Israel seeks fresh Holocaust reparations deal with Germany

#22 is right - Sabra should start reading some new books and get away from the mythology that the world is getting wise to. The Mapai KNEW that ethnic cleansing was the only alternative if Israel was to survive as a Jewish state. David Green -- I'm sorry, David Ben-Gurion, was the primary henchman behind these atrocities. Some national hero! Like Heydrich!!! Thus the forced expulsion of 750,000. We know this is true because we have verified historical evidence -- even Israel's best historians (e.g., not religious fanatics equal to the Taliban) agree. So wise up Sabra and learn what global citizens that can type amazon.com already know. Read Ilan Pappe and Norman Finklestein for the truth.

where is the end??????

Sins of the fathers... How long back ??? That will not only apply to the Germans... or better to say to the Nazis.. not all the Germans of course.. but remember..that what we call the Americas today was once rampage by the europeans english, spanish, portuguese and french... Africans were used as slaves...and colonized and exploited so was most of the world... so How long back should we go to apply the rule of the sins of the fathers ???? Are we all free of sin ???? Is Israel totally fee of any sins ???? Or ???? Well lets not forget we are all human...and nobody is sin free.... as much as I know.. one guy you point one finger to me but there are 4 fingers pointing at you... Try and see what happens when you point an accusatory finger at someone else ???

Money and power... the power of making feel others guilty again and again and again and getting something out of it .... and well if one can get some money after all.. Why not ??? See how much of it the Holocaust survivors will ever seen ???? Still they didn't get the little money it was promised to them.. they are delaying making a comission after another commission... and finally the poor people will be too old or even dead.. Shame of them all !!! There was an interesting article of some bank accounts in Switzerland that the survivors didn't know their parents had.. some organization administered it here in Israel and never bother to " find " the children of the owners of the accounts.... The manager was well getting his salary... Again ... Shame of them !!!

Taxes in Israel are very high for the poor and very law for the rich... there is great inequality and also there if for sure great corruption... and excuses and lies ... Sure if the very rich will pay accordingly and politicians were not cheats and liers we will all live a better life included the Holocaust survivors.. but for sure it is never enough to please the greedy people in the top and also the so many poor in the bottom...

You are insulting Nora... you seem to me a typical sabra, arrogant and rude...who cannot communicate proper without calling people names and what is called character assasination... Nora is giving her opinion in a civilized and " normal" manner while and you reply in an aggresive way... that is the way you also humiliate and ill treat the palestinians in the check point for no reason at all only because you feel you have the right and for sure the right to do it.. but don't forget Sabra that what goes around also comes around soon or later... and what you give you will also receive soon or later..nobody is strong for ever and nothing is the same for ever...

Well there is a great book called " The Holocaust Industry " and may be the author has very good reasons to write that book since his parents were also holocaust survivors May be you like to check this site http://www.normanfinkelstein.com/content.php?pg=3

What of kind of history the kids learn at school in Israel ??? What do they learn about the way the Palestinias were driven out of their houses and land??? Do they learn anything at all ??? When I was a kid I learned that the Indians were the bad guys attacking the poor Spaniards and Portuguese...and even believed that till finally I manage to see the " real thing "... it was not easy... we are really brainwashed at scholl...Aren't we ??? At home I learned how the bad Nazis, mainly " the Germans " killed 6 millions jews not a word about all the others, gays, lesbians, handicapped, communist, and more... Again it took me a long time to learn the " real thing " and of course not a word about the so called Asian Holocaust, that was the Japanese invasion and torture of many countries in Asia and Southeast Asia... for example China, Korea, Borneo, and more...I did learn about it mainly because I lived in Southeast Asia and the people there always talk about the Japanese

Did really the goverment had spent $ 3.5 billions in the Holocaust survivors ?? Do I remember right when the Holocaust Surivors made a demonstration to demand assistance from the goverment to live and die with dignity ???? So where are the 3.5 billions ??? What I see is that some american lawyers made a good living thanks to the Holocaust and their survivors??? They tried to charge about $ 700.00 per hour and got millions when they won a case ???? That seems to me to be a great bussiness... What about donating some of this extravagant income to the very same people that suffered in the Holocaust ??? I believe there is something really wrong and sick in this whole attitude towars the Holocaust and towards Germany too... It is like trying to extract more and more money..using guilt as a tool

We must continue to tell our story even though not everyone is listening. It is our duty to keep the candle lit. That's that. I accept that some peoples will not come around. They go through life as men bonded by hate of another, and so they are trapped. Let us not take that road, that primitive, crude road to nowhere.

I think if this is a "toe in the water" by Rafi Eitan, he might want to pull it out quickly. Incidentally, why is this spy-master, thief and all-wound villain still out of jail?

Anyone familiar with the Jewish people must realise that the blackmail of Germany will NEVER end.

Well, obviously the Jews are still walking around with a chip on their shoulder. I can think of many more subpopulation types that better deserve reparations than the Jews. First off, the religion scam is slowly falling apart, as the new generation sees religion as mythological, far-fetched and foolish. And I would imagine its the same show for jews, many in powerful places actually being atheist. But, this departs from the point I was going to make on the latest effort by Jews for reparation. I doubt seriously it has anything really to due about reparations at all. That may be a disguise for a likely transaction of a political or economic nature. The Jews are intent in broadcasting (reminding) the world of the (exaggerated) events that occurred in concentration camps, to ensure that this "belief" is fervently injected into fragile and ignorant minds. Therefore, at any opportunity, the Jews may package any sort of financial dealings into a "reparation" vehicle.

Israel can have money for amends to its' fake holocaust right after they make amends to lebanon for their very real holocaust against the arabs, and make amends to palestine- the new Nazi occupation of France in progress.. to hell with Israel- the biggest hypocrite on the world stage. May you live to see it wiped off the map as it so justly deserves!!!

I think, Israel should pay Germany reparations not the opposite since the Zionists started WW1 and WW2.

after all the massive looting germans have perpetrated to enrich themselves, you should be ashamed of your taunting us. Not many survived to claim anything. Also the slave labour we provided can never be repaid, as a fraction of these slaves survived.Never was the European continent so looted, not even by Ghingis Khan or Attila.

you can stand by it all you want still won't change what i or anyone else thinks and keep right on with your childish taunts but i suggest not standing too long lest you start to sink... and we've already ascertained what you're standing on is pretty deep.

You said: "...If you do not agree to my position, you do not recognize your responsibility and are anti-semitic. Even if you do not know that you are anti-semitic, we do know, because we are Jewish and you are not." ................. LOL You are funny...really funny! Do you go out much?

Thank you for this moment of truth, at least now I know the real reason why the Holocaust is not to be questioned in any way. What would Israel have done without the Holocaust? As a Jew, you surely know the truth about the Balfour Declaration - if not, check these links and read carefully: http://www.wrmea.com/archives/November_2005/0511044.html , http://desip.igc.org/OriginsOfBalfour.html , http://www.itk.ntnu.no/ansatte/Andresen_Trond/kk-f/2005/0036.html . What does it take to turn a European War into a World War? How many lives were lost because of this "Gentlemen's agreement" for the sake of Israel? It happened long before the Holocaust! Did you ever think about that?

You are the one who is full of "crap" You accept it or not TOUGH! Talking of lines,your one line stinks to high heaven,even through "cyberspace" Enjoy the odour....

Danny Bang on with your sentiments and words. Briefly put,you are correct. Even if they say they are not "Anti-Semitic" We certainly know how true it is and they sure ARE! Good Post Thank You

Just a proposal for an argumentation line for the Israeli government: Murder cannot be compensated by money. Thus, there is no limit as to the total amount. We did not know about all future costs, so any former agreement is not only cynical, but void. Survivors would be traumatized when having to apply directly to German authorities. So, give the money to our government to distribute. We are souvereign, so do not tell us what we should do with the money, and how we distribute or invest it. Other sources of compensation are out of discussion, because only Germany is responsible, because the Shoah is German only and cannot be compared to anything else. The amount that the Nazis have robbed from Jews is indefinite, this your country's wealth is still based on Jewish goods. If you do not agree to my position, you do not recognize your responsibility and are anti-semitic. Even if you do not know that you are anti-semitic, we do know, because we are Jewish and you are not.

Cipora Julianna Kohn should inform herself before claiming that the Marshall Plan was a gift. Europe was in complete chaos and the MP was started to prevent Europe from becoming communist. It was payed back by Germany in 1971. If the Morgenthau Plan that wanted to reduse Germany to farming wold have stayed in place Germany would have not been able to make any payments to Israel so the Marshall Plan also saved Israel from going bankrupt. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Marshall_Plan http://video.google.de/videoplay?docid=-3931360092468576882 http://www.history.ucsb.edu/projects/holocaust/Research/Proseminar/tomerkleinman.htm Any reason why this post was rejected yesterday?

Do you think that "these" billions are anywhere near equal to the billions which Pollard COST the Americans, by stealing secrets,giving them to Israel, who, in turn, SOLD them to the Russians? Damn "Russians", can't trust the bastards, eh!

I am not for German payouts for Russians. But Israel spends a disproportionate amount of its money on arms to protect its citiziens. It cannot afford to do otherwise, will you ever understand that?And American subsidies are a small percentage of their income and its in exchange for intelligence that saves America billions.

Elizabeth Firstly I didn't see any errors in your response.Secondly we all make them,especially myself.You should see how many letters I miss,and so embarrassed when they put it out. I shake my head in desperation lol!I then say:Where is the "e"? What happened to the "t"? and so on.Hey here is a smiley for you. o(~ _*)o like? Best Regards

NOW HUBAL BUTT OUT!! Further more,try and read how other people do it.It will give you an idea how it works,. You do it your way,and I'll do mine... And yes,I am young--you are an OLD MAN NO DOUBT...

and yours is just as deep

Yes Axel I know you put your true name.So do I when I go there.That is not the point.The point is that you and others of your ilk are obsessed with Israel and cannot leave it alone,and beaver away,like a mouse with a cat,trying to find something for your pleasure.That is why I pointed it out,and for no other reason. Surprisingly,there,they do not indulge in the same vein as they do here,hatefully and with impunity. There are many of your ilk who come here like "eager beavers" to try and see what they will read and anxious to put points out.The ones at JPOST though are dignified unlike here at Haaretz whereby they let in the "lunatic fringe" to do their worst. Nevermind,both are not only Zionist newspapers and but worthy ones at that,and have been established in the late 19 century. Whether you come here or to the other one(sorry Haaretz no offence)enjoy the liberty you get and wishing you good luck in the future ... P/S Haaretz plpl put out #373 Axel,Wants it.

Axel Whether you go here with your real name or not mekes no difference.I too go there but with my name too.What I was trying to express by my mentioning you there,(as well here)is that you people(not only Germans which are a minority at JPOST as well as here))is the fact you are obsessed with Israel and the Jews.You are little beavers,beavering away to find something and like small worms trying to dig.That was my point,and nothing ontoward in my mention of your presense there.Capish?

Put one at the beginning of a quote and another at the end. They work wonders for clarity and even deal with any risk of accusation of plagiarism. I think they are called 'quotation marks'. Perhaps we'll converse again when you finish your primary education?

Yes, they are easily recognizable by their low IQ, I noticed the references they posted to their arguements came from Utube, yes thats really high IQ and a credible academic source to make a case, haha NOT! LOL.They also post in the subject, because most know we dont bother with their ignorance, the hatred I could care less about...I have noticed that along with the propaganda and lies they puke quite regularly, they actually believe the idea of the ghetto Jew and Jew as victim,lmao lol, they need to reread how Israel smeared the ground with Arab blood through so many wars outnumbered and victorious, why do you think they come to this site and beotch daily and cry give us our land boohoo, my opinion: The Grand Mufti should have made shure to take all of his drek decades ago and not left behind the remaining Sh#t.

