmadinejad in Iran like he's a mule for Al Capone. Here's what you don't get Dino. Israeli's are fed up with the violence. From the suicide bombs to the Qassams to the Katyusha's. They've had it. They have made their "brave gestures", in Sinai, with Jordan, out of Lebanon, and in Gaza. Yet still, the Muslim world rings with cheers to wipe Israel off the map, and Ahmadinejad touts that he will do it.

I did not say it. God says it in HIS word. He will judge you by what you just said.

to the son of joseph.who's stealing land?....you say, israel?

Israeli's will decide what's in their best interest, and given the rockets from Gaza, Israeli's are polling that they don't think it was such a good deal. Same thing with the North. There is a reason why Olmert has a 7%+ rating, and Likud is polling at 29 seats while Kadima is something like 12. As for defense minister, Lieberman is not a military man last I checked, and I think that Israeli's would push for someone with greater defense credentials after going through Peretz. The 'ceasefire' is on paper only, and there are still Qassams getting fired into Israel. As for the 'Geneva option', the Palestinians still can't get their own house in order, so even if there was an Israeli PM interested in making such a 'brave gesture' (after how the last such 'gesture' withdrawing from Gaza was treated by the Palestinians), there is really no one on the Palestinian side to provide that 'brave leadership' to answer such a move.

For all of you American friars that have given $$$ to Israel for various causes, now is the time to vote with you wallets. Not a dime to the nihilists who lead that country. Instead of pissing your money away on Israel, spend in Jewish charities for Americans.

I would rather have a government led by Borat, than one led by Tzipi Livni. I wonder if Ms Livni will ussher in the running of the Jews once this deal is concluded with Syria. When in doubt Israel=chelm

I agre with you! they make the best wine in israel, if israelis could stay at the wineries then for me its a done deal!! Regards

Syria HAD the Golan and wasn't content. What guarantees she'll be happy this time?

You should start reading the economic pages in the newspaper, Lynn. Then you would know the entire American economy drifts on consumer spending which on it's turn drifts on credit (are you in the red?) which on it's turn drifts on selling total worthless American pieces of paper called obligation bonds to the world, the Chinese in particular. Americans live on foreign credit and if the stream stops floating, bills will be there to be paid.

I can say only one thing. It was about time.

It would not be surprising that under the circumstances those who are anxious to avoid a possible conflict in the region would do so by claiming the existence of a secret peace process between Israel and Syria. Peace is always more desirable than conflict, but the question is peace at what price. Given the private nature of this accord, it is useless to discuss its possible advantages or disadvantages. It is dangerous to engage in speculation that might in fact impede any real peace process any time in the future.

Here we have a fully negotiated accord between Israel and Syria. This accord was negotiated by three private individuals, ostensibly without official backing, and facilitated by an unnamed European country. Both Israel and Syria officially deny that any such accord exists. The question then is who benefits from this revelation. It is no secret that the United States, as well as the West in general, are alarmed by Iran's nuclear ambitions and its support for global terrorism. Syria's alliance with Iran and its own support of the two terror organizations--Hizbollah in Lebanon and Hamas in the territories--, is also of grave concern to Israel, the US and its allies. It is also known that at present there is a large US naval build-up in the Persian Gulf and an important Western naval presence off the coast of Lebanon. At the same time, Iran and Syria are reported to be acquiring advanced weapons systems.

I just love the way everyone wants to spend OUR taxes to support every damned country on the planet. Get it from the EU, France would be a good start. They just sold Libya Fighter jets. And they are on the way to visit Iran in spite of sanctions. Jeez, let some other country get off their wallet for once.

"I have no doubt that it will be possible to start negotiating with Syria if it commits to ending violence and support of terror, Hamas, and Hizballah, and cuts off the contact with Iran" - Olmert Just like Master Bush, Olmert first wants the Syrians to relieve themselves of all their assets, and only then there will be talk. Bush can`t even be a Ballegoolle (carriage driver); he puts the carriage in front of the horses! Why do the Syrians support Hamas and Hizballah? Because they want their Golan back, but are afraid (at least until the recent Lebanon war) to confront Israel directly. The Syrians have already caused indirectly two wars in Lebanon, in 1982 (by supporting the PLO) and in 2006 (by supporting Hizballah). Another war is expected soon. Why do the Syrians have close ties with Iran? Because they are threatened by the US, their old supporter the USSR is no more, and they need some protector. They take the one they can get, even though Iran is not the most natural ally (Sunni vs. Shiite, Secular vs. Islamist, Arab vs. Farsi). The way you deal with other people is to agree on some "cease fire" for the duration. You do not ask the opponent to first turn its weapons into scrap metal. In the Syrian context, a "cease fire" could be some verifiable (temporary) stop to rearming Hizballah or some other gesture. Israel may be asked to commit to something equivalent. Instead of following Master Dumbya Bush, Olmert should try to educate him and explain to him that taking Syria out of the Iranian orbit will be very beneficial to the US. Let Israel educate the Israel-leaning neocons about the benefits to all, and they will get it into Bush`s head by constant repetition.

Keep up the momentum going. Goodluck to you all.

We have had so much death in The ME,now Finally it appears that everybody have come to their sences and starting to talk about peace, PEACE , P E A C E. Let us hope that all of them mean it.

It will bring back hope.

But since it ain't, then you are the one who is ignorant. The line I am talking about is the one that mentions "territories" and not "the territories". THAT bit of hair-splitting has always been the cornerstone of Israel's insistance that it can renegotiate its borders.

I always follow His wise advise, but I'll make an exception in your case. In 2000, Pals were offered in Camp David 100% of Gaza, 97% of the West Bank in Camp David, & half of Jerusalem as a capital with the Israelis, but Arafat FAILED to even come up with a counteroffer. Still "intrigued"?

If true, Yahoo !!! Shalom- Ray Ryan

...easier to deny under pressure. Better than these mechanisms of plausibly denied contacts are discrete contacts that, while officially recognized are set up to permit failure to reach agreements (without making things worse a la Baraks fiasco with Yasir) and whose bureaucratic bracketing relieves top politicoes of having to respond to each and every leak.

You do have such a need for attention don't you. NEEDY, NEEDY, NEEDY!

Not if Assad gets a Condo on the Heights, plus a cut of the entrance fees at Yosemite's Disneyland and we name a fountain in Turk's Peace Park after him. Bronzed of course. I think he will more than likely accept.

