IDF soldier killed in Gaza; IDF kills armed Palestinian in West Bank

You claim your in Jerusalem ISRAEL - since palestine never existed - I assume your a Jordanian exile - who's fate is the result os ARAB AGRESSION - when Israel Kicked your butt's in 67 AGAIN. My advice to you is if you plan to pull the Tigers tail - have a plan for his teeth. One of these days - soon I hope israel will wake up and CRUSH THE LIVEING DAYLIGHTS OUT OF ALL TERRORISTS AND THEIR ALLIES

Or we could say, "withdrawing in a forward fashion", regarding the WB and Gaza. For all intents and purposes, Gaza is again being occupied by the IDF.

C: "The Palestinians committed in Oslo to cease all violence as the first step in the peace process." Done earlier, with the mutual exchange of letters, not in the Oslo Accords. C: "This particular condition has never been met." Actually, it was. The al-Aqsa Intifada did not start until Sept 2000 i.e. not until AFTER it had become apparent that Israel had no intention of fulfilling it's major commitments under the Accords. I'll note that the first major act of terrorism after Oslo was the Cave of the Patriarchs massacre of 29 Palestinians, which occured in Feb 1994. C: "It is also the fist condition for the implementation for 242" *sigh* Actually go and READ Resolution 242, ChanahS. You'll find the FIRST condition listed is this: "Withdrawal of Israeli armed forces from territories occupied in the recent conflict" Not much "withdrawing" been going on in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank. Just lots of "redeploying" of troops and figleafs.

Source: Noobster's Revised Unabridged Dictionary (1913) Insurgents \In*sur"gentz\, a. [L. insurgens, p. pr. of insurgere to rush in; pref. in- in + surgere to rush. See Surge.] "A motley crew of armed forces rushing in across borders (usually at night) in defiance of established government and international law; lawless; insubordinate; delusional." The Israeli insurgents in this case were met with a commensurate, callibrated and lawful reaction by the government of palestine, which quite literally took their breath away. This is the only way to cure their insufferable delusions of impunity and invincibility. But perhaps, in fairness to those IDF GameBoyz who are a little slow in the uptake, warning signs should now be posted around the borders of Gaza, saying: "Under New Management - Law #1 - Insurgents will be shot on sight"

1) I "encourage" Palestinian resistance? Odd use of the word. I *understand* why they are resisting, and what it is they are attempting to resist. 2) Israel has made "repeated attemps"? I talk about a "political settlement", Peter, but I don't know that you're talking about. Your examples Partition - Res 181? Not a Jewish initiative at all, but a British one. AND "Israel" DIDN'T EVEN EXIST THEN. 1967 - Revisionist rubbish. Israel put up no proposals at all, just sound grabs for the western media. 1973 - Revisionist rubbish. SADAT attempted to include a Israeli/Pal political settlement in his talks with Begin, and was rebuffed. Rabin - Oslo? THAT was an attempt at a political settlement? You mean something called the "Declaration of Principles on Interim Self-Government Arrangements" is NOT an interim agreement? Even tho that's what it is called? 3) Barak walked away because he was frightened Sharon would accuse him of weakness, Peter.

The fact that personnel of an army useless in a war against civilians is 'inexperienced' does not serve anyone's agenda. Soldiers should serve to defend the country, not to commit crimes against noncoms they're supposed to protect. Throwing stones by Arab (as well as Jewish kids) is an expression of protest against the established state of affairs -- the occupation, the restriction of free movement etc. To make IDF personnel 'experienced' and to tackle the lacking of a real war, it might be contemplated to offer a couple of thousands for UN duty and have them taught in keeping peace, protecting the needy, gaining a positive reputation. Rgds - JJ

In Northern Ireland there are both Catholic and Protestant Irish, and they had been fighting over religion for many years. In the capital, Belfast, the streets were divided into Catholic and Protestant sections. The IRA represented the Catholics and the Orangemen the Protestants. When the fighting became extreme the British army was sent there to try to keep the peace, but it made the entire situation worse. Thank goodness, the IRA ended its militant operations several years ago. It's difficult for me to understand fighting over any religion, but then, I don't believe in any religion either, so I can't understand how deep the feelings of people who do believe can run.

At the end of the day, I agree that the question is, did the Jenin Massacre happen? As you say it didn't, and it is Palestinian propaganda to say it did, can you provide some links to websites explaining what did actually happen? Because, in the BBC World News video I saw, the centre of Jenin refugee camp resembled a moon landscape...

There is also an Israeli organization who are against home demolitions, and there is Gush Shalom, another support group for Palestinian rights.

If you are referring to the murder of the Palestinian schoolgirl by the IDF who shot her from a watchtower, I agree with you, it is shameful and there should be justice for this little girl. I am a supporter of Palestinian rights, but what I wrote about so-called "honor killings" in England is, unfortunately, true..

"None of what you describe is Islamic" Maybe not, then you have a good many people posing as Muslims. I didn't describe it, the media did. I noted that 70% of the murders in the terroritories were girls being killed to restore "Family Honor". Just think, all those killers that sneaked into your midst and you didn't know about it.

Hello Lakshmi. I have never demanded that Gaza be razed. I would very much like to learn your thoughts in response to my question. That was, to repeat, is it not the case that *both* Fatah *and* Hamas are to be deplored, one especially for its corruption but also for its contempt for basic human rights, the other not for corruption (at least yet) but for its own contempt for basic human rights -- in particular, that to practise (or not practise) the religion of one's choosing?

lakshmi. Yes Hamas brought law and order,BUT kind of order do you call it? Murdering each other the dominating factor of the ?Sharia Law?,shutting down internet cafes, women being treated as second class citizens. Please take your head out of the sand.You are here merely to justify anything the Palis do by permeating your agenda.Nothing good about them whatever. If you think they secured Johnston?s release hog wash! It was engineered by bribery and corruption and merely to show the powers around the world( for which nowadays are quite used to their disgusting behaviour)And do not put any trust and desist in sending their envoys or journalists.Food for thought lakshmi. Whether Israel is stalling for peace or not has nothing to do with your likes and get off your high horse,for you have no idea how policies in the political arena works.Just mouthing your usual nonsense is the highest form of ignorance and propagandizing what you perceive, and faulty throughout.. The longer the Palis continue with their intransigence the longer this affair will last,and those Palis you are so fond of will continue in their misery. Worry not will beat them at their own game and will prevail. Finally,as I told someone here,this is war, and casualties happen,although it is regrettable.

Just as he did at Camp David, Arafat put his own political fortunes and desire to not be killed by Hamas, in front of his desire to find peace. He left Barak no choice. In the midst of an intifada arafat started, and with Barak at the table and close to a deal, he needed the arab "street" to see him as a strong man, a resistance fighter, with little regard for how that might play in Israel. What troubles me most here is that this was borne out by the fact that 18 monoths later with his political fortunes crumbling, Arafaat pleaded for a return to the Taba principles. What does all this mean? 1. Political neogtiations such as this do not take place in a vacuum, and to be taken seriously both parties must acknowledge the constraints on the other party and not exacerbate them. Both sides have made mistakes here but at cd and Taba it was Arafats doing. 2. Of great concern are people like you who seem to use Wikipedia as their source for what happened in the world. sophmoric.

Johnboy, lets get to your assertions: 1. The only solution to this problem is a political solution. I agree whole heartedly. Stragely this conflicts with most of your other posts encouraging Palestiian resistance. 2. The only time Israel tried to make peace was in camp david -taba. Totally False. Israel had attempted to make peace and agreed to International peace plans repeatedly. At Partition, in 67, 73, and also Rabin. In all those cases, it was not Israel who walked away. 3. It was Barak who walked away. While it is true Barak walked away, his reasons for doing so must be blamed on Arafat's behaviour. Israel had given up much, the refugee issue had even been partially resolved, though there was still ambiguity. 2 days before an Israeli election, in which his partner in peace was seeking election, Arafat publically rebuked him and Israel in Davos, calling Israel "barbaric". In other words, Arafat put his own political fortunes ahead of the process. Barak at that point had to stop

But it is commonly practiced by Moslems. Are you saying they're all infidels?

Doubt whether all the Irish in whose namee you speak would agree with you.

I understood him perfectly. It must be your blinders and shallow knowledge of what is actually happening in reality.

Read the holy Koran if you want to see what Islam is about: Islam has nothing to do with such vicious misogeny. If the real Islam is so wonderful, why does it seem that most Moslems are NOT following it?

hi so-called, for someone who just a few posts ago condescendingly castigated someone for namecalling, you're proving to be a full blown hypocrate on rather several levels.

Trade and Labor Unions are already in dustbins of history, merely bacuae they've missed their mark. Since industry has gone hi-tech there is nothing much left for them to do, in western countries that is. So they've turned to international politics instead of taking up the cuaes for which they were created - protecting the overworked and underpaid. So instead of focusing on child, forced and slave labor in the Far East (China and others), they have sold their sold to the highest bidders - this time Islamic benefactors, and while their only countries are neck deep in the shit of Iraq and Afghanistan (which is nowhere near them and by which they are not threatened on a daily basis), they castigate Israel for defending itself. They have made themselves irrelevant.

FIRST Mohammed must answer my questions. Simple reason is that one builds a house from the basement up, not the top down. SECOND, who in the devil does he think he is to issue commands. Your two links, fit for the garbage they usually put out. Totally biased and always have been. If you're the same as Maureen Ann, you should set an example, hop the flight you've been avoiding, then give your opinions. If you can't be believed when you make a promise, how can you believed in anything you say.

I just wanted to drop you a note since my note to you the other day did not surface. It was on the article about jewish leaders. You were complaining about a particular post. I never respond to posts that are from neo-nazi types. Personally, I think it is best to ignore them. I do respond at times to islamists for tactical reasons. Your posts are very good. We must continue to expose lies--lllaksh is a pathological one. So I am very glad that you take care of her. She is one to watch. Shabbat Shalom, dear Chana

altogether. The Palestinians committed in Oslo to cease all violence as the first step in the peace process. This particular condition has never been met. It is also the fist condition for the implementation for 242. No talks can be held whhile Israel is under attack.

I'm glad Haaretz has chosen to show the image of Arbel Reich. He looked a fine young man and I'm sure his parents and family are now beyond consolation over his loss. All the wonderful tomorrows are gone. To his family he is irreplaceable, only those who have themselves suffered devastating loss can know how they are feeling today. It is the duty of older men to make sure that their sons do not die in unnecessary wars. This holds as true for the Palestinians as it does for the Israelis. I wish all those who steer events in the region the vision, the magnanimity, the courage to do what has to be done for peace. And may they all do so without the prejudices, the anger, the hatred, the agendas, the baggage of the past

Jenin did happen alright, but not as described by the Palestinians - who initially called it a massacre with at least 500 dead. It was all a big lie, as were the clips about the destruction of the city of Jenin. It was a military operation, not a massacre, in a particular neighborhodd of the refugee camp in Jenin, in which aroud 50 armed terrorists were killed, as well as 22 Israeli soldiers - because the area had been booby-trapped with mines. So any talk of a massacra is blatantly untrue- as has been confirmed by the appropriate UN body. Calling it a massacre is misusing the English language (which Arabs are good at) and a perpetuation of a lie for political purposes. To me, your comparison between the scope of a combat operation in which 22 soldiers and 50 terrorists are killed to the scope of the Holocaust means that in fact there is no common ground for any further discussion with you.