Jon You must be a new comer to visit Haaretz'forums Not only the Durson woman,but also Clickfool, indrajaya(from Jakarta no less)false and hateful/drooling anti-Zionist Hannah,and the rest too numerous to mention.No,they are not paid(hope not)by Haaretz.It is their deep hatred that brins them here everyday,no surprise to us the regulars who try and counteract the vile prounements.It is a disgusting phenomenon,but Haaretz besides being a Zionist Newspaper and owned by a Zionist Jew,it is also very liberal paper which let in many anti-Israel writers(all Jews by he way)and respondents to put their views daily on this site.You will have to get used to it.Come more often and do us a favour by putting your good points to share with us.Thank You

Elizabeth I am glad after your frustration to see your posts today "Sunday" and reading with such positive anger on what and how we should SQUEEEZZZ...T o the last cent for the retrieve our gold,art treasures and everything which is still in the hands of THIEVES,and have yet to be given to the survivors(if alive)but nevertheless to their descendants.They are trying I hear from time,to time with such difficulties,which is an exhausting job because the THIEVES make it so difficult to come to terms and return what is by right belonging to our people.I feel for you and at long last your posts are out.I did explain to you about the frustrations we feel,and people like(Durson Click,indra and many more who are allowed to spew venom)with ease.Some of us have become immune to a degree and I for one recognize them by their title and ignore them knowing their distorted views,and do not need more aggravation than necessary. Very Best Regards

Ms.Kohn What you wrote to me in your response was more than an eye opener and proof that the compensations given were merly paltry,and the indignity suffered by the Holocaust victims is very shameful.I shall keep yours as reference fo my edification. Best Regards

If it is so pathetic then you should stop continuing with this charade to justify the errors of your ways.It seems you have brought out the song"Spring time With Hitler" very apt. By all means let us sing along.However you have nothing to sing about,but much to cry ON......

If you think the Arabs need compensation,the places/Countries they should ask for compensation are their Arab brethren(All)who put them in the situation they have found themselves in,and certainly no need for you to bring in our Jews from Russia and the Arab countries they fled from into the equation.So JUST CUT THE CRAP! The Arab/Palis(to give them their correct nomenclature)were/are still the pawns kept for generations by their brothers and its consequences.

Why should we Germans change? No one is advocating that you must change. These are your words not ours. can understand your bitterness about that seeing what the Germans did to your people barely 60 years back. But you have nobody else to blame. Germany build herself up from the rubble in few years...you instead are stuck still in a neverending war with your neighbours for the same time. Not achieving much actually. (Germany) No you did not do it on your own. It was with the great financial help by America plus the rest of the allies who sustained and helped put you on your feet. Remember and don?t forget. Your country was in ruins after World War 2..And if I may add a crucial point NO! we are not bitter, there is no need for us to feel bitterness Herr Germany. And harzion myself and others here most certainly NOT PATHETIC.Perhaps you are the pathetic one,NUFF SAID..

Cipora. There is a method of comparison to 'Wages'! Every dollar in 1952 is worth $11.77 in 2006 using the unskilled wage index. Not a great deal more than the CPI. However most people would agree that the CPI, which reflects on a basket of goods and services is the most legitimate to use in comparing real values from one time to another. It reflects the average purchasing power. After all the average working man does not complain of his inability to purchase an ounce of Gold or basket of shares at todays prices? These are far too narrow a measure, of little interest to large numbers of people. As you mention Gold perhaps you realise that Gold has only this year recovered it's 1979 values? Does this mean that the US dollar has the same purchasing power as it did in 1979? Of course not. That's why people generally prefer to use CPI. It is less easy to manipulate to suit one's arguments:) Re your post 374. It is less a gift than a bargain. It was not cash given in return for nothing in return. It was a quid pro quo. In the same way that US credits to Israel for military expenditure is not a gift in the common understanding of the word. They require Israel to spend a proportion of the monies on US armaments. Imagine if I offered to pay off all your debts. You would rightly regard that as a gift. Would you be so inclined to do so if I demanded in return that you give up your right to spend your monies in certain establishments that did not meet with my approval and on goods which I prohibit?

Many posters are mentioning loss of family property or business from the 1930's or 40's. They should be fully supported in reclaiming it if it exists but it should be for the survivor or their descendants. It does not belong to the "Jewish people" or the State of Israel. The Holocaust is so horrific because of the industrial scale murder of the 1940's, the early discrimination and confiscation of business in the 1930's was bad but is no worse than many occasions around the planet when one racial group has discriminated against another, Sikh's forced out of Pakistan in 1948, Asians forced out of Uganda, in the 1970's Greeks forced out of Turkey in 1920's, mass movement all over eastern Europe in 1940's. If the property still exists after being bombed by the British and US, then shelled by the Soviets, then the contents carried off to Russia as reparations then the descendants should be able to reclaim them.

You are right the expensive euro is bad for the export. But the expensive euro is good for energy (oil, gas aso). So I think is more a winning situation. And you can not beat the chinese prices. The americans can not beat them either. But the biggest problem for the chinese is there food situation. They will not able to feet there population with high quality products. So this is good for the european farmers espacially for the cheese heads in the netherlands and the milk heads in germany.

I'm not afraid about the russians. But there are a few countries in the new eu they try to make a front against the russians. (They hate russians)

There seem to be multiple issues getting mixed up here. Eitan wants to rip up a 1950's era agreement which stipulated that Germany would compensate Israel and Israel would look after the survivors. He uses the argument of increased life expectancy and the 150,000 Russian survivors who have arrived. Well presumably the Israeli citizens who are not survivors also have increased life expectancy and are they in poverty too, and who encouraged the Russians to come and did the government not realise it was taking on an obligation to look after them in their old age. I do not know the details of the reparations between Germany and Stalin but they were not small, Germany would not be being asked to pay again if these Russians had moved to UK, US, Australia etc. The complaint from Germany seems to be they paid, the Israeli Government spent it on something else,now they want more. Germany should not pay the Israeli government any more, reclaiming property for individuals is another issue.

This is so pathetic, it could be a Broadway Play. Maybe a jingle called "Spring time for Zionism and the Israelis" Everyone, sing along......

At what point do you STOP using the holocaust to get attention and money? And what is with this FRESH reparation? This is no longer a fresh memory? Get with the new millenium, ok? I think the world is past 2 generations after WWII. STOP trying to brand the holocaust, and cashing in.

the issue of 175,000 russian jews who claim survivor status should be a bit of an issue. israel went to great lengths to bring these people into isreal to fill its settlements; including trading secrets it stole from it's ONLY ally. so i really can't help but question where the liability for these immigrants lies...and exactly how their "survivor" status is determined. personally i hope that germany does NOT yield to the pressures...(the anti-semitic label and of course the big "N" word)...that are sure to be applied towards it. no one should be forced or pressured to subsidize israel's goals. if it can't afford the promises it makes to lure and entice immigrants to come to israel, and at the same time maintain it's military excesses; then it needs to cut its spending on one or the other...just like the united states has been forced to do...while still subsidizing israel! and there always remains that question that will haunt israel till the end... what of the millions of palestinians who have NEVER received compensation...and never will!

there is NO comparison between the holocaust and what has transpired in iraq. right...wrong...or indifferent, and whether it was known beforehand or not, that there was no wmd in iraq...there IS no comparison. and if reparations be sought by the iraqis; they need to look to the shiite extremists, the sunni extremists, and your friendly al qa'ida representatives in iraq who not only killing iraqis at an unbelievable rate; but who have also perpetuated the acts that have inflamed sectarian violence among them. it's no secret...even among the iraqis...that the popularity of the coalition and its invasion of iraq has dropped from well over 70% to where it is today...NOT because of the coalition's presense...but because of the widespread sectarian violence which has resulted from it... which by the way...is the ONLY reason the coalition has not yet withdrawn its forces. there's a reason that despite all...the iraqi government does NOT want the coalition to leave yet(except for al-sadr, of course, who's brigade is behind alot of the "slaughter" in iraq). and there's a reason that many sunni tribes ...and even sunni insurgent groups...are starting to work WITH the americans...in order to oust the REAL culprits in iraq. and WHO then would be responsible for "reparations" were the u.s. and its coalition to leave iraq today? who will be held accountable for the sectarian genocide that results? the biggest reason the u.s. remains in iraq today is the responsibility it OWES to the iraqi people. and if you can't see that; you're completely blind! that a mistake was is a given...but to compound that mistake by walking away will never be forgiven. and finally...reparations ARE being made to families in the case of wrongful death. there are also reparations by way of countless local projects to improve the quality of life for iraqis, and to rebuild an economic infrastructure that had fallen into complete disrepair under saddam since the first "gulf war". both of these IN SPITE OF repeated and unrelenting sabotage of those efforts by insurgent groups. it's true that by removing saddam, the coalition removed the cork that had kept this all in check; but at least lay the blame for the slaughter of innocent iraqis where it belongs. even the iraqis do that!

I think it would be best when Germany takes over the caring for the needs of the still living Holocaust survivors. (Like we do with our own pensioners) That way it can be assured that they get the help and support they need and deserve. (And only a prosperous country like Germany really has the means to do that) And after the last one is brought to rest we, Germany and Israel, once and for all part ways for good. Diplomatic relationship yes, friendship surely not. the End Agreed?

"Rather than accept blood money from the nazis.I would not touch it with a BARGE POLE!" I'm glad to hear that...:)

Yes, a society who cares for her unemployed IS prosperous and something to be proud of. It's surely not the rule and a big achievement especially when a huge duty is to be fulfilled by the people. Actually I don't quite get your point? Couldn't you find another point to smear Germany? One better suited to your needs? Try again...

Why should we Germans change? Contrary to you we prosper and are well respected. YOU come to us to beg for diplomatic help, monetary help, political help, technological help etc.. I can understand your bitterness about that seeing what the Germans did to your people barely 60 years back. But you have nobody else to blame. Germany build herself up from the rubble in few years...you instead are stuck still in a neverending war with your neighbours for the same time. Not achieving much actually. When people like harizon and fed up or judenstaat try to downtalk Germany it's to make them feel better about all these facts...it's understandable but pathetic nonetheless. PS: Did you see the images of Germany last year, the Sommermärchen? People from all over the world partied in Germany, lot's of french too... :)

The claims are filed in Germany, and are decided upon by German judges. German judges are certainly more competent to determine these claims than you or durson. What happens between Israel and Germany is strictly their business.

There are still orphans of the Holocaust who have not been compensated. Why should the orphans of the Wermacht be compensated, but not orphans of the Holocaust? There are people who were orphaned as children and somehow survived, and sent to Israel after the war. One such person was sent to a Kibutz at age ten. He, being originally German, received an SUV and some pension. It allowed him to have some means to survive monitarily, but he was emotionally totally destroyed. There is no way these people can be compensated, but their horror should not be compounded by the indignity of extreme poverty. Contrary to what the antisemites claim, the total amount paid out by Germany is really small. The total amount comes to at most $1000 per German of today.

the issue of 175,000 russian jews who claim survivor status should be a bit of an issue. israel went to great lengths to bring these people into isreal to fill its settlements; including trading secrets it stole from it's ONLY ally. so i really can't help but question where the liability for these immigrants lies...and exactly how their "survivor" status is determined. personally i hope that germany does NOT yield to the pressures...(the anti-semitic label and of course the big "N" word)...that are sure to be exerted on its government. no one should be forced or pressured to subsidize israel's goals. if it can't afford the promises it makes to lure and entice immigrants to come to israel, while at the same time maintaining it's military spending; then it needs to cut its spending on one or the other...just like the united states has been forced to do...while still subsidizing israel! and there always remains that will haunt israel till the end... what of the millions of palestinians who have NEVER received compensation...and never will!

Tell that to the working and middle classes who have seen their earnings shrink. Salaries have not kept up with rising prices anywhere. The price index is not an accurate measure. The price of gold, too, has multipled 17-18 fold since 1952. In 1952, the price of gold was around $38.5, whereas today it is some $670.

I am withdrawing nothing when it comes to the poodle - Bush's lap dog and a war criminal in his own right. He IS responsible for dropping the bribery charge against BAE, isn't he? was there ever anything BAE could not get from Tony the poodle? Was he responsible for knowing that there were no wmd's in Iraq, and particip[ating in the sexing up of dossiers? of course he was. Hutton was a white wash and everyone in the UK knows it. Not much research is required to know that going to Iraq and murdering people there in cold blood was next worst thing to genocide. What Iraqis should look into is maybe hiring schnorers like Eitan to see if they can get a few hundred billions out of US and UK (+ the rest of the billing "coalition") as compensation. After all, for the Iraqis that invasion brought nothing but massacres, death and torture wrapped in hollow words of democracy. maybe you should do some research regarding your own responsibility in coming to the aid of pretty doggy blair?

