Israel envoy: UN Human Rights Council betrayed its own values

You try to compare the US actions in Iraq and Afghanistan with those of Israel. Absolute nonsense. I oppose the war in Iraq and am horrified by the number of civlians killed in both wars. In Iraq, however, the vast majority of civilian deaths have resulted from sectarian violence, not US military action. The Afghan civilian death numbers appall me. I would support an UN investigation. But, still, there is no comparison: Key Differences: The US: 1. has no plans of taking land or colonializing either Iraq or Afghanistan. 2. has never deliberately targeted civilians, as opposed to Israel per Goldstone. 3. has never regarded all Afghans or Iraqis as the enemy as Israel does (look at talkbacks re Gazans); it has focused on creating & respecting democratic rule. 4. has no racial or religious motivation nor any intent of altering the demographics of either region. 5. does not drain either country of natural resources as Israel does water from the WB.

7,000 rockets ? every one intended to kill as many people as possible ? then contemptuously dismissed repeated warnings from Israel to stop or face the consequences. The rockets were war crimes and ought to have been universally condemned as such. While new rockets hit Israel over many months there was no rush by the world's moralisers ? including Britain ? to censure Hamas, no urgency as there was in "world opinion" when Israel finally responded. Then Israel was immediately accused of a "disproportionate" response without anyone thinking: "What is a 'proportionate' attack against an enemy dedicated to exterminating your people?" A dedication to exterminating all of his? Israel risked its own forces by imposing unprecedented restraint. In testimony volunteered to the human rights council (and ignored), Colonel Richard Kemp, a British commander in Bosnia and Afghanistan, stated: "The Israeli Defence Forces did more to safeguard the rights of civilians in a combat zone than any other army in the history of warfare." The "collateral damage" was less than the Nato allies inflicted on the Bosnians in the conflict with Yugoslavia. No doubt there were blunders. A defensive war is still a war with all its suffering and destruction. But Hamas compounded its original war crime with another. It held its own people hostage. It used them as human shields. It regarded every (accidental) death as another bullet in the propaganda war. The Goldstone report won the gold standard of moral equivalence between the killer and the victim. Now Britain wins the silver. Who's cheering?

The truth is he was suckered into lending his good name to a half-baked report ? read its 575 pages and see. He said that, as a Jew himself, he was surprised to be invited. He shouldn't have been, and should never have accepted leadership of a commission whose terms of reference were designed to excuse the aggressor, Hamas, and punish the defender, Israel. The council's decision was to "dispatch an urgent, independent, international fact-finding mission ? to investigate all violations of international human rights law and international humanitarian law by the occupying power, Israel, against the Palestinian people throughout the Occupied Palestinian Territory, particularly in the occupied Gaza Strip, due to the current aggression, and [it] calls upon Israel not to obstruct the process of investigation and to fully co-operate with the mission". Israel is not an "occupying power" in Gaza in either fact or international law. Four years ago it voluntarily pulled out all its soldiers and uprooted all its settlers. Here was a wonderful chance for Gaza to be the building block of a Palestinian state, and for Hamas to do what the Israelis did ? take a piece of land and build a model state. They didn't. Instead of helping the desperate Palestinians, they conducted a religious war. In signing on for the UN mission ? with others who had already condemned Israel ? it seems to have escaped the judge that Hamas is committed not just to fight Israeli soldiers; it is a terrorist organisation hellbent on the destruction of the state of Israel. The terms of reference he accepted validate the torment of Israeli civilians. Hamas launched 7,000 rockets ? every one intended to kill as many people as possible ? then contemptuously dismissed repeated warnings from Israel to stop or face the consequences.

if i have committed fifteen crimes; are my rights being violated if i'm charged on all fifteen counts? is it unjust that i am? am i being singled out? picked on? discriminated against? and what gabriela, directs attention toward me? is it the institution who seeks to hold me accountable; or is it the crimes that I have committed? for 60 years, israel has constantly drawn focus upon itself by its activities and its blatant disregard of international mandates for justice and human rights... including the one that spawned its birth.

