Israeli Arab group proposes new 'multi-cultural' constitution

hey

The arabs are not second class citizens in Israel they just make very little effort to intergrate. An arab can vote An arab can travel on a bus with a jew An arab can do the same jobs as jews An arab can choose to serve in the millitary if they wish. An arab pays the same tax a jew no dhimitude An arab can visit the same places as a jew An arab can go to the same school or university as a jew & study all the same subjects An arab can freely practise any religion freely An arab can stand for the Knesset, there are about 12MKs including one of them in the cabinet itself. There are arabs in the Knesset like Jamal Zahalka who says that any Israeli arab who voulenteers for national sevice will be treated like a leper & vomited out of arab society. Instead of trying to intergrate we have arab MKS promoting arab isolation There are arab MKS like Bishara who during the Lebanon was aiding Hizbullah terrorists .. helping an enemy attack the country your a public servent of.

Bilingual & multicultural country rather than jewish The government can be slpit in such a way to strenghen arab minority issues relating to the charecter of the state. How much say in matters would would the now jewish minority state have? A end of the jewish law of return and replace it with a palestian right of return Assets of the waqf seized by arabs be return + compensation. How about a return of jeiwish property from arab lands stolen in 1948 The symbols would be decided by a Knesset House committe half of who would be arab or by 75% of arab MKS. Sound like its going to be the arabs that decide what the new symbols will be, how about the PLO flag. They forgot to tell us what the country would be called not Israel for sure also when will we gain admitance to the Arab Legue as we would be an arab state. All the arabs want to do is turn the jewish state into an arab state but doing it by using words like democracy and constiution.

why aall these people do not talk about all the jews which were expelled from arab countries and their assets seized. can they return and get compensation from arab countries ??? can jews live in riad as equalcitizen . Why people in dubail can leave if they are not from the emirates . why the arab countries do not accept even palestinian as equals ???why should israel accept if they are not accepted by the arabs countries.???? the palestinian left the country in 1948 at the request of the arab countries because the tought they woulld throw the jews in the see.the palestinian should ask their arabs brothers to help them and stop asking israel to do the job of the arab countries.

A constiution is needed to stop these kind of ideas but it must not be drawn up based on left wing politicly correct thinking where the idea is we havnt been very nice in the past, the arabs feel unwelcome and we should make them feel welcome make them feel more like equals, and stop this racist idea that Israel is a jewish state and be a binational state for everybody. There needs to be a consitution saying - Israel is aa democratic jewish state, its only officialy language is hebrew, the symbols of state are jewish ones. We dont impose jewish laws on anybody but they swear loyalty to what is a jewish state. Lets not make a mess of this constiution then spend the next 10 years talking about how we got it wrong and can we fix it.

Not a jewish state, arabs have soverignty in arab areas, refugees & millions of decendents come back and get given compensation, waqf gets property and compensation, symbols of state get chosen by knesset majority or 75% arab majority, end law of returns I dont hear anything being offered to the jews here other than those who are here can stay but there wont be anybody else coming in. Another arab state by the back door and the sad thing is Israels left wing politicly correct politicians, and the left wing jews will probably say its not a bad idea what is being proposed because its the poiiticly correct and just thing to do. Jews unfortunatly have a bad habbit of signing over their interests and then realising afterwards they have made a mistake but by that time its to late and thats what the peace process with the palestians is sell our interests today we will realise our mistake tommorow but by then it will be to late.

if this was ever actually happened, in 25 years the Palestinians would overpopulate the Jews and Israel would become the billionth Muslim country in the world... we can`t let that happen.-American #298 And why, can?t America let that happen? It wouldn?t affect us. Or is your loyalty the same as Pollard? Why not? As an American, it is of no interest to us as to who wins, and we have no stake in the outcome. America?s interest should be America, not Jewish or Arab. We have no reason for bias towards one or the other. Are you American or Jewish?

Okay, so we've gone through the abuses, one person's for, one person's against, the latter is silly ... One serious point has been made, number 107. Why does Israel turn into a multinational state ... AND Palestine gets it own state separate from that? Also, why are decision regarding the nations new symbolic parameters able to be decided automatically by a 75% agreement by Israeli Arab MKs? Can someone remind me: are Arabs the majority in Israel right now? If not, I think there needs to be som pre-emptive force just to reply to this new sort of arrogance.

Yo ain't foolin' nobody. Once burnt twice shy. Fopllw your advice yourself.

in the frontiers of 67 + multicultural? no no no no: it has to be in the frontier of 67 without arabs or one country for two peoples but no two country for arabs! this is just a joke this constitution isn't egalitary... israel is an hebrew state... if you want an hebrewo-arabic state, it will have to be extended from sinai to iraq, trough lebanese syrie and saoudia arabia... that all folks... and then this state will be able to be multicultural multiconfessionnal as an hebrew-arab global state...

The gentiles that you denied were serving in the Israeli Army desire to inform you that your ignorance is being displayed once again.-------------------------------------- The American Veterans of Israel United States and Canadian Volunteers in Israel's War of Independence The American Veterans of Israel, established in 1949, is a membership organization designed to sustain association among North American men and women, Jews and non-Jews, who served as volunteers during 1947-48 in the Haganah, Irgun Zvai Leumi and Lohamei Eretz Yisrael and in units of the Israel Defense Forces. The units in which they served included infantry, tanks, artillery, the navy and air force. Members also served on the ships of Aliya Bet bringing displaced persons to Palestine and then to Israel. In these they joined members of the Yishuv and volunteers from other countries including the Soviet Union, Sweden, England, South Africa and France, among others. ----------------------------- The National Office of the AVI is located at 136 E. 39th Street, New York, NY 10018. Contact: spiegelsi@aol.com. The AVI Newsletter is published four times a year and circulated to the membership. The current officers are as follows:

The gentiles that you denied were serving in the Israeli Army desire to inform you that your ignorance is being displayed once again.-------------------------------------- The American Veterans of Israel United States and Canadian Volunteers in Israel's War of Independence The American Veterans of Israel, established in 1949, is a membership organization designed to sustain association among North American men and women, Jews and non-Jews, who served as volunteers during 1947-48 in the Haganah, Irgun Zvai Leumi and Lohamei Eretz Yisrael and in units of the Israel Defense Forces. The units in which they served included infantry, tanks, artillery, the navy and air force. Members also served on the ships of Aliya Bet bringing displaced persons to Palestine and then to Israel. In these they joined members of the Yishuv and volunteers from other countries including the Soviet Union, Sweden, England, South Africa and France, among others. ----------------------------- The National Office of the AVI is located at 136 E. 39th Street, New York, NY 10018. Contact: spiegelsi@aol.com. The AVI Newsletter is published four times a year and circulated to the membership. The current officers are as follows:

Sullivan thinks he knows it all. Quite a few non-jews perished during the War of Liberation. Gentiles served in the IAF, IDF, and Chil Hayam. As a matter of fact, "REVEREND JOHN GRAUEL" was one of the prominent volunteers in the '48 war. The AVI (American Veterans of Israel) has an extensive data base listing many of the names. Sullivan failed as a psuedo Jew, Actor, Archaelogist, teacher, and has now shown he's a total failure at knowing Machal Gentiles served in Tzahal.

1) Did you address any of the facts I posted? Of course not? 2) Do some atrocities happen in war? Of course. 3) Does Israel have IDF soldiers in prison for abuse? Yes 4) Has the PA ever arrested, further more convicted Arabs for killing Jews. No 5) Int'l law says there's no Pal territory until borders are negotiated. 6) You named yourself after a gangster rapper who pushed violence and died that way. Great choice. My child, when you can't look at the full picture, and only chose just those items that support your contention that Jews are bad and Israel shouldn't exist, you are an anti-semite and a savage.

I perfectly understand the English language, at the end of the day, it's one of my mother tongues (just for your information, you spell your country "England" and not the way you spelt it, might want to check that, that goes for your spelling of Israel too) so don't lecture me on English! If you're trying to have an "intelligent" discussion (which I doubt) then you wouldn't compare Northern Ireland with Israel, but then again, you'd have to have a brain to work that one out. I suggest you do your homework before posting comments. And my claim that you're anti-Israeli isn't ludicrous at all.

Right or left, Jews in America haven't devoted themselves to changing the U.S. by blowing themselves up to effect the changes they desire. However, the Pali's and the other Islamofacists train their kids, from age 5 and up, that the way to bet what you want is to mindlessly kill the other fellow. Jews, for the most part, outside of Israel aren't under the constant threat of an Israeli Arab fifth column and attacks by homicidal maniacs on the other side of the "Wall". There's no comparison between Jews living in Israel & those living outside.

Michael Just go and read #555."We were always here". The reason I thought you may be a Muslim/Arab, and you may be,is because people come here with the most outlandish "names" and hide their true identity. Your fear for Israel's future in calling it sad etc,though commendable,does not apply thank you.Especially your comparison to Serbia is totally false and you are being disengenuous. Serbia like Jordan,Kuwait and more were artificially created countries.Israel was/is a permanent country no matter how in your assumptions try to "debunk" it. The Jews were in this land many decades ago,and if you refresh your memory a you will know that the early pioneers were cultivating the land,long before the "mandated" Israel in the 1900. If I may add,when the Jews were expelled by the Romans,not all "up and left" this our dear Jewish LAND. Some thought processes on your part is advisible. It is I who has the last LAUGH.... P/S Haaretz this is for Michael # 493

It's a nice proposition but totaly utopical. and I prefer to check very well before signing.

Israel is, will be, and was created as a refuge for Jews. God knows we need one, as our history--and NOT just the history of the Holocaust--amply demonstrates. Within that mission, Israel tries to give rights and citizenship to its Arab minority. That IS democracy, but the proposed new "multi-cultural constitution is a suicide note. If it passes, Israel dies, Jews die, our last, best hope and refuge dies. But, I feel the Israel Arab's pain. Let's take a page from America's treatment of its Native Americans. Give them casinos.

Israel is declared a "Jewish" state but there is nowhere a definition on what basis, religion or race. By race: some of todays Jews claim there being Jewish on matrilineal descent yet biblical times clearly refered to patrilineal descent. Doesn't G_d's promis to Abraham and HIS descendants automatically reject the idea of matrilineal descent? Who is a Jew? http://judaism.about.com/od/whoisajew/a/whoisjewdescent.htm Ten Lost Tribes http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Lost_Ten_Tribes#Samaritans and there are the Israelites also http://www.hebrewisraelites.org/ By religion? People can convert to another religion, regardless of race What definition of being Jewish is the basis of this Jewish state??? BTW: Not all arabs are muslim and not all muslim are arabs - you all should stop mixing religion with race or culture the way it suits best

we were always in israel look at safed,hebron,jerusalem, eversince the roman empire my family was in israel!!!!!!!!!!!!!

SHAME ON YOU SAYING JEWS SHOULD LEAVE ISRAEL. ISRAEL IS JEWISH AND ALWAYS WILL BE JEWISH AS KORAN SAYS. ISRAEL GIVES MORE ADALA TO ISRAELI ARABS WHILE ARABS/MUSLIM COUNTRY GAVE ZERO ZERO ADALA TO JEWS.

'It`s a country based on a righteous premise but governed with malice and greed. ' Which country couldn't be described like this?