IDF man gun down a little Pal. girl with 13 rounds. He is not in prison now, still kill pals children.But of course, all the little Pal girls are still very dead...

So? His point was to clear his name, not to make a profit!

the subject you can avoif answering things you know nothing about? The subject was past wars which you claimed Israel would have lost without UN intervention. You said nothing about US assistance, so why bring that in now. But seeing as you do, See Peter SM's # 203, because he gave you the answer.Up to 1973 there was no military aid at all from the US, France was Israel's main arms supplier. In 1973 USA carries out an airlift to "replace what Israel used to fend of a combined Egyptian Syrian assault" - not a bullet more. But I don't get your point? Were Syria and Egypt not armed to the hilt by the Societs - including Russian pilots and other operators manning the sophisticated equipment that the locals couldn't get a grasp of????? So first you make false assertions as if they were fact (you never even have the humility of checking), and then you change the subject to avoid explaining or being challenged. Sleeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeeze!

You talk about an imaginary Hamas. It's no unitary government. It's a group of dissidents with their head in Damascus at present. Yes, the policing in Gaza consists in the Sharia law police making sure that women wear burkas and men wear beards. The policing insures that internet shops are trashed so that western influence doesn't spoil the religious purity of its people. The only aim they all have in common is not the building of a nation but the destruction of Israel, and this they have in common with you.

Home Demolitions. 1. "Rabbis For Human Rights" 'Home Demolitions in East Jerusalem; Questions That Should be Frequently Asked.' http://www.rhr-na.org/homedemolitions/questions.html 2. "Amnesty International" 1 December 2006. 'Israel/Occupied Territories: Road to Nowhere.' http;//web.amnesty.org/library/index/engmde150932006 Thank you Haaretz.

"`virtually helpless refugee camps` sheltering only a few mortar guns, rocket launchers and/or homicide bomb manufacturers. Nobody polices them, so the IDF has to" Of course the Palestinians have a few weapons. Every resistance movement does. My hope is that they've managed to smuggle some decent anti-aircraft and anti-tank missiles into Gaza, to make the brave boys of the IDF sweat a little when they go barging into Palestinian refugee camps. As for nobody policing Gaza, this is simply not true. Hamas is imposing peace and order and discipline in the place - it has banned the wearing of masks, so that all gunmen can be identified, and is busy rounding up illegal weapons. Use your common sense. Hamas is the party of government in Gaza. They want their decisions, their policies to be implemented. They will not tolerate governments within their government, which means that they will destroy the power base of the clans.

"Listen to Mr. Fayyad" Why should we do that, Brant? The man is a head-nodder, a toady, an unelected nobody, selected by an Israeli Uncle Tom. He is not representative of anyone but himself. The opinions of the first Palestinian you met in the street would be as valid.

"the Palestinians conditions are largely their own doing" This is a lie. The appalling conditions the Palestinians endure are the direct result of the Greater Israel project, the Zionist dream of taking more real estate for the Jews of Israel. All the misery of the region springs from this.

Well, do you know what peace is?Have you experienced it?Does it exist in your country?HAHAS has brought law and order!The taleban SHARIA based law and order?Which is criminal in actuality.HAMAS has overthrown legitimate Palestinean Authority.Are they not renegades?What peace can be achieved with people of weird perspectives like you?

"If you want them stopped, then reach a political settlement with the Palestinians. Then THEY will stop firing them." You are as wrong as you could be. It's pointless mentioning it to you since your attitude is set in stone. But every time that there have been important peace moves during the past 60 years there have been accompanying terrorist attacks in one form or another on Israel. It was known that even the announcement of the visit of an international 'peacemaker' would call out a whole batch of extra would-be suicide bombers. Something there is that doesn't want peace between Israel and the Palestinians and it's called the Arab League. This attitude has been fostered among the Palestinians to such an extent that they have forgotten that their goal is or should be, reasonable lives. The problem with westerners, such as yourself (apart from your affection for toothless legal abstractions) is that you honestly seem to believe that the Palestinians want peace.

This was an army raid. These weren't adventurous souls out for a jaunt. I remember your saying that you are a Jew. Since we regard each individual as a world in himself, it's not one person we have lost, but a complete world.

That's what the IDF is looking for: 'virtually helpless refugee camps' sheltering only a few mortar guns, rocket launchers and/or homicide bomb manufacturers. Nobody polices them, so the IDF has to. Or would you risk your puny neck to go and sort it all out and stop the warfare? Of course you wouldn't, so it's up to IDF soldiers to do so. At one stage they used to go door to door until these 'virtually helpless' people taught them better.

JB: "if you want them stopped, then reach a political settlement with the Palestinians.Then THEY will stop firing them" P: "its not that simple" Really? Based only on your own biased opinion of what *would* happen *if* a political settlement with the Palestinians is ever reached? It is axiomatic that this conflict between Israel and the Palestinians will never stop WITHOUT a political settlement, Peter. THAT'S WHAT A POLITICAL SETTLEMENT IS. No such settlement has ever been reached with the Pals, and the one and only attempt to achieve one was started by Barak at Camp David in 2000 and then ended by him at Taba in 2001. That's it; one attempt, and the Israeli who initiated it just up and walked away. The Pals have shown over 40 years that they will *not* sign just any ol' agreement - i.e. sign it in bad faith - *just* to end the occupation. They are sticking to their guns - literally - precisely because they take the idea of a final settlement VERY seriously.

AND ANOTHER WHY ARE YOU CALLING A TERRORIST ARMED palestinian.HE WAS A TERRORIST THAT WANTED TO KILL CIVILIANS.HAARETZ MUST START TO USE THE RIGHT WORDS.

"Who is in charge,??.The Army or the government.Why the confusion." No confusion really, it's very straighforward. With a people's army almost everyone is or was once army, including most of the people in charge. Now if we also had a people's diplomatic corps we'd be able to redress the balance somewhat. Come to think of it Labhras, that'd be a really good solution for some of the sectors of the population who are exempted from military service here. Thanks for the idea. Read Mark Lincoln's post 245 for added insight on what you call "confusion".

Labhras join North Ireland to the boycott, at least Israel is doing one thing right, and it is preventing you Irish lot from butchering one another in the name of Christianity! Yes I can live with that! p.s. Didn?t understand you conflict (Catholics, Protestants, all Christians killing one another), what was it all about a war of religion by which both are Irish Christians?

Question: Are you a woman? I don`t know why, but from your posts I always saw you as a man. Then why did you ask this question? Disregard the beard and peyes I sometimes put on to make an ignorant point or two. They're from the Purimschpiel box.

None of what you describe is Islamic.

Clickfool have they or have they not killed hundreds daily! Your statement that is based on what you think is some wishful thinking of PM Sharon or Israelis, in order to justify your post is totally unacceptable! And doesn?t contradict Honest Obsrvation?s claims that if this was a policy, you would see Arab civilians casualties in the hundreds-daily. Hundreds daily-can?t you grasp this? I presume you can?t! Clickfool start looking at other countries in which atrocities have and are happening, in order to get some idea how many people die when real atrocities happen, for a quick lookup see what is happening in Sudan RIGHT NOW, by no means am I telling you to leave your Palestinian cause, but start understanding that the casualties Israel is inflicting (unintentionally) on Palestinian civilians is minimal by all standards! No need to say that casualties that are killed intentionally are even less frequent and are dealt in a court of low!

All the anti Israel resolutions UAP (United Antisemitic Proletariat)passes - all l0 millions of them - have no significance at all. Try to boycott Moon, Satan and your own government.

Silvienne Silvienne it doesn?t matter that the Israelis didn?t allow any UN inspectors or aid workers in for days, or that a UN official said it was like, like, like, LIKE a WASTELAND. At the end of the day the question is: Has there or Has there Not been A MASSACRE of Palestinians in Jeannine in April 2002? And the answer is NO, NO, NO So that is PURE PROPOGANDA no matter how you look at it!

Since there are now so many "asylum seekers" in England, mostly from Iraq, several "honor killings" have been reported from Birmingham, where there is a large Iraqi population nowadays. My friend at home sends me snippets from the newspapers and I read one recently about a 20 yr old Turkish-Iraqi girl murdered by her father and uncle. They are both in prison now. But of course, she is still very dead...

"I wonder if she could tell us why Muslim women in canada were instrumental in forbidding the introduction of sharia law fdor civil issues is canada." - Danite A simple reason, they had seen better and they are not nuts. Which leads me to the most effective method to defeat religious extremism. Jujitsu. The very extremism will defeat itself if it is given time, and adroit opposition instead of outright aggression in opposition.

"But what do you do when the army is too influential in the security/foreign policy business?" - Tosefta There are incredible differences between the US and Israel, and there are incredible similarities. Amongst those similarities is what Eisenhower called the "unwarranted influence' of the "military industrial complex." The foreign policies have failed, and national security suffered of both the US and Israel in the last decade for the same reason. Military force exists to serve the foreign policy and national security needs of a nation. The nation does not exist to allow the military force to be the foreign policy and national security needs of that nation. While the Second Lebanon War is not as egregious an example as the Iraq war (at least Hizbollah, if not Lebanon, provided a provocation), both were wars which did not need to be, the prosecution of which was based upon the capabilities of the armed forces and not upon the realities of the situation.

No matter how much I believed you (I didn't) there's so much evidence that disputes your version of "Honor Killing" that makes it your statement laughable..."Commodifying Honor in Female Sexuality: Honor Killings in Palestine Suzanne Ruggi The family constitutes the fundamental building-block of Palestinian society. Family status is largely dependent upon its honor, much of which is determined by the respectability of its daughters, who can damage it irreparably by the perceived misuse of their sexuality Every year, hundreds of women and girls are murdered in the Middle East by male family members. The honor killing-the execution of a female family member for perceived misuse of her sexuality-is a thorny social and political issue. Palestinian activists campaigning for equality find it difficult to stop the killings altogether. Legitimacy for such murders stems from a complex code of honor ingrained in the consciousness of some sectors of Palestinian society. Given that honor killings often remain a private family affair, no official statistics are available on the practice or its frequency. According to a November 1997 report of the Woman's Empowerment Project published in Al-Hayat Al-Jadida, there were 20 honor killings in Gaza and the West Bank in 1996. One representative of the group added, "We know there are more but no one publicizes it." Similarly, an unofficial report given to the Palestinian Women's Working Society stated that "recently" 40 women have been killed for honor in Gaza. The report defined neither the period in which these murders took place nor the exact circumstances. During the summer of 1997, Khaled Al-Qudra, then Attorney General in the Palestinian National Authority (PNA), told Sout Al-Nissa' (Women's Voices), a supplement published by the Women's Affairs Technical Committee (WATC), that he suspects that 70 percent of all murders in Gaza and the West Bank are honor killings

Are you filled with hate and racism and hypocrasy?

