Israeli officials: U.K. support for Goldstone report may backfire

Killing civilians has never been a war crime. Deliberately targeting civilians is. Attacking military targets without taking reasonable precautions to protect civilians may be criminal. However, the standard for Israeli forces is much stricter than for its opponents. Israelis can take some succour in the fact that many Western countries are in the same position. There have been a number of incidents around the world where terrorists and local war lords have taken shelter among or behind alleged civilians and fired on Western troops. If the troops fire back they are accused of war crimes, if they don't they get killed. A no lose situation for the terrorists. The Nazis wanted Jews dead more than they wanted to win the war; perhaps there are ministers in the UK government who have similar predilections.

have alot of blood on their hands.UK support for goldstone WILL backfire on them as British soldiers now must be held accountable for ever action from the falklands to Afghanistan. The British are already receiving payback as their country is being hojacked by extremism.They no longer have free speech, Islamists have to approve and as the Guardian proved, they no longer have free press.Sharia is about to take over the country and it is probably karmic that Britian has sold its soul to negativity and false information that extremists teach.The british professors are so unaware it is frightening. england has lost its culture and its freedom now they will be held accountable for the many thousands of war crimes they have committed especially against the Jewish people

``I am also extremely distressed that Israeli Jews such as yourself feel that Great Britain was wrong in confronting Nazism`` (Written by Chris Linthwaite). Tell me Chris where have I wrote that it was wrong to confront Nazism It seems you have a habit of twisting other people words. But Chris if you like so much to twist my words Well let me get to your low level I am extremely distressed that a British such as yourself feel it is moral to kill hundreds of thousands of civilians in an aerial bombardment as long as it is done by the British!

Chris Linthwaite from UK Yes why don`t we let you investigate Here is an Article only a Day Old from BBCNews about your troops conduct and the big cover up, by the investigators ``Army Abuse Claims `Being Ignored``` http://news.bbc.co.uk/2/hi/uk_news/8301107.stm By the way Chris have you heard of ``Sunday Bloody Sunday``

Then why doesn't Israel investigate so called British crimes to provide itself with ammunition for when Israel ends up in the Hague? I am also extremely distressed that Israeli Jews such as yourself feel that Great Britain was wrong in confronting Naziism. Perhaps we are making the same mistake confronting Iran.

They threatened to not promote anyone in the army that tried to investigate. But the UK then goes and bashes israel. They should get the nobel prize for hypocricy. And the UN is a joke sri lanka is never investigated and the UK can do whatever they want since they have their own veto.

New report just out today that the UK didn't investigate hundreds of abuse claims against iraqis. The UK wanted to protect their military. So they can go across the world and kill thousands of iraqis and never investigate the abuse claims. No iraqis ever fired rockets at any uk towns. But then the UK has the never to lecture israel. Go investigate yourself you raging hypocrites. I will never visit the UK again.

Chris Linthwaite Playing Dumb Chris what does it matter that the United Kingdom had formally declared war on Germany Your target was German civilians, German towns, hundreds of thousands died in those bombardments not a thousand, but hoarded of thousands, this doesn`t go with accordance to any rule of war of any time, this goes with lack of rules! If our Israeli pilots are accused of War Crimes when they did everything to avoid civilian casualties in one of the most populated places in the world, then SO are your RAF members in Afghanistan and Iraq who do much less to avoid casualties, and unfortunately, the numbers of civilian casualties are talking! As for investigation we are doing our investigation you have missed, the Israeli Foreign ministry report a couple of weeks before the Goldstone report, but no one wants to wait they want to do the investigation in the UN, so Chris how about we do the investigation on British troops in the UN with out Britain getting out its veto. If we are at it why don`t we investigate the Chagos Archiplego issue too.

while completely oblivious to the fact that a TRULY moral army isn't as concerned about outside scrutiny. interesting that during the u.s. invasions of afghanistan and iraq, the military made a point of including the media... while prior to the gaza invasion, the idf made a point, to the extent of defying an order by the high court, of EXCLUDING it...and of making sure NONE of its soldier were carrying cameras, cellphones, or any other means of documenting what would took place? personally, i can't envision the uk engaging in anything similar to operation cast lead. precision airstrikes; yes... but NOT what occurred during the ground offensive. israel's argument isn't going to phase anyone, except those who anticipate having something to hide.