Kath, all in all I wouldn't be as pessimistic as you are, what they need is some (positive) inspira- tion from the West (and I don't mean $$$$ with that...). Look, no doubt, Israel could be an example for the Arabs in the region, at least when it comes to freedom of speech, free press, womans rights etc.... But Israel has to learn to "sell herself" a lot better, in order to be seen as the shining example. A bold offer from Mr. Olmert would be the start signal for a better future in the ME. Why allow the Arab dictators any longer the all-time excuse of the "evil Israel"...?? Take them away their favourite clothes and they will look like what they are: Ridicolous emperors. Cheers.

You are right, Kath, I did not remember the British did not accomplished their commitment.

They arw hostile for many reasons. They never accepted the Israeli state from the start and have a very different lifestyle from us or you. They are hostile in other countries too, you saw the evidence, but you never mention the 20.000 Israelis who got killed in the last 60 years. That tells me something.....

How does that square with your:- "The a load of BS pal...Israeli Arabs are only represented as high as the Knesset. They are forbidden by Israeli law from holding a higher office than an MK. Get your facts straight." Not to mention Arabs in public service health education judiciary foreign sertvice etc Are you ignorant or in denial?

"So surprise the hell out of everybody. Return to the boundries set by the UN." Are you asking on behalf of the Arab states who, in launching a war, tried to prevent the UN partition in the first place? "The Arab world was not offered the partition plan as a minimum to which it could return should its military efforts to abort it did not succeed."- M.S. Arnoni

Another Goebbel's style big lie shown for what it is: De Mock Racy. Take your Jewish theocracy and stick it where the sun don't shine. When you accept goys as being equal to jews, and stop teaching they're less than animals, then you can start talking about being a light unto the earth.

Danite, Good morning, I just saw a note to me from an Aby in TA (any men in that city?) and she raised my curiosity about the Arab-Israelis by saying they do nothing and contribute nothing. What do these Arabs actually do, work at, etc in Israel or is it as she said they do absolutely nothing? I'll go along with you for un steamé but on condtion that you don't try to make me eat la poutine which should be outlawed.

"Israeli Arabs are represented at every level in the Israeli Govenment." The a load of BS pal...Israeli Arabs are only represented as high as the Knesset. They are forbidden by Israeli law from holding a higher office than an MK. Get your facts straight. Racism is huge in Israel. And not just between Jews and Arab Christians and Muslims. But between European Jews and the Sephardic Jews. On top of rampant racism. Israel has class struggles amongst it's own people. And on top of it all the Israeli government has been corrupt since day one. It's a country based on a righteous premise but governed with malice and greed. I agree with you that it's a very complicated situation over there. But it does not mean that racism is the correct avenue to combat a difficult situation. Unfortunately many Israelis believe that walking the correct moral path will endanger their security as a nation.

Don't be so ridiculous as to be insulted by people being too lazy to type Palestinians when it's a word most speakers of Arabic can't even manage to pronounce properly.

A Jewish ghetto would be characterised by having members of no other religion. That's the meaning of ghetto. Like for example, Saudia is a Moslem ghetto. Since 20% of Israel's population is not Jewish the new knowledge you boast of is not very impressive. Ghetto the message?

Remember legal challenges work in Israel and Israeli Arabs are represented at every level in the Israeli Govenment. For a nation under continuous attack Israeli democracy is OK.

What you are not saying is that here in the States we are still apologizing and making amends as a country for the racially motivated subjugation of various minority groups by our government in the past. We don't do that crap anymore. We have evolved into better society since then. We Americans are far from perfect and we have quite a ways to go as far as civil rights are concerned. The one questioned you have not answered is why is the minority hostile? Personally I don't really know if it matters if Israel respects it's Arab citizens or the Pals. Who by population are more than 25% Christian. I just want Israel to be honest with Americans as to their true intentions regarding the Arab Christians and Muslims. If you look at the overall death toll of just women and children under the age of twelve since day one the "Israeli Victim" scenario does not hold much water. I just wish they would quit lying about being a democracy.

In oreder to have a Jewish Nation it should be a Jewish Democracy only. Since there are 12 tribe of Jews it would Have mulitple race but only Jewish. The United State started out mainly to be a Christian nation because it was based on God's Laws and teachings.

When a majority fears its minority, its government acts to protect the population. The Americans interred the Japnese, the British exiled the German nationalities to Australia. Never mind that a lot were Jewish. The Israelis have a hostile minority and are trying to live with them. There are doctors and academics from the minority group etc. It is a difficult situation that you dont seem to understand.

Most of these pro-Arab anti-Israeli claims r bolderdash. Written by people who r ideologues for the other side without any reference to reality.Why is Israel not democratic? Can u show me a country that treats its potential 5th column with softer kid gloves than Israel? Is there a historic must? Did not the USSR think so and proven it to be a false proposition? Only good things will happen to Israeli Arabs if they get up the courage to say-- "We will not do the caliphate's dirty work". Finally, Jews that r citizens of other countries and work for its governments r not Israel 5th column. People who think that way usually turn out to be the 5th column; remember Dreyfuys or Deladier?

"All Democracies are not the same." Exactly....But Israel is not a Democracy.. A democracy offers equality to all citizens under the law. Israel is a theocracy just like Saudi Arabia, the Vatican City, and even the former Taliban. I really should not lump the Catholics in with Israel..They don't torture and murder people. But Saudi Arabia does. I wish Israel was a democracy..But it's not..They're just pretending to be one for public relations purposes..It's a good way to sucker Americans out of their cash. It's easy to tell a democracy. The formula is simple: One Person-One Vote and equality under the law. And that's not Israel..Get honest with your self.

Another comment for you on the Editorial forum of yeterday (on settlements). I hope Haaretz allows them to be posted.

You Israelis should stop fooling yourselves. If you had stolen Christian European land to build your artificial state, you would not have lasted this long!

Joe, The simple fact that the ideas contained in the report issued by the Arab advocacy center were presented without censorship or any kind of retaliation does consitute a sign that Israel democracy is working. What just happened is Egypt now ? A poor felow was sent to prision for publishin an anti-Mubarak blog !!! Regarding the process of being bias toward muslims citizens around the world. Pleae be advised that I am against any form of racism. But I would dare to say that u r comiting the same mistake when u do demonise the entire jew population of Israel.

"It is a Jewish State, established by agreement between countries of the UN. It will never be a multicultural state and no one has the right to ask or expect it to be. All Democracies are not the same." So surprise the hell out of everybody. Return to the boundries set by the UN. Or is there some UN agreement I'm not aware of? The one that defines Israel as a Jewish state consisting of all the land and territory the Jews care to take in Palestine, Syria, and perhaps Jordan and Lebanon when they get around to it? That would seem to be the one you're referring to -- but I can't find the declaration. As to all democracies not being the same. No doubt true -- but then, Israel's not a democracy. What's the relevance of that observation?

Thankyou for the reference.

Clap, clap, clap. But look at the response to this proposal. Is there any way out but armed struggle?

...and look at the response. Well, clearly there is no negotiating partner -- but it's also clear who that is. The Palestinians should give up. What's the point of even trying to talk?

Dear Cipora, I do not share their views. And of course this, I am aware, that this is another attempt to embarasse Isreael status. But indeed is ironic !!! Just look around all ME countries !! Most of the time, whenever someone wants to present his opinion, it comes with an implicit or explicit threat. The great irony is that Israeli arabs had learned how to express their point without: violence incitment, suicide bombers, militia support, etc .. Who would tell that first succescful arab democracy experience would come from within Israel ? I am fully aware that Israel State is the most precious treasure for all Jews worldwide. Furthermore is a safeguard for our existance. But if Israel arabs do express themselves according to the law !!! Well, that is part of the democracy game ....

It is a Jewish State, established by agreement between countries of the UN. It will never be a multicultural state and no one has the right to ask or expect it to be. All Democracies are not the same.

Yes! Israel is a Jewish state! May she remain that way! May she also now face the most difficult task of her existance: making the Jewish state into one which respects other faiths and non-Jewish peoples and extends to them all the rights and priviledges that are preserved for Jews. In this way Israel will live up to her heritage as a state of, by, and for the Jews - and for others, as well. Else, she will sink into the oblivion characterized by her neighbor states and degenerate into a Jewish ghetto amongs Muslim ghettos, and adopt her own version of Sharia Law with all the dhimmi characteristics her neighbors enjoy.

I think that the JEWISH GOD would say: My people are returning home.

l'chaim l'Yirael! As for Sharia Law, anyone who wants to live in the 14th century can have it! As for muslim dictatorships, I don't think it will be necessary for me to tell them they will have to accomodate Jews. They already know the truth, even if they won't admit it - yet. Shalom

You have hit the nail on the head. Totally beautiful, thanks for speaking for me.

The occupation -- and the settlements in occupied terroritory -- have made a Palestinian state an impossibility. You all know this is the fact. Israel will not survive unless it survives as a state for ALL of its people. A right-wing, European theocracy cannot possibly last the century. The days of colonization are over and have been over for a long time. The "Jewish" state is a failure. 60 years of never ending war. The Jews have lost their humanity -- for what? The Jews have sacrificed their souls -- for what? Can the Jewish God actually be pleased with what the Jews have done and what the Jews have become?

A great idea, just a bit before its time. But it certainly would give all concerned something to work for over the next hundred years. Until then, it does appear to be more of an attempt at humor than a serious proposal.

Exactly right!! Now if you could just tell me why obssessed idiot leftists can't figure that one out, I will be able to sleep at night. I may as well tell my black cat it has to become a white cat. Just as absurd.

erratum Please change my response for #481 to #495

Then, you should realize the "Great Lie".

Thank you for your courteous reply, Gabe1. May your lucky days increase without number! No, I am not the Sh-S site darling. Hardly that! It has taken me almost a year to work my way out of Western propaganda and to begin to see the ME situation in a more balanced light. Sh-S.net has been responsible for that. So maybe this is why you see me as anti-semitic, by which I suppose you mean anti-arab since I have never expressed any but good feelings for Israel. True, I have criticized them, but only because I do care for them. Fortunately, I have listened to some Lebanese/Jordanian and recently some convincing Palestinian opinions on Sh-S net, too. And I am learning to like and respect others in Israel/Palestine as well as the Jews/Israelis/Zionists. My hopes are for the emergence of a Palestinian State. cheers

Old saying, You can fool some of the people all of the time, all of the people some of the time, but you can't fool all of the people all of the time. Once in a while I get fooled, but yank myself back to reality.

It is THEIR culture. No one has the right to demand they change their culture to satisfy you or me or anyone else. Do we ask the Spainish to change their culture? Do we ask any other country to do this? Hell no, we don't. It is not our right to force anyone to live by our definition of Democracy. We don't ask the Russians to chnge their form of Democracy. Who are we to decide for them how they should live or believe. Israel IS a Jewish State, the rest of the world gave them that, at least according to the UN. They are not going to chnge their culture for anyone, that is my feeling on the matter. People are just too obssessed with the notion they HAVE to stop being Jewish.