Your post doesn't make any sense. Re-check the numbers.

Still blaming the jews for ending up on the dole I see.

"Hannah, Contrary to your statement, ?Honor Killing? is an old time established tradtion still prevalent in Palestinian society. PUBLICATIONS & REPORTS The Palestinian Human Rights Monitor The bi-monthly publication of the PHRMG Honor Killing Killing of Women on the Basis of Family Honor 1. Introduction The issue of women rights often causes uneasy discussions, particularly in the Arab world. Although the Arab woman has made great advances in the academic and professional fields during the last forty years, she still faces social discrimination, especially in traditional rural communities. In those societies, the woman is still treated in a traditional manner, with negligence to her basic rights. She is regarded as being inferior to man, and not deserving to enjoy the same rights. This belief is based and built upon a long series of customs and traditions. Despite the fact that the Arab woman has attained some of her rights in the last few decades, there are still some instances of discrimination and violence practiced against her. Some of those are reflected in the phenomenon of killing women on the background of the honor of the family. Honor killing is considered to be a crime that threatens the unity and harmony of the community, and it acts as a barrier preventing women from progressing in their lives. It is necessary to admit that using the expressing ?on the background of the honor of the family? indirectly provides an excuse for the killer, and blames the victim without giving her the opportunity to defend herself. Therefore, some female writers suggest the phrase ?the crime of killing women for family honor?. ( A. Khader, 1999, Page18, Abdo, 1999, Page 156 and Zaghbabeh, 1998, Page 11) The social definition, that is acknowledged traditionally, is that honor killing has to do with the woman alone, the woman who has a (sexual) contact with a man ?outside the frame of marriage- is killed in order to maintain, and protect, the honor of the family. Honor is one of the core values of Arab society. This fact supports the belief that this society devaalues the position of woman. The interests of the active powers within Middle Eastern society decide the definition of this value. The dominating powers or the higher class in the society determines the meaning of honor as suits their interests. (Al- Zayat, 1993, Page 66 and Abdo 1999, Page 13) Once we realize this fact, we discover the misinterpretation of the meaning of honor. The noble values of dignity and seniority are neglected. Instead, the only focus is on the woman?s body and her virginity. According to this definition, the woman is an object owned by the man who assumes responsibility for her behavior and her life. The social traditions lead to the isolation of the woman in her home. She is required to cover her entire body in order to maintain the honor of the man. A decent honorable man has to have a decent honorable woman. The major factor in this theory is the body of the woman that is capable of bringing new members for the family, so that it can extend and live longer. Thus, the woman?s body is the private property of her husband. By maintaining and protecting it, there will be no confusion between families in the community. The family, and men in particular, have the responsibility to defend the honor of ?their? woman. (Al-Turki and Zuraiq, 1995, individual decide the role of a human being in a community, not by his gender. Therefore, man?s power to develop his society is the real factor that defines his value. (N. al-Sa?dawi, 1977) Killing of women on the basis of the honor of the family is a crime committed by man against a woman who is very closely related to him. The motive for this crime, as defined by traditional factors, is defending the honor of the family. But the behavior itself that harms the honor is illegal sexual contact that brings shame to the family, as defined by the traditions of the community.

At least have the grace and honesty to admit you have been exposed as a hypocrtie.

Here we have dana flying her true clolours as a primitve arab racist nationalist under the guiose of hannah.Dana claims to be a progressive and yet as hannah she makes excuses for Islamic laws about women.I wonder if she could tell us why Muslim women in canada were instrumental in forbidding the introduction of sharia law fdor civil issues is canada.

Hannah, Contrary to your statement, ?Honor Killing? is an old time established tradtion still prevalent in Palestinian society. PUBLICATIONS & REPORTS The Palestinian Human Rights Monitor The bi-monthly publication of the PHRMG Honor Killing Killing of Women on the Basis of Family Honor 1. Introduction The issue of women rights often causes uneasy discussions, particularly in the Arab world. Although the Arab woman has made great advances in the academic and professional fields during the last forty years, she still faces social discrimination, especially in traditional rural communities. In those societies, the woman is still treated in a traditional manner, with negligence to her basic rights. She is regarded as being inferior to man, and not deserving to enjoy the same rights. This belief is based and built upon a long series of customs and traditions. Despite the fact that the Arab woman has attained some of her rights in the last few decades, there are still some

From the people of Ireland to our Palestinian brethern. You are very welcome.

a new person.

Wake up Brant . There is a real world out there. Tony Blair is already demanding that his role be expanded to include monitoring Israels actions. Vis a vis, Halting expansion of illegal settlements and ending roadblocks etc. Rips are already showing in the cloth of fabrication that israel and US is trying to foist on the not so naive world audience. Regards

Johnboy you have stated:"if you want them stopped, then reach a political settlement with the Palestinians.Then THEY will stop firing them.It. Is. As. Simple. As. That." See the thing is Johnboy, its not that simple, and your statement to that effect suggests that you have little knowledge about the groups you speak of. Hamas and Islamic Jihad both have within their charters that they cannot reach a political solution with Israel that includes the state of Israel surviving. They believe it to be the domain nly of Allah to make such a deal, and since last I checked allah was not represented at the bargaining table, what are you to make of it. Arafat was captive to that fact and knew if he accepted a deal at camp david he would be killed by his own people. So tell me about this political solution please. And before you try and sell it to israel, try to ensure that the other party is even capable of making a deal.

Please do attempt to be more clear. Exactly what are you trying to say?

Yep, I can give you some clues to do this work yourself. Read the holy Koran; nowhere will you find this sort of recipe for oppression of women. There are age-old 'cultural' traditions, such as this horrible and barbaric surgery upon small girls (which comes from Africa); from Pakistan comes other 'cultural' misogenous traditions. However, none of that has to do with Islam. Read the holy Koran if you want to see what Islam is about: Islam has nothing to do with such vicious misogeny. Actually, for someone like you, it is readily apparent that you need the real goods on Islam. Go for it.

Jason writes: Give me your home address.... What for, So you can demolish it and deposit Illegal settlers. Right. Fat chance thief in the night.

As Eamon McMahon of TUFP commented, ‘ICTU is the largest mass organisation of the Irish working class. It represents all sections of labour - from low-paid to senior management - and all sectors of industry and employment. It is highly significant that there was no opposition at all to any of the motions, despite the fact that they represent what must be one of the strongest positions adopted by any trade union congress in the world. He continued, ‘Today's conference demonstrates that the people of Ireland - north and south - are steadfast in their commitment to stand in solidarity alongside their long-suffering and heroic Palestinian brothers and sisters’. This is the latest in a series of trade union support for the international campaign for Boycott, Divestment and Sanctions. In Britain, the TUC has recently passed a boycott resolution in response to previous resolutions by journalists and university lecturers unions, in addition to the general union UNISON. Large unions in places like South Africa and Canada have also supported this campaign. In Ireland last month NIPSA (the Northern Ireland Public Sector Association) unanimously supported a call for boycotts and sanctions. There is little doubt that in passing this resolution, ICTU accurately represents the mood of its members and of the Irish public in general.

It.Is. Actually.As.Simple.As.This: The number of Qassams has declined. A goodly number of Qassam shooters have followed the writing on their headbands to that special place reserved for those "martyred" for such acts of lovingkindness. The ordinary people of Gaza have lost even more with the Hamas takeover. And while this kind of rocket fire can't be completely stopped, it should be evident, even to the thick-headed, that Isrsel is doing a far, far better job of eliminating the shooters that the shooters are doing in their attempts to kill Israelis. So yes, keep congratulating each other on your posts. It's wonderful to look at things through your blinders from time to time. Think maybe you both need a little rest. Your interpretrive powers seem on the decline. Listen to Mr. Fayyad. He's saying some interesting things.

In keeping with the Irish Peoples committment to justice and common decency the Following decision was made by the Irish Congress of Trade Unions. It is welcomed by all people seeking justice for the beleagerd People of Palestine. IPSC warmly welcomes the strong Palestinian solidarity motion passed at the biennial Irish Congress of Trade Unions (ICTU) conference last weekend. This resolution called for boycott and divestment from Israel and companies such as CRH who are building Israel’s apartheid Wall, and for support for beleaguered Palestinian trade unions. The motion authorized the leadership of the Irish trade union movement to undertake a wide range of measures to oppose Israel’s oppressive actions and to show solidarity with Palestinians. These include a commitment to "actively and vigorously" promote a policy of boycott and of divestment, to make direct representations to government and to the EU, and to mobilise EU-wide trade union solidarity action. Conference also called upon ICTU to send a senior delegation to the Palestinian territories to establish solidarity links. It also welcomed the establishment by ICTU of Trade Union Friends of Palestine.

Ben Jabo is incapable of consequential thought. He has been left behind as the schoolyard bully in kindergarten where such non-think taunts are perhaps scary to other small children, aged five. Continue on, Muhamad. Al Fatiha.

to understand "Honor Killings". We never came across that in hour history, seems to be a Muslim innovation. Kill the victim, let the attacker go free. Can you explain the reasoning for it, after all, you explaining everything else??

"Israel can go only so far, however much it like a Final Solution of the Palestinian problem." Clicky Kind of a blind unsubstantiated supposition even for you click. I guess all the bad things that happened to the Jews the past few thousand years were in anticipation of the bad things the Jews MIGHT do to the PALS.

Maybe if the innocent civilians stopped allowing the nice Hamas people to stop using their homes to plan the elimination of Israel there would be no collateral damage. But I guess you missed that point.

Maybe if the friendly Hamas PALs would stop threating to wipe Israel of the face of the earth. And if the kindly innocent residents of Gaza stopped allowing them to plan attacks against Israel in their neighborhoods Israel could turn their bulldozers into plow shears. But I guess you missed that one.

So right you are, Johnboy. But do you suppose that the zionists will ever be able to wrap their more than lethargic minds around it?

After 2000 years of antisemitism with no end in sight, even you click, must admit Israelis/Jews still need all the watching over they can get after all we are only one WMD from extinction. But I guessed you missed the programs, expulsions, inquisitions, holocaust etc.

I read post #172 there is no answers to my two little sweet questions again. Ben jabo in the begining I said if you dont answer my two questions you will be judged. Now you lost your argument.

The events I mentioned pre-date yours. Be good enough to respond, you were rather insistent and persnikety when you asked for my response.

She must share that dubious honor with Daffy Dutch & Maureen Ann, might as well throw Ballistic into the mix, plus that gal in Kalifornia, Durson by name.

You wrote:" In true ME style, we only learn the hard way and when it does eventually sink in it might dawn that it`s the government more than the army that needs to `do something` now." Who is in charge,??.The Army or the government.Why the confusion.