# 13 i tend to agree with natallie on this one...and if YOU can see it you're more than a little SELECTIVELY blind! i fail to see it as ANY sort of low on her part. #14 your readers digest version of history is pathetically skewed and you finish this post off nicely with a shining example of your ignorance and your bigotry. #15 how is it that france is so easily off the hook for its contributions to israel's military muscle, which it strokes so boldly while murdering palestinian civilians(remember now, it kills noncombatants and combatants at a rate of about 2-1)...and is held accountable till the last "survivor" dies. #17 and you're wrong about germany being liable for every last holocaust survivor. how is it that "agreements" are so easily ignored by israel when it serves it's purpose; but tenaciously adhered to when it does not? and i'd love to know how their "survivor" status is determined; especially among those 175,000 russian jews...

Hi again, Fed-up. :) I just asked my mom and my sister if they knew that German companies were helping Iran to produce nukes because I wondered if I was the only one who had missed out on some information... They both didn't know it either but said that it's quite bad because of what Achmadinedschad says about Israel. I wonder why Axel is so obsessed with Israel. I came to read Haaretz because I visited have friends in Israel and now I'd like to read Israeli news once in a while. And from the message boards I have learnt some interesting facts.

lol, harizon the interviewers were not German and the study was not about Germany. Other countries got bad scores in the study but Germany didn't. If the interviewed people would have been scared to be impolite all countries should have gotten 70% positive responses, right ? It's true that by the time of the reunification many Europeans were suspicious. But it was 1989 and now it's 2007. Attitudes have changed. Whether you like it or not.

You are the one sitting here trying to justify the unjustifiable. What the survivors ask is for pensions for slave labour. Normally I do not get involved with these issues, but you push the envelop. Read the article in Der Spiegel and learn something. Otherwise, leave us alone.

Rather than accept blood money from the nazis.I would not touch it with a BARGE POLE! The fact that some elderly survivors are in dire need and must be compensated is another matter.But as far as I am concerned,like harzion it would make me want to VOMIT TO ACCEPT BLOOD MONEY.KEEP IT AN ANJOY THE JOYS YOU HAVE RECIEVED FORM THE GOLD AND ARTS YOU HAVE STOLEN FROM ALL THE JEWS STILL TO BE Returned...best of luck...

from whom you looted property and destroyed their businesses.(their lives we will leave for the heavens to avenge) so your taunts about money are rather off the mark.you have not paid a fraction of the destruction you perpetrated.

axel it was your boasting about your prosperity that made me remind you that 8.7% of your population is unemployed.pretty shameful number for a so called "prosperous "country. perhaps they do not count in your reckoning? 3.7 millions without jobs is no small matter.

"the whole european continent is suspicious of you." Whatever the whole European continent thinks of Germany ... The voice of a German-hating Jewish interpreter is the least-needed authority to define what Europe thinks of Germany.

do you think you can put a line under your past and forget all.your past deeds are your nature.you will surely repeat them.from the war against the french in 1870 to the first war and then the second and then suddenly you will behave well? we will see german aggression and perfidy again.

Hey Axel think before you open your mouth. You read what Ms.Kohn said:You have nothing to be proud about.You have started two wars where many were killed thanks to your country,and you lost both of them.So, nothing to be proud about it seems....Enjoy life while you can.

see saul freedlander jews in germany between 1933 and 1939.

Apart from my short post to you,which I hope does not surface,all I have to say to you is: LITTLE THINGS AMUSE LITTLE MINDS TO SAY YOU ARE A FOOL WOULD BE AN UNDERSTATEMENT

the jews you looted in germany and the rest of europe have to be paid back. as for as taking money that does not belong to us the sight of you makes us retch. i always thought that those who would not buy german cars were a little wrong.after hearing from you and axel and the disgusting dee i now know how right thay are.you have not changed one bit.but why should we expect you to change?

The said post Hubal was mine to Ms.Kohn,and I put my addendum,but was not connected to the said Marshal Plan. Good heavens,Ms.Kohn has just replied to you on the subject.I should read it again,and hopefully you will understand the ghist of it. I DID NOT MENTION ANY MARSHAL PLAN WHATEVER.SIMPLE REASON I DO NOT KNOW ANYTHING PERTAINING TO IT,PERIOD!

the jews who managed to get out alive perhaps 250000 were not allowed to take their money with them. those who remained until before the war were harassed and had their businesses smashed.you did not allow germans to buy from them. who has totalled the degree of economic savegery you have perpetrated.you would not pay for the damage you caused in ten lifetimes.

"german unemployment october 2007 3.67 millions.that is 8.7% of the population. prosperous ?not for everyone i think axel." Perhaps your obsession with unemployment in Germany could be eased if you occupy yourself with the percentage of US Americans without health insurance, or the number of Israeli Children living below the poverty line.

there were 550000 jews living in germany before 1933.a very rich community.you did what you did and then looted their belongings.no amount of money you have paid would compensate german jews for the looting of properties and businesses.

"(by the way Axel not only comes here,but also posts at Jerusalem Post Reregularely)." Noticed that? and why? because I have no problem posting with my name and nationality. Perhaps when you come of age, you can hope to reach for the same standards. Until then, continue as a spoiled brat.

you paid money for your monstrous crimes and we the jews profited?

"How could anyone be envious of Germany? You people had started two world wars and caused the deaths of countless millions. Smart Germans would not make the claim that anyone is envious of them." Smart Israelis would see that always pointing on Germany's past is a useless effort in downgrading Germany's present. Well ... smart Israelis.

they do not want to be impolite to the interviewers.the whole european continent is suspicious of you.why do you think maggie thatcher tried to stop germany from uniting? after the wars you caused and the killings you perpetrated are you surprised?

Having a motivation in giving gifts does not mean that they are not gifts.

A good oirish boy and away with thee.or else oil tell yer mamie and papie(you know your fatter)how naughty you are behavin' over in the US eh? mind thee self now wontcha!

This 2 dimensional troll is on every article, never contributing a thoughtful or honest post but writing things merely to provoke a reaction. Her juvenile attacks seem so contrived that I've begun to wonder if she's a writer at haaretz tasked with trying to encourage debate in the threads by posting idiotic tirades against the Jews. If she really is some Jew hater in California I actually pity her for she's diseased with an evil that eats at her to commit so much vain energy to the futile hobby of hatred. But more likely she's a Jew with a lot of self-hate and time on her hands who thinks it's funny to rattle cages.

so you think little of the jews. before the war and before you started your murders on an industrial scale german universities were filled with jewish faculty.when you expelled the jews from your centres of learning german science suffered. for proof look to the universities in the usa where jews expelled from your loathsome country made a huge contribution. the german judiciary included a very large percentage of jews as did medicine.and german literature.and you say "no jew could....." that is just boastful talk.

"are you selfish enough to say that "some germans are prosperous so we do not care about those with no jobs" is that your nature axel?" Even the most prosperous states have some degree of unemployment. I do not see what you are up to.

"But Axel don`t write as if you speak in the name of all Germans." Did I? I think it's obvious that none of the posters here represents anybody than himself - though perhaps assuming that he is not a solitary voice. "I`m German as well and I disagree to you posts. Sorry." You're welcome to disagree. Why not? "Also why do you get so angry about the 300 million that Israel has asked to help holocaust survivors but you don`t care about to the billions we pay to Spain each year through the EU ?" First, do not compare uncomparables. The EU finances are a different, quite complex issue. Second, the point is not in numbers, but in principles. My opinion is that we are not the milking cow whenever the Israeli budget is low.

$1 is equivalent to $7.59 using the Consumer Price Index as comparison between 1952 and 2006. CPI is not the only way of determining real value but it is the most commonly used.Certainly more sound than using stock or real estate values. http://www.measuringworth.com/calculators/ uscompare/result.php

the germans of verdun and the somme and stalingrad have not disappeared.you are your father's children. axel your cv will surely and gradually fill up.all you need is time.it is in your nature. who else could do what you did?the bestiality is peculiar to you.

Yes, Germany has unemployment. But call me another country which would had achieved in the last decades what Germany has...bringing East Germany up to western standards. I can't think of one actually! And even our unemployed are cared for, are NOT left alone to rot homeless and without medicine like in so many other countries. We can be proud of so many of our achievements!

when he said "we are prosperous" he actually meant to say "we are preposterous".no problem axel i know english is a difficuly language.and you are quire right axel you are preposterous.

german unemployment october 2007 3.67 millions.that is 8.7% of the population. prosperous ?not for everyone i think axel.

Alex hello You must be very young(I too am)But!that you had to ask your mother,sister etc,and you were not aware that Germany is trading with Iran until you read Haaretz?Funny!No, perhaps not,since we are here quite often and get the latest news because we are interested about the safety of Israel.So,we come and read and discuss.(by the way Axel not only comes here,but also posts at Jerusalem Post Reregularely). Shuush a secret,(I am a European,but don't tell anybody)Okay Bye for now

You said: "...keep it.the thought of taking german money makes me vomit." And I wish more Jews were like you! :)

Oh yes, Germany is a very well respected country. You can even have statistics and polls to support that....here for example: Ever heard of the Nation Brand Index? http://www.nationbrandindex.com/ Every few months thousands of people around the world will be asked what they think of other countries achievements, governments, culture, citizens and so on... Guess where Germans stands? Second place (only to GB)...yes, harizon...Germany is very well admired and respected. Even in front of countries like France or the United States... Now guess again how popular Israel is? Place 37 (of 38) barely in front of Indonesia! Excuse me...but I trust this professional poll more than your wishful thinking that everybody and their dog hates the Germans like you do! PS: Israel should really do more for their PR...it's downright shitty!

"as for your money axel it is stained with blood.keep it.the thought of taking german money makes me vomit." I would gladly keep it. But the demands keep coming in. Pompously distancing yourself as an individual won't help. And even as an individual you can't avoid having profited from German money. It happened, with or without your consent.

Oh yes, Germany is a very well respected country. You can even have statistics and polls to support that....here for example: Ever heard of the Nation Brand Index? http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/objects/pages/SendResponse.jhtml?itemno=922252&cont=2 Every few months thousands of people around the world will be asked what they think of other countries achievements, governments, culture, citizens and so on... Guess where Germans stands? Second place (only to GB)...yes, harizon...Germany is very well admired and respected. Even in front of countries like France or the United States... Now guess again how popular Israel is? Place 37 (of 38) barely in front of Indonesia! Excuse me...but I trust this professional poll more than your wishful thinking that everybody and their dog hates the Germans like you do! PS: Israel should really do more for their PR...it's downright shitty!

The motives for the Marshall Plan were both economic and political. Just to point to one aspect of the economic motive: George Marshall was quoted in an early 1948 State Department bulletin: "It is idle to think that a Europe left to its own efforts...would remain open to American business in the same way that we have known it in the past." Most of the money went to American businesses exporting to Europe. At least 10% of the aid money went for European purchases of oil, moving them away from coal-dependency (which involved dealing with troublesome trade unions) to oil dependency, with the U.S. dominant in the world oil market. The political motive was to shore up anti-Communist governments in France and Italy. Truman's Secretary of State Dean Acheson said at the time: "These measures of relief and reconstruction have been only n part suggested by humanitarianism. Your Congress has authorized and your Government is carrying out, a policy of relief and reconstruction today chiefly as a matter of national self-interest".

By the way, as a Jew and as a child of Holocaust survivors, I feel that we should end the whole compensation saga and get on with it...not because ENOUGH has been paid, because enough can never be paid to compensate for such a crime, but because it is time. But it never ceases to amaze me how such an article draws out the anti-semite low-lifes such as Axel and Kiwi and Durson from under the rocks where they spend their slimy existences.

have said the same.They can keep their filthy blood money I wouldn't touch it with a "BARGE POLE" thank you.But thee are some poor survivors who need it,and THEY OWE IT TO THEM!But me?never in a million years... Aren't they the same B......S eh? Scratch the surface,and it sure enough the dirt comes out,as night follows day.I knew it instantly.It is a feeling somehow one has about them.Perhaps we must not put them all in the same"basket",but still suspicions do tend to linger...

How do you know about it ? Did you ask many French people ? I read about a survey by the US state department which did research about the attitude towards different countries in the world. I remember it said 70% of French people have a positive view of Germany. Also a British agency did a study on the respectedness of countries in different parts of the world and Germany got rather good scores. It may be annoying to you but that's what the studies found out.