I think what makes me so crazy is the fact that acceptance is what the left espouses and yet they bitch about one small State. I believe they have become obssessed and forget the State of Israel was established to be just what it is, a Jewish State. And, I might add, they have earned the right to keep it that way and defend that right. Period. :)

"because I fear for Israel's future". You are free to leave, because Israel is alive and well. Please find another people to fear for. Possibly the Christians in Indonesia, or the Black people in Darfur? Somehow I suspect you will not disappear as where else can you taunt Jews so easily.

No, I was not aware of the facts you mention. Ministry of Religious Affairs, huh? Innocuous title, is it not? But the statistics you quote tell the story. Better that Israel not have any department or section of its government devoted to religious affairs at all! I am of the opinion that the more secular the government, the less its people will use religion as an excuse for government policies, and the more Israel will be able to fulfill its moral obligations to its people - obligations that took the Jews centurioes to formulate into a rock-hard code which is respected around the globe. Except, perhaps, among the school children who get the short end of the stick. cheers and shalom

Dino hello Just a short one that I will only point out your last sentence: We shouldn't always deny the Arabs the capability of doing a better job. Dino,what are you saying friend.It is precisely because they are just that.Incapable of doing anything worthwile and haven't shown anything to advance themselves up till now. There is the saying that goes like this: "The proof of the pudding is in the eating" If you get the meaning(a very english saying). After all the help they have been getting from Europe,the rest of the world too,shows you this fact,and no need to elaborate,or be-labour it any further.Vain hope.They always want more,and are in the queue with their begging bowl. Before I go,let me assure you this latest adventure will slam in their face for its audacity.Whaaaat? A state within a state?? I give up! Bon Nuit to you

This renovated version of a previouly-procreated notion of a bilingual-multicultural Israelistine or Palesrael is simply ludicrous. Not only will there be a sizable proportion from both sides who will reject the idea, but the idea itself is flawed: the main purpose for the existence of Israel is to rightfully provide the Jewish people with a homeland of their own on this vast Earth. The Jewish character is essential to the uniqueness and preservation of Israel as envisaged since its creation. If it becomes multicultural, this distinctive character is destroyed. Meanwhile i am sure the Palestine envisaged by the araboo would profess the primacy of Arabic as a language and Islam as a religion and wont accept Hebrew or Judaism as a second official langue or religion (n.b. the other 22 araboo muppet-states all have non-Arab minorities whose langues and beliefs are oppressed let alone recognized). Yet another flagrant, mendacious araboo media tactic that merely highlights their hypocrisy.

its' all about a "JEWISH" state. All this deception and manupulating is not going to change this fact. Accept it, as this is Israel, and they have one speck of a country that is theirs and theirs forever. Israeli Palestinians wanting Sharia law can move to 22 other countries in the ME, Israel is the only country for Jews. Please tell the muslim dictatorships to change their constitutions to accomodate the JEWS!!

thanks dino for proving my point. Yes you control population to protect your balance. So should I go to a Swiss site and scream rascist? Of course not, but this is my point. The dregs of society come hear using the excuse zionist to really articulate their anti-semitism. Also, the 20% is a misconception. Included of course are the scientists, physicians, etc. etc. invited - always. The foreign ones with a one way ticket home. Possibly things have changed, as I have not been there for several years. I was there, three times a year for about 20 years. Business trips. No I don't miss rosti, nor your biting geese. I like to flush a toilet when I want to. Once had a mob banging on my windows (both hands), years ago because I didn't turn my motor off when I stopped to look at the street signs. The German part of Switzerland, of course. Do miss the fondue.

Ah! But if the present day palestinians stayed in Israel as second class citizens after Palestine became a recognized separate state, they could work toward putting an end to racism in Israel - along with a lot of other Israelis who hate racism for what it is. The time is ripe for just such an eventuality. shalom

Tupac germany got back her land in chunks and it certainly was occupied by the allied forces for a few decades, and east germany was released due to collapse of soviet empire. Germany paid heavy reparations. Mostly germany was bolstered in order to stave of the communists which the allies feared. 1967 is a different story, the arab aggressors lost populated land. Had it been empty or near empty no one would talk about 67 borders. would have been left to israel as spoils of war. This is why syria has a hard time with her case over golan to the world. She attacked, lost land, absorbed her own people back as she attacked, can't get it back presently, might never. The secret to any battle or war, is to ask what you are willing to loose if you possibly don't win. As you see the US in Iraq is finding this out now

Thank you for replying. You have indicated a subtle distinction here between Jewish character and the practices of the Israeli State. The failure to integrate Arabs into secular society is complicated by the waving of religious flags. This only confuses the issue. I mean it attempts to make a religious issue out of what should be a purely secular problem. It has taken me almost a year of commnicating with Israelis, Palestinians, Lebanese, and Jordanians alike to fathom my way through this murky mess. So thanks for letting me hear your thoughts on what is preventing the emergence of a true democracy in Israel. Shalom

We should all be grateful to the tireless efforts of Jews in whatever goyem country they reside in promoting equality, diveristy,secularism, open borders and all the goodies that good ole fashion liberalism entails..and I for one speaking for what they have done in America is truly appreciative of the work done by the ACLU and other organizations just to name one example. I happen to share many of the liberal positions but that does not absolve the hard right Jews who trip over themselves demonizing Arabs and all Muslims. The point is, how ironic Jews - or Zionists to be more accurate, reject the very things that Jews OUTSIDE of Israel promote tirelessly on behalf of all people, religions, alternative lifestyles or sexual orientation and yet they can't find the moral imperative to demand of themselves WHAT THEY PREACH TO OTHERS all the time? I argue democracy will save Israel but Zionists argue democracy will destroy Israel from within? Who is right? Does it matter since we are all going to die in the end? Ahh, well, that seems to be the Zionist position, democracy shmocracy, where of all places, in the "Jewish state".

In all the history of the world, Jews have never demanded anything of this sort. In fact, I would challenge anybody to name any time in history that Jews have "demanded" anything as a minority (except normal citizenship).

Thank you for your reply. Well, you may well be right about the occupation of the West Bank. On everything else I can only say that I agree 100%. BTW, during your earlier post you did not mention that Switzerland has managed to stay out of wars probably longer than any nation in Europe. Perhaps your canton system has something to do with that? I read into your post a definite Swiss tendency toward decentralization of government together with a certain contenment that that is the way things ought to be. Cheers

For those of you who may not have noticed, I'm being sarcastic. I thought that democracy meant having a vote and having representatives in the government! But a minority having a veto? And what right do they have to the state's identity? Israel was funded DESPITE them, not with their help. If Israeli Arabs were really so oppressed, their leaders would not have the gall to propose something like this.

It is true that Arab Israeli do not have equal opportunity, but the fact that they are not integrated into society is at least as much their desire as that of the Jews. They prefer to send their children to Arab school, where they are taught in Arabic, where English is a second language and Hebrew third. And while it is true that Arabic is an official language in Israel, the facts on the ground are that one must be able to communicate easily in Hebrew - though I am compelled to say that it is perhaps easier to exist in Israel speaking English than it is speaking Arabic.

I would not call what they are doing an exercise in democracy. They are attempting to destroy the state from within.

I left you an answer on yesterday's comments on defrauding gentiles. See yesterday's Editorial "legitimization of land theft". (I hope Haaretz publishes. If not, next time.

Ben Jabo, Best suggestion all day!

I know that it had been tried. The truth of the matter is that I am not sure there is any other solution. As I said, at least then, if attacked, Israel could fight back with all that she has. Otherwise, I see an endless status quo, leading to more recrimination and finger pointing. There is no peace partner on the other side, and there never will be. Therefore, a negotiated settlement is not on the horizon--not now, nor any time in the future. Israeel is left with the only option, namely, to act unilaterally.

At my age I don't get many lucky days or to rephrase it I don't get lucky on many days. Piss stands for peace Arab style. I can look at the end of the day and within 5 minutes can see all of the 10 or less posts. I am however intrigued by your Anti Semitic postings. You must be the SS site darling.

I feel free to criticize Israel because I love Israel, and for no other reason. And I expect the same treatment from my Jewish colleagues (and BTW I often get it full blast). So! You see me as a Jew hater??? I do not understand that. Shalom

"I KNOW YOU MUST BE ARAB,OTHERWISE YOU WOULD NOT SPEAK FROM THE "SIDE OF YOUR MOUTH" Well, admittedly the racist caricature isn't that funny, but the idea that I have to be an Arab just because I point out that most modern Israelis are descended from people who left Israel over a thousand years ago, is laughably absurd. Sad. But undeniably funny, in a twisted kind of way. Having said that, with people like you around and Tartman and Lieberman, I fear for Israel's future. It's like Serbia in the early 1990s all over again.

It almost funny and ironic that only place in ME that arab learned and actually know how to exercise democracy is the Israel State.

I said the Troubles were in Northern Ireland, not in Engalnd. If you understand the English language, that is not the same as saying England had nothing to do with them. That would be as ludicrous as you accusing me of anti-zionist/anti-Isreal rhetoric. I'm just trying to have an intelligent discussion. Why don't you try the same? You might enjoy it.

Yes, jp, the miracle of life. Hope it didn't come as too much of a shock to you, my juvenile friend...

I knew sooner or later you would come out of the rotten woodwork. Have you not heard PISS has broken out on SS site and Margie and Steph are drafting the agreement or surrender depending where you sit. As a result of poor attendance on that SS site, and I question your loyalty there, most of the 5 posters have moved to Haaretz. And they including you had little to say there and even less here. So give your fingers and brain(I just hate lying in your case)a rest and chill out, way out.

When the Arab world dissolves all 22 of its own ethnically-based states, founded at the expense of non-Arabs including Kurds, Copts, Assyrians, Berbers and the now ethnically cleansed Mizrahi Jews, then we can talk about dismantling the one and only Jewish state. Remove the word "Arab" from the constitutions of these states, so that the long-suffering minorities in these states can achieve equal rights in truly democratic societies. Until such a miracle happens, the Adalah proposal is just so much hypocrisy.

Jacob Blues, don't you get it, I try to learn from your (Israels) mistakes. For my private life...:)

Boycott, don't worry, those who wanna leave Israel and build something up in Palestine will get plenty of $$$$$ from Europe, Japan and the U.S...... All they have to do then is to take care, that the money will go to them and not to corrupt officials. But to build up a new Palestinian state with as little corruption as possible, is only their problem, not mine.... We shouldn't always deny the Arabs the capabi- lity of doing a better job.

Now that I have in a lengthy way described to you the Scandinavian model, I hope you understand that the Jewish faith and the Jewish identity are unseparable units of the Israeli state; they do NOT make Israel racist in any way nor shut out multi-culturalism and tolerance for non-Jewish minorities. BUT as Michael O in his letter #333 very honestly puts it; "when and if the minorities start demanding the foundations of the society to be replaced with THEIR own laws" (for ex.: the Moslems in Sweden last spring campaigned to have the "honour-killing" made legal!), which would overthrow the democratic foundations of the state, "then the majority WILL protest"! THIS IL-Arab "multi-cultural constitution" is a similar distortion of the JEWISH society as the "honour-killing" was of the HUMAN RIGHTS-Swedish society. WE, who LOVE our democratic societies have an OBLIGATION to protect and to defend their foundations from such distortions!