When someone criticizes Israel with valid factual critisisms, then Israelis will not view them as Anti-Semitic. However, when posts on this site or anywhere else criticize Israel with NO factual or valid criticims, then obvioulsy that poster has biasis and hidden agenda's - such as spreading Anti-Semitism. So for example, saying that Israel was wrong to target 5 Palestinian terrorists, errr militants, because it was not a proportionate response to their initial strike on Israel - that doesn't carry much bias, hence Anti-Semitic feelings. However, saying Israel is a terrorist state because they killed 4 Palestinians without acknowledging the fact that it was in response to a initial terror attack against Israel..well this obviously has a biased view and therefore carries a hateful message not just for Israel but for Jews in general.

Give me your home address.... I will come and fire Quassam missiles at your house everyday. If you respond by trying to harm me, then (by what you say in your postings on this site) let it be known that you are the terrorist, not me!!!

ChanahS: "If the IDF were there permanently they would not be lobbing Qasams into Israel" Care to look up when the first qassams started lobbing on Israeli heads, ChanahS? First fired into Gaza settlements in 2001. The first qassams landed inside Israeli territory in 2002. Now, maybe I'm not reading my history books correctly, ChanahS, but I believe you will find that the IDF was rather the "occupying power" in 2001. Qassams were being fired out of Gaza when the IDF were stationed in the strip, and they continued to be fired out of Gaza when the IDF redeployed out. The IDF, ChanahS, can't stop them, and never have been able to stop them. If you want them stopped, then reach a political settlement with the Palestinians. Then THEY will stop firing them. Until you do, THEY will keep firing them, and the IDF can't make them stop. It. Is. As. Simple. As. That.

chet The soldiers are all very young.Do you think the soldiers fighting in Iraq and Afghanistan are all old? There are many the same age you know.. The fact that this soldier is 21yrs old is not unusual. It has been the practice as far as I?m aware since the IDF was established. Poor fellow,probably just finished his military service.They usually go on a ?sabbatical?.But he may have wanted to continue and serve his country.You know,there is a thing called ?patriotism? in case it slipped your mind. Please,it is bad enough to come here and feel regret on his passing but life is not all honey in the military,and deaths do happen. And that Khouri being so cruel,thinking that the Israeli soldiers are going to find it hard from now on.Well,he can think again.He is one of the VILE and hate filled man and he seems to delight in it. We do get them here do we not eh? Much as all of us regret and send condolences, it will not bring the young fellow back. There are many like him on the front lines you know.And please don't refer to him(as pimple-faced)chet. I am going to put a question to you thus:?What did you do in the War Daddy?? If you had/have a son what will you tell him? I do not know your age,nor am I going to be patronizing by being personal. It just came to mind ?IF? if you see my point? By the way,don?t denigrate this young man. He rose to the rank of Staff Sgt, which says something about his ability and would have made a career?s officer had he lived. So,think about it for a bit? P/S Yes, we do have young Generals. Not as young naturally

CLickfool, yesterday Israel was the real terrorists simply because more Palestinians died in this conflict than ISraelis. You had no regard for how or why they died in your analysis. Pure numbers. Once again, your analysis of the situation based solely on the fact that more Palestinians have died is misguided and absurd. All innocent life is worth saving Clickfool, but the Palestinians conditions are largely their own doing.

"it`s the government more than the army that needs to `do something` now." - Sh I have to agree. But what do you do when the army is too influential in the security/foreign policy business? So far, since Sharon's days, the reaction to everything was on the military level. Livni has some diplomatic ideas but it seems Olmert is not listening. Question: Are you a woman? I don't know why, but from your posts I always saw you as a man.

This is my second attempted response to you. On these threads, we are required to exchange our ideas and our opinions. We are not expected to call names or any other such playground activities. I can readily understand that you disagree with my point-of-view; why not dispute it with your own point-of-view? It requires some research and some logical and reasoned thinking: however, the entire process is both educational and edifying. Please do give it a try. Why not start with refuting my views, whenever I post them? I promise to be fair in my come-back posts.

Nobody is more critical of Israel than Israeli themselves, and there are many things (most which none of you are even aware of) that need criticizing. However, we somehow have a sixth sense about these things - I suppose from centuries of experience of anti-Semitism (when there was no Israel) to be able to differentiate and jusdge when a criticism is valid or when it derives from sentiments other than face value. Believe me, we can smell it a mile off (like in your posst, for example).

The racist Islamist indoctrination in the OFFICIAL media and the glorification of martyrdom? Please!

When I first replied I didn't notice Ha'Aretz had posted my reply. Now the shoe, although it pinches is on your foot, where are your answers to MY questions. Demanding little bugger aren't you?

What do you call those Palestinian's that continually fire rockets in soverign Israeli territory and kill innocent Israeli civilians? What do you think of the Pali's that wear homicide bomb belts and blow themselves up in Israeli market places, busses, catering halls and anyplance else they can sneak into?... What do you call Pali's that elected a Hamas government that refuses to make peace with Israel... Talking of hell, Pali's lit the fire themselves, poured on the coals and added gasoline to the mix... Terrorism is in the eye of the beholder, that's what the Pali's are doing. They even shoot each other to keep their hand in. Yup, terrorist keeping their skills up-to-date. Forgot to mention, they also throw each other off highrise buildings, executions in the streets, no trial, just line em up and shoot. Now that's REAL TERRORISM!!

1967 and 1973 war? Hope you are NOT a history teacher. The USA was "neutral in word thought and deed" in 1967'and did not supply Israel with weapons. In 1973 the USA gave Israel a critical re supply.The Soviets saved their Arab clients when the war turned against your brothers in 1973 with Israel on BOTH sides of Suez,their3rd army sorrounded by Ariel Sharons troops and Israel troops about 60 kms from Damascus. Your brothers despite their surprise attack on the holiest day of the Jewish calendar did not gain one cm. Some Arab victory!

Ben Jabo my two questions in post #114 not answered. Dont play games with me. I asked you first you should answer me first, do not pose another questions to distract. So give me the answers. other wise you lost your argument with me.

difference.They are coming as reps.of their own countries but you think they are seriously going to depart from the Arab Initiative. Both Abdullah and egypt have high stakes in the process.Jordan has repeatedly stressed the AI. The Arab League will not come for reasons of protocol,mainly but also they don't want to be seen as returning empty handed. And Olmie,seems to be veering inch by inch to the table.Last chance !

All they have to do is stop attacking israel and inviting Israeli responses.

does anyone else find it curious that anti-semitism/anti-israeli is becoming increasingly synonymous with pro human rights? when will the israelis and their oundits recognize that you can criticize israel and not be anti-israeli/anti-semite. how many decades can this crutch be used to support israeli crimes against humanity?

So much for the benefits of unilateral pull outs and evicting " settlers ". This boy might be alive today - if is STOOD STRONG and didn't yield under terrorist pressure.

Do you forget about the qassams being shot at Israel, or is that the jews are not entitled to the same self defence?

If memory serves correctly, King Hussain of Jordan and Naser of Egypt discussed a plan to claim that the US had helped Israel in 1967, only to have their conversation recorded by Israeli intelligence and broadcast on radio. When it comes to news and facts, the arab/islamic world is on a different planet.

Just how many Jews were displaced & driven from Jerusalem by the Arabs when they conquered the city in 1948? How many synagogues and Yeshivot were destroyed. How many graves were defiled when their tombstones were remove by the Jordan Legion, to be used as paving block as walkways to the Jordanian Army latrines? Give me your count, I'll give you mine. Matter of actual fact, I still can't find my Great Aunt Helen's grave or the stone marker. Maybe you can help in locating it.

Very well said Bill , this is the mother of all responses , Period

"If you see someone in your garden outside your home with a gun, you would probably shoot them thinking they were trying to kill you. Substitute "someone with a gun" with "tanks and armoured bulldozers". No wonder the Palestinians shot back. I call it self-defense." Now substitute some of your words, gun is being fired (rocket) from "outside the garden into my home", knowing darn well they're trying to kill me, otherwise they wouldn't be firing the rockets. I then find it necessary to go outside and attempt to prevent him firing even more rockets. See how the scenario changes? It's no longer Palestinian self-defense, just Pali's being their usual selves.

Egypt & Jordan AREN'T coming to present the fake "Peace Plan" to Israel. Your info is already out of date. Their reps, if they come will only represent their own governments. Sorry if I woke you up.

Just shows the Arab mindset. Irrational at best, bloodthirsty at worst. I'm with it, you've yet to awaken from your stupor of hate.

" This happened once and once only " what about Qana 1 & 2 , Cluster bomblets thrown couple of hours before war end ...etc i tell you what Chanah s you better have the balls "once only" by admitting who is the terrorist here , open your eyes & brain "once only" for GOD sake, we are in the third millenium , the global era

the family and friends of Staff Sergeant Arbel Reich, who died a hero, defending the Jewish homeland. May G-d bless his soul on this sad day for Israel. Am Yisroel Chai!! Never give in.

in Haaretz.One was about Muslims from East Jerusalem being evicted and/bedouin homes being demolished.The second report was about American jews coming to live in israel.Are you one of those and will you be living in one of the units built over Palestinians residences,and how do you feel about that,even if you are looking forward to 'going home?'

Why do you think that 36 nations Canada included need to or have a right to try preventing Taliban from taking over again? Is it because of UN mandate? It seems that you find some justification for British (let?s leave other 35 nations for now) presence in Afghanistan which does not border UK, never attacked it, never threatened it, never lobbed a single home made harmless missile into it, and never sent in a single suicide bombe rand yet thus far I did not see any understanding from your part of what Israel is going through. UK has been forcing itself and its will on other peoples for centuries on its own accord whereas Israel was forced upon Palestinians by Europeans who failed miserably to protect all there citizens equally. WWII showed that not only communists live by the slogan that everybody is equal but there are some more equal then others. As Mr. Ahmedinojad said Palestinians are paying for the sins of Europeans. I would add Israelis to what he said.

You forgot to mention that the palestinians are the root cause of this dance of death. If they continue with their absurd leadership and vile hate propaganda they will continue the march to the virgins and allah. Since you have such compassion for terroists and murderers then you are most likely rejoicing over the death of this Israeli soldier. This is definately your problem just like it is your problem that you have such bigotry in your heart. There is absolutely no reason for your hatred towards Israel except that Israel is a Jewish country. You have shown your true thoughts over and over again on this forum and people have tolerated it and have dialogued with you...I don't think you will be happy until Israel no longer exists so it appears to me that you will never be a happy person.

So what do you call the actions of Hamas, recognized and declared by the westrn world as a terrorist organization? Care givers? Stupid?

No mention of the Hamas terrorists who think they can lob qassams into Israeli population centers any time they choose with the aim of damaging property and murdering innocent people and making life a living hell for the residents of Israel within the green line. Those rocket launchers could be at home with their families right now if not with their constant and bloody attempts to kill Israelis. When the Palestinians choose to live by the sword some will die by the sword. When are the Palestinians goinf to realize that Israel is not going t roll over and play dead even if they wait a thousand years (and suffere miserably as a consenquence). Now do you understand how trite and irrelevat you sound?