Nobody has to envy Germany. Like the Japanese they had made it all the way. Germany has to deal with lot of problems brought in by the old DDR. Most unemployment is there. Please don’t forget that Germany is located on an excellent place on the globe. Surrounded by wonderful countries like: Switzerland, the Netherlands, Luxemburg or Denmark up north. This is luxury the Israeli do not have. Some folks are last lucky than the others. If a folk is meant to live on his sword, it has to do it the best way by having good arms and excellent soldiers. Israel is trying hard to build a good economy even if there is a war outside. Thanks God the IDF is still capable to defend. Peace with Muslims is for the end of days. By the way Axel peace is a temporary situation between wars. How can you know there isn’t a new war on schedule within few years?

you wrote in post # 332-------"# 309 Axel ha ha ha ha Gotcha! You see How you Are Caught?" In an earlier post above you wrote----"Wonder if this post of mine will surface he he he?Best of luck............" Are you sure you are not home alone.Your parents should be ashamed.

"Do you think for one moment I would give you my real background and private business?" You wrote you are an Israeli Jew. If you are not, so be it. If you take a childish satisfaction of having played hide-and-seek, so be it, too. Talking of having "caught me" is a good laugh. I have no problem speaking my mind. Getting something out of me which I would not let out voluntarily takes more than a Jew (Israeli or not Israeli). At the end of the day what is your achievement?

Fed-Up. YOUR post#310 "I did not converse nor did I write anything about the Marshall Plan.You`ve got the wrong person.Go back and read sloooowly and carefuleeee! thanks"...Fed-Up... Fed-Up. YOUR post#239... "It is odd that no one questions the approximately 15,000,000,000 paid out by the Marshall Plan to help post-war Europe, of which 1,500,000,000 was paid to Germany".. Fed-Up..#239 Go back and read sloooowly and carefuleeee! thanks"...Hubal... On second thoughts have an early night.

How could anyone be envious of Germany? You people had started two world wars and caused the deaths of countless millions. Smart Germans would not make the claim that anyone is envious of them.

assuming you're right...130 billion divided by 6million equals...$22,000 a piece. I'd say the Germans got off pretty easy. How much is the life of one of your family members worth Dav?

"Finally GB, Denmark and Sweden had chosen not to make use of the Euro. They enjoy a flourishing economy . There is not the slightest chance they will join the European Monkey?s circus." You won't insinuate that countries other than these three do not enjoy a flourishing economy, or would you? By 2008, the Euro currency is used in the larger part of the EU, larger by number of countries, population, and GNP. More states are applying. They are all deceived and stupid - or shoshana is.

You still have not learned to read. The 150 billion I cited was the entire Marshall Plan, and I made that very clear. Germany received about 10% of the Marshall Plan. In other words, Germany, which was responsible for the war and the slaughter of countless millions, received more payment from the US through the Marshall Plan than Germany had agreed to pay in reperations. I wonder what those Americans who had lost their sons and husbands would have said regarding a gift of this magnitute to their murderers. p.s. the value of the dollar that you cite from the federal reserve is not believable. any person would know that it is sheer nonsense. in 1986, the value of the stock market was less than two thousand dollars. today, it is over thirteen thousand dollars. if you look at real estate anywhere in the western world, it has risen much more proportinally than average salaries. i am surprised that you do not see this.

"axel remember it was you who are the evil ones.the killings were your deeds alone. was ... are ... were. And besides, there are no killings in my CV.

in what way are you prosperous?are you selfish enough to say that "some germans are prosperous so we do not care about those with no jobs" is that your nature axel?

EITHER PUT UP OR SHUT DOWN. THE LINK FOr all the jew haters ignorant uneducated morons here who know dick squat about the Holocaust or Holocaust Restitution ...if you can read, or I suggest find a jew to read it to you....haha. Here; Report by Prof. Irwin Cotler in the Cardoza Law Review: The Holocaust, Thefticide and Restitution; a Legal Perspective. Sidney Zabludoff: Restitution of Holocaust Era Assets: Promises and Reality. NOW READ IF YOU CAN READ, EVERY WORD LIKE IT WAS A SHARD OF GLASS THAT YOU ARE SWALLOWING AND KNOW THAT EVERY SINGLE SOLITARY PENNY WILL BE REURNED AND SQUEEZED OUT OF YOUR GOV.'S BANKS AND ORGANIZATIONS AND CORPORATIONS WITH OUR SINCERE PLEASURE. BEST REGARDS, ELLIZABETH DAUGHTER OF A SURVIVOR WHO ALSO BLEW UP GERMAN TRAINS:):):)

"there are many jews who still look to europe and long for it.you axel are the perfect antidote." I doubt it. There is certainly a considerable number among them who are looking for Europe because they are disgusted that first the Israeli government offers a humiliating sum to holocaust survivors, and when protests are coming in, prostitutes itself by begging for German money. Israeli government agencies always spread the numbers of immigrants. Numbers of emigrants are almost impossible to obtain. Guess why.

of thieves and murders: "Leaders of the Proletariat Revolution." http://www.redicreations.com/specialreports/2005/10oct/gulagcommies.html You should also make an effort to read the following: Aleksandr Solzhenitsyn's book: "The Gulag Archipelago." "The Life of an American Jew in racist Marxist Israel." by Jack Burnstein 1985 "Ben Gurion's Scandals: How the Haganah and Mossad Eliminated Jews." by Naem Giadi http://books.google.com/books?id=whcYfhrGx7wC&pg=PA7&IPg=PA75&dq=sinking+patria&source Yes Elizabeth, return that which has been stolen, but how do you return the lives to those who could have been saved, but were not because of Zionist selection criteria during the Nazi era in which they cooperated!! End note. Following the war thousands of British orphans were sent to Australia. Horrific stories of abuse to Australian orphans have surfaced. One such story was by one of my aunts. A British orphan said to be of German origin... were her parents Jewish. No one knows...

Your country is lucky the Americans decided to build you up after your atrocities. You got no punishment after the war and you are sitting pretty now. Israel has to protect the survivors of your tsunami in Europe and has to spend on arms, alas.

after the blood-letting of verdun and the somme in the first war.and the fires of dresden in the second i am not surprised you do not want to fight in afghansitan. but axel your nature will show through.your armies will make similar attempts in the future and you will meet a similar fate.

It seems that you got angry because of some posters today and therefore you started to write harsh things. But Axel don't write as if you speak in the name of all Germans. I'm German as well and I disagree to you posts. Sorry. Also why do you get so angry about the 300 million that Israel has asked to help holocaust survivors but you don't care about to the billions we pay to Spain each year through the EU ?

depends who you ask.in iran it is respected.ask the french what they think of you and any smile on their face would quickly disappear.

Your wrote: Probably Germany is more tolerant to his Muslim citizens than the Netherlands. The Germans will react: Oh Maria Josef! Du hasst den Koffer kaputt! Aber Ehrlich!. This is real fun!. As a matter of fact the Netherlands is still doing for it’s Muslim and other foreign population a whole lot. From housing to special aid at school. Social benefit etc. The same as in Denmark. In both countries the overflow of aid had not pushed their motivation any way. Germany had mainly to deal with Turks and they are different. They are better educated and they have less analphabets. The Dutch and the Jews do not have to talk about religion; most people on both sides do not care for religion any more. As my old uncle Frits used to say; we both don’t believe in the fairy tales of Hans Christian Andersen. Which Sachsen do you mean? Nieder Sachsen, Sachsen Anhalt of just the area round Drezden? No we have enough of our own.

"your so called prosperity includes the highest rate of unemployment in europe." The unemploxment in Germany is above-average in Europe, but not the highest rate. Furthermore, it is declining. Besides, how unhappy would you feel if we could boast full employment. Would make you even more envious.

poor?in what way?not in achieving academic distinction surely.nor as you admitted in war.nor as you obviously know in literature or music. do you mean money.too many jewish billionaires for you to argue that. so you mean eitan's money request.he does not speak for the jewish people. and as for your money axel it is stained with blood.keep it.the thought of taking german money makes me vomit.

From your post I can see that you are a super politically correct europhile. But if you say you are more worried about Russia than about Islamistic fundamentalists it sounds really stupid !! Also it has nothing to do with colonialism. Like Shoshanna said... Germany or Sweden had no colonies in the Muslim world and still there are Islamistic extremists living in that countries. Russia is not a threat to our modern way of life. Russians don't have a law which says people should be stoned to death... Actually if you had ever traveled to Russia with open eyes you would have seen that most people there are our friends. Even though Russia had suffered terribly under German occupation and more people were murdered there than in any other country.

our militarism is a direct result of your activities 60 years ago.thought you would know that.

You tride and failed,and once again you showed your usual prejudice and hatefulness for all to see.Do you think for one moment I would give you my real background and private business? No,no no Axel.I proved you for what you really are,and I proved to myself exactly what I wanted to know.Thanks to me,I exposed you for what you are.The usual hidden german mentality and the rest.Go now and have a beer on me Axel..

Fed-up, it was a misunderstanding. In one of your posts you had mentioned a report on the NDR tv channel. Therefore I thought that you were German or living in Germany. To answer your question: No, I do not approve the German trade with Iran at all. I think sanctions should be imposed on Iran until the radical Mullah leadership is gone. Other German people who I have asked about this (I asked my mom and my sister and a friend today)also think like me. I don't deny that there are still Germans who are anti-semitic but many are not. Until I read the Haaretz posts I didn't know German companies did trade with Iran.

Your claim that the Marshall Plan was about self-interest is irrelevant. What is relevant is that the US made it possible for Germany and the rest of Europe to become prosperous by handing over a huge some of money. These monies were not "owed" in any shape or form to Germany. It was a gift.

To Axel and Kraut With all respect for your positive attitude toward the Euro, there are facts that speak for themselves. My brother is working in Israel for a high tech firm. They had long lasting contacts with a Dutch company in the Eindhoven area. The Dutch guys are professionals who deliver excellent products. After introducing the Euro the Israeli firm was compelled to reduce there contacts in Holland. Reason: The Euro had made the products too expensive. The tragic of loosing clients, due to the expensive Euro, had happened to many others all over Western Europe. How many firms had gone since 2002 bankrupt? Why do you think the Chinese are doing their best to keep their current exchange law? They want to sell. Finally GB, Denmark and Sweden had chosen not to make use of the Euro. They enjoy a flourishing economy . There is not the slightest chance they will join the European Monkey’s circus.

Axel Oh you are awfully childish and gullible.But I don't care,for it brought you out as I expected and you are nothing but a puff ball. And Oopppss out goes your reputation.Do you think I would give you my privatebusiness just to please your curiosity?Oh well,I proved my point and you exposed yours as hateful as ever. Now go and sulk away....

"no axel you would find things have changed.there are no more victims here." I see at least ONE victim already. Someone who is a victim of boastful militarism. You poor Jew, our strength is being prosperous and secure WITHOUT feeling the need to brag about our armed forces. The IDF can defend you, peace it cannot achieve. And with people like you Israel is far, far away from peace.

Don't spending so much money on your weaponry but giving some to your suvivors and you wouldn't have to beg now. Germany surely doesn't have the best airforce but we are a well respected, rich, stable country. And I prefer it that way! Guten Tag! :)

"You really have to learn how to read. The numbers I cited are from 1952. Thus the value of the Marshall Plan in today`s dollar would amount to 150 billion, at the very least. This calculation does not take into consideration the interests and productivity accrued." - CJ Cone Calculating is usually considered harder than reading. For a Martian, it might even be an impossibility. Here is an Earthly little fact. 1 dollar of 1952 is equivalent to today's 7.78 dollars. If, according to you, the Marshall plan gave Germany $1.5 billion, they are equivalent today to $11.67 billion, NOT $150 billion that you heard thru your antennas. Remember, we don't have a central computer to do calculations for you. What I don't understand, for somebody who arrived on Earth such a short time ago and has no real Earthly skills, didn't you learn already to keep quite and not get into arguments with Earthlings? You make yourself sound like a fool for those people imagining you to be one of us.

Holocaust survivors make not ?all?necessarily good Jews. There?s your answer to a stupid comment. So,Finkelstein?s parents were H.Survivors,also many others. Difference is that the ones you mentioned are a rare breed and are evil to the core. Now go and play a video game?IDIOT...

