IDF to Palestinians: Bring forth Gaza war complaints

...and IDF whitewash is simply unacceptable. It would have been far easier had Israel simply cooperated in the first place. If it had, it would not look so guilty as it does now. And of course, the facts contained within the report cry out for justice, even the IDF noticed...

Name me one nation who rejcted peaceufull Un resolitiojn of 1947 and started 48 56 67 73 wars on Israel I can give a guess let me herar u ok you dont want to tell us it was all muslim nations. Why is it ok for Muslims to rejct Un resoluitons and start war on Israel but Israel must keep all Un Resolution. Incidently there was no occupation in 1947 there was no occupation in 1917 when Arab Legue refused balfour declaration there was no occupation when Grand Mufti of Jerusalem joined Hitler Occupation is a myth creared by MUslims and the UN

Khaled Are you serious to say that Hamass should investigate Israel ? Khaled how many Jews did you want 12,000+ rockerts to kill ?

Johnboy Are you ok with Hamass investigating themselfs or u just have problems with Israel investigating themselfs ?

to keep the promise you made First things first, you show me yours, I'll show you mine

Like most of the world, I recognise Israel's right to exist securely behind its pre-1967 borders. Like most of the world, I don't recognise Israel's right to keep the Pals in permanent semi-captivity. The thing is Pete, I don't think the IDF is anywhere like the worst army in the world for abusing civilians. In fact, I don't think it's that bad at all. What I do think, however, is that it has been tasked by the Israeli public and government to do something fundamentally immoral, and that is keep the entire Pal people as captive hostages until they succumb to the peace deal that Israel wants to impose on them. In that context, pretty much anything the IDF does on the WB and in Gaza is wrong. It's like if a cop assualts a thief while trying to stop him escaping, it's probably not a crime. However, if the thief assaults a cop while trying to escape then it is a crime. It's not just the actions, it's the context of the actions.

Israel is doing what the UN asked, but the only consequence will probably be that the IDF does damage to itself as long as Hamas abstains from conducting a truthful investigation.

"The report accuses the Israeli government of acting against the civilian population and of punishing activities" Now where does it say that this the Israeli government is being excluded and investigation confined to the IDF? When is Hamas going to ask Israeli civillians to present their grievances overr 10000 + Qassams? When is the intelligencia going to give them the benefit of their gratuitous advice?

Stop the lies and other distortions and bring the two Islamofascist criminals Haniyeh and Meshaal to the ICC in the Hague ,where they can compare notes with the butcher of Sudan ,on who,s killed the most infidels ,whether it be in Darfur ,Mogad ishu,Nairobi,Mombassa,Mumbai ,London,Madrid ,Fort Hood in Texas and elsewhere.

Gaza or Hamastan is Egyptian sovereignty so why don,t the Egyptians exercise control there ,because the brotherhood back in Cairo is the main instigator of all these problems ,but Hosni and son Gamal are to busy lining their pockets with American taxpayers dollars to even care about corrupt border guards or the re-opening of Rafah border crossing ,their pantries are stocked to the rafters courtesy of the UNRWA ,which allows the theft of donated goods from it,s warehouses,throuh tunnels into Gaza ,this way plenty criminals are benefiting from American/European taxpayers dollars ,yet Israel is the problem,an insane ,hypocritical world ,aint it?

Didn,t the Ughurs ,Muslim trouble makers ,recently go on the rampage killing the indigenous Han in China or is this a figment of your imagination,linfei?

Palestinians in Gaza ,since when and why there of all places as their mandated state is Jordan ?

The whole Hamas hierarchy ,from Haniyeh and Meshaal to the illiterate scum that sent Qassams all 12000 of them ,into residential communities in Souther Israel are guilty as charged,and all the crocodile tears in Gaza won,t change this .

Mr.Maki please get your facts straight as you didn,t say anything when Fatah operatives were thrown off the tall buildings ,the houses blown up and other acts of savagery by Hamas ,in Gaza ,when the Islamic criminals went on the rampage ,so are you hust plain ignorant or a bigot?

