Israel hits back at Turkey over scuppered air force drill

but, wait, it's not our planes bombing Gaza, it's only the helicopters, no planes

How much is Turkey standing to gain from its turn about face in its relations with Israel? Not much but will be eating crow in their relations with the EU, NATO and the USA. Does anyone remembers the North African Arab alliance and what became of it? This honeymoon between Turkey and Syria and maybe other Arab countries has same death sentence as the North African alliance had and Turkey will be left out in the cold. No EU alliance, no NATO and Russia looking hungry.

Ghassan, you described Lebanon to a T. How long do you think Lebanon with you bed fellow Hezbollah will remain Lebanon? They have been murdering your elective officials and have penetrated into you government and your army. How long do you think Lebanon will last before it becomes another Iran? As it is you are an Iranian satellite not a free booming country Lebanon once was. You are a terro run country.

You should know that our country is blessed with everything we need. The only reason our meak government buys water from Turkey is to keep good ties. God provides us with all our needs, and blessed us to be "a nation that dwells alone". Arrogant? So be it!

Your accusation is ancient-old (see History and see Rashi Genesis 1:1). It is about time Jews took full possesssion of their land and inheritance, without guilt and without compromise, and without compunction.

Turkey is not the country it was 20 years ago. It has lost all it's identity and has become an ordinary Arab country. It is not anymore the country that Israel and the west once knew. Turkey will probably dissolve in the Arab and Persian Middle East very similarly like the rich Turkish culture which is going berserk.

Turkey did the best it could&protested Israel for the killings of innocent civilians not just in Gaza,but all over the Palestine for the past 61 years;in fact this was a very late response.Europe killed Jews for centuries,stole from them,assimilated them,but now they are the best friends with Israel&Jews.So what changed their attitude?Europe's hostility is not limited to Holocaust,dont forget 1492-been exiled from every single European country&also remember the Ottomans who helped u to start over&didnt treat u as the Europeans did.U say Turks are killing Kurdish people.No,we are killing PKK terrorist organization members who are fighting against our troops in the East of Turkey.First u have to seperate these 2:Kurds and PKK.There is no such thing as every nation or minority shud have their own state.Armenians died in the harsh conditions of the WWI and also some groups did attacked them(both turkish&kurdish)but the world shud stop dealing with the past&look at genocides occuring now!!

The Turkish army has crossed into Iraqi Kurdistan numerous times in the past fifteen years, most recently in February 2008. Kurdish deaths in this span are estimated at 37,000. Google any of these ops, and compare them with Cast Lead. What's the main difference between Operation Sun, Operation Hammer, et al., and Cast Lead? Israel had no involvement. So the world media -- and the Arab critics of Israel, who steer it -- paid these no attention. Of the world's 2,000 or so professional foreign correspondents, about a thousand are in Israel at any given time. Given its actions against the PKK, Ankara's comments do appear starkly hypocritical. The problem of asymmetric warfare has not been solved by anyone in this era.

Israel got the message LONG AGO, I believe the message arrived when we saw what happened to the Armenians

You do noy havwe a clue of any events that have taken place over there. That is i suppose why you hide here in a country of convenience. To afraid to get a first hand look. As the Israelis say money is not blood. cybespace is your forte. I am sure teh IDF salutes your dedication.

bob.its just been announced that welsh nationalists are going to start a campaign of firing "homemade missiles into england."...well they have been treated unfairly havent they?.. the missiles can only reach about 50/60 miles so dont overeact...... hope you dont live near bristol....

Israel must really start to grow up. I am just old enough to remember the holacaust which was the ultimate godless evil of the last century.Israel should accept valid criticism from the rest of the free world and stop using Gaza as an experiment into ethnic cleansing.If she does not, she will lose US support.

Four tries....you should know your limitations buddy.

Eli, Get a grip on reality. Saddam tried to break the coalition with other Muslim countries America had put together to fight Iraq, by lobbing scuds at Israel. Israel idiotically rose to the bait and threatened to retaliated which would have broken the coalition. America could not have been successful in Desert Storm without the Muslim countries. Israel would be worthless by itself and would not have made desert Storm successful. Baker threatened Israel a cut off in aid if it carried thru its threat to scuttle the coalition by attacking. Consequently, the lesson you should understand is that Muslims will never ally themselves or be associated with Israel against another Muslim nation. This is another reason why Israel can never be an American ally in the Middle East. It is a political pariah. We cannot do without our Muslim allies. We can easily live without Israel. Now do you get it? However, Israel is always open to take advantage of a situation. To guarantee it cooperation, Israel demanded (blackmailed America) and received an enhanced aid package (military economic, etc.) approximately 1 billion. It also included loan guarantees to assist in resettling Russian or Ethiopian immigrants and tied to freezing settlements and compensation for ?damages due to Scud attacks?. They later were able to double dip and receive another $75 million from UN brokered sales of Iraq oil. Israel is the only country to benefit financially from Desert Storm. Regarding recognition of your limitations. You clearly need to recognize yours. I hope this helps you in removing your head from that body orifice where it shouldn?t be. Or maybe that is the best place for it.

I completely agree with you

Turkey and Turks have the right to criticize Israel when she does wrong in a diplomatic way. However when Turkey never raises a word against Hamas when they kill Israeli children such as Yuval Abebeh and Dorit Benisian, when Turkey was silent when the attacked to Israeli buses shopping malls cafes and weddings this is a problem but not all. When Turkish government invites the head of Hamas this is like Israel inviting Abdullah Ocalan. Let me also remind you that Turkish PM Erdogan famous with his VAN MINUT gave the genocidal head of state of Sudan Omar Al Bashir the red carpet treatment. Forgive me for criticizing Turkey and her current leaders but Americans, Israelis ands Jews also have the right to criticize Turkey when she makes the wrong moves. And I can assure you Ataturk woud have considered the actoins of AKP very very wrong. Remember Menemen and Kubilay incident?

With very close Jewish friends and family, I have had difficulty explaining to my Jewish friends the troubles we Muslim Turks have over Israel's recent actions: 1- What happened in Gaza is not acceptable. You killed hundreds of children and women. This is disgusting. Jews have to get this straight in their minds 2. Israel does not have the upper hand over Turkey. You have to recognize that you can not survive in this region without our friendship. We love Jews. We do not like Israel killing innocent Muslims. Israel is also a former Ottoman Empire territory and so is Palestine. Furthermore before the Ottomans Seljuks and before them Mameluks ruled Jerusalem, all Turkish. You may be the original inhabitants but realize that Turks are very much tied to Jerusalem. 3. With so much public outcry do not expect Turkey to give the IAF the territory to train inside Turkey's territory. Recognize that this reaction is a signal to Israel and the US that Turkey will not allow a strike against Iran

Sad, very sad; not because of the 'cancellation',but injecting "genocide"into this relationship is not conducive in solving problems. Lets be realistic; Erdogan, Turkey are not strangers when it comes to genocide, not strangers when it comes fighting insurgency on their border. Adding a new "messy" phase into the M.E.politics,cannot help but aggravate the situation. Turkey wants to join the EU?; a forced marriage never works -- sadly a too common event in this part of the world. The solution?,If I had one,I would be Branded the " messiah of the year "

Actually, speaking as an Orthodox Christian in the Holy Land, I will tell you the Islamic and more closely, the Arab world could give three flying monkeys about "Western values and culture". It is Western (American and European) involvement in our affairs that has been the problem since the first World War, the discovery of oil in Arab/Persian nations, etc. That is the problem. You think we dislike America because of your music, movies, etc? Maybe if your country (England) never decided to deceive the Arabs after helping England in the 1st World War against the Ottomans, these problems we currently have in the region would be non-existent.

While old stories of genocodes are being revealed, please be aware that by the action of the then British Indian Government,about five milliom Bengalees were starved to death in the grater Bengal in 1943 which fact the world should know and investigate.Please note that there was no shortage of food in India at the time.

The answer is NO. The deal was signed but for some reason that I am not completely familiar it was never executed. I believe there was an issue about how to package it or something like that and cost.

See my Izmirli Hemseri? There are two sides to all stories. Izmir is the most modern and tolerant community in Turkey. In my youth with the NATO headquarters at the corner of Kordon and Mustafabey street, the Cigli Airforce base the American Hospital one block away from Efes Hotel and the modern American library, The french Hospital run by French Catholic nuns inj Gundogdu, the Saint Joseph high school, Italian high school in Alsancak and the American goirls high school in Guzelyali Izmirli's were close to foreigners and understood the value of living in a multicultural environment and tolerance. Before you accuse Israel and Jews for all trhe ills of the world you should stop and think as the opposite side also and see the issues from BOTH SIDES as the famous Honi Mitchell song goes. And finally; There is no doubt that in this ME conflict Israeli's bear some responsibility however the responsibilities that the Arabs share are not less then then those of the Israelis.