If the UK Government does not support the Goldstone Report it will be in huge trouble with much of its electorate.

..... is a simple fact: Israel expected the UK vote to be in its pocket, and this statement of Sawer's indicates very clearly that Israel was mistaken. "The Foreign Ministry convened an emergency meeting in light of Sawer's comments," That I do not doubt. This report just won't die, will it?

Please explain to me why you have a problem with one navy sinking another navy's warship when the two countries are at war. You seem to have an odd definition of appropriate behavior; aren't enemy warships fair game during wars?

I've read drivel from politicians before. But this takes the cake. The scary Goldstone recommendation is that Israel do an investigation of what its government employees actually did - a real transparent investigation, not a whitewash. The UK investigates when there are allegations against it employees. The US investigates when there are allegations against it employees. The Israeli practice of declaring itself "pure as driven snow" until faced with video evidence to the contrary and then declaring that "everybody does it, so its OK" is not the practice used by any other credible military in the world.

Brits intentionally bombed civilians explicitly breaking international laws governing the state of war between STATES - GC4 is applicable.- 17 Wasn't the GC4 signed in 1949? Is it retroactive? I scanned thru it and did not see any clause making it retroactive. Let u s know. In any case, wasn?t Coventry bombed first?

The UK is practical. What is in it for the Brits if they take a hard line against Israel? Less terrorist activity at home perhaps. Selling out Israel for a safer street back home. Buyin' a little time.

My hands are not dripping in blood I wasn't even born in WWII and the law Israel is alledged to have broken wasn't even on the statute books. So how you can use an example such as Dresden when comparing it to Cast Lead beats me.

Before making accusations, Britain should look at its role in creating the problems. It was given control over the Palestinian Mandate by the League of Nations, specifically to esablish a home for Jews. It gave away three-quarters of the land to a Hashemite king who was driven from Arabia by the Saud family. It actively prevented Jews from entering the remainder of the land, even when they were fleeing Hitler's ovens. And once Israel was declared a nation, it supported the Arab armies, even providing officers to lead them into battle against the Jews. There may be other events, but I would have to consult the history books rather than my own memories of the events.

out another country, make sure your hands aren't dripping with blood. BTW, I actually take great delight that Dresden was destroyed and I also take great delight that the US used the big one on the Japanese. When you destroy the enemy, you have to make sure they don't rise again in the same ugly fashion. I am sure all British feel the same way.

We as British, have the right to support the Palestinian cause. However let me equally add, that we are the leading hypocritical nation in the world, for we openly support the Palestinian cause, not because we side with them, oh no, we support them in contrast to Israel, because our politicians are constantly bribed by Arab countries to do so. This is a fact. We British have also become the laughing stock of the world because of our political correctness. When our citizens defend themselves against robbers in self defence, it is the defender who gets jailed and not the criminal. Just read the Daily Mail any day of the week and you?ll see what a bunch of idiots our leaders have become. We are against Israel because the same stupid politicians who administer our laws both National and International (Our famous Labour Party of course), have sold England down the drain and continue to do so. Personally on the Goldstone report, I say it is full of crap, and Hooray for to Israel for bravely defending itself. The Egyptians and many of the Gulf States are tired of the Palestinians. Lucky for then, that Israel hasn?t wiped them out completely. Palestinians have never missed an opportunity to miss an opportunity and continue to do so till this very day.

There would have been no commission or report is Israel had refrained from attacking UN offices, schools and warehouses in Gaza.

bibi is the best friend the islamist ever had

Israel is trying fear tactics to disway support for the excellent work of judge Goldstone is like telling people not to persecute criminal otherwise other criminals will be subjected to persecution.

What about the human right violations in muslim countries? What about women in muslim and african countries being sexually mutilated? What about muslim countries forcing people to live a certain way if they don't they go to jail and receive some form of physical punishment. What about honor killing? What about the continuous rocket attacks on the people of Israel. There would be a Palestinian state if the people truly wanted it and stopped with their dream of destroying Israel. We do not have to worry about suicide bombers, but if we did, these people who sponosor it would know a much harsher response than anything Israel has yet administered to these groups and people.

