U.S. Presbyterians urge government to end Israel aid over settlements
Presbyterian Church publishes report on Middle East issues that was approved with 82% of the vote during the church's annual general assembly in Minneapolis.
By The Associated Press Tags: Israel news Israel settlements US JewsPresbyterian leaders strongly backed a proposal Friday calling for the U.S. government to end aid to Israel unless the country stops settlement expansions in disputed Palestinian territories. The move was immediately criticized by Jewish groups.
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Delegates at the General Assembly of the Presbyterian Church meeting on Israeli settlement construction in Minneapolis July 9, 2010 |
| Photo by: AP |
But other aspects of the report on Middle East issues adopted by delegates of the Presbyterian Church (U.S.A.) earned qualified praise from pro-Israel organizations, which have long taken issue with various Presbyterian statements on Middle East peace.
The report is meant as a guide for the denomination's more than 2 million members in many facets of the Israeli-Palestinian relationship. It was approved with 82 percent of the vote during the church's annual general assembly in Minneapolis.
"We feel we've brought together people who previously had trouble talking about some of these issues together," said the Rev. Karen Dimon of Northminster Presbyterian Church in North Syracuse, N.Y., and chairwoman of the committee that produced the 172-page report.
Ethan Felson, vice president of the Jewish Council for Public Affairs, said he still took issue with major aspects of the report, but said it contained important signals that could lessen long-standing tension between Presbyterians and pro-Israel Jews. He said it strengthens support for Israel's right to exist and removes comparisons of Israeli policy to apartheid.
"Concerns remain, but I have hope that authentic dialogue and better relations can come of this," Felson said.
The Anti-Defamation League said the report managed to avoid a rupture with Jewish people, but bias against Israel continues.
The Protestant denomination's relationship with Jewish groups took a hit in 2004, when its general assembly voted to authorize phased selective divestment in multinational corporations operating in Israel because of Israel's policies toward Palestinians. That stance has since been softened, and this year convention delegates voted down an amendment to the Middle East report that would have put divestment back on the table.
Despite the strong convention vote, some delegates expressed concern that the Middle East report remained too slanted toward a Palestinian perspective.
"There are many longtime friends in the Jewish community who believe this report misstates Jewish theology and misquotes the Jewish voice," said the Rev. Susan Zencka, pastor at Frame Memorial Presbyterian Church in Stevens Point, Wisconsin. "We have come to a position of Palestine good, Israel bad. Life is not that simple."
But supporters stressed that the overarching goal of the report is to encourage activism toward peace in the Middle East.
"I fully support a state of Israel, but I also believe Israel's peace will not come until they seek peace with Palestinians," said Dottie Villesvik, a church elder from Everett, Washington.
The church's annual convention began July 3, and is scheduled through Saturday.
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If people feel that "Palestinians are good, & Israelis are bad" its largely because Israelis have failed to put forward their point of view. They must expalin that MANY Israelis are REFUGEES from Islamic lands. They should call their developmental townships like Sderot "REFUGEE CAMPS"...... They should ecplain that the ROOT CAUSE of the problems is the occupation...THE ISLAMIC OCCUPATION!!!
For the various Talkbackers who have posited that the American public quietly supports Israel's policies with respect to the Palestinians, it doesn't get much more mainstream in the U.S. than the Presbyterians. If Israelis continue to support territorial expansion against what the world at large considers justice, American support for Israel will continue to erode--at some point there WILL be a groundswell of public sentiment in favor of cutting off foreign aid to Israel.
once again the 'useful idiots' send aid and comfort to the theocratic muslims who would stone them.
When you go against Israel you go against Jehovah, the God of Israel. Israel is the root to the Christian faith. Good luck trying to convince the Lord to stand by and let that happen. The whole world is being judged right now. We seem to have no fear of God our Father in heaven. To our own demise. May God have mercy on us all..
your words are no diffrent than Bin Ladens` or so-called `Muslim` Al ~Qaide`s public speeches.