Yes, Lynn. Israel is and will always be a Jewish state. And no, they don't have to change themselves to please anyone on the planet but themselves. But you are quite wrong when you say that this does not affect me. Yes, I live in Tennessee; but I love Israel and it hurts me to see her engage in any enterprise that contradicts her own long established moral principles. If you are a parent you will understand what I mean. Not that I claim to be Israel's parent. Rather I am her child, born and bred a Christian who loves and respects my religious, cultural, and historical origins, all of which are epitomized in Israel today. For which I am joyful, but often sad. Shalom

Were you aware that Israel has a "Ministry of Religious Affairs". I could be wrong but in my sixty years I have never been in or heard of a democracy that had or has such an institution. What is really disturbing about this Ministry is that it caters almost exclusively to one group ??. In the area of edu Israeli Jewish Pupils can get additional funding thru grants from said ministry and their Arabs counterparts can ?. well I will let you make your own conclusion.Incidentally if you look up the Israeli Central Bureau of Statistics for 2004 you will find that funding available to Arab Pupils is circa one quarter of their Jewish counterparts and that coupled with the grants from the Ministry of Religious Affairs puts the ratio at twelve to one. Equal Treatment huh.

Your claim that England had nothing to do with the Troubles in Northern Ireland is one of the most dumbfounded I've heard of, but then again, so is your anti-Israel/ anti-Zionist rhetoric! Your forefathers colonised the island of Ireland, not content with your own United Kingdom of Scotland, England and Wales, and then carried on to treat the Irish as inferiors even after Northern Ireland was created. Israeli Arabs are miles more equal citizens than the Irish in Northern Ireland ever were until the 1970s, even though they represented 30-40 percent of the total population! Don't compare Israel and Northern Ireland because there is nothing in common!

"If the Palestinians got their state, the Arab-Israelis will have a free choice, whether they want to stay in Israel or go for the new challenge in Palestine." So they can stay as second-class citizens of a racist state or they can leave their homes, jobs and families? Some choice! What a cop-out!

Look on the bright side. You will never have to lie again about being the only "Democracy" in the ME.The rest of your fears must be a sympton of all that fog.

..There is a huge difference between wanting to be integrated into a country & wanting to take it over.. "Multicultural Constitution" is that `introduced` concept, one of many steps of that slow but eventually visional takeover. The `pecking` takeover as opposed to fast & furious `by force` takeover that the Arab world tried & could not make it work. The `pecking` concept is when something is `pecked & pecked at` for the continuous, long time, reducing, marginalizing & weakening the object of takeover while strengthening yourself at the same time, to the point of finally being able to take the object over. It can be accomplished through so many steps than: internally as exhibited, through hydra system of terror & bogus promises, conning & `colorful` lies at the same time, through education system & religious brainwashing, around the world `head in the sand, moral compass templates` & `mouth of blind/deaf hopples causes`, but mainly through the biased media & deceiving agendas.

KUTW Correct me if I am wrong,but the 80% of what is now Jordan,was not meant to be a part of Palestinians.To begin with there were no such people called Arab Palestinians,and Jordan was just artificially created by the British.And therefore does not come under any equation whatever. To proceed.Since Jordan is an artificially crated country as you are aware,that country was to be part of Israel,but the British in their devious way,changed their charter and Israel lost a big chunk of land. Sure I am not mistaken,and if I am,no doubt someone here will be only too pleased to jump down my throat!! Nice to talk with you again.We have been too busy talking about Jesus and the Ossuaries on the other forum.And there is only so much time one can spare. Asta la vista p/s haaretz this is for #450 KUTW

Israeli jews would become minority in their own state in couple of decades. In Israel, Arabs already have demographic grown stronger then Jews. With this constitution, jews would lose their state. Eventualy, Hamas goal (Islamic republic of Palestine from Mediterranean sea to Jordan river) would be accomplish.

I agree with you that civil law ought to remain secular. I don't think Israel is right in allowing religion, any religion, to have any say in civil matters. What I mean is that there isn't Jewish discrimination against Muslims or Christians; that freedom of religion is completely protected. My contention is that it isn't Israel's Jewish character that is preventing it from being a true democracy. Arabs not being fully integrated into secular society, and consequently not having equal oppotunities, is what is preventing that.

So! Israel is a Jewsih state! As long as that definition holds Israel MUST either discriminate between Jews and non-Jews or else she muat devise a non-discriminatory, yet Jewish, policy. Is that possible under the present circumstances? Is that possible at all? From what I have read, the ultra orthodox do not simply ride certain busses; they commandeer them! And the law lets them get away with it. This is not discriminatory??? Pooh! It is a farce! Shalom

get equal rights too. your nuts. You tell me how I am a traitor simply because I refuse to accept that arabs living within Israel should have equal rights as long as the majority of the arab world continues to voice their JIHAD on the "occupiers". I dont see bush changing the constitution to afford mexicans equal rights,,,in fact, have u noticed that our wonderful country of American has begun to place a similar fence like in Israel.

Jim, as much as I admire your idealism, as a Swiss pragmatist, I would tell you this: If the Israelis are finally willing to end the occupation and give the Palestinians a fair share of the land (Geneva initiative), that should be good enough for us. Whether they prefer to have their state more laical, or more influenced by religion should not be our business. The Jewish people had to wait a long time till they got a place that they can call their home, so we shouldn't play the "spoilers" here. If the Palestinians got their state, the Arab-Israelis will have a free choice, whether they want to stay in Israel or go for the new challenge in Palestine. Therefore, the bottomline for me: On the day the occupation of the West Bank comes to an end, I will quit my "job" here, and try to find another way to make my living...:) Cheers.

You say: "Religious law in Israel viv-a-vis personal civil matters applies to each denomination separately, and so doesn`t constitute religious discrimination." But JB, the fact that there are different laws for different folks IS discrimination! The only way out of that dilemma is to guarantee that civil law remains strictly secular. When religious leaders start making law, the inevitable result is discrimination. What do you think all this turmoil in the ME is all about?

This is hilarious. I am glad to see they still have a sense of humor. I wonder when they are going to bring out their real proposal.

I agree and Israel had better see sooner than later that it could all implode if they continue on the track they are on.I am not convinced by the actions of sucessive Israeli Governments that they want anything but a greater Israel.That too will consume them.

The so-called refugees? problem should have been solved by the Arab attackers who enticed them to leave Israel (not to mention those who left on their own accord). Moreover, in 1949, in the course of talks for peace, Israel offered the Arab attackers the right to return for the pals or to give them compensations, which the Arabs refused because it meant the recognition of Israel. Moreover, they say they belong to the great Arab nation. Why don?t they move to the many Arab countries which exist? But there is even more. The pals claim they want a state of their own. Jordan seized and annexed over 80% of what was intended to be the pal state. The pals can claim it. And this is not all. Israel gave them Gaza. Why don?t they move there either? It is crystal clear the pals want the entire land, Israel proper included, for themselves, which is in accordance with their charters. I hope the Israelis won't fall for it.

Bev, with all due respect, but I must say, it takes quite a bit of Chutzpah to bring my beloved country in connection with the ugly word "dictatorship"...:). Did you know that there is not a country in Europe with a nearly high share of foreigners than Switzerland (around 20 %)...?? Do you understand now, why our immigration laws have to be a little bit tougher...?? Otherwise, Swiss-German language bye, bye, in a few years... No thanks. All you have to know are the names of our 26 cantons and the words of our national hymn. (You don't even have to sing it...) Not really asked for too much, is it...?? By the way, I hope you liked our "Rösti" (potatoes)....

1. The day Saudi Arabia proclaims itself bi-lingual and Multi-Cultural is the day Israel might consider this crazy idea... 2. Maybe these Israeli Arabs would like to move to Canada,a bastion of Bi-lingualism and Multi-Culturalism---except of course in Quebec--where they defy these very same U.N. "human rights" laws to protect the French language and Quebecois culture --I'm sure Quebec would support Israeli Jews' desire to protect Hebrew language and Jewish culture from the threat of Arabization encircling & from within just as they fear the threat from the Anglophone majority in North America ..IF Arabs don't like it--leave Israel...Israel's existence must be culturally and linguistically PREDOMINANTLY JEWISH and HEBREW--minorities should kow-tow to that imperative just as they do in Quebec. Trampling minoity rights in Quebec is accepted as necessary in Canada's "Democracy"--Israel can be "Democratic" and trample Israeli Arab hopes for "equal rights" to language+culture.

This is their plan - tear up from within, while exerting external force. It is also the plan of the Iranian terrorists. The same people were rooting for Hezbollah during the war, and delight when Jews are blown up. They can expect support from Chomskyites in the Diaspora and the usual Jewish knuckleheads in Israel. Maybe, Olmert's wife and daughters can lend them support along with Olmert's yordim sons.

Flaming arabists like you are hard to come by. I am all for a Two state solution: Arabs in Jordan and Israel in the rest of Palestine provided that the League of Nations mandate provisions are put in place . No Arabs in the Jewish State and no Jews in the Arab State(already in place). As I said before the Legue of Nations ruled so there is nothing to understand of the other side. A bunch of murderous clans wanting to kill me and take my inheritance. I understand that very well. There never was an Arab Palestine, there never will be an Arab Palestine and there are No Palestinians. MA CHERIE they are a fignment of your fertile imagination. PS Part of the deal should be you joining your protoges in the Arab State. Ya Habla.

"But dont take it from me, Look at Israel`s Basic Law on Human Dignity and Freedom" The text of that law is right here: http://www.israel-mfa.gov.il/MFA/MFAArchive/1990_1999/1992/3/Basic%20Law-%20Human%20Dignity%20and%20Liberty- There is nothing here that contradicts Israel's declaration of Independence. On the contrary, the declaration is incorporated by reference into this law. What's your next excuse?

Let the Arabs of Gaza & the West Bank set the example in forming a democracy. They need the practice, and can accomplish it if they stop attacking each other & Israel. They might invite the King of Jordan to join in and to consolidate their efforts.

Show me a better democracy anyplace.

That was my sarcastic take on both Bousameer and Jim. Jim is a Jew hater rivalling that of any poster here and Bou sameer is a typicak Homicidal apologist. MY post to Bracha that was "extremely polite"(LOL) has been censored but I will repost.a Bona Fide Arabist that is not even Jewish and lives of Israeli largesse playing that Irish Music and LIES, LIES, and Lies.

Those Mexicans are not denied entry based on their "Religion." They are not based on anything. They just walk across the border, allowed to do so by a comatose US president. Latest figures are 30% of felony prisoners in US jails... you guessed it - ILLEGAL ALIENS. Soon we'll be having the same problems those jews are having with the moslems.

May you have many lucky days! But I wish you would clarify your message(s). What do you mean by PISS (I assume that is an acronism for something). Also "deadly silence", and "drafting the treaty"? If you want to know what is happening on sh-s net you have only to sign up. Then you can ask questions like everybody else and direct them straight to the source. Shalom

He definately reminded of the Garcon du Piss. hmm, no, maybe it was the bucket of...

If you will not live at peace and under Israel's sovereignty in Israel you can always leave for one of 21 Islamic countries in region , where Jews are not allowed to exist . The G-D of the universe and His WORD promises to build strangers up in the land , IF , they will live at peace and under Israel's sovereignty , if not G-D Himself promises to destroy them along with all the evil neighbours who hate the Jewish people . See Jeremiah 12 : 14-17

Here in San Francisco ,I have been at rallies where the Palestinians, carrying Palestinian flags with superimposed images of fists dripping blood,chant in Arabic,"Palestine is our land and the Jews are our dogs." I have seen them steal and burn Isralei flags. The only thing that kept Jews safe from Arab violence was about 50 of the orange shotgun toting San Francisco Police Department riot squad. By the way, it was a "Peace Rally."