So who exactly is going to investigate Hamas war crimes in Gaza,not Amr Moussa,orHamas itself ,only an imbecile would disagree?

Who,s going to investigate Hamas war crimes ,hopefully not Jonnyboy or Khaled Amayreh?

And what will happen to the Hamas hierarchy that caused the problems in the first place,don,t be a hypocrite ,please?

What flagpole is Jonnyboy referring to ,the flagpole of hypocrisy hopefully?

Nothing will come of this except a great deal of obfuscation. The IDF will absolve itself, as it always has. Thousands of Gazans will live another winter in the rubble of their destroyed homes, drinking polluted water and eating not nearly enough. And Israelis will continue to gloat about their great and shining victory over the captive (and mostly civilian) population on the Gaza strip.

independent judiaciary including Arab judges. You??

If i killed my mother with a knife in the neck, would you allow me to be exempt from procecustion because I did not kill her like the 2 Poc was shot? Don't be stupid! And was it those "civilians" are the ones that are stabbing the IDF solders?! No one gives a damn! I really hate israel from one reason and one reason only..... They do!

Palestinians don't have to have done anything wrong to be indiscriminately punished by the IDF.

Great Britain.

To answer your question: Great Britain, or should I say Londonistan.

Mr. Ashkenzi, you and your gang are the source of crime, how you can go and investigate this criminal act

Care to make a guess? Do you give a damn about justice or do just want to snipe.? IDF members HAVE been punished can you say the same about the Palestinians.? That does not matter does it.

Nothing will come of this except a great deal of obfuscation. The IDF will absolve itself, as it always has. Thousands of Gazans will live another winter in the rubble of their destroyed homes, drinking polluted water and eating not nearly enough. And Israelis will continue to gloat over their great and shining victory over the captive (and mostly civilian) population on the Gaza strip.

When will you have one?

The world has seen the results of investigations just like this. When the soldiers spoke out (the investigation spent no time on the allegations, and instead focused on finding fault with those speaking out), when the Settler shot Palestinians live on tape (oops, can't prosecute), and always the story is the same (isolated incident, evidence not there, they were just making up stories). Would Israel be satisfied if there was another UNHCR investigation, this time by Carla Del Ponte?

Why would anyone submit a complaint to someone who has ALREADY made the determination that "we unintentionally hurt civilians". He's already made the conclusion that any civilians hurt or killed were done intentionally. Why lend credibility to this reverse-kangaroo court by participating in it's white-washing?

Michael When I read your posts I recognize that you are eloquent and thoughtful. Nevertheless, I wonder how objective you are about the conflict. I don't want the IDF to abuse any Palestinian and I would hope that Israel would act to ensure that any harm that Palestinian civilians suffer at the hands of the IDF occurs only because of the general risks of war and not due to the misdeeds of IDF members. One has to keep in mind that Israel has been attacked repeatedly by its neighbors and that Israel is viewed by the Palestinians as in occupying power not only with respect to the West Bank but also Israel proper. Israel is at war. The history of the conflict has been much discussed and argued about. I take the view that Israel has a right to exist and that it has not started any of the wars it has fought. Do you agree that Israel has a right to exist and that the wars it has fought were defensive in nature?

"Because of the nature of the battlefield... we unintentionally hurt civilians as well, just like we hurt our very own soldiers and officers," Ashkenazi said. -----Sounds like an admission of guilt

blatantly ignored the same number of UN resolutions, just like Israel? Name one Western democracy who is really a theocratic occupation, just like Israel? Name one Western democracy who has bombed as many UN facilities, just like Israel? Name one Western democracy who has spied on America while receiving billions of dollars and weapons and manipulated America into war, just like Israel? Name one Middle Eastern country who has dropped the same amount of bombs (including white phosphorus and cluster bombs, made in America) onto heavily populated/unarmed refugee camps/cantons, just like Israel? No need to "acculate" statistics just one name will do.

war crimes? when will the world demand from them to do so?

Just keep in mind that in the past year more civilians have died at the hands of radical suicide bombers than all the caualties caused by IDF in the past 5 years or so.