The presbyterian church/denomination does have a few Bible believing churches in its ranks, but this is not because the presbyterian church wants them there. In the early part of the 20th century there was a movement called "Neo Orthedoxy" which the presbyterians and many other mainline denomination embraced. This new/neo theology abanded the before hand held Biblical beliefs of Biblical authority, inerancy and infallibility. The presbyterians and others began to throw out things like the virgin birth of messiah Is 14:7. The need for a sacrifice for sins. Dan. 9:24 and many other basic fundimental core beliefs of the Bible. Today the presbyterians are mostly apsotate. So any support of Israel on their part is completely out of charecter for them. Conversly their joint oppsition to Israel stems from their unbelief in God's word. Israel is in their land because God has put them there. EZ 36:22 through Ez 37 is being fullfilled before our eyes. God is not through with Israel and never will be. He keeps His promises in spite of us and our short comings. Anyway 82 percent voted anti Israel. That sounds about right. I am suprised it was'nt higher. Presbyterians are not evangelicals. Most of them are not christians. They are part of the great last days apostasy prior to the time of Jacobs troubles. 2 Thess. 2:3, Matt 24:10 like in the days of Jeremiah Jer 8:5 only in the last days it is the whole worlds it is the church which was a mystery to Israel the even though the church age was prophesied in throguh the jewish prophets. Some of those prophesies are found in the Isaiah. Is 11:10 Is 42:6 IS 49:6 Is 52:10 In Is 52:15 God syas He will sprinkle the nations. I will conclude with this Is 43:11 "I,even I am the Lord, and there is NO SAVIOR besides me." May God bless Jeruselum with peace today. Shalom Yerushalyim
Now that Israel has joined the OECD 'rich country' club, why does it still expect aid from the U.S.? Rich countries don't panhandle each other. Israel needs to grow up and stop rattling the beggar cup.
Considering the Church's have created this problem by blaming the Jews for killing Jesus, I am surprised the evangelicals are siding with the Israeli's It is only a matter of time before Israel is alone in the world, and when that happens it is a good thing that they have nukes and chemical and biological weapons because they did not create this disaster themselves
They want the temple rebuilt, the antichrist (Israeli leader) to seat himself on the throne in the temple, while the false prophet does his miracles and the world thinks all is good. These evangelical zionists will support Israel until that day. And then, they will gleefully wait for Jesus to return to Jeruslam, and destroy all the 'fake Jews'. Yes the Evangelicals will continue to support Israeli Jews, right up until the day that they hope to watch those Israeli Jews burn in God's fire. Yes, religious nuts, all of them. Who cares who they support ,,,
The prebysterians are wrong,very wrong...They are most probably dreaming of an "outreach" to the "moslem world" or cowtowing to them...They must REMEMBER THAT THE ENTIRE USA WAS BUILT AND DEVELLOPED BY SETTLERS...IF IT WAS GOOD FOR THE WHITE MAN IN THE USA IT IS GOOD FOR THE JEWISH PEOPLE IN ISRAEL...MOREOVER, THE WHITE SETTLERS IN THE USA TOOK LANDS THAT DIDN'T BELONG TO THEM BEFORE...IN ISRAEL,THE JEWS ARE SETTLING LANDS THAT BELONGED TO THE JEWISH PEOPLE FOR MILLENIA AND NEVER DEVELLOPED BY ANYBODY ELSE...
Listen to yourself. Because Johnny did it it's OK for me too. Grow up.
So let me see if I have this straight....... Crimes against Native Americans by American Pioneers is a rationale for what the Settlers are doing is the West Bank? That the actions of the settlers are justified because other acts of evil have happened in the past? Well, it's nice to see that you identify the Settlers as evil.