When he's in Israel and you're in Canada. Unless you've upped your travel plans again without telling us.

Tzfonit You say ??But I believe that a way can be found for a one or two state solution that will ensure both peoples retain their integrity and their land.?? The problem is how to harness the will and desire of the majority on both sides to achieve their goal Of co existence as two neighbouring nation states in the face of the vociferous zealots minority who believe that. FOR US to maintain our integrity. The OTHER must lose its land.

Maybe the Muslims living in Israel would be happier living in other countries, such as Saudi Arabia, Yemen, Iran, etc.,. where they would live among people with the same character as them.

Muslims in Europe are starting to ask for having their own laws. They want the European countries cease to have their own culture and customs. Muslims should not be permitted in non-Muslim countries. Besides, a short time ago, the outcome of a research work in a European country was published. About 80% Muslims said they felt uncomfortable living in a democracy. I guess what happens in Israel is the same and the Muslims living there want to take advantage of the pressure Israel suffers from the Muslims around it. I enjoy diversity and having different kinds of people around. But when it comes to Muslims, I believe it would be better for everybody (also for them) if they did not live out of Muslim countries.

Those Mexicans are not denied entry based on their "Religion" or anyone else .

Gabe1 You must have missed them,for they are here and I just could not even bring myself to read them! Bad enough to read the article,which is sickening.I shall be off,because I am extremely annoyed....

"Adalah`s proposal is 100% compatible with contemporary Western values of equality and human rights." Except, of course, that it denies the Jewish right to self-determination. "The catch, of course, is that Zinoism is not." Since when is a people's struggle for self-determination not compatible with contemporary Western values of equality and human rights? "Therefore, following Adalah`s proposals through to their logical conclusion will destroy the Zinoist enterprise" So, rather than being progressive, Adalah is actually quite reactionary in its attempt to undermine the Jewish State by denying Jews the right to self-determination. "at best morphing it into something more democratic and at worst - from a Jewish tribalist perspective - destroying the Jews` sense of strength in numbers." If you had started at "at worst" and stopped after "Jews" the statement would have been correct.

If you must pry into someone elses post at least have the common sense if not the good manners to read the complete post before wasting your time answering a statement that was never made.

That is exactly the point. 3 generations later, and it can't be done. The current government can't even deal with the present population without outside help. How in the hell would they deal with 4 or 5 million more? It would cause an economic problem for the current populace, not to mention an economic problem for the aid orgs currently working in the Territories. Just not viable at all. een the UN has stated that the right of return is not ever going to be an option.

Lynn hello All I have to say is this. East is East,and West is West,and never the twain shall meet. With these barbarians the only answer is"get thee behind me satan"You are not going to pull down our Western Society down to your level and change ours to yours. Just go to Ramallah and see to the "Honor killings"of only a day ago. Give them more of our country's fundemental prosperity and the advancement?Like hell Adalah and in your dreams. Lynn I am so angry I could.....you know what I am trying to say...

Neither would I call it success; PA negotiating with PA, I mean. But might it not be called progress? A little today keeps intifada away?.......Ok. So it's corny.

"Unfortunately for Zionism, the Arabs have no strategic imperative to agree to such a move, for demographic reasons." Unfortunately for the Arabs, Israel also has no strategic imperative to agree to such a move, also for demographic reasons. "Adalah`s offer may therefore be the best deal in the long run, from the perspective minimizing human suffering." Adalah's offer is a surefire recipe to create a new Rwanda where there was none before, and to generate human suffering on a scale that would dwarf anything you see today.

A Jewish State was established with the agreement of the UN. It's not going anywhere. It has, is and will always be a Jewish State, run by Jews, for Jews. Why do they have to change their Jewishness to please anyone else on the planet? IT IS A JEWISH STATE!!! You live in Tennessee, how is this affecting you? Answer, it isn't.

I absolutely agree. Very well put.

I believe the word you want is "ghetto".

#388 Racon-tour You are correct when you say that democracy is not based on religion. Religious leaders are more apt to become totalitarian than democratic. It is part of their mindset and training (we are right, the rest of the world is wrong). One of the first things a true democracy must do is deny the powers of the state to any and all religious institutions. This is the greatest difference between East and West. The West learned this a long time ago. The East has yet to learn this lesson. When Israeli citizenship has nothing whatever to do with religious conviction or heritage, then we may see some progress in Israel. But as long as "security" is used as the rationale for religious bias, there will be no move in Israel toward a true democracy. How Israel will deal with this and at the same time guarantee Herzl's dream is a real quandary. I wish I had the answer. The same argument applies to Iran, Iraq, and other eastern powers who mix religion with politics.

So, there are "African/Americans, Arab/Americans, Spanish/Americans", and is more a self description then racist. Why the big deal if there are Arab/Israelis? And I am right about the "back of the bus" issue. There are busses that only the ultra orthodox ride on at certain times also. And you said a lot more then I answered to. There is a huuuge difference between wanting to be integrated into a country then to wanting to take it over. which is exactly what the "Multicultural Constitution" does. It's a Jewish State, time to get over it.

Adalah's constitution undermines the Jewish nature of Israel and thus denies Jews the right to self-determination. Does Adalah support Palestinian self-determination? If so, it should stop being ideologically inconsistent and intellectually dishonest and instead work, within the framework of the Jewish state, together with Jewish groups, for fuller integration into Israeli society and equal allocation of funds for Arab education and community development. Israel's Jewish character does not preclude it from being a true democracy. Religious law in Israel viv-a-vis personal civil matters applies to each denomination separately, and so doesn't constitute religious discrimination.

A bunch of mishigas that would never work. Likewise, they should leave forthwith the Blessed Land of Eretz Yisroel, given by Adoshem to the people of lost neshomohs, lost except for the Medisnat Yisroel. Let them go with their hate, confusion, treachery to their own unfortunate lost sheep, and anyone else who is traitorous should leave! Please go gsinterheit.

Cipora Just even to read the article made me so angry,that I did not want to respond at all. But I did send one to Yonatan Netser and now to you,at least to vent my feelings. I will have to leave off,because every time we come to read articles they prsent us with such outrageous comments proposed by those(I nearly went over the top)and would have resorted to explitives. Thank goodness for your calm response. Regards

ONCE AGAIN YOU FORGET PERFORMANCE AS PART OF ANY DEAL. NO ONE WHO IS PRAGMATIC WOULD THINK FOR ONE SECOND THAT AFTER 60 YEARS ANYONE WOULD WANT TO RETURN ANYWHERE AND START AGAIN!! THE RIGHT OF RETURN IS TODAY PURE HOGWASH AND AN ESSENTIAL ARAB BARGAINING PLOY WHERE YOU ASK THE IMPOSSIBLE PRICE AND SETTLE SOMEWHERE NEAR THE BOTTOM. THE DIFFICULTY THAY ALL FACE FROM ARAFAT ONWARDS IS THAT THEY HAVE PROMISED THE MOON TO THEIR FOLLOWERS AND CANT DELIVER

Racon- tour There is no right of return for Palestians. Some one who is claiming and advocating for the right of return should have to answer these questions. There is a living gap between us. When you compare a Pal with Israeli, a Pal GDP per capita is 600 $ per year, while $20000 per Israeli. The tremondous problems are such us 1) How they are going to feed plus 4 million hungry mouths every day. 2) You must create at least 1 million jobs for these hungry mouths. Which economy in the world can create. 3) How many schools plus must have to be opened in order to educate this Pals. 4) Health system 5) Justice ......... If you had the answers to these questions, if you can solve this problems, we are ready to accept them. Aby

In my opinion, this is consistant with Palestinians generally seeking greater rights than others. Palestinians have their very own UN aid agency, a voice in the UN, more foriegn aid per capita than an other people ever, their very own unique inheritable and eternal refugee status etc. Here in the US, if a pro-Israel speaker is presented, the Palestinians (some second or third generation American) and their leftist,(often Jewish!) appologists demand that an anti-Israel speaker be presented! They feel that if they can't inflict their opinions on every un-willing audience, then their speech is being "muzzzled." When will anyone call this movement the "Muslim Supremacy" movement?

**"...all assets of the Waqf (the Muslim religious trust) that were expropriated after 1948 and all assets seized by the state from ** ** Quote 'Arabs will be returned to their original owners, who will also receive compensation...' These thing shouldn`t even be necessary because they remedy something that never should have been done in the first place.** Not sure what you mean here, Stephen. Are you applying contemporary law retroactively to opine on issues of the past?

where do you think Adalah got the idea?

Adalah's proposal is 100% compatible with contemporary Western values of equality and human rights. The catch, of course, is that Zinoism is not. Therefore, following Adalah's proposals through to their logical conclusion will destroy the Zinoist enterprise, at best morphing it into something more democratic and at worst - from a Jewish tribalist perspective - destroying the Jews' sense of strength in numbers. The alternative - embodied in the two-state solution - is the Greece-Turkey option. Those two ethnic groups' populations were significantly intermixed for centuries, but for the sake of establishing coherent nation-states, their leaderships agreed to import/export their populations accordingly. Essentially, they engaged in consensual ethnic cleansing. Unfortunately for Zionism, the Arabs have no strategic imperative to agree to such a move, for demographic reasons. Adalah's offer may therefore be the best deal in the long run, from the perspective minimizing human suffering.

Like the three murdered women found in Ramallah a couple of days ago. The whole subject stinks to "High heaven" Odd that they never mention the subject you have submitted here Yonatan. They want to "gobble up Israel",if not wholesale,but "piecemeal" And we should never allow this EVER!! p/s Nice to see you here....

In the context of this Talkback its somewhat ironic that the "tired, poor, etc" quote comes from "The New Colosus" a poem by Emma Lazarus - who was of course a Sephardic Jew with Zionist tendencies living in New York. Story goes she was inspired by a trip to the docks where she witnessed the spectacle of the arrival of new immigrants. regards.

"Tolerance for a tiny Jewish State in a region of hundreds of millions of Muslims is the true test for Islam." Oh really, so let's forget about the fact Christians failed the test for 2,000 years and now you expect Muslims to succeed where Christians of all national make up failed? Ok, fine, but let's come down to earth to the reality based world and let me explain it to you in plain simple english. Arabs and Muslims have co-existed for millenia, we don't have to prove anything to European rejects or those from Brooklyn. You say a "jewish state" surrounded by a 100 million muslim, who told you not to pick Uganda and be surrounded by a 100 million Africans or not Brooklyn and be surrounded by 100 million gentiles, the truth is, no matter where "Israel" would have been created, it will be a tiny entity surrounded by a much larger goyem presence. But here is my main point, we "tolerate"(your word) Jews but we won't tolerate Jewish crimes, land thievery, colonization and occupation of our homeland. I know you think your people are special and God's people and all that baloney stuff--which you are entitled to believe-but I'm sorry to disappoint you, we just see people trying to steal our homeland. You already have a Jewish state, it's called New York!!

