Israel: Won't accept 'complete freeze' on settlement building

So glad to see BB stand strong,it's about time I am hoping Iran is listening and pull back with the threats or they can flame and blaze. I support Israel and a tough approach to the illegal Palistinians in Israel, they come from all over the middle east not from Israel. Israel was desolate 60 years ago before the Jews began to return and made it bloom again just as "the dry bones began to live again" in Ezekiel 37. BB STAY strong and tough with Obama and the whole world. The land belongs to the Jews, forever!! Jeshua is alive and well.

Daniel Webster was NEVER a 'Republican', either of the democrat-republicans of Jeffersonian derivation, or of the beginings of the current republican party which did not exist until after his death. He was a Federalist, and later a Whig. He was also notable for his eloquence and his corruption. As for the current republicans, which I was once a life-long adherent (RNC # 137075992-K227, ROT # 338522), they have succeeded, with the indispensable help of Fox news, in destroying Obama and the democrats. It is too bad Obama was so moderate a man that he did not understand he was up against lying, murdering vermin. The democrats have been for almost 50 years too cowardly to fight for what they believed in. And because republicans were void of the slightest moderation, decency, honesty or concern for the future, they have found it easy to destroy not only Obama, but the brief democrat revival of late 2008.

"Even if the GOP won back majorities in Congress, Obama would still be President." - Mark of Lewiston And what signal are republicans giving when they show up at Obama events with loaded automatic rifles? You don't really think the GOP is going to let Obama stand for election a second time do you? "Not even Bush favored another US war in the Middle East." - Mark of Lewiston Israel does, and it can start it no matter what ANYONE wants. I can start the war as long as it is willing to write off the men and machines sent to start it as lost. And it can count on the American right to make it impossible for America to not join in - or at least the Israeli and American right are convinced of this. The right-wing lunatics of Nazi Germany and Tojo's Japan had little chance of winning the wars they started. This did not matter, or even figure into their calculations which had them making an attack, victory happening, and cheering crowds as they announce 'mission accomplished!"

The PLO accepted the State of Israel in 1993. The UN accepted Israel as the State of Israel. Every country in the world recognizes Israel as The State of Israel. The Arab league in its peace offer in 2000 called Israel the State of Israel. Now, Israel has thought of a new name for itself which the Palestinians must use if they want peace. It?s a phony issue and one to be used by Israel to continue its illegal occupation of Palestinian land. If the Palestinians recognize the state of Israel, it is nonsensical Zionist delusion that in doing so Palestinians must also recognize Jewish history. Countries of the international community recognize each other with no thought of each countries history. It is irrelevant. Palestinians don?t have rights to Jerusalem any more than Israelis do. Israeli annexation of Jerusalem is illegal, a violation of the Geneva Convention and thus a was crime.

Clinton lost Hillary-care in '93. And the Republicans got control of Congress in 94. But Clinton got another 4 years in 96. The current Republicans offer nothing except pain and corruption to the US, except for the ultra-rich who are the beneficiaries of and buy the corruption. Even the Club-for-Growth poster child from Idaho got beat in the last election because his platform was certifiable and it became obvious even to his constituents. The Republicans had disavowed him. Obama will have all the same power that Bush had, a fact that scares hell out of Republicans. They think he might use it like Bush or Cheney did.

That's the one where Israel freezes everything including Jerusalem for a year and then hands the option of renewing the freeze (indefinitely)over to Obama. Yes we're certainly a long way away from that. But keep hoping Johnboy.

actually, the west bank is Israel. Did you not hear of Israeli victory in the 1967 war ?

"... settlements are not the big problem. The bigger problem is the demand being placed on the Palestinians to recognize Israel as a Jewish state...." Well, this diversionary tactic could not say it any clearer to the US : Forget about any so-called "peace-talks" - we are not interested. David

Get real, the Israelis know they're on to a good thing and not about to give it up. Where else in the world are they gonna get farmland and ancient olive groves for free??? so much easier to methodically appropriate oppressed peoples' property than pay for it like normal folks. Truly a bargain hunters' paradise.

... and aspire to see it flooded with water... (apparently you had the melting Golan snow in mind) ... that's hardly what Ben Gurion had in mind when he chose to move to Sde Boker...

