Israel prepares to fight war crimes trials after Goldstone Gaza report

That what Bibi wants the world communities do.

"Self-defense does not include the right to indiscriminately bomb schools and hospitals." I failed to see your condemnation of the Hamas rockets on ISRAELI schools and hospitals, or its somehow ok if its called "resistance". Hypocrite.

'"No obligation or responsibility contained herein applies to the State of Israel unless said state agrees in any particular set of circumstances." ' Well, that clause is understood. It's just considered preferable to leave it unwritten.

...as long as it doesn't it expose an idf cover-up". hmmm? why bother?

It is quite obvious from history that Jews are looked upon as pariahs. I know in my heart that we are loving people who have placed a great emphasis on laws, education, science and the arts. As we were being exterminated, the World was joyous. I know I'm speaking in generalities, but generalities are still realities. Don't fight the enemy on their terms or territory. Let the UN put the Goldstone report where it belongs. Dialogue hasn't accomplished anything. We are being placed into a corner, geopolitically and in the public opinion arena. If the Goyum want to see the Jews destroyed and replaced by an Islamic world, then they will get what they deserve. It is already happening. Stop putting off the inevitable.

Israel is like that old joke about the man caught in bed, by his wife with his mistress who says, "Who ya going to believe? Me or your lying eyes."

if israel succeeds in changing the rules of war, then other countries will claim what israel will be claiming, this WILL set a precedence for others to attack at a whim under the guise of fighting terrorism, dangerous, very very dangerous, considering others will use the same excuse against israel itself, like one that will get a nuke.

Instead of taking care of your own country's problems, for instance: 65,000 people emmigrating from Ireland this year, what are they running away from, the mice fleeing from the sinking ship? But you are busy of course with other people's problems, running away from your own, isn't it convenient?

"We need to keep punching a hole in this lie that is spreading with the help of the Goldstone report," Netanyahu was quoted as saying in the statement. Of the forty-seven nations on the UNHRC, governments representing three billion people, including all the BRIC nations, voted in support of the Goldstone Report, compared to less than four hundred million against. That should tell you something--if you were willing to listen.

Here are Goldstone's words that will lead to war crimes trials for both Fatah and Hamas leaders: "From the facts available, the Mission finds that the rocket and mortars attacks, launched by Palestinian armed groups in Gaza, have caused terror in the affected communities of southern Israel and in Israel as a whole. Furthermore, it is the Mission's view that the mortars and rockets are uncontrolled and uncontrollable, respectively. This indicates the commission of an indiscriminate attack on the civilian population of southern Israel, a war crime, and may amount to crimes against humanity." Goldstone is very clear. Kassams are war crimes that have been going on since 2001. Palestinians killing Israeli civilians is a war crime, and Fatah and/or Hamas and other groups have been doing that for not just years, but decades. Goldstone is the UN, and the words are spoken: It's time to put the Palestinian leadership on trial for war crimes. Locking them up may finally allow peace.

eanere a few years ago ,how did they threatened La France? Why was there no investigation of death of more than a 100 unarmed demonstrators shot directly at by your Legionists? Answer first these questions before starting your "Why Israel" hypocrisy .

What if they call Col Kemp who told the UNCR the opositte of the Goldstone/Hamas fairy tale?

Israel's gov't. would do the Israeli people it represents a tremendous service by establishing a blue ribbon Commission of Inquiry comprised of its most esteemed and respected members of the judiciary. If war crimes were committed then in a country of laws, and not of men, this should not be a problem at all. Israel would then be in a much better moral position to demand updating the laws of warfare to take into account the problems of assymetrical warfare.

It is very clever of you to use my name but don't you have your own?

and france sudan iran turkey pakistan spain etc etc when there is law you can pick on israel until then youre a crap artist ice !

"Netanyahu...also instructed government officials to draft proposals for changing international laws of war." That's right. By all means, don't change your behavior, change the rules! Don't tear down the wall, use your enormous political clout to persuade the pope not to give a speech in front of it. Don't end your occupation, get Congress to pressure the White House to use its Security Council veto or else!

He doesn't need to change any law.Zionits are always above all internaional laws!Goldstone is a jewish self hater.

