IDF soldier moderately wounded as Nablus raid enters fourth day

All I am reading is an individual who is outraged when someone sproduce a different narrative, even though there ARE two sides to this conflict with two points of view. YOU only want to hear about one. "You characterize every Israeli act as evil" Only those that are illegal or immoral, because I happen to believe that the LAW matters, and the ends do NOT justify using any means. "and every Palestinian act as saintly" - I tend not to mention Palestinian acts; zionists like you cover that ad nauseam. "Your post to Inigo Montoya is a perfect example" Indeed it is. He stated as common knowledge that Hezbo fired rockets at civilians while snatching those soldiers, never asking *why* they would do that? For a laugh? A joke? No. They were firing at IDF garrison troops. Covering fire, JB, not terrorism. "You are totally unbalanced" I am COUNTERbalancing, because YOU and your ilk are biased in what YOU say, and what YOU want to hear. Your claim is hypocritical, JB.

That's a real pretty speech, but it rings quite hollow. Nothing I've ever read that you've written indicates you are anything but an apologist for the Arabs. You characterize every Israeli act as evil and every Palestinian act as saintly, and you are also a hypocrite. Your post to Inigo Montoya is a perfect example of this. You describe Hezbollah's actions which precipitated this summer's war as practically a favor done to the Israelis, whereas recently you characterized an Israeli bulldozer that wasn't even in Lebanese territory as an act of war. You are totally unbalanced, biased, and support without question groups like Hamas, Islamic Jihad, and Hezbollah, which would in a heartbeat deny Jews the right ot self-determination. In and of itself, this position, while morally questionable, is fine, if you lived the rest of your life in Sydney and kept your thoughts to yourself. But if you really care about the Palestinians, stop perpetuating your myth that they do no wrong.

"Not at all. Dude, if you check the timeline, Israel attacked Lebanon AFTER Hezbollah:" Israel started a WAR in response to a border INCIDENT. "1. fired rockets at Israel and using them as a distraction," The UN report said the rockets were fired at IDF positions within and near Isreali villages. Covering fire. Perfectly legal. It isn't Hezbo's fault that IDF quick-reaction forces are placed in and around villages. "2. Invaded Israel, killed several Israelis and kidnapped two." INVADED!!! You have a strange definition of the word. "Invaded" requires the taking and holding of land. What Hezbollah did was a border RAID. An Incursion. Not an Invasion. What Irael did to Lebanon in 1982-2000 and in 2006 were both "invasions", Inigo. But not Hezbollah's little raid. THAT was definitely something that Israel should respond to. No question. But the response needs to be proportionate. Launching a WAR and an INVASION was a disporportionate response.

Not at all. Dude, if you check the timeline, Israel attacked Lebanon AFTER Hezbollah: 1. fired rockets at Israel and using them as a distraction, 2. Invaded Israel, killed several Israelis and kidnapped two. Regarding the other question, it is simple. The Arabs are the terrorists b/c they are the ones deliberately targetting civilians for harm.

"Again I ask you: do you, in principle, deny every people the right of self determination, or just the Jews?" You must be new here, JB. Anyone who has been reading these talkbacks for any length of time know that I base my arguments regarding the rights/borders/legitimacy of both the State of Israel and the future State of Palestine on the equal right of both peoples to self-determination, starting on 15th May 1948 and extending - unbroken - to this very day.

I feel for this man's family whose death started this collective punishment raid, but let?s face the facts. In many countries, one is allowed to kill trespassers such as those who inhabit the illegal settlements in the West Bank where the green line serves as the warning. This is a natural reaction to the death and destruction Israel is reaping on the poor innocent Palestinians. The boys were just defending their national right to self determination. This is a pure math equation based on universal laws.

It's amusing to me that you qualify yourself as capable of judging behavior in war. I'm not talking about International Humanitarian Law, I'm talking single human beings, who act based on the fact that they will be killed, their friends, their families, everything they know will be destroyed, if they don't act decisively. Have you ever been in such a position? If not, stop judging and start thinking. You seem to believe everything you've read from the Arab perspective about this conflict, no questions asked. Why do you deny that ethnic cleansing and genocide were their goals? They certainly weren't shy about it. They openly boasted about their easy victory, the Jews being swept into the sea and all that. They were proud of it - why aren't you? Again I ask you: do you, in principle, deny every people the right of self determination, or just the Jews? You might want to examine yourself for any signs of ideological inconsistency and dogmatic stubournness. It'll make for a better debate.

"Israel was facing genocide, Johnboy. Do you deny they had the right to resist by any means necessary?" Oh, yes, indeed I do. There are limits in war, JB. That is what International Humanitarian Law is all about. Israel was NOT entitled to do what it liked - to use any and all means possible - no matter what you might claim to the contrary. Israel was fighting a war against five EXPEDITIONARY FORCES - not the total combined strength of five countries - no matter what your zionist history might try to claim. Israel ALWAYS had more men than those combined expeditionary forces - always - and the gap widened as the war went on. The State of Israel might have been in some danger of being overrun early on - though that was always unlikely - but the Jews were not facing genocide. I will also point out that the bulk of the ethnic cleansing of arabs took place after the state of Israel was no longer in any danger of being overrun.

"You forgot his preceeding sentence: "Do all you can to immediately and quickly purge the conquered territories of all hostile elements in accordance with the orders issued." " So, you are claiming that the civilian population was part of these "hostile elements", and that justifies cleansing them? Ethnic cleansing AND collective punishment. Very Good, JB; care to try for the trifecta? Oh, indeed you do...... "You also forgot to mention that it was in Safsaf that the ALA, seeking to "ethnically cleanse" Israel of the Jews, fought a battle with the IDF." Astonishing! So because there had been a *battle* preceding this incident the Haganah were actually perfectly entitled to blindfold and shackle 70 men and then massacre them all while they were so bound? I'm curious, JB; were those brave Israelis also allowed to go on a looting rampage because, you know, there had just been a BATTLE fought there?

"So Johnboy tell us whats illegal - suicide bombing perhaps cos the plas are great at that, well practised actually." Well, Adrian, that's the rub - there is no "opt-out" clause in International Humanitarian Law. Just because the OTHER side does not respect that humanitarian law does not give Israel the right to abandon it with great glee - or even to abandon it with great sorrow and regret. Coz that's the thing about being a civilized people living in a civilized country - you are not MEANT to abandon your humanity and debase your beliefs simply because you hate your enemies, or because doing so makes it easier and quicker to kill them. YOUR side is supposed to remain civilized, and it is supposed to maintain those high ideals regardless of what the OTHER side does. You are from NZ - you live in a civilized and highly moral country. But you can't see this simple point, can you? Being civilized...it's just an annoyance to you, isn't it?

"are you even aware that Ben Gurion & Golda Meir pleaded with arabs to stay" I am aware that they were careful to make public pronouncements to that effect. I am also aware of the reminiscings of a certain Yitzak Rabin, who in 1948 captured an arab village and turned to the visiting Ben Gurion and asked - point-blank to the man's face - what should be done about the villagers. Ben Gurion waved his hand towards the border. The old man refused to even say a word, alonitzafoni - words can be recorded, you see - he simply waved them out of Israel. I am also aware of the bravery of Ben Dunkelman in refusing to cleanse Nazareth. His outraged commander sent word all the way up to ol' Ben, coz HE knew exactly what Ben wanted. Ben Gurion was horrified that he'd finally have to put something in writing, so he said NO - and Nazareth was the ONLY town in the area not depopulated. Coz that's the thing - Israel (and Ben Gurion) were SAYING one thing,and DOING another.