Peace Park to be built beneath the Condos on the Heights across from Disneyland. What a beautiful view that will be!

right next to Yosemite's Disneyland. Imagine that!

Park, shmark. What really counts are those excellent wineries. :-)

Whether the talks took place or not, the published new "results" are not serious and are unlikely to be part of a final agreement between Israel and Syria. The talks never "graduated" to the level of official talks, unlike "Oslo", and both Israel and Syria are denying their validity in strong Language. (Olmert only read about it in the papers yesterday, and Sharon is not talking.) Therefore, one can at best put the talks in a footnote as a curiosity. But I have two problems with the content of the "agreement", which cast doubt on their realisticality: 1. Israel wanted some territorial exchange, but the Syrians preferred a park. From a Syrian point of view, wouldn't it have been better to have a small territorial exchange than to lose the use of an enormous area? Makes little sense. 2. Syria will not promise to detach itself from Iran merely for peace with Israel. It simply cannot afford this, especially if it expects a financial crunch. The US government must be involved in such a deal and promise Syria financial support, as it gives to Egypt.

is their any reason you are protecting clickfool like he was your pampered pet? What was wrong with my post to him? I called him an anti semite? Sowhat, it is a fair comment given the nature of his demented views on israel.

it would be a great step forward for the entire region but most importantly, it would increase the chances of a peaceful future for Israel

Put golan under UN-mandete for a while, with the ambition to reconnect it with Syria, then see what happends. Does it lull syria from supporting hamas and hizbollah for a while or will syria interprete it as a sign o weakness. If golan can give the M.E peace, so be it. But giving dogs with no owner food will only encourage them to bark for more. We gave free water to Syria for years, it didn't gave us peace. It wasn't untill we treathend them with war that we finally achieved "peace".

Peaces with Islam impossible we are not going surrender our nation to people that they want our destruction By the way any news from Ben Gurion I am worry about him is he ok

this sounds legit. it has all the hallmarks of a good peace deal. syria gets back its land..israel gets peace and end end to support for terror. and if syria helps stop the carnage in iraq..then the usa will end its sanctions against syria. this is a win win for everyone. i pray that syria...and israel..will give it a chance

This is the kind of talks we need more of! Candid discussion and problem solving of the actual issues at hand, without idealogical pontification. This peace accord as I see it will do nothing but help Israel, assuming it works as planned, because it will help isolate Iran in the Muslim world and increase Israel's ties to its moderate Muslim neighbors. (Despite Syria's previous militancy, I consider Syria moderate because it is not stubbornly centered on ideology like Saudi Arabia or Iran.) The treaty outline is exactly the opposite of Oslo, which dealt entirely with abstract ideas and allegiances while doing nothing to change the actual status quo, in fact merely giving the Arabs additional moral standing. (Don't think that I disparage Rabin though! If he had lived, Oslo would have worked.) As long as this treaty stays out of saying anything about the Israel/Palestinian Arab conflict I'm all for it! Please note this comes from someone who also favors annexing Judea/Samaria.

Untill I can see Bashar Assad putting his signature on a document and implementing the agreement, it just seems wishfull thinking.I don't believe the Syrian president to be a man of courage. On the other hand, such plans should only be made public when both parties really intend to proceed .Otherwise it is just one more unnecessary disapointment

I agree with you,however as israel begins to free itself from the ME the hard core freaks will have less and less of an audience to cheer them on.Thye will stand more and more isolated with fewer smoke machines and bells and whistles to hide their true intentions.My point was , it is time for all concerned to give up their delusions and see which way the wind is blowing, which is territory for cold peace.Thats all israel needs from them ,to be ignored by the Arabs is the best of all solutions for israel.

That Assad is willing to screw Hizbollah,and find a way to get closer to the US with all that entails is a major gain for israel.The reason Olmert is interested is it will allow him to pursue his fantasies of drawing the borders with the palestinians the way he wants.In any event returning territory under certain circumstances is in israels best intrests.Those terrirtories have long since lost any benefit they acrued to israel.In any event trying to stop the trend is a waste of time.The exchange of territory for cold peace is the name of the game and it is worth it.israel needs to get away from the ME and spend time on its own buisness.

Why don't syria, and israel as well, give us our holy cities damaskus and Jerusalem back. We will buildt 24 hours opend parks there with free entrance for all israelis and syrians, for other foreigners we will charge 3 USD, just to cover the maintence costs. Now, isn't this a good proposal for peace and friendship in the region? Any one who doesn't agree? Oh.one more thing, no fanatics or any other extremist can entrance our peace parks. If they do so, they will be fined.!!

Former leftist FM Abba Eban (yes Israel used to have once a real FM) used to call the pre 1967 borders the “Auschwitz borders”. Anyone who flew over the Golan Heights and the Kinnereth understands very well what he had in mind. Nevertheless, for a real peace, the Golan will be returned as a demilitarised zone guaranteed by the US, modelled after the Sinai accords. Water questions have been solved already during many secret meetings. What is necessary however, is a government in Syria, that not only wants peace but a better future for its people. The actual dictatorship based on a small minority cannot deliver. That is the real problem. Haaretz should wake up to the reality. There is not enough pressure for the Assad regime at the moment to come forward, the Haaretz article was no contribution to this either.

If Assad is a man of peace why not stop arming hezbollah now as a gesture of goodwill proove he is serious about wanting peace. Sadat had peacefull relations with Israel between 1973 - 1977 when he came to the knesset Assad says give us the land or we use blackmail and threaten to hurt you thats not peacemaking. Are the Israeli politicians really so stupid that they support land for threats. Hezbollah can be stopped through international sanctions on Syria. Tell Assad the terror stops now or we hurt you economcly. Its been done to hamas but unlike hamas Assad is not a revolutionry with ideals he is the president of a poor country he will be hit hard and start looking for a way out and if Israel also talks about invading Syria ( not necisarily action ) if he doesnt stop then Assad is going to have to do some thinking. Right now all he has to do is say land for peace and Israels left come running willing to do things on his terms. Hurt him in the pocket and it will bring results.

Of course the details would have to be negotia- ted. The condition for that to happen would be that the Palestinians would finally be able to form a unity governement (which would require Hamas to swallow a few bitter pills). But do you seriously think, that Nethanyau would be the one to make that bold step...?? Forget it, he would do EVERYTHING possible to prevent such a scenario from happening, because his ideology is 100'000 miles away from the Geneva accord. And still so many Israelis would vote for him, and forget about all his blunders when he was PM at the end of the 90's...?? I just don't get it.

and every other strategic land it needs for its safety and security. When the time comes for a Palestinian state, if ever, there will be tolerance of Jews by the Arabs. If that tolerance and non-violence does not occur then Israel will have to make even more buffer zones. The ball has always been in the Pali court. Come up with leadership that wants peace and a state for his people and not continue to choose death.

