Israel and Vatican deadlocked in talks over Holy Land sites
Israeli negotiators dig in over Catholic demands for return of 'lost' church property.
By Reuters Tags: Pope Benedict Israel news VaticanIsrael and the Vatican are struggling to end a long-running dispute over the ownership and tax status of religious sites in Israel, including a place revered as the location of Jesus' last supper.
Churches acquired large amounts of land around Jerusalem as the Ottoman empire went into decline from the early 19th century, long before Israel was founded in 1948.
Now the Vatican seeks recognition of its "historic rights" to tax exemption, and to set rules for protection of religious sites and the return of what it calls lost church property.
Negotiators met this month but failed to reach a deal and the talks remain deadlocked, although the sides have agreed to meet again in February, with the next round of high-level talks scheduled for May.
The stalemate comes as Israel's relations with the Vatican are already strained. A visit to a synagogue in Rome by Pope Benedict on Sunday caused some controversy and his decision last month to move wartime pope Pius XII a step closer to sainthood angered Jews who believe Pius failed to speak out against the Holocaust.
Though only a handful of sites are being discussed, the outcome may have an impact on future transactions, particularly in Jerusalem, where religious institutions are huge land owners.
An Israeli official familiar with the talks said Israel was worried that any broad concessions would set a precedent.
Today, many official Israeli buildings sit on leased church land. But agreement on the legal status of these ancient properties has evaded governments and popes for decades.
"The new state naturally inherited the obligation to respect and observe those rights created before it came into being," said a Catholic expert on church relations with Israel, who spoke on condition of anonymity.
The Vatican was looking to safeguard its rights under international treaties and customs that date back before the establishment of the modern Jewish state, the jurist said.
One Jerusalem building in dispute stands in a narrow alley outside the Old City walls. Its second storey is the Cenacle where Christians believe Jesus held the last supper. Jewish tradition says the floor below is the burial site of King David.
Deputy Foreign Minister Danny Ayalon, head of the Israeli negotiating team, says the Vatican would like control of the Crusader-era building, which was a stop on Pope Benedict's tour of Israel and the West Bank last year.
Israel wants to keep the 'status quo' on ownership, ensuring its sovereignty, while reaching a settlement over debts accrued over years of taxes owed to the state by the church.
"We are more than willing to assure the church that we will keep all the properties intact and protected," said Ayalon. "It's really a matter of trust and relationship ... and I believe this is main issue," he said.
Israel has guaranteed the Church open worship in the Cenacle and would consider offering it more involvement, but Ayalon said ownership was not up for discussion.
Israel reserves the right to appropriate property especially to build infrastructure for public safety, while guaranteeing it won't harm the holy sites. The Vatican wants to prevent this.
The Church wishes for safeguards against future " 'taking' by the state of her property," the Catholic expert said, as well as "the restitution of certain properties 'taken' in the past".
The reference, he said, was to a church that had been razed in the northern Israeli city of Caesaria in the 1950s.
Neither side would give details of the negotiations -- such as the amount of tax involved or when a deal might be concluded.
"The sooner the better," said Ayalon.
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it seams to that where ever they (The Catholics)are in any country specially in Poland they have demands for the church property with some history that it belong to them ,with out any p ruff, and then when they get it, they sell it for top price, never enough money, mean while the pure Christians suffer all over the world while Vatican swims in money.They should appreciate that is in Israel not in Pal hands, other ways it would be long time in ruins or burn down by Muslims.
Israel and the Vatican need to resolve property matters in the most harmonious manner possible. Jews and Christians have never needed each other in the Holy Land as much as they do now.
Dear Alimony, as a Caholic, I endourse your claim. All must be given back among our religions. All must be forgiven. We must fight together for a better world. Our God is unique. Luiz Felipe Haddad.
The Vatican has a lot of guts asking Israel for anything considering their less than stellar human rights record over centuries. The Israelites were given their property rights in the Torah, where did the Vatican get theirs? art
So the Church wants what it refers to as "Catholic property" returned. How about first settling an older issue, namely, the return to Jews all the Jewish properties that the Church took from the Jews in the last 1,000 years or so, give or take a couple of centuries? THEN maybe we can talk.........
One of the most influential statements in forming US social policy is the power to tax is the power to destroy. Any government with the power to make an institution demonstrate it benefits public interest TO THE GOVERNMENT'S SATISFACTION can destroy it. That's why in the US the presumption is that the institution is of benefit, and the government has to prove otherwise before it can act.
be on the table for expropriation. Frankly, there are many far more important insitutions which should also be subject to the law of expropriation. As to tax exemption, once religious insitutions are able to demonstrate objectively that they benefit the public interest, then there will be room to talk about a tax exemption. In the meantime, I say pay up. It is intolerable that some of these institutions have riches socked away that are not being productively utilized to protect the public interest. That is fine for taxpayers but not fine for tax exempt institutions who argue that they advance public welfare.
tomb of Ezekial and Jordan who illegally took the west bank in 48 only to lose it in 67 demanding the return of the Jewish dead Sea Scrolls and the desecration of King cyrus tomb in Iran, the great humanitarian zorastrian king, by Islamists, the church should better work with Israel who will perserve sites. The land which for 3000 years was Israel's and which was first given back to Israel by world power britain at the demise of the Ottoman empire who then turned around and gave a piece of land to a foreign Saudi clan as a reward for help in defeating the Ottomans, which became a new country Jordan. Whoever owns those properties should trust Israel to perserve sites of other religions which arab regimes do not!1
Deals that Vatican did with the Turks can be declared null & void now this is part of Israel.. Independent states have the right to change laws that once applied under different rulers. Most laws that were introduced by the British & Turks when Israel was founded those laws were changed. Its the same with the land if Israel wants to declare that previous agreements are no longer going to stand or even say that the church must return certain lands to the state that is its right. The Pope doesn't rule Israel and we can say pay taxes or we take the land back. Its also not right generally that the various churches should own a huge part of Jerusalem. It should be returned to the state which would ne legal if the government made it legal and it should be used to build affordable housing which Jerusalem has a huge shortage of. Time for Israel to lay down the law to Vatican who act like an international corporation rather than head of a faith.