The famous Starfighter was brought to Israel, so that Israeli pilots could work out the flying technique, as the Luftwaffe couldnt get it right. The famous widow was a blast according to our pilots. That was in the 60·s.

people with a marginal---." what a ludicrous statement.a truly foolish man.

your so called prosperity includes the highest rate of unemployment in europe. i see you are true to form quick to divide jews into the non aryans category.nothing has changed.

Elizabeth I sympathise with you for obvious reasons. It is very frustrating when you see all the detractors getting their posts through,while us Jews and lovers of Israel/Israelis do not have the same pleasure to see our responses put out.I feel for you because when this happens I just leave in disgust. I could give you a hint/suggestion,but then Haaretz will see it,and where will I,or you be? If only we had a telephone to converse privately and then inform each other,it would be a boon for sure. Hey!why not I'll tell you.When you put your complaint,put the said response at the same time,it may work--you'll never know.By the way the talkback operators go slow after 8 p.m Israeli time(zone).And then it is operated by remote control(I am assuming)but I think I am right.Give it a try and see what transpires. Wonder if this post of mine will surface he he he?Best of luck............

axel historically it did not take money for the germans to show their evil hatred and persecution of the jews.

axel remember it was you who are the evil ones.the killings were your deeds alone.

you have some value axel in being a show piece.there are many jews who still look to europe and long for it.you axel are the perfect antidote.you will show them with a vengeance that nothing has changed apart from the diplomatic rhetoric of the state of germany.the people of germany are the same as ever they were.

as we see axel keeps the flag flying for his nation.axel i promise you will not get a second chance to indulge your devilry.

we have the best air force in the world.if you ever get up to your old tricks you would get an answer rather quickly. as to your airforce i recently read that you lost hundreds of planes like the starfighter through pilot error. no axel you would find things have changed.there are no more victims here.

JEW HATERS....NICE "FRIENDS LIKE YOU WE DONT NEED" :DUTCH AND THE REST! SHAME SHAME ON YOUR HEADS. THIS IS NOT A SITE WORKTH POSTING ON SINCE YOU REPEATEDLY POST ANTISEMETIC VILE COMMENTARIES AND REFUSE TO POST REBUTTLES.

Probably germany is more tolerant to his muslims citizens than the netherland -)))). The stuff with the flowers is childish behave of some boys. We have although some problems, but I do not see a civil war in germany. We work in west germany that all three (muslim, christians, and jews) religious at least talk about the problems they have with each other. It's not easy but we will handle that. The bigest problem in germany is sachsen. Maybe the netherland want to buy it --)))

You really have to learn how to read. The numbers I cited are from 1952. Thus the value of the Marshall Plan in today's dollar would amount to 150 billion, at the very least. This calculation does not take into consideration the interests and productivity accrued. The 15 billion that the US paid to European countries represented about 10% of the GDP at that time. What Germany received under the plan, amounted to more than what was agreed upon in reperations, and certainly much more than what has accrued in interest and economic benefit over the years to Germany.

by an American with a dubious sense of timing. I heard the same from a coworkers who pretended to be firendly to me until his veneer come of (following my refusal to sign a petition by Canadian of Arab descent,to condemn the "killing" by IDF of Palestinian children.I offered to sign a letter to condemn all child,be it Israeli Jewish or arab child,or palestinian or lebanese or Tamil for that matter.This know activist originally from Egypt refused to broaden the range of children killed in ME conflict to include Jewish children.You may have heard the name of Ehab Lotayeff who is associated with the Canadian Islamic Congres).During one of lunch brakes,in the company we worked together for years a discussion turned about the rich and then to reach Jews.The Canadian Eguptian blared out spontaniously:Jews have been rich since they left Egypt 3000 years ago taking all the gold with them.No one in the launch room reacted and said:"I own banks from the money my ancestor left me"

I did not converse nor did I write anything about the Marshall Plan.You've got the wrong person.Go back and read sloooowly and carefuleeee! thanks

Long before you mentioned your nationality I knew that your more-than-ignorant statements are from a non-European and based on envy and malevolence. You begrudge us the peace and propsperity that Europe enjoys. You think that instead we should endure a lasting punishment. You should realize that you are from a marginal people with a marginal god.

You didn't murder 6.000.000 French.Therein lays the BIG DIFFERENCE OLD CHUM. As for my faith,genes etc,that you don't want to share. I THANK GOD WE DON'T SHARE IT WITH YOU. Try another method of killing more people if you so wish,BUT!IT AIN'T GOING TO BE US JEWS THANK THE LORD...

Finkelstein ... no! He is a son of Holocaust survivers and a decent man. Wolfowitz, Feith, Abrams, Wumser, Krauthammer, Sharon, Podhoretz, Horovitz, etc, etc ... yes! They are responsible for over a million Iraqis killed.

Tosefta has given you figures with a worthy reference so you might check the authenticity. Does it not suit? Your comment about the Marshall plan is off beam. The plan was as much as anything, about self interest by the US in terms of creating markets for their own corporations to exploit as well as insurance against a repeat of WW11. (which in large part was encouraged by the West's thirst for vengeance post WW1)

"The megalomaniac idea to grant the Euro a higher currency than the dollar." If I suppose correctly that with "currency" you mean "exchange rate": the only megalomaniac idea is your idea that exchange rates are "granted".

Peter, I agree--you shouldn't have to pay. Are the survivors of World War 11 paid? Of course, not. There comes a point when a people must put things behind them and move on. Yet what I feel Israeli officials are capitalizing on this victimhood for all it worth and it has become despicable. Especially, when their own crimes against humanity and the Palestinian people and their descendants are being ignored & indeed perpetuated in the Palestinian territories today. I find this despicable. This must all be confronted and acknowledged today by them and I find it sickening to hear them talk about their victimhood today in light of their shock-ing abuse and cruelty towards the Palestinian people today. See the following videos. Thanks, Dutch P.S. Not so nice facts about Israel: http://vids.myspace.com/index.cfm?fuseaction=vids.individual&videoid=2031994495 The Palestinian children prisoners of war : http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=FMb1Ye3qpWE Palestinian children under attack from Israel i Army at the border: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=OLJzCNPm0qQ A Palestinian girl cries for help: http://uk.youtube.com/watch?v=iqlQ_z6BEyU Realizing God's Dream for the Holy Land, Desmond Tutu http://www.boston.com/news/world/middleeast/articles/2007/10/26/realizing_gods_dream_for_the_holy_land/ Dutch

End of discussion....

I know that you are totally obsessed with us.

"axel we were misled into taking german money" I would not have expected anything else: if not being killed makes you a victim, then accepting money makes you a victim, too. The eternal victim, so to speak.

"therefore no forgetting EVER!" With your mindset, Germany and France had remained archenemies as in the past; instead we are friends. Whatever it is: your nationality, faith, race, or if it's in your genes - I am glad I do not share it.

for stolen treasure by Jews of Moses time ?

The economic crisis would be really worse with the mark and the gulden. For the trading the euro is the best. Especially for the flowers, tomatos and cheese from the netherland ---))) The problem we have today is the high inflation- rate. This high rate has the fundaments in the high energie prices and in the crisis from 2001 / 2002. The fed made a base rate about 1 %, with the hope to stabilize the economic. The money was so cheap that everybody leaned it and many people where not able to pay it back. The EZB did the same fault with there base rate. And as more money is on the market as higher is the inflation rate. And the next real estate crisis in europe will be happend in spain. And the EZB and Fed always do the same shit bring more money to the market. Alan Greenspann was warning in 2002 for that development. Nobody listening to him. Maybe he is to old.

Hi, you have a point that 60 years is of course different to 2000 years. And I would surely not have a problem in paying such a small amount in order to support the victims. The point is: I don't think that nations are responsible - its every single Person. In no way I wanted to make the crime smaller or less disgusting. But there ist a danger in these payments: Some people say: there is no business like shoa business. I do not think so, but it is seen this way by more and more people. And Responsibility for the future? That it never happens again? Yes! Everybody, not only the germans. friendly greetings.

England and France do have indeed problems with their colonial history, but how are Holland and Belgium related to problems with Islam? Or the Scandinavia countries? There is a reason to believe that very little of what is really happening in Western and North Europe appears in the media. For example: did you hear about a group of Moroccan boys who were playing football in Amsterdam with flowers who were put by a memorial monument on 5th May; the day Holland was liberated? The common Dutch people are fed up with them. The reactions on the Dutch Elsevier have sometimes a lot in common with the old fashion ‘Der Stürmer’. The up coming hatred to foreigners from out side of Europe can lead to severe problems even to civil wars.

If I was not a Jew? What is my nationality? I could be rude and say:Mind your own business.But I can tell you I am an Israeli Jew. Fed-up, why do you generalize ? I`m German and I also think it`s terrible that many Nazis were never help accountable. How can you say Germans still stand where they stood 1936 ?? What is yout nationality?(Alex) I say it to begin with because of the mentality of the Germans have not changed much(perhaps on the outside)But within their own community(where there ae no Jews present)I can assure you their deep rooted feelings are manifestly the same.Perhaps not yourself particularely,but many are still keeping in the shade. Tell me Alex,do you approve of the German/Iran business venture? The fact that Ahmed(the bad)wants to wipe Israel off the map,and your GOVt still carries on doing a nice old business by selling weapons that may be used against Israel. That is all I have to say to you sorry ... I call myself fed up,because I am FED-UP!!

Let Maimonides in his own words debunk your utopian view of Islamic treatment of Jews......"the Arabs have persecuted us severly, and passed baneful and discriminatory legislation against us...Never did a nation molest, degrade, debase, and hate us as much as they" or the ode of Abu Ishaq the Arab Muslim jurist stated it..."bring them down (Jews) to their place and return them to the most abject station. Let them roam around us in tatters covered with contempt, humiliation and scon. Let rummage amongst the dungheaps for a bit of filthy rag. To serve as a shroud... Do not consider killing them is treachery"....(translation) Because Jews have broken the "covenant of Umar" they have overstepped their station no compuntion would be out of place.. All Arab society is and always has been sharply divided along ethic and religious lines, with arabs at the top of the hieracry..(example Algeria Arabs above Berbers, Egypt Arabs above Coptics) .. the converts and very bottom the dhimmi Jews.

we are not really happy taking their money.so why do it.if jews in germany can prove their ownership to property then israel should help them reclaim their rights. the world sees us taking german money.no one is happy.the germans think they have paid for their despicable sins.

Shoshana They seem to think the EU is the be all and end all.More like "THE END ALL"with all the Eastern and backward countries trying hard to join,WHY?because they can get an easy ride at the back of the good Europeans which at present are having a hard time.To think someone here said that the EU will outlast Israel must be having delusions of grandeur.Just let him/her wait a little longer to see the upcoming result will be.It is already being felt in many countries that joined(I mean the wealthy ones)who are so disilllusioned they want to retract their membership.It is a travesty and as you pointed out,only for some lucky ones,but not for the multitude of the rest. By admitting countries of the third world it is a sure disaster in the making and has been for quite sometime.It is all a big joke and much fraud and(type of bakshish)goes on and the EU members are doing very well financially thank you very much.Idiotic for some here to accept it blindly...

Who is asking you to "forget"??? NOBODY is! You can remember as much as you want....

the Naqba for Jews and Arabs alike Then why do you stop half way? Samuel Landman: Great Britain, the Jews and Palestine (1936) http://www.itk.ntnu.no/ansatte/Andresen_Trond/kk-f/2005/0036.html The Hidden History of the Balfour Declaration http://www.wrmea.com/jews_for_justice/index.html ON THE ORIGINS OF THE BALFOUR DECLARATION http://desip.igc.org/OriginsOfBalfour.html Without Zionist's interference in order to get the Balfour declaration, America would not have entered WWI and Germany would have won the war. I don't know how the world would be today in this case but its a good guess that it would have spared us Hitler and the Holocaust - on the other side, maybe no state of Israel today either...

"But you are comparing something that happened over 2000 years ago,and not a sensible comparison" I am glad as well as surprised to hear that from a member of the nation which constantly claims that the consequent changes in population, faith, and government since their expulsion from Palestine 2000 years ago are absolutely irrelevant and do not invalidate their right to repossess what they regard as theirs, at the expense of the present population.

