Iranian president calls for 'impartial' probe of Holocaust

I love this guy. AHmaddinejad, i he cant do it nobody can, and he will...

This is for the kind information of potobac: My intention is sincere and genuine. If I at all get a chance to carry out my study of the Holocaust, it will never ever be self-serving. but it may serve all of us, all Adam and Eve's chill'un. Thanks for the corrective.

It says Jesus wept for the Temple and for Jerusalem itself because he knew they both would fall.

If done on a serious level, that could be an interesting field to work on, and (very important in today's world) it probably would not be too hard to get funding. However, it would be important to avoid the danger of the research becoming self-serving. There is already too much use of the holocaust to beat people up with to get special treatment. I refer to statements like: "As someone who lost family members in the holocaust", "As a descendant of holocaust survivors", and even "As a Jew remembering the death of Jews in the holocaust".

Thank you very much, dear Marco. I have always felt that the Jews have always been subject to groundless prejudice and misjudgement. If we are to live peacefully, this must be corrected. With that end in view, I am also trying to stdy the Holocaust and other related issues. if you please come up with any sort of help, that would be a joy. Again, please could we be friends...

Dear friends over the world! I wish to study Holocaust at the Master's level. My proposed study will focus the traumatic effects of the Holocaust on the minds of the victims of it, who still survive; and, what hangovers it has pushed down from generation to generation. Then, I will explore how mankind can learn from the hellish experience of the Holocaust in today's world. Please any could help me with suggestions on reading materials ...Any help from the Jews themselves would the most welcome.

First, I am a white Christian. As to aryan, my family has been in America for quite a while, so my ethnic heritage is probably pretty varied, but all the ancestors I am aware of are from the British Isle. As to heartlessness, my statement is based on my living through the time of Israel's founding and reading zionist propaganda since. Then there was (at least here in America) a constant refrain of images of concentration camps and descriptions of the horrors of the holocaust, leading into an explanation that Jews needed a homeland of their own and had a right to move into and take over Palestine. Ever since, when the issue of Jews having the right to take over Palestine comes up one ALWAYS is reminded of the horrors of the holocaust. Would you not therefore agree that it fair to say that the holocaust is used by zionists as a selling point to justfy there being an Israel?

I'm not sure what you are talking about, but, for the record, I have never questioned that the German government during WWII killed million of Jews. What would I get in that museum that would change my mind or give me new insight?

With incomplete information, Kofi Anan can state how he just can't believe a report that the IDF wasn't responsible for the Gaza beach explosion. He's quick to make that statement in order to harm Israel. Yet the head of the UN, an organization formed because of WWII, has yet to make a clear and unequivocal statment about the lies constantly spouted by a member nation's President who claims the Holocaust didn't happen. It's proven and every "impartial" historian states the fact. Is there any explanation other than anti-Semitism why Kofi isn't loudly condemning Ahmadinejad?

And why does the world give him audience? The Iranian president is quite out of touch with reality.

In 70 AD? The guy only lived 33 years. This might be stretching the Resurrection a tad far. There's no word in the bible that he hung around for 37 years. ("That Jesus, returned from the dead and opened a grog shop. He turns water into wine, you know.") On the other hand, perhaps an impartial investigation is in order . . .

I am Lithuanian and Proud of my Heritage, there is NOTHING to be ashamed of.

You do not present to me a challenge that is in any manner intimidating. However, you have to realize that Haaretz editors are very protective of this 'holocaust' issue. They have withheld one of my recent posts which would have at least begun to meet your challenge head on.

USA just tied Italy. Who would have thought !

"The enormous evil that was the Shoah needs no embellishment to "sell" the creation of Israel." Yes it does. Because the real Shoah, in its true, unvarnished dimensions, could never have produced enough world sympathy for the creation of Israel. The Soviet, Ukranian, Armenian, Cambodian, and Rwandan and Sudanian holocosts were just as bad or far worse than the Shoah.

"but what happened: the Dean of Utrecht University ordered him to his chambers and warned him not to do this, in order not to upset the Dutch muslim community." Tulip, my sympathies for the loss of the freedom of speech and the loss of commonsense happening in Holland. I do hope it is reversible.

Well what about the Ivory Coast??????

Your brother knew the score,I bet you he had locked away some old 8mm movies of tottenhams games from 60-61. Look at them at tell me if they are haimishe or not. (look you cant look it up in a dictionary!)

Bigots are really funny when they try to do their thing. First, I grew up in New York City, where Jews are a very major part of the population. That being the case, I grew up with Jews, and have worked with, played with, dated, and interacted with Jews all my life. As to zionism, it is my understanding that it played a very minor role in American Jewry until after WWII, and after that mainly came up in the context of and was justified by.the holocaust. As to the holocaust only entering discussions of Israel occasionally, that's nonsense. Whenever anyone questions anything about Israel, the kneejerk response to whatever it is, from expelling the native gentiles and stealing their land to repressive measures used on those that are left, is that the holocaust justifies it. Read the entries on this board, and come to reality.

60 YEARS OF TRIALS IN COUNTLESS COUNTRIES OF NAZI WAR CRIMINALS AND THIS SIMPLETON WANTS A NEW ENQUIRY . THE PAPER EVIDENCE MUST CIRCLE THE EARTH 100 TIMES IN LENGTH

I guess the Brits still have to wait with analysis until the level of their play goes up a bit...

No, I don't know what a Haimishe team is. But, I do know what a succesful team is. Need I say more Ronnie?

What you said of the pastures reminded me of the pal donkey kidnapped by masked perpetrators. If you haven't read the article, I recomend you it. It is now on the right side of the homepage.

You forgot to mention also The existance of your god, which has never been proved right? The last time he spoke to a human was ..what 3000 years ago??

HOW ABOUT A PROBE ON Israel's Nuke Probe, you forgot to mention that

LINDSEY You forgot also there is more proof of the Holocaust than the existence of 'Hasem', conveniently he 'talked' to Abraham and other 3000 years ago but NOTHING ever since, at least no one has talked to him ever since. Is this right?

Somebody better tell the Mayor of London about those anti-baiting laws before he gets himself in trouble.

His goal is to wipe out Israel. He has 'Holocaust' on his mind. Iran must be prevented from attaining nuclear weapons, not only for the sake of Israel, but for that of all of mankind.

I find this interesting. After paying close attention to these talkbacks, it seems 9 out of 10 times that the Holocaust pops up in discussion, it is not a Jew who brings it up. I was never taught, growing up, that the Holocaust is the reason for Israel. The historical timeline of Zionism pretty much rules it out. It is possible that the Europeans felt badly enough at the end of WWII that they did not supress the emergence of Israel. But the Jewish project of building a state on stateless land in the Jews' historical homeland was well underway by the 1920's. In my experience among Jews the Holocaust enters discussions of Israel only when it becomes nescessary to point out how irrational and driven the anti-semetic movement is. For example, when people say "Oh, Nassar didn't really mean he wanted to kill all the Jews. That was just hyperbole and for domestic consumption." Then the response can appropriately be: Jews no longer have to take that risk as they did in Europe 1930's.

So... you were born in the British Palestinian mandeate in 1943. And you believe that Nazism's ultimate victims were the Palestinians. Does that make you (and your birth) essentially part of the Nazi scourge. Was your birth part and parcel with the millions who died in Eastern Russia (and I'm not even talking about the Jews victims of genocide). One hundred million people died during WWII. another 100 million were displaced (many to never return home, some to return to "home: that ended up inside of some other country's borders. How can you live with the guilt knowing that as much as those hundreds of millions that were directly impacted by the war suffered, you and your birth were the Nazi instruments that created the, somehow, even greater tragedy that befell the Palestinians. I think you need to rethink your position. I'll state mine again to help. The ultimate victims of the Nazi were those who died at thier hand.

I don't know where you get your information from that baiting is acceptable in London, but it is clearly wrong. In fact someone who is Jewish is protected in two ways, by a law that prohibits racist abuse and a law that prohibits religious abuse as well. Information about these offences is available on the website of the relevant Police Force or the Crown Prosecution Service, website.

And a self hating Welshman and a Philistine apologist...and you have no idea what a haimishe team means!!!! Tottenham plays in Judaism's finest two colors Navy and White.There is only Kosher food served within a 1 mile radius (The Doner in the Tottenham High Road doesnt count),we sing Glory Glory Hallelujah (and Hatikvah on a good day) and you are going to support this bunch a scallops????? I bet you've got pictures of Thierry Henry and Goebels on your war (Goebels is on the left wearing the Arsenal shirt) It was what I said about Wales,wasnt it??????

203 sez: "There are few subjects in the world more studied than the Holocaust" Hollingsworth sez: The above statement represents still yet another layer of the myth I say: Hollingsworth, name more than "a few". Go ahead and name some historical event that has as many personal testimonies recorded on film and audio tape, as many books written about it, as skeptical of an audience who is determined to do it's own "investigating". Name more than a few historical or scientific happenings that have been explored through books and movies in more languages. Go ahead, we are waiting... You are pathetic.