Most notable was South AFrican Commissiion for Conciliation, Mediation & Arbitration. Also the USA regarding the miserable treatment of its enemy prisoners during the Iraq invasion. See other examples by civilized nations...

... to deal with the nature of the orders that were handed down... ... those observant officers who goaded on the troops excessively, should also account for their deeds...

UK has been in afghanistan and Iraq for years... one would assume that mistakes similar to those of the IDF during the Gaza war have to have been made... So please list me the names/ranks and terms of those British soldiers currently in British Military jail... Can you find even one?

You will be hard pressed to find one... Just look at what the Turkish PM said about the Leader of Sudan (He suggested that it was imposible that bashir commited those heinous acts simply because he was muslim)... We are not saying that because we are jewish we are incapable of wrong doing... In fact, By Israel investigating itself we can not only fix any errors we have made (so in future campains we dont make them again) but we also give the Gazan a chance to voice thier grief. Hamas is only interested in facts that prove Israels guilt and will not investigate any wrong doings commited by them. This will give the Gazan a forum to be vocal reguardless of thier political affiliation... koodos to Israel for doing something that no other contry would do.

to be a light unto nations or the only democracy or has the most moral army on the planet. No need to acculate statistics---just one name will do???.

So what! If an IDF person has committed a crime,shouldn't he be punished?

Ben since you're an intelligent Israeli, even though one I frequently disagree with, I'm highly concerned that your instant reaction to my question is the old 'the Arabs are even worse than us' ploy. I'm no fan of Arab regimes which generally have very poor human rights situations. I spent time in Israel in the 1980s and generally enjoyed it and I therefore take Israel at its own estimation, as a western democracy. In that context the, 'we're slightly better than Sudan' defence doesn't work very well. So I repeat the question, how many IDF soldiers have been seriously punished for killing Arabs or Pals since 1948?

So the investigation is into individual acts committed by soldiers and maybe pilots. How does one challenge the rules of engagement agreed by the war cabinet and willingly implemented by the service chiefs? It is these which led to the charges of indiscriminate bombing and shelling of civilians and infrastructure as a retaliatory and punitive measure. If correct, that is where the principal war crimes and crimes against humanity were committed. These inquiries just look like a whitewash to protect the asses of the politicians and generals. It is never going to fly, nobody at the UN or ICC is going to accept this in-house 'investigation' as an an independent judicial inquiry, when it is palpably none of these.

"Let`s see Hamas investigate itself" Goldstone wants a credible investigation of both Israel and Hamas. A credible investigation needs impartial and internationally respected investigators. Surely you agree?

Name just one Arab that was ever punished by his side, for killing a Jew No need for you to acculate statistics, just one name will do

result: Oh yes, we killed civilians: Well done, that's what we intended to do. End of investigation: medals to their murderers.

there's been a devastating war fought in Gaza. The IDF is now asking it's victims. Step forward and complain and we'll be serious about investigating your complaints. Why on earth should any Gazan trust the IDF at this moment? An independent inquiry yes but not the IDF.

'nt like Ashkenazy.

Israel can't investigate itself. Claiming otherwise spells scandalous ignorance of reality or dishonesty. Israel committed cardinal crimes in Gaza..knowingly and deliberately.

Anyone have the statistics? I'm genuinely curious. Haaretz has told us about a lot of dead Pal civilians over the years, but I can't actually remember a single incident of an IDF soldier being seriously punished. Actually maybe I can remember one. Anyone else?

Anyone have the statistics? I'm ge

I find this hilarious...lets see how many people rise from the dead and submit complaints...or how many orphans will fill out a complaint form regarding the murder of their parents... Is there a website or some sort of customer service office that was set up?

Those who are found guilty will without a doubt endure some severe punishment in the form of house arrest LOL !!!

It has to be an independent commission of inquiry headed by a retired supreme court justice, and with the power to compel IDF officers and Israeli govt ministers to testify. Nothing less will do, because a large part of the accusations in the Goldstone report dealt with decisions made at the topmost levels of govt, and those will not be addressed by any internal IDF investigation into the complaints of individual Palestinians. Give it up, guys, because you'll never run this one up the flagpole.