#1 Israel has the right to defend itself under int'l law. #2 Read the Hamas Charter and consider the reasons Israel hit Gaza. #3 It's GOOD that Turkey did this, because the LAST thing the EU is Islamist Turkey and hopefully REAL Europeans will realize this.

"But we would like to know when you intend to get out of Occupied Syrian lands." I believe, friend Gillian, that Israel has a plan to withdraw from the Golan Heights to coincide with the withdrawal of the British occupation of Las Malvinas and Gibraltar. Let's all hope that happens soon.

even the Native Americans hate Obama's socialism. And, a Chief of the North American Tribes visited Israel to let the them know the Native Americans are on their side and support them. Idiot!!

Turkey needs Israel just like Israel needs stable relationship with Turkey. Let's not forget that Turkey benefits from Israeli high tech and know how in medicine, agriculture, defense. Fresh water and fish farms in Turkey depend on Israelis to purify.

my views about war and peace, justice or injustice. I will only get in your face when your comments are directed at Jews in a most vile way. Disagreeing with Israeli policy is one thing...calling Israelis names, and blaming Jews for all that goes wrong with the world is another. If the Jews had so much power as you so freely grant them, I guarantee you they would have had your ass tightened right up by now.

"Why do the Muslims keep persecuting them? Why does anyone think it`s OK for 1.57 billion people to agitate for the demise of 7 or 8 million people? It`s a sick twisted ideology." Can you believe what it would be like without an Israel? Who could the Arabs blame their historic pathetic mistakes and their present day failed state reality on? What would Arab regime leaders use as a distraction for their oppressed subjects? Isreal is very good for the Arabs. It seems to them that it releases them from any kind of responsibility or even self examination as to the cause of their continual failures.

Yes, Jens, who but NATO could be a better judge of which countries to exclude because of war crimes? While NATO is busy with its aerial campaign of destruction and death that it rains down upon Afghani civilians, I agree with you that justice would be served by having them criticize Israel for its defensive actions against marauding Arabs. This makes complete sense, just like having Turkey condemn Israel for genocide must seem very logical to you too. "NATO should follow through and make make a ban towards any contacts with Israel until Israel has complied with UN resolutions calling for full withdrawel to 1967 borders, accepted inspector and full nuclear disarmament and offered full cooperation with international courts prosecuting IDF war criminals."

`The region always belonged to Turkey`, this was your quote, and you might wanna recheck your history books, because the region belonged to Ottoman Empire not Turkey for sure, for Ataturk himself drove the Ottoman heir out and officialy ended it. Even if that land belonged to you, that doesnt give you the right to interfere to the choices of people living on that land

Armenians,Greeks (several decades ago)had to flee from there,and left with only what they had on their backs going to Greece after so many centuries.There are hardly any GREEKS LEFT in turkey now. Did you know there are 24 million Kurds who's life is a misery and are constantly persecuted over in turkey? Have enough with Islamism and TURKEY.They are NOW another islamistic country. Hey,they have been trying to join the EU,for years but the EU does NOT want them.Wonder why hmmmm???

Difficult to see how else the Israeli govmt thought their militay's atrocities will be seen elsewhere in the world. I wonder if they expected the rest of the world's militaries to be impressed when they launched missiles and airstrikes...killing 300 children. Wow. F16 vs children. Must have been a heroic victory. This is Israeli heroics today. Whatever happened to the guys who fought for independence? Against the odds in the 6 day and Yom Kippur? Is this what today's Israel calls heroes? Child killers?

"It`s interesting (and telling) how many posts indict Turkey for crimes committed 90 years ago instead of trying to defend Israel`s current actions. Anything they did that far in the past can`t have any bearing of the accuracy of decisions made today"(Potobac) What Turkey is doing to the Kurds is 90 years ago? I think NOT, Potobac ... You are also very quick to make excuses for what happened 90 years ago for some. But I bet you won't be so ready to forgive those whom you don't like for even things that they supposedly did 2000 years ago ... You wouldn't consider yourself to be a hypocrite, would you Potobac?

That turkey persecuted,and still are doing so. turkey doesn't want to join?Boo,hoo. As if Israel gives a damn.I think Ataturk must be turning in his grave,with your erdogan's fundemental islamism,making his wife cover herself in a veil.Charming...Meantime,they cannot live without the TOURIST INDUSTRY WITH BARE ASSED EUROPEAN women.They have to accept it,because they need the money.Poor,poor Erdogan the fundemental islamist bofoon. And who said the US decided on this latest?Firt I heard about it.turkey should remember where they get their weaponry form?Good old ISRAEL. Yup,that it folks..

"Israel, mend your ways, you know war is not the right way!!"(#254) You are exhorting the wrong side. You should be telling your Palestinians that war is not the right way for them to get a free Palestine. Tell them that they need to compromise if they REALLY want a free Palestine because right now they are NOT focusing on a free Palestine. They are still focusing on ways to eliminate a free Israel, as they have for the last 60 years ...

...that people who live in a glass house should not throw stones at others ....

You should buy a Koran and read it, also see the following in YouTube: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=tCGTdYO7P7g&feature=related http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UQS_Wy8MKvw&feature=fvw

And that's entirely appropriate. Europe should be free to defend themselves. Clearly Turkey will continue to push for EU membership and it's only appropriate that the US and another non EU states pull back from NATO. It's equally clear that once NATO troops leave Afghanistan in 2010 NATO is finished anyway as no European states will continue to participate or fund it. With a rapid build down of NATO matched large decreases in each state's defense budgets perhaps Russia will defend them. Or not.

I don't understand why israelis continue to travel in Turkey where antisemitic and anti-israeli posters can be seen. I know that cheap all included tours are available, but is it sufficient to choose this country?

What message would that be ah? To stop defending itself? Did not Turkey do the same when they went into northern Iraq just a few years back. The Kurds provoked them far less than Hamas did Israel.

what's good for it instead of telling itself what is catastrophic for it. That's our country, led by a government that can still express surprise at what is happening to it. Goldstone is no good because the world will no longer be allowed to mow defenseless people down in the name of fighting terrorism and Turkey's naughtiness strikes a blow at NATO, European and American interests; When will it sink in Mr. Netanyahu? When?

Turkey have historical roots with The region, Jewish or Muslim. They lived peacefully under Ottoman Empire rule. Now we are very sorry for this conflict. This situtation hurts us. Both losses are sad. We want peace between all Arabs and Israel. As Turkey, We have to protest if Israel make wrong moves even we are allies. We can't keep silence if there is an unfair situtation. It's our responsibility comes from history. Also I accept holocaust. But Armenian Genocide is a big lie, it is only a motivation for Armenian Diaspora. This claims makes them stronger they collect money for their alleged genocide campaigns. finally Turkey & Israel are allies and it will never finish. But we can critisize and protest you it's our responsibility.

The question is what does Kurds and Armenians have to do with Turkey-Israel military drill? LOL at the Israeli mentality. If someone criticize them; they always find problems with that person or nation. If that person have no problem then he/she is anti-semitic. Turks killed Armenians, Jimmy Carter is anti-semitic, Swedes are anti-semitic.......

Before you get too far in your cultural relativism, please read the link below. And remember that criticizing a culture is not exactly racism. http://tinyurl.com/m2snek ps. I can't believe you are in Haifa. On the campus of Berkley, maybe.

You have no Oil and very little water. you better come up with an alternative know how. I hear de salinisation is purtee expensive. Oh well --you seperatists will manage---somehow--after you decide to make peace and stop robbing your neighbours water and resoursec.

What is the probability of Turkey joining the European Union in the next 200 years? ZERO How significant is it that the Muslim world with 25% of the world population has produced only 0% of the Nobel price winners?

They gave up on EU and might replace the quest for union with russia and iran and former soviet republic more money in there more energy and less headache

another good reason not to admit Turkey to E.U. Turkey does not have 'clean hands' to judge others. U.S. needs Turkey air bases to war zones. otherwise they would tell Turkey to execise alone. with such friends, who needs enemies. another 'failed state' in the making. and so on....

and are not now or will ever be part of the EU think they have something to say about Turkey and the EU?

Cyprus land is occupied by Turks just as Palestinian land is occupied by Israelis.

"Do we still buy water from Turkey???" The correct question would be: Is Turkey still generous enough to sell us water? But you arrogant Jews really think that you are doing others a favour when they help you satisfy your most basic needs.

Everybody knows Israel's know-how about drilling water: Israel steals it from Palestinians. No secret there.

Hopefully Turkey will be part of the EU soon too ...thank you for your principles. more countries to follow...Israel, mend your ways, you know war is not the right way!!

Does he mean the tunnel bombing that Israel warned would happen, and is happening, for every rocket launched North and East? Gaza is aware of the warning, and is choosing to ignore it. So don't get all excited about Gaza's free choice.