If you have not coonquered, what is the point to coming and seeing? If you have conquered, why have you come?

"ncidentally it is not true that Palestine did not appear on any map as an independent state but that is something you should research yourself. I have a Palestinian birth certifacate and my parent`s also as well as various other documents as well as Passports etc.,Have the inquiry, get it over a.s.a.p." Your birth certificate may very well say Palestine. That was the name of Israel, Jordan, and what will become Palestine in the future. However, it was not a state and it was certainly not independent. As for your claim that such a place exists on a map from the past; I'd find it much more instructive (and I'd admit I'm wrong) if you could cite such a map. What makes me question your Jewish identity is the rediculous assertion that "the Palestinians are the ultimate victims of the Nazis". I still can't really wrap my brain around that one. Most people that have Palestine on their birth certificate were out of Europe before the Holocaust.

Jew-baiting has become unacceptable in the West, outside of London. Evidently, it remains a great virtue in Dar al Islam. My advice: ignore it. Iran's cartoonish anti-semitism is creating a reaction, which can only benefit Israel and Jews.

You live in Israel and you don't know about British mandated Palestine I'm ashamed of you. My husband was born in "Palestine" in 1934 when it was ruled by the British...hence his birth certificate says "Palestine". It was a British mandate and ruled by the British. It was not a country. In fact more Jews immigrated to the region than Arabs. You need to read your history books because you have your facts mixed up and as an Israeli you should know what happened. I cannot believe that you did not learn this in Bet-Sefer but maybe you were absent that day.

If it is proved that Louise Labbé never existed and this serves to demonstrate that Holocaust didn't exist, it should also serve to demonstrate we don't exist ourselves, because the Louise Labbé proof should also serve to demonstrate that humankind never existed in spite of the documents showing the opposite.

I hope you all don't have a letter writing fit each time that Iranian baboon opens his mouth. Let him rant to the world and everyone can see what an ass he is. Leaders who have the good of their own countries, and the world do not behave in this mannaer and most of us that count see him for the irresponsible idiot he is.

Ronnie the erudition of your posts has convinced me of the error of my ways. Starting next season I'll change my support from Cardiff City, although they did win the FA Cup in the same century as Spurs (20th century), to the side they beat in that famous victory in 1927 the only time the FA Cup has left England. Yes I'm going to support a side with good community support and record of activity in their community, North London's finest ARSENAL. Well done Ronnie, Arsene Wenger will send you his thanks personally.

Because it is too ridiculous for words. But just for fun,I sent a short one to Leon Rosgarten...

I'll give you that.No quibbling nothing.The financial benefit you'll derive from this undertaking is nothing to sniff at,is it? You must promise some of us though special front row seats during the proceedings. And who better than your good self to represent us poor Israeli citizens...

It has just been announced that HE The President of Iran has DENIED that Iran has lost the football match against Portugal.He said that this is a big lie and a propaganda by the Zionist State . The Islamic world have rallied behind the President .

If you were born in 1943 in Haifa, then you were born in British Mandatory Palestine, hardly an independent country. Until 1922, the entire region was part of the Ottoman Empire, but since the Allies won World WarI, the Ottoman Empire was broken up, and all of what is today Jordan, Israel and in between became part of British Mandatory Palestine. I am surprised that you do not know this. If there was an independent state of Palestine, I challenge you to produce it, with exact references.

She (Mireille Huchon) has found and proved that Louise Labbé who has a lot of biographists had NEVER EXISTED. There is a lot of documentation about her. If Louise Labbé had never existed as poet women, so why not to be skeptical about the Holocaust?

Makes some quip about sardines.Then prepares them for the Iranian players to eat for the next 4 years. Meanwhile Tulip a little over excited about Hollands victory AGAINST WHO??????? Oh yes the Ivory Coast..Powerhouse soccer nation that is,if there ever was one. And True Brit: You are aware that Wales didnt play today.And you know that they didnt play yesterday or the day before or the day before that.Infact no game tommorow or the next day or the next day or the one after that but they ARE in training...though FIFA says no miners allowed under the age of 65. Though Wales IS just below Madagascar in the World rankings.

If you have the means, and an open mind, (this must be asking alot), please visit yad v''shem in Jerusalem. And, afterward, tell us about realities.

potaboc, The enormous evil that was the Shoah needs no embellishment to "sell" the creation of Israel.

Perhaps he should sponsor a conference on Mohammed cartoons and the implications of them. It could be held under the banner of, let's see, "A world without religious intolerance"

"He said that many suffered serious mental problems because of the virulent hatred that they felt toward Jews. " It's comforting to know those patients' hatred has been justly rewarded. lol Now I'm wondering if its curable? (( well I do know some Muslim to Christian converts from the Islamic world who give witness to waking up from some sort of trance from their previous hate culture )) I'm fortunate in that I have never encountered any neo-nazis, but some conversations I've had with Muslims post Oslo and post 9/11 really leave me scratching my head as to how their daily, paranoid obsession with "zionists", "Israel", and "Jews", leaves them able to function in our American society. Now I wonder if they, too, are on a psychiatrist's couch each week? :)

The question is not Islam or the Prophet Muhammed or any other Prophet it is an event that happened in the 20th century that is well documented yet for some reason no one is allowed to question this event - when one does it is called "Holocaust Denial." This is obviously not doing the Jewish people or Israel any good and as there is nothing to fear about the truth of the Holocaust then why not let them have their independent inquiry and get it over before accusations against us get more unpleasant." Every day people who are non Jews question the Holocause and worse, I have actually heard people when I travel justify why it happened and I feel we would be better of to have this over and done with as quickly as possible. I have confidence in our History and so should every other Jew.

P in 243:Since the holocaust is one of the big selling points for the creation of Israel This expresses a tremendous amount of heartlessness on your part. Although I never agree with you but found your posts 'interesting', I start to worry now and I believe you are in the same categroy as Hollingsworth. A white aryan christian/agnost/atheist, but white in any case.

First of all bbi I have no idea where you are located but I am located in Israel and I was born in the same house that I live in today in 1943 in Hadar, Haifa to Jewish parents and am a Jew. I have no doubts with the Holocaust so you really should read and try to understand what I am saying and it is this and I will put it simply: The world is asking qestions regarding the Holocaust and has been for many years. So far countries have passed laws in order to try to stop "Holocaust Denial." It has not worked because we are still being asked and now challenged much more openly about the Holocaust and the connection of the Holocaust and the loss to Palestinians of their State. Incidentally it is not true that Palestine did not appear on any map as an independent state but that is something you should research yourself. I have a Palestinian birth certifacate and my parent's also as well as various other documents as well as Passports etc.,Have the inquiry, get it over a.s.a.p.

I prefer my own high math. of 2-1 Holland versus Ivory Coast.

It has not been unheard of for people to embroider a true story to make it more useful for what they are trying to do. Since the holocaust is one of the big selling points for the creation of Israel, it is not impossible that some details were expanded to make the story better.

there most certainly should be a "probe", and we all know what kind; to find this guy's brain and put it back in his head where it belongs !

History has taught us that the testimony in a show trial does not always have a one-to-one correlation with reality.

I bought the book in the ramsj, my eye fell on it. I did not know what to expect from it. It is a very interesting book, though not writing by Iranians themselves. The woman is Lebanese, the man American. I know native Iranians, one of the Leiden University professors, a lawyer and philosopher has written in the style of this couple. I read more books written by Iranian emancipated women, I watched documentaries about Iranian daily life in the alternative movie scene, I think as an outsider I got a good idea what teh problem is in Iran.

Bravo Hoque! When will more noble people like you will think like you?

This is for a game with a team with only one fan, and he lives thousands of miles away. This fan can't explain his devotion to a team that hasn't won anything for decades,but gets points by being insulting to the Welsh. Any suggestions for a name for the game?

I dont tink we need to examine the sanity or otherwise of mohamemadinehed. HE MAY SPEAK FROM FEVER OR FROM JEALOUSY OF THE BRILLIANCE OF THE JEWS- LET HIM NOT THROW JEWS INTO THE SEA- BUT TRY THE BENEFICIAL RESULT OF WADING 10 FEET UNDER THE FOAM- SO REFRESHING. HE MAY DECIDE SUCH FEELING IS TOO GOOD FOR THE JEWS. ANYTHING CAN BE SOLVED WITH LOVE .

Hitler is reborn. A few near-Hitlers are in the process of being born. But there must not take place onother Holocaust! Yes, we who love life must avert that, irrespective of creed or caste.

Sorry folks, we have to send our agents back as they seem to have gotten the wrong house, hollingsworth will be arranged. My humble apologies for the delay jic.com Jewish International Cabal We know you-you don't know us

Holocaust is something that thickens my blood. When I hear someone raising questions about it, I do have big questions about his sanity. isn't it like saking whether the the man shot in the chest feel any pain! Brutal indeed!