You described your view of the situation to itsik in your post #100. Your description of the the situation is that of a law enforcement issue. Yet the presciptive remedy applied by Israel - with, I assume, your approval - is not law enforcement at all. Israel applies warfare to the situation, and all the while claiming that there is no war. This is disingenious of Israel, to say the least. It describes the situation as an "armed conflict short of war", which means it doesn't have to follow the rules of law enforcement (as we do, say, here in Australia) AND it doesn't have to follow the rules of war and occupation. Israel wants it both ways, because that puts its troops outside the law. I find that quite distasteful. I assume you think it is quite Yum-Yum-Yummy.

Message # 5 is from my chum Fake Clickfool, who appears to search Talkback for threads to which I haven't contributed. And there he is again, harping on his favourite theme, Mossad, this time not planting atomic reactors in icepacks to make them melt and add to global warming. He's certainly right about Palestinian civil war warming the hearts of Israel's leaders. "Divide and conquer".

Your biggest sin of omission is not inserting into any discussion of the War for Independence the fact that it was the stated Arab armies' intent to commit ethnic cleansing, and they probably wouldn't have "helped" the residents "leave the area conquered" as Carmel instructed his troops to do. Israel was facing genocide, Johnboy. Do you deny they had the right to resist by any means necessary? Let's look at Vietnam, where the American policy wasn't ethnic cleansing, but regime change. Do you deny that the Vietnamese had a right to fight by any means necessary for their own self-determination? Do you believe that, in general, every nation has the right to self-determination? If so, why reserve that right for everybody but the Jews? If you consider yourself a progressive thinker in any way, and wish to remain ideologically consistent, you might want to rethink your double standard.

are you even aware that Ben Gurion & Golda Meir pleaded with arabs to stay after the 48 war of independence or are you so biased that you would rather believe every gullible lie Al Jazeera tells you???

So Johnboy tell us whats illegal - suicide bombing perhaps cos the plas are great at that, well practised actually.

here you are dealing with the same lot that had beach riots in sydney, why should the army enforce law and order?????its these idiots who choose too kill eachother when they arent fighting the IDF. sounds like a pretty respectable nation, have shooting matches with eachother!!!

tried to kill with daily Qassem barrages etc. How many can a Qassem kill if say they landed in a classroom?You know they have hit an empty classroom. Would you feel better if they were more succcessful? The Lebanese initiated the kidnapping with a shrapnell laden rocket barrage over Israeli civillian areas.Your statement is plain false. Are you sure the Bedouin girl was shot by the IDF?Do you have all the dtails

First of all, I was responding to Darwish's statement reffering to Haganah activities in the period "before Israel was established", as he said. Can you name an equal to Ben Gurion on the Palestinian side in terms of ability to maintain control and authority over warring factions? Regarding your claim of ethnic cleansing and war crimes, you commit the sin of omission, and probably ideological inconsistency and intellectual dishonesty. But let's deal with the omissions first. You wrote: "Carmel himself wrote to his troops during Operation Hiram: 'The residents should be helped to leave the areas that have been conquered.'" You forgot his preceeding sentence: "Do all you can to immediately and quickly purge the conquered territories of all hostile elements in accordance with the orders issued." You also forgot to mention that it was in Safsaf that the ALA, seeking to "ethnically cleanse" Israel of the Jews, fought a battle with the IDF.

Yonatan, I am afraid you are the one detached from reality not Haaretz supporting the oppression and killing of Palestinians. How atrocious. Now that's not how civilized people behave. They usually talk not hit and settle their difference in a court of law or as Abraham Lincoln proposed: "Am I not destroying my enemies when I make friends of them". Good Lord, when might we ever expect this from you? Dutch

..."thieves and who knows what else..." Of course, you know best what else.

I left you an answer on yesterday's editorial forum regarding the legal situation of the occupation.

'Undercover troops from Israel have done excellent work with the killings of the three Islamic terrorists. This was a natural response for the terror act of the terrorist organisation Islamic Jihad who killed Erez Levanon a few days ago. Islamic terrorists should pay with their blood for their terrorist actions!' Fascinating. The Israelis themselves actually caught the two culprits in that killing and announced they were unaffiliated with any organization. Now they're 'Islamic Jihad terrorists.' Amazing, really amazing. Israel certainly is a magical land...didn't something similar happen on a larger scale with that attack on Lebanon? You know: the one where Israel started bombing on the 11th in retaliation for rockets that didn't get fired until the 12th? How do you do this? Is this what they call 'magical realism' or does that describe something else entirely?

If the names of the killed Iraqis were used as head lines there would be nothing else in American newspapers how ever the fornt page is not even for killed Americans it is for Britney Spears or Paris Hilton. Let he who is without a sin cast the first stown is forgotten in US.

"Janice, I couldn`t agree you with you more. Israel is seeking the destruction of Pales and any potential for a statehood" Darwish, We should never have allowed those Israeli monsters back into the middle East. Their greed for Palestinian land is consuming us all now. They are nothing but trouble every day. I fear we will have to remove them. They can't seem to get along with anyone and have a wall in their heart. They are are insufferable. Dutch

Equating slavery to the Pal issue is beyond ignorant. There is no comparison to the black slavery in America and the Palestinians in Israel. False claims made by an over emotional unthinking mind.

No doubt in some alternate universe where we found ourselves on a Hamas discussion board, you'd feel I was disturbingly anti-Arabic. At Haaretz, I'm more often confronted with gross nonsense from the pro-Israel crowd. I'll grant that I'm vehemently opposed to Israel as it exists, but that's only part of it. Most of what Israel's supporters post really is the rankest garbage.

It's interesting. In the last day, six people have been killed or wounded that I know of. The IDF killed three Islamic Jihad operatives (or two Islamic Jihad operatives and their driver). They shot and critically wounded a youth throwing stones. They shot a twelve year old Bedioun girl herding sheep in the head. For their part, the Palestinians managed to wound one soldier who happened to be invading their city at the time. This really is about as average a slice of life as any we could take from Israel. And yet, for some reason, the Palestinians are the 'terrorists.' Perhaps you could explain this to me?

Heavens to Betsy, an Israeli soldier was moderately wounded!! And that was the headline. Only an average of 100 Palestinians per month have been killed by Israeli since the middle of last year. But they rate a column inch on page 23. Israel's treatment of the Palestinians reminds me of the section in either "Tom Sawyer" or "Huckleberry Finn" in which Tom tells Aunt Polly about a railroad accident. In response to Aunt Polly's horrified question as to whether anyone had been hurt, Tom responded, "No, mam, killed a nigger." And that is Israel today. "Horrors, was anyone hurt?" "No, mam, killed a sand nigger."

Do you just applaud, or do you throw candies when a young man is deliberately killed while praying?

"they commited no terrorist attacks" - well, it is difficult to describe illegal acts by an ARMY as "terrorism", so you are being disengenious. But they certainly carried out war crimes. Try the Carmeli Brigade, JB; list all the arab villages that the Carmeli Brigade captured in 1948-49. Now make another column and list all the arab villages that were depopulated following their capture. Compare and contrast, JB. How many villages listed in the "Carmeli" column are NOT present on the "depopulated" column? I can find only one: Nazareth, because Ben Dunkelman - a Canadian with some moral fibre - refused a direct order. Carmel himself wrote to his troops during Operation Hiram: "The residents should be helped to leave the areas that have been conquered." An invitation to ethnic cleansing, JB. I'll note as well the execution of 70 blindfolded men at Safsas during Op. Hiram by, gosh!, Carmel's men. Hagenah men, JB, who committed a war crime.

Wow, thanks very much for your insight, KT, very interesting that you have such an active Muslim community in New Mexico, to be honest, I wouldnt have expected that. Well, maybe I should have known better, because I always had the feeling that New Mexico is a very special state within the U.S. It is neither the East or the West coast, nor is it typical "heartland" for me, I don't know exactly how to describe it, maybe something in between. But definitely a beautiful landscape. You can call yourself a lucky man/woman to live there. No doubt about that. Okay, got to get some sleep...