Guardian, Tuesday 20 October 2009 Aren't the British sickened by the moral confusions of their government? First, we have the weasel words to justify the unjustifiable release of the Lockerbie bomber. Now we have the sickening spectacle of Britain failing to stand by Israel, the only democracy with an independent judiciary in the entire region. It was to be expected that the usual suspects of the risible UN human rights council would be eager to condemn Israel for war crimes in defending itself against Hamas. If you treat people as the Chinese do the Tibetans or Uighurs ("Off with their heads!"); or as the Russians eliminate Chechen dissidents; or as the Nigerians tolerate extrajudicial killings, the evictions of 800,000, rape and cruel treatment of prisoners; or as the Egyptians get prisoners to talk (torture) and the Saudis suppress half their population ? well, go through the practices of all 25 states voting to refer Israel to the security council for the Gaza war, and you have to acknowledge they know a lot about the abuse of humans. Anything to divert attention from their own atrocities. Only six refused to join the farce ? Hungary, Italy, Netherlands, Slovakia, Ukraine and the US. Britain didn't just abstain. It shirked voting at all (along with those beacons of civilisation Angola, Kyrgyzstan, Madagascar, and surprisingly, France). Of course, here the fig leaf for being scared of dictators, especially oil-rich abusers, is the report by the South African judge Richard Goldstone. Poor Judge Goldstone now regrets how his good name has been used to single out Israel. The Swiss paper Le Temps reports him complaining that "This draft [UN human rights council] resolution saddens me ? there is not a single phrase condemning Hamas as we have done in the report. I hope the council can modify the text." Fat hope. ------

The UN is the most misguided institution that America ever produced. It is a shame that it continues in its current form. Maybe it would be better to just scrap it all and start over. The League of Nations went the way of the Dodo, and so should the UN.

if i have committed fifteen crimes; are my rights being violated if i'm charged on all fifteen counts? is it unjust that i am? am i being singled out? picked on? discriminated against? and what gabriela, directs attention toward me? is it the institution who seeks to hold me accountable; or is it the crimes that I have committed? for 60 years, israel has constantly drawn focus upon itself by its activities and its blatant disregard of international mandates for justice and human rights... including the one that spawned its birth.

Do you really expect countries to speak out against ountries that supply oil. Moses took the wrong turn.

for everyone to see http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vHDyuSTneA&NR=1

Here is something for the UN Human Rights Council To Grasp, Here is something for The guru of the blinded people Gideon Levy And his blinded disciples Natallie Dorson Dutch Colin Right Labhras BBSNews Clickfool Maureen Ann Silvienne Johnboy And all the other peole who blind themselves with hate to Israel Here is footage to all you readers who claim they love the Arab ``Palestinians`` http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2vHDyuSTneA&NR=1

...Allies in the West: Target and kill as many Israeli civilians as possible. If Israel does not respond effectively, they hope to convince the Israeli population that the very reason for Israel's existence (a haven for the Jewish people) is just a mirage .... Alternatively, if Israel does react effectively, then they hope to vilify it's leaders, it's people and they hope to turn Israel into a pariah state. In other words: 'Heads' they win, 'Tails', Israel loses, or so they hope. But they are very wrong because they will NOT win and Israel will NOT lose ...

But why let honesty stand in the way of Israel bashing?

Richard Goldstone proved it when he found BOTH sides to have committed war crimes and possible crimes against humanity. Israel must now atone for its sins and it is about time. Sanctions for North Korea, Zimbabwe, Iran, AND Israel. Israel is no different than they. Period. If Israel did the crimes, so stop the whines.

Israel is completly right in pointing out who is the prosecutor. A bunch of crimnal states such as Russia, China , Iran, Lybia...etc. etc Israel has not done even half of what Russia has done in Chechenya and half of what U States has done in Iraq and will do in Afghanistan Attempting to indict Israel is absolutely nonesense and won't pass through the Security Council.