"Actually Qatzrin Is In Israel" It is by Israeli law - by international law it is not. Wine from the Golan cannot be sold in the EU as made in Israel.

Why dont you practice what you preach? You can start by not reading Israeli websites!

It's interesting (and telling) how many posts indict Turkey for crimes committed 90 years ago instead of trying to defend Israel's current actions. Anything they did that far in the past can't have any bearing of the accuracy of decisions made today. Zionists when faced with having to defend their country's actions are often forced into their default response of pointing out someone else's crimes (their own are indefensible).

Time to drill our own wells, and keep our know-how to ourselves.

Robert writes: "Turkey is a Muslim country. Its aim was to conquer Europe in the Middle ages. It has no business being a member of Nato." Then, Robert, Germany has no right to be in Nato since it tried to conquer Europe too. Oh wait, no no no, it's ok because they are Christian.... Mea culpa!

decided it was time to recognize the genocide of the Armenians (I saw footage of the death marches of the women, children and the elderly) the US Senate stopped the resolution. It's ALWAYS been about politics and never about Human Rights.

R.C. writes: "When will you wake up and see the truth. The Muslim religion calls for our destruction, it?s in the Koran." This is patently false. Normally I wouldn't even dignify this type of idiotic statement with a response but this is very dangerous that this sort of thing is being said. I am concerned that many youngsters who read these pages are going to be misled and are going to walk away with this incorrect impression of Islam. Do we want Peace or do we want War? Consider this before you take a stand on anything. And once you straighten this out in yourselves then consider what you say carefully....

To Simon when you say that there is no advanced muslim country. Before you talk this way - why don't you travel to these places and see for yourself if they are advanced or not. Then think about what the definition of "advanced" is. There is so much history at work here that this is beyond most of the myopic historiographical viewpoint that the West propagates. Funny! We in the West talk about Science and careful methodology - much of our legal systems are based around the idea that there are two sides to a story. Yet! When faced with the subject of History - we are always convinced we are right because we are "Advanced". Do any of us really know the story of the middle-east, its history and turmoils, from their viewpoint? What hubris to think what they understand and see doesn't matter. And you, Simon of Sydney, embodies this arrogance. And we wonder why "they" hate us. Or is it, we (and this includes myself since I am part of the system) are basically racist?

Turkey? It's in the grip of a right wing nationalist/religious party, refuses Kurdish independence, beats up the Kurds, denies the Armenian massacres and is facing obstacles joining the EU. Israel? It's in the grip of right wing nationalist/religious parties, refuses Palestinian independence, beats up the Palestinians, denies the Nakba and is facing mounting hostility from the EU. There is a difference however. Turkey is a valued member of NATO, a bulwark for Europe and is endeavouring to come to an historical accord with Armenia over past events. While Israel is only a source of problems for NATO and Europe, refuses to make any concessions over the West Bank/Jerusalem and opposes the Nakba being taught in schools or commemorated. (And is alone in the world over settlements, occupation, water seizure, Cast Lead etc). If you had to choose, the Turkish contender looks by far the prettier option to the outside eye.

Quoting from Andrew Michaels: "It was only a matter a time before Turkey would turn against Israel. Arab & Muslim countries do not understand what objectivity is and anytime war is engaged against a fellow muslim country or terrorist group by a non muslim the non muslim side is always the evil one." This is such a broad generalization that is so false that it invalidates almost everything you say afterwards. This type of statement of yours is like an anti-semite saying that you can't trust a Jew not to get the best business from you. How can you purport to have the insight to truth when you peddle in and help propagate prejudices like what you said? Unless you are really a racist and you do not yet know it. The truth is, however, that Turkey is in internal trouble and there are problems that have emerged as a result of a lot of factors, and political Islam is only part of the story. So - know a little more of what you are talking about before you start shooting your mouth off.

It is true, the Turkish government and conservators at the Ottoman Archives has a lot to explain about the Armenian genocide (there is no Kurdish genocide, this is as stupid as it is ridiculous to suggest: if there were such a genocide then how come there are 24 million Kurds living all over Turkey?). But to your more erudite point: Turkey's chance of joining the EU are poor but why would you want them to re-establish the caliphate? Your dissmissive tone suggests that this is the only road that will get played out. On the other hand, why not help Turkey (as a nation of Muslims of diverse as America is a nation of Christians) maintain their secular system instead of actively trying to destabilitze it? ...unless you WANT a worldwide religious war. Think about it.

changed my views about peace with our neighbors. But I am always in your face when you or others attack Israel frivolously...primarily because we are Jews. We recognize the nuances in your attacks immediately....we have a long histry with your kind. I must go now to meet my Moslem friends who like me as a Jew but oppose all Israeli policies. We argue but we break bread together every weekend...fallafel is a wonderful healing food.

What you say is true that "Musevi" is the more humane address for our people while "Yahudi" carries with it a bit of racialist smack (I know, I grew up in Istanbul). However, please remember that there is no distinction made in the Turkish legal system based on one's religion. There are no legal restrictions to anyone's movements and opportunities in both govertment, business and the Army based on their religion. I cannot say that this is the case in Israel (I am ashamed to say!). Yes, there is racism in Turkey which is mostly societal - a quiet admission that the Jews are different - an attitude that they are different and must be treated that way. This is the same thing in Israel when we consider the Palestinians - and let us not deny this.

This is directed to "Israeliguy". Armenian genocide, yes. The Kurds getting jacked-around: yes. These are all true. However - Cyprus is not solely Greek. This is an ignorant thing to say and you should watch yourself and get your facts right. The island has been shared by the two ethnic groups for over 500 years. It is true that Turks came after the Greeks. But they've been there for 500 years...so they belong to that land just as the other Greeks do. Shame on you - get your history right.

""Clearly you are drooling to become part of Europe -- as if any part of Israel could ever be part of Europe, let alone part of EU. And certainly no people living illegally in Syria and calling it Israel will ever be admitted to the EU."" says whom ? You ?

version. "It was annexed. Israel may, and I repeat MAY overturn its decision and give it back to Syria, if and only if Syria decides to engage in a real peace with Israel."Eli. so please spell out what that real peace might look like---from the Israeli perspective---dont forget--we want there to be peace---right---Eli???. The UN has passed numerous resolutions condemning Israel,s annexation. Now you knew I knew that---but you were hoping for more "virgin mimds" right Eli. Nice try though Eli. I have noticed that lately you have become much more "pensive". Are you too feeling the impending end to Israel,s wild west days???.

along the Iranian border, it just isn't the time for that. One day we wil get the whole story, this certainly wasn't that.

In the last Anatolian Eagle exercise, in June 2008, Israel chosed not to participate. Aparently it works both ways, if indeed it was the Turks that cancelled "international participation", because the Anatolian Eagle exercise at Konya will be held as scheduled. So far we only have the Israelis word for this story and we all know how much that is worth. Maybe some NATO countries tried to turn it into a US/Israeli Turkish exercise, by staying away and then it becomes a bit clearer. No word from NATO, Italy, US or Turkey all we have is the Israeli Hasbara crap, but you all knew that...didn't you?

As a Turk,I am not anti-semitist but I definetely agree with the decision.Turkey(the most of Turks)want this:Israel should stop to bomb the innocent people. Hamas is only a policy for Erdogan.Don't forget that Turkey has no need the Israelis army tecnology.Turkey is a nato member.And we can deploy many rockets,tanks,weapons etc. You are talking about the armenian genocide.Ottoman Empire killed 300.000 armenians in 1918 because they killed most of turks when The ottomans were in war with russians.Armenians killed the turks firstly but no one talked about this.An finally Turks don't kill the kurds in here.There are over 11 million kurds in Turkey.How can we kill them? The Pkk is an organization,which wants to split he land.Pkk killed 30.000 People in 20 years.No one talked about this. When the palestines want a big part of Tel aviv,and kill the 30.000 israelis,what can you do?

And arrest the lot of them for war crimes in Gaza

says who?

So we are racists now for wanting the Goldstone Report to be investigated properly. Well I suppose it is a valid defence of a sort. You don't agree with everything that II say and because of that you are either 1. Racist 2. Anti Semitic 3. A Nazi Yep I can see how you structure the defrence now don't argue with evidence, facts, figures even. Just attempt to silence all opposition regardless. How dare the Goy in the Goyim express a view.

Indeed, Israel's Foreign Ministry is the most stupid I know of. To choose Avigdor Lieberman, a persona non grata, for the task of top Israeli diplomat is unbelievably stupid, bordering in suicidal.

Islamist Turkey is trying to find its identity bashing Israel in order to be part of the Islamic world. Erdogan's party renders Turkey's participation in NATO a failure: It is not a reliable ally.

and turkey can be the first to recognize Palestine on the 67 borders as a state

defense as a war crime. But then again, we also believe that people are a bit more intelligent.... and have also overcome their racism.

defense as a war crime. But then again, we also believe that people are a bit more intelligent.... and have also overcome their racism.