No Marilyn, this is not a matter of complaining. On a human level I don't think a spiritual man, unarmed, meditating in nature and praying to God deserves to be stabbed to death by rabid murderers. Anything else is condoning terror and murder.

"when they arent detonating themselves,shooting or throwing stones at our soldiers, they have gang wars with eachother. eg fatah-hamas, they just a bunch of gangsters no different then the bloods and crips in los angeles " That can't be true, because that makes Israel's job inside occupied territory one of law enforcement. Israel insists otherwise; it is an "armed conflict". Different rules apply in an "armed conflict" than in a law enforcement regime, or don't the Israeli authorities bother to tell you that? Israeli authorities probably also forget to tell you that their soldiers operate outside int'l law; it is an "armed conflict short of war" i.e. the soldiers aren't doing law enforcement but, so sorry, they don't need to follow the rules of war or occupation. They don't need to follow any rules AT ALL except those that Israel makes up for itself. How very convenient, because what they are doing is illegal under the rules of war and occupation. Very, very illegal.

"Unlike the British special ops we actualy follow protocols." *sigh* Israel can just makes up the rules, and that makes it OK? Israel has obligations under the 4th GC regarding protected persons i.e. civilians under occupation. One is the prohibition on perfidy. Your "protocols" involve perfidy - soldiers disguising themselves as civilians in order to get close enough to capture/kill "the enemy". It is against int'l law to do this because it places innocent civilians at great risk: 1) the enemy may incorrectly assume innocents are Israeli soldiers attempting an ambush, and 2) innocent civilians are unaware when armed Israeli soldiers in their midst are about to start shooting. Your "protocols" are crimes, and the fact that your soldiers carry them out scrupulously makes them war criminals. Yeah, I know, you must consider that so unfair. But that is only because you consider the life of innocent Pal civilians as easily forfeit, and of no great concern.

Actually, there is an active Muslim community here in ABQ - also in Socorro, Las Cruces, Gallup. And they air a weekly program on public access TV which probably goes almost unnoticed by anyone not a Muslim. I found it quite by accident, and so far have not been able to persuade anyone else to look at it - including, unfortunately, a rabbi who works very closely with the Muslim Center here. However, he probably would not recognize what I find disturbing about it. It is, after all, the weekly chanting and translating of the Quran. There is, though, often a segment ostensibly calling for peace, but if one has had not only quite a bit of experience in Israel, but also an intimate association with Muslims, one recognizes that it will stir anger and hatred in the Muslims here who are watching it. So yes, it is here, too. In the past, I have joked that, though Jews have been in NM for 400 years, there is no synagogue in Socorro, but there is a Muslim Center.

Ashraf, Mohamed Abu and Ala Jabali asking for you.

TOMY, I wonder where you have your numbers from...?? The average Palestinian worker doesn't want to see Israel destroied, all he wants is a good job where he can make enough money to feed his family. I still haven't heard one argument, why it would be wrong for Olmert to take a bold step now. If the Palestinians accept an offer for serious negotiations, great. If they refuse, noone can blame Israel anymore. But with the status quo there are only two losers, Israel and the Palestinians. It's as simple as that.

Lynn, thats exactly why I am preaching to the Palestinians here, and I surely hope, they will "preach my words back" to their leaders..:)

Well KT, one thing I know for sure: No reason for you to be afraid of Muslims, while walking around in beautiful Albuquerque. From the many times I traveled through your state, I hardly remember having ever seen any foreigners there (apart from the tourists and your Mexican-amigos of course).... So surely no reason for Islamophobia in good old New Mexico, right...??

Not claiming to be a ME expert... Israeli government?s complaints fall of deaf ears. The kind-hearted Jewish majority in Israel proper deserve to live and prosper in peace. But, complaining about trespassing Jewish settlers being killed in the West Bank is tantamount to American colonial White Plantation owners bemoaning the grievances of their badly beaten Black slaves.

"it seems to me both you and maureen ann prefer airstrikes that kill more people,even innocent pallie women and kids!!!!!!!" No, alonitzafoni, because both perfidious acts of assassination and disproportionate attacks from the air with Bloody Big Bombs are both war crimes being carried out by an Occupying Power against a population under occupation. Or, what? You think that Israel just has a free hand to do what it wants, using whatever methods it thinks necessary, in order to advance its interests? Just shout "Security!" and let loose the Dogs of War? Then why did Israel even bother signing the Geneva Conventions? Just a PR exercise, was it? Israel claims that it is a civilized country, alonitzafoni. It claims that it is a respectible member of the world of nations. It sure doesn't act that way.

"Their blood will be the fuel of our holy battle. And our reaction is coming soon." All reaction and no progression.

G-D Bless IDF. Thank you a million times.

"This new crime will not pass without tough punishment," Abu Ahmad said in a text message sent to reporters. "Their blood will be the fuel of our holy battle. And our reaction is coming soon." What crime was committed, Abu? It is not a crime to kill armed enemy combatants during a period of armed conflict. What is "holy" about your battle, Abu? It sounds like evil terrorism to me. Is this soon-to-expected "reaction" going to be another fizzled-out revenge threat or are you actually going to do something other than shooting a few Qassams over the fence from the Gaza Strip which you're doing anyway? I think that you are all bark and no bite, Abu.

The Haganah distanced themselves from the Irgun; they commited no terrorist attacks. As for the Irgun, they were marginalized and weakened by Ben Gurion, a strong leader who understood that their activities undermined the chances of realizing a Jewish State. Unfortunately, there exists no parallel on the Palestinian side.

Undercover troops from Israel have done excellent work with the killings of the three Islamic terrorists. This was a natural response for the terror act of the terrorist organisation Islamic Jihad who killed Erez Levanon a few days ago. Islamic terrorists should pay with their blood for their terrorist actions!

is the arabs' religion, "islam". they need to give it up if not there will be no peace in israel and in the middle east.their religion is dangerous----islam won't get them to their paradise with 72 virgins and a lot of wine(they will get drunk).

Qudos IDF well done.

*nuff said

I have noticed of course. Black/white It is difficult as she is so prolific, but I attempt to skip her posts, and would never interact with her. It is interesting to note, that when I suspected that rowan berkeley was a nazi from one of his posts, and followed the paper trail, I found myself on a nazi site that encouraged their members to come to Haaretz and blog. I am not saying that she is part of this, and have no proof, but there are people here from this site. Incidentally I found that he openly bragged about his affiliation with the nazi party in Britian. I have bookmarked all of these sites and they are available to anyone who wants to read them. I couldn't repeat most things here, as they even tell Holocaust jokes.

jack sullivan and his symptomatic feelings of self importance. In fact, when he uses his religious lingo using such words as heter and lashon hora to mix fact and fiction i think he is getting a real "high" tht makes him feel like a real crusading jew.

u guys have no lives seriously, go waste your time talking abuot how killing and raiding cities is going to help to your kids cuz obviously its not helping over here. palestinians are terrorized on a daily basis and land taht was once theres dont you think they have the right to resist? and until now there are no jsut acts towards palestinians, they do not even recieve human rights, good job u came to palestine around 60 years ago and until now there isnt any peace going on, and there wont be peace as long as palestinains are continuosly being terrorized in their own lands. you cant even leave the west bank and gaza alone? you've already taken most of palestine. the best thing i ever did in my life was leave the hidious areas that the isrealis populate.