Fred, there is none more disturbed by the deaths of the foreign language and intercept specialists lost when that torpedo hit the Liberty. The secrecy of both nations disturbed me. A few years back the NSA released redacted transcripts of the Israeli pilots conducting the attack. It is not hard to see why both nations were secretive. The Liberty was a goat f. . . er, rope, from beginning to end. My suspicions that the attack might have been a deliberate act have been entirely dispelled. I will say that the immensity of the screw up was worse than the public was allowed to know at the time. So was the bungling by the US Navy and NSA. The investigations of the Liberty were one of those cases where the word [SECRET] was a euphemism for 'embarrassing.'

The vote of the UNHRC and GA are forgone conclusions on this just as they are on every other matter concerning Israel. However, such bodies are political, and they need not be rigorous in the decisions they arrive at, they simply need the votes. And the votes they count on are from countries even less committed to human rights for Israelis than the commentors on this forum, none of whom seem to recognize the irony in seeking support for such resolutions from countires like Sudan. The ICC, however, will be forced to make a legal argument and in doing so, it will be forced to discuss ways that countires could otherwise defend themselves against terrorist outfits who turn their civilian neighborhoods into battlefields for the purpose of producing civilian casualties, and it will need to come to terms with the way it will have become their tool. Those arguments will founder on the shoals of reality.

International laws drafted decades ago that govern war really dont apply to today's world... new drafts are needed

How much lower can it get?

The Goldstone report hit the back pages in small print at worst. Even the LA Times (no friend of Israel) had little printed and the editorial staff wanted Israel to investigate itself but blamed hamas for the fighting. Several days later, no press at all. Israel should ignore Goldstone, and he will slowly go away-rightfully so.

Does this mean those in charcge of killing in Africa will also be questioned. What about the Pal daddies ran so fast they lleft their families.The families became human shields. Daddies allowed ammunition to be stored in hospitals. schools and urban areas. How about bring daddy up on chsrges.

http://www.nytimes.com/2009/10/20/opinion/20bernstein.html?_r=1

Paying the "internal" costs might actually increase the low standing and credibility of Israel among tzhe international community. Of course if you find the price is too high..

When the report reaches the UN, Netanyahu will say to the settlers that he needs to freeze the settlements to get a US veto - they can't blame him. Between now and then, he will watch his rivals Barak and Livni feel the heat of the guillotine. Livni will soon be more than willing to join the government, on Netanyahu's terms, even those which will be quite disastrous for her.

Does bibi hereby admit that Israel broke the old rules? It will be interesting to see the new proposals.

http://www.unwatch.org/site/c.bdKKISNqEmG/b.5537773/k.73CE/Dramatic_UN_Testimony.htm Delivered by Colonel Richard Kemp UN Human Rights Council 12th Special Session, 16 October 2009 Debate on Goldstone Report Version Française En Español En Italiano Thank you, Mr. President. I am the former commander of the British forces in Afghanistan. I served with NATO and the United Nations; commanded troops in Northern Ireland, Bosnia and Macedonia; and participated in the Gulf War. I spent considerable time in Iraq since the 2003 invasion, and worked on international terrorism for the UK Government?s Joint Intelligence Committee. Mr. President, based on my knowledge and experience, I can say this: During Operation Cast Lead, the Israeli Defence Forces did more to safeguard the rights of civilians in a combat zone than any other army in the history of warfare. Israel did so while facing an enemy that deliberately positioned its military capability behind the human shield of the civilian population. Hamas, like Hizballah, are expert at driving the media agenda. Both will always have people ready to give interviews condemning Israeli forces for war crimes. They are adept at staging and distorting incidents. The IDF faces a challenge that we British do not have to face to the same extent. It is the automatic, Pavlovian presumption by many in the international media, and international human rights groups, that the IDF are in the wrong, that they are abusing human rights. The truth is that the IDF took extraordinary measures to give Gaza civilians notice of targeted areas, dropping over 2 million leaflets, and making over 100,000 phone calls. Many missions that could have taken out Hamas military capability were aborted to prevent civilian casualties. During the conflict, the IDF allowed huge amounts of humanitarian aid into Gaza. To deliver aid virtually into your enemy's hands is, to the military tactician, normally quite unthinkable. But the IDF took on those

The kangaroo court has no jurisdiction ... + the US, Russia and China do not recognize it. " Zionist" Goldshtein is kidding his left wing pals.

"To amswer SDHD---Israel commits far more war crimes than anyone else" Only in cuckoo-land.

it was in near the conflict while the USA was publicly denying in the UN that it was there! False flag operations occur!

No need for a change of rules Mr Prime-minister: the rules don't apply to Israel anyway. Never have, never will: Your country is above the law.