I've tried to reply to many of the posters who directed comments and questions to me. The Talkback Censor has been usually busy this evening.

Taliban from taking over again? Is it because of UN mandate? It seems that you find some justification for British (let?s leave other 35 nations for now) presence in Afghanistan which does not border UK, never attacked it, never threatened it, never lobbed a single home made harmless missile into it, and never sent in a single suicide bombe rand yet thus far I did not see any understanding from your part of what Israel is going through. UK has been forcing itself and its will on other peoples for centuries on its own accord whereas Israel was forced upon Palestinians by Europeans who failed miserably to protect all there citizens equally. WWII showed that not only communists live by the slogan that everybody is equal but there are some more equal then others. As Mr. Ahmedinojad said Palestinians are paying for the sins of Europeans. I would add Israelis to what he said.

As various posters have noted the incursion into Central Gaza "to foil terrorists" with armoured bulldozers, helicopter gunships and a large contingent of troops seems to have little military value. IMO, it is part of a campaign to provoke Palestinians into a response that would justify a huge incursion and a resultant massacre. If that is the case, is the Gov't. ordering the incursions or is the IDF command structure taking matters into its own hands - if it's the latter, a military junta is directing Israeli policy. From the tone of many posters in this Talkback, that would be a welcome development.

that 1,200 civilians were killed in Lebanon last year and that 4 million clusters were dropped on civilians of which 1 million were unexploded and still kill and maim people especially children. Re: 17,000 in the first Lebanon war what does it mean to say that it is the total number of civilians killed? Re:1967 &1973 are you denying that America did not come to israel's aid? 131 Indra: are you the same person who on another thread demanded that Gaza be razed,in which case I have nothing much to say to your post.

Your name-calling neither adds nor subtracts from the discussion at hand. Do you have any contribution to make regarding the exchange of ideas here?

I do judge them for their charter and their actions. Their actions are being condemned by most parts of the world. Except the muslim part. EU, US, UN and so on all condemn hamas for their disgusting acting towards israelis and their own people.

There was a video of the Palestinian family killed on the Gaza beach, and right horrible to watch it was. Nowhere did I see any reference in anything I subsequently read to their deaths being due to mines on the beach. But no matter. This is worse... How can you possibly say that Jenin in 2002 was "Palestinian propaganda"? Jenin, or what remained of it, was filmed by British journalists among others and shown on the BBC. The Israelis wouldn't allow any UN inspectors or aid workers in for days, and what does that suggest to you, Gil? When they did gain access to the rubble left behind, one UN official said it was like a "wasteland", and it had once been people's homes. Those D9s at it again... Saying that Jenin April 2002 is Palestinian propaganda is no different from saying the Holocaust didn't happen. Both did happen and are well documented. So, Gil, don't be hypocritical here!

This guy tries peddling the old line of never mind what hamas says it isn't what they mean. The charter? fuggedaboudit, meaningless people are just trying to discredit hamas as far as he's concerned by.......telling other what hamas stands for. whew now that is a good one. Johnny pulled out some of the lesser statements in the charter, not even the inflammatory ones and this guy is bending over in all directions and contortions to doublespeak out of it. Then again for those of us who have seen what this arabist apologist has to say, there's no surprise here at all.

THE LORD LONGFORD OF ISLAM SPEAKS UP AGAIN ! ALOFS YOU HAVE TO BE JOKING " LIBERATE PALESTINE " THERE IS NO PALESTINE TO LIBERATE ! WHAT HAMAS WANTS IS TO LIQUIDATE ISRAEL! BUT BEING A MEALY MOUTHED INDIVIDUAL YOU CANNOT WRITE THE BLIND TRUTH !

You must be confusing Judaism with polytheism and ancestral worship. The Jewish religion is based on the belief that there is ONE G-d, a G-d that is invisible and transcendent and who commands us to observe the moral precepts of the ten commandments. He is Hashem, and He is Elohim Rachamim. You are a particularly ignorant person if you do not know that Judaism is monotheistic. You are obviously indifferent to suffering since those who know how to read, realize that the prayer, such as it is, was said not only for the soldier killed, but was general in nature and included all of humanity. I had all children in mind, including starving children in places like bangladesh. May Hashem bless you and change your heart.

"Sharon sued Time Magazine for libel for calling him that and won his case." Get your facts straight, Chanah S. Although the jury in the 1983 libel case concluded that Time got some of its facts wrong (it ridiculously suggested, for example, that Sharon plotted with Sheik Pierre Gemayel to avenge the murder of his son by raiding the Palestinian refugee camps at Sabra and Shatila), they found that it had not acted with malice and did not award any damages to Sharon.

Destroying them from the air, as you suggest, would also destroy many Palestinian civilians, their homes and infrastructure. "Collateral damage", that phrase so often heard from any military...this will do nothing but harm to Israel's image.

It has already "blown back in Israel's face", as you put it, in the form of disapproval of Israel's actions by many countries worldwide. This has let to boycotts and can proceed to more boycotts and denouncing of Israel. It would be a good plan for Israel to help Palestinians build their own state. Israel's image would improve so drastically in the worldview that it would be phenominal. At the moment Israel has America as its best friend, but who knows what may happen in the future? It can only help Israel to have other friends too.

"it`s the government more than the army that needs to `do something` now." - Sh I have to agree. But what do you do when the army is too influential in the security/foreign policy business? So far, since Sharon's days, the reaction to everything was on the military level. Livni has some diplomatic ideas but it seems Olmert is not listening. Question: Are you a woman? I don't know why, but from your posts I always saw you as a man.

I am sorry that both of these guys are dead, but Abu Ali has a good point...Israel can only prosper by ending the occupation of the WB and staying out of Gaza. If Israel offered the Palestinians help in creating their own new state, think how many countries worldwide would approve Israel's action just as they approved the new Palestinian state.

Your hot button words usually fall on deaf ears but I find it offensive when someone uses that word when describing death during war whether civilian or military. Your words detract from any type of message you think people might regard and respect. If anyone might have been butchered, it would be the beheadings that are videotaped.

It is hard to say. The article is less than clear. The fact that Hamas was well prepared to ambush the attacking forces might indicate that there was a 'high value' target involved. Or it might indicate a serious security breach. It might even indicate nothing more than a poorly planned and executed operation. I can speculate that the intent was either assassination or provocation. With the situation more stabile in Gaza than it has been for years, the IDF must realize that it has to cause as much disruption and chaos as possible to discredit Hamas. What ever, the mission was less than a total success, and might have been a failure. I am most disturbed by the fact that Hamas was ready for the attackers.

"Your statement that Israel killed an entire Palestinian family on the Gaza beach has been proven wrong.The family died as a result of Landmine planted on the beach by the Palestinians themselves" You are either poorly informed, Gil, or you are into straight lying. The IDF investigation SPECULATED that this beach massacre might have been caused by a buried explosve device of some sort, but this line of thought went nowhere. The plain fact is that a battle damage assessment expert at Human Rights Watch examined a piece of shrapnel that came from the abdomen of a Palestinian boy and concluded that the shrapnel was part of an Israeli artillery fuse. That's the truth. All the rest is smoke and mirrors from the Official Israel Liar, whose word you regard as gospel.

One night during a blackout, a police man stopped Chief Air Marshal Arthur Harris for speeding. "You could kill someone," the police man explained. "Young man, that is my job" was "Bomber" Harris's reply.

What do you call those IDF troops who enter sovereign Palestinian territory and kill innocent Palestinians? Do you not think of their pain and suffering at losing their loved one's? What do you call the Israeli government who is in violation of the 4th article of the Geneval Convention, binding UNSC resolutions and the ICJ rulings at the Hague? What do you call an Israeli gov't who continue to make the lives of the Palestinians a living hell? Pure and simple it's called "Terrorism"!!

People who aim to discredit Hamas rely largely on the Hamas Charter, which was written and published in 1988. The Charter is full of religious discourse, like "We must instill in the minds of Muslim generations that the Palestinian cause is a religious cause. It must be solved on this basis because Palestine contains the Islamic holy sanctuaries." However in trying to understand Hamas it would be a mistake to subsume the entire struggle under the rubric of religious doctrine. As a matter of fact the religious discourse diminished since the mid 1990's and references to the Charter are rarely made by Hamas leaders. In the literature, statements and symbols used by Hamas the notion of liberating Palestine has assumed greater importance than the general Islamic aspect. The doctrinal discourse only takes front seat in some cases where emotion overpowers calm, theoretical reflection, like after Israeli assaults on Islamic holy shrines or against worshippers engaged in prayer.

So the spokesperson just admitted this was not a necessary operation, merely to "foil terrorists". What business does the IDF have to invade Gaza whenever they like even when it's quiet? Not many people would disagree that the IDF should protect Israelis but these needless operations make you think they don't want peace at all. If you see someone in your garden outside your home with a gun, you would probably shoot them thinking they were trying to kill you. Substitute "someone with a gun" with "tanks and armoured bulldozers". No wonder the Palestinians shot back. I call it self-defense.

........but Israel are the terrorists who think they can roll into Gaza any time they choose, bulldozing homes, murdering innocent people and making life a living hell for the inmates of the world's largest prison. Arbel Reich could be home with his family right now if not for the constant and bloody incursions. When Israel chooses to live by the sword sometimes some will die by the sword. When is Israel going to realise that Palestinians are not going to roll over and play dead even if you wait a thousand years?

Car bombs and drive by shootings, extra rusty nails in explosive belts when attempting to murder teenage youths at a disco. Pretty sick. Aren't you a bit ashamed of yourself, old fool. There so many millions of Arabs, so why do they become the "weak, and most oppressed" . LOL here about the Israeli soldiers throwing the poor Arabs off a roof in Gaza? What! Those were Arabs throwing Arabs off the roof. Wow, that is sick.

..then the IDF will never be allowed to act in its best interest or the country. Not everyone who thinks Israel fights for American interests is an Anti Semite. They just dont see thats its not Israel fighting for the USA, its Israel not fighting for itself because of the USA,especially when everytime BuckTooth Rice runs over there to read the riot act every time things are going well for Israel,and suddenly the IDF is made to slink back to their bases rather then deliver the deadly blow to the enemy that they have had opportunity for so often. Stop taking money from the USA. Stop letting the United States quash your military research and production and sales to China and you might be able to stand on your own two feet. Till then you are under orders from Pennsylvania Ave wether you want to think so or not.

Are YOU speaking of soulless??? You are the first and unmatched soulless thing on these talkbacks, that's why I call you it, you are a non-person.

I`m sure that there are thugs in the Israeli hierarchy whoe dream of this. - so what, they don't rule th roost, do they? I am sure there are several British who would like to blow Isrel to smithereens too. What does this prove? I`m sure the old war criminal Ariel Sharon would have butchered the Palestinians by the hundreds. Sharon sued Time Magazine for libel for calling him that and won his case. Sharon also took Israel out of Gaza. I'm sure he would have been boiling mad to see what a cesspool the Palestinians have turned Gaza into. However, just because you surmise something, and especially as your assumptions are based on nothing more concrete that your own prejudices - this does not make it so.