AND THE EARTH IS FLAT!! NO MATTER HOW MANY TIMES THEY ARE CORRECTED THEY STILL PARROT THE SAME WORN OUT SLOGANS . SOME LIKE DORIS CADIGAN HAVE BEEN DOING IT FOR YEARS THE PRIZE GOES TO YAAKOV SULLIVAN WHO MUST SIT NIGHT AND DAY TYPING . BALLISTIC IS UNREAL"AMOS N, ANDY" AND YOU MAY HAVE NOTICED HER STYLE HAS CHANGED SLIGHTLY WHICH LEADS ME TO SUSPECT ITS MORE THAN ONE PERSON !!

I guess because the Palestinians report something it must be true. You really are a fool.

You have perhaps unwittingly explained why people in Western countries can continue to go out of their houses without fear despite some perhaps less friendly cultural propensities on the part of their Muslim neighbors. Your last paragraph: "But I will conceed [sic] that there is a certain problem with violence here in Switzerland among young Muslim immigrants, . . . but it is finally getting addressed now quite firmly."

there are two sides, and unfortunately you are apparently only capable of seeing, understanding, or agreeing with one side. that's too bad, but true of 98% of those with an opinion on the subject. while you are not alone, your comment does absolutely nothing for advocating for sustainable peace. you are blaming practitioners of islam and nothing more. typical.

Hurry up and accept Israel and a state and you will have less to worry about what's happening in the West Bank.

I have many muslim friends, but they won't speak publicly. They would be outcasts in their community. There are many muslims who just want a normal life and detest radical islam. But they need someone to start. They may not have a Ghandi, but it must be grassroots. But look at the Marwans who tell us that they are secular but demand it all.

What is your point? You are demanding the right of return and a majority muslim population in Israel. Which means no Israel. You don't want a two state solution. You want one big Palestine. Since this will never happen, you are encouraging death. Please, do you really believe that all Jews left their homes and property in muslim countries willingly? Do you really believe that Palestinians are good and Jews are bad? I would expect more from a secular person. Compromise is not in your vocabulary. Grudges are. You need to see and recognize the humanity of both people. Sorry, I don't believe you or your logic.

Hi Alex, I wish you were right. But the sea change will need to take place within Islam. It is up to Muslims to liberate themselves from their own imposed bondage. One can start by agreeing to recognize their Jewish neighbor's right to exist. It all flows from there. But can they? One can start by giving up the training of suicide bombers. But can they? One can start by not calling for fatwa on peaceful Muslims. But can they? Tolerance for a tiny Jewish state in a region of hundreds of millions of Muslims is the true test of Islam.

Bev; I am as secular as they get and not a jihadist. I witnessed first hand the suffering the Pales enduring under Israel's collective punishment tactics. My parents in the middle of the conflict in Nablus and in speaking to them, they just want to have a normal life. My cousin is kicked out of his house so that the IDF can use as a base during their operation. Actions like these by Israel only creates hatred. Janice, I couldn't agree you with you more. Israel is seeking the destruction of Pales and any potential for a statehood.

Maybe the only way they will stop is if the Palestinians themselves demand it. Until the people speak up, it will continue. Hamas wants a 15-20 year hudna. Not going to work this time.

How much money does YOUR government give to the Palestinians? US aid is a gift and not an entitlement. WE have given long enough and gotten zero co-operation from the Pals. No mre gifts until they do what is right for their people. Unless, of course, you wish to send your money to them.

Rabin:We will negotiate and at the same time fight terror. This statement was said, when Israel was under illusion of totaly failed Oslo. Arafat was a real con artist,and Israel fell for it. Today the marjority of Arabs OPENLY oppose to the exsistance of Israel. AND THIS IS A BIG DIFFERANCE.

If palis would start building something useful, instead of building bombs, Israel would not have reasons to enter palis territory. and they would have a state 60 years ego. And the palis do the same mistakes for over 100 years. It seems to me,there is nothing positive to expect from them. Terror is their only talent. It is sad.

You are absolutely right, Bev. The biggest problem is the Palestinian right of return. Our asking Palestinians on this site is however, not representative of Palestinian opinion. Their own polls (as I saw on Palestinian websites) have shown that most Palestinians would not want to return to a Jewish Israel. But their leadership does not want to let our country Canada, in charge of finding solutions for the refugees, do their job because politically they want Palestinians to swamp Israel.

We wish the IDF soldier a complete and speedy recovery. May The Holy One, Blessed is He, heal his wounds fast as the soldier is fighting for Him and His people. Amen.

You are absolutely right. The Israelis do expect the Palestinians to sit by and take it while their land and water resources are confiscated and occupied by the Israelis who are absolutely ensuring that there will never be a Palestinian state - at least a state that is any more than a bantustan. Over the years Israel has shown that it values the acquistion of land more than it values peace. Every time there has been a truce it was broken by an Israeli assassination of a Palestinian resistance leader. Israel knew that the Palestinians would not sit by and accept the provocation. It is almost 40 years since Israel occupied the West Bank and it appears that this horrible illegal occupation and land theft isn't going away any time soon, even if the Palestinians just sat on their hands. Where is the international community?

You have just doomed millions of people to continue the dance of death I hope and (if I was religious would pray) that most Palestinians will realize that you are calling for the destruction of Israel, and the never ending cycle of violence. As I said in my first posting to you, you should really trade places with an innocent Palestinian, who doesn't share your Jihadic view.

None of the Arab Countries or African countries expelled Jews. Those Jews left by choic. There is a e seaking a better life in Israel. Example Morroco, Yemen, Egypt, Ethiopia. Furthermore, in the City of Nablus, where I grew up we have Samaritans that lived their for generations and continue to live there. No one ever wanted to expel them on the Arab or Pales Side. The Pales should never give up the right of return, after all, they were expelled from by the creation of Israel. So who gives the legal or moral right to an Ethiopian or a Russian Jew for example to come and illegally settle in the West Bank while at the same time preventing the Pales legal owners of the land the right of return? The answer is No one, not even God as far as I am concerned

Yaaha! Or the Tito family in Givat Shmuel!

yep, the problem of mideast violence is the jihad. however the isr. settlers and combined isr./us occupation throughout the region provides popular support for these jihadist methods. if the us president had any fortitute or foresight he would work on these issues to begin eliminating this popular support, and the wounds on all sides would begin to heal in favor of a truly international consensus of SELF-GOVERNANCE.

TOMY, I believe very firmly, that the ongoing conflict has not only taken a toll on Israels society, but clearly, probably even more on the Palestinian side. As I wrote to Yonatan, if you remember well, the first Intifada at the end of the 80's started quite peacefully and even you will have to admit that Israel didn't react very nicely towards it. The problem by then was that Israel in principle was not yet willing to accept a Palestinian state. Now it's exactly the other way around: Israel would at least officially accept a Pale- stinian state, but she wants first all the violence to stop before any negotiations can begin. I personally can understand that point of view, but I still very much believe that Rabins approach was the smart one: "We will negotiate and at the same time fight terror". Words that seem to be forgotten in Israel today.

when they arent detonating themselves,shooting or throwing stones at our soldiers, they have gang wars with eachother. eg fatah-hamas, they just a bunch of gangsters no different then the bloods and crips in los angeles

Johnny, I am well aware of those extremist Imams, we also have a few of them in Switzer- land. But bottomline for me is: Whoever is coming to Europe has to integrate, has to obey to our laws and has to accept our way of life. Whatever they do otherwise is fine, but those are the rules that have to be respected. If someone is not willing or able to accept that, he should go back to the country he is coming from. As I told you, there are clearly more problems with young Muslims than for example Asians in Switzerland, and those who are not willing to respect our laws must be prosecuted. But there are also many quiet, hard working Muslims in Switzerland who are not making any troubles at all and who are willing to at least respect our way of life, even if not all of them do actively participate in it.