Headlines : Great news ! : World Cup Football results : Portugal 2 Iran 0 The nutti president will now order to wipe off the Iranian Tean from The Football Syndicate .!!

I have not heard of these authors or the book, but from the title I can predict what is in it. If you read this, you mudt first a couple of books on Iran as whole first, then look at the 21st century predictions, by a couple of non-Iranians. There was a good book on Iran recently published in Israel and mentioned in Haaretz. Look that up and start there

Sure all true, but the same holds true for all other Iranians at one time or another. The first Qajar king in the 1700s ordered the entire CITY of Kerman blinded because they gave refuge the a former king. They used hot skewers to to their deed. So, while your comments are true, Jews were not singeled out....That is the point here. You have to read my entire comment first.......

Some kind of one player game. The first player(the only player) denies an event (-25pts),then denies the results of a probe they created (-5pts),he then goes directly to Jail (-5pts) but denies passing GO (-2pts)and then denies being in Jail (-5pts). The onlookers do understand he is chronically delusional (-43 more points).He then loses all the bonus points he started with both in Iran (-20pts) and all round the Muslim world (-17pts).

Yes and by the Israelis too. Can not skip your part !!!!!!

The Holocaust was an extraordinary example of the human capacity for evil, and its importance as a cautionary tale is as great today as it ever was. Any legitimate work that keeps the memory, and the warning, alive, is a true blessing to the world. Work carried out in a manner that is credible to, and allowed to reach, people who have been taught that the Holocaust is a myth would be of particular value. As has already been mentioned, actually forging consensus on an "impartial" board of inquiry would be challenging, maybe even impossible, but it's well worth a try.

zmogus: "Uses of the Holocaust is still a taboo subject even in academia both in Israel and US and scholars dealing with it are subjects to academic cleansing and libelous charges" Kate, in response: "There are few subjects in the world more studied than the Holocaust" ________ Dear Kate, you will not fail to see the difference between the "uses of Holocaust" and "Holocaust, will you? There are at least 10000 studies of various scientific value on the last; you can count on your fingers and toes those on the former. Holocaust belongs vaguely to the discipline of history (although often being made into a discipline apart); its use - to social anthropology and political sciences. Footnotes upon request. The "Lithuanian" subject you evoke for the 2nd time makes me desperate: did you read my four-part answer on it a month ago, disspelling some myths you reiterate? I have it saved, will send upon request (Haaretz readers will have to excuse me for the repetition of the obsolete).

Yes

It is interesting which politically significant facts become a matter of historical debate and which are allowed to rampage unchallenged. As has been pointed out, the Holocaust was one of several genocidal episodes in the 20th century. Yet only one is being questioned. If someone like Ahmadinejad wants to debate whether or not it happened-and then undo what he feels are the results of that "lie"-well then why not look at some other historical "facts", and if proof cannot be found that they ever happened, well, lets just say that whats the point of an Islamic Republic if theres no "impartial proof" that this guy Muhammed was really a prophet in the first place? Ahmadinejad isn't interested in establishing a political reality based on reason and fact-he wants one that reflects the priorities of Islamic fanatics like himself.

Let's start again. Why don't we investigate if the earth goes around the sun or viceversa? The proofs that the earth goes around the sun have been lifted to an icon -it is not science any more but myth.

The problem here is that Holocaust deniers, such as the idiot of Teheran, 'know' before investigating. There are tons of evidence that the Holocaust was committed. Does this Ameny-something have any evidence against it? No. He admits himself that the Holocaust existed, since when it suits his interests, he says Europe should pay for it because Europe did it. That person only wants to mess around and his intention is not good.

HOLLY AND THE OTHER DOUBTERS THE TRIAL TRANS-SCRIPT IS ON THE WEB LOOK IT UP HE WAS ONLY DOING HIS DUTY

The Talkback Online of this paper is an effective way to cause more hatred of Israel and the Jewish people.

The only hoax and lie Hollingsworth is you. Before we get to studying the existence of the Holocaust, other, serious matters need to be addressed first, such as: 1. Whether the earth is really round; 2. Whether a man has been on the moon; and 3. Why psychological illness and holocaust denial seem to be correlated. #3 is probably most relevant to you and your ilk. By the way, Shabbat Shalom.

Haaretz enjoys provoking Israel and the Jewish people

"ahmadinejad come to israel and we will hang you and take care of you israeli style." That's NOT Israeli style.

"There are few subjects in the world more studied than the Holocaust" The above statement represents still yet another layer of the myth

""What a thorough research will do is prove that the 60 year-old portrayal of the `Holocaust` is, in many aspects, a complete hoax and a lie."" Even if a thorough research uncovers evidence of the Holocaust beyond any reasonable doubt prejudiced people will always say that the evidence is fabricated,documents found are false and the whole thing is a hoax. They are the same prejudiced people who accuse Jews of poisoning wells,ritual murder and the conspiracy to take over the world.Do they have any evidence to prove these things?

It doesn’t matter who you are in the world or who has your sympathies. Ahmadinejad will cause the death of many before his time is up. Hitler would have got on well with him.

doing exactly what Ahmadinejad wants you to do. That is, continuously reporting the same broken record over and over again! Selah!

So what happened in Utrecht: the professor had to change his speech, otherwise he would be BANNED from the podium, on his own farewell party. ANNO 2006!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!Can you imagine? Scientific research of the Holocaust would be very welcome, but no free from scrupulous manipulation.

David, I am all for scientific research into the Holocaust, although I don't think it will not bring something new. The problem with science is however, that even in science there is no complete freedom of research. A topic as Holocaust and antisemitism is nowadays a big obstacle in the scientific world. To give an example: the Dutch New testament Professor van der Horst will retire this month and gave his closing speech at Utrecht University. He is an expert on Judaism within the Christian Theology faculty. In his closing speech he was intending to speak about the myth of Jewish cannibalism, as portrayed through the centuries, leading up to inquisition, pogroms, Holocaust and post-WW II expression. This myth is still going on in particular the Arab world today. He wanted to speak about that, but what happened: the Dean of Utrecht University ordered him to his chambers and warned him not to do this, in order not to upset the Dutch muslim community.

I'll answer for you, by their felolow Arabs

"any subject in history is investigated and researched again and again. This work never finished. If something is lifted up and made to icon - it is not science anymore but politics, religion, nationalism etc" History and Science are two different disciplines. In science, new research is built upon older peer reviewed research. Unless contradicting evidence arises, people do not continue to publish the same investigation over and over. History, on the other hand, is inescapably what you describe, a narritive told through lenses of "politics, religion, [and] nationalism etc". The scientific research on the Holocaust (concerning HOW millions were rounded up and wiped out) has been firm for decades. The historical research (concerning WHY this happened) is apparently still open for debate; as cynical as that debate may be.

If you had lost a number of loved ones in this massacre, you'd also be pissed off. Are they not enough proofs that it happened. No civilized people can doubt it. I doubt whether you are civilized from your inane statement

As the President of Iran has already made it clear that it would not change his opinion even if he is given incontrovertible proof, why does he want an "impartial" probe? Is he next going to deny that New Orleans was flooded? Or that there was a tsunami in South Asia? Neither of these events, as horrifying and disastorous as they were, can by a rational person be considered to be on the scale of the Holocaust. Because of the magnitude of the scale and horror of the Holocaust, I seriously doubt that any normal,rational,feeling human being could approach this from the same angle as the Holocaust deniers who sadly are among us.

1. It takes a lot of time to bring scientific evidence into schools where it should begin. By then the pupils are already inundated with the most interesting convictions about life and nature, due to family traditions and whatever fashions of the nost different kinds. I made a hell of an effort to tenderly make the pupils see that not only water, soil, air and fire can be considered as elements, but that there's good reason to believe that atoms exist which are for us the fundamental building bricks. That scientists are not being understood is probably their own fault, too. Why listening to those peremptory scholars with their greek and latin when it is more agreable to listen to some flattering and gifted rhetoric's reasonings concerning the corrupt nature of the Jews? It's more pleasant to be his adherent. 2. Who cares if the holocaust took place or not if their aren't even the most basic humanist ethics present in many minds?

Why do we continue to validate this imbicil's argument by continuing the discussion? Tony Blair said "....there is no need to have an inquiry". Well, dahhh. It's a good thing he was politically correct. We wouldn't want to offend any muslims now would we?

"Funny how people make up arguments to exclude Holocaust from scientific research." As the Holocaust is studied in virtually every history department of every university in the West, which people and what arguments did you have in mind?

"Uses of the Holocaust is still a taboo subject even in academia both in Israel and US and scholars dealing with it are subjects to academic cleansing and libelous charges" There are few subjects in the world more studied than the Holocaust. What tends to be taboo in a large number of places relates to the study of the collaboration by Europeans in the Holocaust. Thus, while it is well know that Lithuania was a far more anti-Semitic society than Germany and the vast majority of Lithuanians not just collaborated in the genocide of the Jews in Lithuania but were actually chiefly responsible for it, no Lithuanian would dare to study this terrible aspect of his nation's history.