I`m sure that there are thugs in the Israeli hierarchy whoe dream of this. - so what, they don't rule th roost, do they? I am sure there are several British who would like to blow Isrel to smithereens too. What does this prove? I`m sure the old war criminal Ariel Sharon would have butchered the Palestinians by the hundreds. Sharon sued Time Magazine for libel for calling him that and won his case. Sharon also took Israel out of Gaza. I'm sure he would have been boiling mad to see what a cesspool the Palestinians have turned Gaza into. However, just because you surmise something, and especially as your assumptions are based on nothing more concrete that your own prejudices - this does not make it so.

The terrorists in Gaza are the enemies of the future hopes between us and the Palestinians," Olmert said olmert' you bumbling idiot,they are enemies of peace? they are murderers,terrorists,criminal swines why do you keep on using,leftist spin on everything?are you trying to legitimize hammas too? you are single handedly going to destroy israel please,please pack your bags and leave

Hannah made again its appearance! I guess it went again to Gaza to get some lessons from Hamas how to fight zionists.

It is an effort of ALL of us.Do prepare your children to the future because our fight against the evil-HAMAS,AL FATAH -will delay.

hannah's a nom-de-plume for... AND NOOW, LADIES AND GENTLEMEN, introducing: . pali fatima.

"both in 1967 and epsecially,1973,your israeli force was close to defeat and was saved by the Americans.However, that is now all history" to mention a lie in passing and then relegate ot so casually to history - so that nobody will notice the lie. I have already refuted these lies, but you did not bother to reply and are repeating them. I'm not going to let you off so easily this time, and will persist ad infinitum until you provide me with written proof of your insiduous claims. In both wars the Arabs begged for UN intervention when they knew they'd been trashed! I dare you to prove otherwise.

"No argument about undoing the past but what about Afghanistan?" Britain currently has 461 troops in Afghanistan, as apart of the NATO force there, operating under a UN mandate. 36 nations are trying to prevent the Taliban taking over the country again. There are at least six nations with more troops there, including Canada, Turkey, France, Germany and Italy. What particular point are you trying to make, Ilya?

Oh the innocence of it! I can just imagine the tone of your voice and the astonished innocent expressionon your face as you write. How coy of you - and totaly nauseating. That poor little paraplegic was a mass murderer - unlike Leon Klinghoffer a stroke victim confined to a wheelchair who thrown into the sea with his wheelchair (much like the chappy thrown off the highrise) by Palestinian terrorists when they highlacked a cruise ship he was travelling on. Why him? BEcasue he was Jewish. The PLO Farouq Kaddumi claimed that Klinghoffer's wife had killed her husban to claim the insurance money. By the way, this attack was masterminded by none other than Abu Abbas himself.

C-Fool Your statement that Israel killed an entire Palestinian family on the Gaza beach has been proven wrong. The family died as a result of Landmine planted on the beach by the Palestinians themselves. The mines were planted on the beach as a result of Israeli commando activity at that same beach before! Sorry Israel is not to blame for that incident as much as it is sad, and it is sad! What more C-fool what other atrocities do you want to state besides saying the list goes on and on. Do you mean the massacred Palestinians in Janine in April 2002 that has been proven beyond any doubt that it is a Palestinian propaganda? Or do you refer to the accusation of Hamas on September 2005 that Israel is responsible for the killed 20 bystanders in Jabalya, when the trout was that Hamas weaponry exploded during a rally in Jabalya! These are the lies Israel has to cope with C-fool, pure propaganda, and one should ask why the misconception from the Palestinians, Why? Have you the answer?

Israel should be willing to negotiate with Hamas they are the entity which truly represents the Palestinian people. When will you Israelis understand that your illegal, immoral occupation can not be sustained forever.

"Well, at least the IDF is "doing something"..." Now that Alan Johnston is out of harm's way it seems to think it can, much more freely. Whether that something is effective or not is another question entirely. In true ME style, we only learn the hard way and when it does eventually sink in it might dawn that it's the government more than the army that needs to 'do something' now.

nd what rights would these be? The right to lob qassam rockets into Israeli cities daily?

No argument about undoing the past but what about Afghanistan? I think Dr. Watson, was not the last British invader there. As far as Iraq is concerned British were there twice in 20 century and they are there now and do not remember Iraq attacking or even threatening UK in anyway in either century. Do you have any comments on that?

Did you write a similar post to the Hamas news talkback asking them why the hell they are still lobbing qaassam rockets into Israel adaily - or is that okay with you?

Incursions into Gaza are as free as lobbing Qassam rockets into Israel. The IDF kept out of Gaza for a long time- ignoring the rockets and hoping theyd go away. They didn't. Why is that? So what is Israel to do against the qassams Abu? Any ideas?

How is it that when terorist blow up Isralis or get killed for lobbing rockets into Israel, they have football teams and streets named after them. I haven't noticed a single football team being named after a bona fide Israeli soldiers who is doing nothing but protecting the lives of Israelis. Do you realize how stupid your "honest observation" sounds. Perhaps if you looked at the onlinne Palestinian papers you would see their names and faces too. And as to your last question - sorry to disappoint.Perhaps you should figure out this one for yourself.

How can the Palestinians be defenceless when they're armed to the teeth, smuggling weapons daily and attackinng Israel with qassams and mortars daily? People who are defenceless, especially those who star wars, havd to admit at some stage that they can't go on fighting and then they need to come to the table to talk pace. This has yet to happen. All we hear is their continued guanrantees and pledges to "continue the struggle". If they are defenceless this is madness on their part. If they choose war over peace then don't complain that they are defenceless. Defenceless means having your hands tied and thrown off a highrise. Defenceless people don't commit such crimes.

"the thousands killed by israel whether it is the first Lebanon war(17,000 civilians estimated)" - doesn't this number include all the victims of the Lebanese civil war? You are intentionally providing false figures to mislead the ignorant masses.

I appreciate the concept of "one man's terrorist is another man's freedom fighter". I also know that there has been much suffering on both sides. I know Israel is the stronger military power, and the Palestinians feel that they have nothing else in their arsenal but the tactics that they use-which has proven quite effective. Bottom line-do you want peace, Clickfool, Lakshmi,& Jimmy? Would a Palestinian State based pre-1967 War borders next to Jewish Israel-all Settlements gone-Refugee problem somehow solved-suffice? Then we live in peace-no more threats, no more territory goals? Is this a fair solution-A Jewish country of Israel in the Middle East next to an independent Arab Palestine?

They are terrorists for lobbing qassams into Israel and for belonging to a terrorist organization - duh! And they have not been called Palestinianss for thousands of years (You and lakshmi should seriously consider history 101 lessons). Until 1948 Palestinians refered to anyone living in the British Mandate of PalestineJews in the region were also called Palestinians and had Palestinian passports. The PLO was formed in 1964 (before the occupation)- and today's Palestinians include Arabs who migrated from surrounding areas into the British Mandate Palestine any time up to 1946.

Taqqiyah?

Not.

What, pray tell, does your stream-of-consciousness musings regarding rape have to do with anything that I have posted, much less the topic au jour? Get with it!

Lakshmi, I do not see why you celebrate the prospect of a 'new world' brought by clubs like Hamas. Does Hamas not 'suck' just as fully as does Fatah, albeit for a different reason? Fatah is corrupt and deplorable on that account. Hamas is apparently not (at least yet) corrupt, but physically punishes Palestinians for dressing 'immodestly,' imbibing alcohol, etc. Why is a 'new world' of violent bigotry better than an 'old world' of corruption? Are they not both perfectly intolerable?

"The United Kingdome is a terrorist entity. Of this there can`t be a shadow of a doubt." Britain did some terrible things in its imperial past, but Queen Victoria has been dead for a long time and there's nothing we can do about those crimes. Israel is committing terrorist crimes RIGHT NOW, and something can be done to stop them. If Israel ends its murdering ways it will cease to be a terrorist state.

Peace up on all dead. Arabs let medown. I do think Arab Ligue should visite Israel in order to stop thewar or at least decrease violence.

you need to take your eyes of the torah and be realistic war is not a game people get killed and injured ,you seems hooked in ginseng ..i advise you few dreams pills called diazepam

"If this was the policy, you would see Arab civilian casualties in the hundreds-daily. Hundreds daily-can`t you grasp this?" I'm sure that there are thugs in the Israeli hierarchy who dream of this. I'm sure the old war criminal Ariel Sharon would have butchered the Palestinians by the hundreds. The problem is America. The sight of the IDF butchering countless helpless Palestinian civilians wouldn't go down too well on US primetime television. Even the propagandized American public might be revolted by such Israeli carnage and might realise the true nature of the Israeli State. Then where would Israel be, next time it wanted more money from its US milch cow, or a UN Security Council veto, or US military assistance. Israel can go only so far, however much it like a Final Solution of the Palestinian problem.

was close to defeat and was saved by the Americans.However, that is now all history.Forget the usual words 'terrorist' etc., since israel's hands are not lily white either. If you are a serious 'friend' of israel you would stop the name calling and encourage your protege(israel ) to come to the table and negotiate the Arab Initiative.Jordan and Egypt are coming by with the express purpose of starting up the negotiations.

business/game of the "so-called Israel" and the "Zionist intentions". You must be over 26 years of age, which is time to begin to look at the world around more realistically. Unless of course one is conflicted about one's heritage, not accepting one's own background or part of it and the way of expressing this displeasure is to be negative - in this case, negative about a whole people, the Jewish people and its state, the state of Israel. I am correct, am I not?

Clickfool, you have the nerve to chastise the IAF for dropping one bomb, on a terrorist leader? Look up "Bomber Harris," your esteemed countryman, and get back to us. Harry

I don't remember the Nazis saying that. I know they had a policy of trying to exterminate the Jews, who were doing nothing to them. If the palestinians would not try to wipe Israel of the face of the earth, as their charter calls for, then ofcourse leave them alone. But as long as they intend to follow the Nazi philosophy of trying to make the Middle East free of Jews(Christians and Others who are not muslims), then I say do the job first. If your family wanted to exterminate my family, I will exterminate you first.

thre is no need for hamas or any other liberation movement to be apologists or renounce "terror." israel uses state terrorism, are they asking repudiate their own actions? hamas/hizbollah/fatah- whatever palestinian groups you want to call are all freedom fighters IMO. terrorism is a self-defined word by the occupier. are not the civilian victims of israeli aggression subject to "terrorism"? what about israeli jet sonic booms over gaza and lebabin? are these not solely for terror purposes. israeli double standards fool no ne.

one israeli soldier down....one at a time and palestine will be liberated.

You're type can't be reasoned with. Imagine, a mentality that punishes the victim instead of the perpetrator. Girl is raped by her brothers, father or other male. Restoring the family honor requires that SHE be killed, and she is. I can cite many examples, if you wish. The rapist relative gets off scot free. The girls sin is that she was female, to be treated and used like a piece of dirt.