Today Italian undercover border guards killed 2 suicide bombers sent by the French Front for the Liberation of Italy (FFLI), allied with the Swiss Holy Group for the Extermination of Italians and with the Austrian group Holy Warriors for the Conquest of Rome. None of these groups recognizes Italy's right to exist and they are massing heavy artillery (missiles) at Italy's borders. Although Italy is recognized by the U.N., the U.N. has never criticized any of these groups, not even when they shot 4 000 missiles into Italian cities.

much from palis.You want them to use their brain power.You see, Islam is a dogmatic idealogy. Critical thinking is not encouraged.So people think as a tribe, the mob rules,and a little mullah has more power over brainless massas then any logic. The only solution is a smart vicious dictator. I hope,I am whrong.

Please tell me if you renounce the right of return. Financial compensation, yes. The almost one million Jews driven from their homes in muslim countries will never see any form of compensation in this shifting population in the middle east. There is a sizable muslim population in Israel to-day. This can't said of the Jewish population in the muslim countries. Israel is a speck of land. Most haters on this site don't even realize that the entire country is smaller than New Jersey. If you accept this premise we are on the same page and can dialogue politely despite our ideological differences. I too believe in a two state solution with Palestinians and Jews living in prosperity, each accepting the others' humanity.

To Mario: You do not visit Israel:it is your loss! Every time I come to visit Israel I find more places to discover and enjoy! It is a small country but beautiful!! Yes, the political situation at present is not great. Unfortunately the arabs do not realize that PEACE would be good for BOTH sides.I have hopes however. I am leaving in 10 days to spend a few weeks there. I will be mostly in Jerusalem which is a superb city! Am Israel Hai!!!Lolita Zamir

first of all, i commend Clickfool. I am not sure if he believes most of the comments he makes or just does it to get a rile out of the people who visit this site. Either way, he succeeds. Part of me wants to ignore him, but we all know that is we ignore someone who throws stones at us, they will use larger stones to inflict more pain. The thing that makes me happy, though, is that israel haters have to come onto an ISRAELI website to bash Israel. Of course, is there a Talkbalk section on Al-Jazeera's website where we can openly bash Muslim/Arab countries? Can Egyptians and Saudis and Palestinians protest their government's policies? Nope. And the Israel haters know that. That's why all of the anti-Israel/pro-Palestinian comments make me happy. SHows that, no matter how many holes these people poke at Israel, she is a democracy. and no one can take that away from her.

But he doesnot have to look any further,his country is full of them.Tell me, indrajaya,are you a part of terror network in you poverty stricken country??? Or your problem is only Israel??

Bev; On the contrary I don't encourage death or killing, I am for a 2-state solution, and I don't take pride in being in Sunny Florida while my people are being killed. I think you need to understand that Israel broke every promise or deal it had forged with the Pales. While the truce was in effect between Hamas & Israel, the latter continued its illegal assassination policy and nightly incursion into the Pales Cities. SO what you expect of the Pales to do, set and take?

Some even handed analisys from you. I would like to add, if palis would not consentrate their afforts on building bombs,to use against Israel, they would have a state 60 years ego. And this is a simple, but a very accurate statement.

I am not personally afraid, that is not the point. It is about what the Qur'an clearly states, and what the ultimate goal of Islam is. There is not moderate Islam, that is just an absolute fact. And that absolute fact is coming directly from the Qur'an. Islams followers (and especially in Europe) are becoming more extreme/radical. This is a general understanding communicated by many tv channels / news papers / bloggers / polls / researchers etc. In Sweden Imams / Islamic groups etc are becoming more radical by the hour. They are now debating sharia for Sweden (sic), exemptions for muslim students participating in music classes, exemption for muslim students to participate in swimming classes etc. In UK 40% of all muslims wants sharia laws in the UK. This is no hype, its happening. Just imagine how many Europeans how died for us to have the freedom of life we have today. Most Europeans will not go through that again, as the muslims wants us too.

When I discovered that the man bragged about his almost 50,000 mosly hate mails I immediately stopped reading, or posting to him. He is an anti-semite, but probasbly hates muslims as well. He knows how to manipulate and feeds off responses. He would wither away and die, if he was ignored, but this will never happen. He is a master of "reaction". The interesting note on this pathology is a relatively newcomer named ballistic, not as shrewd as the fool. When I said to ignore her actually rather stupid anti-semetic posts she responded by telling me that I have no right to do so, as she is popular. Sad .

a lot of sense by most people in this world. The problem is ,that clear thinking do not apply for palis. Those terrorists are very popular in palis world.They going to name kindergardens,stadiums, streets, schools ...after them.And this is exsectly the reason for their condition. Do you remember, when Arafat was suppouse to sighn the piece treaty with Israel, he asked Carter:WILL YOU COME TO MY FUNERAL?? He knew his tribe wery well.

BRAVO IDF ANOTHER FINE JOB

Johnny, with all due respect, but I think you are generalizing a bit too much when it comes to this question. I really hope, you don't believe that all the Muslims want to kill you, otherwise you couldn't go out of the house and enjoy the many beauti- ful places in Stockholm anymore... I was referring with my post to the so called "honour killings". There was at least one of them in Germany last year, and for the first time you really heard (especially) young Muslims clearly speaking out against it. So I think at least in Europe it is a generation thing. However, how long it will take to improve in their countries of origin, is again a very different question (Turkey for example)... But I will conceed there is a certain problem with violence here in Switzerland among young Muslim immigrants, mostly Albanians and Turks, but it is finally getting addressed now quite firmly.

You and I are safe. Yu are basking in the sun and encouraging death. Shame. You know that if your people stop killing Jews, and accept Israels' existence, there will be no war. If you don't accept this fact, you should at least be man enough to go back to your country and put yourself on the line and allow a Palestinian who wants peace to replace you in sunny Florida.

They know they wouldn't know how to defend it. Check out this headline: Iran Forces May Pursue Kurdish Rebels Into Iraq, Commander Says. Chickens coming home to roost for all Iranian Government COWARDS. Thinking how ironic it will be when Hamas has to deal with their suicide bombers blowing themselves up in crowded Muslim markets in the new state of Palestine. Muslim Jihad violence is the root of the problem in the Middle East.

Palestine News Agency-Wafa is owned by the pal government, now in the hands of hamas. They have to do their propaganda so to fool people. Otherwise, what excuses would the pal supporters have? If that agency is your only source of information, you will think that the Jews are the devil and the pals are angels. The article states that pal sources said the dead were Islamic Jihad terrorists. Here you have. Maybe you believe all the media are lying but for hamas agency (you can google the news and compare with how it is informed by other media) Israeli soldiers kill 3 Islamic Jihad militants http://www.cnn.com/2007/WORLD/meast/02/28/mideast.violence/index.html?section=cnn_latest

Normally one would send condolences to the family. Even terrorists have families,...but in this instance I pity the terrorists who were deceived by their parents, imans and teachers into believing that death is preferable to life. They believe they are martyrs. "To kill a Jew is a blessing". Such wasted young lives. Their parents will have a party and celebrate. How do you change this death cult? This is not Israels problem. It is a problem for every democracy. It was reported on BBC news this past Sunday, that Iran had 25,000 suicide bombers ready to attack the west.

Those killed by IDF are not terrorists, rather freedom fighters. They just want the brutal occupation to end. Have you forgotten how Israel was established. Do you know of the Haganah and Irgun? For your information they committed atrocities against the Pales in the 1940's. Go read some history before you pass judgment.

Yesterday, the hamas government vowed to try to prevent attacks on Israel. They must be glad that Israel is doing the work for them. They should now release Shalit to correspond.