Just like the Palestinians were able to convince the world of there so called cause,Ahmadinejad is trying to do the same,concerning the Holocaust.Propaganda is very dangerous,all you have to do is read some of the answers to this sight. I am shocked at the number of gullable and ignorant people,who will believe anything that sounds plausable,they repeat it several times to friends and afterwards they are convinced it is true. I am convinced that if this story of denial continues,people will be convinced that it never happened,thats what Ahmadinejad wants.

Thanks for not calling me anti-Semite, just an aid of it. Uses of the Holocaust is still a taboo subject even in academia both in Israel and US and scholars dealing with it are subjects to academic cleansing and libelous charges. But this all a question apart. The point is that in principle you allow the discussion on the "uses" in Holocaust commemoration and in shaping everyday politics departing from it. Let me ask you Jeff, do you really think that in order to fight the anti-Semitism we should cover up even more this endless ideological manipulation instead of rather dismantling this machinery and ceasing to provide quite real elements feeding the anti-Semitists constructing their theories? My argument works even if you think Jews are more entitled to their interests than others are to theirs: My point is that eventually honesty is the best strategy in politics. zmogus

Funny how people make up arguments to exclude Holocaust from scientific research. As all academics know, any subject in history is investigated and researched again and again. This work never finished. If something is lifted up and made to icon - it is not science anymore but politics, religion, nationalism etc

is `Answering-only to-God / Faith and freedom in Twenty-first-century Iran' by Geneive Abdo & Jonathan Lyons. Ahmedjinidad was not at the stage in this form yet, but it gives a good look on where he coems from.

Iranian-American writes: "There is no record of any acts by Iranians in their entire 7000+ year history that would even remotely come close to what the Europeans did to the Jewish people" The reality: 'The history and lives of the Persian Jews are also marked by forced conversions, lynching and massacre' ' "the Persian Jews were required to live in a segregated part of the city, considered unclean, and forbidden to walk or trade in the Moslem areas. They were forbidden to trade in foodstuff or go out when it rains on account of their impurity. If a Persian Moslem killed a Jew, his punishment upon the testimony of two Moslems against him was a fine of 12 tomans, while lack of Moslem witnesses let the crime go unpunished. ...And finally Benjamin tells us that a Persian Jew who dared to show himself outdoor during the days of Shi'ai religious mourning "is sure to be murdered." ' http://www.arizonapersian.com/iranopinion/_disc8/0000000f.htm

Israel must be pro-arab - we have 12 Arab Mks out of 120 as opposed to 1 Jews out of 290. Israel has no bar on the number of Arabs that can be elected, Iran has 5 maximum for non-muslims.

Just make sure Israel follows the same path as you say: "... it helps no one to think that any society, when it lets its guard down, is immune from becoming either the oppressor or the oppressed."....bbl I think the Palestininas have been oppressed.

He keeps on quorting holocaust deniers like Mr. Irving and that crowd. They are the ones he wants to investigate the holcaust.

AA, I hear you. At the same time, I do not think you should lump Iran with your direct foes of the last 100 years together. Jewish people in Iran have had magnificent as well as difficult times throughout their history. So have the rest of the Iranian people. There is no record of any acts by Iranians in their entire 7000+ year history that would even remotely come close to what the Europeans did to the Jewish people, over the last 500 years. So, I think there is a point here. The palestinians have also not committed any crimes against the Jewish people. They have been at war with Israel, and war is ugly. The solution ot all this is moderation not extremism. That is why I think Israel should take Ahmadinejad up on his proposal. It will force dialogue. Talking will lead to moderation. We are all one after all. What is the real difference between a Jew, a Muslim, a christian, a Zoroastrian, or a Hindu anyway. All tell us to do good and refrain from bad....

Hello, Cipora. Interesting to know what that woman told you. I read in a book written by a psychiatrist that anti-Semitism was a symptom of a very serious mental disorder. I have heard hatred is very harmful to the people who feel it. So I believe it is possible for people to go mad. because of hatred and also to hate because they are mad. Maybe one thing feeds the other. This morning I heard on the radio that a lot of books are being published these days about Holocaust, the diaries written by common people. They said one whose title is ?Diaries of Prague, 1941-1942?. I?ll try to find out the author?s name, which I couldn?t pick, and look for the book. This reminded me of another one written by Kemplerer (?The language of the Third Reich?). I couldn?t read it in a row because what he tells is hard to bear, so I had to take a break from time to time. I suppose you know the book and the author, so I tell you no more on it.

You are cheering when every little piece of your gospel is fulfilled, namely when everything what has to do with Zion, the place from wich the law of your God should go forth from, falls apart, including the Jewish temple. From the cradle on you ahev been cheering, it was your nourishment from the day one.

Oh I do believe Hollingsworth believes in, only, the New Testament, presented and explained in the way of the Replacement Theology. He, however, is not a fan of Jesus but of Rome. Like him there are millions.

"Also Holocaust must be investigated and researched as any other subject to separate science from politics, religion." This, of course has happened already. Many time over and many years ago the Holocaust was researched and documented to the upmost standards of historical research. What you find today, among researchers who have little patience for Holocaust deniers, is the same exasperation you would get if you were pushing an examination of why water flows uphill not downhill (it doesn't). Money and time for research are often the limiting factors. Real historians understand that there is little to gain researching events that were properly (an exhaustively) researched the first time around. It rightfully pisses them off the same way it irritates a biologist when they are asked to waste time re-arguing the validity of evolutionary theory.

Iranian President smiles, feels well, because he knows that some Leaders. like Putin, supports him, shakes his hands. I think it is time to warn Putin that such his behavior could hurt relationship of Israel with Russia. Russia needs us more than we need her.

By your logic, science could never go ahead, because we would also be questioning the previous stages. The perpetrators of the Holocaust themselves left enough evidence.

You are of course right that there is a great deal of hatred towards Jews in the palestinian community. I would only offer two comments. (1) The sentiments you quote are certainly not new, and probably would have been there if WWII and the flirtation with nationalsozialismus never happened. (2) I am old enough to remember the propaganda campaigns fed the American people during WWII. They weren't materially different from what you quote. That is most likely the way wartime propaganda goes.

Hello, both of you, Just a quick note before I log off. I once met a woman whose brother was a psychiatrist, and he had many patients from a certain eastern european country. He said that many suffered serious mental problems because of the virulent hatred that they felt toward Jews. I hope you are both well. and maybe I'll see you later or tomorrow. Regards, Cipora

Why do you need impartial experts to disect the Holocaust? The best chronicler of the evils of the Nazi regime come straight from the horses mouth, the Nazis. They meticiously recorded and filmed all of the dastardly things that they did including the Wannsee conference where the final solution was determined. If the President of Iran is to bigoted to admit this horrible time in history to hell with him...as for you what is your problem?

He would also say the pals are survivors as well. Don't pals say they are the true natives of Eretz Yisroel and that Jews have nothing to do with Palestine?

Also Holocaust must be investigated and researched as any other subject to separate science from politics, religion.

Israel is perfectly legal, by the League of Nations and the UN's resolutions.

"but his anti zionist speeches are magnificent and echo majority views among ordinary Muslims." Do Muslims have lives beyond their obsession with what the "zionists" are up to? The Arab League published a report in 2003 that noted that the Arab Islamic world's obsession with "zionists" was one of the main reasons their countries were so backwards when it came to science and technology.

By and large the people who most need to see evidence of 20th Century genocide live in societies where the powers that be won't allow it. However, I do think that it is instructive for Americans (Jews and others), who generally do know about the Holocaust, to see that clouds of madness can infect any society and make victims out of any people. The museum of Tolerance in L.A. provides this opportunity. I remain convinced that the Holocaust stands out as an exceptional example of genocide, but it helps no one to think that any society, when it lets its guard down, is immune from becoming either the oppressor or the oppressed.

Dear Iranian-American: I live in Jerusalem and I consider each Palestinian first of all as a human being, as I consider every Jew: there is no difference for me. Unfortunately, I'm afraid that for many Palestinians (and Iranians for that matter) this won't make any difference, if they could get their hands around my neck. I could tell them I'm for peace, I'm for a Palestinian state, I have Palestinian friends, I will be dead in any case. A few years ago a couple of students from the Hebrew university in Jerusalem were caught by Arabs in a forest around Jerusalem. The couple begged for their life, even, I have heard it said, showed them their membership cards in a peace movement in Israel. They were both lynched all the same. This is where the Iranian president would like to take us now....

This is like the story of the guy who one night lost his keys in the street but was looking for them at home. When they asked him why dont you look in the street for them he said it is too dark over there!!!! YOU dont need a museum of Tolerance in LA. You need one in Tehran, and one in the West Bank, and another one in Jedda. At the same time the average Israeli should consider each Palestinian as a Jew, as the word Tolerance preaches, otherwise no number of museums would work.