Yes, actually, in the end it is.
the presbyterian church reflects prejudices born of a locack of scholarship, replete with superficiality and simplistic to the core. No wonder they are a dying church
it took so long until they started to notice that supporting Israel means supporting illegal occupation, land theft, crimes against humanity and warmongering
Friends - I am a Presbyterian, was at the Assembly and have read both the orginal and the amended Report. The above article was taken from an early and less than informed AP wire report. For a more balanced report see the LA Times. http://www.latimes.com/news/nationworld/world/middleeast/la-na-presbyterian-mideast-20100710,0,5357666.story This whole story is about how the PC(USA) is informing it's members of how to study this long standing and difficult issue. The attempt is not to pick sides, but to encourage respect of involved parties. Policy and practice of the PC(USA) had been less than helpful in the recent past - and had taken an anti-Israel slant. Perhaps we do tend to see it as more of a human rights issue than other things - but the report is significant in that it changes not only the dialogue but also how we move forward. Please don't see this as bad for Israel. The report specifically states Israel rights to exist as a soveriegn nation. Shalom
You "Christians" stopped reading and believing in the Bible, It wasn't bad enough that in '82 your group stopped believing in the deity of Yeshua! What this bunch has to do with Christianity I have NO IDEA, and their position on Israel is just as absurd.
They need to read their Bible and suport Israel,Beware Genesis 12 v 3
Yes, this is true: the policy of colonization of the occupied territories is wrong, its goal is to make separation, establishing of Palestinian state and therefore Jewish democratic state, too, impossible and this policy should be confronted by friends of Israel. I think, that it's important to apply pressure on Israel to end settlements while at the same time affirming Israel's right to exist and to defend itself. Thanks, Presbyterians.
The Methodists, Lutherans, Catholics, Orthodox Christians, Baptists, and Anglicans, and even Reverend Wright are against the blockade and settlements on occupied land. But Israel still has Hagee's Armageddon Mega-Church on its side.
with friends like this, who needs enemies? Israel should pay more attention to organizations like Rabbis for Human Rights, rather than imprison them, or call them self-hating, for defending the best of Judaism against the worst of Zionism
I remember when the central committee of the PCUSA visited Hezbollah in Lebanon and tried to perpetrate a boycott of Israel back in '04. A tremendous upswelling from the member churches, including an online petition with thousands of signatories, many of whom were elders of their churches, arose to squash this radical move. Supporting Muslim terrorism and opposing the one country in the region that is tolerant of Jewish and Christian faiths is insane, and does nothing to build ties with the Jewish community and other moderate Christians. These empty claims about "justice" come out of either gross ignorance or willful anti-Semitism. I hope the rank and file of the PCUSA will recognize these radicals for what they are and expunge them from the church's leadership. Could this be one of many reasons the membership in the Presbyterian Church is dropping so drastically, and many of the Presbyterian Churches are breaking away from the Presbyterian USA Church? Figures released in June by the Louisville, Kentucky-based church show the denomination had 2,405,311 active and confirmed members at the end of 2003, a drop of 46,658 from 2002--the largest proportional decline since 1983.
I am Presbyterian and I am ashamed of what our General Assembly did. They do not reflect the views of most of us. They think that "social justice" entitles them to use human judgment, with all its weakness and flaws, to condemn Israel. The General Assembly should try to be more like Jesus...showing love and reaching out to the Palestinians while also loving the Jews. We are not able to judge others like Jesus...but we can at least try to love like him.
My hat off for the Presbyterian church! I wish the the Evangelicals become realistic too!
and i wish that the palestinians become realistic. and stop threatening israel's right to exist--even only verbally.
Get some information on the subject. celine k. Who is the agressor here? BINGO
... and is a somewhat weird sect at that. Just another group of hopefuls petitioning their government for some kind of favorable action. Now, if it was that church in Kentucky that plays around with rattlesnakes, then I would start circling the wagons.
Why then do you think they get head lined in Haaretz..? Beacuse they express a minority opinion? Wouldnt think so...
Mr. Jasper should read the religion statistics before emotionally responding.
It's none of your business Presbyterian denomination!!! You can't take care of your own business, so how can you tell someone else how or what to do.
So shut up and pay up Presbies. LOL!