Swiss you wrote: "Actually I think, the Muslims inEurope are slowly but surely starting to adapt to those chanllenges...". If you by that mean that muslims in Europe are starting to adhere to the general rules we have in Europe you are wrong. It is the other way around. Muslims in Europe are more and more trying to create their own rules and ways of doing things. However, what is changing is an awareness among the sane people in Europe (the original inhabitants that is) about Islam and muslims. Muslims will quite soon wake up to a Europe where they are not tolerated the way they are today. This is because thay want to kill everyone who is not a muslim. This is not okay, and they will find that out, and it will not be to their liking.

I wish you a complete and speedy recovery. Many thanks for your good work.

Millions of twisted Souls throughout the Muslim World mourning the death of terrorists and criminals. Oh Islam how twisted your teachings have become. How you have degraded yourself in your quest for JIHAD and World Domination. How you have justified the hate and attrocities you have and are committing daily. Your revisionism and false replacement theories only lead to death and destruction. Truly you are LOST and educating your youth and your believers in apostacy. Look and be thankful to what the Almighty has given you and return to Mecca and clean your hearts and twisted sharia to produce righteousness, goodness, truth, kindness and tolerance. Wahbeism,Quomism, Molochism, shaheedism, mujadeemism are twisted dogma and pagen understandings that promote hate and intolerance, unG-dliness, and darkness. Submit to Allah's WILL that ISRAEL belongs to the JEWS and Bless the Jewish Nation, and live in Peace and Goodness with ALL of G-d's Children.

it's no PDF it's PTA no not the Parent Teacher Association it's the Palestinian Terror Authority

Yonatan, in Switzerland we have a saying: "The men are killing with their arms, and the women are "killing" with their words". Just kidding. There is no doubt that the Muslim world has to rethink very well when it comes to certain practices. Actually I think, the Muslims in Europe are slowly but surely starting to adapt to those chanllenges, but it will take quite some time. And with regard to Palestinian violence, you know, if I remember well, the first Palesti- nian Intifada was (at least when it started) quite peaceful. I assume that many Israelis will regret today, that their governement reacted that harshly (to put it quite mildly !!) to it. Actually I thought that many things have changed in the minds of Israelis since then, but I must admit that it is a bit disturbing to see some of the comments when there is a Haaretz article about a peaceful demonstration against the route of the fence/wall....

great work

So Islamic Jihad are the army of the org that signed the oslo agreement? How can that be as the islamic jihad doesn't even acknowledge the right for the Israelis to rule any part of the land alocated to them. The Islamic Jihad (PDF as you kindly pointed out...) do not aim at soldiers but aim on crowded placed such as buses and pubs (Soldiers normally are not going to pubs on dutiees and Mikes place (for example) isn't a soldeir's bar or a policemen bar... You are talking out of your back side!

Several days ago and Israeli, Erez Levanon, was stabbed to death by two brave Palestinians youths. He was unarmed, and sitting under a tree in an orchard meditating/praying. All you Israel bashers on these forums claimed he deserved to die becasue he is a settler (indicating that no Jew is allowed to breathe/live on Palestinian land - Judenrein is the name of the game. This man was not arrensted (for what?) given a trial, a chance to appeal, and sentenced for his "crime". HE was murdered in cold blood in a non-combat scenario, not threatening or intending to threaten a soul. And here your bashers in full force try to castigatee Israel who kill two terrorists and find several bomb factories intended to cause the deaths of more Israelis. Not one of you (Maureen, Johnboy) said a word against the two Palestinian cold-blooded murderers. That was okay, I supposed, he deserved it. You're pathetic as human beings who proclaim to care for human life.

Aloni Tsfoni, they are doing it either from boardom or because they realy believe the solution will resolve anything in the "Shetah'". Even if we give everything to the Beduin the rotten ones will still cry! This is just one example of how complicated things are. People just like quick fixes. Take care.

how wrong you are, you obviously mistake us for hamas and hezbollah!!!!lol

If the IDF kill a PDF, Israel call "Good job IDF. If the PDF kill a IOF, Israel cry "Terrorist kills poor IDF boy"

as battle grounds the sooner they stop desecrating places like the Church of Nativity the better. Oh OK they can trash Synagogues we would not like you to have no fun at all.

There are provinces in your country,run by rapists,thieves and who knows what else. So I suggest you clean up your country,before critisizing Israel.

I think I understand why people rather be on the streets and throe stones and be sooo cool and violent, Its because the alternative of painting your house, fixing everything around you, imrooving your life and that of friends and family, studying and basically pulling yourself by your bootstraps is hard work, and I am sorry Palestinians but until you address your own reality, which you are not DOOING by fighting(always fighting) your live will not IMPROOVE.

indrajaya yesterday i took a walk in downtown djakatra.the poverty is truly humbling.and the huge numbers without jobs is depressing. i know you do not like us javanese but dont you feel you should be helping our poor before going on about apartheid walls?

since you clearly spurned the javanese on this site why would a racist like you even bother to think of apartheid walls?

Jonny, they normally realise when the soldiers shout "hands up!". Unlike the British special ops we actualy follow protocols. Charles de menezes killers weren't punished interviewed or even investigated. So, what protocol did the Brits followed so that he ended up in central london tube with 8 bullets in him fired from 0 range? Any thoughts? Not only was he in non hostile terrirtory, but he wasn't armed and the range was close to quickly over power him. In the latter scenario the opposite was the case. Both scenarios are regretable in human life but the Jihadists are in a "better place" aren't they? So what's the fass?

he doesn,t nirah, he is a lost cause like marilyn,clickfool and the rest of that sad lot!!!i guess portugal and australia are too boring they have to criticise israel.

THey know no rational thinker will believe anything he says ....THEN when they do have to commit and act of intelligence and subterfuge, they will use his voice to say it was Mossad and then rational thinkers will NOT believe it......and on and on and on. Have a blessed day y'all.

it seems to me both you and maureen ann prefer airstrikes that kill more people,even innocent pallie women and kids!!!!!!!

Also a report on the Nablus hospital under seige. BBC News. Monday 26 February 2007. IDF take over of Palestinian radio and TV stations. BBC News. Tuesday 27 2007.

why doesnt haaretz ban the fool???i mean express your opinion but dont be stupid and baseless like him(clickfool) i ignore him completley from now on!!!

there is only onething i can say to those three terrorists in hebrew-mageeya lecha!!!!!!!!!!!!!!=serves you right!!!!!

Modern state of Izrael existing 60 years. I really think it's time for everione to finally accept that. ;)

I'm surprised to not see a Bill Murray cameo yet, since the Palestinians are repeating the same mistakes every single day. They claim they want peace. then they launch Quassams into israel. Then they get caught housing bomb factories. Then they blame israel for disrupting peace negotiations. Then they throw stones at the Israeli Army. Then they go to bed and wake up claiming they want peace... Repeat. Lather. Rinse. The Palestinians should have a national referendum that states what their endgame is: either to destroy israel or to live alongside Israel in peace. I think we all know what the results would be.

Why don't you, Paulo, simply say that Israel has the right to exist? Why do you always have to hide behind fancy wording instead of saying what you may or may not claim is in your mind? I'll believe you think Israel has the right to exist when I see it wrtten clearly.

Paulo, why are you upset? If they are wrong than that shouldn't alarm you because the truth is on your side. But if they are correct and you are misgiuded or false or lying, well... another question (and I'm sorry I have to bring this up every time) Why aren't you in Lisbon waving banners against the over fishing and killing of the cod by your govt and fishermen? Is it because you are intimidated by a few hundred fishermen? Trust me Paulo, the Jihadist wants more and are far more intimidating! Go to the square and protect the oceans!

"Hamas has overall responsibility for what happens in the territory that it controls" - I think you will find that it is Israel that controls the Palestinian territories. "Who has refused to recognise Israel's right to exist" - Gimme a break I never refused this, it is you who refuses to ignore the facts of my arguments and continues this inane argument that has no bearing on truth or reality. Grow up Nirah the act is getting old.