Sorry, Jacob Blues, was a bit to quick with my response, but anyway, with regard to Likud: I am sure, that you would agree that the Gaza- withdrawal was pretty much in the interest even of the moderate right in Israel. But the current Likud leader Nethanyau opposed it for example, so I guess it's a pretty weak point, why one should vote for Likud. With regard to Iran, okay, some Israelis may think they need a tough guy for that, but if Lieberman for example got defense minister under a PM Nethanyau, then help us God... And who is gonna pay the bill for a new Likud adventure...?? Of course, once again the Palestinians. If you remember, we have a cease-fire now, okay it took a while for the Quassams to stop, but right now, you will have to admit, its pretty quiet. What the world would need now, would be a bold Israeli PM who would go to Ramallah and tell the Palestinian people that Israel will make peace on the basis of the Geneva accord. Continued......

It needs the water of the Golan Heights, having polluted its own Coastal Aquifer with industrial and agricultural contaminants.

Well done haaretz, you've gone from StormFront to the National Enquirer for a change of pace. I'm sure we can look forward to a return to previous status next week.

Now this would be a grate idea for Peace!

Nice to know that for 40 years there were a peaceful border on the Golan,thus all of us appreciate that the SYRIANS CAN be PEACEFUL NEIGHBOURS, even when THEIR LAND was occupied. Now imagine when they've got possesson of THEIR LAND back,sure they will be even more peaceful neighbours. What is worrying presenly is about the recent statement of Pres.Assad " SYRIA IS PREPARING FOR WAR." This in my mind would make anybody wondering "is the NEXT 40 years will be as Peaceful as the LAST 40 years.?????"

Hafez Assad was strong enough internally to guarantee that Syria would keep its promises, that it would act in accordance with whatever peace treaty it signed with Israel. People, on the whole, don't seem to have the same confidence in Baby Assad.

As far as I know, people or states that wants something (eg. peace) are usually showing some good-will for a start, so that the opposite side may take them seriosly. Has Syria shown any goodwill? If they have, when and how did they do it? Syrias (and israels as well as turkeys) problem isn't Golan or some stupid park. The problem is Assad and his dictat-regim. That's the problem and its very solution. The man is a terrorist for god sake, when did Israel, or any other country for that matter, started to negotiad with terrorist.

The Golan is a strategically important region, extending like a finger between the borders of Lebanon, Jordan and Syria. In the past, that finger was crucial to preventing the Israeli defense dike from bursting and allowing Arab armies to flood the country. Why? Because it is only about 60 miles -- without major terrain obstacles -- from the western Golan to Haifa and Acre, Israel's industrial heartland. In the hands of a friendly neighbor, the escarpment has little military importance. If controlled by a hostile country, however, the Golan has the potential to again become a strategic nightmare for Israel. From 1948-67, when Syria controlled the Golan Heights, it used the area as a military stronghold from which its troops randomly sniped at Israeli civilians in the Hula Valley below, forcing children living on kibbutzim to sleep in bomb shelters. In addition, many roads in northern Israel could be crossed only after probing by mine-detection vehicles.http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/vie/viegolan.html

Jacob Blues, that's exactly the point I wanted to make. If people get the feeling that Israel is "cheating" on the settlement issue, they will automatically tend to mistrust Israel on all fronts, as unfair this may be. But you do have a point, if one would be conse- quent and "neutral", one would also have to mistrust the other side on everything when the Quassams keep falling in spite of the cease- fire. But hey, that's life, most people are biased, in one way or the other.... By the way, I hope you got my second response from late last night on the Carter article (trip to London....)....

And arabs nand Arabs never will understand existence of Jewish state only undefeated Israeli army can solve the conflict

The party in power during the Gaza pullout? Likud.

1,500 Qassams and 4,000 Katyusha's will do that to a population. Israel took a big gamble in 2005 when it pulled out of Gaza. In 2006, it was proved that such a policy was not beneficial to Israel. The final nail in the coffin was Hizballah's attack across the border. It showed that just handing back land to the Arabs didn't bring about a change in the mindset or actions. Rather, it put more Israeli's at risk. Kadima, bore the brunt of that. The Israeli electorate is rational, Dino. Labor showed that the love fest didn't work, and the voters went for Sharon. Sharon then used the force of his personality to push for a new way forward. Unfortunately, a stroke and Olmert dismembered that vision. With the ongoing violence, and increasingly hostile rhetoric in Iran, people are going to look for security. Likud, is the only group in town with that central policy. So its no surprise that the voters would shift in that direction.

Talks/Negociations,all contribute for a sensible outcome rather than sabre ratling. Chairman Arafat's team did have secret talk with the Israeli Team at OSLO. Mr.Omri Sharon had talk to Arafat, and Thanks GOD now we are having some kind of talks between the Israelies and the Syrians.

I see you're another fan of the dusty book of myths and legends, Genesis. Tell me, Augustine...what's your opinion about that story about the Biblical All-In Wrestling Champion, Jacob, who put God in a death lock and wouldn't release him until he'd extracted a blessing? You'll remember that God is a vampire and only agrees to the blessing because the dawn is near.

Even if we solve all our problems with Syria, the Palestinians and Iran, the Jew-haters and Israel-bashers will always find some reason to continue hating Jews and Israel. The history of modern anti-Semitism shows that it always changes its raison d'etre in line with changing conditions. These people apparently have a deep-seated emotional, psychological need to hate - something in their personal, family, economic background, perhaps; or perhaps failure in life translating into hatred of a scapegoat. As for the Jewish far right, they may not change their religious beliefs, but if the State will only exert itself to enforce its agreements and its law, they can be brought into line.

They're not talking about Maale Adumim, they're talking about how they don't believe that Israel would even hold negotiations with Syria. In fact, Maale Adumim doesn't even come into mention prior to your comments. What we have heard is how this is really some form of dirty Jewish trick, and how the Israeli's really don't want peace so any reports to the contrary must be a sham. It highlights the point Dino, that no matter what Israel does, that people who want to hate Jews, will search for any excuse to use for them to rationalize their hate mongering.