Palestinian who had opened fire at troops manning a West Bank checkpoint". My comment: GOOD!!!

"And since 2006 Hamas maintained an honourable truce.What did israel do? Went in to Gaza and killed a family picnicing on the beach" Truces mean ceasing terrorist activity, and neutralizing those who continue. Rockets have been fired over Israel's border since Hamas won elections. Hamas participated in Gilad's cross border kidnap. Next time leave the dogs out of this, and find some real humans to champion who actually do stop the terrorists who use Palestinian territory to make war against an armed country.

All of you who support zionist intentions and actions against the courageous Palestinian people carry a heavy responsibility. In this case, you are responsible for the inevitable price that zionism pays and will continue to pay. Your tears and prayers regarding your dead soldier are merely symptomatic of your every-day, day-in-and-day-out zionist hypocrisy. Am Hamas Hai!!

"It is necessary to instill in the minds of the Moslem generations that the Palestinian problem is a religious problem, and should be dealt with on this basis".

"There is no solution for the Palestinian question except through Jihad. Initiatives, proposals and international conferences are all a waste of time and vain endeavors".

Since you are good in statistics,figures and facts, would you please provide us (for the benefit of the genral public) how many are the number of Arab residents of Jerusalem whom Israel erased their rights to live in jerusalm in the last 7 years and how many Arab houses it demolished in the same period? If you don't provide any figure for any reason the public have the right to judge you.

They do not want peace and they have Israel's destruction in their charter.....what more do you need after the constant rocket attacks. Rather than small operations where they are going to ambush the IDF, there needs to be an open warning that the next Qassams will be retaliated with bombs. Clear out the potential human shields with dropped leaflets and then wipe out these nests of cowardly terrorists. It is better to lose more soldiers and have a goal in mind that will prevent many more Israeli deaths in the future. The only way an enemy can be made to negotiate a peace is to defeat and destroy them to the point that there is a good reason to stop the fighting....the slow wear down and bemoaning every IDF soldier's death without any victory is going to be Israel's demise in the future. G-d bless this fallen 21 year old.

recall reading reports of Hamas killing jewish babies.I do recall reading a paraplegi old man in a wheelchair coming out of a mosque being killed by two missiles from the air and the many killings i recounted in my previous post.yes,there were some suicide bombings earlier on,and precisely how many israelis killed pray ? And since 2006 Hamas maintained an honourable truce.What did israel do? Went in to Gaza and killed a family picnicing on the beach.I am afraid your case in not very strong concerning Hamas violence.In any case,why is israel not talking negotiations,even though 70 % of American Jews want it and so also many israelis,other than the settler mob?And today,how come,as somebody asked,that the IDF went into central Gaza,when the Quassams are being fired from northern Gaza & this in response to israel's rampage not only in West Bank but also killing 11 Palestinians and doing a few days ago that infamous crippling of a cameraman even when he was down.Israel's crimes are legion.

please, gaza terrorists the reason why the israelis and palestinians can't get along? israel you've had 40+ years to deal with the west bank and what do you have to show for it? the assassination of one of your greatest leaders, assassinated because you couldn't deal with the possibility of there being peace between your tribe and the other.

You, who shed no tears for the innocent murdered, only tears for when Hamas is cut down.

Please tell me why, if you are right about the surrounding Arab states, Egypt moved its embassy out of Gaza to Ramallah and Jordan and Egypt as reps of the Arab League are only talking to Abbas? And are you not an Israeli citizen as well?

Interesting. The United States, where you presumable reside, consider Hamas a terrorist organization, and the state of Jewish a friend and ally. Must be an Arab thing.

hoped that the proverbial lion would lie down beside the lamb,know conclusively that this is not going to happen.Waiting for Godot describes the israeli situation. For me personally,apart from the human aspect,namely, that Palestine will be liberated,not some day but soon,there is also the perception that the succesful emergence of Hamas in Gaza signals the start of something new.Not the old moribund world order but the new world.In that sense one feels optimistic,but ofcourse israel only understands force and Hamas knows that.I am confident they know what to do,and they are proceeding carefully and cautiously,but forcefully.The rejection of the quisling's call to parliament is the most recent example.

Could explain the impossible phenomon of the soulless serching (sic) their souls? As for the rest of your post regarding zionist 'ethics' etc., it is merely yet another symptom of the make-believe world you seem to inhabit.

You wrote: One Jewish life is more important than all the palestinians together. I remember when the Nazis said that one German life was more important than all the Jews together. Seems that you have the same mindset. Every life is important and no person's life is worth more than that of another person.

Sorry people, I know it goes against what the western media feeds us along with our corrupt political leadership....Israel practises STATE TERROR against the Palestinians. Israel talks about a two state solution...but what they mean is: Israel and a dismembered Palestine permanently dependent on Israeli markets and UN handouts. The IDF is nothing but a terror army...look how crappy the performed in a real war last summer in Lebanon....They are only good at fighting largely unarmed civillians with a few pesky militants sprinkled in.

If Israel doesn't want its soldiers killed or wounded, keep them out of Gaza. Keep them out of the West Bank. End the brutal occupation that has lasted for 40 years too long. End the destruction of homes. End the collective punishment. End the killing of Palestinians. GET OUT NOW!

I do not see how being older helped Canadians not to shoot and kill 10 years old Afghan boy riding his bike.

It was a steep price to pay but the lesson must be learned.

When the IDF start throwing people out of the 15th floor windows then you can call them terrorists. As of now I have not heard of the IDF doing anything like that. If they are doing that to their own people what would they do to the Israelie's given the chance.

I am so happy the Pals have stopped having running gun battles in the streets. It is so nice not to hear about all the kids dying. Keep Hamas and Fatah seperated and it may end.

To all the outraged warmongers. You lust for war, then you are outraged when the inevitable happens. Even the best run war against the weakest enemy is a crap shoot. Arbel Reich just lost. My condolences to his family. A few observations: 1. Hamas was ready for this attack. Why? 2. The IDF rolled on into it. Why? 3. Airpower is counter productive against urban insurgencies. Recommendations: 1. Sneaking up on people with tanks requires a deaf enemy. 2. Without Fatah in the way, Hamas is able to organize a defense. 3. Stop trying to recruit more terrorists by reckless use of airpower. Finally, do not whine about casualties when you lust for war. Casualties are inevitable. Only juveniles believe in dreams of omnipotence and invulnerability.

for the terrorists firing the rockets into Israel. The boundaries don't grant immunity to those people perpetrating acts of terror. Fellow, you can't hit me, put on eyeglasses and say I can't hit you back because you're wearing glasses. Doesn't work that way, not at all. Aircraft are an advantage, but they can't mop up, need ground forces to do that. They bombed the hell out of Berlin, Hitler remained alive until the Russians were ready to knock on his bunker doors.

Listen Ben, constant Israeli operations in Gaza and wherever the pal'n terrorists could be found is critical and will continue as long as pal's are there. The problem I can see is that they still continue to arrest them and take that trash to Israel instead of arranging their speedy meeting with alla right on the spot where they were cought. Regarding your overall take, I believe that you can't think streight, so think about your own muslim terrorists in Britain. I certainly hope that you British will pretty soon understand the Israeli dillema, and how undeservingly humaine Israeli treatment of pal's is really is. Please do not contaminate this site, we have some serious jew haters already making the habbit of spitting their venom here. Regards...

Do all newspapers in Australia carry pictures of Iraqis killed or may be they were printing pictures of East Timorese militia killed by Australians? I guess they do not and they did not because they are Australian newspapers. If you are interested in seeing Palestinian victims you should probably read a Palestinian news paper. As far as your desire to see more Israeli victims is concerned check this link and you will be satisfied: http://news.bbc.co.uk/1/hi/world/middle_east/1197051.stm

"A 21 Year Old Staff Sgt - What Kind Of Army Is This?" - chet It is a draftee army where the man could have had plenty of experience. It is a pretty good army, not what it once was, but then it isn't fighting the kind of war it once did. "If the leaders are this young, it`s no wonder that the pimple-faced teenagers that he leads are totally without judgment and you get results like the twelve year old Palestinian shepherdess being shot in the head" - chet I have seen similar results from our much more 'professional' and "older" US Army in Iraq and Afghanistan.

The area should be demolished and cleared, why is Israel sending its soldiers in harms way instead of using superior fire power. And, why is Israel supplying Gaza with rockets falling and still no Shalit??????????????????????????

The qassems have not stopped not even on the day the last Israeli left Gaza. What was the point and what was the message firing then?

Do they also have 23 year old generals? If the leaders are this young, it's no wonder that the pimple-faced teenagers that he leads are totally without judgment and you get results like the twelve year old Palestinian shepherdess being shot in the head

Stay out of gaza if you don't want to get shot at. You are members of the military, going into someone else's territory, armed and on the hunt, do you not expect to be fought back against? Just destroy them from the air and you won't have to deal with losses on your own side.

How does calling Israeli soldiers 'inexperienced kids" serve your agenda? Are you trying to equate it with the Palestinians sending their teenagers and younger to throw stoneS? How old are the majority of soldiers on active duty anywhere in the world?

I will never grow tired of saying what the IDF is doing is wrong. Half hearted attacks will get nowhere. Now a brave soldier has been killed. Israel should cut off water and electricity and bomb Gaza to smithereens. One Jewish life is more important than all the palestinians together. Until Israel has this mindset, it will never win.

"So what were they doing toolin` around Central Gaza, doin` donuts in their Merkava`s and zipping up and down the streets in their D9`s `dozers?" It's precisely becasue it's not an occupatian that the IDF has to go in and clean up the filth created by the Palestinian terorists. If the IDF were there permanently they would not be lobbing Qasams into Israel.As they insisted on turning Gaza into a giant launching pad instead of into a beautiful resort town to attract holidaymakers from around the world (and provide income for its people and city coffers), it is left to Israel to find these barstards and make their lives miserable.

a sad day, may his murderers be cursed for ever

"Foil terrorist actions?" What a pathetic excuse! Be honest for once and call it provocation. Every time the Israelis pound Bureij, killing and destroying, the Gazans retaliate by shooting Qassams at Sderot. Is this your game? Prevent the situation from calming down, so that political negotiations will remain impossible? It surely seems that way. Keep the Palestinians in disarray. Avoid peace at any cost. In the mean time continue the colonization and go on establishing "facts on the ground". Can't you see this will blow back in your face?

Would it then be proportional for Islamic Jihad to blow up the western wall?

Indeed, I have felt antisemitism here at work in Canada..and this was not very long ago (in 2006!!!). -Whiner You'd see anti-antisemitism in a synagogue. What more do you want? Our PM is the most rabidly pro-isreal that Canada has ever had. I beginning to think with certain jews that even without the "holocaust card" it would be something else to bitch and moan about. Don't wait two years, get your ass back to isreal right now. Go!

