IDF kills 8 Palestinians in weekend violence in PA

Geoff: "Wouldn`t it make more sense to argue that the militants are being treated like civilians when the government attempts to arrest them and that this is a law enforcement issue?" Then the Israelis are trying to have it both ways. They claim this is "an armed conflict short of war"; it is the very heart of their justification for targetted assassination. Armed conflict means combat, Geoff, otherwise the Israeli claim is nothing but an excuse for the extra-judicial execution of criminals. If the Israelis insist this is an armed conflict then these "militants" are the people they are "combatting". What does that make them, Geoff? They are NOT civilians, as you try to argue, otherwise Israel is in the grotesgue position of claiming to be in an armed conflict with....nobody. These Pals *are* combatants under the very rules that Israel insist upon, which means the Border Police attempted to kill or capture a combatant. They must not resort to perfidy to do that.

For about 30 years, +/-, Israel has possibly had nuclear weapons. While Arab states complained about it, with the exception of Pakistan that was motivated by India, none felt compelled to aquire them -- until Iran became close to getting them. Now Saudia Arabia, Iraq, Jordan, and other nations have said that if Iran gets the bomb, they'll get one too. The point to this is: none of the Arab nations truly felt threatened by Israel. They were just posturing. But they do feel truly threatened by Iran. Now, Ballistic, you have still failed to explain your pre-occupation with and hate towards Israel. Why are you so pre-occupied and where does your hate come from?

When you are not in the depths of those moments,when you have not quaffed those fluids(and I don't mean the cup that cheers but never inebriates) you can answer this question: Why Gerard Manley Hopkins ?

It's right about here: "Terrorists sneaking into Israel and blowing up civilian buses can be addressed: The Wall" "World response: Oh, the inhumity of building walls!" Zvi, the world could not care less if Israel built a Honkin' Big Wall on its land and hid itself behind it. Fanastic! I imagine that the Palestinians would all gather on their side of that wall and chant "Higher! Higher! Build that f**ker higher!" I suspect that the Pals would think it MARVELOUS if they never had to set eyes on an Israeli soldier or an Israeli settler ever again. But that Hokin' Big Wall *ISN'T* being built on Israeli soil, is it Zvi? It's being built deep inside occupied territory, because it is not meant just to stop terrorists sneaking into ISRAEL, but to also protect settlers in illegal settlements who are attempting the most crude land-grab of territory that does NOT belong to Israel. Don't misrepresent the situation, Zvi, coz it makes you look a fool

Keeping the lid on Arab terrorists: Do-able. Protection agains anti-Israel propoganda: Difficult. Terrorists sneaking into Israel and blowing up civilian buses can be addressed: The Wall World response: Oh, the inhumity of building walls! IDF response to terrorists firing rockets atIsrael: Take out the rocket crews. World response: How can Israel expect peace if they kill Palestinians! IDF response to people who manufacture bombs: Take them out; dead or alive. World response: Oh, those Israeli brutes. Can Israel win? Depends on which war you're talking about. Harry

Hang around long enough Geoff, and you'll read posts accusing me of all that and much, much more. I put out a contrary view, and I put those views forcefully, because I believe that there is a *massive* amount of misinformation regarding Israeli practices and policies which I, personally, find both repugnant and disengenious. It is eminently reasonable that you think that a group called the "border police" should be engaged in law enforcement in the way that you and I would recognize. And you would be wrong; they operate under live-fire regulations that relate to WAR, not to law enforcement, and they claim to be engaged in an "armed conflict", which would seem to me to mean that if they go after the very people they claim to be in "combat" *against* then thet are going after "combatants". Keep that in mind, and the points I raise make a lot more sense; these border police operate under the rules of war, and those rules expressely forbid resorting to perfidy to kill the enemy.

and its horrific treatment of Palestinian minors: physical,psychological abuse, and even sexual abuse of 10 -12 year olds,placing them in the general Israeli prison population,where these abuses continue,that blogger said the following: These Palestinian children disappear into the system for years . . . If one jewish child had been so imprisoned and ill treated there would be an international explosion.

I don't know you, but, believe me, I would never think such things about you just because of the political opinions you expressed, which are coherent and reasonable, even if I don't fully agree with them. With regard to your last post, I will check the site, which is not totally unknown to me, although I think I may have seen an American-affiliated organization.

oh, wait. you dont know what that is... School is where you teach your kids to read and write. The sooner you create a school, the sooner your kids will grow up as part of an integrated society.

post 101 says everything loud and clear. its a shame, but your comments only deepen the divide

what do you base your accusations on? idf is protecting citizens from terrorists, your accusations are baseless. try again with your propaganda...

a few terrorists less, good day, sunshine

Good job done IDF, kill them before they do

No 'militias' in Israel, sure, but over the border doing their dirty work as Israeli 'undercover units'. Soldiers wear uniforms, terrorist hitsquads don't.

Don't take my word for it; after all, I'm just a leftie - pinko - antisemite - antiisraeli - hatemongering - filth peddling - lier - all-round-no good. So don't listen to me. But perhaps you might like to go here: http://www.btselem.org/Download/200505_Take_No_Prisoners_Eng.pdf and have a look at the record of the mighty IDF and the Border Police during 2005. I gather it has gotten much, much worse now.

Really, I do. But I suggest you go back through the archives of this paper, looking for "undercover border police" The stories have a strangely repetitive nature: 1) "undercover border police" stake out an area to "detain" a wanted man. 2) the wanted man almost always arrives in a vehicle, while they are on foot. 3) he almost always spots those "undercover border police" first even tho they are, you know, undercover, and he is not. 4) Instead of putting his foot down he always stops, pulls out his gun and starts shooting first even tho they are, you know, professionals, and he is not 5) The "undercover border police" then riddle him with holes without suffering any injuries even tho, you know, he started shooting first. That's how it always seems to happen, Geoff, and it seems to me there are two possible explanations; a) these guys are very lucky Keystone Cops or b) these guys never have any intention of "detaining" anyone when they set their little perfidious ambush.

You are, of course, correct, in saying that the Court approved targetted killing in a very limited set of circumstances. However, the Court also specifically said that a person should not be targetted for killing if there existed a reasonable possibility of arresting the individual and putting him on trial. The Court also required an independent investigation of the circumstances after an attack took place. It would seem to me that this is exactly what law-abiding nations would want Israel to do - attempt to arrest them and put them on trial, rather than summarily killing them. Wouldn't it make more sense to argue that the militants are being treated like civilians when the government attempts to arrest them and that this is a law enforcement issue? Of course, there could be an issue as to whether the police/ troops employed reasonable force in attempting to make the arrest, but that would be an internal as opposed to international law issue.

The sources said troops surrounded the house in the West Bank city of Jenin in which the 17-year-old, named as Bushra al-Wahish, was located, and ordered all its inhabitants to leave. Now now Israelis and pro-Israelis... how do you justify this one ey??? would you not start whining and shouting ''terrorism terrorism terrorism'' if it were one of your own?? you won't admit that your military practices terrorism simply because it is a state-funded armed group.. the IDF is a terror organisation serving a so-called civilised state... your ''zionist God'' I don't think will forgive the perpetrators and those who condone such TERRORISM!!!

for the clarification that the transliteration was in Israeli Hebrew. It is a relief, because I thought that, as a would-be linguist (remember Foucault??), you had unearthed another national language used by israelis in israel. I am also relieved you didn't use swear words. So, what did it ask, this 'israeli hebrew'? It was a question wasn't it? PS I DID like the poem you penned for me, altho I have the feeling I've heard it before somewhere. Was that an original piece, or were you quoting from a collection? Frost? Donne? Gerard Manley Hopkins perhaps? u tease, u!!! The second time tho, it became a little repetitious. But I suppose that is the price one must pay when being the recipient of such finely crafted verse. It is, verily, a gift unto the generations. And so we are doomed to repeat it again and again and again :) A truly malleable verse, fast-moving into petrification.

Israeli forces have now killed 9 Palestinians in a day and a half Sunday, 22 April 2007 In addition to killing six Palestinians in Jenin and Gaza yesterday, including a 17 year old girl, and two this morning in Nablus, Israeli forces have killed a 16 year old boy in western Ramallah on Sunday afternoon. Israeli forces shot and killed 16 year old Karim Zahran of 'Abud Village in western Ramallah under the pretext he intended to throw a bottle, earlier claimed to be incendiary. Earlier today Israeli forces invaded the outskirts of the Old City of Nablus and killed two people. Amin Labadeh and Fadel Nur were members of the Fateh-linked armed resistance wing, Al Aqsa Brigades.

Geoff: "As to the nature of the police force employed, we have a law in the United States called the "Posse Comitatus Act of 1878", which prohibits the use of military forces for purposes of law enforcement. However, I do not believe that is a requirement of international law and that many nations do use their military forces in that way." Australia also prohibits the use of military for law enforcement. Many other countries do not, and gendarmie are common in Europe. But the Border Police are police only in name. They are recruited from the IDF, they are combat trained, and they can and do fight alongside regular IDF forces. Consider them like your own US Military Police enforcing military law, and further consider that they operate INSIDE occupied territory, and you'll get a better picture of what they are. They aren't police in the way that you or I would recognize it; they are soldiers with a badge.