So Hillary Clinton was lying in London today when she referred to the special relationship between London and Washington being as strong as it ever has been. It is amusing that whenever anyone criticises Israel or says something which does not follow official Israeli policy the same old accusations are wheeled out. For your information the percentage of Moslems within the UK population is 3. Rest assured we are not going to be a hotbed of moslem fundementalism anytime soon. Israel has 20% moslem within its ranks. But that will be different won't it?

All nations commit war crimes, when at war. The Eropeans and other powerful nations just ingore the rules, when it interferes with their ability operate effectively. Even Nato air forces in Kosovo and Serbia committed war crimes. Of course the rules don't apply to the them.

It is way past time that the criminal activities of all countries be investigated and their leaders punished. That includes the crimes by the US and Britain against Iraq and Afghanistan where hundreds of thousands have died while their countries have been destroyed. That said, the leaders of Israel must also be put on trial for their crimes against the peoples of Lebanon, Gaza and the West Bank. Israel does not deserve a pass.

In the end for the death, it doesn't really matter whos bullet killed them, teirs or the ones from their ennemies, because eighter way the results remain the same.

Since GC4 was not written before 1949 and not in force until much later, it is difficult to understand why you think it is applicable to the RAF raids on Dresden. Thinking before posting such nonsense would save you much embarrassment.

With a loser for a PM and wavering daily on critical issues, Islamism and Sharia law on the rise, support for anti-Semites, I'd say alot is going to backfire beyond its support of the Goldstone Farse.

It does not makme a big difference where the report and Israels reaction are discussed.

Goldstone produced a viable report. The world, Israelis and Palestinians are entitled to a penetrating discussion. War crimes are violence against all humanity. To ratiionalize them or cover them up encourages proliferation. We are entitled to an open, honest discussion. Public relations, political wrangling and cover-up and media filtration do greater harm. It is time for the UN to move forward with a candid and open discussion. This is no longer an issue for just the Israelis, Palestinians and the USA to decide.

Why is everyone jumping up and down? The UK has always been anti-Israeli - at least they're consistant.No doubt if Britain had suffered 8,000 rockets from Irelnd the British Government would just smile and do nothing like it idto Dresden.

'"London is waging its own war against terror, and they might find themselves with their hands tied if they back Goldstone's recommendations," the Israeli officials said.' But the UK doesn't want to commit war crimes, unlike Israel. In any case, it knows that its hands are already tied by international laws.

Since January, over 700 INNOCENT Pakistani women and children have been murdered by US AND Brit drones. That does not include the thousands in Afghanistan and Iraq. How many more thousands will be murdered before a "Goldtone-style pre-determined" investigation proceeds and the great Nobel Peace Prize winner Barak Obama and PM Brown sit in the dock at the Hague facing a war crimes trial? http://www.nytimes.com/2009/05/11/world/asia/11karzai.html?_r=1 http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/world/13+drones+kill+10+civilians+for+one+militant-za-09 http://www.mediamouse.org/news/2009/04/us-drones-kill-687-pakistan-civilians.php

same for Israel,s war criminals or the US or france or spain. Just picking on Israeli war criminals is anti semitic. Cannot have that anymore than we can ignore war crimes regardless of the perpetrator,s background. Off with all their heads.

THOUSANDS of innocent Afghan,Pakistani,and Iraqi civilians have been murdered in drone attacks.Even the commanders, both Brit and American, have admitted it, And both Brit AND American commanders have admitted publicly they will continue to do so because,as US General Jim Jones stated, they "will not fight with one hand tied behind their backs" when the terrorists use civilians as human shields while at the same time he condemns Israel.SOUND FAMILIAR? If the Brits support Goldstone, then they should be prepared to lead by example, and allow their actions and mass murders to be subjected to the same set of pre-determined biased investigations. BRING IT ON! I can't wait to see Obama, the Nobel Peace Prize winner, and Brown in the dock at the Hague! http://www.foxnews.com/story/0,2933,541260,00.html?test=latestnews http://www.dawn.com/wps/wcm/connect/dawn-content-library/dawn/news/world/13+drones+kill+10+civilians+for+one+militant-za-09 http://www.paktribune.com/news/index.php?id=213490

Britain has had its own difficulties in dealing with terror while not breaking international law (condoning torture and extraordinary rendition by other states, for example). However these examples pale into insigificance compared to the Israeli invasion of Gaza. A comparable action by Britain might have been an invasion of Eire in response to the IRA attacking Northern Ireland targets from across the border....

mr sawer should look up the sinking of the belgrano for example ! there are at least 100,000 instances where britain is culpable. he should learn " as still tongue makes a wise head "

Thankyou for your kind words We fought against the most odious regimes to ever stalk the Earth, who attempted to wipe out a people because and only because of their religion. Your country sold Hitler Iron Ore and enabled the Holocaust to continue for a further two years. I can understand you not wishing to explore this, but if you were to bring a case against Montgomery to The Hague I am sure it would be considered. Although him been dead might cause some problems. But how Caen comes under the remiss of the Goldstone Report eludes me.