"Here we are really SICK of Jews with ever new ideas how to extract money from us." Seems like a sweeping generalisation and therefore just a little bit racist. ------------------------------------ You need to resort to philological sophism to make your "racist" point. But if you are looking for "sweeping generalisation" in this talkback, I am sure you can find quite a lot for the keywords "Germany" or "Germans"

OK HAARETZ CENSORS LETS SEE IF MY TWO POSTINGS GET PUT UP IN REBUTTLE AGAINST THE JEW HATERS HERE. I THROW DOWN THE GAUNTLET. NOW FOR YOU MORONS AND YOU KNOW WHO YOU ARE..IF YOU READ THE ARTICLE YOU WILL NOW HAVE TWO INSIGHTS, 1. IT IS EVERYJEWS RIGHT ON THIS PLANET TO GET BACK WHAT WAS STOLEN AND WE WILL DO IT ...SO SIT BACK AND WATCH. 1.25 BILLION OUT OF THE SWISS SH$T TO DATE. 2.THE AURGUEMENTS OF GREED ETC HAVE NO STANDING WHAT SO EVER WHEN PEOPLE RETRIEVE, SQUEEZE OUT THE GUTS OF COUNTRIES AND BANKS ETC WHAT WAS STOLEN FROM USSSSSSSSSSSSSSSS!!!!!!!!!!! 3.TAKE THIS TO THE BANK ALSO, I FOR ONE AS THE DAUGHTER OF A SURVIVOR WHO ALSO HAD EVERYTHING STOLEN WILL MAKE SURE THE BILLIONS OF $$$ COME BACK, DOWN TO THE LAST PENNY.....SQUEEZE SQUEEZE SQUEEEZEEEEEEE. 4. THE GERMANS WILL BE PAYING FO RTHEIR HISTORY AND THEIR DEEDS FOR MILLENIA TO COME. YOU CAN'T WASH THAT AMOUNT OF BLOOD OFF.... 5.AND MORE SQUEEEZINGGGGGGGGGGGGG:)

the Pals...it is a tosy turvy world that has the Jews acting like aggressors while playing the victim card....let us hope that this new generation of German ubermen can shed this sh*t off their backs like they did in the early 1930s where the international bankers were squeezing the life off the German plight...and then they cried oy vey oy vey why am I always treated so bad! then the pressures lifts and they are amazing right back add it again, this time though they think they have the safety of Israel to commit their crimes from. Avarice my friends is a disgusting human feature.

harzion Your last centence is the right one,and we still maintain as you say:no amount of money my brethren have taken will erase a single thing.the crimes remain deep in your souls. And will remain till eternity..How very true. We lost them and many more the "unaccountable ones I have already mentioned in other posts. They seem to think just 60 years is sufficient time to forget? The dead will not rise again,therefore no forgetting EVER!

Shoshana You opened another chapter of our history. Precisely on the subject of the Prophet Muhamed who tortured and killed the Jews of Medina and confiscated their property and took our women,killed our children.The Muslims and the Christians have always been the enemies of the Jews.It began with the "Inquisition",but then the Muslims continued... As you mention the chapter of our people who came to our land in the 1900 to clear the desert and build a country out of nothing.It wasn't an easy job,but they managed and did it by the sweat of their brow.(here I am going even further than yourself Shoshana). Nobody in our place have thought the land of Israel as wonderful as some people think.I hear from some our people lamenting that perhaps Moses our Law Giver with his speech impediment mistook the name and perhaps he would have meant somewhere else more wonderful(this is an anecdotal by our Israelis who say with humour)Nevertheless it sounds a bit like it is in reality. We are all Zionists and they should remember that it was written in our Holy Bible and remains true today.When some people try to denigrating us by saying:There goes the Zionists.How funny when they should know the meaning of what Haaretz is for all?which in translation means ?Land of Israel?.. We have to try to educate the uneducated. They have much to learn and are biased by one or two evil Jews who?s writers try to confuse the world,but at the end they are caught out with their lies..

Indeed the EEG had brought peace and prosperity to Europe. The EU could have the same function if the highest echelon of Eur. leadership was wiser. The whole process can be defined as a slow knock out. a) It was not wise to introduce the Euro few months after 9/11 when a economic crisis stood by the door. b) The megalomaniac idea to grant the Euro a higher currency than the dollar. c) Letting 8 very poor East European at once (2004) without taking risks in account d) Letting Romania and Bulgaria to join the EU, despite the fact they are corrupt and primitive. US and Israel gain no benefit of the collapse of the EU. As for neighbors in the MO you have to know that people there worshipping hate. It lies in their mentality. The expression Saturday the Jews Sunday the Messians (Christians) stand for itself. In Israel they always say: we have no common borders with Sweden, we have to deal with Arabs.

Thanks for your clear understanding of Germanies moral obligation as a nation to help at least in small way to alleviate poverty of the Jews who went through WWII,survived but some have financila difficulties. That is only moraly proper way to help. I myself went through it. Never asked for any reparation although I could have. Regarding your question:"..But when Israel ask for a liitle more money to help Holocaust survivors many people in thsi forum get angry " Answer: this forum is a free for all blog,where the regular Jew bashing and Israel bashing brigade takes the opportunity to spit out their venom against the "Jew" be it Israeli or outside Israel. They hide behind a shield of "so called legitimate critic of Israel".Cynical tactics emp;oyed by such "experts on Jews:as Natallie Durson,ClickFool(Fool is a predominant part of his pen name),Dutch the rabid antisemite whose thoughts would fit well on the pages the Volkischer Beobacher,the Nazi journalistic propaganda paper!

I have just read your post #274 I will no longer converse with you since not only are you consistently wrong in all matters of fact and past events and realities; your lowering yourself to vitriol and spite is vile and offensive. your ignorance is distasteful.

Shoshana, you are mistaken, I never wrote the jews came from the mediterranean; on the very contrary I did not. I did say, after confirming judaism's eternal link to the holy land, that 'zionism came to the holy land from the mediterranean not jerusalem' - you can go back and check my post. I never said Israel was related to greeks or ROmans in so much as that they occupied the holy land and it was passed from one occupier to another till it fell to the arabs The cities of Akka, Haifa, Yaffa, Ram Allah, and of course jerusalem; these were cities fought over in the crusades.. alot more than a few bedouin. Mark Twain wrote in an era when occidentals were sick with perceptions of the 'world as exhibition' A large chunk of the inhabitants were jews converted to christianity and another large chunk were christians and jews converted to islam, the rest were indigenous jews or muslims and christians from arabia, syria, egypt, the caucuses, albania etc this went on for centuries, yes.

The time we had the EEG, was a happy time. Europe was safe, we had our Gulden and the DM was strong. Problems had started the time the Schengen agreement was signed. The worse came with the treaty of Maastricht in 1993 (founding of the EU). Two Dutch Prime Ministers had used severe lies to misleading the people. The first one was Lubbers (‘82 –‘94) who decided to pay more than others in order to increase his chances of having a top function in the EU. His successor Kok (‘94 – ‘02) was a villain. His government had deliberately lied about the Euro. The government Kok did not allow a referendum despite the fact it was illegal (The DNB is of all citizens of the Netherlands. They have right to know what is done with their money). The 2nd of January 2002 was a bad day to all of us. Prices had increased in a range of 60 – 120%. The Euro had brought a lot of poverty and ruined our economy; except of the happy few who can gain profit of the course difference between the Euro and the US $. The disaster of allowing 10 East European countries to join the EU is an issue of itself.

I have.

Buhuu the islamic ghost reached europe. And what is the real English man/ woman ?. Its realy funny what you wrote Hahah. The problem of the english and the french is there colonial history. Surely there are some grazy islamic fundamentalist in europe. I'm much more afraid about the social difficulties and about the political difference especially in the question about the relation to russia in europe.

Harzion, until this day Germany has not given back what has been stolen from the Jewish people, even so far as in North Africa, where German soldiers surrounded the Jewish Communities and asked for kilos of gold, otherwise community members would be killed. This scenario was repeated all over Europe and deep inside Russia. Jews have a right to claim their property back. The babies that have been gassed will not come back nor will the memory of this nightmare fade away. It is shocking to learn that the perpetrators of all this in their vast majority have never stood trial and will go away with it unpunished. But can you stand the fact, with all the responsibility for the memory of the slaughtered, to let the butchers go away with the stolen property too?

You both think: " You are right,the EU will collapse sooner than later under the present situation.It is a matter of time.The truth will have to be said and remind some here of facts are unfolding..." ................... ...and during you sit and wait I and many others will rather watch the downfall of the american empire and the demographic changes of a jewish Israel to an arabic one. Actually following facts and stats both events are much more likely to happen sooner than the destruction of the most successful organization on european ground ever. Have a good day! :)

I mean: 1945! Even my father was a little child then! It is like blaming the Italiens because the romans killed Jesus. absurd.(Peter). But you are comparing something that happened over 2000 years ago,and not a sensible comparison.That being what Germany did merely 60 years ago which is a huge difference. If you feel you are being hurt and not willing to part with your taxes(which would amount to a few cents anyway)then go and complain to you?re the bastards(your word not mine)who carried out the monstrous atrocities,and not us the Jews who were murdered in their millions upon millions and MORE THAN THAT,I SAY BECAUSE OF THE MILLIONS OF LOST GENERATIONS WHICH WOULD HAVE MADE OUR NATION NOW OVER 50.000.000 Instead just barely 12 million world wide. Think about it ?

4) You write: after the Arab conquest the large percentage of Jews who became Muslims. The reason they had been converted is that they were forced too; like all the others in the area. Mohammed your prophet was not better than the Inquisitions in Spain or Atilla the Hun . As a matter of fact Muslims were always enemies of the Jews and Christians. The reason they are allowed to marry women out of other communities has only one point: increasing the possibility to use/rape women of other nations. Mohammed was on this issue an expert. 5) The Zionists had not come to Palestine for its wonderful climate or outstanding economic possibilities. They came to this worse part of the world because it was their ancient home. They were refugees of the pogroms in Eastern Europe and had no where else to go. This is also the story of my grandparents (father) came there in 1919 as youngsters. .

Shoshana Indeed all your wrote bears witness to what is happening in the European countries. If they do not stop it they will slowly but surely disappear and will be taken over by the Islamists and begin to live under sharia law. It isn't only about the Muslims,but also the populace is amazed at the numbers of illigal immigrants taking over their jobs and accommodations as well.In the UK it has become a scandal,whereby the real Enlish man/woman going to appeal for a house to find they are granting it to the foreigners instead of the true people who faught the wars to save the their country from the Nazis. You are right,the EU will collapse sooner than later under the present situation.It is a matter of time.The truth will have to be said and remind some here of facts are unfolding...

You write The Jews came from the mediterranean not from Jerusalem. Since when we are related to the Greek and Romans? Unfortunately this is not true. The old Greek and Romans were developed and sophisticated folks. We are of origin a desert folk like you are and we share the same ancient father Abraham; whom my old uncle Frits used to refer as psychopath (for wanting to kill his both sons). 2) The Jews had never left the area even for one generation. There were always Jews in Palestine. 3) Mark Twain’s book ‘Travels to the Holy Land’ describes the country Palestine as a worst Third World country . It was practically an empty desert with swampy coast area and a lot of Malaria. There were very few dwellings like Jaffa Ramla etc. How could the so called Palestinians live there for centuries? Where? Bedouin tribes came temporarily with their herds from the West Bank & Jordan to graze. Is that what you call living for centuries?

Sorry, Peter, you are wrong. You personally have nothing to do with the holocaust, neither have i, not even my forefathers and definitly not my child. But as a German I find it important to stand to the history of ones country. A history cannot be divided in good or bad. And as a human being it disqulifies you to say this is all long time back, like the Romans. It is not. I was as a German with an israeli school from Nahalal in Auschwitz and I can only advise you and all the others, who think its medival history to go there with kids, whose grandmothers as children were in Birkenau. I feel not guilty for the holocaust, but I feel responsible for the future and I pray israeli and german kids will get together and learn from each other. I have started exchanges like this and they are wonderful. I as a German feel that I do have a responsibility. And I gain from that for my own life. I dont want to be someone who cares for nothing. I do care.

Hello Shoshana, I don't know why you think that I'm optimistic about European intergration or why I'd even be a fan of the EU. I've stayed in France two years and I know well that anti-German ressentments are alive. Still, I do think that some of these ressentments are not unjustified. It is or was a problem for me personally when I fell in love with a French: What a shame to call a German one's friend! I'd think that anti-German feelings among French are even worse than among Jews. With the Ashkenazim we shared some history and might have cultural traits in common for example, while in the centuries after Charlemagne France and Germany have mostly been competitors in Europe. I know we're not popular, but I cannot really take it amiss. I'm working hard to improve my image, isn't that obvious?