Geoff: "It seems to me that the question that needs to be asked is not whether Israel is conducting military operations in the West Bank, but whether the militants whom they attempted to arrest were entitled to combattant status." You're wrong; the entire legal rationale Israel has argued before the Israel High Court of Justice is that these actions are NOT law enforcement, but part of "an armed conflict" (which if you read the UN Charter, means a war). Israel wants to employ deadly force, but it does NOT want to be held back by the 4th Geneva Convention, so it makes up the claim about "an armed conflict short of war" - an oxymoron. The border police acts under rules of engagement that are NOT those of law enforcement, but of warfare, and Israel does not even attempt to pretend otherwise; not since it had to argue the right to "targetted assassination". That ruling makes these militants "combatants", otherwise Israel can't "legally" assassinate them, can they?

"You are a base person" Couldn't agree with you more, Connie. Put it down to my low Northern working class origins.

"I dont know if you are joking or not about being in jail" That would be our friend "Sussex", who was writting (sic) to me from jail, poor man. He's a Jewish chap who was falsely convicted by a jury of anti-semites, apparently. I did offer to come and visit him.

Say, you noticed that oversight on the zionists' part too, eh? Well, you are right and it is the same old refrain from them when it comes to killing the Pals, yup it is. This will be ending soon with God's help. Regards. Keep blogging.

I really hope that you are right. I have no doubt that lessons have been learned, yet there can always be surprises. I have heard reports about certain ewproblems. We are not facing just the pals, but the others from the east, including their weaponry and technology. Well, Israel has to be ready for all possibilities and prepare some of her own surprises. Even Egypt is getting really fed up with Hamas. As for the attacks on me, I am used to them. I am gratified that my ideas regarding the solution to the refugee issue is having some traction. Often the obvious must be pointed out and advocated in a way that it will be noticed by those that count. Regards, and shalom, Cipora

on the issues in the region over there where our troops are presently losing. Do you know of any other messes in the world where one party has nukes, doesn't want the neighbors to have any and threatens to wipe everybody out over there? If you do, let me know and I will focus, with lots of other people, on that. Iraq is enough. What has hate to do with it? Don't mix hate up with common sense mired in myths and religion. I don't hate anybody, but colonialism in Pal land is a no-no!! Are you suggesting zionists should just gently wipe out the Pals and the world should not blink simply because colonialism has taken place in the past. I apologize if you equate concern for the indigenous folks there, even at this late date, as hate for the oppressors, simply a difference of opinion I guess. Regards.

is the occupation in the face of objection by Arabs, and where we have our troops, and where we are presently losing, and where Bush needs and asks Arabs for help and where the occupation is now an issue. Focus on that and your opinion may change. As far as the rest of the people in the world, I rest my case on the BBC poll. How many supporters do you think zionists have for their madness??? If the BBC and Fox polls are correct, very few. Regards.

(of the mental nature) as "Dutch" has. Only "martha" refers Kant to justify her views.

I doubt very much Tosefta is Jewish. Why would a Jew be a cheerleader for Hamas and Hezballah? Possibly, he's a very sick Jew seeking attention; there are a few sick Jewish minds around. More likely, Tosefta works for the enemy camp as a propagandist. How much does the Fatah office pay these days, Tosefta the Arabooshi?

You really gotta be looking at life through rose colored glasses to think that any sort of peaceful settlement is possible for the next 50 years. The only question is how many are killed on each side, and how to keep those numbers as low as possible.

you would think that there have been 8 jewish casualties. Newsflash!!! It were palestinians. Someone actually suggested that by killing 8 200 jewish lives were saved. Well that's ok than isn't it? Pathetic really no matter how many palestinians are killed, jewish right-wingers claim the victim-role justifying just about everything their trigger happy army does

Read Dennis Ross' book 'The Missing Peace'. It clearly clearly the mis-statements and fabrications of the Palestinians (Arafat) in their negotiations with Barak. In the first few pages of the book you can find a map that Arafat presented as that offered by Israel and that he rejected. Next to this is a map of the actual offer made by Israel. Arafat was a pathological liar. And why shouldn't he have been? No matter what nonsense he spewed there were always morons who believed him. The picture of this embarassment to humanity is still displayed all over Palestine.

Do you remmber the wives children elderly left behind.They became human shields. it meant nothing to Hezbella to leave ammunition among civilian population. Be thankful that the Israeli military are not believers in the death culture, If they didnt love life, more civilians would have been killed.

Barak offered a pretty good deal, even according to Clinton. The problem was: 1. No counter-offer from Arafat; 2. Arafat started the Intifada. The rest is History.

The jury is still out on your coherence as a thinker.Thanks

You are fighting many tough battles these days against the wicked and foolish,you are doing well as usual!I think the IDF learned its lesson, as often happens it takes a negative experiance to make a shack up for the better.Gabi Ashkenazi wasted no time, and the fool Nasrallah only made the IDF better.It is clear their will a showdown and I know the IDF will stun them with their powers.Regards "Hamouda" Danite

M: "Settlements have not expanded for quite a while." Riiiight. And you really believe this, do you? M: "And their existence does not contravene 242" Res 242 does not mention them because, of course, they did not exist when 242 was being debated in the UNSC. It does mention that you can not acquire territory by war, and it does mention that the land seized by Israel in 1967 is occupied. That triggers the 4th GC, and that triggers Article 49, and that makes the settlements illegal. M: "nor the Peace Agreement with Egypt." No, because that is a bilateral treaty between Israel and Egypt. M: "Even wrt to Geneva conventions the legal waters are muddy" No, they are not. Article 2 triggered the 4th GC in 1967. Article 6 ensures that Article 49 continues to apply for as long as there is belligerent occupation, and Article 49 makes these settlements illegal. Clear as a bell, and anyone reading the 4th GC in any sort of good faith would understand that.

retreat,knowing you were entering an area you did not really know.My advice remains the same: read Kant,it doesn't matter even it is a few lines per day.That will clear the cobwebs from your brain and more importantly it might help your moral perception. And it might,might, just help in keeping you from bashing defenceless Palestinians.

Dear Michigan, Even though Barak was serious about peace, he never offered a particularly good deal to the Palestinians. The Key to peace is economic viability. Israel has never been willing to give up control of the water in the West Bank and there are other factors. Read the DeJong article here: http://www.ifamericansknew.org/cur_sit/e1.html Peace. Steve

It seems to me that the question that needs to be asked is not whether Israel is conducting military operations in the West Bank, but whether the militants whom they attempted to arrest were entitled to combattant status. My understanding form the article and from the way terms such as "militants" are commonly used is that these individuals were civilians who had taking a direct part in hostilities, and so were not entitled to combattant status. As such they may be treated as criminals and arrested and tried for their crimes. It seems to me that an attempt to arrest criminals is by definition "law enforcement". As to the nature of the police force employed, we have a law in the United States called the "Posse Comitatus Act of 1878", which prohibits the use of military forces for purposes of law enforcement. However, I do not believe that is a requirement of international law and that many nations do use their military forces in that way.

"Just for fun, u COULD be jewish; i mean you have answered a question with a question!!... But we now know you`re not. . . There is growing consesnus that u r not israeli. . . I put expanations for u as there is a feeling that u don`t know hebrew either." - Star of David "OK, I am a fraud, neither Jewish nor Israeli. And you have a great sense of logic; nothing less than Sherlock Holmes. Achshav ata yachol laredet mimeni, mar timtumi?" - Tosefta "Your transliteration at the end of your last post to me (#421) wasn`t some swear words in Aramaic or anything was it? None of my friends know Aramaic. I get very nervous when people swear at me in Aramaic." - Star of David Well, I don`t swear. And the message is in Israeli Hebrew. But don`t lose hope; I might still be an Israeli Arab. Incidentally, what was your clue about my Hebrew/Aramaic? Twinkle, twinkle, little star, I don`t wonder what you are. All around the web you fly, Like a feather in the sky. Twinkle, twinkle, little star, I don`t wonder what you are!

1.2 billion Muslims in the world. WOW!!! Must have read something about it, finally!! So, what about the other 4.3 billion who just don't agree with Islam's radical theories?

Whats the big deal?

Danite shalom, I am afraid that you are right about the comming war. It is depressing, but really unavoidable. I hope that you are right about gabi ashk. Take care, motek, Cipora

It's getting very difficult to keep up with all the nouns and adjectives that describe thi ongoing situation. Situation is another good descriptive word.

That is exactly correct, but it does not come from Kant.

The countries that you mention have not been at it as long as Israel.Qualitatively too, their violations are not as pernicious as Israel's. Israel will not forever be able to hide from its crimes,regardless of the UN Human Rights Council. Ask anyone who is not a Zionist or a supporter of Israel and Israel is right up there on th list as currently the most hated country in the world. As some blogger on this site put it:" we don't have to criticise Israel.Its actions speak for themselves." Isn't it one of your own prophets who said: " Zion shall be redeemed through justice,and her returning ones by doing what is right." -Isaiah 1:27 Pray for that to happen.