Right so far , Israel doesn't need any more parks. But you know, what Israel does need is a few more straight and logical thinking citizens and politicians who are willing to give a peace initiative with Syria a fair chance while hoping that without committing oneself completely, something positive will come out of this. If Olmert screws up on this potential opportunity, it should be considered the straw that breaks the "back of his political career" and he should be ousted as soon as possible without any further sentiments whatsoever.

This is almost exactly the agreement that Hafez al-Assad and Ehud Barak nearly signed. Barak apparently called off the talks a few meters of Kineret shore-line short of agreement in favor of the Palestinian track. Since Palestinian terror was hosted and havened in Damascus at that time also, and since Syria had long made it clear that they would not allow an agreement with the Palestinians leaving Syria to deal alone with Israel; and since terror in the form of suicide bombs on Israeli buses and marketplaces tended to increase the closer agreement with the Palestinians seemed, was it not clear that Syria was, and always had been the final spoiler of peace with Palestine? Syria has lived by her military agreements with Israel, and that border has been quiet since 1967. An agreement swapping territory for terror in Lebanon and Palestine, providing military guarantees with economic and diplomatic cooperation is clearly in the interest of both parties. Let the open negotiations begin!

I think the majority of Israelis will be looking at this story, and assessing its merits, what the pitfalls are and where Israel can go from here. A starting point if you like. I say that with a certain amount of knowledge from reading responses on Haaretz. The vast majority of Israelis want peace for themselves and their children, those who do not are those who have the most to lose mainly the settlers, or those Israelis who have a stake in Israel by living in the US etc.

This website is getting tiresome - why won't you post any of my rather whitty responses to that Clickfool character (or the fake or whatever)? Could it be that he is actually a Haaretz stooge, cunningly popping up to stimulate reaction? I don't believe its possible to post that many times in a day!!

Marwan, I would think that Meshal suddenly recognizing Israel's existance is a sign that Syria is changing, don't you think?

Jacob Blues, I hope you would agree that the continuing settlement expansion (Maale Adumim in yesterdays Haaretz for example) is not really helpful for those who still would be open minded in making their judgement about Israels intentions. Neither are the polls suggesting that Likud would win with a landslide if there would be elections in Israel today. And you and the Israeli people know exactly what Likud stands for with regard to settlements....

When they kick the Mashal and his murdering gang out of Damascus, when they stop arming Hezbollah and killing politicians in Lebanon, that's when I'll know they've changed. So far it looks like it is just a ploy to get the West to end Syria' total isolation. I guess being close to the Global Jihadist Iran isn't as good as it may seem. Either way, I am sure Ahmadinejad will do everything he can to prevent Syria from making peace with Israel.

naturally i would prefer all of bible israel to be in the hands of israel -- a larger israel is preferred not smaller ---- if i read the bible correctly , it belongs to the jews -- but it is not my decision to make ======== shalom to all israel ========== augustine e johnson . usa

Syria needs help in looking bad? They rank near the top of the world's worst countries. Why? Their illegal domination of Lebanon (yes, Indrajaya, the Taif accords do exist), assassinations, hosting 11 terrorist organizations in Damascus, funneling insurgents and weapons into Iraq.....whew, need more? Come to think of it, Indonesia isn't doing such a great job either, is it?

Iran naval battle hoax? This from the Fars news agency: [i] Since the early hours of Sunday morning, many Iranian subscribers have received an SMS which spoke of a clash between Iranian and American battleships in the Persian Gulf waters.[/i] More here: http://english.farsnews.net/newstext.php?nn=8510240464

What is Syrian supply of missiles to Hezbollah, a peace offering? What was baby Assad recent war-is-imminent posturing, a display of peaceful intentions? What is Syrian support for the Hamas leader responsible for terror attacks, connected to Shalit kidnapping and kassam firing mean? Syria has shown itself only as an enemy. Assad lied to the United States about removing terrorist organizations from Syrian soil. Do you really believe he will treat Israel any better? Further proof of Olmert's gullibility.

in 1973 israel controlled upto the suez canal and the golan heights. it did not bring them security, the had their most difficult war and may have lost if the US had not flown arms and munitions into israel and the egyptian generals had been bolder when they crossed the suez. the recent lebanese war should give the war mongers food for thought, but thought is not their strong suit. even bush's folly in iraq will not wake them up. the only allies these half wits have are the american evangalists who cannot wait to get all jews into israel in preparation for armagedon. read the new testament to see what bush's friends think of jews and their plans for the jews. as a footnote about 48% of american believe the day of judgement will be in their lifetime. meanwhile iran marches forward to having nuclear weapons. again who are the antisemites!

I would love to learn that this story is based on reality. Everybody gives something. What a wonderful concept! I learned this in a course on negotiation. The best result is that both sides win something. It is called win/win. Every person of goodwill has to want this story to come true.

Actually, the Jewish population of Katzrin is only about 6,500, and the total Jewish population of the Golan Heights is about 17,000. That's just over twice the population of Gush Katif. Also, there was probably at least as much economic development and activity in Gaza's Jewish settlements as in the Golan today. I think that a far bigger problem are the Muslim and Druze populations who may not be so happy about coming under Syrian control.

To write about. As we have seen, Marylin, Clickfool, Reveltop, et.al, are already out there saying that "Peace Negotiations" are nothing more than a dirty Jewish trick. How dare the Israeli's try to fool them about seeking peace. After all, just because they did that with the Egyptians and Jordanians, means they have no credibility. After all, we do control the media as James "Disaster" Carter likes to say, so who's to say that Jews would want peace.

To have hope in something good is worthwhile but I am afraid Israel is deluding itself in believing the Syrians can be trusted. I read today, where this same Syria continues to supply Hezbollah in Lebanon. Is UNIFIL patrolling at night so that these weapons do not get to their intended target, ISRAEL? This is a method of distraction. SYRIA IS STILL SYRIA AND NOT TO BE TRUSTED. I am far more concerned about the plans against Israel and suspect SYRIA of treachery. The UN has mostly been a spectator to and avenue promoting treachery everywhere it has interfered. Nothing has changed. Israel will always have to guard her back against SYRIA,the Arab states, and the UN will never be a righteous organization. Put your hope in the G-d of Israel my friends. CUFI.

Israel sends its agents after Palestinian terrorists who murdered Israeli atheletes at the Olypics. Iran gets Hizballah to go to Argentina to blow up a Jewish community center. Yeah, I can see the equivelent. One has to wonder just how your logic is cooked up. What cauldren of hate you must have simmering up there.