"Here we are really SICK of Jews with ever new ideas how to extract money from us." Seems like a sweeping generalisation and therefore just a little bit racist.Wouldn't it be better to say "those jews who...", unless your intention is to generalise and be racist. Anyway as I say, plenty of jews i know never made any claims. Would you have been so vocal in backing up their claims, had they made them, years back?

It is not your guilt thats true. But it has something to do with moralic decency. I'm although not willing to pay to some american or israelis advocates but I'm willing to pay for the survivor of the shoa. If you have no decency. I explain it in a juridical way. If your son hurt somebody intentionally you have to pay to his mistake. It's pretty easy

The Norwegian Aftenposten had published today an article about a controversial writer I. Hagen who describes the prophet Mohammed as a cruel warlord. The article is already responsible for unrest in Norway. See link (in English) http://www.aftenposten.no/english/local/article2093629.ece The same newspapers had published few days ago an article about the threat received from Muslim extremists in Denmark. They had threatened to start massive attack on the Danes if Pia Kjaersgaard and her DF party (Danish Folk Party) would make use of the Mohammed cartoons for their election campaign.

we dishonoured ourselves by so doing.in my eyes the stain on you will never ever go away.no amount of money my brethren have taken will erase a single thing.the crimes remain deep in your souls.

Should the USA citizens ask for reparations from Israel for the unnecessary war of choice in Iraq, a war pushed by the named Zionists, and others. Was the long delayed reparations for the deliberate attack on the USS Liberty enough???

Is this a joke.... Of course I'll be labeled an Anti-samite or Israel basher for this but don't you people think 64 BILLION Euros about covers it. (http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,515984,00.html) Stop blaming Germany for the theft and corruption of Israels compensation business (racket). If there are Surivors (and there are VERY few left) that are starving it is because the Israeli government and the WJC are robbing them blind. God bless those survivors and I pray that they get every penny that they deserve (not that it will ever make up for the hell that they went through ) but NOT from Germany. enough already!

I was born 20 Years after WW II. My Children are born near the new Milenia! What is my and their guilt? Why should there be any payments from my taxes for things that happened so long ago? I mean: 1945! Even my father was a little child then! It is like blaming the Italiens because the romans killed Jesus. absurd. If you can still find some of the bastards who did it: take them to prison for the rest of their shitty Nazi life. Take all the money they have. But why hold on to the innocent who support Israel in any other way? Can somebody explain? It feels not fair to me.

As Dutch person you pay netto the highest per capita contribution to the European Union. You pay even more than Germans do. Did you know that ? If you think the EU will collaps why do you invest all this money into it ?

Jonathan S about he German finance minister: "Mr. Steinbrueck in known in Germany for his arrogance and for being a born loser." The truth: The monthly popularity poll of German politicians (zdf politbarometer) rates Steinbrueck as the tird most popular, topped only by Chancellor Merkel and foreign minister Steinmeier.

A guy from holland is for us germans still a cheese head. But I like the humor of the guys from netherland. The tsunamis stuff is really funny Hahaha Greetings to the netherland

It's disgraceful how Israeli officials are still trying to bleed money out of Germany. They ought to own up to their own crimes against the Palestinian people and pay those whom they have kept from their land for the last 60 years or whose house they have demolished. Dutch

You said: "This is not real brotherhood and to my opinion the EU will collapse in due course." ................. And people are claiming that since the funding of the EU...and that was shortly after WWII with much more intense feelings still involved! And they WERE wrong and ARE still wrong! Of course Germans will stay Germans, French will be french, Poles will stay Poles...that was not the point! But Europe is today a much more peaceful place...it's growing together with borders or visas becoming obsolete... It's a flowing process...but it's already in motion for decades and no stoppin in sight. (I can understand the wish for Americans or Israelis to wish to see it fail but I fear you will wait for a long time...) Maybe you should really take the EU as example how to solve your problems with your neighbours in the ME?

Fed-up, why do you generalize ? I'm German and I also think it's terrible that many Nazis were never help accountable. How can you say Germans still stand where they stood 1936 ?? What is yout nationality ?

Jonathan I agree to you. I think the property of rich families who made huge profits by exploiting slave laborers should be confiscated. Also the pensions to former SS henchmen should be cut to 0. Besides that a financial fine should be imposed on all former nazi party members who are still alive. And if they have property it should be confiscated as well. This money should then be given to Holocaust survivors and to Israel. This would be fair because then the people who are really resonsible must pay. Since the nazis registered everything it should be easy to find out which people were nazi party members. Why is our government not doing this ? Now is the time to act. If not many nazis will die without every being punished.

Fed-Up, you are being fed through the wrong opening. No wonder you are fed up. Germany paid a lot more that it received through the Marshall Plan, or in any other way. "By 1963, the German people had already paid out 20 billion marks, and by 1984 the total had risen to 70 billion. In late 1987 the West German parliament approved an additional 300 million marks in "restitution to the victims of National Socialist crimes." The Bonn government announced at that time the 80 billion marks had already been paid out and estimated that by the year 2020 the payoff would total 100 billion marks which, at recent exchange rates, would be the equivalent of $50 billion." - Mark Weber (Journal of Historical Review)

31 October 2005 in Arhus Denmark, young Muslims had shouted: This country belongs to us!. More information.(Shoshana T). Shoshana I didn?t have to go to the ?free republic website ?to get the information,because that is all the Muslims living in the European countries think they can take over the said country which gave then shelter,and then turn against them by wanting to alter the the way of life of the REAL indigenous peoples to their way of life which means turning the clock backwards to the 7th century.PATHETIC AND UNACCEPTABLE AND IT MUST BE FOUGHT WITHOUT FURTHER ENDANGERING THE TRUE EUROPEANS WHO HAVE LIVED THERE ALL THEIR LIFE FOR THOUSANDS OF YEARS.... You have proven yet again not only the mentality but their false assumptions of what the Arabs/Miuslims seem to want,and will not achieve ever... I commend your post....

Armenia considers Morgenthal a hero. He saved hundreds of thousands of Christian Armenians; and there is a statute of him in Armenia. Re: above, an Armenian read a book re: Morganthal who spoke to Talaat Pasha, who claimed that the dead Armenians could not claim their life insurance policies; and therefore the money would go to the state. He told Morganthal to give him the list of names of the dead which M. would not do.In 2005, Armenians made the claim against the insurance companies and received a settlement, after reading this book and what M. said. M. said T.Pasha meant to kill them all.Again, modern Turks are not guilty of his crime;and I think Turkey does not want to make reparations.Armenia could concentrate on having Turkey open the borders;and instead of passing genocide bills, this is one alternative action.Reparations does include getting back stolen art work, etc.In Chicago there was a fight for stolen art work by the Nazis that belonged to a Jewish family.

Yes...it may be bad news that once bitter enemies might come to an agreement favourable for all sides ...but so it happened. Every EU-member agreed to the free movement law of all EU-citizens and hence to the "Right of Return"! No EU-Citizen can and will be hindered to live where he wants...and if it is in the lands of his ancestors he can do so! That is a fact! Sure...a far cry from the violent, hateful wilderness the ME is today but hey...we Europeans did it in the end! Maybe you can do it too...one day?

You both see the circumstances in the EU today too optimistic. This is not true that old enmities had already vanished. A German in Holland is still a Mof, in France Bosch and the Danes have an ugly nick name of their own which I have unfortunately forgot. In Holland they speak now about a tsunami of East Europeans who are coming to benefit social securities and deploy criminal activities. The same feelings are shared by people in Britain, Ireland and Scandinavia. This is not real brotherhood and to my opinion the EU will collapse in due course.

And who pays the relatives of the soldier killed in action in the second world war. The young russian and german soldiers died because of a brainless ideology in stalingrad leningrad and moskow. The german state pays ss veterans. But nobody in germany has the courage say that the ss and the nazis where the greatest war criminals against other nation and against there own nation. Watch what the nazis did with their own soldiers in stalingrad. Cannon fodder for the Nazis and ss personal Egoismen ("Führers birthday present"). Many fighting troop wehrmacht officers know at the winter of 1941 that this russian war was loosed I know that from from a reliable source

During the first Gulf War Holocaust survivors in Israel and their relatives, in fact the whole country, were sitting with gas masks on in sealed rooms, waiting for the poisonous gas delivered by Germany to Saddam Hussein, because no one could know if he would have the balls to deliver it. When it became known that Germany had extended the range of the Iraqi missiles so that they could reach Israel, German FM Genscher rushed to Israel after the first missiles hit Tel Aviv, took out his checkbook and offered 3 subs free of charge, thereby buying the silence of Israel. This time for Germany, after having delivered to Iran the technology for a nuclear bomb, boosting the mullah regime heavily through subsidized trade for many years and after destroying the alliance of the West regarding sanctions, the price could be much higher, so that a modest sum for the survivors of the German inferno should be possible, enabling them to make a modest living and to die in dignity.

Greetings.

The people here in the U.S. don't speak out openly about these matters bacause they are concerned with the consequences.

Perhaps you are right. As Ahmadinejad has said, if the Germans are responsible for the Holocaust, they should pay for it. As the Palestinians consider themselves to be the victims of what Nazi Germany did in Europe and Northern Africa, the Palestinian should appeal to the German government for compensations. The many millions that were paid until now financing terror and finding the way to private Swiss bank accounts are surely not enough. Perhaps the Palestinian leadership should sue Germany too, for having infiltrated their minds with Nazi ideology, beginning during the visits of the Palestinian leader, the Great Mufti, in Berlin and the nice meetings with Adolf Hitler and not ending with the actual Hamas charter, which is clearly full of Nazi ideology. It would be good to go back to the REAL roots of the Naqba for Jews and Arabs alike.

As German public TV NDR reported, billions of Euros from German taxpayers are being paid to Nazi war criminals and are called victim pensions. German military historian Gerhard Schreiber estimated the number of war criminals receiving these extra payments from the German government at 50,000. Among the recipients is for instance a man, found guilty by a German Federal Court to have killed 15 unarmed women and children in Caiazzo near Naples in Italy in October 1943.(Jonathan). Yes Jonathan. I touched on this part of your response,but Haaretz failed to put it out. Among my other relevant posts yesterday. Germany is fiddling with the figures and participating on more double standards as you point out. My honest impression is Germans in general show one face to the outside world , while among themselves still are what they were during the ?killing fields? in 1936?

"That`s why the situation with our older refugees from the war is not so bitter and desperate anymore...that`s why people can make real peace with each other...starting a new, better future!" I'm less optimistic than you are. Even though in 2005 I gave my protest vote to those retirees, it was rather because they were against a centralised Germany and against high level capitalism, that I said: ok you can get my vote this time, but it was clearly not because they rejected the Benesh-decrees. I don't know why after two world wars and a genocide, people still think that Germans simply have "the right" to go here or there, that Germans do not fear their own culture, that we still don't believe we can be wrong although we've often been, and that according to this not we, but those who refuse us would be wrong. Strangely, here's often being talked about lessons from history for the Jews. If there's a lesson Germans could have learned, then it's to doubt about the benignity of our culture

Germany has on three occasions after a lost war renounced FOREVER the territories that were once German in the East. It was done by former East Germany, than by former West Germany and finally by new Greater Germany. However, there are Germans, some organized in a Prussian fund, who will try by court rulings to get properties in Poland back which no longer belongs to them. If they should succeed, a giant wave of reparation claims from Poland and perhaps other countries will follow. The city of Warsaw alone has announced to sue Germany over 40 billion Euros for the damage Germany has done. The relations between Poland and Germany are on an all time low since 1990, especially because Poland fears German revanchism and the German entente with Kremlin Tzar Wladimir, whom the ill-fated Chancellor Schroeder called a flawless democrat.

I really feel sorry for JonathanS and his rants. His suggesting that the members of the Waffen-SS should be denied pensions is ludicrous. They fought in all major battles - with great distinction, I might add - and he states that they are not entitled to a pension because their "victims" don't get one? Their victims have been getting money from the German government since 1952! The problem here is that every day lawyers come up with new "victims." P.S. There were approx. 900.000 members of the Waffen-SS - who were not involved in the killing of homosexuals, jews and gypsies. But there were approx. 20.000 of the regular SS that did commit heinous crimes during the WWII.