It really is a simple matter. A one sentence addition to each and every one of the Geneva treaties in ink everyone can see. "No obligation or responsibility contained herein applies to the State of Israel unless said state agrees in any particular set of circumstances." This has always been the essence of the Netanyahu argument. It would just codify it for all to see.

"Israel prepares to fight war crimes trials" Fight the trials, not the war crimes. Israel at its historic low.

than anyone else---that is why that body finds it necessary to give Israel so much more attention. Terlling them to take a hike is not going to make the problem go away. Just cough up ypur war crimimals -=--as in Olmert/Barak/Livni/Hulutz and a few other unspeakable deviants and end the occupation and we will all go away and leave you alone---be very glad to do so. Who needs to hang around those who defend war crimes and those who perpetrate them. We do have a sense of taste and smell.

Israel investigate itself?? Come they had two investigations on the attack on the USS Liberty and they were both shams. There was so many holes it in that you could drive a mack truck through it. Like saying they asked the US embassy if there were any american ships in the area prior to the six day war in 1967. They never made the inquiry. Or the time they descripted what side of the ship the torpedo ships attacked the ship. Turned out their narrative had them attacking the wrong side of the ship that actually attacked. Any investigation Israel conducts on themselves that involves killing people other than Israelis would be a sham.At least we americans put our soldiers and marines on trial for war crimes.

Priceless, the ostrich discribes the situation exactly, great posts Esther.

"Given the range of activities Israel would need to make permissible, the list of changes would have to be impressive. In fact, I`m trying to think what would remain illegal. Eating the victims afterwards?" That would certainly remain illegal as it would be against the dietary laws....!

"draft proposals for changing international laws of war" Bibi is certainly taking a lot on himself these days... If the IDF are innocent there will be no need for any war crimes trials. The fact that Bibi is running so scared is the best proof that the Goldstone report contained accusations which had merit...

This is from the Wiki on Richard Goldstone: Goldstone "is a Zionist and loves Israel."[4] Goldstone himself, in a 2000 speech in Jerusalem, noted that "bringing war criminals to justice stems from the lessons of the Holocaust".[5] He is obviously a jurist of the highest integrity who would not allow for selective application of the rules of war such as the Geneva Convention. Why is it that Israel cannot accept that Richard Goldstone is trying to show a way forward to which takes the lessons learned from the holocaust into account. Instead of just coming with a gut response- please start thinking and study some of some of Goldstone`s writings which are cited at http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Richard_Goldstone

The State of Isreal which funds Hebrew University should cause "Judge" Goldstone to be removed as Truste of the University, given his one-sided report

'The Israeli leader also instructed his government to draft an initiative to change the laws of war to take into account the need to contend with "the expansion of terrorism in the world" ' Given the range of activities Israel would need to make permissible, the list of changes would have to be impressive. In fact, I'm trying to think what would remain illegal. Eating the victims afterwards?

I have full trust in an independent Israeli commission but IDF self-investigations are simply not credible as the past has shown. In a democratic system with division of powers and proper rule of law, the organs suspected of mis-conduct simply do not investigate themseves.

"If Israel has not committed any war crimes, if the IDF has a perfectly good conscience, then what do you have to fear? The more rage you demonstrate fighting the report, the more guilty you appear." When the body (which commissioned that report) attacks you more than it attacks anyone else -- to a ludicrously disproportionate level, it's not a matter of fear, it's a matter of telling it to take a hike and finding the best way to do so.

"And now the most priceless of all......Bibi says we must immediately find a strategy to change international laws relating to warfare..." And you don't think so? Tell us where the Geneva Conventions address the fighting methods employed in the Arab world -- particularly the extent to which they use civilian areas.

...Lieberman says we dare not "indulge" Gladstone... ...Bibi says we must immediately find a strategy to change international laws relating to warfare... ...what Reb Yosef says, is as yet unknown... (...but I must, alas, rush off to the ballet before finding out... TA hedonist that I am...)

If Israel has not committed any war crimes, if the IDF has a perfectly good conscience, then what do you have to fear? The more rage you demonstrate fighting the report, the more guilty you appear. Make an inquiry into the charges and prove to the international community that they are wrong. This is the only way you will convince the world. Not by lobbying against Golstone.

...in response to the horrors perpetrated by the Nazis during WWII? Am I the only one who sees the obscene, bitter irony of Israeli Jews working to undermine the laws that were put in place in large part to try and prevent the kind of crimes that were carried out against Jews and others by the Nazis? Millions of Nazi victims must be rolling in their graves at this grotesque farce.