No, I do not advocate colonialism. But people like you and Martha ignore what your own countries have done and CONTINUE to do to their indigenous populations and you ignore everything else happening around the world and focus all of your hate and energy on Israel. I've read your posts over the past year or so, and each one has been full of hate and anger. You're not Jewish, you're not Muslim, you're not Palestinian or Israeli, so why are you reading Ha'aretz and posting angry, hateful messages? Don't you have something better and more positive to do with your life?

There were no massacres, just like the killing of these were not a massacre. DRAMA and PR doesn't make for truth.

The lives of many in the hands of the few. Seems a lot unfair doesn't it?

There is a fake Clickfool going around.You'll recognise the fake when you read it.The real Clickfool knows his politics,especially the Palestine situation.

Many of us do feel guilty about Iraq and Afghanistan, as well as Kosovo. Those who don't have been misled by our US-friendly authorities. It's also a fact that many Israelis feel guilty about what their government is doing in their name.

Read Kant's Perpetual Peace before any of his other works.Given your limited intelligence and non existent moral perception it's doubtful if you even read even single line of that great philosopher. Take out your Kant works and start reading.Stop bashing the defenceless Palestinians.

He was answered with an Intifada by Arafat. And his total retreat from Lebanon resulted in last summer's war. Settlements have not expanded for quite a while. And their existence does not contravene 242, nor the Peace Agreement with Egypt. Even wrt to Geneva conventions the legal waters are muddy. Best Regards

Listen Fox, As I told you in the past, I see no point in dealing with nonthinkers, people who don`t know about causes, effects, or what come first, or people who believe that Rabin was killed because of suicide bombers. Don`t you get it? We operate on entirely different levels. Better go hunting for some chicken, and be happy. "It is an ill thing to knock against a deaf, an imbecile, or a minor. He that harms them is culpable, but if they harm him they are not culpable." - Talmud

Actually truth be known, I am Jewish. Been that way since 1988. I disagree with most of what israel does, but I do belive they are in the right more often than I let on to here. I do this as a hobby, and because my day job is not very interesting. This gets me the attention I deserve.

"...it is best for Olmert to show that terror is still going on" This of course is able to be backed up by independent investigation, is it not? Or is this just a further example of your malleable texts where complete subjectivity passes for considered comment? You write too much. and it's always u in the centre of your writing (I predicted then... )....

Inciters are having fun. Of course, the Jews are magic!!

The world is getting tired of the constant conflict. We have paid attention for sixty years. Time to move on and settle this. And not by Pal deaths or Israeli deaths.

LMAO!! And the "crimes against humanity" that Israel has been charged with are voted on the the UN Human Rights Council. Member Nations of that council have 22 times censored Israel. But, when you have countries such as Iran, Sudan, Oman, Zimbabwe, Venezuela, Egypt, China, Indonesia etc;, sitting on that Council made up of 2/3 countries who are actually committing horrendous crimes against humanity. It is truly a laughable and pathetic situation. This is why Annan and Moon have both suggested reform of that Council. Where member nations would have to meet certain criteria to sit the Human Rights Council. (UNWatch.org)

No joke. Give each refugee compensation or a plot of land a house and a car, and each one's child a free education, the older ones free medical care. Preferential hiring for a job for every Israeli Arab and every Palistinian in the occupied lands. That would be a good start, plus the right to vote for those in the territories. You have a lot of wounds to heal.

The operative word in Carlos' post is "used to" belong. The Mexicans are not threatening nukes nor do they have a 1.2+ billion constitutency advocating their cause. Big difference. Regards.

However, the world is looking and seeing the predictable reaction to peace talks. The zionists will attempt to stir up the homies! Sad defense really. Regards.

Another cry for help by a demented individual. I have a solution: Go to you nearest library, take out a good book from the Middle East collection and read it. Do it for the next 5 years - one book every month - and report back to the Haaretz chat rooms. You would soon be a Zionist.

What atrocity are you referring to? Is it the internationally accepted right of self-defense that you would deny to the Jews and their supporters? The only criminal act I've seen the last few minutes is your #73 nonsense.

#6 is a bit confused. Well, we'll fix this problem.In general,many Muslims in the Middle East have a strained relationship with their Jews,as well as those of other countries,particularly Israel.Since the War of Independence(1948-1949), Israel has had the priviledge of being in the gunsights of Egypt, Jordan, Lebanon, Syria,Iraq, Saudi Arabia,and to a limited extent by Libya,Algeria,Tunesia.and Morocco.They live in a very rough neighborhood.The Israelis have not been innocent, since they have violated the sacred tenet that Jews and their frequent supporters as Israeli citizens - Christians,Druze and others - should not exist as an independent state for the Jews would rule over Muslims. The Israelis have not been entirely innocent in their efforts to survive, but survival trumps everything else, since the Jewish state is legal under international law.

With the involvement of iran in Gaza(which can only happen with hamas approval) and the re-arming of Hizbollah and the upgrading of the Surian army, we are in no doubt for summer action with the MUftis gangs.This will allow Hamas to continue playing the "moderate" and allow for Toseftafool to keep working for them, while contracting out the war to islamic jihad and other lowlifes.But I am not too worried as "a new judge has arisen in Israel" namely Ashkenazi who has worked very hard to get ready for this.Of course the arab ego delerium trip of their supposed victory last summer blinds them to what is waiting for them.I hope Israel will take this opportunity to really smash them up hard.But they should travel light on taking prisoners, they arent worth the trouble.G-d Bless the IDF!!

Zardos: "everyone`s doing it and no one is policing the regulations you speak of so in `fact` they are unenforceable" Absolute rubbish. Nothing can be done about Israel breaking the rules of war while it remains in the acsendency. As is always the way when you are winning. Makes a big difference when you loose tho', Zardos. The history of nations is filled with countries who thought they could Do As They Wanted, because the rules Do Not Apply To Us. Some get away with it, as is the case with any crime. Many do not. The "enforcement" comes from knowing what happens if you loose. Israel better not loose, coz it has engaged in a lot of practices that would not look good in a courtroom in the Hague. Other countries do NOT tell their soldiers to dress as civilians in order to ambush their opponents. THAT is prohibited - for VERY sound reasons - and you have to look hard to find any other countries who do this; it is not a case that "everyone's doing it".

Ho-hum, just another "rabbit shoot" for the brave boys of the Israeli Occupation Forces. "How can we tell they'rerrorists, Ehud?" "It's easy. You can tell when you turn them over."

Geoff: "They do not apply to police officers attempting to arrest criminals, as was the case in the article." No, it was not. These border police are a gendarmie i.e. soldiers who engage in policing. They are not law enforcement officers. They are also not indulging in "law enforcement". Israel has insisted in front of the Israel High Court of Justice that it is engaging in "an armed conflict short of war" in the Gaza Strip and the West Bank i.e. it is explicitely saying that its actions go BEYOND law enforcement as, indeed, these actions do. That brings the Border Police within the Rules of War, and that means a prohibition on perfidy. Israel wants to simply make up its own rules as, indeed, does Zardos, and the rules it has made up are illegal under Intl Law.

is that Clickfool is a POM and the definition thereof, that Israel is a terrorist state because it has chosen to defend itself against attacks and that the misery of the world in general lies squarely at the feet of the Jews who own the media, the money and the brains of non-Jews.

the Koran-verse (9:11)- For it is written that a son of Arabia would awaken a fearsome Eagle. The wrath of the Eagle would be felt throughout the lands of Allah and lo, while some of the people tremble in despair still more rejoiced; for the wath of the Eagle cleansed the lands of Allah; AND THERE WAS PEACE. Please send your comments, I am curious how you think now! (Note the verse number!)Hmmmmmmmm and our Ntl. Symbol

"No I dont think so as every time there has been the slightest inkling of peace the Government of the day sets about the usual myth, "No peace partner". And no Israel would and has not stopped as the Illegal Settlements continue unabated in contravention of agreements all the way back to the peace agreements with Eygpt (Israel promised to leave the territories)not to mention res 242 and the 4th Geneva conventios etc. Regards

Why do I have no right to judge Arab culture. When Arabs, certainly not all, but a great number, elect and support Islamist war mongers who fly planes into buildings in MY COUNTRY and set off bombs in markets and clubs, I have every right to criticize. When I see throngs of people supporting "martyring" suicide bombers, I have every right to criticize. I would never say that Iraqi's have no right to criticize Americans for Bush's abhorrent treatment of Iraq. And just so you know, I am not religious, I could care less what religion people practice, I criticize Arabs when there religion affects me and oppresses people within their own culture, because they value killing Jews more than their own economy, education respect around the world. And another thing, I would be careful to call standing around and watching 6 million jews get murdered in Europe "pathetic guilt." There is an abundance of Arab/Muslim land surrounding Israel, what is the problem with a sliver of a Jewish state.

Please consider WHY rockets are launched into Israel.Why would anybody do such a thing? Palestinians are not a different species of mankind. They are born with the same feelings and emotions as you, I, and everybody else on this planet. But as Palestinians, all their life they have only known the oppressive military occupation of their homeland by Israel. They have relatives languishing in Israeli prisons for unspecified and unproven charges. They know of children shot by Israeli snipers for throwing stones at tanks. Their life is without hope, their children face only more of the same. For these reasons, they are angry, bitterly angry. So in retaliation, they launch rockets into Israel. As any other oppressed people would do, they are resisting the seizure of their land, the brutal treatment of their lives, and the destruction of their dignity. Do you not understand this? Stop the occupation and the rockets will stop. It's that simple, Elisabeth!