I thought a shahid was a martyr. Did I misunderstand?

The "Palestinian Narrative" is stolen from the story of the Jewish people (ie, an ancient nation longing for its homeland, etc.) They want to take trillions and trillions of dollars of infrastructure invested and built by the Jewish people in Israel. Turning THEMSELVES into "the real Jews" is part of this attempt. What's going on with bringing up the Holocaust is the attempt to turn the Pals into the "real victims" of WWII. In this scenario, everything else is ignored (especially the fact that the Palestine Mandate was broken off into pieces given to three other Arab countries even before trying to give a homeland to the Arabs within the Holy Land.) The Palestine Mandate is already four states for two peoples (with parts in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan and Israel.) "Palestine" would make it FIVE states for two peoples. A people to replace "The Jews" was invented in 1969. They have a "Jewish" story and now they want to be the "real" Holocaust survivors, too.

A small minority of Iranian Jews immigrated to Israel in the 1950s. they include the current President of Israel and the last Defense minister. If this tells you what "Iranian" jews can do, you would not ask them to leave Iran. True, the largest migration of Jews from Iran happened after the Islamic revolution. This occured ONLY as part of an even larger out-migration of Iranians as a whole. It has much more to do with anti-fundamentalist feelings than anti-jewish stuff. Unfortunately, the open hostility between Israel and Iran might create change for the worse.

First of all, I dare say that you are not a Jewish Israeli. It's not a claim I make lightly. In general, I don't assume I can tell. However, your comments betray you. "We have shown the world our story for 60 years and now they are asking questions why not answer them?" The story is the answers to the questions. The Holocaust is not some esoteric debate. The evidence for it is real and concrete. Have you ever been to Yad Vashem or The Wiesenthal Center for Tolerance. What did you see there that you would like to call into question. What questions, other than how can humans be so depraved, did an honest exploration of the evidence elicit in you? At the museum of Tolerance in L.A. there is a most thorough accounting for the Armenian genocide (1910's 1.3+ million deaths) and of the Kemere Rouge's rampage in Cambodia (1970's 2+ million deaths). Do you question the methodologies that went into investigating those crimes? Which questions, have not been answered?

"The only problem with revisiting these inquiries is that anyone who denies the Holocaust today has already shown an inability to evaluate evidence and proceed to reasoned conclusions." Ahmadinejad is playing a game he believes he can't lose: 1. If Holocaust evidence proves it - then Mossad must have created this evidence. Jews must move to Europe. 2. If Holocaust evidence does NOT prove it to his satisfaction - it's all been a lie (ie, Mossad did it.) Jews must move to Europe. He's trying to upset people with his notion that the Holocaust hasn't been proved and that Europe needs to be redesigned and reconfigured to suit those against Israel (or else he'll start nuking the planet.) The western world doesn't want to hurt anyone, but if this madmen takes things too far, then something will have to be done about him. Most of us here know the kind of bigotry disease involved in Holocaust denial. Personally, it doesn't bother me when a madman makes his illness known.

"There is no doubt that the ultimate victims of the Nazis are the Palestinians no matter how much we try to invent stories about the Mufti,"... Wow, you are either confused, debilitatingly cynical, or both. The victims of the Nazi are those who died at their hand. Futher, it is no invention to say that the Palestinians aligned themselves with the Nazis. That doesn't make them culpable for the Holocaust, but nobody ever said they were. The fact that Palestine has yet to ever appear on the map as an independant Arab state is not due to the events in Europe of 60+ years ago. Modern Zionism was well underway by 1900. Had the Nazis not killed so many Jews, there would have been more Jews with intact finances to build Israel. In this way, the Palestinians probably benefitted from the Holocaust, without being in any way directly responsible for it.

you see, how can this Iranian nation be anti semitic? Certainly we see hating Jews and hating zionism are 2 very diverse concepts

although he is Shia, I am proud that he is the leader of a Muslim nation that has such an excellent stance on the illegal zionist entity. I don't agree with him on events in Germany decades past, but his anti zionist speeches are magnificent and echo majority views among ordinary Muslims.

None of these pipe dreams of yours would happen now. The actions and words of an arrogant Washington and constant prodding of an scared to death Israel have done their job. The fundamentalists of Iran now walk on the world stage with leaders of China, Russia and all of Asia. Even the economic leverage is gone. Now the US will have to negotiate with them. That is it. BTW, Iranian Jews are just like you said: Iranian. They have decided to stay in their home of more than 2000 years.

What possible facts are they to consider that would lead to a conclusion other than that which has been made long ago. Neither in their personal testimonies nor in their miles and miles of paperwork do the Germans deny their own crimes. The imparial research on the Holocaust (that has already taken place) has amassed a body of evidence, open to the public, that is unparalleled in its thoroughness. The evidence is both compelling and incontavertable. It spans across personal testimony, forensic evidence, writings, photographic and film archives, industrial, governmental, and military documentation, the historical record of German laws both passed and suggested, insurance records, espionage protocols, newspaper reports from the time, destroyed graveyards and destropyed Jewish places of worship. The only problem with revisiting these inquiries is that anyone who denies the Holocaust today has already shown an inability to evaluate evidence and proceed to reasoned conclusions.

All Iranian Jews should get out before either a) The U.S. takes out every piece of military related hardware in Iran, or b) The Mossad takes out Ahmadinejad with a slow-killing virus. The extremists in Iran will have a bad reaction.

So ,if we understand well the Iranian President= He has derious doubt concerning the holocaust that many of us have witnessed... But absolutly no doubt concerning the questionnable landing of a flying horse in Jerusalem some 1400 years ago ... God ! where are the Heirs of the great Muslims philosophers of the X century ?

Only a completely ignorant or pathological person would deny the reality of the Holocaust. Even the perpetrators themselves do not deny the crime.

Who's cheering?

"A thorough research into the Holocaust will bring all this back and more." What a thorough research will do is prove that the 60 year-old portrayal of the 'Holocaust' is, in many aspects, a complete hoax and a lie.

"but you can not argue that the costs to build modern Israel and put it on the map were billed largely to the Germans. The Germans paid them and are still paying them in the form of "reparation" for the Holocaust." Unbelievable you are. Are you really suggesting that the money paid by Germany in the '50's was not the money that Germany stole in the '30's and '40's. Has the darkness in your heart completely clouded the ether in your brain? Had Germany not stolen from the Jewish community in Europe, then the Israeli state (whose formation you do seem to admit was well underway before the Holocaust), could have been financed by the Jews who moved there instead of by the Germany entities(governmental and insustrial). The slave labor that the Jews provided to build the German industrial war machine could have been dedicated to building Israel. I do pity you the most when these discussions turn towards the Holocaust. Your dash to irrationality discredits anything else you have to say.

"" Remember your beloved Jesus wept for the destruction of the Temple. He did not cheer by the fall of this Jewish house of worship."" People like hollingworth believe christianity was invented by the Jews to control the gentiles.

""Indeed such an inquiry is long overdue. It is almost impossible to find suitably impartial experts outside Iran and Palestine"" There could be some in other countries especially in Syria and even in the US and UK namely the two Davids:Duke and Irving. Irving could start from jail in Austria.He has plenty of time to conduct an investigation.

The Palestinian leadership which sided with Hitler and its cohorts may be dead and buried but the ideas they espoused are not. "The Prophet said the Resurrection will not take place until the Muslims fight the Jews, and the Muslims kill them. The Muslims will kill the Jews, rejoice [in it], rejoice in Allah's victory. The Muslims will kill the Jews, and he will hide. The Prophet said, 'the Jews will hide behind the rock and tree, and the rock and tree will say, 'O servant of Allah, O Muslim, this is a Jew behind me, come and kill him!'' Why is there this malice? Because there are none who love the Jews on the face of the earth - not man, not rock, and not tree - everything hates them. They destroy everything. They destroy the trees and destroy the houses. Everything wants vengeance on the Jews, on these pigs on the face of the earth, and the day of our victory, Allah willing, will come. [PA TV, September 10, 2004]

Honi fo Denmark,:"The present regime in Iran simply has a different discourse of who is the good and the bad guy in history." Doesn't "discourse" imply discussion ? Discussion would require reason. Reason would, furthermore, necessitate open-mindedness. But there is no room for an egalitarian narrative when an Ayatollah is seated in the "king's throne".

The ultimate victims of the Nazis were those who were murdered by them.

I see you are joining Ahmadinejad in bringing up false issues. With a more rational view less clouded with hatred, you could come up with better arguments. Your point that German reparations were very helpful at the time is correct. The State started with very little and within the first 4 years or so doubled its population. You don't accomplish such a feat without help. So your point is, much help came from Germany. Would this diminish/destroy the legitimacy of the State? No. Does this mean that the Arabs are paying for European sins? No. A better argument for Ahmad and yourself would have been to claim that Zionism is the result of European anti-semitism. This would be a fair case, and one would then have to go and discuss what could be justified in colonial times versus today, a very long and tiring argument. Ahmad wants to win his case with one blow, the holocaust, but this just wouldn't work.