I'm not a Presbyterian, I'm a Jew. I don't even know what characterizes that denomination. However, I know this: they're Americans, and as Americans their money goes, via the federal government, to funding Israel, every year. It is their right to petition our government, which is using our money, to cancel aid to Israel if it continues settlement expansion. As an American, I am quite pissed that my money is being GIVEN to radicals that give my people a bad name so that they can continue to seize more and more land as more and more Palestinians are evicted from their homes. And that's the truth, no bias is in that (unless condemning collective punishment is 'bias', in which case I am proud of my bias towards human rights and the ethics of my faith). So yeah, it is every American's business.
Please read either a TANAKH or a Christian Bible. As a Hebrew Christian in the US, I can tell you that it is very clear in either version that the land belongs to Israel. I was a secular Jew/Agnostic for a long time. But the more faith I have, & the more I study my Bible and worship, the more I understand about what's happening in the world & why. Personally I think the Bible believing Christian & Messianic Jewish explanations make more sense than the Rabbinical Jewish interpretations. But at least read a TANAKAH & accept that Genesis is true - that's the first step.
As a non-religious German, I consider it my duty to fight against radicals that give your people a bad name, and I willingly pay the prize of being defamed as an anti-Semite or neo-Nazi. Hopefully, the German government will do the same, as supported by many German taxpayers and voters, including German Jews and Muslims, and regardless of the smear campaign that is sure to follow any German criticism of Israel.
The entire New Covenant is a Declaration of Israel's Ownership of Israel. The entire Old Covenant is also a Declaration of Israel's Ownership of Israel. Those who don't Understand this are ignorant of the True meaning of the Bible.
Nor the Tanakah, nor de Koran... they are all fables made up by people to try to understand their surroundings and create a set of beliefs that would reinforce their societies. You religious fundamentalist aren't any different than christian or muslim religious fundamentalists.
Another example of how destructive the settlements enterprise is - to any hope of the peace process, to our great friend and ally, the US, by politicizing Judaism itself to an unrecognizable degree, and to the State of Israel itself. Come to your senses!!
At least they are not so called "end timers" like the evangelicals who pray for the rapture so that Jesus can come down from the Heavens. For those Jews who refuse to believe then they will have their heads cut off.
The Christian theology does NOT state that Jews who refuse to believe in Jesus as the Messiah will have their heads cut off. If you read the book of Daniel, El Elyon's Prophet, in a Christian Bible (NASB is a good version) you will see where another "Antiochus IV Epiphanes" is coming. G-d used King Nebuchadnezzar's demand that everyone worship the golden IMAGE that he created. Daniel, Hananiah, Mishael, and Azariah (Jews) refused to worship the image. Nebuchadnezzar tried to kill them (all but Daniel) but G-d saved them because of their faith. Daniel speaks of a "prince" who is to come. The Christian Bible says this "prince" is the Anti-Messiah (Anti-Christ). He will have a False Prophet who pushes the creation of an IMAGE that will be placed in the Holy of Holies. The False Prophet will then demand that everyone in the entire world worship the IMAGE as "god". Those (Jew & Gentile) who refuse to worship the IMAGE will be killed. The False Prophet will also insist that everyone who worships the IMAGE take the MARK of the "prince" or they won't be able to buy or sell. In the Christian Bible it also states that when this Anti-Messiah reveals himself (ie, the IMAGE in the Temple) Israel (Jews) will flee to the hills where G-d has a place set up for them where they will be protected. However, it does not say that all Jews will flee. The final prophecies in the Christian Bible are quite confusing. I think it would be difficult for any theologian/scholar to be exactly correct. However, the bottom line in Daniel is that a false "prince" is coming who will defile the Temple, and no one should worship his IMAGE. Obviously the Temple will need to be rebuilt before this can happen. But with some type of a "peace" agreement I imagine the Temple will be rebuilt soon. I don't know whether it will be built according to the specifications in the bood of Ezekiel or not.
that when one is "killed" because they didn't worship the IMAGE or take the MARK they are only dying an earthly death. The False Prophet (? false Elijah) will have the ability to perform "miraculous" signs that will convince many to worship the IMAGE. However, there will be other "witnesses" who will tell the truth to teach people that the "prince" is false & should not be worshipped. So those who listen to the TWO WITNESSES and refuse to worship the IMAGE will die on earth but have life with G-d in Heaven. So getting one's head cut off because they DON'T WORSHIP the IMAGE is a good thing. And this applies to people in the entire world.