Indeed the nazi Coventry bombing was not less criminal than bombing of Dresden. Brits intentionally bombed civilians explicitly breaking international laws governing the state of war between STATES - GC4 is applicable. British killing efficiency was outstanding without any strategic benefit - just revenge.

That's what we're all really dying to hear. One of the most extreme Zionists posting here, and instead of helping to build the Israel he so loves, he's stuck in the land of eternal night. Come on Abs. It doesn't even matter if you can't afford an air ticket. They'll take you for free. Israel's just crying out for ardent Zionists like you. Why are you being so shy?

Notice that the soldiers were investigated, put in a court of law and found not guilty. What is wrong with Israel doing the same thing? Oh and they were Challenger Tanks not Chieftains. They were mothnballed in the 1980's. And they weren't tortured to death, they were given a kicking then let go, there is a video of it somewhere.. Comes to something wwhen you have to tell untruths to deflect from criticism of a Swedish Newspaper which had accused Israel of trading in Human Organs.

i must say i do read your posts because you do have knowledge but its application is spoiled because you want so much to provoke and annoy and despite all your protestations of innocence and fairness...you always let yourself down. Your mind is capaqble of so much more but you ruin yourself because your fundamental bigotry stops you from developing as a man. you think you see the bigger picture but you keep falling down.

it has nothing to do with firsters and seconders....forget yr simplistic meaningless labels... it has to do with commonsense and decency ie not singling israel and the jews out for scrutiny of every single issue whilst ignoring the far filthier underwear of the majority of other countries.

ion. All deaths caused by Brit forces there are illegal and should be investigated.Period.

Where are the criminal Brits who downed Belgrano, killed surrendering forces etc? Where are they who made excuses as friendly fire who killed women and children in Afganistan, Iraq, Bosnia etc

to death these 5 Basra youths . A Brit ,how else ,court acquitted British squaddies for torturing ,caused by ..throwing stones at their Chieftain tanks. A brit colonel stated on the BBC " A right decision. Our soldiers need to do their job without an overzealous officialdom peeking over their shoulders"

I agree with # 11 and disagree strongly with Dr Klien of #5. I'm pro-Israel and Pro-peace with professional experience in mid-east affairs...Dr Klien, you have become what many in America have despised and that's a "firster." In other words putting Israel first over your USA citizenship and the affluent and safe country to practice your medicine. Doc, times are changing stop contributing to AIPAC (nearly convicted of spying) and go to JStrett.org and get another view. Taxpayers are tired of U$A money $$ going to Israel for weapon systems.

don't wash . Hideous crimes commited by Britain both under the WW2 and currently in Iraq and Afghanistan won't be nullified by a Brit Ambassador uttering his drivel. Arrest surviving RAF pilots ,take their medals ,stop glorifying this inept British Marshal Montgomery who could only proceed in Normandy after carpet bombing a French city in which his tanks had got bogged down,killing untold number of French civilians. Your marrano servility crossbred with Albion perfidy is nauseating.

You are not calling for a boycott? Not even a small one? I would have thought that Barack Hussein Obama could show he is trying to extricate himself from Iraq and Afghanistan, so I think you are on a none starter there. George W Bush , Dick Cheney and Donald Rumsfeld now they would be a different matter, but then they could probably drop Israel in it to save their own skins, you know we were acting on intelligence provided by AIPAC sort of thing. I do find puzzling your delight in the prospect of Obama been imprisoned I have American friends who hate him, but he is their President and they treat him with the respect that the office confers. Your not really in the US are you?

I tell you what you investigate the allegations made in the Goldstone Report and we will investigate any allegations which you wish to make with the necessary eyewitness reports. We have nothing to hide, and it may be difficult even to decide which country's air force dropped which bomb. Another difficulty could be that we were acting under resolutions past in the United Nations, and I am pretty sure they gave us legal authority.