Ty for your honesty

Roberto, Do you want to have an impartial study of whether or not the earth is flat...or the moon is made of cheese? Why not? What are you afraid of? Is the truth scaring you? Are you afraid of what will be revealed? What are you hiding, my friend? Don't be so hysterical. The right to doubt is legitimate.

It sounds much the same as with Saddam in the past. People in the Arab world admired and praised him for standing up against the West and when he was found in a dirt hole and humiliated people blamed the West for creating him in the first place. But I agree that Ahmedinejad has a sweeter voice and a more compelling charisma than Saddam and thus is more amiable as a companion against a common foe. And that's the only thing that actually matters, setting all matters of morality and honesty aside it seems.

I fully concur, Margie. The whole 2,000 thing sounds like just another Zionist invention. After all, who controls the calendars?

Thanks Leon. I admit I actually thought you might be a real, though demented, person. Now I know you are a prankster. I don't have to waste time with you anymore.

does the iranian president exist? does he take place? An event of such importance to the world as an iranian president must be thoroughly investigated. if he does take place, why should the middle east suffer by his presence? why shouldn't he become european? this is serious.

Again, that palestinian leadership is all dead, and their crimes (and guilt therefor) died with them. As to how much the attitude of the ordinary palestinian is influenced by the views those worthies espoused, the answer is probably very little. Regarding your alternate universe musings, that kind of thing has nothing to do with the real world, and is mostly mental masturbation by those who have nothing better to do with their time. In THIS world, which is the only one we have to worry about, it didn't happen.

Why get so upset at the messenger only - the guy in charge is Ayatollah Khamenei. Everybody seems to forget that Iran is not actually a democracy. Even when Ahmedinejad tries to be a bit independent and innovative and suggest that women should be able to watch a soccor game - it's plain NO from the top. Does anybody know why the Persians are called Arians (Iranians) and why so many clerics and political opponents in Persia where in love with the Nazis and the Axe powers in the thirty's? As the saying goes: my enemy's friend is also my enemy or my enemy's enemy is my friend. The present regime in Iran simply has a different discourse of who is the good and the bad guy in history. And the "evil" of Israel is one of their tool to convince themselves and others that they were on the right track all along.

Ahmadinajad uses the same anti-Jewish ideolgy Hitler used during Nazism. His strategy is to remove the support Israel gets from the US and to lesser expent from Western Europe and turn it on its head digging the "guilt" ridden memories of the Holocaust... "Why does the world shed crocodile?s tears over the richly merited fate of a small Jewish minority? ? I ask Roosevelt, I ask the American people: Are you prepared to receive in your midst these well-poisoners of the German people and the universal spirit of Christianity? We would willingly give everyone of them a free steamer-ticket and a thousand-mark note for travelling expenses, if we could get rid of them." (Quoted in N H Baynes, The Speeches of Adolf Hitler, Oxford University Press, 1942, Volume I, pp.727-28) Why do Europeans support Israel?Jews should be allowed back there if Europeans are to blame for the Holocaust-says Ahmadinajad.Sounds familiar?

If European countries like Switzerland, Germany and also my counrty Holland would pay back, with interest, all the goods and money they stole from the Jews during the nazi era, Europe would collaps. Go and dive into history books.

The Holocaust and Jewish history is just a minor foot note in your gospel. You still have to learn an awful lot about Jewish history, from day one. Remember your beloved Jesus wept for the destruction of the Temple. He did not cheer by the fall of this Jewish house of worship.

""You can argue that the Zionist state pre-dated the Holocaust, but you can not argue that the costs to build modern Israel and put it on the map were billed largely to the Germans."" Yes maybe but don't forget hollingworth that after Germany stuffed up entire countries,caused the death of millions of people and lost the war bringing Stalin's troops and communism in the middle of Europe,it was lying in ruins and it would have been in ruins up this day if the US didn't start the Marshall plan putting over 20 billions in their economy [probably the equivalent of 200 bil today]. Israel exists today to a large extent due to the eviction and extermination of Jews in Europe.Without Nazism and the "Final Solution" most Jews would have partially or completely assimilated in their host societies.The 750 mil Marks they paid to Israel was nothing but a fraction of the assets they confiscated from Jews in Europe anyway and completely insignificant compared to what they received from the allies

Without the Marshall plan, destroyed Germany would not have been able to get back on its feet.

What garbage to reqiure an investigation of the veracity of the Shoah !!! An inquiry as to whether this piece of human wste even has the walnut-size brain of a cat; more likely less.

""What are the Jews so afraid of?"" Ahmadinajad wants to resurrect the old demons which affected Europe for centuries.The old "Jewish Question" which was at the origin of the Holocaust. The Jews perceived as predators and demonized for being killers of Christ,for poisoning the wells,for ritual killings etc. The Jews perceived as dominationg the political,economic and social life of Central and Eastern Europe. A thorough research into the Holocaust will bring all this back and more.An ugly past rather forgotten by most coming back to haunt us. Ahmadinajad wants to revive European antisemitism which-he hopes-will remove European support for Israel without which it will fall like a ripe fruit in his lap.He would like to uncover both to Europeans and Americans the "light" about the Jews, hidden by layers of political correctness so everyone in those countries will think a bit like you hollingworth. It's a very clever and effective strategy used by Hitler once to justify his crime

Your argumentation is silly as it speaks of the obvious. My point is this: despite Ahmadinejad 's inane comments that the Palestinians had nothing to do with the Holocaust, my bringing to this discussion the information that the Palestinian national leadership was in fact very closely collaborating with Nazi Germany at the highest levels, and knew of and aided in the Holocaust. My purpose is also to pose a "what if" question: What if Palestinian politics had not been influenced by one of the 20th century's most murderous ideologies? Would there be an Arab-Israeli conflict? Would Palestinian politics today be so deeply tinged with extremism? Potaboc failed to address these serious questions, taking a polemical approach instead.

Steven, How can an American think that anyone can be embarrassed of their President? President Ahmadinejad is seen in Iran and throughout much of the world with the exception of Israel and the US as a moral, straightforward, honest man which is more than can be said of your immoral, pathetic, mentally-challenged imbecile apology for a man residing in the White House right now. Do you not know that your president is the butt of jokes and hatred everywhere and since you idiots re-elected him, you are all seen in the same light.

remember, not all germans were bad back then and for sure they werent stupid. the good ones were lazy, coward, or overwhelmed. most germans wanted to see the jews being "put in place", not what happened then. even adolf wasnt seriously thinking of the "endlösung" until 2nd WW. in the beginning, many didnt take adolf seriously or thought he would disappear soon. also remember, when there is trouble on the horizon, it always or very often starts with anti-jewish incidents or worse...but it very rarely stops there.

What on earth is your point? Yes there is more documentation on the Holocaust than on the parting of the Red Sea (which allowed the Jews to come into the land of Israel , according to Jewish history/lore. Israel expects the world to believe that God gave them this land based on this very same Jewish lore for which there is no absolute tangible proof yet as you say the Holocaust is well documented as some on the board claim "the best documented event in history." So, what do we have to lose. Let there be an inquiry - let the world see the documents. The truth is the truth. There is no doubt that the ultimate victims of the Nazis are the Palestinians no matter how much we try to invent stories about the Mufti, Palestinians cannot be held in any way accountable for the Holocaust. We, have to face the truth sooner or later - what do we all fear so much about the truth being seen. We have shown the world our story for 60 years and now they are asking questions why not answer them?

Oh my goodness hollingsworth has proof now, what are we going to do, woe is us, they are onto us, the big lie is being exposed. Our whole raison d'etre will be seen as a sham. What should we do, what will we do,how do we make it irrefutable. Damnit, they won't even believe the Germans themselves. they know we paid the Germans to take the fall and hide the fact that REALLY, we killed the nazis and sent Them to the camps. Now hollingsworth knows about the secret 6 million that we spread out throughout the world as undercover agents. Oh no, now he knows about how they multiplied and that there's really 20 million jews in hiding that have their hands on the levers of power world-wide. Oh no, should we let him know that agents are on the way to get him? Do we tell him that we located him through his e-mail and that agents are on the way to stifle him before the rest of the world finds out. Nahhh, it'll be our little secret and nobody will ever no. it's been nice hollingsworth

rav weismandel book is written in classical hebrew, even for me it was quite difficult. how could you read it?

Shalom BG---- beautifully put!

with eyes wide open and you will see the personification of crass ignorance combined with crude antisemitism. You certainly long to the " good old times " when the Holocaust was not questionned but in the making. Sieg HELL, Roberto

Does he really believe he is taken seriously? Is this guy married and does he have children? If so, I feel sorry for them having a clown as husband and father.

6 members will be from iran and other 6 from pa.

..or Canada...Pack a bigggg suitcase...