Methodist churches in the UK have voted to boycott settlement goods. Many more such actions will follow.
Now the only action which really matters is when the Palestinians finally accept a state.
a state with the 67 borders with dignity and freedom or the israeli version of a pal state... which is eaten up in chunks by settlements, aparthied roads, the water stolen. like bantustans.... whats your version of a pal state? the former version has already been accepted./ the problem lies with israel....
and im glad to add: products from westbank must be marked by westbank so everybody can see where it comes from...
Anyway to avoid the real issue? Get over it. Give the Palestinians the peace they deserve. Give them back their land. Go back to the NYC or Germany.
from whence they were captured in 67. ther is no palestine there are egyptians in gaza and jordanians in west bank. they dont even like each other.
more jews were evicted from muslim countries than arabs from israel. they should go to the homes of the jews that were expelled. The arab marauders from arabia have no rights to israel just as the scot plants from uk have no right to north ireland
Remember, Presbyters, God will bless those who bless Israel, and He will curse those who curse Israel. Think hard before calling on our government to stop aid to Israel.
All believers better keep praying for and supporting Israel.
Any god who would prefer Jews would be outed as a complete asshole, a jerk. So is hashem a decent god, who knows how a worthy god behaves, or just a fraud? We'll see. Anyway, just what Isrealis don't understand: You don't get loved by torror.
So I can NEVER condemn Israel? What if Israel decided that it wanted to segregate Ashkenazis and Sephardim in education, housing, and work? What if Israel decided that anyone with any gentile blood should be stripped of citizenship? What if Israel decided to start murdering the elderly? Support Israel no matter what, even when it goes against Jewish law? How can you believe something like that?
Dont eclose urself in the word "Isreal". God never says to evict ppl from their home to make a country call Isreal. if ur God says so. then HE is not a GOD. In my understanding, God will bless them who bless who borned in the land so called ISREAl and PA .doesnt matter they r Muslim, Christian or Jews. You r brining curse from God by evicting ppl from their own land and bringing ppl from other countries who r only Jews....History says.,that rules doesnt last long who is the cuz of suffer for others. So i will tell to you,,"God will bless those who bless Israel, and He will curse those who curse Israel". Reform yourself !!!
The social political environment that jews expects the Palestinians to accept is one under which, should the parties be reversed, the Jewish people would never accept.
"I fully support a state of Israel, but I also believe Israel's peace will not come until they seek peace with Palestinians," Its none of her business.. http://cifwatch.com/2010/07/05/when-you-sup-with-the-devil/
Once Israel stops taking their tax dollars, it ceases to be their business.
It sure is there business as well as every Americans business. It is time to cut off the money. Now the US Government borrows the money to give to Israel. so the USA taxpayer is paying interest on this money..hmmm
If the US would stop meddling in Israeli arms exports Israel would not need US dollars. Their weapon systems are on par with Boeing's and McDonnel Douglas'
Just a list of ther settlements: New York City Turkey in Cyprus Russia in Chechnia England in the Falklands and Northern Ireland Kurdistan by Turkey and Iraq Spain in Africa (Cueta and Melila) and the Canary Islands Austraila Canada, both French and English
You seem to imply the settlements you list are wrong or immoral or however you would care to phrase it. If it is wrong for them to behave like that, why isn't it also wrong for Israel?
it should be an idol to u
...in which of those instances you list is control over the territory exercised by the country named but where the local population is deemed to be of the wrong ethnicity to allow for full civil and political rights to be afforded it? Take your time George! Sit down and have a cup of tea if you need it. take a long walk and come back refreshed and give me your answer....Prick!