You are claiming in a nutshell that the UNHRC, and therefore the report, are biased, because there is a natural bias against Israel. The reality is that people, whether on the UNHRC or not, despise the bombing and killing of civilians by armies, whether in Guernica, Srebenica or Gaza. There can be few who were not appalled by Israeli actions in Cast Lead, particularly as the inconvenient details of civilian deaths emerged. Instead of saying 'biased', what about saying extremely disappointed and repulsed by Israel's conduct? You know, cause and effect. The Goldstone report looks pretty objective and fact-based and blames both sides. The major disparity in deaths - 1,400 on one side against 13 on the other - inevitably led to an in-depth examination of Israel's motives and methods. Israel had the chance to put forward evidence to disprove the allegations but failed to do so, so it could claim 'bias' from day one. It is just semantics that will be blown away in any court.

If as you think the arabs(palis)are so badly treated and suffering enormously how come they look well fed,have all the amenities,work hard (but_ not_ to_ improve_ their_ life_ (because Israel helps that side of it the ingrates)! How do you justify their multiple weaponry construction to enable them and kill innocent Jewish civilians.I would really like an answer to this question.I have yet to see a starving gazan(terrorists all anyway)lacking anything for their daily life. The whiners here who accuse Israel should stop reading the PULP FICTION from the arab medias and videos and ENGAGE BRAIN BEFORE Spouting lies and nonsense.

CastLead in Gaza became your Srebrenica, - you have no excuses. You cannot justify such actions. USA's blind support will come to an end sooner or later, - Israel have been mislead by warriors and it's friends. Grasp Goldstone as a chance for Israel's future. Sure it will hurt, but you have no choice!

good example for you: romans killed my brother jesus and you and yours say Jews did it. All so called Israeli " transgressions" are yours projected into hated by you Nation.

That is possible Petra, but I am reluctant to think that the Israeli population is behind the abuse of Palestinians and others. (I'm sure I don't need to point out that my original example was a metaphore, but I'll do that anyway in case there is someone out there who was confused)

The problem with the UNHRC is that it is composed of many countries whose Human Rights records are abominable, Russia, China, Saudi Arabia, Pakistan etc. How can these countries have the Hutzpah to judge human rights against a country with a free press and an independent judiciary. Let the innocent cast the first stone.

"guided not by human rights but by politics". 2.UNHRC prostituted the Goldstone report! 3.The investigation set out to condemn Israel and pronounced Israels guilty of war crimes BEFORE the investigation. 4.They chose investigators who had announced their prejudices prior to investigation. Goldstone and Chitkin had both condemned Israel publicly PRIOR to investigation 5.A systematic problem is the report?s extensive use of testimony from unreliable Palestinian ?human rights? organizations. For example, the report cites casualty figures from the Palestinian Center for Human Rights (PCHR). Among PCHR?s civilian casualties are two leading Hamas military figures, Nizar Rayan and Siad Siam. Numerous other Palestinian fatalities listed by PCHR as civilians were also listed on Hamas websites as martyrs and members of its militias. There is plenty more but care to refute any of the above for starters as you are so keen to cry demoniser or do you just want to stick with name calling ??

Which other 'democracy' has been occupying and oppressing a neighbour for 40 years, stealing its land, illegally settling its territory, imprisoning its citizens without trial, stealing its water, committing war crimes against its citizens and breaching countless UN resolutions? Israel behaves as badly or worse than Burma on civil rights, Serbia on ethnic aggression or N Korea with its ridiculous propaganda. Fact is that Israel is ardently pursuing a 19th Century agenda of religious, racist, nationalist domination and territorial expansion and point blank refuses to accept there is anything wrong with it. Then they whinge with faux indignance when the rest of the world, via UN resolutions, shows its disapproval and contempt. What did they expect, prizes and flowers?

Some parents refuse their responsibility to teach theri children to study, respect their teachers and actually learn in school, not to be a bully. Perhaps you're one of those parents?Voilent, and teaching your kid by example?