There are sufficient quantities of what if's and maybe's and possibly's and however's with a few but's in the end. All the article says is that there have been substantial discussions with the Syrian's during the past 2 years. Could the info be a trial baloon. Very possible. Could it be a leak, again very possible. To what and and who released the information also would be interesting to know.

ISRAEL GAINS - a park for everybody to go enjoy the views, and promises from a weak Assad. ISRAEL LOOSES - millions in anual exports through products made in the Golan and tourism where money goes to Israel not syria. Strategic high ground, homes for around 35 thousand jews ( majority of the population ), billions in debt trying to rehouse and find jobs for them and damage to the economy which will last for years. ASSAD GAINS -the Golan & an end to US snanctions. Syria hasnt been a threat to Israel for over 30 years thanks to Israel holding the Golan which is a physical peacekeeper not a paper one. Peace with Syria would be nice but its not urgent and even if he wanted to Assad couldnt keep all those promises he would be overthrown or killed. Why do Israel politicians love giving up the political advantage when it has it so its enemeis can have land for peace. Get rid of the entire Olmert regime not the Golan. Livni,Olmert,Peretz are bad news for Israel but Assads dream team.

We're all well aware that the publication of 'secret' meetings is still a far cry from any real deal that is signed and more importantly delivered on. No one is blind to the actions of the dictator Bashar Assad, and no one is oblivious to his support for HAMAS and Hizballah. This is an eyes wide open sort of negotiation with a well known individual. Moreover, we're also aware of the significant shortfalls in the three previous 'peace' deals with Egypt, Jordan, and the Palestinians. There are real concerns and real risks. No one is walking off a cliff with their eyes closed. There are real and significant risks here. That said, if Syria is true in its intent for peace, and is able to meet the Israeli needs, then there is much to be gained.

THIS WILL NOT BRING PEACE, IT WILL ONLY REWARD SYRIA FOR TERROR

All you read is negativity, smart-aleck, demeaning, antagonistic, pessimistic, vitriolic,baiting, anti-American and anti=Israeli.....pick you adjective... pure tripe. Whatever people like him think does not matter one whit and has no effect....it only makes Israel stronger. Maybe he is Mossad?

I'm not gonna wish both israel and syria a happy peace before us. Palestinians will not wait until Israel and Syria make peace. Anyway I don't think this will happen (peace with syria....yea right).

This is bad news for all those who live in denial.While I am pleased but cautious about these developments it goes to show how retarded so many Israeli haters and far right Jews are in their beliefs of ignoring or wiping the other off the map.Like I have been saying, there are simply too many big intrests of too many big players for this conflict to go on without end, the force of history is on the side of territorial exchange for end of the conflict treaties.The same crew is going to get a similar suprise concerning the territories.The sooner all concerned face the facts the sooner we can get to what will be at least a livable result.Regards

This article is a cartoon ..that could finish morally with Syria help to Hetzbollah during last war: assad's last step to peace

Better make it extra strength size, because Mark Lincoln, Ben Gurion, and Yaacov Sullivan are going to need a large dose of it. You mean to say that the Israeli governments of both Sharon and Olmert have been negotiating...with the Syrians during the past two years? As that old news salt, Perry White, would say "Great Ceasers Ghost"! It must be a misprint. Israeli governments aren't rational according to those three. They're Kool-aid drinkers, hard right wingers who swallow the Fox News line (when their not writing it). But to think. Israeli governments NEGOTIATING! In secret no less. Without telling any of us, including Mark L. Wow, whouda thunk it. I mean, aside from most rational and halfway intelligent people.

"It only takes a few seconds to realise why the Syrian dictatorship wants the Golan" Er.....because it's Syrian territory?

"I did not write post No. 196. Those who know my writing style and content would see it immediately." You're a bit thick, aren't you, Fake Clickfool? (Not my old chum Rupert, of Wych Cross, by any chance?) You invite people to read post # 196. Here it is: "I see you love the work of Fake Clickfool. None of the examples you give were from me. But, then, that`s the purpose of Fake Clickfool - to publish garbage under my name that Zionists can then triumphantly point to and hoot in derision. You Zionists are all out of arguments, aren`t you?" Now what conceivable reason would a Fake Clickfool have for writing this? There's nothing about this message that would in any way help the Zionist cause. So, Fake Clickfool, here's my usual invitation to you - WHY DON'T YOU JUST FAKE OFF AND DO US ALL A FAVOUR?

All you want to do is steal Jewish land. No other cause in the entire world is important for you.

De beste stuurlui staan aan wal! is a Dutch saying meaning: the best sailors stand on the shore! From a Dutch person living in Israel.

Let us hope that Haaretz is not joking. Agreement is acceptable for both sides.

What about PA offcials meeting with Israelis discussing future peace, isn't this the best news for you? You just don't care much about Palestine future.

Giving up the Golan to Syria is right in line with normal Israeli Suicidal moves :it undermines security and BETRAYS it's most loyal citizens. Betrayal of friends and allies (example So. Lebanese Militia), Betrayal of loyal settlers (Gaza settlers), has become an Israel trademark. The Golan settlers have just cause to worry, The Judea and Samaria Patriots have just cause to worry. The USA supporters of Israel have just cause to vomit.

The questions remains, will Syria still act as a conduit for funneling Iranian & Syrian weapons to Hezbollah and inciting turmoil in Lebanon?

Wish it were true. IMhO the story is a huge cloud of hot air, launched for a purpose.

Who cares which is the fake one? They both have a bad case of verbal diahrea! Just a thought: go to both sides of Mt. Hermon on Google Earth, & go to maximum tilt; then overfly the area, 360 degrees, as many angles as possible. It only takes a few seconds to realise why the Syrian dictatorship wants the Golan! Maybe its a 'hudna' for 10 years whilst they build up their armoury??

Syria gives Israel her biblical territory up to the River Euphrates and Syria can have peace.

Oslo started out a wonderfull dream which was going to see an end to terror Israel and palestians were going to work together security garunteed now look where we are. If Assad ends his support for popular terror groups it would be the end of him if he chose Israel over them and he is so deeply involved with Iran now there is no way he could simply say to the mullahs my friend is Israel now but it was good while it lasted. If he did as promised here he might get the Golan but he wouldnt be around long enough to enjoy it because one of his own would kill or overthrow him. Land for peace isnt the answer here Israel has the Golan, Syria is no military threat Assd is weak right now eventually the US & Israel can force him to make peace on teir terms which means not giving away the entire Golan.. something Jummy Carter wouldnt let Begin do with Sinai in 1979 this time Israel has the upperhand dont loose it by rushing into land for peace.