"there are differences in living conditions between Israeli Jews and Arabs" Dont compare Arabs with us, but just compare the Israeli Arabs with you. If you are honest to yourself, you'll admit Israeli Arabs have much better life then you, in terms of economy in terms of democracy. If you are thinking their lives is passing in misery, there is any easy solution why don't you accept your muslim brothers to your country. When comparing us with Arab minorities, in what terms are you comparing. Arabs and Jews gets what they deserve. Giving without taking is an attribute of God. What are they giving to Israel they ask for equality. First they must learn to give like an Israeli Jew to Israel, then ask for equal rights. What do they produce. Just nothing. Aby

People need to stand back and take a good hard look at what is happening all over the world. Everyday you hear more about the Islamic extremist movement and the "murder" bombers. (Not suicide, but MURDER) Israel isn't the only country in jeopardy of becoming controlled by a Muslim majority. Muslims are demanding that democratic countries change existing laws to accomodate "their" beliefs. Soon anyone not a Muslim will be judged an insult to Islam because one's belief is different. World beware!

Because Jasmine,if I had responded to that person I would not have been as polite as you. You saved me from telling her where to get off!!

About a Bi-National state. After all, you will not be the one faced with living under one roof with those who want to kill you. Let me ask you a question: Say Israel got rid of all "security" and barriers against the Palestinians. What would happen the next day? And you want a Bi-National state! Get your head out of the clouds boy. You are playing games with people's lives here.

AND PRONTO. ISRAEL IS THE LAND OF THE JEWS TOTALLY AND ABSOLUTELY. BUT I AM WASTING MY BREATH--SHOULD SAY "FINGERS" SENDING YOU A RESPONSE. It seems you are refering yet again on demographics,BUT FORGET YOUR WISHFUL THINKING. I KNOW YOU MUST BE ARAB,OTHERWISE YOU WOULD NOT SPEAK FROM THE "SIDE OF YOUR MOUTH" No more giving into your lot.Get it into your head once and for all! We Jews were always in Israel,whereas your lot the others are just agitating SQUATTERS,who have no rights whatever to give orders to our sovereign state........................

Wishful thinkers. Right! But that is where all changes of importance begin. At the grass-roots level with wishful thinkers. In this case disgrundled with things as they are. Hey, Walid! Is it possible that you and I have a mutual aquaintance in Tel Aviv? Salaam, Jim

The above mentined knesset Comm't's arbitrary change in the law, with no discussion or public debate meant that they changed Israel's status from a substantive democracy to an ethnocracy-namely a country that rightfully belongs to only one ethno-religious group:the Jews. As for Ireland, the Protestants of the south were deeply involved in the independence movement, Douglas Hyde, Roger Casement, WB Yeats, Erskin Childers. The Irish Dail (Parliemant also has 3 Jewish members).

The Jews (US)them taking over and throwing the JEWS OUT WITH THE BATH WATER!! WHAAAAAAAAAAAT? Hey Yoav,did you think well about the article you wrote before daring to put it out???

This is all nonsense. Jews are always ready to discuss the most inane issues, just for the sake of discussion. Therefore, the Muslims and the anit-semites are always proposing the preposterous and inconceivable. Jews are too reasonable. What multicultural constitution? Which Muslim nation has one? And all the comments from Australia and Canada about Jews occupying their homeland of Israel. Whose land did the Canadians and Australians steal? And how dare the English even make one peep about occupying someone's land? They were the biggest occupiers in the world, and they still occupy Northern Ireland, Gibraltar, the Falklands, etc. And talk about occupation! Have you ever wondered why a North African country like Morocco speaks Arabic? And where are all the Berbers that lived there before the Arabs occupied North Africa? They're hiding in the mountains! And please, what about Kurdistan? Have you ever heard any of these Palestinians, Syrians, Iranians, Iraquis, Turks asking to disoccupy

Tupac Shakur's name did come from Tupac Amaru's (a Quechua revolutionary) and hence so did yours. Your whole point is based on conspiracy theories, such as Wolfowitz and Co. subverting the US in the name of Judaism. (1) They do not even practice Judaism in their private lives.(2) You know that the vast majority of Jews voted Democrat despite Republican support for Israel, which is a fact. (3) The Iraq war was harmful to Israel by creating more instability in the region. (4) Jews are obligated by their religion to be good citizens of the state in which they live, which already invalidates your argument that the people you mention are acting in the name of Judaism. What you are doing is a very old Stalinist method - accusing people of "secretly" doing things that are totally contrary to logic.

Oh, Danite, it would probably take at least 50 posts to explain you the law in all of our different cantons, because each canton has totally different ones. We are an extremly federalistic state, so most of the power is with the individual canton-governements and not with the state. And that can go quite a bit to the extreme. The children of my brother who lives in the canton Bern have 3 weeks more school-holidays than the children of my sister, who lives in another canton. Crazy, isn't it..?? And with regard to the status of the French language in a German speaking canton: To be honest, I have no idea, whatsoever, we simply never have any problems with that, so it's not even a topic that people are discussing. The only thing that gives us a reason to fight with each other, is the question whether Switzerland should join the EU or not. The French speaking say yes, the German speaking rather no. You see, quite harmless, compared to the ME....

But dont take it from me, Look at Israel's Basic Law on Human Dignity and Freedom that defined Israel as a Jewish, democratic state that included a clause that promised equal rights to all Israeli citizens, in accordance with Israel's definition of democracy: "All are equal before the law, and there shall be no discrimination on the grounds of gender,religion,nationality, race, ethnic group cournty of origin or any other irrelevant factor."However, MKs on the Constitution,Law and Justice Cmm't then headed by Amnon Rubinstein, decided, on their own inititiave,that the proposed act would state that Israel was Jewish and democratic and would exclude the caluse on equality. It was ultimatel passed in that revised format in 1992. A substantive democracy must be a country for all its citizens and must ensure full equality for all of them. However, Israel's definition as a Jewish, democratic state implies that Israeli democracy applies only to Jewish citizens.

Either the solution in your post or transfer. Israelis would rather a two state solution... at the moment. I wouldn't be surprised to see them favor transfer if it fails. And I'm not sure how much the world would really care if they did.

Can I a Canadian become a Swiss citizen? Pleaze don't say yes, as it is simply not true unless they require my expertise. I have been to Switzerland dozens of times, and am aware of the vast differences in attitudes and tolerance in the different regions. Still prefer swiss occupied Italy! LOL Your government has the most restrictive immigration policy in the entire western world. So, you can allow the Germans speak German, the French speak French, and the Italians speak Italian. Your dictatorship have carefully manipulated this balance with their closed door policy. Israel to survive does not have this luxury. I don't know why people simply don't say, "this is a Jewish democratic State." Jewish values must be upheld for it to remain so. As opposed to 22 Islamic dictatorships. Enough is enough!

Must be my lucky day , encountering all the moderates from the SS site. with the deathly silence there am I to assume that PISS has broken out and you are drafting the treaty. Can it be that your "moderation" will now be a fixture on Haaretz.

Harzion, you are right that a one-state solution would screw up Israel but from the way it is conducting itself, you would think that this is what Israel wants. It steals a little bit here and a little bit there until nothing viable is left for the Palestinians so Israel will have to simply absorb those millions of Palestinians and Israel's population will shoot up to 10 million. Crime does not pay.

Give all Israeli-Arabs citizenship in Palestine when a Palestinian state is created and allow a certain number of those with Palestinian citizenship to live in Israel. In the meantime, Israeli Arabs aren't living in refugee camps. Which is better then how Palestinians live in other countries. Admittingly, it's not a valid defense, but let's remember it as a mitigating factor. Or else create a republic and give Jews a majority in the Knesset and other positions.

i think pat buchanan is a catholic....who killed most of the jews during world war II---catholics? arabs?(they controlled the immigrattion in palestine,did they?).......you're right....the world always blames the jewish people.

You are the moderate that has been spawned by that SS site I hear. I understand that you are in the process of drafting a Piss Treaty there so you came om Haaetz in order to do the same. I asked if Haaretz is now full or part time. With the deathly silence on SS does that mean being able to listen to your moderation here?

what a waste of newspaper space.....but if you have to say something then make it to the point; doesnt anyone understand what the endeavour of these idiotic proposals are all about? they're formulated basically to enforce and solidify the axioma that the israeli state is not legal and therefore we, the original habitants of this land, the Palestinians demand from the international community the right to reclaim our land, get it back from the jews. Wether realidstic or not it doesnt matter, the point is to, like i allready said, to enforce bit by bit, whatever time it may take, that Israel is an illegal state and to get the international community one day to turn around and adopt this view to. Israel is a democratic state when it treats all citizens, equal regardless off religion and race. BUT.....Israel is a Jewish State and shall remain a Jewish State. If the arab citizens of Israel dont like that that cross the border into Palestine!!

I enjoy when you and your new found friend Danite pat each other on the back and exchange platitudes. Each of you is prepared to give away the Jewish Homeland of Judea and Samaria as long as you get a promise from a bunch of Liers. You are are prepared to create a democratic state on Israel(read appease the Arabs Shelanu) and in effect gut Israel of its Jewish majority. But now is not the right time to do that.HOOMANISM!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Is that why you are running away from my questions to you?

I found it most intersting. I had a Swedish Jew on my ulpan in 1971. His first name was Tuvia and his last name began with a W, I think. Then I was in school with a young Jewish woman from Oslo. Intersting group.

in sporting events while serving their sentences.

What did you put in your coffee this morning? As for cultural institutions, you try having an all English entity in Quebec recently?

We've seen how well the last intifada did in terms of achieving Palestinian national aspirations. Right now, the latest is that the PA is negotiating...with the PA, for a ceasefire. I'm not sure I would call that success.

been harshly learned. Both in Gaza and Lebanon. Israel no longer enjoys the luxury of walking out, locking up the border, and tossing the key. HAMAS and Hizballah have both shown that they are all to ready, willing, and able, to toss the violence over the wall, while continuing to hide behind the skirts of the UN when Israel decides it has had enough.

An out of control "israeli" "Jewish" Arabist and nothing less.I want a two state solutiion. Arabs (ALL of them) in Jordan and Jews in Judea & Samaria and pre 1967 Israel. It I could have my wish or even three wishes. It would be to have you on the Arab side of the border.MA CHERIE you are a spoke, a fifth whell and an appeaser par excellence.Al Jazeera could use your services

The Stae Controller mentions the disparities every year in the official report, Moshe Arens has written on it numerous times here at Haaretz, and every israeli govt for decades openly admits it, but not enough gets done and that is a fact.I support the full integration of israelis arabs into israel, I support ending the policies of the JNF(it no longer is 1932),I support equality in budgetary allocations etc.This proposal however is as I said a nationalist Arab assault on the Jewish nature of the State whos ultimate goal is a binational state.Sur un autre question walid, viens tsu sa a main avec nous autres pour un steame au Pool Room? A bien tot le grand!!

You seem to get another case of foot in mouth disease every time you try. The issue isn't just some flash in the pan phobia for us. Israel is a state of the Jewish people. This means more than just a safe haven for Jews who face real threats. The issue isn't just not being in the minority, but being able to live as Jews in a state of our own. We're not your lab project. Try realizing that for a moment.