Yes Obama will be in power till 2012, only impeachment can stop this... look at Clinton and his suport of Oslo before and after the health care debarcle. Before health care reform in 1994 Washington had lots of support for Oslo. But after 1994 when health care did not pass look at what happened... Nothing... So its true that Obama will remain in power... Its just what type of power will he hold? Real power or just symbolic power?

... while the Negev and the Galilee are indisputably ours... ... moreover, if settler youth will indeed settle the Negev and the Galilee, what is this "natural growth" for which you are demanding more and more Pal land and resources...?

believe me

Violation of religious rights Numbers 33-53"Occupy and settle"

First, remember the US doesn't have a Parliamentary system. Even if the GOP won back majorities in Congress, Obama would still be President. And what is the GOP going to run on, the current platform seems to be torture, ending the economic recovery and stopping any hope of health care reform and repeal of what little health care we have that is not purely private, like Medicare and Medicaid. And right now, the GOP foreign policy appears to be cut and run from Afghanistan, after finishing the withdrawal from Iraq. Don't be misled by the million moron march this past weekend. It was funded largely by corporations and secessionists. Not even Bush favored another US war in the Middle East. So Obama will still be President and the GOP, even if it took over Congress, could at best bring the US government to a complete standstill. They would be unable to affect policy. And their impotence would be seen.

that if the GOP is able to win in 2010 then the pressure will be off... You are correct in saying that the world as you claim it (Europe) is pressuring Israel, but what you fail to understand is the Obama is thier leader. It did not matter how anti-Irael Europe was during the Bush era becuase Bush was not anti-Israel... America might not be the world but they are its locomotive. Look at your last paragraph with Israel changed to Jewish: "Even if Obama loses some power, I wouldn`t bet on him or the rest of the world losing their determination to put an end to this JEWISH charade once and for all." Israel is here were not going anywhere... so get used to this "charade" once and for all!

The borders 1967 that are actually cease fire lines 1949 cannot be an international border. The Arabs insisted on that.... Excepting the agreement with Lebanon, the armistice agreements were clear (at Arab insistence) that they were not creating permanent or de jure borders. The Jordanian-Israeli agreement stated: ".."The Armistice Demarcation Lines defined in articles V and VI of this Agreement are agreed upon by the Parties without prejudice to future territorial settlements or boundary lines or to claims of either Party relating thereto." (Art. VI.9) [2] Why didn't we have peace before 1967 when there was no settlements ? Why there is no peace in gaza after removing all settlements ?

On September 9th, Silvan Shalom said: ?It is our right and obligation to settle the land and enable natural growth in Judea and Samaria.? ?The town of Eli symbolizes the links between religious-Zionism and the nation and State of Israel. The people you are raising and educating are those who will pave the way that will lead us to new horizons, and they are those who will build, preserve and develop this Land.? As it happens though, religious Zionists are also settling the Galilee and the Negev, while you are sitting in Tel Aviv with your latte and complaining. We are the future everywhere in OUR land; from the north to the south and everywhere in between- including Judea and Samaria.

i Agree with you 100%... We should pull back all expansion in the west bank back to our 2% that we are keeping and invest in the desert... All we need to do this is get peace with Syria so we can build the water pipeline to the main gorge in the Negev so it can be turned into a fresh water lake. Without this, the development of the Desert which was ben gurion's dream cant come true.

"The west Bank Jerusalem is Jewish Land and Bibi should muster the strength and tell the world to stop meddling in Israels affair and start building immediately. Can we tell washington to stop building in Idaho"NORMAN Sadly for you Norman, the West bank is occuppied territory and as the Occupier Israel cannot have soverneignty over it. Now if you are not aware of this, then google case#2056/04 Beit Zourik V Israel, you will note that the Highest court in Israel---IHCJ--Ruled the west bank to be held "Under Belligerent Occupation" by Israel. So there you have it Norman.All neatly wrapped up in a 3 letter sentence. No sir, Bibi will have to stop builnding illegal squats and return to Israel peoper and see to it that Israeli,s behave themselves, or suffer international isolation and sacntions. Remember the "Afrikaaners" . You remind me of them. By the way---Idaho is not occupied territory.The USA can build as it pleases. Same in NOO Yoirk aint it Norman???.