242 says this : "...right to live in peace within secure and recognized boundaries free from threats or acts of force." It does not speak about Israel's boarders. Johnboy learn first speak later

"This news came out in English Haaretz before it came out in Hebrew. I wonder why?" Possibly to get all the North Americans to scream and shout before they went to sleep for the night. Ha'aretz English internet editions likes "blood and gore", i.e., furious reactions either way.

Thank you once again for taking the trouble to send a clear detailed answer. You say: "For a real peace, Israel would agree to a demilitarised Golan under Syria?s sovereignty." So if Assad were willing and able to deliver peace, Golan as the new Sinai would not be a surrender, right? But Assad is not willing and able, so no deal. In that case, who hopes to gain what by leaking the "nonpaper" to Haaretz?

Sounds good to me, but not to you, a false paper that will End when Egypt wants will not bring peace. Kicking all the Jews out of Gaza did not bring peace. Leaving Lebanon did not bring peace. Maybe kicking Arabs outside of Israel will bring peace.

******* "withdraw from the Golan Heights to the lines of 4 June, 1967" ******* Yarmuklopid Zioan-Nasties finally degest a good dose of reality check! ...let's get going now on the Palestinian issues that count.

pEACE FOR pEACE IS ONLY REAL ANSWER. Israel relinquishing any more of its miniscule territory for false promises feeds the false prayer that Israel has no right to exist. Start trading, stop supporting terror, stop the 60 year boycott of Israel. Every Inch of Israel land given feeds the hateful prayer to destroy the Jewish state. To the Arabs of Israel-Palestine- ISRAEL-LOVE IT OR LEAVE IT. GO HOME TO YOUR LOVING BROTHERS-INSIST THEY LET YOU OUT OF REFUGEE CAMPS AND BECOME CITIZENS OF THE 22 Arabs States. Stop being used as pawns, destroying your lives in the attempt to destroy the ONE JEWISH STATE. THERE IS ONE G-d. JEWS are not attempting to reclaim Mecca and Medina. Israel has been returned to the Jews and the desert has been turned into a thriving country despite the false and lowly Muslim hate that refuses to accept G-d's will of the return of ISRAEL TO THE JEWS AND THE RETURN OF JEWS TO ISRAEL. If not the Arab world will destroy itself in its attempt to destroy ISRAEL.

Funny editors that have of my posts are not printed, but this genius that speaks about my sexual organ for defense of his ideas gets published. Moreover, You (editors and other lefties) may not agree with my opinions, yet the majority of the men in the IDF in the dangerous figthing positions do. Over half of the Jewish Israelis do. Just because I do not erase and change history to suit pink glasses wearing fools does not mean I should be insulted on a serious blog. I doubt you editors will print this and I doubt more that you (the editors) will respond to this.

you may be correct. israel should reoccupy the sinai. begin was a fool just like i am. we should listen to kahane and expell all arabs in israel and the teritories. baruch goldstein is a saint. we should also take back what is biblical israel, invade jordan, parts of iraq and syria. only then will there be peace!!!!

No, Natan, the Lion of Damascus is dead. Died a few years ago, in fact. You are confusing him with his son; the Opthamologist of Damascus.

"There are no 1967 borders, there are truce lines of 1949" Hmmm, not TERRITORIAL borders. But Res 242 allows Israel to renegotiate its borders to enhance it's security - everyone here tells me THAT. So if Israel agrees with Syria to make the 1967 line its border - in exchange for enhanced security - then it is following the spirit AND the letter of Resl 242; WELL DONE Israel! "as defined in 1922 in San Remo" - Nope. San Remo 1920 left the borders between the two Mandates undefined, to be decided later by the Anglo-French. Said so at San Remo AND in the Mandate preamble. "This territory was gained by Syria in 1948 war" - Agreed. "But it doesn`t make it Syrian territory" - Agreed. "is not based on international border and law." - nope; two countries can ALWAYS agree to a landswap. The key is that BOTH sides agree; it's only illegal if it's done by force.

...there was Jordan; deal reached in mid `90s (NOT `80s),... You're right, in the 90-s. Thanks.

What a sad view of the world. Israel in a state of perpetual war with her sons and daughters dying and chained to radiators in Beruit until the end of time? Just so little Steven can say the Golan are Israeli so he can feel better about himself (what you got a small penis or something). If I was Israeli I would be looking for a verifiable peace, I think more Israelis than you Steve would be doing the same thing. That gives vent to the greatest of human emotion, hope.

This news came out in English Haaretz before it came out in Hebrew. I wonder why? Israelis are going to have to improve their English if they want to know what's happening in Israel.

"you have to be willing to negotiate with your adversaries before they acquiesce to your demands" If Assad is really willing to have peace with Israel,nothing is easier.He will simply come to the Knesset (or invite the Israeli PM to the Syrian Parliament) and he will simply and openly declare:"In the name of all the Syrians,I declare that we recognize Israel's right to exist as a sovereign state,we totally disagree with those who want its elimination and with those who want the elimination of all the Jews in the world.And I declare here and now that we want to immediately start having mutual diplomatic relations at the level of ambassadors,so that we can sign mutual agreements of cooperation in various fields". This is what Egypt's Sadat did,this is what Jordan's King Hussein did,this is what worked.If Syria's Assad does the same,it will work and then Israel and Syria may well build a joint Jurassic Park on the Golan....

If we know that Israel and Syria has reached an understanding over the Golan, and all is needed is a politician with a spine on both sides to implement it. It is not a secret anymore?

DETTA ÄR FEL THIS IS WRONG ISRAEL MUST KEPP MAIN PART OVH GOLAND AND MOUNT HERMON FOR EVER, IT IS ANCIANT ISRAELI LAND. TO SURVIVE ISRAEL MUST KEEP GOLAN FOR EVER FORMER UN OFFICER MAJOR NILSSON , UNDOF

I read your post very carefully.Even if Barak's proposal wasn't perfect,Arafat should accept it,establish diplomatic relations with Israel and then sit down with it and iron the details.Instead,he chose to instigate the intifada and the suicide bombings. And while we are at it,can you tell us what territories should be -in YOUR OPINION- constitute a Palestinian sovereign and independent state?