It's another PLO attempt to destroy Israel, plain and simple. The 'Right of Return' clause stated in article 4 is a non-starter. The primacy of the Waqf conflicts with the supposed idealism of a state of equals. The inclusion of the 'Arab Nation' denotes the idea of a nation based on a cultural and religious link, which is what Israel is, but only on a tiny piece of territory. What the document claims is that what is acceptable for the Arabs is not acceptable for the Jews. Likewise, the idea of two seperate school systems and two seperate languages, and the allowances for 'small villages' to use only one language based on local preference. This is cultural cantonization as we have seen in Lebanon. The 'affirmative action' clause again, bespeaks to rights to a group that is unwilling to share equal consequences. In short, it is just another attempt to gut Israel as a Jewish state. If you want to live in the state of Utopia, it's just up the parkway.

And since you have been singing the praises of religious tolerance in Ireland , would you care to tell us why is it that the only part of Ireland with a high concentration of Protestants still belongs to the UK. I think you will find that is the choice of the high number of Protestants in Northern Ireland. Some thing the same as the Jews in Israel. A protestant Country for a prostestant People.Did not work there either and wont work in Israel

"your silly at best" response is condescending and exposes your lack of knowledge and experience with the US civil rights movement. Rosie Parks was a great lady. Martin Luther King followed in the footsteps of Gandhi. Thank god he rejected the violence preached by Malcom X, a Muslim. Your ilk only knows violence. Civil disobedience and Jihadist violence are as different as day and night. What else don't you know?

Dino, I can't believe it, your last two messages were like sweet music to my ears...

Hi there, BouSameer, I hope to God you are right! Salaam, Jim

"(In Ireland) Catholicism does not receive special treatment nor are the national symbols based on relgion." Well then, Ireland must be SO much more enlightened than England, who has not one but TWO crosses on its flag, right? Switzerland, of course, also has a cross on its flags, and so do all those backwards, racist Scandinavian nations. And Turkey's flags bears the star-and-crescent, and Saudi Arabia's flag bears scriptures from the Koran, and so on and so forth. This Sullivan fellow is just a barrel full of fun.

What religions symbols are on the British flag? What religion informs the choice of public holidays? There is no difference in israel being a Jewish state and many other states in the world.Stop your charade.

Though your intentions seem to be good, you must understand what it meant for us to be without a state.You must understand what it was for us to live by the whims of others for millenia, we will never ever give up the Independent State of Israel, the key words here being never ever.

Could you tell me how it works in various cantons designated for one ethnic group or another in terms of language use and culture, and what is the position of a minority within a canton.Ie what is the status of the french language in a german canton.Thanks

Apology accepted. You state in your response that Israel is Recognised by international Law.Accepted but there are a few issues of International Law outstanding which Israel chooses to ignore.It is "Not a Bowl of Cherries". AS to Finkelstein it is clearly you did not get my post re debate between he and schlomo-ben-ami(Google) on Democracy now. host Any Goodman. Early 2006. Full text is available. Scroll down to end of Finkelstein,s first paragraph and you will see that he simply states that the right of return exists by "Internatinal Law" (see res 273 part of which was based on adherence to 181 and 194). He states that he is not calling for all Palestinians to be allowed return but that some accommodation above and beyond what Israel is willng to should be made.He states that it is a huge problem.Go listen to it. You used england as an example of a good democracy. Agreed but it is not based on Religion. People are able to earn citizenship not based on religion.

Tolerance for a tiny Jewish State in a region of hundreds of millions of Muslims is the true test for Islam.

Have you read the Hamas charter? A Islamic republic with the Jews kicked out and any negotiations and the UN specifically excluded. Not to mention its disgusting quotes,yes its worse than "savages". It is effectively being re-iterated by the leaders of Hamas. Not much room for a peaceful solution with that agenda in place. Not to mention the Palestinian covenant which is stilll unrepealed.

I myself am Jewish. I try to answer to your questions: 1) Church-services are very popular: weddings, name-giving baptems of the babies, funerals etc.: maybe you have learned that even the homosexuals in Sweden campaigned to be wed in the Church, which became possible last year to them! 2) Churches are full to the brink on holidays; else the services on Sunday-mornings are broadcasted on telly, which is comfortable to the old, sick and others, who prefer long mornings in pyjamas in a sofa, sipping their morning coffee 3)the Birgitta-nuns are NOT catholic, but a Swedish "invention" and actually Lutheran! How this is, I am not aware of its historic background. 4) Queen Christina was a so called enlightened monarch(and maybe a Lesbian), who invited the famous authors like Voltaire to Stockholm, where he died from winter-cold! She was "drawn" to Europe and LOVED Italy, so in order to follow the call of her heart, she abdicated, moved to Italy and converted; her private matter!

Danite, what these guys are demanding is pure wishful thinking and an attempt to wake up the Jews to the differences in living conditions between the two people. From the way everybody is commenting, you would think that there will be a constitution in Israel by next week that includes all of these demands and it has everybody jumpy. Nevertheless, there are differences in living conditions between Israeli Jews and Arabs and anybody that denies that, is either ignorant of Arab life in Israel or is simply dishonest. If Arabs would have been treated as equitably as Israelis pretend they are being treated, we wouldn't be having this discussion today. I can't get over how Israelis are so generally uninformed about what is going on right under their nose. I know a lady in TA so tellement bornée that she doesn't know what goes on outside her neighborhood. It's too bad.

No one but Israelis can write the constitution of Israel. If you wish to change your government, you must do it yourselves. If you do not wish to change it, then so be it. What has rape in Iraq to do with this question?

while your ancestors ran for their lives to another country. the arabs occupied "PALESTINE".for the generosity of great britain and france---they gave away some of your land to the hashemite family---descendants of prophet muhammad(originally from mecca and medina).now they claimed they've owned the promised land,the everlasting possession given by God to Isaac and his descendants.they make GOD A LIAR.-----saying also that their allah and GOD JEHOVAH ARE THE SAME....that's a big lie.do they have proof to prove it.

**It is not a Muslim state and it will not submit to Ssharia law. If Muslims want to live in Israel they will have to undestand it and accept it otherwise let them go live in an Arab or other of the many Muslim States ** As you seem to know of a poll that found Palestinians to be generally in favor of Sharia law, perhaps you care to share those results with us.

Maybe it is a little too early, but I would say this is undoubtedly a snapshot of Israel's future constitution: less exclusive, more faithful to this land's history and people. There is no reason to expect that a group of citizens would accept any less. If they did, they wouldn't be true citizens.

if they were like palestinias,oh my, war with whites all the time.....besides they're not muslims..........that's the difference between them.indians worship the earth the palestinians worship the moon.

"Pals want to take over a country. It`s in your charters. Big diffeence, don`t insult others intelligence." The issue is with Israeli-Arabs and their civil rights protected under a constitution. It's not with "Pals" or a "charter" but with the designated name Zionists chose for the natives, "Israeli-Arabs". Get a clue and stick to that, Israeli-Arabs are not Hamas and all "Pals" are not terrorists. Can you repeat that a few times to reprogram your brainwashing. Now as for the comparison of black struggle and Arabs, would you say Americans electing a black president is tantamount to a black takeover of the country? NO, of course not, blacks already have taken over in political power in certain parts, so what? When Virginia, a former SLAVE STATE elected it's first black governor, no take over there? Democracy in action. So you are telling me Jews can't be that enlightened?

This is a Jewish State, has been for thousand of years and will always remain so with Jerusalem, the whole of it,the undivided Capital of Eretz Yisrael.If your people are not happy here, then you will always find ample space in Arabia & Iran

Israel will become a true democracy when and only when its constitution absolutely prohibits all differentiation between Jew and non-Jew. For as long as Israel's laws, policies, and practices are biased toward one religion or ethnicity, for as long as Israeli law tolerates policies and practices based on religion or ethnicity, it is not and and never can be a true democracy. If you haen't figured it out yet, this is why Israel has been at war since its inception and why it will always be at war not only with its surrounding nations but even with its own populace. I don't know what you call it in Israel; but in South Africa it was called apartheid. The only remedy is the complete separation of church/mosque/synagogue and state and the denial of civil powers to all religious organizations and institutions. Shalom

The so called 'Israeli' Arabs should know that this is the Land of Israel, the Homeland of the Jewish people and not an Arab land. These people are not in position to dictate to the Jewish State what they want.The so called refugees who left the country did so on the instigation of their Arab leaders who rejected the 1947 UN Partition Plan.If the Israeli Arabs are not confortable to live in a Jewish State, I am sure they will find happiness in Jordan, Syria & especially Iran

reputation---when we hear about hijacking or suicide bombing----are they still living in the first century or something----they need to renounce their religion of peace??????????????or war!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!

Before you send people to look up documents, why don't you take a trip to the bookshelf, open a dictionary and look up "ethnocracy"? Ethnocracy means rule by an ethnic group. How is that different from any other country in the world? There certainly are non-Jews in the military. And as long as security is not compromised, no institution is closed to anyone. Your comparison between Israel's treatment of non-Jews and European treatment of Jews in the 19th century is laughable. Read Amos Elon's "The Pity of it All". For European Jews, exclusion from high offices was the least of their problems. And since you've been singing the praises of religious tolerance in Ireland, would you care to tell us why is it that the only part of Ireland with a high concentration of Protestants still belongs to the UK?

The Dhimmi Still, as "People of the Book," Jews (and Christians) are protected under Islamic law. The traditional concept of the "dhimma" ("writ of protection") was extended by Muslim conquerors to Christians and Jews in exchange for their subordination to the Muslims. Peoples subjected to Muslim rule usually had a choice between death and conversion, but Jews and Christians, who adhered to the Scriptures, were allowed as dhimmis (protected persons) to practice their faith. This "protection" did little, however, to insure that Jews and Christians were treated well by the Muslims. On the contrary, an integral aspect of the dhimma was that, being an infidel, he had to openly acknowledge the superiority of the true believer--the Muslim. In the early years of the Islamic conquest, the "tribute" (or jizya), paid as a yearly poll tax, symbolized the subordination of the dhimmi. Later, the inferior status of Jews and Christians was reinforced through a series of regulations that governed the behavior of the dhimmi. Dhimmis, on pain of death, were forbidden to mock or criticize the Koran, Islam or Muhammad, to proselytize among Muslims or to touch a Muslim woman (though a Muslim man could take a non­Muslim as a wife). Dhimmis were excluded from public office and armed service, and were forbidden to bear arms. They were not allowed to ride horses or camels, to build synagogues or churches taller than mosques, to construct houses higher than those of Muslims or to drink wine in public. They were not allowed to pray or mourn in loud voices-as that might offend the Muslims. The dhimmi had to show public deference toward Muslims-always yielding them the center of the road. The dhimmi was not allowed to give evidence in court against a Muslim, and his oath was unacceptable in an Islamic court. To defend himself, the dhimmi would have to purchase Muslim witnesses at great expense. This left the dhimmi with little legal recourse when harmed by a Muslim.(4) Dhimmis were also forced to wear distinctive clothing. In the ninth century, for example, Baghdad's Caliph al-Mutawakkil designated a yellow badge for Jews, setting a precedent that would be followed centuries later in Nazi Germany.( http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/anti-semitism/Jews_in_Arab_lands_(gen).html

of a one state solution is just a sneaky way to screw israel.

leaves me with nothing but contempt for you. your every word tells us that you have nothing but animosity for the jewish state. i do not believe a word you say.