"Minister Shalom: Religious, Zionist leaders must settle Negev and Galilee (Haaretz)"

... in relocating in the best possible way... not on this ridiculous freezing more or little... ... Minister Shalom is calling for settlement in the Galilee and the Negev... that's precisely where settler energy and innovation are most called for...

A complete freeze is compelling if it is a substantial step in implementing a two state solution. But is it? The writers and artists who protested the Toronto film festival and their American supporters were protesting the founding of Tel Aviv and the Jewish State. If that is mainstream opinion on the West Bank, then do a few thousand housing units more or less on the West Bank make a difference? If mainstream West Bank Palastinian opinion dictates: (1) no recognition of Israel as a Jewish State (2) right of return to pre-'67 Israel is nonnegotiable until Israel's demographic balance is upset, then all Palastinains have to offer is an unstable truce, not a real two state solution. It would be nice to have some real data as to whether Palastinains want a real peace or a temporary truce because the viability of a true two state solution is really in their hands.

but you have to Understand that Jerusalem is the Jewish Nations (diaspora included)eart/soul... Removing the road blocks is a good enough gesture....

hoping that the GOP manages to defeat the health reforms and somehow prevent the 'Democrats winning the mid-terms, thereby letting the Israelii Jihadis off the hook. The problem is that Israel is not just up against Obama, it is facing a hostile Quartet and the EU. Israel's actions have managed to unite the rest of the world to condemn it and demand that the Israeli game now comes to an end. As the rest of the world sees it, Israel has lied, not kept to its agreements, spat in the UN's face and caused all sorts of problems with its actions on the West Bank. It has become the world's only rogue democracy. What is clear to all is that Israel's agenda is never to conclude a peace agreement. because the Zionist master plan is to settle all of the West Bank, leaving a patchwork quilt, self-governing colony called Palestine. Even if Obama loses some power, I wouldn't bet on him or the rest of the world losing their determination to put an end to this Israeli charade once and for all.

The picture becomes clearer by the day. The world can now see what is obstructing peace. Time for the world to say, enough is enough. Sanctions need to be imposed on Israel. Divestment is already happening slowly. The UN needs to hold Israel accountable and that means the US taking the lead. Israels leaders are taking their country down the path of destruction.

You make a good point. Neither side will accept concessions when it comes to Jerusalem. Personally i think to be fair the only solution to Jerusalem was the 1948 solution where "ALL" (east and west) Jerusalem would be made into an international citystate (much like the Vatican but with a twist) both Israel and Palestien would beable to call United Jerusalem thier capital, but would only beable to hold thier governments there. The municiple government that would preside over Jerusalem would have delgents from both sides of the Table. If this could be agreed on by both sides then there would be one less obsticle in the way of peace.

If I were a jew, I would give East jeruselam as a goodwill gestures to end this 5-0 years conflict! Would you Ben! Treat others the way you want them to treat you!! Anything else is hYpocricy!

It used to be that Israel, at least in hasbara, maintained the moral high ground by noting that settlements would be ceded for peace. Well, that high ground, if indeed it ever existed, has been abandoned. The continued building in occupied territories is a classic implementation of colonialist policies, and as history has revealed, the history of colonialism and imperial ambition is gone, The occupation is also clearly an impediment to peace. As an American Jew I hope that President Obama reacts to this announcement by Netanyahu by calling for sanctions. Enough with the occupation.

If it is in the right direction. Bibi 's happens to be flip flopping in the wrong direction. The right direction as Martin Luther King , jr point- ed pointed out about a just law (in his letter From the Birmingham Jail) should have a common purpose about it and it should serve the com-mon good. Let's face it- the settler population does not have a common purpose about it nor is it serving the common good. Indeed, it places all Israelis and their complicit American officials on the wrong side of the law and this simply cannot go on. Thus the lines in the sand are clear.... No need or room for flip flopping there.....Dutch

Guess what no one wants them even their arab brothers and for good reason. Kuwait Jordon Egypt Saudi Arabia etc.... The west Bank Jerusalem is Jewish Land and Bibi should muster the strength and tell the world to stop meddling in Israels affair and start building immediately. Can we tell washington to stop building in Idaho ???