Looks like Obama has his orders. No war crimes trials for Hamas either. ""Netanyahu told Likud Knesset members on Monday that "the report is going to the UN [organs in New York]. We're going to see to it that it's vetoed." But in return Obama gets NOTHING. Self-defense does not include the right to indiscriminately bomb schools and hospitals.

Mr. Netanyahu is trying to set a precedent where war criminals write the laws that define war crimes. As U.S. Supreme Court justice Brennan once said about porgography. "I know it when I see it"

...before a high-ranking Israeli official will be tried in front of an International court for war crimes, probably side-by-side with a former Hamas operative. Remember South-Africa.

... and above all, not make any move that might even remotely be understood as acquiescence...

The Goldstone Report is a Trojan Horse send by President Obama against the Netanyahu Goverment

within rates established by Coalition Forces for the Iraqi and Afghan civilian bystander casualties of war. One price and one set of rules when waging the war on terror.

How can the head of this ostrich remain buried in the ground indefinitely, without suffocating itself...?

Is Israeli leadership so fearful of the truth that they need to continue to attack Goldstone and his report rather than present evidence supporting their own position? Is it feasible that the commands for the perceived war crimes can be tracked to the highest levels of Israeli leadership? Could it be that objective investigation of IDF actions may reveal aggresive, violent policies towards Palestinians in general? Is it possible there is a crack in the foundation between the Israeli nation and Jewish values which Israeli leaders prefer to hide from the world?

((The parenthese in "sorry" was just an example not an Empfehlung.)) I think we need no "honour". We have a country - thank you very much. We are poor idiots, happy not to beg, and we'll live. No one of us needs "a show of honour" - certainly not the Jews in the Diaspora, as long as they can be certain, that they can rely on Israel. (dass sie sich auf Israel verlassen können). Obviously it is a relief for them, that it is fine there. I didnt read the whole article (Haaretz).

What ever happen or didn't happen is yesterdays news. Unless Goldstone report shows how all these incidents occured while the Pals were wearing civillian clothes and takes into account that 7000 rockets and morters and bombs were sent into Israel. The report is garbage. This is war and mistakes happen. But considering if the Pals won and the situation was reversed would their be a Hamas report on wrong doing which we know would occur?

to discuss it. As defence minister he is the # one defendannt. Whether or not he chooses to defend his alledged innocence--is of no consequence--he is going to the hague --either way. Dont be making any long term plans Barak---your travelling days are over.

Normally Israel will causally avoid responsibility for their actions. This is second nature. Occassionally, Israel must make a more concerted effort to avoid responsibility. This is going on now. It never occurs to Israel to actually take responsibility for their own actions. In these cases, the effort taken to avoid responsibility hurts Israels image far more than taking responsibility would.

evidence from other persons dressed as civillians ?? no icc panel will ever hear any case based on goldstones report ! the first question any defence counsel will address to the court how did the commisssion know whom they were questioning ?

are issued, there is NOTHING that Israel can do to prevent those named from being arrested in other countries. Nothing! That's it. Any country can arrest them and bring them to trial. Does Ehud want to risk getting a room at the Hague...obviously not like the one at the Intercontinental Hotel in Paris? No. So, he and all of the other war criminals have better plan on going on vacation...where? The West Bank, Gaza? Right!

Considering that he was the responsible Defense Minister responsible for Cast Lead I am not the least surprised by Ehud Barak's reluctance. Someone with stars and political substance will be required to take the fall. Guess who?

Please do deliberate further. We are a "developing country" - we shouldt make a fuss. You Barak, please be not so sensitive. Dont we have enough nose-pokers to take care of that idiocy? Glory to the Sword. And you Nethanyahu, what do you think sending every moskito-bit to the UN-head-council for a US veto. I mean, it is good to have some self-determination, but if they want to put 'their nose.... I mean, obviously we cannot accept foreign observers in a matter of ZAHAL. (There have been some - I think - anyway.)

1. if there is no inquiry, it goes to ICC 2. or the inquiry produces a non-credible report, then it goes to ICC But rest assured, the ICC is a credible organisation and will judge fairly (can't wait!)

"propose a strategy for an informational and diplomatic response to the report," ... no straighforward response on-the-horizon... ... evasion, hemming-and-hawing... ... no regrets, chas-ve-chalila...