About time IDF showed that it is capable of getting rid of the vermine. You can't deal with crooks, goons, thieves, homo sapiens unable to behave like human beings. These rotten apples know only one thing: they can't oppose real machos. Good job IDF. Keep the vise tight. The results will be these murderers of babies will be pleading for their lives on their knees.

It is far less obvious that Israel wants to scuttle the Peace talks. They have to protect their population from bomb makers and suicide bombers. And they did find the bombs and their makers. For 7 years now those attacks and attempted attacks have not stopped. If Islamic Jihad, Al-Akza Martyrs and the other Iranian paid groups declared tomorrow that they stopped the bombing and rocket shelling, don't you believe that Israel would stop its preventive measures?

As you can see, mate, response to your appeal has been a touch less than overwhelming. Did you perchance say my post to you was baleful? "Whoever told you you were a clever boy (your mum?) deserves shooting." (Clickfool#144) I've long maintained that the english bovver boy reaction of resorting to violence when things don't go their way was alive and well. You maintain i am a Zionist. Hmmmm. You also maintain people connected to me (as a zionist presumably) need shooting. Remind you of the jerry rhetoric circa 1937??? Or the racial hatred of 'multicultural' England circa 2007? Your true colours are now, finally, showing. And your utter helplessness. PS Your appeal to the readership of Ha'aretz was heart rending. A racist anti-semitic pom asking for the jewish sympathy vote in an Israeli newspaper!!!.. You've made my day :) Or should that be ;

Well as a bystander, and self=appointed judge in the great Tossi-fetta vs Jeff Northridge debates, I must call jeff the victor. Why? Tossi wrote, ..."the Quartet said it would review the siege on the PA in a couple of months,...". That's it folks, Tossi has discarded the occupation claim and now calling it a seige. Good to see that Jeff strong stand against lunacy has paid off. As for the rest of Tossi's rambling babble, nonsense and pitiful. A Hamas groupie to the end, that Tosefta.

palestinians as suicide bombers?...why not themselves and their own families...nasrallah and the iranian president for example.

Stay out of those coffeehouses with all that Marijauna, you screwing up your brains, like Bob stated I presume the dutch have a terrorist Airforce dont you think so? Poor Serbs what have they ever done to you?

I'm certain that the result in Qassam attacks by the Palestinians is less than the IDF had hoped for, but their continuing provocations will bring about the anticipated result sooner or later. After all, there is still a fair bit of time until the peace talks and their sabotage plan doesn't have to be accomplished overnight.

WHAT KIND OF JOKE IS THIS IMPLEMENT AFFIRMATIVE ACTION TO HELP THE PALESTINIANS???THEY DONT WANT ANYTHING TO DO WITH ISRAEL AND BESIDES BEFORE THIS STUPID INTAFADA THEY WORKED IN ISRAEL NORMALLY WITHOUT A HASSLE AND NOW THEY DECIDED ON ALL THIS CARNAGE. I THINK THESE PEOPLE NEED TO PRIORITIZE NOT TERRORISE!!!

This is my third attempt to try and answer the vulgarity that was posted about me by Clickfool. It seems that Haaretz has lost all crediabilty when censoring some of these posts. Is it fair to print virulently anti Israel posts,some of which are immoral and vulgar and not alright to print the response to them....so I will try again...Clickfool you are vulgar and you are a hater. The combination is most distasteful. You are a base person (a person of low value and inferior quality) and it is not surprising that you have joined forces with the islamo/fascists. You fit right in.

She tells us to move to our own territory. I ask how? Land property monry taken from Europen Jews . When they returned to home after camps they werre killed. ARab countries told, not ask their Jewish population to leave, THey like the Europrn Jews had to leave property , money business.Now can these Jews return to Arab countries that their families had lived in for generations?/ What territory are you talking about.

I dont know if you are joking or not about being in jail. If so pleae answer. Did you get converted in jail. You see the Muslimp opulation has increased because of the comversions. Islam will have an army of killers , rapists and other that are using the prisons as home.

Two Arabs are sitting in a Gaza bar chatting over a pint of fermented goat's milk. One pulls his wallet out and starts flipping through pictures and they start reminiscing. "This is my oldest son, he's a martyr." "You must be so proud" says the other. "This is my second son. He is a martyr also." "A fine looking young man", replies his friend. After a pause and a deep sigh, the second Arab says wistfully, "They blow up fast, don't they?"

Wonder how those people would feel seeing the World Trade Center come down. Wonder how they would feel if cribbled family member throw over board? Wonder how these people would feel about the thugs if it was their child on bus blown up Wonder how these would feel if their child killed in Bali bombing. What have they got to say about thugs that cut off Danny Pearl head???

The Right to Life Law. I'll remember that. Can I recount a true short story told to me by a cousin from the strip? Two Arabs were sitting in a Gaza Strip bar chatting over a pint of fermented goat's milk. One pulls his wallet out and starts flipping through pictures and they start reminiscing. "This is my oldest son, he's a martyr." "You must be so proud" says the other. "This is my second son. He is a martyr also." "A fine looking young man", replies his friend. After a pause and a deep sigh, the second Arab says wistfully, "They blow up fast, don't they?" Poignant isn't it? ;)

"Such incident gives Israel the right to declare war on Gaza, conquer it and annex it?." 1. Would you please provide relevant sources or links for legal backup for your assertions re Annexing land gained by force.By the way "In self defence "does not justify it so try something else. Israel has already declared war on Gaza and does it every time somebody dares to mention the five letter word?.

A ceasefire is what the Hamas led PA wants. Why? Because they need $$ to lift the economic siege, to consolidate power, and to build up military capability with Iran's help. Why should Israel oblige these terrorist criminals? Sorry, we are not fryerim.

Robber A STEALS $500,000 and robber B steals $550,000 Robber A presents this as his/her defence. Does not work though.Cause it is a fair judge who demands "Proportionate" punishment for both Regards

Hello there MOE, I feel you are right that what some people are beginning to call the IDF and IAF, the butchers of Zion in the Middle East as people like myself are horrified by their call to surgical violence as Mark Regev pointed out above. They are the last people on earth who should be getting another shipment of arms from the US. It will cause great unrest among already outraged Americans. Who can forget the way they butchered 666 Palestinians last summer in Gaza in violation of their right to life law (see below); and over 5,000 Palestinians during the last 5 years? Over half the victims were civilians & many were mere children. In addition, to the over 1,100 innocent Lebanese they slaughter- ed last summer with their 21st air power. St. Augustine said all human wrongs are evil in a way but what makes that evil distinct- ion is the magnitude of their impact upon a group of people. Not to mention their destruction of the Lebanese capital and its beautiful countryside. I feel I am still traumatized from see- ing the photo destruction in our local and national newspapers. I imagine, it will be a cold day in hell before anyone stands for Israel again, except of course for its apologists. And to think I wanted to help them build the Kibbutz but my family had to remind me we weren't Jewish & didn't need to build a homeland. Yet I foresee their own deadly march of force will end in their own. As it often said those who live by the sword will die by it too. Hence six million cluster bombs aren't going to keep them safe and neither will all their stockpiling of nuclear wars heads. As the former Secretary of State Madeline Albright pointed out in her books, national security can never come from the military alone. She said a country's real strengths lies in its relationships with others and especially in its alliances. And that's where their focus and energies should be--not in deadly force against the Palestinians and the Arabs in the region. What a dead end that is. Thanks, Dutch P.S. Please read the Right to Life Law; According to the International Human Right to Life Law, article 6 : "Every human being has an inherent right to life. This will be protected by law. No one shall arbitrarily deprived of his right to life " The comment made in the General Comment 14 of the UN Rights Commission explains the importance of this right and it emphasizes that no derogation is not per- mitted either: "...the right to life enunciated in the first paragraph of article 6 of the international Covenant on Civil and Political Rights is the supreme right from which no derogation is permitted even in times of public emergency." Thus even during a public emergency the Israeli Army has no legal right to kill Palestinians or to take preemptive action against Palestinians --that would endanger their life under the Right to Life Law. Dutch

Is it since colonialism has taken place around the world in the past, that the world should now sit silently while zionists try to pull it off yet again in the 21st century against a Pal population with a constituency of 1.2+ billion folks? No, that couldn't be what you are arguing cause if it is, it is foolishness! Regards.

here is the math 8 palestinians killed each one with an explosive suicide belt = 25 dead israelis 8X25 = 200 innocent dead people, not to mention the hundreds maimed and injured. IDF just saved 200 lives. keep up the good work.

I don't presume the Geneva Conventions to be Utopian in their entirety. More specifically that "Rule 65. Killing, injuring or capturing an adversary by resort to perfidy is prohibited" is Utopian. The idealistic nature of the Geneva conventions are somewhat self evident judging by the 'almost' complete lack of enforcement in so many regions and instances. As ever, no one takes China,Soviet Union or the USA to task for their breaches of these regulations in the past and present, nor has any state or International body done likewise to Israel. If they are not Utopian, they are at least highly selective,subjective and thus ambiguous. (easier to say Utopian!)