That Obama is in the Drivers seat... One of the interesting points about American Democracy is that every two years there are elections... If in 2010 The Democrats are still able to hold onto the majority of the house and senete, then Obama will ba able to continue his pressure on Israel. Also we have to keep in mind that if his medical plan fails to be passed, he will loose alot of power. Now in the scenario where Obama Looses his health plan and the Democrates loose in 2010, then Obama will become a defunct lame duck. (which will mean that he will no longer pressure Israel due to the possiblilty of him loosing Jewish support in America) So Obama will only beable to push Israel around if the Medical bill passes (with the public option) and a successful mid term election. Without that Israel and the Palestinians are in controll.

Ring a bell? It was a little island, inhabited by the Lenope Indian tribe, conquered 400 years ago by Henry Hudson who build the settlement of New Amsterdam, later becoming the wonderfull BIG APPLE or New York. Nobody has a problem with THAT settlement; it was celebrated last week in attendance of the Dutch Roal Couple.

I know the Jews didnt have a choice but thats not what I was saying it was just an example. But again you still prove my point: you say "simple concessions". I can say well why doesn't Israel give up this and that since they are simple concessions but I doubt that will see it that way, neither will the Palestinians. It's easy for you to say. a JUST peace or no peace. Giving up all you're asking for is not fair under any dictionary.

I can't believe all the hate and nonsense I am reading here. In 1948, the Arabs turned down partition which was much better than anything they can get now. They did this because they thought they could destroy Israel and get everything. They failed. In 1967, Jordan attacked Israel because they believed Nasser's boasting that Israel was about to fall. This failed also. There were no settlements before 1967 and the Arabs would not accept Israel. Why didn't they set up a Palestinian State when Jordan had the West Bank and Egypt has Gaza? As Abba Eban said, the Arabs will never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity.

the Nazi's did not give the jews an option. If i was a palestian and was told i could have a country tommorow if all i had to give up was Jerusalem... i would do it in a heart beat... why would i want to prolong an occupation if it can be ended, by such simple concessions?

If you think there is some Republican able in 2012, look harder. Those currently in office have their 'national' prospects shot. They've been exposed for what they are. You'd have to find one not already bought. Good Luck.

... coming to a head. And this is what is has always been about: the Jew telling the non-Jew to shove off, that the opinion of the non-Jew doesn't matter. That non-Jews don't matter. That there are only Jews. End of story, thank you Bibi.

Bibi was insistent BEFORE his little chat with Mitchell that this was all A Done Deal. The Americans had accepted his positions, and it was just a matter of finessing the fine print before Obama grabbed Abbas by the ear and dragged him to sit down with a smirking Bibi. "Netanyahu told the committee that George Mitchell, U.S. special envoy to the Middle East, had requested a complete halt to settlement building." Read that again, and compare it with what Bibi has been telling you for the last few months. THE AMERICANS HAVE NOT SHIFTED AN INCH IN ALL THOSE MONTHS. All those months when Bibi has been telling you that the Americans are coming around to his point of view. Anyone want to consider that there WILL be a meeting on the sidelines of the UNGA in two weeks, only it'll be between Obama and Abbas. The little smirking prick won't be invited. There'll be no point, because he ain't listening to anyone but himself.....

How amusing that Netanyahu calls the Palestinian demand for a complete freeze an "Extreme Position". Israel is in violation of the so called road map which requires them to freeze construction of the settlements. They are also in violation of binding UNSC resolutions (UNSC 465), International law and ICJ rulings at the Hague. How amusing that Netanyahu considers complying with all these an extreme position. What a farce!!

For Israel not to implement a 'complete freeze' on all the illegal settlements is like a burglar refusing to stop robbing houses. It would seem that Israel is more interest in stealing as much Palestinian land and resources as possible before it is final forced to sit down and agree a peace deal. This refusal to stop thieving and the continued inhumane treatment of the Palestinian people will only lead to more resistance by the Palestinians. Going forward Israel will have no one to blame other than itself for any violent resistance by the beleaguered and brutally oppressed Palestinian people.

by Zionist obfuscation and greed for land. Do these people really believe they can keep running an Apartheid under our noses and get away with it. Dream on modern day Afrikaaners. You will end up with a Bi National state no longer referred to as Israel. All your own work. Enjoy---I will. You could always make peace.