Unfortunately, everyone from hitlerite Barry Soetoro on down is too busy looking for fault with dem Jooz....

you give the stats for the membership of the UNGA, then stats (and please could you put the actual numbers up next time) for the UNSC resolutions. And seeing as that body is dominated by non-Muslim countries (and is set up so that no Muslim country has the same clout as the non-Muslim ones) your argument lacks any merit.

Israel has succumbed to materialism, expansionism and resource confiscation at whatever cost to its Jewish roots and the Palestinian people. No amount of bluster can hide that disease.

"No genocide or even massacre has ever taken place during the past 60 years against the Palestinians. " John that would very much depend on your definition of the word massacre. I can think of several massacres of Palestinians that involved Israeli armed forces within your 60 year timescale. You need to do a bit of research my friend.

no more mosques in the West until a church and synagogue are built in Mecca or Medina. Let's see the tolerance of the Muslim States. If Quran is allowed in the West and Israel, Bibles and Torah in the Muslim States. No more Islamic schools in the West and Israel until Christian and Hebrew schools, libraries are established and welcome in Muslim countries, particularly Saudi Arabia. No more persecution of other religions with torture and death and Muslim apostasy is delegitimized. There, that should do it. Waiting.........

I'm always rather wary of those that use statistics to make their case, maybe because as a small boy I was taught two adages - 'figures never lie but liars often figure' and 'why bother to lie with statistics when you can lie without them' - not sure which fits with your agenda, but either way statistics are no defense against the accusations against Israel listed in the Goldstone report!

Council about the Goldstone report. http://www.unwatch.org/site/apps/nlnet/content2.aspx?c=bdKKISNqEmG&b=1313923&ct=7536409

everything in this world is logical.....

Think about this: almost one-third of UN member nations are either Arab and/or Muslim nations or countries that rely on oil from some of those nations. More than one-half of ALL UN Security Council resolutions are aimed at Israel. Consider the statistics!!

Tommy, the use of military force in Gaza did show the ugly truth about any modern war fought today. However, to state that Israel caused a holocaust or genocide is totally and thoroughly inappropriate and off the mark entirely. The use of such language to describe the death of collateral damage (civilians caught up in the fight to extricate terrorists who were cowardly using them as shields (like your IRA did as well) is misplaced to say the least. No genocide or even massacre has ever taken place during the past 60 years against the Palestinians. That's the fallacy of pro-Palestinian propaganda that you poor Europeans have bought into by anti-Semitic Left wingers and organizations like Amnesty International or Human Rights Watch. Not to say Israel is perfect. But as one British Colonel rightly testified, no other defense force in the world has taken such strategic and tactical care to limit military actions so as to prevent loss of civilian life. Your knowledge is lacking.

If you don't like the UNHCR (and just about every other human rights group there is) criticising you for abuses, stop doing the abusing. And, if you don't want to be cited more often than China (and I'd be curious to see if the statistics actually backed up that claim, so many similar claims turn out to not have a factual basis), quit trying to promote yourself as the perfect society. It is like the 'faith and fidelity' politicians claiming that the attention their affairs get is a sign of bias against them, rather than the result of their actions and claims.

israel is always faced with the "have you stopped beating your wife syndrome"? whatever the answer is israel is always wrong ! if 60 years of the uns israel bashing is taken into account a country that is 0.001% of this world gets a50% attention for imagined wrongs against arab/muslim terrorist activity which has been unceasing since 1920.

T Akiv, We in the west used to belive Israel claims against the PLO. Throught the power of television and the internet We have seen Israel behaving very cruelly towards the people of Gaza. To listen to the Israeli goverments spokemen you would think that this was a fair war in fact it was a holocaust against the whole of the civilian population of the Gaza. This was a one sided war with Israel behaving appaulling. Israel forgets throught television we can judge for ourselves. Look up the IDF on U Tube and you will see a blindfoled man being shot the this so called moral army you can also see the IDF using civilians as humam shields and beating up chrildren and women. YOu also see the IDF shooting gases at Palestinians protesters but turn a blind eye to the settlers.