Excellent move by the Turks! As a European I welcome any initiative that can be helpfull to curb the criminal acts of Israel. I will drop an email to the Turkish embassy tomorrow, wherein I will ask for the next step: barring all Israeli civil aircraft to pass trough Turkish skies. Such means that Israelis have to start counting their blessings, because such means that in case of emergencies, no El Al plane would be allowed to land on Turkish soil and neither on the Turkish part of Cyprus. As soon as Greece will copy the Turks...flights to Europa by El Al would be come close to impossible if not very costly. In case of emergencies...El Al planes have to land in Lybia. Thus Ghadaffi could order the arrests of IDF officers and extradite them to the democratic Republic of Hamastan, in Gaza, where the IDF killers can be put on trial.

Clearly you are drooling to become part of Europe -- as if any part of Israel could ever be part of Europe, let alone part of EU. And certainly no people living illegally in Syria and calling it Israel will ever be admitted to the EU.

For months, these same nimrods in Netanyahu?s administration have without cause insulted Turkey. They labeled Turkey as too biased to function as an intermediary in negotiations with Syria. Then they barred Turkey?s Foreign Minister from visiting Gaza on an Israeli visit. This ban is a predictable reaction to Israel?s recent behavior.

turkey has been of late a reluctant member of nato. the islamist government's sympathies are not with the western alliance. like all muslim countries, turkey is hostage to its islamic religious tendencies. one day, turkey will have to decide whether it wants to live in the middle ages or in the twenty first century. turkey will have to choose between modernism and obscurantisim--between development and backwardness.

It was annexed. Israel may, and I repeat MAY overturn its decision and give it back to Syria, if and only if Syria decides to engage in a real peace with Israel.

"Turkey appears to do all it can not to be accepted to the EU" Acceptance of Turkey to the EU will be assessed by European institutions. Israeli input is not needed nor wanted.

Hey Israelis...instead of bashing Goldstone and the UN...did you ever stop to think that maybe Israel DID commit war crimes in Gaza?? Just saying.

it is funny how megaloman are the israelis, they want to fight all the arabs, muslims, iran, sweden, turkey, europe, the UN, you name it :) soon they might realize how small they are, and that they can not simply commit war crimes every now and then, they need a humbling experience to put things to perspective.

There has to be a reason why Turkey wont be amember of the EU. Turkey thinks it is still the Ottoman Empire, they are just a second dated country with a thirld world economy with nothing to offer in the world. Erdogan will pay the prize for going against the spirit mof Kemal Ataturk

I am aware of these training exercises, they take place every year. I have relatives in the Israeli Air Force, and they would speak of travelling to Turkey to take part in the air wars. Two years ago the countries participating were the United States, Israel, Germany and Turkey. there is alot of playful and not so playful competition between the different particpants. In the exercise my relatives participated in the US came out on top in the dogfights, followed by Israel, Germany with Turkey in last. Seems this not so lofty place is held by Turkey year after year. Seems their pilots and top brass got tired of witnessing their failure year after year. this is a matter of honor more than anything else. Turkey is looking to be master of the Moslem world, like it used to be until the arrival of the French and Brits. It is sad to see this old nation, trying to play the cute blonde.

never will be so you can keep your opinion to yourself. No one is listening. But we would like to know when you intend to get out of Occupied Syrian lands. Qatzrin is in the Golan---not Israel.

like a hole in the head.

Erdogan has shown he has guts to stand up for the American/Israeli axis of evil. Maybe Mubarak and Abdallah etc will take note and follow.

Livni/Barak/Olmert/galutz/Yalon et al. You got a place to put them up. No, ok the ICC will oblige. Hope you are young--you will be able to visit them overt a long long spell.

Turkey is doing what other countries should be doing. If they are offended by the massive Israeli invasion of Gaza, then they should be applying pressure on Israel.

so no need to listen to either of you. Get out of occupied territory.(Golan)

No, it's not them that go into isolation. It's Israel that is on isolation course in case you didn't notice yet. Lieberman is a perfect FM to stay on course and maybe a few more war crimes here and there will do the rest.

when the israeli stance got under international fire, due to its disproportionate use of force on the civilian palestinian population of the Gaza strip.

"Turkey Cancells A Non Event With Israel" If it's so unimportant, why does the Israeli deputy foreign minister comment on it? Will you kindly allow that take the same liberty?

need to know who "We" is. Just making sure you dont think Israel is or ever will be in Europe or the EU.(EUROPEAN UNION). It,s a European thing Kenny.

Turkey continues to recieve Millions from the US each year. It would appear as though the US could place a little heat on Turkey by threatening to withhold the hundreds of Millions of USD if they don't include Israel in training exercises. It's that simple.

They need Israel more than Israel need them. They will realize that one day...

Instead of collaborating with the EU, NATO and the US, Turkey places its relationships to Islam and Muslim countries ahead. This was one such clear case. The message to Europe: Be careful about involving Turkey in European and NATO affairs because Turkey's interests may conflict with Europe's and North America's

Screw Erdogan and his cronies. He only plays this to stay in power.

Isn't it noticeable that everythime a country disagrees with Israel, it is going to turn into either pakistan, Iran or Afghanistan, and that everyone is leaving. Whilst issing the point that a government which is elected by the people may simply be prursuing a populaist policy in the face of afinancial hardship caused by a world recession. I mean a Politician has to eat to.

From the Americans for what he did. In Turkey nobody can stay in power if Americans do not want and do not support them. Davos incident had already pissed the Americans off, this time it is too much. For example Tansu Ciller was even proven to have been an American spy and American citizen too (while being Turkish PM), Demirel and Ozal have been the foot soldiers of US in Turkey. Erdogan is the first Turkish leader who tried to put the American backing of Israel on test and I think the test did not give a very good result for him :)

Capitulate, capitulate says the Nations, you Israel have no right to your land or your defenses. When we are isolated from them & our allies, then the Almighty will rise-up on our behalf. We will go thru tribulation, but the Nations face death. Our ancestors wanted to be a nation among the Nations, but the Nations will not have us. Draw nigh to El Shaddai, return to the written Torah and cleanse HaShem's land, like Yehoshua did. BH

What happened to the Israel that sought to have as many nations as it could have favorable relations with it? When did it become a nation which seeks to offend, and revels in doing so?

Effendi Bill, You din't even have the minimal guts to write from where you are. Scared! Frightened ! or simply acting like a mouse. Actually,what you are saying: it's ok to kill One Million & more Armenians, & Kurds,but not to talk about it ! So you can continue till this day, straffing killing & bombing helpless Kurds who don't have an air force of their own nor an Independent country. (Not yet.) And by the way what is Turkey doing in Greek Cyprus ? You Bill, are really disgusting to the extreme. What country are you from ?

Europe. I hope our leaders in Europe raise this issue with the US. Cow towing to each and every Israeli complaint is not going to get paece. Bush and co did everything except perhaps kiss Israel,s derrier (derry Air) and where did that get us. Israel is not in NATO or in Europe.---who cares what they think.

It will be better for the world. In the meantime hurray for Turkey standing up for what is right.

Soon the military censorship will be invoked. May I suggest "Israel wants no rift with Turkey". Tic tac tic tac.......

and this is only the begining. The Pariah status Israel have achived after Operation Cast Lead will only be washed away by agreeing to move behind the Green Line and allow for the refugees to return. Turkey, as a NATO, member is now leading the way together with the US. More NATO countries will undoubtfully follow suit openly. The choice between Israel or Turkey is a no brainer and Turkey is now asking them to chose. Israel who has been trying to enter NATO through the back door now finds it closed shut. The US will now have to arm Turkey to its teeth with Israel out of the picture. Something that Israel will object to and then all hell will break lose. The very survival of NATO is at stake.

Agree, Israel must recognize Kurdistan nowwwwwwwwwwwww, it will happened anyway, but Israel should be the first country to call for an Independent Kurdistan

Israeli mindest which is so detached from reality. Sad but funny at same time.

To think anybody would need Israel's help to enter the EU? It's Israel who dreams of getting into the EU. Fortunately since Israel isn't part of Europe it has no chance.

I am in Turkey right now, and it looks like a muslim extremist nation. All secular turks have told me they are leaving and that soon Turkey will turn into Pakistan. There will not be an alliance with Turkey soon. Soon there will be suicide bombings and chaos with the Islamic extremists there just like the rest of the Muslim world.

Back in 2001 Turkey denied US passage into iraq and now this. I say US and Israel should pull all cooperation with turkey.

Turkey and Iran are going the same path.By the way the only country where the jews were not prosecuted is Armenia.