I live on a kibbutz in the Golan. I prefer seeing a tree growing on the map that is attached to this article where my kibbutz is located rather then having a tank pictured here.

Raul, these are hard times, especially for newspapers. It is a matter of fact, that secret negotiations are going on between Israel and many Arab countries. It is always better to talk and to see if a negotiation can lead somewhere. There were many talks with Damascus over the years and many countries were involved. Germany is deeply involved because some of the most influential political advisers have studied in Damascus and are pro-Syria and anti-Israel. But all came back with the same result: No sense in official peace negotiations for the time being. The pressure on Assad is simply not hot enough for him to move. It is difficult to see how Assad could follow in the steps of Sadat. For a real peace, Israel would agree to a demilitarised Golan under Syria’s sovereignty. But I am afraid that Haaretz has destroyed the tinny piece of trust that has developed during the negotiations.

Carter was right? Peace with Egypt? Egypt plays war games with Israel as the Enemy. Egypt's state owned media is big on the "Elders of Zion" and other blood libals. Egypt closes a blind eye at best to the smuggling between Egypt and Gaza. Egypt makes more anti-Israel resolutions than anyother member state in the UN. Yet there is peace. Michael why don't you wake up.

Well... True or not AL-Jazeera English has picked up the story before anyone else and is running it without most of the negative disclaimers... Hmmm...

I'm praying that this will be carried out. I think it's the best possible solution to the Israeli-Syrian conflict. There are already those who want to shoot this "non-paper" down with a mini-gun...please give it a chance. The status quo can't continue. Marwan khoury from montreal: Imshan ALLAH kul khara. your posts have reached a point where it looks like you're foaming at the mouth. For some twisted reason, the idea of a nuclear holocaust in this region turns you into a amorous pageboy- yet the hope of a dignified, realistic peace that involves Syria seems to scare the living daylight out of you. You're arguments go beyond politics my dear phlangist and into outright racism

I did not write post No. 196. Those who know my writing style and content would see it immediately.

Peace with Syria? It means nothing if the Syrian people are not interested in peace. The Syrian government doesn't represent the will of the Syrian people.

I see you love the work of Fake Clickfool. None of the examples you give were from me. But, then, that's the purpose of Fake Clickfool - to publish garbage under my name that Zionists can then triumphantly point to and hoot in derision. You Zionists are all out of arguments, aren't you?

you would think that most posts would be over joyed at any hint of peace. to me an anti-semite would love to see continuing conflict between arabs and jews. they know the eventual outcome of 5 million jews in perpetual conflict with hundreds of millions of arabs and muslims. i wonder who the anti-semites are today?? maybe carter is right. he was instrumental in making peace between israel and egypt so the state of israel would have a better chance of surviving. most of the negative posts tell me carter is right.

Haaretz simply has no credibility as a professional newspaper. "Official Israel: Tzipi Livni" decries the headlining photo, with Tzipi in her little inset photo. Yet nowhere in this article, nor in the attached sidebar articles, is Livni mentioned at all. Haaretz == 0 credibility.

I sure hope you're right. It would be insane for Israel to give an inch of the Golan to the Butcher of Damascus. Israel must immediately offer Syria peace... in exchange for peace. Syria should jump at the chance.

"This is big news on English Haaretz and invisible on Hebrew Haaretz." Wrong, Sam, it's the first news item on the Hebrew website of Ha'aretz, just like on this website, and the content is identical. Take some Hebrew lessons. Still, we have no way knowing whether it's true or not, and the influence on the TASE indices is non-existent, indicating disbelief.

at least they have a good sens eof humour

Israel always recognised Syria's existance. Syria on the other had never recognised Israel's. Before you post and try and sound smart, why don't you learn the facts?

...signed in Arabic that leads to the deaths of Jews. I should have invested in paper!

Jonathan S, you say: "This could destroy more what has been achieved secretly so far[...]" So secret talks have achieved something. But surely not simply surrendering Golan to Syria?

Indrajaya will of course recall that agreements were reached with Egypt, which subsequently & rather conveniently washed its hands of Gaza. Then there was Jordan; deal reached in mid '90s (NOT '80s), which conveniently washed its hands of Judea/Samaria. Then the Muslim world & its lackies coined the phrase 'Palestine' & said it had always been there, forgetting the Ottomans & everyone else. Iran & the 'final showdown'?? Iran is all talk & no trousers; wait & see!

it demonstrates the great lengths to which Syria is willing to go and the formidable concessions it is willing to make in order to achieve peace with Israel. However, as others have already pointed out, this report is nothing more than a fantasy which, at its best, constitutes an Israeli wish list and, at its worst, represents a clumsy attempt at garnering the acclamation of naive western observers and putting Syria on the spot. As I recall, a similar "leaked" report surfaced, almost to the day, in 2004 which, as mentioned above, forced Syria to deny that any "back channel" talks had occurred.

This news item, if true is bad news for all the Israel-bashers and Jew-haters in these Talkbacks. Their dream of seeing Israel and/or the Jews wiped off the face of the map recedes even further. "So may all Your enemies perish, O Lord! But may His friends be as the sun rising in might!" (Where, O where are Marilyn, Dutch, Stephen Murray, Natalie Durson and all the rest of Your enemies today?)

Here's some of Clickfool's droppings: 3 Israeli naval vessels sunk during the lebanon war as opposed to 1 damaged and repaired! No smuggling tunnels on Gaza/Egypt border despite admittance and pride in the aforementioned tunnels from Palestinians themselves! Predictions of imminent $300 dollars a barrel Oil price 3 months ago, when price approached $100 which seems to have gone pear shaped? Latest price is in the $50's. Perhaps you should have followed Danny the Israeli one's advice and sold some put options Clickfool? Trust me on this it's an Everest-high, steaming pile of fresh CLICKFOOL droppings. It has CLICKFOOL'S grubby disinformation fingerprints all over the delivery note.

Too many dead Jews since 1948 on that boarder. What will Syria do to pay Israel back between 1948 and 1967 when Syria had the Golan? The Golan is Jewish Holyland it is a sin to give it away anyway. I will never Trust Syria. Look at Egypt, they "watch" the boarder by letting the PA smuggle weapons into Gaza. There will never be peace with the Arabs, lefties learn that fact and get on with life.