A two-state solution to the Israeli-Palestinian conflict will only be achieved through an end to violence and terrorism, when the Palestinian people have a leadership acting decisively against terror and willing and able to build a practicing democracy based on tolerance and liberty, and through Israel's readiness to do what is necessary for a democratic Palestinian state to be established, and a clear, unambiguous acceptance by both parties of the goal of a negotiated settlement as described below. The Quartet will assist and facilitate implementation of the plan, starting in Phase I, including direct discussions between the parties as required. The plan establishes a realistic timeline for implementation. However, as a performance-based plan, progress will require and depend upon the good faith efforts of the parties, and their compliance with each of the obligations outlined below. Should the parties perform their obligations rapidly, progress within and through the phases may come sooner than indicated in the plan. Non-compliance with obligations will impede progress. http://www.middleeastnews.com/roadmap.html

Believe me, I feel exactly as Harzion does. I find you to be a person with a huge superiority complex. To get back to buseniss, where on earth does the US Constitution give special protection for minorities?

the denizen of ann arbor says: "your opponents will not treat you well when you are the minority if you do not treat them well." we behave well not because we are afraid of others but because the jews are an ethical people.but you would not understand.

don't compromise your belief, israel.you own that land and not the arabs.the arab world wants to rule the whole world...they will start in england.multicultural constitution---that's non-sense.be not unequally yoke together with the arabs---their god and your God are not the same.

The difference between you and the Freedom Riders is huuuge. They wanted integration into their country, Pals want to take over a country. It's in your charters. Big diffeence, don't insult others intelligence.

http://www.saneworks.us/Does-Pat-Buchanan-Have-a-Flea-Problem-a-Blind-Spot-or-Both-article-169-1.htm We are left with one question. Is Pat Buchanan blind to the evils of Islam simply or is there something about his problems with the Zionists (and possibly the Jews) that pulls him to the side and prevents him from seeing what so many see so clearly? Is this the same problem that entices him to link up with a man like Taki Theodoracopulos? We don?t know the answer to these questions but we refuse to give up on Buchanan for America?s sake. Taki, however, is just the male version of Paris Hilton. He?s a tacky imposter with lots of money.

exactly how do you have the gall to lock two million people behind bars?

deal with an israeli or with your countrymen? let our records speak for themselves.

The governments of Arab states grant basic human rights to their citizens." FACT While much attention has been focused on alleged Israeli human rights violations in the volatile West Bank and Gaza, the popular press has chosen to virtually ignore violations of fundamental human rights that take place daily in almost every Arab country. According to annual reports compiled by the State Department, most of the Arab states are ruled by oppressive, dictatorial regimes, which deny their citizens basic freedoms of political expression, speech, press and due process. The Arab Human Development Report published by a group of Arab researchers from the UN Development Program concluded that out of the seven regions of the world, Arab countries had the lowest freedom score. They also had the lowest ranking for "voice and accountability," a measure of various aspects of the political process, civil liberties, political rights and independence of the media.1 MYTH "Women's rights are now protected in the Arab world." FACT In most Arab countries, the Shari'a, or Islamic law, defines the rules of traditional social behavior. Under the law, women are accorded a role inferior to that of men, and are therefore discriminated against with regard to personal rights and freedoms. As Middle East expert Daniel Pipes explains: "In the Islamic view...female sexuality is thought of as being so powerful that it constitutes a real danger to society." Therefore, unrestrained females constitute "the most dangerous challenge facing males trying to carry out God's commands." In combination, females' "desires and their irresistible attractiveness give women a power over men which rivals God's."2 "Left to themselves," Pipes continues, "men might well fall victim to women and abandon God," resulting in civil disorder among believers. In traditional thought, Pipes notes, women pose an internal threat to Islamic society similar to the external one represented by http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/myths/mf16.html

we in israel do nothave the death penalty while you kill your prisoners with a will.who is the better behaved?

Your attitude of both people occupying the same land simultaneously reminds me of the SciFi classic stories of time travel where someone lands from the future on an occupied space and both explode. That's exactly the scenario that awaits you and your strange attitude

with mexico going after the illegals.we dont do that stuff.no israeli civilian has the right to chase our opponents.that is the job of the police or the idf.one can only imagine what the vigilantes do to the wretches when they catch up with them.

look at your behaviour in iraq and compare that woth ours in the west bank.there have been no cases of rape.and the mistreatment in israel cannot compare to your savagery in ramadi and other iraqi towns.so my question: is it more likely that we mistreat the palestinians or that you mistreat the mexicans.let our records speak for themselves.

I undersatand from your writing that you are an evangelical and personally very religious. How many of your Swedish countrymen are church goers? How many use the church for baptism, marriage and funerals, if that? How many Swedes would define themselves as religiously observant Lutherans? Is being Lutheran necessary to being Swedish? Was your queen Christina who converted back to Catholicism looked upon as being less Swedish because she became a Catholic. Are the Bridgettine nuns in Stockholm looked upon as being foreign because they are nuns?

To be very Democratic, should not all of Europe pay for the stolen art which finds its way into European museums and European private collectors vaults? Should the insurance that Jews purchased for their families finally be given to them by the Italian companies that sold it to them? should not the Swiss release all monies that belong to Jews in their banks? should not Poland return monies to Jewish families? Should have been done a long time ago!!!

a somali village in an effort to kill a terrorist.over one hundred somali civilians were killed.did you protest to the new york times?

Harzion, It is worth remembering that any population could become a minority (see growth of hispanic population in US). How you treat the minorities in your society will likely be a model for how they treat you when you are a minority. How is that "ill wishing" and "hypocrasy?" Even the staunch Zionist, Ms. Kohn responds civilly. You, on the other hand, seem to have nothing but bile and vitriol. I can see how minorities might fear their treatment at your hands. Peace. Steve

I failed to mention Israel DOESN'T have a constitution and so here we have a "Jewish state" without borders and a democracy without a constitution? It's just all lovely and the entire world is their oyster. They push multi-culturialism like a RELIGION in all corners of the world in goyem countries but yet can defend denying it in their so called "Jewish state"? Gotta luv the chutzpah but this shtick is not playing anywhere but in the bubbly world of Zion. No one is buying this crap anymore. A Jewish state they can have but a racist Jewish state or a warmongering, land theiving, military occupying Jewish state without a border is not something any people or region can allow to take place. It's simple common sense, they will resist. The question is, if Jewish population in Israel was 100% Jewish, after 60 years, the "only democracy" would have a constitution? Who doubts that? The Arabs in Israel now demand CONSTITUTATIONAL PROTECTION against RACIST laws, lawmakers and state, period!

of judea and samaria?" take a running jump.

When are they going to understand that Israel is a Jewish State--the Jewish State. It has different cultures and peoples living there much as the USA does. It is not a Muslim state and it will not submit to Ssharia law. If Muslims want to live in Israel they will have to undestand it and accept it otherwise let them go live in an Arab or other of the many Muslim States There is only one Jewish State and it should not have to change that to exist.

Harzion, Ill Wisher? Is it hypocrasy to try to examine a situation impartially? I am completely supportive of Israel's right to exist (although the US is a better nation for Jews). I believe that the existence of Israel is the primary thing that has forced a reexamination of Islam by Muslims; the ramifications of which have been felt all over the Muslim world (Nobel prize for female author in Iran). It is lovely for us acros the ocean that Israel is on the beach head rather than ourselves. That doesn't mean that I must necessarily agree with the actions and tactics employed. I believe that, eventually, a one state solution will be better for everbody INCLUDING ISRAEL. ... And what does the prison population in the US have to do with that. As for veto power for minorities, it is in our constitution in the form of "constitutionally protected classes." Besides, I only suggested that to protect Jews in case they should in the future become a minority.

Cipora, Remember the Greek runner Pheidippides who brought the note from Marathon to Athens with the contents that the Athens had won the war over the Persians...?? Now the only problem would be, to find a volunteer who would bring Olmerts note from Jerusalem to Ramallah. Probably not the very best mission for an Israeli citizen.... What about a Palestinian prisoner...?? Maybe Marwan Barghouti..??

Stephen, no one, but no one expects the Arabs in the West Bank to feel Israeli. I wonder where you got that silly idea from. Have you read the Hamas charter, Stephen?

not doing too badly now either.you guys in iraq.the french in algeria.the killings of the moslems in sebrenicia. brutality is pretty much the same as it used to be.did i mention the bombing of the serbs by the usa and nato?.civilians were killed by the hundreds.

If you were to ask most israelis I thinkthis is what they would say, how they would describe Israel.Israel is a Jewish state for the Jewish people in a way that it is not for non-Jewish People.In Israel religion and ethnicity are inseperable and there is no use denying it. This is the only state in the world with a Jewish majority where the calendar is based on the Jewish liturgical yr, where the stte symbols are jewsih and where and natinal history is intimatley bound up with Jewish history as with no other history. Non-Jews can live here, study, vote and earn a living, but like Jews, as non-Christians,in the middle of Europe in the middle of the 19th cent. cannot join the army and will have certain offices closed off to them since they live in a Christian country where they will have freedom of worship.Non-Jews in Israel must understand this and be willing to live with it because we Jews choose to have it this way in order to preserve our own identity which takes precedence over all.

just as soon as you make one state with mexico. first you have to tear down the apartheid wall and then stop persecuting hispanics.

AS a Scandinavian I assure you that no matter how multicultural and tolerant countries we are yet there are three "holies" in the heart of every NATIVE Scandinavian: "Home, Church and the Fatherland"(in this order too!)! Scandinavians are ETHNIC people and Christianity is "etched" in their hearts. Religion in Scandinavia is very much a "private matter"; that the Scandis do not loudly "drum" their religion at all times in every turn does NOT mean they are atheists or modern. "Modesty" is a central part of Lutheranism! Christianity is very much alive here and appreciated framing the Scandinavian tolerance and humanitarian politics the immigrants to Scandinavia enjoy. It is in perfect harmony with the social politics, inspired by the NT-message, which actually are one and the same. Also; all the five countries have a Cross on their flags! Scandinavia has Christianity to thank for what it has become!

some of them terrorise doctors performing abortions.quite a few doctors were killed.

as the jews." this pretence of yours is sickening.you have made our blessed lives your business and pretend not to know that the palestinians are kept to different roads becasue they want to kill us? have you written to the editor of the baghdad times recently with similar protests?

Of course the Arabs want a one state solution: they want all of Israel, as they have stated on countless occasions, and as it is written in the Hamas charter. Please excuse Israel for refusing to commit national suicide.

Cipora, Don't worry, I would never have expected from you to publicly admit my influence on your position, how could I...? :) But seriously, if convergence plan is more or less another word for Geneva initiative or at least the Taba accords for you, then fine, you will have me on board. But I'm afraid, everything less is a recipe for the next disaster and a guarantee that you will have me "on your throat" here on Haaretz for a very long time.... Then rather the Geneva plan, right...?? ._.

in your devilish prison system.how many prisons do you have?two million is pretty near three quarters the population of singapore. most of the prisoners are black and hispanics.now talk to me about the problems of ethnic groups.