Just how peace can be closer, when those extremists clearly refuse to give up of terror and finaly recognise Israel as a state?

See Subject....

I note the pattern is always the same: undercover soldiers - a war crime of perfidy, btw - are toolin' around, trying to look inconspicuous. They drive up to some suspects to "arrest them" and always - always - the suspects "notice" the undercover soldiers and pull their guns and SHOOT FIRST! Just how "elite" *are* these undercover troops if the other side always - always - manage to get off the first shots, even when they are surprised by the sudden appearence of the soldiers??? Or is it in fact a script, and this is state-sanctioned execution, with Israel using soldiers as war criminals by sending them in under civilian disguise?

Compare Israeli civilians killing Palestinians in the territories with Palestians killing Israelis west of the Green Line and notice there's no difference. So, be a good sport and let's hear you clapping when the Palestinians have their revenge. JJ

Where the terrorist where when the Border Police attempted to arrest them. They were in the parking lot of a hospital. Seems that the terrorists are using hospitals for safe houses. Just like Israel said yesterday. And the PA bitterly complained that the Army was searching vehicles entering and exiting the hospitals. Guess what they are justified. Three less terrorists walk the face of this earth and the only thing I can say is that they made it a better place by their absence.

An unarmed Israeli was stabbed to death,stabbed all over his body. Peace seems closer? Is that your definition of peace trying to randomly kill Israelis with missiles aimed at civillians? Hamas point blank refuses to recognise Israel. Have you counted the number of Moslem homicide bombings just in the last 24 hours? That is what Israel is trying to prevent hapenning in Israel!

Regarding the following items arisen by you: 2. Nablus Incursion yesterday. 3. Border police attack on Jihad Islam leader. 4. Now this Jenin killing. DO U REALLY EXPECT THAT ISRAEL WILL SIT QUITE WHILE HAMAS, JIHAD, ... KEEP SENDING SUICIDE BOMBERS !!!! WHERE DO YOU LIVE ? IN THE MOON !!! Regarding the diging, pleae find below the link, which let you check if Israel is really disrespecting other faith: http://www.antiquities.org.il/home_heb.asp INDRAJAYA, I BELIEVE YOU ARE A MUSLIM , SINCE YOU ARE POSTING FROM JACARTA. THEREFORE YOU MIGHT BE CONFUSING ISLAM DEFINITION OF PEACE - WHICH IS SUBMISSION. IF YOU REALLY EXPECT ISRAEL TO SUBMIT TO THE BUTHCHERS , FORGET IT !!!

No trial. No justice. Just cold blooded murder. Israel is scary like a horror-movie. Will they come and kill anti-Israelis in Europe too? If Israel are in WAR - this is act of WAR. BUT then Palestinians ALSO are in WAR, and then their actions also is acts of WAR, NOT TERRORISM. MAKE UP YOUR MIND! WAR or terror from both sides?

The bombers these terrorists have, and would have, sent cause a bit more than an Asthma attack and a 'disruption in treatment'. Also the stories that come from a PA agency, are suspicious -being the same one that during the Jenine operation claimed 'at least 500 civilians were 'massacred'-UN investigation and Right Watch later confirming 75 died - 25 soldiers, 25 terrorists and 25 civilians - so many soldiers BECAUSE they were risking themselves immensely to minimise cicilian casualties. Sounds familiar from Lebanon?...

...they should have kept their traps shut

When Hamas starts policing and arresting or killing militants we can take them a little seriously.Up to now they have done nothing and have aided or done just the militant work themselves. I have no faith in it happening though. Abbas is on the sidelines now and Hamas have a lot to prove before anyone will even think of trusting them. When are they releasing Shallit?

right to exist until a couple of weeks ago, is sharing with us his inside knowledge of the relationship between Islamic Jihad and other terror organizations. Yet, know full well that Hamas has overall responsiblity for what happens in the territory that it controls.

Indi (funny how you are called over an american idol such as Harrison ford!) you are forgetting that thanks to the efforts that arafat ahs dumped in 2000 the area is getting cleaner and cleaner. If only h kept the terrorists in their cells!

Clicky, a question. What is te size of Israel and the occupied territories put together? Out of which how much natural resources are there to sustein a large population let's say 10 million? You'll find it is diabolical to maintain that size in this patch of land. Further more, with the global warming predictions it will either be intolerable to live there and / or the land will retreat to almost 60 percent of the current land. what's the point of the "land grabbing"? Are you saying that Israelis are idiots? Or they forsee a different future? Or, you are just board living of off benefits? Go to work you lazy T****R!

"...to think about a totally peaceful third Intifada..." Given the fact that many EU officials are the quick learners of the situation, unlike many in the US Administration, I believe palestinians are really ready to a PEACEFUL INTIFADA (you know what, the basic idea of intifada is non-violence resistance, but Israel retaliates by broken those children backbones, deadly handgranates and put them into the adult prisons). However, I don't believe UE is powerful enough to do something on basis of PEACEFUL SETTLEMENT on this mother of all sickness of the world today.

I must say that I'm no more a frequent visitor of the site. Constantly there is news of killings of Palestinians, either caused by deplorable mistakes, or willfully aimed at by IDF! It cannot go on this way. To keep in the right Israel must also know how to use restraint. Ciao. Mario Fiorito

If the Palestinians really used their brains, they would engage in mass non-violent resistance of the sort Mohandas Gandhi preached. Imagine hundreds of thousands of unarmed (inclluding no rocks)Palestinians, mewn, women and children, marching on the security barrier. Israel would be unable to resist such nonviolent resistance and would be forced both to grant the Palestinians independence and to make considerable territorial concessions. But violence is an essential part of Arab culture. 12 Israeli Arab women were murdered by close relatives last year to "protect the family honor". (Why doesn't this ever happen to Arab men?)

Patients in a hospital in nablus, stormed by the IDF, had their treatment disrupted. A 47 year old asthma suffer, Ghareb Selbab, suffered a severe asthma attack, caused by tear gas thrown into his home by the IDF. Mr Selbab is now in hospital in a critical condition after being denied medical treatment for two hours by the IDF. Eight other people were denied Insulin.(Wafa News) Oops, mustn't mention any of this Israeli barbaric activity, the ADL will rant and rave!

Kol Hakavod and congratulations and a million thanks for keeping Israel safe. You are great!

"Qassam hit is in contradiction to Hamas Meshal" - Islamic Jihad not Hamas actually launched this rocket. Islamic Jihad are linked with Fatah. Those comments you actually refer to point nothing towards a contradiction in Meshal's statements.

Indrajaya, I agree with you that Hamas most probably needs a bit more time for a total change, at least if you compare it to how long the process was for example in organiza- tions like the IRA. That's why I think that the new EU-approach is quite wise ("we will judge them on their actions rather than on their words"). But that doesn't change my point, that it would be a good thing for the Palestinians to think about a totally peaceful third Intifada (at least if there is no chance for a dialogue with Israel in the very next future).

Clicky what nonsense and slander spews from your mind, 'the relative quiet within Palestinian Society is too much for Israel to bear' I suppose sending a pack of terrorists last week to blow up tel aviv is a perfect example of the 'relative calmness' or perhaps you dont really mind or care if thats what the Palestinians are really up too.

Palestine News Agency. I just added a new joke to my repertoire.

We pray for you and have you in our hearts.

..."this is not the end of the 80`s (first Intifada), the geo-political situation has totally changed since then..." Well, that is a sympathetic suggestion. Many of them are really maniacs I believe, like many maniac in the Israel side. But when it come to the EU and US, should they ignore the sign that Organization like HAMAS is ready to change too. Why punishing the palestinian people so hard while the western countries knew exactly that palestinian people were only exercising their rights to self determination by unleash the Intifada 1 & 2. Why don't try a new chapter in this already change GEOPOLITICAL LANSCAPE (like you mentioned)?