Will Israel admit to the massacres at Deir Yassin and other Palestinian villages, and to driving out three quarters of a million Palestinians from their homes in 1948? And to erasing over 500 historic Palestinian villages from the maps? Not to mention stealing a large part of the rest of Palestine, east of the green line, and continued theft of Palestinian water and other natural resources?

Agree sweden, the israeli must not treval to Turkey for holidays for at list 6 months, you will se how many hotels will go out of business. Turkey is just playing politics, no NATO for Turkey, Turky must take a stand,and stop trying to please the terrorist in one hand, and on the other, giving the impresion that they are with the peace loving contries

To Ali in Ohio- #107 Just wondering the brand of booze you're indulging.....How about " Given YOUR world's animosity toward Israel " Maybe we should impose a $ 2000.00 fine on them for the privilege of taking a pick at the masterpiece that 60 years of hard work and dedication created. Think about it,..... after the 3rd bottle...!

Bill I understand from your post that we the Israeli people have earned the title of War Criminals, and have a PR problem. Because we have killed a composite of 1400 in Gaza, and have not met the British American required standard to be a saint in this world, of tens or hundreds of thousands of civilians, in a civilized warfare; or a single aerial bombardment. I have taken your note and I will pass it on to my government as ridicules as it is! Maybe we could learn something from you after all, although I really don`t think so!

Axel I don`t know, But I am pretty much familiar as an Israeli living in Israel with the Armenian Massacre or Genocide in the Turkish territory, and I am pretty much sure that every Israeli knows about it as well. It is very nice of you to note and highlight the word NOW in your post, which reminds me that Germany only opened its mouth for the first time about the Armenian Genocide in 2005 and even then your government chose to call it the Armenian mass killing rather then a Genocide. Which brings me to the question what was the German role in the Armenian Genocide, Oh you didn`t know did you! P/S By the way Axel, if you want to know more about the Armenian Genocide contact the Hebrew University Armenian Studies Program (in Israel) founded in 1967!

I've expected your denial,but Europe always did looked the other way when the "powerful"like china commit genocide.That is not new.The new thing is that now they do that also with not "powerful"countries like the Sudan.Here it is not greed or fear that dictate the policy,it is appeasement of Muslims.

The blow is not an action that will affect Nato but rather a blow to Turkey, as when it may be threatened by its rogue neighbors, Nato may not be ready to respond.

The very allience is at stake and after the ending of the "cold war" Russia have been knocking on the door. Turkey's apparent freeze of any co-operation with Israel, since the breaching of Turkey's airspace during the "cold run" last year, is going to put NATO under intense pressure not to allow for the Israeli military to participate or face Turkey 'going to the Russians'. NATO's most eastern member plays a crucial part in the "new NATO" and its expanded atmosphered theater. Turkish demands will be taken very seriously, because if Turkeys leaves the allience that will be the end of it. The Turkish decision will be welcomed by all Muslim states and Turkey "going east" a real possibility. This is of course a devastating blow to Israel aswell and a direct threat to the future of NATO. The Turks would love to test the Article V and any attempt by Israel to put pressure on Turkey will be seen as an hostile act and from there we can only guess.

To 140 Axel I said the Muslim countries did not offer to help their sold called brethren. Did not mention any other country so wake up

"Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon called Ankara's step "a blow to NATO" We need no comments from non-NATO states about what is a blow to NATO, or not.

be a blow to NATO? The Deputy Foreign Minister is telling the Israeli people lies. The fact of the matter is despite the close involvement of the United States of America Turkey told Israel to stay away. Reminding the Israeli people of the pipelines being built to provide Israel with gas, oil and water are coming from where?

The Islamic government of Turkey has more or less the same ideology as Hamas. It desires to sever ties with Israel, only a matter of time for them to prepare this move. Israel should be very careful about providing advanced military technology to an Islamic regime that hates Jews, want to see Israel disapear.

Our company constantly receives email solicitations offering 'up scaled' manufactured goods from Turkey. I, as the companies policy maker, cringe at the thought of buying from Turkey or any other Muslim manufacturer.

thanks you very much and it isn't a blow to NATO but a blow to the 'jewish supremist wannabe/state'

are the individuals who attack Israel for doing in a more humanitarian way what other nations have done when put to the wall, to a far lesser degree, and were/are silent. They/we know who they are, and they get the respect that they deserve.

In recent years Israel has spoken and acted contemptuous of Turkey, and then came Cast Lead. Israel is now unhappy that folks noticed.

Now you know why turkey is not admitted in the European Community, it sides with terrorists and its own genocides exlain many things. What is turkey doing in Cyprus? by the way... erdogan is a pig!

Axel I don`t know, But I am pretty much familiar as an Israeli living in Israel with the Armenian Massacre or Genocide in the Turkish territory, and I am pretty much sure that every Israeli knows about it as well. It is very nice of you to note and highlight the NOW part in your post, which reminds me that Germany only opened its mouth for the first time about the Armenian Genocide in 2005 and even then your government chose to call it the Armenian mass killing rather then a Genocide. Which brings me to the question what was the German role in the Armenian Genocide, Oh you didn`t know did you! P/S By the way Axel, if you want to know more about the Armenian Genocide contact the Hebrew University Armenian Studies Program (in Israel) founded in 1967!

also "disgust you" as you say about the Jews since the Americans killed over 200,000 Iraqi and probably over 30,000 Afghani civilians? Or is your disgust reserved for Jews only? Suck it up buddy boy.

Hi Simon, you are right and wrong. Except of Malaysia and Turkey I can't oversee a muslim country making money with industrial goods and not with oil. But what has the "Christian" way brought good to the world so far? Atomic bombs (Hiroshima and Nagasaki), Tschernobyl, millions of starving people each year, poverty from Asia to Latin America and from Europe to the US, environmental pollution, climate change, financial crisis with millions of unemployed people not only in Europe but in "god owns country" the very heart of capitalism the US. Regards

If you Israelis are not welcome in Turkey you should not visit Turkey and spend your valuable foreign exchange there. Spend your vacations in Israel for a change!

Yesterday, the Taliban showed that thanks to Obama indifference and ineptness, they can invade any area of Pakistan at will! The Turkish military got the hint knowing that the forces of ISlamist terrorism is in control in the Turkish Parliament and the leaders of the Turkish military are next. What better way to distract the masses then try and ridicule the Jews. What is OBVIOUSLY next will be a staged assault on Kurdish civilians with the Turkish government claiming they were "attacked."

Doors are beginning to close to Israel. Jordan's turning away from it. Now Turkey. The British UN ambassador's endorsed Goldstone. You see far more Americans on here criticising Israel then ever before. The world's patience with Israel is virtually exhausted. Israel has to come up with plans to free the Pals. It can't just go on keeping an entire nation in captivity forever while stealing its land.

The US specifically asked Israel not to participate in Desert Storm and begged her not to retaliate against Saddam's missiles which were lobed at her because the US and its other so called allies went to war with Iraq. Just because you were offered a clerical position at a Jewish firm should not enrage you about Jews. Everyone should recognize their limitations, so should you.

Then you will have to go else-where...

kurdish villages for the past 20 years ?? it seems our old friend hypocrisy is alive and kivcking !

most boycotts have backfired against Israel. jews and our supporters will take up any slack. How long will it take the arab/muslim nations to understand that ?

After the analyses,if you ask my view on that: I do not care. NATO is an organization that exists only and only to defend American and western interests. To defend the interests of weapon producers and imperialists whose only aim is to suck the blood of poor nations by corrupting and further corrupting their leaders. America played on the right wing religious card in Turkey for 30 years and now we have medieval islam in power, happy ? Turkey is funny enough to feel important to be part of NATO while none of its weapons are Turkish designed. Turkish politicians in the past tried to create in the minds of Turkish people that it is good for Turkey to be in NATO that we are equal members: what ??? Turkey is just a servant of western interests and whoever opposes this ends up being eliminated in one way or another. This, even the corrupt islamists in power know very well, so they play their game in moderation.Islam and NATO are bad things,when they are together like in Turkey,it is hell!!

Dear, Erdogan is not afraid of any consequences, baning the IAF of Turkish airspace he is right because those very pilots have been bombing Gaza not only with conventional munition but also using weapons which are forbidden by Geneva convention. Every body knows what is going on in the Gaza strip unfortunately western and arab governments are putting their heads in the sand not willing to see or hear the suffering. Erdogan is enjoying the wide support of the man on the street and that makes him defiant to stand up and say what is really going on I would say. If you are truly from Istanbul try to talk to the people in the street, and how many Turkish citizens are coming (allowed)here to Jerusalem to worship their fate? Al Aqsa is already no go place for Muslims from around the world.

I'd like to acknowledge your ability to see this conflict from both sides and think critically about it. I find that's a rare quality in people in general, but especially when it comes to the Arab-Israeli conflict. I ask the same questions you do, I hope one day to find an answer.

and the anti-semitic peanut gallery came out in force with 142 posts cheering the event. Even the 1933-1945 German crowd like Axel rose up from the dead to lend a helping hand.

are you posting under two names?????. Danny boy Yeah they had a good reaso---same one Israel uses---greed for land.