I hardly meant to suggest that the Geneva Conventions are "Utopian" and do not need to be followed, just that the specific rule cited by Johnboy was inapplicable to the story in this article. In fact, the United States Army has stated unequivocably that it does expect soldiers to follow the Geneva Conventions and that it will punish anyone who doesn't. Ditto for the U.S. Supreme Court and for Congress. From my relatively brief exposure to decisions of the Israel Supreme Court, I believe that Israel also expects its soldiers to adhere to the Conventions.

OBVIOUSLY these 8 Palestinians were killed by undercover Hamas men. Who in the entire region gains most from a new flareup if not HAMAS who have gone far too long wothout satisfying their bloodlust and are unable to offer ANYTHING to their own people besides suffering. How can they possibly find favour in Allah's eyes if they aren't spilling the blood of Zionist Infidel's? Their Idolatrous ideology calls for human sacrifice and they are eager to please.

You talk about Islamic Jihad's agreement to temporarily stop firing rockets at Israel like its some great peace gesture. Do you realize that the launching of rockets into a country's sovereign territory is an act of war, and even one such incident gives Israel the right to declare war on Gaza, conquer it, and annex it? Over the past two years there have been more than THREE THOUSAND rocket attacks from Gaza into Israel! Far more, I think than than there have been operations by the IDF in the territories, so it superfluous to even mention that the IDF operations were aimed at militants and the rocket atacks were aimed at civilians.

It's just so boring. Israel knows that when it pulls a stunt like this 100% of the time the Palestinians respond. I can't imagine they wouldn't. I would. I bet you would too. Name anyone who would just lie down and take it. Olmert knew he was provoking a response when he ordered the attack and this comes after talking to Abbas about a ceasefire. Why did Olmert do it? What political advantage does he hope to gain? With whom is he trying to curry favour? How can this possibly bring Israel peace and security? All so predictable and horrible.

You don't bring a knife to a gunfight. Meaning, everyone's doing it and no one is policing the regulations you speak of so in 'fact' they are unenforceable, though in theory not. Probably for the simple reason that in concept they are Utopian. ;)

"the attack (on Sderot) was to avenge the deaths of the three militants killed earlier in the West Bank." - Fatah, PRC, IJ "This is dangerous aggression and it will lead to instability at a time when the Palestinian Authority is making great efforts to maintain a truce." - Abbas' aide A few days ago Abbas was able to convince Islamic Jihad to stop Qassam attacks for 3 weeks, a conditio. They used to fire rockets in response to hunting operations of IDF in the West Bank. I predicted then that Israel will carry out a big attack in the West Bank in order to keep the fire by IJ from Gaza going. (note that Hamas is still in a cease fire so there is no big firing from Gaza and no big danger.) Olmert resists peace moves and resists negotiating peace with Abbas, which is now possible. The best way to discredit Abbas is to show that he is impotent. And since the Quartet said it would review the siege on the PA in a couple of months, it is best for Olmert to show that terror is still going on

Hey Ben, tired today so brain is slow. Having read your poster with my head on I can tell you exactly why you were denied entry -the Pal Red Cresc. Their reputation in Israel is all that you would expect it to be considering. Your work is hard for Israeli's to understand, for all the reasons I and you can comprehend. A suicide bombing is about as ghastly as anything you can imagine. I do not see your views as anti Israeli. Humanitarian approaches are never clear and I have seen this in many many countries. Hoping you will spend time in Israel and see a diiferent side! Hwyl am nawr! Nerys

Shalom Ben, Prynhawn da! Ti?n siarad Cymraeg yn dda iawn! Perfeth............Bravo i ti! I am familiar with the treatment at BG. It?s very frustrating and I am not always able to equate what they ask or what they do with security matters. I am surprised they expelled you. Did you have any Israeli contacts whom you could call upon? I was over in Shechem (Nablus) a few weeks back. I?m a researcher based in Rishon Le Zion. Dim Cymraeg yma! It always makes me sigh when people have an unpleasant stay in Israel or like a lot of people on this page speak without experience. Ti'n dod yn ol? When do you return?

I'm afraid we won't see justice delivered until the ones responsible for Israeli settlers colonizing areas beyond the green line stand trial at ICJ.

Have you no shame Doris Cadigan you butt into other peoples lives calling yourself DUTCH??your problem is that you are ashamed of your native american identity, I am proud to be a Sioux I dont know what you are? but I know your,e a disgrace to us native americans you languish about the palestinians, which have nothing to do with you, but cant lament the poverty and suffering amongst our own?

P'nawn da, Nerys. Dw'in siarad Cymreig tipyn bach ac gweitio in y'r meddygfa Star, Ynys Mon. Hollandwr dw'i, ond licio Cymru llawer. Didn't give up after I got stuck in Ben Gurion aiport in 1993, put in the airport jail and then expelled. The young people who examined me were propably spooked by all the medical books I carried for the Palestine Red Crescent Society with names like "Advanced Trauma Life Support" and "Surgery for Victims of War". Came back the year after via Allenby Bridge and have not encountered any problems since then. Last year in November spent most of my time in Nablus. Then hired a car in Jerusalem/al-Quds and drove to Tel Aviv and also visited friends in Sakhnin and Nazareth. Visited the ruins of Megiddo and some Palestinian villages in the company of friends. Then drove back to Jerusalem/al-Quds via the Jordan valley. Gaza is off limits still. Too many problems with the DCO. I get around as you can see. What made you come and live in Israel?

"Attempts to scuttle dreaded peace talks continue as top priority for Hamas,IJ, Iran and their Ilk." Mea culpa I am guilty of ommission, but note you do not deny my basic assertion regarding Israel and place them in illustrious company. Regards

I have one Request from Israel , Please leave palestinian alone , please do not kill their children please stop killing women please stop destroying their homes , please leave palestinian alone, IDF show us how brave your soldiers are in Lebanon , do you remember what happened to your Golani in Lebanon

"america,s not occupying mexico"Israel is occupying territory" Where do you think new mexico,Arizona,California,Texas used to belong muchacha???and those of us who have managed to get back into what was orignally part of mexico now live in drug and gang infested ghetto's much like if not worse than the blacks in South Central!

Attempts to scuttle dreaded peace talks continue as top priority for Hamas, IJ, Iran and their ilk.

Hi Elisabeth if the UK Government had applied the same tactics in Northern Ireland as Israel is in the Occupied Territories there would still be no peace there. You,re cheerleading from a distance is out of place and inappropiate. Israel is a rogue State and in contravention of more UN resolutions than any other country on this planet not to mention it,s continued disregard for the Geneva Conventions and International Human Rights Laws.Shame on you .

as top prioity for Israeli Government.

General rules of international law and the Geneva Conventions require soldiers to wear uniforms with clearly identifying markings. Soldiers are not permitted to dress in the uniforms of their enemies or pretend to be civilians in order to attack enemy soldiers. These are very good rules, intended, in part, to secure the safety of non-combattants. However, these rules apply only to soldiers engaged in combat with other soldiers. They do not apply to police officers attempting to arrest criminals, as was the case in the article. I suspect #153 just didn't understand this distinction.

.... are at it again, doing what they do best... murder and destruction... The Palestinians have the right of self defense and in this case they need to fight back with all they have and at any cost.

The person putting Talkback posts here under the name 'Dutch' is an American or Canadian women called Doris Cardigan, if I remember correct. Although there are many hypocrite and stupid Dutchman, I feel obliged to say, this is not one of them. Just to inform you, have a nice day.

Z: "There should be a prohibition against the institution of laws or regulations which are at once, patently unenforceable and Utopian in nature,lest the proposing body which attempts to hoist these laws onto the unwilling protagonists becomes an irrelevance?" A state that engages in armed conflict can not expect to Do As It Pleases, and perfidy is one of those prohibitions. Patently unenforceable? I think not; capture a fighting soldier who is out of uniform and the enforcement is pretty straightforward; they swing from the end of a rope. Utopian in nature? I think not. Resorting to perfidy ensures (a) civilians in the area do NOT know that a military action is about to commence and, therefore, do not know to Get Out Of The Way (b) combatents can not know if *this* civilian or *that* civilian is not really a soldier in mufti. Both increase the risk to civilians, and it is therefore NOT utopian to insist that nations observe a prohibition on perfidy.

We are with the airforce in Afghanistan as well, bombing spotted Taliban and sometimes civilians, you know, "collateral damage". John has no point, he is one of those Dutchman with blindfolds regarding Israeli/Pal conflict and maybe a dosis of anti-Semitism with it as well. Stop waving your moral finger at other people, John, it's one the worst things Dutch people tend to do and it shows a talent for double standards e.g. hypocrisy.

Dear Doc, I read your post with interest. Galli siarad Cymraeg? I wanted to know if you had spent any time in Israel apart from stuck in the airport?

You hit the nail on the head with your analysis. An Israeli government sincerely interested in peace negotiations would refrain from provocative acts like the killing of 6 Palestinians. It is clear that Israel prefers the present status quo over genuine peace moves. The snubbing of the Pakistani president is an illustration of this. And - as you said - signs that Islamic Jihad were being persuaded to stop the firing of missiles on Sderot had to be counteracted in a decisive manner. I find it incredibly stupid and short sighted. Israel is not realising it, but by continuing to act like this it shows itself evermore to be a modern version of the Crusader states in the Middle Ages. We all know how they ended up.