Under what statute would I sue the remaining members of the RAF, and government who ordered or took part in the attacks against a country which the United Kingdom had formally declared war on in accordance to the rules of war at the time? And what do the Dams raids have to do with the British Ambassador supporting the findings of the Goldstone Report and the need for Israel to investigate the allegations therein? Ad why haven't you sued the Swedish newspaper on behalf of Israel, as you appear to love them so much?

I notice when you mention Dresden you studiously avoid mentioning Coventry, from which the word coventrate comes from meaning destroy from the air. I also note that you mention Britain's role in Dresden, but make no mention of the fact that the United States Air Force followed up Britains night time bombing with daylight raids. You also make no attempt at setting out a case which I could take to my government as to why we shouldn't support the Goldstone Report. Also and this is important, what law of war did britain break when they bombed Dresden?

Yes, Hugh, but no matter how high you hold it up, it's still up your own backside. Suggest you open some history books matey.

In a strange twist it would help the US and UK more now to support the Goldstone report. With the change of tactics the US is now using in Afghanistan and Iraq it would be better for US to support report with a smaller downside to it now which could be limited further by courts. Hamas gains either way but solid support by Fatah could help it but would need to get rid of Abbas.

pilots who had flattened German towns ? Against the "Dam Busters" ,for drowning innocent workers from occupied countries ,forced by Germans to work in Ruhr ? No ? I thought so

1 justice for all.

2 wars in Iraq = 2M dead civilians 1 war in Afganistan - 1M dead civilians 1 war in Yoguslavia - 11,000 dead civilians in Belgrade in a single week Go to work now. Jolly good.

they have the experience in Dresden and Afghanistan...

Hey Klein, MOVE TO ISREAL ALREADY!! I know you have the right to your opinion, as I do mine: So put your money where your considerable mouth is and support Israel in person, not safe in California.

u r having a laugh ... justice would be joining forces with israel to defeat islamist terror aimed at wiping out all infidels

his country is practically absent from Afghanistan. Norway has nothing against American and British troops would defend the Holy Norway from the Menace from the East. A US Marine brigade is earmarked for defence of Telemarken ,in return Norwegians sent the whole 70 or so troops to Afghanistan ,none to the Helmand province where the heaviest fighting is going on.

You started legal proceedings against that newspaper who accused the Israeli Defence Force of killing Palestinians in order to harvest their organs yet? You served papers against any surviving Swedes involved in selling Iron Ore to Hitler's Germany yet? Thought not.

who is at this moment having dinner with the British Prime Minister complaining that it is just not fair. I also see that Israel is trying to show that most countries in the world are thinking the Goldstone report is illegitimate. Well I have news it appears that Planet Earth is going the other way. There are not many governments who can ignore this report without attracting the ire of their electorate. I would go as far as to say that Britain's announcement was probably a warning shot over Israel's bows telling them to investigate the allegations. Remembering that Britains position is unique, and has probably being sounding out the Commonwealth. Interesting times.

We are evil and we have global support to cover it up and let it go in circles forever, Britain with its bright history overseas and current day affairs should do the same and not speak a word or the UN will be pointing at them too ? is that about right ?

on trial for war crimes!

The premise that having to fear committing war crimes will prevent armies from defending its citizens or carrying out their duties falsely presumes that they must commit war crimes to doe so. The so-called war on terror does not give countries or its soldiers a green light to violate international law simply because they do not like them; if did so then so would everyone else, and then why even have international laws? If Israel or the USA feels that the laws that define war crimes need to be changed, then there are procedures they can follow to see about changing the Geneva Convention and other applicable international laws, but until changed the laws must be enforced.

What a serious attitude from Israel, "if we can not commit war crimes you can not either so please don't close this oppurtunity". One might hope that so called democratic countries would agree on not breaking international law, every time we show the palestinians and the rest of the poor countries that the law has no value for them we send them right in the arms of Al-Quadia and their alikes...

shooting civilians in Afghanistan ,supporting torture in Saudi Arabia ,even of British expats..this country should "urge"?!!!

Bravo Britain! It is very good to see that we in the UK have not lost our moral and ethical standards and can proudly hold our heads high among the western democratic countries who are waffling on war crimes.