You should pick up a copy of. Burry my Heart at Wounded Knee. and read it. I believe the author is D. Brown

.. the main aggressor in the ME. Somebody has to say it and now Turkey did. Great!

It is rather humorous to see you all use the same terminology in attacking the Jewish State. Obviously, your overlords in Teheran have properly instructed you in how to respond and speak. Given your slave status as a colonized region of a far away country, rather interesting you wouldn't rather be trying to gain your independence then attacking the FREE AND INDEPENDENT JEWISH STATE. But the, mind control through threats do work!

It is common I understand to use the term in Turkey, "cowardly Jew." This describes an unarmed defenseless Jew, one who gets his skullcap knocked off without fighting back I suppose. Now that Israel has an army, it is accused to being too militaristic. Antisemites will be antisemites whatever you do. Yes, I agree although USA did massacre, even genocide Indians, USA acknowledges it; Russia and Spain, France and Britain also, as imperialists did the same (kill non-white populations); Russia, Turkey still deny it. Gaza is not a genocide; however, many of us are criticizing Israel's policy towards Gaza.

What's it like living in a colonized territory of a country over a thousand miles away? You are to Iran like the Falklands are to the UK!

That Turkey has no place as an "objective" mediator in any MidEast peace discussions. Of course, the Turks will scream again as they did in January and February when Israeli tourists decided en masse to cancel their vacations in Turkey.

Excellent - I totally agree. Why om earth should Israel be included in a NATO drill? And why should NATO be perceived as being on the wrong side of the Paletsinian conflict? Anyway, Israeli pilots' experience is limited to bombing civilians, not exactly fighter jocks.

How long would it take turkey to respond if Greece sent rockets into residential and school areas inside Turkey? or fron any other neighbor Please respond

This is weird.

Another megolomaniac Jew who in his omnipotence dreams believes that Israel can redraw the whole ME map just as it pleases.

Gil did you google Israel, Turkey and the poloticts of genocide . or did you google . Never again means everyone [Muzzle Watch] Yes there are isolated cases when Israles speak out against the murder of about 1.5 million Armenians and they even make it a point to use the word genocide. But the money the actions of the government and the powerfull Jewish lobbies are clear. The president of Israel even appologized to Erdogen Saying our position has not changed.

So as long as you don't kill 1 million people, you're a bunch of saints? This is why Israel has such a PR problem - let's be as awful people as we can, so long as there's someone who did worse. You people disgust me.

Bravo Turkey!!! Israel should be isolated and the nations of the world should shun Israel. Israel attacked a defenceless population who had nowhere to run away. That is morally repugnant and against international law. The decent people of the world should not forget what Israel did. And even worse, thousands of people in Gaza now have to face the winter homeless because of the illegal siege.

"As for Turkey they are disgusting, they were very happy to take the help from Israel after the last earthquake. I dont remember any Muslim country offering to help." And do you remember Greece, Italy, Romania, France, Germany offering to help? No you don't? Has it ever happened to you that simply the Israeli media did not report such facts? The Columbia desaster got big media coverage why? You seem quite naive assuming that you get the whole picture from what you read at home.

and getting away with it seems gone!

I thought this was a discussion board about Israel. My undivided and uncritical loyalty are to the United States, and if the United States did what you said to the Native Americans, I am sure the United States had a good reason.

Turkey, Israel. Israel is not without cards in her hand. She has to play it boldly & without fear. The time has come,to openly support Kurdistan's Independence ! Let Israel be the first to offer strong support. There are about 16 nillion Kurds bordering; Syria, Turkey,Iran,& Iraq. A huge country. Scoop them out of those countries & you have a strong viable & independent country with the Kirkuk oil fields giving a boost to their economy. Kurdistan is to break the present Hegenomy of her surrounding countries that keep Kurdistan fragmented among the nations. Kurdistan ! raise your flag & go forth !

Arabia in other words. We do not need another war monger in our midst. We do not need to carry out military manouvers with a state that has just finished---(not quite) pounding Gaza and dropping white phospherous on innocent men women and children. Would any normal human being want to look right or left to find an IDF thug sitting on either side. I think not. Perhaps when Israel civilises itself we might play games with them---but not the war type.I would not offer one drop of Irish blood to protect the Israel of today. Not one drop.

Arabia in other words. We do not need another war monger in our midst. We do not need to carry out military manouvers with a state that has just finished---(not quite) pounding Gaza and dropping white phospherous on innocent men women and children. Would any normal human being want to look right or left to find an IDF thug sitting on either side. I think not. Perhaps when Israel civilises itself we might play games with them---but not the war type.I would not offer one drop of Irish blood to protect the Israel of today. Not one drop.

Well Erdogan If I am asked to respond to your accusations that emphasize the ``Genocide`` part, Then Erdogan I would like to emphasize that Turkey MURDERED more then a MILLION (1,000,000) Armenians less then a century ago, and when I say Murdered I mean Murdered! Armenian Women and Children were loaded on boats and were drowned at sea; Armenians were grouped up and literally burned alive; Children were gassed to death in School buildings! Erdogan that is Murder, that is a Massacre and that is closer to a description of a Genocide! Yes Erdogan Sadly Children and Women died in the last Gaza Operation and we do not deny it, but their death is far from being Murder! We apposed to the Turkish did not target civilians on purpose, We apposed to the Turkish did not load Women and Children on boats and drowned them We apposed to the Turkish did not gather groups civilians and burned them alive, We apposed to the Turkish did not gas to death Children in School buildings, So if you want to call some nation a Murderer you can start by looking in the mirror!

turkey has to choose between going back to middle age with erdogan and islam or to come into europe with a secular country, the one Ataturk creayed . What does the army say?

your social welfare provider and sponsor at the UN annihilated. No comments.

To all the Israeli bashers from Switzerland and our neighbouring countries. Our neighbouring countries are the ones sending rockets over into Israel. The last war with Lebanon was due to rockets flying over. This has started again. Our palestinian neighbours throw rocks from holy sites and into cars travelling,try to bomb our citizens, dig tunnels underground to try and kidnap people such as Gilad Shalit, try to come into Israel with knives to stab our people. Maybe if you used your energy to do something constructive you may get somewhere. As for Turkey they are disgusting, they were very happy to take the help from Israel after the last earthquake. I dont remember any Muslim country offering to help. We sent in rescue teams and doctors not your arab friends. I call on all Israelis not to visit Turkey and not to buy Turkish products. You muslims are jealous of our booming economy and our scientists. Tell me what you have achieved. Absolutely nothing.

Whom do you think you can fool? It is known all over the place that Israel has refrained from discussing the Armenian affair in order not to strain their ties with Turkey. Or else how come that people NOW demand that Israel change its stance?

Do you remember how the Turks attacked the Koerdish in N-Irak, just a few years ago.

Thank G-d for Ghassan! I mean, here I was faced with the laborius task of sifting through an endless amount of daily jokes available on the web to find one decent one for my daily entertainment. And Lo and behold, I come across this joke of a comment from Ghassan. Search over! I can't possibly beat this one for humour quality!

I look to Gaza and the WBank and the refugee camps, ok. There is suffering and this must be fixed. And this will not be over without recognizing Israel. Your mentality in Lebanon, Syria, Iran that Israel invades and destroys for the sake of being evil makes no sense for me. Why should Israel invade Lebanon if it is not attacked? I have been to Israel and I did not find anyone there thak enjoys being the bad guy. The reality is that after 60 years Israel is still seen as cancer that must be extirped from the region. Tell me, cousin, do you think that Brasil would tolerate any katiyusha coming from some group in Paraguay for whatever reason? Why every two or three months Lebanon sends Katiyshas to northern Israel and nobody says anything? Do you think this is right? Lebanon provoke, incite groups agains Israel and then doesnot bear responsibility. Why is so difficult to understand that Isarelis are normal people that just want to have normal lives?

"I wonder how long it will take Israel to get the message." I wonder how long it will take before you figure out that the entire exercise was cancelled because of Turkey's decision. Turkey missed out more than Israel did.

"Your country and the rest of Europe made the same"assist", 1) Europe made made an atonement between Turkey and Armenia a precondition for Turkish EU membership. 2) Europe does not choose its position under the aspect of reward/punishment for Turkish behaviour/misbehaviour, as suggested here for Israel.

Hi Yosi, Well, actually I have re-read my posting and I have not said that the region BELONGS to Turkey. It belonged to it. I am sure you now that from history class. Additionally I was talking of a common vision that we all could develop. Regards

are you concerned?