1. I said Pals lived very well under Israel occupation 19 years after 67, certainly much better then under 19 years of Jordanian occupation before. 2. During Black September Jordanian Army killed IN ONE MONTH 5000 Pals by your count (twice or 3 times that much by other counts). Try to match that with Israeli Army killings of terrorists (or their shields).

Capturing/killing by resort to perfidy is an act one presumes, used by ALL nations in conflicts of many types. The UK will frequently resort to the use of SAS undercover units or teams to carry out actions in Iraq/Afghanistan.It is pretty basic stuff and i would imagine 007 type operations(or at least CIA/MI6 type), the like of which Russia China Hizbollah et al engage in frequently,even constantly, would be outlawed by this prohibition. There should be a prohibition against the institution of laws or regulations which are at once, patently unenforceable and Utopian in nature,lest the proposing body which attempts to hoist these laws onto the unwilling protagonists becomes an irrelevance?

Let alone cameras for public viewing...the idf sensor or footage to hide their crimes..some get caught on tape (breaking bones, beatings, humiliations etc) but not enough. Boy I would love to see that incident where the Israeli soldier emptied his clip on a Pali girl that was already down.."to confirm the kill" he said...Id love to see him trying to get out of it in court w/ video evidence. Breaking the silence: http://www.shovrimshtika.org/index_e.asp

Little Caroline girl, I did not talk about Israel. I talked about you. You are an identity grabber. I am insulted by that. You corrupt my Dutch roots. I resent that.

And are turning your focus onto Israel to make you feel better about yourself? Please Reply Alon Fisher PS I dont want to hear the U SA Jews or Israel caused those conflicts either its just so lame and pathetic.(print this post haaretz

Do you think the IDF are doing all of this out of boredom?why dont you go snivell and whine at the Ethiopians and Somalis about whats happening down there or are there lives cheaper then Palestinians?same applies for everybody else look at your news and see the chaos prevailing in the horn of Africa.

They wouldnt be able to play the pity card which the gullible Israel bashers fall for all the time. Thank You Alon Fisher

israel wants peace... but wont stop killing. however are you going to get peace? other than killing every palistinian man woman and child... there seenms to be no way out for israel, at least thats what its policies suggest... and that is in itself not possible. israels prime focus in assuring its future is not just combating militants and building fences, but has to be that of draining the swamp of hatred its policies have created. but israel is blinded by its machismo. even if israel secures a peace deal, as it has with egypt, it will unravel some day, because of the hatred which has been created by its conduct.the future is sad

Hezb allah have punished you twice, I thing you may need another punishment in order to learn how to behave. I do NOT care from whom...

Good news. Don't capture them. Shalit case shows it very clear. No captured terrorists no kidnapped IDF soldiers. No disgusting "change". Terrorist must be dead.

CluckFOOL's reply to blogger #60: "...But could I suggest that you use your time in prison to improve your knowledge of the English Language. It`s "writing", not "writting". If you`ll tell me which prison you`re in, I`ll be delighted to come and visit you..." Cluck FOOL, is this the example of "...empty, baleful, self-congratulatory drivel from [a pom] who regards himself far too highly [that] would be difficult to find.? Arrogant dill. "I suggest that you use your time in prison to improve your knowledge of the English Language. It`s "writing", not "writting"."

In the shtetls, and warsaw kielce,lublin,bialstok??some couple million of us?where do you propose we go,what about those german refugees who fled wroclaw,gdansk?should they be allowed to return to poland?

That's perfidy, and that is illegal under international law; rule 65 of the ICRC review of Customary International Law regarding armed conflict. "Rule 65. Killing, injuring or capturing an adversary by resort to perfidy is prohibited." Not that Israel feels bound by the rules of civilized behaviour, of course....

just not a live broadcast, it would endanger the operation, perhaps audio too?howbout cameras even at checkpoints aswell?, that would help every body understand it better, especially without the soldiers knowledge drop a line to disagree Alon Fisher

swiss are great humanists with great values. biggest invention of swiss is stamp J in german jews passport, even hitler did not get it, swiss authorities invented that, be proud.

Bob, War is all about laws and the protection of the innocent and the weak from the strong. Thus the use of force is very specific. Look up the Geneva Conventions and the International Covanants and the open fire regulations. Plus the Bill of rights and the Constitution. They were all drawn along the rules and regulations of government power and force. Plus there are the moral issues issues surrounding the use of force. You need to think again. Dutch

"But your head is probably so far up your arse, you can`t hear this either." From this distance it appears, Star of David, that your head is so far up your own arse that you're wearing yourself as a wig.

in Gaza and see to it that these terrorist militants are kept in check? Isn't it the duty of the Pal-Police force(like all over the world)to prevent crime from happening, to keep peace, order and law, which the latter means respecting the requirement of the Oslo-deal to renounce violence against Israel and co-operate in order to make the Independent PA materialize? If the Pal Police did its job, the IDF would not need do their job for them, right!?

It is just a Pal ceasefire that lasted less than a day. Not very trustworthy behaviour but good enough for the Islamist apology industry.

Leo Veenman, The law won't excuses for Israel. Too bad you do. When a state oppresses and kills its neighbors at will and occupy their land in defiance of international law --it loses its moral high ground and human support. Remember, Thou shall not steal and covet thy neighbor's land and goods and kill--are all clear violations of the Ten Command- ments. (Exodus 20: 13-17) Plus Israel's choseness violates International laws and especially all the International Covanants and Human Rights laws. Not to mention how it contradicts our democratic principles and makes Israel into a split personality state or a schizophrenic state. (Take your pick? ) Thus there is no question in my mind Israel is in the wrong. Too bad you make excuses for it. The law won't. Dutch

"Writing angry notes increase your obvious psychological discomfort" Not at all, Joseph. The thought that I might persuade just one Talkback reader to see Israel as it truly is - a vicious, lawless, brutal terrorist entity - keeps me perpetually cheerful and optimistic and makes these pages a pleasure to visit. But thanks for your concern.

"Welcome back, mate. Missed your pious, self-serving crap recently. How is the english diplomacy thing going with AJ, by the way? Another triumph? Or will Whitehall just accept Hamas or muslim clan largesse like it did when it kept doffing its cap to the Shia Iranian largesse??? There is always the miltary option, of course. When all else fails, send in the LYNX choppers..... Drule Britannia. Britannia drools in waves. We shall never, never, ne-ver be the faves" I republish your message in its entirety, Star of David, with an invitation for readers to consider it more closely. A better example of empty, baleful, self-congratulatory drivel from a Zionist who regards himself far too highly would be difficult to find. Whoever told you you were a clever boy (your mum?) deserves shooting.

How many millions have Moslems murdered in the recent past?

Logican - 1st. Black Sept was a civil war not a occupation and it finished in 70-71. From where you took 19 years? Black Sept - civil war from'68 to '70-71. That's all. 2nd. You've wrote that Jordanians kill 10 times more Pals than IDF :] give me evidence :] During Black Sept there were from 3.000 to 5.000 Palestinian causalities. During 1st and 2nd intifada IDF killed more than 5.000. So what are you talking about... learn, learn, learn. Without that you will always see world only in black&white and you will copy stereotypes about this conflict. Greets.

"Why don`t you just drop the first part of your name and just call yourself fool." Good news, Connie - you get a cigar for being the 1000th person to make this suggestion on Talkback. Give me your address and I'll post it to you, with an additional gift of a tube of KY Jelly.

"For all of your knowledge, I am actually writting from prison. Sentenced for 10 years for attempted murder." Sussex - I'm sure you were innocent of every last charge, or were framed, or the jury were all drunk when the evidence of your innocence was produced, or you are Jewish and the jury were anti-semites, every last one. But could I suggest that you use your time in prison to improve your knowledge of the English Language. It's "writing", not "writting". If you'll tell me which prison you're in, I'll be delighted to come and visit you and we can discuss the politics of the Holy Land. Thank you for writing to me.

Bob - 1st. Pals had opportunities in '48 and 2000, not in '67. 2nd. UN GA Res 181(II)'47 was against the UN Charter - right to self determination. UN have no rights to establish or divide any state. Also, why they should give more than 50% of their land (better part) to people who had no connection with it? There should be one state for Pals and Jews. To learn more read British white papers and commissions raports and maybe J.Quigley book :] 3rd. Camp David 2000 - check maps and read about it. Another time Pals were given nothing. 95% of their rights and requests (from Oslo process) were denied. Read some books than write about it. Domingo - Read about Oslo process, you will see who broke agreements. We can't turn back the time to '48 or '67 but we must recognize Palestinian rights. That's all.

you are probably taking your nom de plume of wealth, light and wisdom a touch too seriously. In australia, we say you are up yourself. But your head is probably so far up your arse, you can't hear this either. How's Vijaya? And the venerable Tosefta? PS Your bit about India opposing 181 in 1948 was cute. But disingenuous. With a minority muslim population of around 89 million at the time, I'd say that was being prudent, at a particularly vulnerable time in indian politics. Wouldn't you? But does not mentor Tosefta also say, even historical texts are malleable and this allows u to read texts in a subjective way? Mentor Tosefta is really impressive, until you begin to deconstruct him (sorry tossa).