He was also: -Chairman of the Arab High Commitee, the most powerful executive Arab body in British Mandate Palestine. -Elected President of the Supreme Muslim Council in the Mandate Palestine (wakf funds and Shariah courts) -Elected President of Arab Higher Executive -President of National Assembly -Founder and President of the World Islamic Congress Quite a job description!

#1 Leon has it right. Ignore this fool when it comes to the Holocaust. Writing about this jerk magnifies his importance. He is like a little child seeking attention. By all means deal with his nuclear threat but don't waste valuable space on his holocaust hysterics.

Mendel is getting confused again. For years Jews are saying that what happened in Europe, in the camps, must be known - the facts must be known, never forgotten. Now the silly Persian says "we must investigate what happened to the Jews in Europe". This is good. Agree with him. Make sure that the investigation is open and public and real. So there is trouble over what he says to "wipe" from the map, to be "cleaned" from the map - oh no, not "map", from "history". That Israel is to be wiped not from a "place" but from "time". This does not make me feel better about it. So we can show him that there were six million who were not "wiped from the map", but they were "cleaned from time".

I am in a complete state of puzzlemnt at this "Comrade" Rosgartens bewildering statements that have no connection with socialist thought,history or theory. I have learnt there are elements of fifth columnists along with agent provoctaceurs that have infiltrated this meeting . Will comrades please ignore the frizzy, ginger haired paper seller with wild eyes who stands outside the door shouting " Daily Worker Support the dialectic". Informed comrades have told us he is very confused person who campaigns for a certain Comrade Irving and at the same time believes himself to be a socialist. I hereby move for this deviant comrades expulsion from the party. Will all in favour of this motion please raise their hands.

Absolutely, Mr. Ahmedinejad, probe the living daylights out of it. I know of very little that has been researched more, but if he would like to kick in some financing there is always a good holocaust research project in need of funding. Of all the people to volunteer, who'd of thunk......

Look at his eyes, he looks like an abuser of drugs

You can argue that the Zionist state pre-dated the Holocaust, but you can not argue that the costs to build modern Israel and put it on the map were billed largely to the Germans. The Germans paid them and are still paying them in the form of "reparation" for the Holocaust. If you don't believe me then, perhaps, you will believe Nahum Goldman,long time chairman of the Jewish World Congress. He wrote in 1978: "Without the German reparations that started coming during it first ten years as a state, Israel would not have half of its present infrastructure. All the trains are German, and the same goes for electrical installation and a great deal of Israel's industry."

And this is what a country gets when it elects an uneducated farm boy, he tends to embarrass everyone around him.

"Either we prove him wrong or..." Everything hangs on that "or." It's that "or" that terrifies the Jewish establishment, and explains why in 60 years the subject has never once been discussed dispassionately by competent scholars, whose findings could then be disseminated abroad to the entire world. The very thought terrifies them.

Don't whisper it in forums populated by opinionated Zionists and anti-Semites, shout it in the streets of Tehran, shout it in the United Nations, shout it so that the whole world hears you, shout it until your government represents you! Because until that time comes, your government *does* represent you and your embarrassment won't save you from the consequences of your silence.

"If it is true, then the response to this question should not be solved in Palestine..If it is false, why should such measures be taken against the people of Palestine?" - Ahmadinejad It is distateful to get into an argument with Ahmadinejad. How more so when his basic premise is just wrong. The Holocaust was not the basic reason for the State of Israel's formation. The Balfour declaration (1917) came before the Holocaust. Herzl organized the first Zionist Congress in 1897. The British Mandate was granted by the League of Nations (1922) to create a Jeish state. The Holocaust impressed world opinion even after Britain changed its mind about the Jewish state following the Arab Revolt and WW2. But the main work of building the Yishuv and its political institution took place before the Holocaust. Ahmadinejad should complain to Allah about the unfairness of it all, but the Holocaust was not the reason for the Jewish State.

I think you hit the nail right on the head. And don't forget that as a Holocaust survivor he would be entitled to reparations. He's probably thinking to himself: "Those crafty Jews. Inventing a Holocaust and then collecting all that money and sympathy.."

KUTW - It doesn't matter what you write, or what history documented, or what Haj Amin wrote in his own diary... People like Fatima, Khalid and the rest will never allow themselves to believe certain truths (e.g. Pals owe their ideology to Nazism) because it will shatter their self image. Here's another one for you Fatima while we are on the subject of Pal hero worship. Why does the Arafat family do nothing to give to the Pals right now when they so desperatly need money?? Same reason why Arafat did nothing for the Pals. Arafat needed to cause the Pals misery to get richer and richer and richer. Your faith in these idiots astounds me. Your desire to convince yourself while justifying your beliefs that Pals are on the right side of the equation makes me sick.

After all of that, so what? The war has been over 71 years. The only palestinians who could possibly have any guilt (and there can't be many of them left) are in their late 80s. Are the current palestinians to be held guilty for what their parents (or more likely their grandparents and great grandparenents) did?

actually, no distinction was ever made between "old" and "new" zionism. there has always been zionism since the babylonian expultion. 3 times a day Jews face our eternal capitol in prayer. the prayer is that we will never forget where our roots are. "modern" zionism, as you put it, started when theodore herzel, in covering the dreyfus trial, realized that Jews must band together for survival. that meant a return to the then desolate and barren area of the ME to build their own nation. it was actually a return to zionism. now, it is friday nite and i really must go to shul. once again...shabbat shalom.

And we'll clean Iran's clock if necessary

I propose that the committee be formed by no others than David Irving, London Mayor Ken Livingstone, Mp George Galoway...... and of course Ahmadinejad himself and Leon Rosgarten should be added as members as well.

Many thanks for the fable. It is great and perfectly teaches us what's the matter with the Monkey.:)

We, in Iran, don't support our president's statements on the Holocaust, and we are very ebarrased in front of rhe world!

ahmadinejad come to israel and try spewing your hate in our street and we will hang you and take care of you israeli style you punk.talk is cheap and you are a wimp or is it a chimp

Adolf Eichmann?s deputy Dieter Wisliceny testified at the Nuremberg Trials that Hajj Amin al-Husseini "was one of the initiators of the systematic extermination of European Jewry and had been a collaborator and adviser of Eichmann and Himmler in the execution of this plan. He was one of Eichmann?s best friends and had constantly incited him to accelerate the extermination measures." At Auschwitz, al-Husseini reportedly "admonished the guards running the gas chambers to work more diligently." After the defeat of the Axis powers, Hajj Amin al-Husseini escaped indictment as a war criminal at Nuremberg by fleeing to Egypt, where he received political asylum and where he met the young Yasser Arafat, his distant cousin, who became a devoted protégé?to the point that the PLO recruited former Nazis as terrorist instructors. Up until the time of his death, Arafat continued to pay homage to the Grand Mufti as his hero and mentor. This unholy legacy continues. Hajj Amin al-Husseini has inspired two generations of radical Islamic leaders to carry on Hitler?s war against the Jews, which is why today, as was true 60 years ago, it is not the Catholic Church that is the great threat to the survival of the Jewish people; it is Islamofascism. Hitler's Mufti, Not Hitler's Pope, by David G. Dalin

It is possible to trace modern Islamic anti-Semitism back along a number of different historical and intellectual threads, but, no matter which one you choose, they all seem to pass, at one point or another, through the hands of Hajj Amin al-Husseini?Hitler?s Mufti. In late March 1933, al-Husseini contacted the German consul general in Jerusalem and requested German help in eliminating Jewish settlements in Palestine?offering, in exchange, a pan-Islamic jihad in alliance with Germany against Jews around the world. It was not until 1938, in the aftermath of British Prime Minister Neville Chamberlain?s infamous capitulation to Hitler at Munich, that Hajj Amin al-Husseini?s overtures to Nazi Germany were officially reciprocated. But by then the influence of Nazi ideology had already grown significantly throughout the Arab Middle East. Several of the Arab political parties founded during the 1930s were modeled after the Nazi party, including the Syrian Popular Party and the Young Egypt Society, which were explicitly anti-Semitic in their ideology and programs. The leader of Syria?s Socialist Nationalist Party, Anton Sa?ada, imagined himself an Arab Hitler and placed a swastika on his party?s banner. Though he was the Grand Mufti of Jerusalem, al-Husseini moved his base of operations (and pro-Nazi propaganda) to Lebanon in 1938, to Iraq in 1939 (where he helped establish the strongly pro-German Rashid Ali al-Gaylani as prime minister), and then to Berlin in 1941.

What a boring clown he is!

Fatima, It's amazing how hard you are trying to deceive yourself. FACT - Arabs in palestine supported the Nazis. The Grand Mufti toured Aushwitz and helped develop the final solution. This is well documented in the Grand Mufti's own diary!!!!! Secondly, the Pals (your buddies) consider him their hero.