To be honest, it would be also good if the Palestinians people would next time look around for some different voices. I can understand, that they were fed up with the Fatah corruption, but there would also be some alternatives to Hamas available, like Mustafa Barghuti or Hanan Ashrawi for example.

There's a banner headline in the Hebrew print edition, a rarity for Ha'aretz.

This is journalistic rubbish. Just goes to show you than any thing fictional or non can be written and published, unsubstantiated. Was Akiva Eldar there? Was he in the room or on the phone? This is pure crap. Israel would not agree to 1967 borders without major assurances. The only way peace will be accomplished is if Saudi Arabia, Tehran, Hezbollah and Hamas recognize Israel. Until then, they can talk everyday, all day and share "wouldn't it be nice if" stories. Back to the fantasy board.

At this point in time, the less official Israel says about the matter, the better. Moreover, as there has been no official confirmation, for all we know, Akiva Eldar, with his peculiar point of view, may be "seeing the shadow of mountains as mountains". Let's just wait before we get het up or cooled down.

Indrajaya, if the Israeli people would finally have the courage to vote for a governement that has the wisdom and determination to go conse- quently the way of reconciliation, I wouldn't be so pessimistic. Will they do it in the near future...?? Well, at least the polls are not very promising. Not very promising at all.

Just short time ago Syria was supplying Hezbollah with rockets to hit northern towns, there were reports that Assad is extremely hostile and that military confrontation in 2007 is almost unavoidable and now we found out that all this time it was a "peace partner" drafting such nice agreement. Smells like Oslo-the-Second

"Paulo refresh your memory please...in 1999 Barak offered the Palestinians an independent and sovereign state" - Hastaroth you did not read my post and you do not know what the words 'independent' and 'sovereign' means. A Palestinian state that is divided into cantons divided by Israel throughout is obviously not an 'independent' and/or 'sovereign' state. "Your memory doesnt match that of an elephant" - Now dont you look foolish, you need to take the attitude down a few notches because your brain is finding it hard to keep up.

UNDER NO CIRCUMSTANCES THE GOLAN SHOULD GO BACK TO SYRIA.

..."or in order to strengthen her grip on the West Bank..." Did you see that Israel separate agreement with Egypt (1979) and Jordan (in the early 80-s) in order to reach a just peace with Palestinian. Every separate agreement by any Arab countries would be in order to SAVE THEMSELVES from the mighty Israelis in the expence of Palestinian cause. Their grip on WEST BANK will be tighten even more. If it's true there is some secret agreements between Israel-Syria, that will finally make Israel concentrate fully on IRAN in the FINAL SHOWDOWN of the CENTURY.

The U.S. and Israel must understand that you have to be willing to negotiate with your adversaries before they acquiesce to your demands. Of course we should never sign a peace treaty with sponsors of terrorism or those who call for the eradication of our state. But we should never miss an opportunity to sit down and talk to determine if our adversaries might moderate their views. For all those who say our adversaries will never change, I point to the negotiated peace with Egypt and Jordan.

Just to take a logicl look at this proposal, the Syrians get back the Golan Heights to turn it into one big park for Israel sounds obsurd. 130 villages were uprooted and depopulated in the Golan Heights, I am pretty sure Syria would return the Refugees of the Golan Heights to their homes. And if this were true, then world politics make as much sense as a 5 year old can.

From an article written in 2004 by Geoffrey Aronson about the ( then) upcoming Gaza withdrawals :Title- " The Territorial Implications of Sharon's ' Disengagement Plan' " excerpt: " Israel intends to remain in control of the border area separating the Gaza Strip from Egypt. Israeli control over this area has been expanded during the intifada, and it is unlikely that it will be included in any unilateral deployment and settlement evacuation.Denying Palestinians sovereign control over this critical border significantly impairs their ability to fully exploit the advantages of an Israeli evacuation of all Gaza Strip settlements." ( entire article available at ... palestinecenter.org ) Aronson played an integral part in initiating these talks( see Haaretz article" Background" on this forum. Does anyone honestly think he has ISRAELI interests at heart? LOL Aronson's just a small piece of this whole rotten puzzle.

....IT IS A HOAX !!!!

It seems that the Israel's disinformation department has gone the same way as the IDF -- it has grown fat, lazy and unimaginative! There was a time when Israel could be relied upon to come up with a near-convincing lie. Not anymore it seems! This whole thing is so cringingly amateurish, it beggars belief that the editor of Ha'aretz saw fit to publish it. Or could it be that he had no choice in the matter???

Will end the same as the others peace accords, Israel losing vital strategic land to neighbors who will remain hostile in exchange for a piece of paper detailing their "commitments". That or maybe like Lebanon. Worse, like oslo.

It is very clear that secret contacts were and are going on between Israel and the Arab world. But it is also clear that this is no time for peace negotiations with the dictatorship in Damascus. In fact, with the aid of Iranian money, Syria has bought in Russia modern war equipment, among others a highly sophisticated air defence system, that will not only endanger the IAF when flying over Israel but even the planes of the US 6th Fleet. Further, Syria has formed new commando forces that will try to make deep advances into the Golan. It seems that Haaretz, having called on a weekly basis to reward the brutal regime in Syria, is trying to create politics on its own. This could destroy more what has been achieved secretly so far, than it will help Israel and the cause of peace.

so it's okay for syrians to peace talk with israelis - but forbidden to lebanese ?

Is Israel seeking an agreement with Syria in order to finally reach a just peace with her Palestinian neighbours or in order to strengthen her grip on the West Bank...?? I assume, even many Israelis won't know the answer today....

This whole thing sounds SOOOO implausible. It is designed to sow the seeds of doubt in Iranian minds about their Syrian ally. The real story here is about the US and Iran, not Syria & Israel.

I fully agree with David. Besides, Golan belonged to the original Mandate, the Britons and Frenchmen transferred it by the secret Sykes-Picot agreement to the Frenchmen. Another issue is that while Syria had Golan, they were unhappy with peace with Israel and repeatedly tried to get rid of peace. Now there is a relative peace and they don't need to worry about Golan, which, by the way is in the same manner Israeli soil as all the rest of the terrirtories, id est Jewish history since thousands of years back until present. Israel shall not break this continuum of life of Israeli Golan.

Just do it!

Golan is already a very nice park, with a wonderful ski resort, hotels, world class wine industry, apple orchards, beautiful spring wild flowers, rivers, hiking areas, unique flora & fauna, etc. etc. Why not keep it as it is & allow Syrian day trippers in to visit??