"Israel is a Jewish state, not a terrorist state, and that is what offends people like you Clickfool, who believes that Israel has no right to exist." You're an ignorant woman, Elisabeth. I've said many times on Talkback that Israel has a right to exist - but within the pre-1967 Landgrab war borders. "In regards to the bombing you mentioned in 2002, Shehadeh obviously didn`t care about the children he surrounded himself with, so why should Israel care about them? He got what he deserved, as have many others." Presumably you won't mind if, at some point in the future, the Palestinians work on exactly the same principle and give the Israelis what they think they deserve. You won't come to Talkback bleating about the slaughter of Israeli innocents. Or are Israeli innocents somehow different fromArab innocents because they're Jews?

Their leaders certainly surrender at the drop of a hat while preaching victory or death. Then there is the sorround yourself with women trick-very honorable.

Richard: If Quassams were fired into the U.S. from Canadian soil, The U.S. could count on the Canadians to take care of the people doing the firing without U.S. intervention. I understand your point, but I think the real point is trust and acoountability. If Israel saw any type of policing from the other side, That...would go a long way in keeping the IDF on their side of the border. I wont go as far as to say a Pal leader can stop a rocket from being fired, but a real leader could stop the same people from firing a rocket twice. Someone needs to step up and lead.

meanwhile how about your innocent Arabs who have been killing unarmed Jews in the area,since the 1850's,it is sure to get a response. No doubt you find it upsetting that Jews hit back, tough!

Den Haag, I am sorry to hear you are an apologist for the rogue state of Israel which no longer represents the good people of Israel or indeed what represents a fair and just society. When a state oppresses and kills its neighbors at will and occupy their land in defiance of international law --it loses its moral high ground and human support. Hence JIsraeli choseness must go out the window as it violates all our International laws and Covenants and especially Human Rights laws. Not to mention our democratic principles. Too bad you make excuses for Israel. I know I won't. Dutch

even pals do accept that most people killed in israeli actions are militants aka terrorists. your army in 1970 did much better, even now nobody knows how many pals were killed, hundreds of them preferred israeli jail to your armi treatment. i salute your glorious army.

you are nazi as you occupied indian brazil for 500 years and should be executed for your crimes against humanity, without saying that as normal brazilian you are primitive, totally dishonest, lazy and illiterated, you must know your plase slave.

The Associated Press does not like to use the word terrorist, but that is what this militant was. You are not part of this guy's family and still manage to remain innocent. If you were not helping him directly, you were lending material support. As such, you should have been killed, without any questions asked, bomb the house. If the AP doesn't understand, the AP is wrong and in the future, the AP will be governed by Sharia anyway.

I learned, that 8000 Palestinians are jailed in Israel because of violence against Israelian citizens. But has ever an Israelian been charged for the daily murders commited by the IDF? In Europe IDF soldiers and the politicans would all be charged in Den Haag and we hope that this once will happen. Israel is no longer part of the Western civilisation. It doesn't have the same values.

I think you forgot an important detail my dear: QASSAMS WERE FIRED AT ISRAELIS FIRST...WHEN WILL THE PALESTINIAN ATROCITIES STOP!!!! I know, until they have liberated ALL their land from the Zionist pigs...GOOD LUCK!!!

Why is the concept of tit-for-tat so difficult to fathom???? Israel is the posessor of Apaches and F-18s and it routinely kills civilians and unappologetically!

More like 7 terrorists dead!

i am all for your suggestion for the IDF to wear cameras on their helmets. Under the condition that ALL recorded footage would be published, not only the one that might prove Israeli allegations. We are always asked to believe that every victim of Israeli violence was a "militant" - no proof presented and none required. And in the rare cases where it is too obvious that the victim was not a terrorist for the IDF to claim otherwise, they victims are still blamed for the mistake of being in their homes or on the street or in a car during an Israeli attack. And when all else fails, it can always be written off as an "regrettable mistake", no questions asked, no consequences. Yes, by all means, install cameras on the helmets of Israeli soldiers and let the whole world see them in action.

AP has long been knowned to be biased against Israel but to state that no Sedot citizens were injured when their were injuries clearly states that Israeli lives have no value.

The wars of aggression were carried out by your Arab brothers, who by now wish they had never started them, since they have led to the creation of terrorist monsters. Well, at least you admit that you are a terrorist yourself, unlike many who use Anglo-Europeanized names.

Who's starting the war now? Remember it starts in the West Bank then it goes to Gaza then it spreads to South Lebanon, Then Syria and Iran can be dragged in. I suggest calm. Stop competing with your neighbors and begin cooperating. Begin Sharing. You Israeli Jews want to drag the whole world into war because of your fear. Look no one want to exterminate you, your post Holocaust phobia has to end. You can live at peace with you neighbors, they will not exterminate unless you continue to fear that they will, but then it will not be them, it will be you. Once you stop having fear, they will make peace with you. Israel you are exterminating yourself by your own fear of being exterminated. Your enemy in not Hamas, your enemy is yourself. Remain calm you will not sink. Why do you kill so many Palestinians, without trial, and so graphically? There arms are weaker than yours, if they throw a Qasam it barely destroys a wall. Why create more hate in the unstable middle east?

In the real world, Israel cannot be blamed for: The Muslim enslavement of black Africans in Mauritania, The mass murder of hundreds of thousands of Arabs in a 13-year Algerian civil war, The endless brutal oppression of Egyptian Christian Copts in Egypt by Egyptian Muslims, The genocide of 2,000,000 black African Christians and animists in South Sudan by Sudanese Muslim Arabs over the past 23 years, The genocide of 800,000 black African Muslims in Western Sudan (aka Darfur) by Sudanese Muslim Arabs over the past 5 years, The blatant religious apartheid of the Saudi government in Arabia, The mass murder of Arabian Shi?ites by the Saudi royal family, The de facto maintenance of slavery as an economic institution in Arabia, Saddam Hussein?s murder of hundreds of thousands of his own Iraqi citizens during his 32 years of repressive tyrannical rule, The current Muslim-vs.-Muslim terrorist carnage in Iraq, The Taliban reign of terror in Afghanistan, etc...etc

Why is it that every time Israel defends itself against Palestinian terrorists the whole world hears about it over and over again and yet when rockets are fired into Israel by Palestinians the world rarely hears about it at all, let alone over and over again like anything Israel does? It barely even gets mentioned in the Israeli newspapers and not at all in international media. Most of the world has no knowledge of the rockets fired at Israel, the kidnapping attempts, the stabbings, the shootings, the bombs planted, the attempted suicide bombings and all of the other daily acts of terror committed by Palestinians. And then Israelis wonder why the so many people do not understand that they are defending themselves? Israel, stop telling your supporters these things. They already know! It is the rest of the world that you must start communicating these things to and as they happen, not just when you suddenly find yourselves on the defensive.

The holy land where every one is killing to prove gods existance.What a concept.Working to devide the world along religous lines,racial devide is not enough.I compare the three religions to three card monty.

Least but not last , Haaretz Last update - 08:39 , 14/04/2007 , Security sources: Hamas is arming Islamic Jihad with Qassams , By Ze'ev Schiff and Avi Issacharoff, Haaretz Correspondents , Security sources on Thursday said Hamas is supporting Islamic Jihad's rocket attacks against Israel with behind-the-scenes activities that include arming the organization's militants with Qassam rockets. They said Hamas is emerging as the lynchpin of Palestinian terrorist activities against Israel. While Hamas is maintaining a front of abiding by the cease-fire with Israel in the Gaza Strip, it is providing Qassam rockets to Islamic Jihad militants who are targeting Israeli towns in the south, the security sources said. According to security sources, Hamas has adopted a strategy of duality, which will be maintained under all circumstances, including a situation of a general cease-fire. On the basis of this strategy, a Palestinian organization will continue violent activities against Israel notwithstanding a cease-fire. This was a similar strategy used by Yasser Arafat, who committed the PLO in agreements to preserve cease-fires, but was always careful to retain his ties with extremist organizations that would continue their terrorist activities against Israel. In the past, Israeli intelligence provided evidence exposing this strategy. As such, so long as Hamas continues to cooperate with Islamic Jihad, sources say that the value and reliability of a cease-fire agreement is dubious. The cooperation between Hamas and Islamic Jihad involves an agreement not only to turn a blind eye to the rocket attacks against Israel, but also to provide the militants with the hardware. For obvious corrupted reasons against manipulated and presssured Olmert , one of them is entailed in US congress to approve 59M$ to Abbas security presidential guards , Israeli intelligence and especially caliphated Medias are restrained to provide evidence exposing not only Hamas but also Abbas dual strategy. not only to turn a blind eye to pals terrort attacks against Israel, but also to provide pal terror with the hardware. same as Hamas does same as Abbas is doin' sames Abbas's Mafia Boss Arafat did , Arafat livin' legacy thru Abbas and gangs , Hamas included to supposedly preserve cease-fires, but always careful to retain , support and promote pals terror organizations that would continue their terrorist activities against Israel. while pals leaders get their aim against Israel thru supposedly talks , and of course pals leaders denyin' any connections to pals terror wich pals masses support a la hezbollah style , Leftists rather than to fight back , prefer to make political space to Global Jihad , Leftists surely can't wait for UBL just to say the word Peace or political compromise while UBL keeps his Jihad terror order goin' thru his deputy Zawahiri , Frivolous , dangerous , utopist caliphated Leftist surely believe they can change a wolf into a sheep , or by default to dress the wolf as a sheep , While caliphated "liberal" Leftists keep Israel busy with all kind of manipulation and pressure almost to coercion from foreign officials visits aimed at and in line with the 2002 saudia initiative or the 2003 US Road Map , They surely would like to see Iran quietly , discreetly get its nukes for it may prevent an Int'l crisis , oil crisis entailed in a preemtive strike against Iran nukes , just so to give credit and to see how such Iran State would behave with nukes , What is best , to get world condemnations or to freeze 6 feet under with words of sympathy ,