This is a tale of a monkey called Mahmoud who happened to live in Iran. Mahmoud was a very clever little monkey, always thinking how he could get himself noticed no only in his tribe but also in the entire jungle. One day, he had a brilliant plan: "I will simply dispute and deny something that everyone knows to be a fact" he said, with a contented smirk on his hairy little face. The next day he was pontering what his subject should be when his eyes were bothered by the sunlight. "I know, he said, I will question whether the Sun really exists." In his new position as the head of his tribe, Mahmoud the Monkey started to cry out loudly for everyone to hear "The Sun is a fraud. It is not really here. We are just all imaging this heat and light." "The Westerners are trying to sell it to us as real." Well, everyone know that Mahmoud Ahmadinejad the Monkey was talking a load of rubbish. But still, people all over the jungle DID listen to him shouting. And THAT was the point!

Right. He might be studying Judaims and Hebrew. So when it is convenient for him, he can say he's a Holocaust survivor and has the right to live in Europe, where his ancestors were killed and he had to flee. Once in Europe, if he managed to fool the Europeans, he would try to establish an Islamofascist regime, like that of Iran. Don't you think he could be planning it?

zionism is 3000 years old and relates to babylonian jews in exile .

I'm so bored with this guy already I could hang myself.

Act fastand catch him with his pants down!

continued) in the mid 1800's and not 58 years ago. i may need to be educated but i notice that your education is severly lacking in post mideval history. maybe you too should seek council. shabbat shalom all.

Interesting what you latch onto and what you dismiss out of hand, Fatma. Bet you love the Naturei Karta boys. Your kind of Jews.

i checked my records paul and ..hey, you're 100% correct. iranians are not arabs! but they are muslems as you so brilliantly stated. now, no one seems to be able to live with the muslems. hindus, buddists, christians have all tried and failed. so the Jews are not alone. the sephardim, as you noted, are refugees from mostly arab and other muslem countries. but because they feared for their lives, they came to the one place in the world where they could live, work and worship in freedom. refugees are known to go where they will be accepted. all that is accept for arab refugees (of which there are 600,000 by accepted world standards). you have, however, made an historical error. the building of the Jewish state does not go back 58 years. for over 2000 years Jews have lived in Jerusalem. ever since the romans changed the name from Judea to palestine. they may have been a minority, but they were there. modern history, and the repatriation of the Jewish state, (contineded)

Let’s have an impartial inquiry, because if you simply keep telling the man to hush, as if you are Implying the truthfulness of his statements!!!

There was a land and country called Israel WAY before there ever was a Palestine (which was an arab and jewish entity by the way). Israel was not "created" solely because of the holocaust (don't you know who Theodore Herzl was? I guess they don't cover that in the Ramallah Elementary School. Why don't you stop complaining and build yourself a country like the Israelis have (including Israeli Arabs). Is this too difficult for you to do? What, then you wouldn't have any more excuses to do some hard work for a change.

I call for an impartial probe of the mental state of amahdi.

Gee, I think that's called "covering your bets". Smart guy that Ahmadinejad. Pretty sure he's studying Judaism and learning Hebrew surreptitiously. You know........just in case.......

This actually might serve to end anti-semitic conspiracy theories etc... in the muslimm nations. Really, take him up on his offer. These are the people that YOU need to convince with facts, not the people of Los Angeles or Washington DC. The more I think about this the better it sounds. I think the people of Israel should really think about this offer. there is so much silver lining in it, it is just hard to see coming from its source. It is by far better than war!!!!!!!

That maniac Ahmadinaldinak has no right whatsoever to lay his blood stained hands on anything having to do with the Holocaust. Let him look into his own insanity and his country's totalitarian mullahs and the torture and murder they perpetuate world-wide. He is a madman and obviously has no sense of his own fragility and tenuous hold on this life.

100% in agreement with you, but why not fight this with his own tools. Let him do it and hold him to be "impartiial". Then he will have to answer his real questions to the people of Iran.......

Hello, Jacob Blues. I would like to know what you mean. Maybe I could do something.

the ignorance of "mad in the head" appears to be overwhelming. he does not appear to know that the bulk of israels jews are today sephardim and refugees from muslim countries. also that the jewish homeland dates from 1922. the arab lies for 58 yeasr are all thta he appaears to have collected and hsi first job should be someone who can educte him on the history of the region!

It was not just sympathy. Mufti Husseini suggested Hitler apply the "final solution" in Palestine and spent the war recruiting Muslims for the German army.

"An event that has influenced so many diplomatic and political equations of the world needs to investigated and researched by impartial and independent groups," The man is right. What are the Jews so afraid of?

Put me down for the particle physics tests. I think that some of the Warner Bros' film archives provides testing instructions from their 'certified' super-genious.

THE BALFOUR DECLARATION WAS IIN 1917 THE MANDATE FOR A JEWISH HOMELAND WAS IN 1922 THE HOLOCAUST 1940-1945 SO JOE GO BACK TO SCHOOL!

I got his "impartial probe" right here. Someone call Nurse Ratchett to the Therani operatory, stat!

No one is questioning whether or not Hariri was murdered... or how. What the inquiry is trying to figure out is...'who dun it'. That's a mystery. With the Holocaust, Prime Minister Ahamdinejad, is saying, we knew who did it, we know how they did it. But we just don't think it happened.

MOHAMMED ALL OF THE REMARKS MADE BY "MAD IN THE HEAD" ARE RELATED TO A RELIGION THAT HAS NO BASIS IN FACT OR REALITY!!! SO THE FIRST THING TO BE INVESTIGATED BY AN INDEPENDENT BODY IS ISLAM!! THE QURAN BEING A HOTCH POTCH OF DIFFERENT AUTHORS OVER 4 CENTURIES.

But it does get annoying after a while to have people question the existance and extent of the Shoah, when there are survivors still walking around with the tatoos on their arms from the Concentration camps. Its akin to walking up to an elderly African American and stating that there really wasn't that much slavery or racism in the United States during the past 200+ years.

The palestinians may have symphathised with the nazis , because they were the enemi of their enemi but you know fully well they had no means , no money to do anything . the Japs and the Italians and even many Germans (right now retired for the german Govsernement )contributed . have you heard of the book called MIN HAMEITZAR by Rabbi Weissmandl He speaks about the Brutal role of the zionists and collaboration and the milions that could have been saved . Much like Mordechain Ben Porat the Bomber .

for an "objective" analysis of the Holocaust. Does it include per-diem expenses as well or is more of a retainer position?

Virtually all Jews from Western Europe who suffered under the Nazis were DEAD in 1945. They don't need a home, they already have one - underground. Why is this so difficult for people to grasp?

Here's a practical solution . . . Since AchmedJihad is so concerned about the plight of the Palestinians, and has made it a subject of nearly every speech, why doesn't he solve the problem by giving the Palestinians a homeland in Iran - given the size of his country and the relatively low population density, AchmedJihad could give the Palestinans a country three times the size of Israel - and a country with oil rights to boot. Given that choice, I am sure that the Palestinians would be happy to establish a State in a country more hospitable to the ideals of Hamas. AchmedJihan would have solved the entire middle east problem in one step. Go for it AchmedJihad!!!

Most people in Europe think the Iranian president is an idiot.

can an arab be impartial. how much more impartial do you want than the admission of the deed by those who committed it? arabs have been lying to the world and committing atrocities on each other long before the fabricated deir yassin fiasco up until the arab on arab slaughter last week on a gaza beach.

They universally considered it a disaster. If you kill all the Jews, there is not really a need for a Jewish state. As for the "guilt", the West supposed felt before "giving" Palestine to Israel; I make the same challenge as always: Name one senior member any Western state in any position who expresses anything resembling guilt for the Holocaust between 1945 and 1949. Just one.

I think we need to have proof that Muhammed rode his horse into the sky above Jerusalem like in the Greek/Roman myths. If we get this proof, it doesn't mean that the Islam problem should be solved by giving Jerusalem to the Arabs. If we don't get this proof, then why should the Jewish people suffer with the Arab invasion of its land?

The Speilberg Syndrome is mainly comprised of the following symptom: Israel exists because of world sympathy due to what happened to Jews in the Holocaust. The Syndrome marginalizes the perpetual Jewish connection to the Land of Israel, known in ancient times as Judea. The Romans re-branded the land “Palestine” as punishment for the Jewish revolt against Rome. A punishment that still carries heavy weight today. So what does all this have to do with Ahmadinejad and the Spielberg Syndrome? As powerful as Shindler's List was, Spielberg tattooed into millions of brains worldwide that Israel exists on world sympathy alone. The heart wrenching music pleads "feel sorry for us Jews and allow us to exist in a land, over there". The impact of the film easily reached Teheran and now Ahmadinejad plans to undue it's premise. After Shindler's List the Spielberg Syndrome made Jews feel good for a while but like all syndromes it is deeply flawed and attracts lunatics like Ahmadinejad.

On the one hand, he says Holocaust didn?t exist. On the other hand, he says Holocaust was perpetrated by Europe.

or just an invention? Research should be made to demonstrate he exists.