Enough already...Settlements are illegal and Israel agreed not to building any more back at the time of the "roadmap." The world sees not stopping the settlements is a message of not wanting peace. America wants to be a honest broker. Peace Broker

that Israel meditates and muses on all the preconditions the Palestinians must accept if they want a state? There's one TB elsewhere who lists 8 such! You at least only stipulate that they must 'give up right of Return and (ipso) facto rights to Jerusalem.' Why should they do so exactly? What exactly is Israel offering in return? The Pals already HAVE a state in the world's eyes. It is under Israeli belligerent occupation and Israel has been told to withdraw repeatedly. Why should the PA agree to a whole heap of conditions to get Israel to conform to international law? Israelis seem to think it's the Eretz Israel quiz show, where they pen all the questions and judge the answers. News for you: it ain't. Israel is not in the driving seat. It sounds like the US and EU are going to make that clear by saying the Green Line is the new de facto border, negotiate what you can but that's where Israel is ending up in 24 months' time. If that happens, all Israel's preconditions are as dust.

If the Nazis had layed out the options to the Jews 1. you either submit yourself to being our slaves and we will provide you with just just enough food to survive 2. Throw yourselves into the gas chamber How humiliated and degraded would that human being feel? Shame on you Ben

First of you are making a grossly generalized statement. I dont know where you get your information from but it's not that the Arabs think that the creation of Israel is a consequence of the Holocaust. You have been misinformed. I'm not saying that no one says that but that only a few uneducated people might say that. The fact of the matter is, the Arabs know of the history of the Jews wanting to create a homeland in Palestine since the days of the Balfour declaration...etc. Secondly, it's not that they dont accept the history but that the creation of Israel came at the expense of the inhabitants who lived there for generations, that is a fact and not an opinion or perception. What you're basically laying out to the Palestinians is: Accept the reality of Israel and whatever it wants because they have the power and you dont. When you say "a never ending occupation" as an option you're not really considering any value to those human beings who live under that military rule...continued

well, nothing can stop the Israeli expansionism at the expense of the Palestinians. So, if politics are failing once more an international boycott, sanction and divestment movement will change that. Norway will not be alone with action against Israeli companies. Cultural boycott is gaining ground and maybe we will see even in sport a change of mind soon.

The settlements are a thorn that has threatened peace since 1968. The original founders of Israel recognized that. Todays leaders are too dependent on settler support to be able to consider what is good for greater Israel.

No more of this disregard for international law and the make belief Jewish homeland in the Middle East and in the Palestinian territories. The fourteen judge panel at the ICJ in 2004 voted unanimously - the settlements and wall were to be dismantled and removed. Actually, the justices used the term "void" and isn't it ironic the vandals and murderers in the IAF and IDF demolished many civil structures in Gaza and left many people homeless when they ought to have been demolishing civil structures and made settlers homeless in the West Bank and E. Jerusalem? Their denial is terrible! In addition, delaying the inevitable isn't going to work anymore as people like myself are many others in the US and around the world are out of patience with Israel. We will picket Israeli embassies and call for boycotts & reduced aid to Israel. Now, Is that what you want? Dutch

How can palestinians make peace with such people ? Palestinians demands are simple. The compromise they made is alos simple. They lost 78% of their territories. There are thousands of palestinian refugees waiting for a palestinian State to raise. Out of the 22% of land remaining Israel keeps stealing shamefully what's left of the West Bank. Israel sets shamefull and impossible conditions for peace on and on. Israel kills palestinians and claims they are the ones in danger. Lies, manipulation and military power are the core of Israel's policy. And one expects palestinians to make peace with this country ? Israel treats the palestinians like animals. One day Israel will have to apologize and pay.

Bibi says that there will be no settlement freeze..... Yeah, but note that Mitchell HASN'T agreed to that. Bibi said that Israeli "gestures" are enough to restart the peace process. Yeah, but note that Mitchell HASN'T agreed to that. Don't you guys get it yet? Bibi has been telling you for months that the Americans have been slowing giving ground in the face of his brave, brave stand. "Netanyahu told the committee that George Mitchell, U.S. special envoy to the Middle East, had requested a complete halt to settlement building." GOT THAT? Mitchell is STILL insisting on a complete freeze even **now**. BIBI HAS BEEN LYING TO YOU. THE AMERICANS ARE NOT GOING TO GIVE UP ON THIS. HE IS DIGGING YOU ALL INTO A HOLE YOU WON'T BE ABLE TO GET OUT OF.