Turkey is an independent country and it acts in its own interests. Israel is an independent country and it should do the same. Whining about Turks and talking about the dark pages of Turkish history and its current policies won't do Israel any good - it's just a waste of time. It would be better for Israelis to concentrate on their problem and how to solve them.

is right. Acceptance is the way out for all of you. What else is there?

until Erdogan was installed. I would have to say I agree with your assessment.

'until Israel has complied with UN resolutions calling for full withdrawel to 1967 borders, accepted inspector and full nuclear disarmament and offered full cooperation with international courts prosecuting IDF war criminals' your claims. Well Israel wants peace, non interference in it's internal affer (no unwanted immigration), recognition by all Muslim world as Jewish state, end to terror. How doing all you ask for will give Israel that? So fare any concessions lead just to opposite, to new more and more outlandish Arab claims.

Erdogan is, deep in his persona, a militant islamist, has always been, will always be. Yet in order to remain in the top, he has to be nice to some wealthy buch of people some of whom are in appearance islamists too but they care more about money than the islamic cause (Erdogan also became this way a little, but still, I think he still believes in his islamist cause). Although Erdogan hates Israel (not just fanatical zionists but Israel as a whole) his being in power very much depends on his relations with money bosses in Turkey and US government, US being pro-israeli, this puts him in a difficult situation. He is afraid of americans, he is not so much afraid of Turkish army for reasons difficult to explain in two words... So, airforce drill thing is kind of a tiny little pleasure thingy for Erdogan, that is all he can do against Israel.

Israel did not embrace the Armenian Genocide at the hands of Turkey. Rather it took sides with its phoney freind Turkey for financial reasons. This is very strange behaviour from a country made up from a holocaust. So you see when a country develops bad behaviour they will eventually get paid back!

Dear Axel Here is an official newsletter of the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs 2003 http://berlin.mfa.gov.il/mfm/web/main/document.asp?DocumentID=24556&MissionID=88 Sorry it is in German At section 3 regarding the 55th Birthday of the state of Israel If I am allowed to translate part of it into English *** *** ``ISRAEL HAS ON WEDNESDAY her 55th Founding celebration Israel, on Wednesday had her 55th Anniversary of its statehood celebration. The official opening ceremony was held in the presence of President Moshe Katsav and Prime Minister Ariel Sharon on Tuesday evening at the Mount Herzl in Jerusalem. At the ceremony, including fourteen women and men were involved, who participated in last year's anti-terrorist activities in Israel. They included, among others, the 24-year-old Clara Beyler, Neueinwanderin from France and a volunteer of the Magen David Adom (Red David Stern) in Tel Aviv, Yehuda Meshi-Zahav, founder of the rescue organization ZAKA (http://www.zakaisrael.org/ ), Yitzhak Zehavi the Israeli foreign intelligence service Mossad, Yoram Shalit from the domestic intelligence service Shin Beth, Noeme Nalbandian, a survivor of the Armenian Genocide in the Third Generation, and Rami Biton, a private security guard agency in Jerusalem.`` *** *** Do take notice of the Israeli Ministry of Foreign Affairs clearly publishes a newsletter saying that Ms Noeme Nalbandian is a survivor of the Armenian Genocide, of Third Generation. If Israel is denying the Armenian Genocide, or Massacre as you say: it would not get a newsletter saying Ms Noeme Nalbandian is a third Generation to the Armenian Genocide; It would not put an Armenian Israeli who claims she is a third Generation to the Armenian Genocide on the most central platform of the Israeli 55th celebrations where it is known she would announces she is a third Generation to the Armenian Genocide, just as she lights ONE of 12 torches of the Israeli 55th celebrations on stage! By the way Axel, Here is something from the Hebrew University in Jerusalem, http://unixware.mscc.huji.ac.il/~armenia/pdf/2004%20HUJI%20Armenian%20Genocide%20Commemoration.pdf P/S By the way Axel who do you know AB is Jewish!

Its the Turks who had better watch out. They have 2 potential genocides to explain (Armenian and Kurd). Turkey is lucky to be in NATO.Turkey has a better chance of re-establishing the caliphate than it does of joining the EU.- Joe Frazier You are full of crap. Turkey has been a member of NATO since 1952 and fought with American forces in Korea at that time. Turkey was a VERY important NATO member during the cold war. Its military facilities were critical, one of them being the missile tracking station America maintained at Irinclik. It still has an air force base there. It also provided naval facilities on the Mediterranean and the ability to monitor communications in the southern half of Russia. Turkey?s position in NATO is secure. It is NATO that needs Turkey more than Turkey needing NATO. Israel has nothing to offer NATO and does not share a common threat as the NATO countries do. Turkey has a better chance of joining the EU then Israel does. Turkey is connected to Europe. Israel is not even associated with Europe in any way, geography, history or economically. Turkey has much to offer Europe. Israel has nothing.

never in history has islam coexisted peacefully with other religions, sunni and shia cannot even reconcile with each other... your analysis is totally flawed because you do not grasp the basics... usa is king of the infidels because it is the heartbeat and powerbase of the christian west ... the more islamic moslem nations become the more they will hate usa and it has nothing to do with usa foreign policy.

Well Axel, this is the first time I agree with you. Since this is really rare, I thought of letting you know! I find it also really disturbing that Israel has, for reasons of `Realpolitik`, not confronted Turkey with historical facts. Though I must add that even Germany follows a similar line due to the delicate relationship with Turkey. I consider this policy outrageous in both cases.

This is probably a very temporary suspension. I am also sure the Turkish military is not happy with this decision (reason for this unhappiness does not singularly lie with the fact that they do not like islamic govt, there are other factors that I had better not mention). Turkey, not only its army but as a whole, cannot make any drastic international decision which does not fit the israeli or american interests because Turkey, having absolutely no technological know-how and all its economy in a very strange balance all the time, is tied to USA by its umbilical cord which means that it is tied to israel by its umbilical cord too. So this airforce drill thing has no significance on the long term. I am sure israelis know this better than I do.

Your country and the rest of Europe made the same"assist",and you still doing the same in ethnic cleansing in Sudan,Iran,Syria,and China to name some.Europe and the rest are giving Carte-Blanch to the Chinese on attrocities in Tibet,Congo,Sri-Lanka,and China.Why?greed and fear.The second biggest economy and growing fast is the greed.the nuclear weapons is the fear.The west assisted in genocide denial for selfish reasons will mightily enhance their moral standing.

the foreign Minister from Turkey visiting Gaza, and witnessing the carnage wreaked by the same IAF that would be in a joint exercise with the Turkish air force. If Mr Davutoglu was to visit Gaza perhaps he would see the appalling lack of fresh water and adequate sewerage. About the Israel-Turkey water deal...

given israels animosity toward the rest of the world...maybe every nation should impose a 1000 dollar FINE on anyone traveling to israel...

we never attacked jews till they came and made a state on our land...i as a Palestinian support the creation of a Jewish only state only not on Palestinian lands...

the conflict between Turkey and Armenia should be settled between Turkey and Armenia. Israel doesn't have to interfere; its business is between Turkey and Israel. I think Peres understands conflict resolution. I have Armenian relatives and Jewish relatives in Israel; that is why I am interested in these topics. However, does Armenia's fear of Turkey justify its having atomic bombs or does its justify Iran having atomic bombs. I think Israel and the world does not want nuclear proliferation; it is a tool of terrorists. There still are a lot of problems Turkey is facing. Ultra-nationalists are still creating problems for those who speak out against the Armenian genocide who are Turks or Jews. Turkey could mediate between Israel and Gaza even though they are biased in favor of Gaza; so I am not counting them out as a mediator; I just wonder if the reason for cancelation of the drill goes deeper than Gaza.

I really wonder that nobody here on talkback takes that step as what it really is. It's simply a populist move to satisfy growing Islamism within Turkey. After all it's an islamistic party in power there! Anyway, when it comes to hard facts, Turkey has a very poor record concerning minority rights itself. It keeps terrorizing the kurdish minority as well as the few remaining Christians in many different locations. They have killed many more Kurds then Israel has killed Palestinians. The world simply doesn't care so much about it as it cares for the Palestinian question. What matters in terms of membership in the European Union is minority rights and democratic structures and Turkey definitely doesn't qualify. It has also almost lost it's chance to be a mediator in the Arab - Israeli conflict though I must admit, there is many more mediators who are biased.

thank goodness your government has better sense then you do.

The less they know about Israel operatives,the better.Israel should remember that working to close with islamic parties will only have undesired result.Israel cannot consider Turkey as an allied with the islamic party in power.At best,they are"non-enemy",yet.

The US is putting its relationship with Israel before the NATO mission in Afghanistan. I think the European electorate should be made aware of that.

so many Muslims countries attach themselves to the Israeli/Pal issue. How is Turkey like Saudi Arabia, or Iran or Qatar? The only thing I see is a dominant religious/political ideology laced with successful propaganda to keep their own people in line. Jews are a worldwide minority. Why do the Muslims keep persecuting them? Why does anyone think it's OK for 1.57 billion people to agitate for the demise of 7 or 8 million people? It's a sick twisted ideology.