Intra-Arab tribal and political conflicts and Arab state oppression has and will kill more Arabs and Muslims in a single day, than in all the defensive and pre-emptory conflicts fought by Israel in the last 60 years. Give us all a break. Please!

Akiva, #3, reiterates the humbug used by too many of my fellow Israelis when, head in sand, they seek to ignore the reprehensible actions and attitudes of the right-wing no-nothings now in power. As Jews and Israelis, our responsibility and necessary privilege is to police our own actions, not the actions of the hard-hats and red-necks of other nations. If in this task, we are joined by by others not minding the actions of their own governments, it is just too bad. Jewish ethics, morals and history compel us, or should compel us to protest the humiliation and pain caused by our government, some of our soldiers, and a large percentage of the settlers to Palestinian civilians.

What country "through out the Arab World...throughout China...throughout Africa...." holds more than ONE MILLION people confined in an open air prison, with inadequate food, inadequate clean water, inadequate medical care, etc., etc., etc.? This happens NOWHERE except Israel. And yet you say Israel is one of the "most humane" countries in the world? No, Akiva, it is you who lives in an upside-down world. Where many hundreds of dead civilians in Gaza are evidence of "humane" conduct of the IDF. Where tens of thousands of demolished Palestinian homes are an indication of "humane" government policy. Where the systematic expulsion of the indigenous people from their ancestral lands shows the "humane" nature of the Israeli government. These are not isolated, anomalous incidents, but have happened continuously for DECADES. You are either delusional or willfully ignorant if you truly believe Israel is such a humane and enlightened country.

Unfortunately the UN lost its values a long time ago....For the sake of world peace, it is time to replace this organization of Useless Nations with one that is represented by civilized and democratic countries.

What The U.N.? That degenerate organization ? From now on,call it,"Sing-Sing" Why ? Because from every window a jail-bird pops out!

That's a funny one..............have a great weekend.

really? Maybe you need to go and take a second look...

Let's see what you have to say after a band of Israeli settlers move into your home, kick you out, and tell the world that you're to blame. Would you still be singing the praises of Israel? Because the above scenario is not a possibility for you, you choose to go on believing the democracy myth. You are a woman with no empathy.

Akiva, Don't you understand that you are making Colin's point for him? Yes, there are human rights abuses in China, and many other places, but your pointing it out in an effort to argue that there must be some prejudice against Israel is entirely unconvincing and *exactly* what Colin is saying- this does not help your argument at all. It makes you seem paranoid. The fact will always be that a criminal is a criminal, whether a murderer in court or a rogue nation- if the defendant wants to claim innocence, it has to prove it in a court of law, not keep crying about why it is accused in the first place and pointing out that there are other criminals. A convicted murderer can cry all it wants to the judge about "prejudice", "discrimination",etc. but this will never make the accusations of crimes committed go away. This will only happen in the minds of everyone when the alleged criminal answers honsetly all of the charges. And the crying itself makes the accused appear more guilty.

This disinformation you peddle is the root of the problem. Grow up boys. Stop listening to your islamic masters. Islam is a very young religion (no matter what they try to claim). It has no relationship to Judaism except the islam has tried to steal the religion of Israel and make it their own. One day they will find the fruit of this action is very bitter indeed. Israel is a small and very generous country. The G_d of Israel takes care of her.

Akiva; If Israel is so humane, why are they not letting in any medical supplies? Why are they not letting in any basic school supplies? I think you need to pack up and leave the US. Go back to your precious israel and do your complaining from there.