World is more complicated than black and white statements, the situation in Israel demands more than simply being pro-Palestinian or pro-Israel, it's finding a middle ground where people can talk and standing vigilant against those who destroy
Israel should realize there are new trending of people voice up from US and Europe.
Israel realizes that the Presbytarians never supported them, but that the vast majority of Americans do.
Previously they are not support neither oppose. But now there are opposed, one step further...
We support Israel, not all of it's actions. And not unwaveringly.
If you support Israel but not all its actions). Is there some point at which that support will be weakened or disappear? This isn't a trick question. I don't understand how one can say not all its actions. if you support Israel, no matter what it does, you support all its actions because you make whatever it does cost free.
pc, do you really expect me to lay down my weapons when tarek is just itching to send my children back to Auschwitz? fyi tarek, i came from king david's israel of 3000+ years, and to there i will go back, never having forgotten my jerusalem from which the romans forcibly expelled me.
you know, living in america, i notice that most people who call themselves christians do not follow the words of their christ. i've always found it odd, as a non-christian, because they act like they're so religious while entirely ignoring their own holy books. the presbyterian, united church of christ, anglican, and episcopal churches all defy that rule. they are welcoming of everyone regardless of race, gender, or sexual orientation, they do not put their own kind before others, they feed the hungry, they fight injustice. if only more could be like them, rather than the pseudo-christians that seem to number in the billions.
Christianity is complicated like Rabbinal Judaism is. There are groups within groups & they don't all agree. The Christian denominations you mention all teach what is known in Christendom as "replacement theology". There are Gentiles & Jews who believe Jesus is the Messiah, & they are the Christians. "The Church" is this body of believers, Gentiles & Jews, that believe "Echad" is a plural word & there are 3 aspects of G-d. (Jesus is the Messiah who sits at the Right hand of the Father, & there is also a Holy Spirit). The word "Israel" is used throughout the Christian Bible in both the Old & New Testaments. The denominational & even some evangelical churches replace the term "Israel" in the New Testament with the term 'The Church'. They think that G-d no longer has a plan for Israel, only The Church. They think that is no longer important that G-d called Jacob Israel. They think the promises made to the Hebrew Patriarchs are no longer valid. Therefore, the land of Israel is no longer promised to the descendants of Abraham, Isaac, & Jacob. And the G-d (the plural Echad) they claim to believe in no longer has a special plan for Israel/the Jews. So, they buy into the Palestinian propaganda. I can tell you, as a Hebrew Christian, the meaning of the word "Israel" never changed from Old Testament (TANAKH) to New Testament. Their theology is wrong. Not all the Presbyterians & Anglicans are Liberals - many are conservatives. And although they teach a replacement theology, they do stick to other Biblical principles. However, the Episcopal Church leaders don't even believe the Bible is true & that's why they have homosexual leaders. Any Christian can read a Bible and know who the land of Israel belongs to. But there are many false churches & false prophets.
When a Jew from Florida sells their home in Bradonton they have a large lump sum of money to begin a new life in a West Bank settlement. A Palestinian is forced to leave their home with little or no compensation. Even if they tolerated the Zionist claim that as Arabs they should live East of the Galleli with the other Arabs, how can they start over having lost their families primary asset. What American jew would sacrifice their home, uncompensated, and agree to forfiet the value to a Palestinian?
Annmarie: Any 'religion' which promotes intolerance, murder, theft and moral degradation is just blind fanaticism and the twisting of the true meaning of spirituality. Many people simply suppress their own own fears through such 'religions'.
At saying what is at the core of the New Testament Jesus, who I have to believe would have been more interested in dealing decently with each other than all the denominational sophistry and hair splitting. Like it or not Presbyterian Christianity seems to be connected with the fact that Presbyterians are human beings capable of seeing the humanity of other people. Very basic Jesus.