Ms.Kohn Your research is an admirable one and I thank you. Here is yours.Please forgive the cut/and paste. It is odd that no one questions the approximately 15,000,000,000 paid out by the Marshall Plan to help post-war Europe, of which 1,500,000,000 was paid to Germany, the original perpetrator of crimes against humanity and the genocide against the Jewish people.(Ms.Kohn) I, in my simple way said what Germany has conributed is a mere drop in the large ocean. What we really need is to verify and see all the books tucked away in their vaults. I hear differing voices saying they have obliged us. My thoughts differ on this and would like to see the ?vaults? of the Swiss banks open for scrutiny and the monies and ?art treasures? returned to the rightful owners as well.They are simply ho humming about it and lying all the way to their banks as far as I understand.(I mention this as an aside)but still very relevant? I commend your post thank you Ms.Kohn

...or so it seems: http://www.ynetnews.com/articles/0,7340,L-3469765,00.html Quote: "...A German Treasury official responded Saturday to Israeli Minister Rafi Eitan's request that the 1952 reparations agreement between the countries be reopened by saying that "only a short while ago we allocated some 100 million euros (about $147 million) for those who were held in labor camps during the Holocaust. This was a one-time humanitarian gesture, and we have no plans to make any additional payments..." and: "...German officials denied Israeli reports that the matter would be discussed during Finance Minister Peer Steinbrueck's upcoming visit to the Jewish state..."

"the catholics dare to threaten the jews yet again." I did not see any threats in the article to which you refer. Or is this the first step in demanding compensation from the Catholic Church of St.Louis for the poor poor Jewish victims of catholic threats?

What I give away here as always are facts found out by German journalists and published on German public TV, respected newspapers or books but not so much known abroad. These hard facts are speaking for themselves, it is rarely necessary to make a comment. If you would like to forget about them, than you are part of the well-known German amnesia industry which since 1945 does not want to know what is not pleasing her. Fortunately, not all Germans are like you.

"this (sic) is strictly between Germany & Israel. It does not concern you one bit, all the way from Australia." Excuse me? All and everything that the zionist state does in their incessant trouble-making and the funding thereof is a concern for the entire planet. Your justification-and-rationalization cupboard must be entirely bare in that you would come to this thread with such a pathetic and fishwifely argument.

the Zionists are introducing a new bigger and better begging cup just like Finkelstein said in his book. All this pity potty stuff is nonsense. Give the money to the few remaining survivors over there and not the settlers. Germany shouldn't give you another dime to squander. Nobody but nobody outdo the Zionists when it comes to begging. They have perfected it to an art. It's really funny how many posters talk about the Pals being welfare recipients, what a laugh. Sniff it up and move on, the German ninny is or should be dry, but don't worry, the US ninny still flows dollars! What a disgrace. That's like demanding reparations from whites in the US today for the ills of slavery. Nobody ever said Zionists lacked chutzpah. Get a life.

It's obvious that you are very selective insofar as history is concerned. You "forgot" to mention that there was a deliberate campaign to expel Palestinians from what was to become Israel. This is a fact that you can read in Israeli history books - not the wild imagination from an "anti-semite" that needs to accept the zionist filtered version of "history." Ah, let's talk about $$$$$, shall we? Israel is responsible (according to the Fourth Geneva Convention) of the Palestinians' deplorable and inhumane condition they are forced to endure (because they cannot go back to their homes and properties.) This is a fact! But has Israel offered to compensate them for their misfortune? No! But Israel is first in line when it comes to demanding money from the Germans - for people that had - at best - only a tangentially relationship to the holocaust. So, money, money, money for your people but let's continue to screw the Palestinians because they don't even exist, right?

Axel is absolutely correct: "Of course, Germans have a right of residence in Poland and Czechia like in any other EU country. Exactly by this peaceful development in Europe problems like territorial claims and re-claims have become irrelevant." ------------------------ Every EU-citizen can decide where he wants to live, develop a business, buy land etc... That's why the situation with our older refugees from the war is not so bitter and desperate anymore...that's why people can make real peace with each other...starting a new, better future! Something Israel should think over...

"He is extremely unpopular even within his own party." Which is neatly proven by the fact that he was elected deputy chairman of the Social DEmocratic Party two weeks ago. The nickname of Jonathan S. is "Lies Unlimited"

1) Firstly what the Germany contributted is a drop in the vast ocean. 2)Where are the treasures which have not been returned? 3) All the 6 million who perished were not the only ones. 4)Just do the math,we have lost many generation to come by the murder of the BABES and by now we have been a NATION OF AT LEAST 40.MILLION. 5)Haaretz is being mean by not putting out the views of the Jewish respondents.Shame on them! Now be good enough and rectify your error Haaretz...

Any Nazi having "served" Germany is far better of as their victims. In Germany we got German victims as well living on the wrong side of life as you say. For example the widow of Freisler got a tremendous pension from the proper authorities of Munich (Versorgungsamt) arguing that Mr. Freisler would have made a career in post war Germany. How right they are. Here scoring 100%. The rest of nearly all your postings I forget about.

As for the African Americans and slivery sorry for being an ANALPHABET for I don`t have no heritage and legacy in the Jewish American community that makes me seek their history of the year 1600-1700 when slivery was widely spread, But I suppose none of the America Jewish community will kick it under the rug if you ask and inquire (it is not our way), the real question is for such a wide spread phenomenon as slivery (and acceptable by all at that period), how did the Jews treat their Slaves! I agree slivery today is something unimaginable, but should be put into retrospect! But as I said before I am an ANALPHABET on the American subject, for I am a simple Palestinian Jew!

Abe No Abe Mark Doesn`t Make a Good Point! For his post makes the word HOLOCOUST look like going to play on the marry-go-round! And Yes Abe Mark is exactly talking of the extent of what I wrote (or his lack of knowledge on the subject as some of the post here seem to imply)! As for the what was going on in 1948, I disagree with you, for one reason, and it is that the independence war of 1948 was forced on us the Israelis, it is a war that many would have said we had to loss, a nation that hasn`t been borne yet, attacked from within by it`s civil population (The So-Called Palestinians), and seven well equipped armies! So no I don`t see nothing horrible in our willing to defend ourselves, and not be slaughtered again! It is very nice of the Palestinians and the Arab world to START a WAR and then CRY O we lost land we lost this we lost that, and look what the Zionist people did to us! Continued #2

Abe No Abe Mark Doesn`t Make a Good Point! For his post makes the word HOLOCOUST look like going to play on the marry-go-round! And Yes Abe Mark is exactly talking of the extent of what I wrote (or his lack of knowledge on the subject as some of the post here seem to imply)! As for the what was going on in 1948, I disagree with you, for one reason, and it is that the independence war of 1948 was forced on us the Israelis, it is a war that many would have said we had to loss, a nation that hasn`t been borne yet, attacked from within by it`s civil population (The So-Called Palestinians), and seven well equipped armies! So no I don`t see nothing horrible in our willing to defend ourselves, and not be slaughtered again! It is very nice of the Palestinians and the Arab world to START a WAR and then CRY O we lost land we lost this we lost that, and look what the Zionist people did to us! Continued #2

It is well-known that the financial elites of post-war Germany are the same as those which financed Hitler into power and profited grossly from WWII and the Holocaust. A few days ago, it was revealed that the Quandt family made a fortune with slave labourers from the concentration camps. This family is considered to be the richest one in Germany and the main owner of many companies like BMW. For 60 years they denied to be involved and got away with it. Just a few days ago Haaretz reported about a party in Rechnitz of another rich German family, where 200 Jews were murdered to please the party guests. Surely, the little man in Germany will ask himself why he, with his modest means, has always to pay the bill, whereas those who profited the most could not only get away with it, but made huge profits.

...between Israel and Germany but Germany and the victims. Wasn't there a report lately on Haaretz that many of the holocaust victims leave Israel for Germany to make a better living there because the state of Israel obviously does not care for those poorest of the poor to the extent she should and for all got the money for? The heading of this article read as far as I remember "Holocaust starts at home". GENERAL NOTE: NEVER TRUST YOUR MONEY TO ANY STATE!!! In this case the German money should not be trusted to Israeli organizations or Israel herself. The deal should be one between the victims and say a German outpost in Israel caring for the victims directly. Would serve the victims far better and save a lot of German money which could be given as an extra to the victims. That's it. But since the victims are old now and helpless because organized only via public organizations who speak up mostly for themselves only......

Mr. Steinbrueck in known in Germany for his arrogance and for being a born loser. He is extremely unpopular even within his own party. But he could do something for the international standing of his country, if Germany would only take a small portion of the money that has been spent on victims pensions for former SS-men and war criminals for decades and give it to their victims. It would be nothing more but a symbolic gesture. Under pressure from the Wiesenthal Centre in the US, Germany has begun to cancel the first pensions for well-known war criminals which have been paid for a much too long period.

"The Germans have no right to return, even though Poland and the Czech Republic are members of the EU." Of course, Germans have a right of residence in Poland and Czechia like in any other EU country. Exactly by this peaceful development in Europe problems like territorial claims and re-claims have become irrelevant.

As German public TV NDR reported, billions of Euros from German taxpayers are being paid to Nazi war criminals and are called victim pensions. German military historian Gerhard Schreiber estimated the number of war criminals receiving these extra payments from the German government at 50,000. Among the recipients is for instance a man, found guilty by a German Federal Court to have killed 15 unarmed women and children in Caiazzo near Naples in Italy in October 1943. He was later slightly injured while escaping from an allied POW camp and suffers a mild handicap, but receives now an additional victim pension. In 1996 for instance, the equivalent of 6.5 billion Euros was paid for these kind of people. War criminals living abroad also receive these additional monthly victim payments from Germany, like the former Auschwitz lieutenant and author of the book The Auschwitz Lie. He is a well-known neo-Nazi leader and his book is the bible of the movement. mm

The trouble with the SPD - you mention Steinbrück - is that they're too clever for talking like their followers do. But even my grand father is not as dumb as these ones. If he calls someone "a Jew" with an ironic smile, then he means indeed that this person is greedy or a usurer. But in contrast to you he has understood that "White Jews are worse than black ones!". That is also my opinion: If Jews are succesfull I have the prejudice (which may individually be more or less justified) that they have succeeded to sell something which is usefull for the customers, while German carreerists have at best the ethics to produce well elaborated goods, in worse cases they just extort money by misinformation of customers, and in their predominant philosophy, economy doesn't have to be useful for people, but for the ability to buy a villa and to finally separate from the suffering and stinking population to which they once also belonged, that they now serve, then kid and in a final stage control

It is well-known that Holocaust survivors in Eastern Europe and the former Soviet Union did not receive German pensions, but their tormentors do. Believe it or not, the German government provides generous monthly pensions to Nazi war veterans, whose injuries or even mild and chronic ailments qualify them for war victims pensions. As Jewish organizations in the US have found out, Germany pays over 3.300 pensions to veterans of the military machinery of the Third Reich in the US alone. It would be interesting to know if they entered the US legally. Many Waffen-SS veterans in the Baltic States and elsewhere in Eastern Europe are now receiving such pensions from Germany, while their victims are not. Surely these victims, now old and in poor health, deserve to finish their lives in dignity and a little bit of comfort.

then THEY should PAY for their healthcare, etc. - none of these people would be in Israel if it weren't for the Holocaust and THAT is why Germany agreed to fund their social security and health care. NOW that they're not getting adequate care, the Germans should look into it - they took responsibility for this population (Holocaust survivors) LONG AGO!

Zionism came from the mediterranean not from Jerusalem. Palestine and the lands of Israel were in Arab hands for centuries upon centuries not because they had evicted the jewish nation; but they had taken it from those who took it from those who took it etc etc from those who took it from the Romans and another dimension, after the arab conquest the large percentage of jews who became muslim and the large percentage of jews who over the centuries had become christian of which a large percentage became muslim. so how can you compare the germans to this? Zionism, as much as it has ideals etc; very much arrived within the time fabric of a sedentary indigenous society with a rich history and string of sister cities in a land it's inhabitants believed was holy and special even by their neighbors to the east and west: north and south. zionism came to this; and destroyed it. It doesn't matter how beautiful or ugly what aionism replaced it with; the point is, it destroyed it