" It is quite evident that the Palestinians do not want peace ". Cipora, you should not fall into the generali- zation trap, some Palestinians do not want peace (most probably a minority), not "the Palestinians". Exactly the same way only some Israelis do not want peace (also a minority), and not "the Israelis". And by the way, to be correct, Hamas leader Meshal said in Russia that they would not yet be ready to regocnize Israel, but that they would stick to the cease fire and stop the attacks against Israelis.

Israel is targeting terrorists who send suicide bombers to kill civilians. What Israel is doing, is trying to prevent Bali type massacres Muslims always commit.

Wow, Cipora, you really agree with me...?? Probably the first time ever...?? Halleluja !!

Indrajaya, you know, I fully agree with you when it comes to the question of the settle- ments, but why on earth are the Palestinians not starting to use their brain and go them- selves after those organizations like Islamic Jihad who are obviously breaching the cease- fire. It is extremely important for the Pale- stinians that the cease fire holds, that's why they have to do everything possible now to stop attacks against Israelis. I am convinced if the Palestinians stop the violence now, they will get their state rather sooner than later, this is not the end of the 80's (first Intifada), the geo-political situation has totally changed since then, the pressure on Israel (if really needed) would be there this time, I am totally convinced of that.

Bravo, IDF and Border Police..I'll be drinking tonite to your contnued success. You guys are showing the world that there is no better way to fight terrorism than your way..Cheers!!

It is quite evident that the Palestinians do not want peace. Indeed, all of their acts point in the opposite direction. After meeting with the Russians, a Hamas spokesman reafirremed that Hamas will never recognize Israel, will never negotiate with Israel, and will keep working for the ultimate destruction of Israel.

Israeli special forces assassinated three Palestinians in Jenin Refugee Camp on Wednesday. Among them was the leader of Saraya Al Quds in the West Bank, Ashraf As Sa'adi. Eyewitnesses report that undercover forces had infiltrated the northern West Bank camp in car bearing Palestinian license plates.

See, this is typically Israel`s attitudes. This is the third provocation after that UNITY DEAL in MEKKA: 1. Temple Mount Construction. 2. Nablus Incursion yesterday. 3. Border police attack on Jihad Islam leader. 4. Now this Jenin killing. Israel expects HAMAS would retaliate by rocket fires and suicide bombings. ISRAEL DOESN`T WANT PEACE, because she enjoys this situation by spreading SETTLEMENTS and APARTHEID WALL.

It should be noted, The Islamic Jihad has claimed responsibility for a stabbing attack which left an Israeli man dead on Sunday night. The body of 42-year old Erez Levanon, of Gush Etzion, was found in an alleyway in the Palestinian village of Beit Omar, north of Hebron. On Monday the IDF arrested two Palestinians for the murder. In a statement released on Islamic Jihad's website on Monday evening, the group said two members of its al-Quds Brigades were "able to lure a settler into an agricultural area, and fatally stab him several times."

The Haaretz message board is increasingly looking like the Clickfool Daily News because so many people bother to reply to his flawed,bigotted,inaccurate postings. May I suggest an immediate and total boycott of all his rantings and ravings so that,hopefully,like a bad smell, he will eventually go away.

See, this is typically Israel's attitudes This is a third provocations that UNITY DEAL in MEKKA: 1. Temple Mount Construction. 2. Nablus Incursion yesterday. 3. Border police attack on Jihad Islam leader. 4. Now this Jenin killing. Israel expect HAMAS would retaliate by rocket fires and suicide bombings. ISRAEL DOESN'T WANT, because she enjoy this situation by spreading SETTLEMENTS and APARTHEID WALL.

"Border Police troops kill three Palestinians in Jenin raid" Only much further down in the article does the truth come out: Two of them were Islamic Jihad terrorists by Palestinian admission. Ha'aretz tries so hard to be "detached" that it is detached from reality.

For once, I totally agree with you. Unfortunately, the PA either does not have the force, or the political will to follow this advice. I suspect they have neither.

I'm not used to it. Keep up the good work.

Jenin - Ma'an - Israeli Special Forces assassinated three Palestinians in Jenin refugee camp in the north of the occupied West Bank on Wednesday morning, including two leaders from the Al Quds Brigades, the military wing of Islamic Jihad. Our correspondent in Jenin reported that the Special Forces infiltrated the camp in a civilian car bearing Palestinian number plates. The disguised Israeli soldiers then managed to assassinate Ashraf Sadi and Muhammad Abu Nasah of the Al Quds Brigades, and the taxi driver Ala' Breiki whom they were traveling with.

"Palestine News Agency-Wafa has reported that one of the victims was a taxi driver and the other 2 were innocent 18 year old youths." Usually I agree with your posts -- but not this one. Why in the hell should Israel go to all this trouble to kill three random Palestinians? They kill random Palestinians all the time -- but casually, not as the culmination of a carefully planned operation. At least two of the killed probably really were Islamic Jihad operatives. Not much doubt there. You quote a Palestinian news source -- but guess what? Israel doesn't have a monopoly on lying. It's important not to fall for the 'victimhood syndrome' -- the notion that simply having the bad luck to be oppressed confers some special virtue on the victims. The Palestinians haven't become saints simply because Israel happens to have sat on them. There's no especial reason to assume that they are telling the truth.

Mohammed Abu Ghali, the head of Jenin's main hospital, told Reuters that two members of the armed group Islamic Jihad and a civilian taxi driver were killed during an Israeli raid in the northern West Bank city. Palestinian witnesses said an undercover Israeli unit shot the two militants dead and killed the bystander driver.

by our continued presence in the west bank.there is no other way to obtain this level of intelligence.

Palestine News Agency-Wafa has reported that one of the victims was a taxi driver and the other 2 were innocent 18 year old youths. Here we have another in a long series of murders carried out by the Mossad's undercover unit (Dov Dovine). It would seem that the relative quiet within Palestinian society is too much for the Israel to bear. Palestinian civil war is clearly Israel's preferred solution to continue it's land grab, unabated.

....if the PA would do the right thing and go after those groups responsible for terror-attacks against Israeli civilians. It would not only be the smart thing to do in the interest of the Israelis but first and up- most it would serve the long-term interest of the Palestinian people. No violence = No excuse for not negotiating. At least no more excuse for the International community to accept the excuse...:)

Jews, expect to get hurt as well. It is time the Palestinian leaders put an end to terror in their areas, so that Israel does not have to do the policing, and killing when necessary.

If the Philistines would stop trying to murder, then NOBODY would get hurt- or killed. But if they continue to try and murder, then they will suffer the consequences of their actions. We can go on like for ever. They're going to be dying of starvation and facing the mother of all naqbas. It's that simple.

Statement see Haaretz report Last update 08:33 28/02/2007 , Lavrov: Russia will try to lift embargo on PA government By Avi Issacharoff and Amiram Barkat, Haaretz Correspondents , Haaretz quote " At the Moscow press conference, the Russian foreign minister said Meshal had promised an end to the Qassam rocket attacks against Israel. Calling on Hamas to use its strength to end the violence against Israel, Lavrov said that "we have received confirmation that such steps will be adopted," referring to an end to the rocket attacks. " , it wouldn't be a surprise to read or hear a Hamas led PA statement blaming this today rocket attack on the Neguev by a supposedly incontrolable pal group , the usual arab tactic denial , or excuse for revenge , or whatever else stupidity , on the other hand Israel Gov't is at fault for not enforcing the said Nov 2006 Gaza cease fire , moreover when this Gov't allowed pinpointed defensive and preventive real time actions against quassams squads