You live in Sussex, England!!! That is quite far from Israel!!You probably never even visited Israel!!! So, STAY THERE and stop giving us advice!!! We are jews, Israel is our only possible place we can live without ANTISEMITISM!! I am presently in Canada but next year we are moving back Home which is ISRAEL. I would suggest to you to go and visit even if you are not jewish it is a superb country.

Israel is a vibrant growing country. The dieing you hear is from the 60 year sadist/masochist relationship the palestinians have had with their so called "leaders"

Bully gets a bloody nose!

"An IDF spokeswoman said forces were operating in the area to "foil terrorist actions"." - Haaretz I wonder what terrorist actions they are talking about. Qassams are fired from northern Gaza, not from central Gaza. My suspicion is that the new Defense Minister has found another useless way of coping with Qassams. The old idea was to fire cannons at empty places. Will this type of intimidation work? Unlikely, but it is more costly in terms of IDF casualties. Well, at least the IDF is "doing something"...

and see how many of each other they kill every day,everywhere. You might ask yourself why.

Completely agree with you!! Our sons and daughters in Israel are too valuable!! Am Yisrael HaI!!

IDF must understand that entering Gaza is not for free anymore.THe old days are gone when Israeli forces enter and leave freely. There is a cost to this. Resistance is getting bolder and smarter. Hamas is getting stronger by the day. Stop betting on Abbas/Dahlan gang to make peace with. Deal with Hamas for a stable and peaceful middle east. Your investment in Dahlan? Abbas came went belly up.

terrorists for 60 years. When you and your brothers got done over in 1948 by a few hundred thousand Jews who did not even have an air force to start with,you wouldn't accept it,refused to negotiate and went straight to step 2,terror. Till you started your pogroms there were no Jewish soldiers. So keep fooling yourself but then turn around in a moment of lucidity and see where it has all got you. Then have a look at the official policy of your elected government and see why it is still ongoing with the next generation of your children primed for martyrdom.

Dear Cipora Amen and thank you for your support of Israel. It has been a long time since we both are e-mailing (I think since I was in America).Were are you living presently? I am now in Canada but in a year or two ( at the most) we are moving back to home:ISRAEL. Indeed, I have felt antisemitism here at work in Canada..and this was not very long ago (in 2006!!!). Have you been in Israel? Have a nice week. Lolita

Maybe I am just naive because I live so far away from the conflict. My question is "when are they ( Israelis )going to learn to stay completely out of Gaza. The IDF probably has enough fire power to level most of Gaza if ever required to do so. Heaven forbid the necessity for such loss of life. You pulled out in 2005. Let them to their own lives.I have posted here several times that the only thing to do is fire back against qassams. Fire back with pinpointedness. Enough blowing up deserted fields. In sports they say the best offence is a good defence. Fight smart . Not stupid

This way of fighting goes back to the Jenin fiasco and before. It points bitterly so at a narrow mindedness in the IDF way of operations. It seems again NOTHING was learned from battling the Hizziz in the noth inside their villages...sacreficing our sons to save their SO CALLED civilian population from harm...THIS MUST STOP! WE MUST APPLY OVERWHELMING FORCE, TO SAVE OUR SONS LIVES FROM BEING WASTED ON CLEANING GAZ'S HUMAN TRASH!!!! AND THE POLITICAL HEAD MUST MAKE THE DECISION TO DO SO!

city, for comparing our country to a lamb, for indeed, Israel IS a lamb in the way it reacts towards those gangsters set out to murder Israeli civilians inside Israel's sovereign territory.

To reassure all Israelis, how about a public statement by Hamas repudiating terrorism? Then Hamas and all Palestinians can demand from Israel to start negotiating fairly, and stop what Palestinians call Israeli brutality. You make peace with your enemies. True compromise is when both parties are upset by the result. All bets are off if there are efforts of baby maiming and Kassam launchings at a civilian population. This behavior crosses the line. Say it clearly Lakshmi-No more Kassams, no more terrorist attempts to slaughter babies. Then demand Israel to ease the roadblocks, dismantle Settlements, solve Palestinian refugee situation, etc. Hard to forget the public joy in Gaza-true joy-when Jewish babies are criplled and kiled ny terrorists.

whose table you eat? Yes, your racist attitude towards us, Jews, is bad enough. But to then come here, to this Jewish, Israeli and even Zionist news organization/site and claim that we have no right to have our own Jewish state is truly disgusting. Is this what you have learnt in church, to try to humiliate Jews anywhere, emonize them, delegitimize them so that further actions will be more acceptable....?

The only occupation goin on in Aza is Hamas terror occupation of PA land. This should be made an Arab problem. Israel unfortunately evacuated Aza which resulted in the murderers coming to power. And when they didnt have any Jews to kill they decided to start killing their constituents. WB is not occupied at all. It is disputed territory at best. There is already a predominantly palestinian Arab state - Jordan. The Pali leadership has no interest at all in nationbuilding and they will therefor not have a state.

The Haaretz talkbacks are filled with Jewish mourners mourning the real and imagined suffering of the Arabs. No Arab ever came on mourning a single Jew. Nor did you.

So how about the United Kingdome being a terrorist entity since it bombed Dresden in the end of WWII with all the sleeping civilians which were burnt a life. This is only one atrocity but there have been many others before and after. What about that entire population of the island of Tasmania enjoying a peaceful life not aiming at wiping out any other nation and then British showed up? Every one butchered by British Army. What about Iraqis and Afghans with countless wedding parties bombed by RAF? Iraq never committed any aggression against the UK and yet it was attacked by a country that calls itself civilized ever since it was committing ethnic cleansing against indigenous populations of North America and Australia. The list of British atrocities goes on and on and on. The United Kingdome is a terrorist entity. Of this there can`t be a shadow of a doubt.

Israel used to do the samething with Lebanon till Hezbullah came to existence and started to teach Israel how to behave. Now, Israel is repeating the same story with Gaza and it will continue to do so untill Islamic Jihad or Hamas or whoever come to exist. Then Israel will think hard before any dump action. History proves over and over again that a lamb has no chance of living beside a lion. So, Isreal will continue its ugly actions till everyone around becomes a lion. Then, regret will be too late!

..and you hate the IDF. So the twisted logic that binds your thinking actually should prove to your self that the IDF is not a terror organization. Or is it a racial thing, you love only Arab terror organisations? At present there are a lot of crisis going on affecting arabs and/or muslims. The one that by far costs fewest arab/muslim lifes is the one you are concentrating all you efforts on. And IDF is the only part in any of all these conflicts that tries to avoid civilian casualties. Hating Jews is indeed a brittish tradition, but there are forums more appropriate for your rantings.

Go to these places and see how they live, talk to the locals, yes I know Gaza is a warzone, and the people there have been Hijaked by the Hamas extremists, but not all Palestinians (4 million of them) seek the destruction of Israel. I can tell you many that I have personally met that don't, and they want peace but they don't know where to turn to get it, they don't trust Israel (obviously) and they don't trust their leaders (that would silence them if they caused too much of a fuss) It isn't black or white, we both have a legitimate side and story and we cannot prove it by our religion, because that would fuel more war and never amount to peace. I love Israel, the idea of a Jewish homeland for the Jewish people but I, as an economist, don't see the policies that Israel enacts, that are above the checkpoints or security wall, I don't see these added measures like uprooting trees or ruining their economy, I don't see how these add to our security, they actually threaten our peace.

Have you ever noticed how if an Israeli (soldier or civilian) is killed it merits naming and photos in Haaretz and other media, but Arabs are invariably labelled as militants/terrorists etc. and simply numbered ?. Why are the numbers killed so high on the Palestinian side, I can't recall seeing stories such as "ten IDF soldiers killed, or ten Israeli children killed ?.

from part one - What is the security threat of an olive tree? (and this gets even better...) Why would a Jew, who loves the land of Israel, uproot and destroy the very land we are meant to protect, and do it with such ferocity and destroy trees that may have been around since King David's time? Well I don't know but maybe there are "terrorists trees" and from 2000 there have been 400,000 of these beautiful trees destroyed by the IDF, and over 3,000,000 since 1967 (before any intifada). This is a purely racist and oppressive policy that serves the Palestinians no good, and also the Israeli's...we think we are teaching them a lesson but in reality it makes them more extreme, in greater poverty and therefore a more of a threat to Israel...I understand the checkpoints, and the Security Wall *well not in its current location* but the uprooting of trees? Now that is an act of terror, Go to the West Bank Mark, visit Hebron, and Ramallah and Bethlehem like I have and see really (next part)

Intruder in what????? Is gaza a country now,ruled by peacefull hamas??why don't you say anything when they fire qassam rockets trying to kill innocent civilians in Israel,or this is so normal that it is already accepted by everyone.I wander what would Canada do if some terrorist group whose only aim is to kill people like you was firing rockts in your city,and killing your relatives,or you just can't imagine it dude?

The relentless bashing into defenceless Palestine is a sure sign that Israel is scrambling to feign legitimacy. The recent admission by the governing authorities that israel could not afford exposure to the prosecution of the rape charges against their President Katsav is another sign of the weakness of israels legitimacy. At the same time the relentless bleating of israel for war against Iran has gone unheeded and soon the big brother will be forced to desert the middle east mission and Israel will drop further in its legitimacy in the Middle east. Israel's enemies have not weakened in response to 60 years of brutal intimidation by israel but rather they have steadily been reducing the imbalance of power in their region. Hear the voices of israeli's wanting to be dissassociated with zionism after 60 years of hiding behind the zionist agenda with their hands out. There are many other current examples too. Some fools just cant see the wood for the trees

1: Just because there was not a state of Palestine does it legitimate the fact that the Palestinian people don't deserve a national homeland just like the Jewish people? Our histories are intertwined, they have been living here in the land as Arab-Muslims, for 1400 years and the Christian Palestinians...well since Christ, that has to account for something and yes I'd be pretty mad as well given the circumstances. Second: This is a war, and yes Clickfool has said a statement that I may shiver to but makes sense, the Palestinian people have nothing, and they are the weaker of the two, the IDF can not even flex a muscle and make their lives a living hell (already happening) Third: IDF not terrorists? Ok, the idea of the IDF might be that but they aren't the nicest people to the Palestinians on average, these 18 , 19 and 20 year old brave soldiers who obviously have been conditioned to hate Arabs and now they "administer" them... also.. part 2

wilfully ignoring developments.Hamas has brought law and order to Gaza.The street gangs and dahlan faction thugs (financed by u.s.-israel) that created murder and mayhem in the hope of overthrowing Hamas are off the streets.Hamas has reformed the infamous security prison system set up by israel-fatah and instituted a humane one.They secured Johnston's release.They have repeatedly said that they would observe Basic Palestinian Law.And yet you repeat old tales that are not even related directly to Hamas.Are you really serious about Peace ? Is Israel serious about Peace?Or is it just stalling? Because it means giving up its illegal Occupation?

May Hashem Yinkom Damo??????? Hashem , or at least the GOD of Abraham that I am familiar with is not a GOD of vengance and blood . As long as there are people this world who attribute blood thirsty vengances to GOD , we will never have peace.