Just because they open the border to Armenia and establishing diplomatic relations with them they think it give them the right to talk about genocide.They should discuse the issue with the Armenians,and the Kurds,and the Arabs.The story history tells,is no love story!

Jews are leaving Turkey. I just want to remind people that Erdogan is an anti-semit leader. This is not new. He was always one. He has a video kneeing down beside one of the Taliban leaders and chatting with him. As being one of the most importont objective for him is converting Turkey to an Islamic Government, he also hates Israel and Jews. On the other hand people of Turkey is not different than him. %75 percent of Turkey is like Erdogan because he got %50 of votes in the last elections. In Turkey when you want to get the people to your side as a politician you just have to tell them how much you hate Israel and US. I was just suprised how he could looked like he was secular and democratic for so many years since he came in charge. Watch this http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=f6dmgJz_2Tk Israel has to take immediate action to Erdogan's Turkey.

For better or for worse the US and Israel are very close allies. What happened here demonstrates that. Thus, if a Moslem country like Turkey or Iran takes on Israel, they will also face Big Brother--the US. I hope the Arab world realizes this basic fact and makes peace with Israel soon.- US CITIZEN You ridiculous statement that Israel and America are close allies is hilarious. Go look up the list of America?s allies during desert Storm, Afghanistan. And Gulf war 2. In Desert Storm you will find 13 Muslim nations in combat with American forces or providing support. You will find Muslim countries with us in our effort in Afghanistan and Gulf war 2 also. You will find our traditional allies, England and others there as well. You will never see Israel as an ally because it is not it is a parasite. It is a political and financial liability. Its land expropriations and occupation of conquered territories makes it a moral embarrassment. You accurately call yourself US citizen. Your nationality and loyalty are Israeli.BTW, Turkey fought with American forces in Korea in 1952 as a member of NATO. It has been an ally longer, and done more to contribute to Americas security than Israel ever will.

No wonder, Ghenghis Khan invented genocide. However, Israel is not committing genocide on the people in Gaza; however, I think there are journalists on Haaretz, like Gideon Levy and Amira Hass, who are criticizing Israel's actions in regard to Gaza, etc. I may agree with them. Telling Peres "you know how to kill"; Erdogan is having problem with the Armenian genocide; to admitting it happened, which it did; and he does not want to confront Turkey's killing fields, when approached with a descendent of a genocide survivor.

In order to foster better ties with Turkey and the Islamic world, Israel has been non committal on the 1915 Turkish genocide against the Armenians. Well, Israel should change its' strategy. It is said that when Hitler realized that the World did nothing after the 1915 genocide, they would also do nothing after his successful one against the Jews. Turkey is a Muslim country. Its aim was to conquer Europe in the Middle ages. It has no business being a member of Nato. If the Europeans are so stupid as to let them in (I am not too sure they are bright enough to deny them entry), then they would not have learnt the lesson of the Trojan Horse.

Turkey is hardly in a position to pose as an exemplar of "human values"; ask the Kurds.

Right now, they signed the protocols to open the borders with Armenia; but Armenia did not, and should not in my opinion, give up N-K. The trouble between Peres and Erdogan was not between Peres and Erdogan, but btw Turkey and Armenia, when a reporter who is a descendant of an Armenian genocide, touched Erdogan and asked him a question; and Erdogan to contain his temper walked away. Why is this still not understood? Turkey is antisemitic; that may be the reason for the cancelation of the drill; in that case keeping Turkey as an ally is a hard thing. Also, Turkey I think does not want Israel or any Jew to take the side of the Armenians and so it may say the problem is Gaza; but it may be more than that; it may be having problems getting its way in the world; when many people are opposed to their entry to the EU. I think the Turks and the Armenians who are friends of the Jews know that Turkey is also antisemitic. Turkey right now has a long way to go towards being democratic.

"In reprisal, Israel should immediately stop helping Turkey deny the Armenian genocide" Great idea. Admitting that Israel assisted in genocide denial for selfish reasons will mightily enhance their moral standing ...

This is not surprising because the Turkey government is dominated by Islamist-Jihadists.

A secular country ruled by an islamic oriented party.That is the reason the EU is and will deney the Turks a membership.The islamization is frightening the Europeans.That is why Turkey is shifting their foreign policy,they have lost hope about the EU,and that is pushing them to look to the east and south.The further they get from Europe.the further they will get from secularism.

Time to call in The Israel Lobby! Commentary will run feature articles explaining that Turkey always admired Hitler. The other neocons will publish op-eds in the Wall St Journal linking Attaturk to Hitler, and Turkey to 9/11. Dershowitz will launch a jihad against anyone teaching Turkish studies. Turkey will Bow2Israel!

the zio state would love to have a 'special relationship' with nato where they fight to make the world safe for zionism...and smae whth EU where they get special deals but don't have to conform any rules esp. human rights...the zio-state used to have a 'special relationship with Turkey...but no more...Turkey request the zio state respect human values...zionist respond w/more hate

It takes one to know one!

-ts ,freely admitting they let wounded Afghanis die in military hospitals run by NATO in Afghanistan? Besides prosecuting the doctors ,Denmark must be subjugated to international inspections,to assure the good Danish doctors don't practice euthanasia on undesibles in country's hospitals. Your Leftie Enhedsliste party should be all for it ,huh Jens?

You have the right stuff for the new EU. All boycotts of anything Israeli--especially their military symbols are welcomed and necessary---whenever and wherever.We all know the why.

Just keep telling yourself: We are better than the countries around us. We can rely on our friends, who view the world as we do. The boycott will never amount to much, and even if it does, our goods are so popular, and better than the rest, that it will never hurt us. I'm sure it will work much better for Israel than it did for South Africa.

"I suggest Israeli and Jewish businesses boycott visiting and doing business with Turkey" Great idea. And that woud hurt whom? The Turks who can easily find other suppliers, or the Israeli companies who lose an important customer? Another shot in the foot idea.

Well it looks like Erdogan is finally showing his true colors. When will the U.S. and especially Israel realize that most if not all Islamic countries are not the friends they portray themselves to be. All new military technology that is given to them will most likely be used against you in the future. When will you wake up and see the truth. The Muslim religion calls for our destruction, it?s in the Koran. Let this be a warning to NATO.

You guys never forget Turkey. The father and creator of Israel Ben Gorion raised and educated in Turkey and Turkey helped him for the creation of the Jewsih State. I don't think Ben Gorion accepts what Israel is doing now to the Palestinians.

.... stop helping Turkey deny the Armenian genocide. No air force drill, no help with Turkey's Armenian genocide denial! Fair is fair! No denial for you, Turkey!

Here is a reality check for you: The countries that Turkey used to rule were, compared with Europe, backward. Since Turkey has not been ruling them, they are still backward. Take away the western technology and culture that Ataturk introduced, Turkey would be indistinguishable from the rest of the Muslim world - it would be backward. Ever wondered why mass migration is towards Europe and not the other way around? Here is a litmus test - don't import from non-muslim countries with petrol exports. Well? where are you going to buy from? Wake up to the real world, there is no such Muslim country as an advanced one.

BDS of Israel is the best way to end this illegal occupation! BDS in all forms and manners!!

NATO should follow through and make make a ban towards any contacts with Israel until Israel has complied with UN resolutions calling for full withdrawel to 1967 borders, accepted inspector and full nuclear disarmament and offered full cooperation with international courts prosecuting IDF war criminals.

We were carrying 'genocide' in gaza?.Mr.Erdogan,we, and the world at large know that arabs have been 'genociding' each other since time immemorial.We also know that the sorry episode with Armenia is 'only' a ever changing page in the annals of history. By removing a few 'zionist air crafts' from your territory,you must be expressing a 'mea culpa'.It conveys to the muslim world your eternal friendship and brotherhood.

"But ties have cooled sharply over Turkish Prime Minister Recep Tayyip Erdogan's sharp criticism of Israel's winter war in the Gaza Strip, especially in light of a televised fracas between President Shimon Peres and Erdogan at the Davos Conference this past January." "Ties" are not Israel's view of Turkey, they go both ways. Obviously the ties started cooling before this, as Turkey lost interest in supporting Israel, or Erdogan wouldn't have criticized Peres in the first place.

It was only a matter a time before Turkey would turn against Israel. Arab & Muslim countries do not understand what objectivity is and anytime war is engaged against a fellow muslim country or terrorist group by a non muslim the non muslim side is always the evil one. Turkey is a backward repressive country that committed genocide against the Armenians that they will not even acknowledge that yet they want to preach to Israel. I suggest Israeli and Jewish businesses boycott visiting and doing business with Turkey. Also everything should be done to keep Turkey out of the EU until they start behaving like a true democracy not a virtual one.