1. Would the Israeli Arab citizen agree that Israel is such a humane democratic country to them? 2. Are the charges made in fact true? If so, why is it wrong to criticize Israel for committing them?

displacement of Palestinians from their homes?

your analogy does not convince anyone.israel does what it needs to do to protect its citizens .i.e the WALL WHICH ANGERS SO MANY PEOPLE IS PROVEN TO be very effective against suicise bombers,the road blocs do not let easy hit and run attacks,intelegence gathering and a heavy price for acts of violence are all effective tools of self defence.So collin embezzelment has got nothing to do with the conflict at hand, and your remark is at best ignorant if not stipid.

even if all the cynics in this world hold the opinion you hold israelis will still have the right to respond to acts of violance against their young country.this right do not come from the UN or the world cynics,it comes from a natural biological and moral duty to defend the jewish nations national home.And you and the " humanitarian" left will keep on screeming and hating but committed israelis will make sure that your cries and speeches will stay vocal and never become and phisycal or they will act to defend themselves and the jews from prosicution all over the world.the history of the last century gives israel two options: live among you the cynics and every time times are hard to be blamed for them, or take their own destiny in their hand which is exactly what they do.But some people want israelis and jews weak and dependable and cant stomack a nation that will not turn the other cheeck.Mr cynic did you adress darfur masacare that goes on how about the tibetians, kurds, tammils,

in Afghanistan and Pakistan. It's very comfy to focus on Israel,whose only guilt is being too soft on pals.

Colin and Cynic, you are living in an upside-down world. The reality is that Israel is one of the most humane, democratic countries in the world...even for its Arab citizens. Where is your self-righteous anger at the daily human abuses that take places through out the Arab World...throughout China...throughout Africa....?

Colin, unlike your name, you are very wrong. Today about 10 US senators said that if,according to the Goldstone Report Israel was guilty of war crimes, then so was the US whenever civilians were killed in Afghanistan and Iraq. Its impossible to fight a was without civilian casualties. Never happened before and never will happen. If you kill someone in self defense, thats hardly equivalent to embezzlement.

Your logic is perverse. Only a fool would state that the UNHRC has any credibility. They have consistently shown that they are more concerned with political issues ie the stigmatizing of Israel than in protecting the human rights abuses in other countries.

The UN isn't protecting human rights by consistently singling out one group, while ignoring crimes of others. This is why Israel won't listen to them. Why would they listen to a bunch of hyppocrites obsessed with Jew-bashing?

Name one country who is not guilty of this! I cant? Justice is only Just if its put on everyone, not just the jews...

There must be interesting things going on in Shalev's mind... I don't quite follow the logic which dictates that the more condemnations a country receives the more it is being discriminated against. If my son consistently gets sent home for school for fighting and never gets good grades does that mean that the whole school is out to get him? Of course it is possible that my boy is being discriminated against and that all the teachers hate him. But the very obvious explanation is that he's not exactly a great student and that he's not going to get straight As even if I move him to another school. Thankfully there's always home-schooling, right?

Not sure how anyone from Israel has the nerve to dictate to the rest of the world on human rights abuse when Israel itself is one of the prime abusers, resulting in the UN human rights council endorsement of the Goldstone report!

"...more than half of the council's meetings have dealt with condemning Israel for one reason or another." Maybe that because more than half of human rights abuses and other crimes worldwide occur in Israel.

Not sure how anyone from Israel has the nerve to dictate to the rest of the world on human rights abuse when Israel itself is one of the prime abusers, resulting in the UN human rights council endorsement of the Goldstone report!

...unfortunately for Israel. She's in the position of guy caught for embezzlement. He keeps complaining about all the other criminals who are getting away with murder (literally). It's not a very convincing argument.

from HR discrimination, Goldstone report, UNIFIL chief in Leb, NUKE Iran, PALS Organ harvest; a lots of things you have to bear, i understand your worries, is not better to make some change in your existence on this earth.

UN=United Nudniks.

Israel has no means to refute the report. It's all splutter and platitudes with the same old slogans that are trotted out against any and all critics of an occupational government that continues to steal land and commit human rights violations.Made Secretary, who is really listening? Your propaganda and slander campaign isnt working.

Where is any report that would show how Goldston was wrong on accusations he made??? Israel is so full of it. It makes no sense. Goldstone is a Jew and actually sits on Hebrew University board. Oh, yeh, he hates Israel...

Get your facts straight

any other country." Hey, that's what you get if you live in a glass house. You can't hide what you are doing. So, Israel, stop bellyaching, clean up your act and others will react accordingly.