So Israel does not want peace. That is the true. It is not very conforting, but this is it. Israel admires heroes of wars, victories, weapons, and captains. They do not admire rutinary people that just live and let them live too. In any case, why Natanyahu is all the time letting U.S administration that everything will be the same like in the Bush Administration? From where Israel is having so much power to stand in from Us, telling them what to do... Israel does not want peace. The life of people is not getting better because of peace. Here a lot of people got rich because of war. And the other, the majority, are with not personal and free opinion about their future.

Allow everyone to vote--Israelis and Palestineans--see what happens. Why do Israeli's think that it is ok to poll only Israeli citizens as to what happens in the West Bank as if the 2.5 million Arab residents dont count. It is either one big land of Israel or its not--but everyone should get to vote.

If the pals accept Israel as the Jewish state. Then they also accept the historical aspect of why they Jewish People live in Israel. As it stands the Arab point of view of Why there is Israel, is that the Holocaust happened and this lead the Europeans to say: "hey we need a place to put all these jews, why not in the Mid East?" Which is the main argument that the Arabs have against Israel and Irael having Jerusalem is due to the fact they dont accept Jewish history. But if the Palestians accept Israel as the tradional home of the Jewish people then they also have to accept thier history: which includes Jerusalem. But this means they give up right of Return and insofacto give up rights to Jerusalem. But the crux of it is, they gain for the first time in history an independent Palestien. So Palestien must choose: Either their own country with Ramallah as thier capital. Or, A never Ending Occupation.

That's the only way Israel can be brought into the civilized world--kicking and screaming. But the formula for peace is very clear: abandonment of the West Bank by Israel; ceding East Jerusalem to the new Palestinian state; negotiating a fair settlement of the right of return.

Without complete freeze there will be no peace and that is against Obama's theory. Why Netanyahu wants to negotiate when he is against peace?

I agree! No freeze! The palestinians need good housing in East Jerusalem and the West bank! Good job bibi

So good to hear that Bibi is standing strong. Let the Palestinians earn their land and first bring back Gilad Shalit.

Bibi was not made for great things. Same old, same old. Clearly the Israeli plan is for a greater Israel dotted with open air prisons for Palestinians. How low will the Jewish 'democracy' descend morally? Sad, but interesting to watch.

As Obama is losing his magic and going down in the US pols, it is expected that the Israeli government would not care much about his reaction regarding the continuation of settlements constructtion. Expecting any serious changes regarding the Israeli policy on settlements would be naive at this stage.

I always find myself stunned by the level of "double-speak" when it comes to Israeli (and even US) PR. They say the bigger issue is recognizing Israel as a Jewish nation....etc, yet everything Israel has done with their occupation for all these decades is very much NOT recognizing the Palestinians as a people. In fact, the reality on the ground (everything of which is illegal under international law) basically treats Palestinians as lesser human beings with no human rights. THAT is a basic condition without which it's impossible to solve this conflict. The Israelis always appraoch it with the attitude that they are making generous offers while the other side is becoming more extreme. What utter hypocracy. The PLO recognized Israel as a state before and all it brought after the OSLO accords is more settlements. How can that not be seen as a deliberate way to provoke more anger and hatred and reaction which would be refered to by the Israelis as 'Palestinians dont want peace'?

Balance is good for the media but a Prime Minister needs to focus on doing his job. The first priority is to provide enough jobs and homes for his people, whether Jewish or Arabic-speaking Israeli. It may also be necessary to bring the terrorist murderers to justice and tell the arrogant foreigners imperialists to mind their own health services.

The end is near.

Can we all see how outrageous this is. Please, please Obama, call Bibi's bluff. Start "reducing" aid, start "reducing" vetoing UN resolutions against Israel. Let's see how Bibi likes "reduction" on the other side. And for "Benedict" Morris to say "settlements aren't the problem, only the Pals recognizing Israel as a Jewish State is the problem (a state that is now 20% not Jewish)" would be a joke if it wasn't so sad.

Would you want Israel to accept an Abbas posi- tion of "No complete freeze on terrorism" ahead of negotiations...??? Of course you wouldn't, and rightly so.....