Now that you read all these pal officials premedited condemnations against Israel's right of self defense against pal terror, Pals portrayin' themselves as victims and demandin' Int'l protection , your attention should also be turned to the followin's not before mentionin' Egypt's part of the game , Haaretz Last update - 08::03 , 08/04/2007 , PA Chairman tells forces to help stop Gaza Qassam rocket fire , By News Agencies , Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas called on Saturday for his security forces to step up efforts to prevent rockets from being fired into Israel from the Gaza Strip. ....Meanwhile, Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Aboul Gheit issued harsh words to Israel regarding an Israeli airstrike earlier on Saturday, and urged both Israel and the Palestinians not to carry out any further attacks. Gheit said Israeli actions did not "add to the ongoing efforts ... to bring the peace process back on track". (Harsh Egypt words against Israel and of course not against PA ), Haaretz Last update - 15:00 , 18/04/2007 , Abbas reaches deal with Islamic Jihad to halt Qassams , By Amos Harel and Avi Issacharoff, Haaretz Correspondent , PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas reached an agreement in principle with senior Islamic Jihad officials, whereby the organization would stop firing Qassam rockets at Israel for three weeks. ....It appears that while senior Fatah and Islamic Jihad officials have agreed to halt the rocket fire, .....Abbas will apparently turn a blind eye to "low profile" attacks such as Hamas sniper fire and mortar fire on IDF outposts along the Gaza Strip..... The second reason behind Abbas' push is that the PA chairman intends to depart shortly for an extended visit to Europe, (meanin to lift up economic boycott) , and the renewed calm would help him convince European leaders that the Palestinians are doing their part and that it is up to Israel to reciprocate with steps of its own.

With logic like yours no wonder your country is in the toilet. You folks cannot even stand up to terrorists....they overran your country faster than a person can fry an egg. Are you so weak or do you just admire the islamo/fascists among you?Do you identify with Hezbollah?

The history teachs, no occupation survived. Can last, 100,etc., years, but one day will be defeated. Will be not be diffrent about the israeli occupation no matter big are his IOF nazi troops. Sanaud!

Why you so seldom discuss specific issues which articles describes ? You always sounds angry with subjects totally unrelated to articles. There is other ways to decrease bitterness level in human. Writing angry notes increase your obvious psychological discomfort

All of Australia is occupied land stolen from the indiginous people, most of whom were slaughtered and the survivors are still discriminated against by the ruling Whites. Poor Martha, she is too dumb to see the irony in her comments.

It is the treacherous Israelis who need to abide by the UN resolutions, 242 to name one. It called for the Zionist to withdraw from the territories occupied after the 1967 war. The UN charter provides that all lands taken in war must be returned be returned; the objective being to deter war of aggression. But did anyone really expect these land grabbers to abide by any resolution they don't like. They have been stealing Palestinian land ever since they were given land of the Palestinians. And today they continue on their path of murder. Israel is the only so-called nation on the face of the earth that uses murder,i.e., targeted assassination as an integral part of their foreign policy. And don't forget Sharon's machinations leading to the massacres at Sabra and Chatilla or the murderous raid they made on the USS Liberty, the bulldozing of homes in the refugee camps. The Zionists are responsible for the fact the Israel, according to the latest polls, is the most-hated nation on earth.

It seems to me that Israel has started this round of bloodshed. It had already killed 3 militants. Than the palestinians fired some qassams and than another few palestinians were killed. Israel does not want it to be ( very relatively ) calm in the territories. Israel wants a full out invasion of Gaza.

killing the terrorists, the bomb makers, the teachers of terrorists. Rid the world of this scum.

If you were not so pathetic and dangerous your posts would make a great sit com. You are careless in your posts...I guess lying comes second nature to you. If you love the arab/muslim culture so much go and live in one of their countries. Let's see how long it will take before they slice out your tongue from your big dirty mouth and serve it to you on a platter.

Lol. The IDF makes a practice of shooting cameramen for this very reason. It's touching that you 'believe the IDF version.' Too bad you can't believe in something relatively harmless like Santa Claus.

I think he's being sarcastic. However, around here you can never tell.

Dear Dutch, I am really Dutch. I also lived in Germany. So that makes me double Dutch. I don't like it when people usurp my sophisticated background to spew all kinds of nonsense on the internet. In case you did not get this subtle hint. I think you don't know what you are talking about, and I am insulted by your abuse of my ethnic background.

WHo viloate the cease fire, Those groups who fire baby toys for a reason i can't understand. Mr Abbass said so, they are what i call provocative and with no sens. a retaliation that has been carried with less damage possible to civilian must be understood. An open offer to finish with this issue that lasted long time and hurt every one there and arround is ongoing and advantage need to be taken off. there is this culture of allowing a problem to be created so it can be used later by whom i don't know but i am sure not by civilian human all togother in the area. there are a lot of limitation due to the nature of the human and it could be dealt with by leader in a pragmatic way.

another Qassam aimed at killing innocent civillians, how dare the Al-Aqsa, Islamic Jihad and Popular Resistance immediately place the blame on the IDF. Nonsense!! Israel is not going to pick up and run away from terrorists, we will confront you and our resolve is stronger than yours!

u will NEVER find peace or taste it in palestine, u killers of civilians and innocent people ,your smelly dirty corps should be burned after u are slaughtered

Captured by IDF helmetcam: Bushra Wahash, 17, was hit by Israeli gunfire as she peered out the window of her home. What was her crime? She must have been occupying land G_D gave the Jews. We will remember.

You have no right to judge the Arab lifestyle and culture. Take a flight on the Starship Enterprise an try to convert everyone you encounter on every planet because they are not Christians or Jews. Same thing. Arabs have a right to be and to live just as you and I do. Israel is the invader, the occupier, the illegitimate state created by Europeans who wanted to get rid of their few remaining Jews and assuage their pathetic feelings of guilt. All Ashkenazim and their descendents should return from whence they came or colonize an empty land - Antarctica perhaps...

IF THE PALS DON'T FIGHT, THE SETTLERS TAKE, IF THE PALS DO FIGHT THE SETTLERS TAKE, BUT THE REST OF THE WORLD PAYS ATTENTION

"Israel may not specifically target innocent civilians" Right. "The purpose of this was to kill a Hamas (internationally recognised terrorist) leader who lived there. The Israelis succeeded..." Right. England (shamefully) butchered an innocent spaniard on the underground in the heat of the London bombings. In front of stunned civillians. Right. Englsih police did what they had to to potentially protect scores of others being slaughtered and killed an innocent. Right. England, like Israel, is a terrorist state. Wrong. You'll eventually get it, Fool. But for now, join with israel in celebrating 59 years of statehood and the 40th anniversary of the re-unification of Jerusalem. Don't choke.

laws, governing an appropriate military response? How absurd

Again and again, outrageous scandal. PA Chairman Mahmoud Abbas anounces he got from the Palestinian factions their agreement for calmness to give more chance for talks with PM Olmert. The IDF responds by undiscriminately massacring young Palestinians to sabotage any chance of peace.

Welcome back, mate. Missed your pious, self-serving crap recently. How is the english diplomacy thing going with AJ, by the way? Another triumph? Or will Whitehall just accept Hamas or muslim clan largesse like it did when it kept doffing its cap to the Shia Iranian largesse??? There is always the miltary option, of course. When all else fails, send in the LYNX choppers..... Drule Britannia. Britannia drools in waves. We shall never, never, ne-ver be the faves.

Are you writing under 2 names now? Lakshmi and Vijaya???????!!! :) Not very smart are you.

When the Palestinians want peace, Israel will be there. Until then stop screwing around with the terrorists and don't worry about the bleeding hearts who are as honest as Richard M. Nixon and as objective as Jimmy Carter.

I agree with Israel on this one. They had the right to fight back hard. It was a senseless act to Quassam an innocent house.

the Nakba started long before 1948.It started when in 1896,the racist Austrian Jew Theodor Herzel wrote his Der Judenstaat.He called for a Zionist state which would acquire land and ethnically cleanse the indigenous population.Many places were first approached,Kenya,an island etc and in the end the final solution fell on Palestine,when Weizmann and Co.managed to persuade Britain.The Balfour D etc.Palestine at that time was occupied by peasant farmers who held customary right to the land,even though the titular title was held by absentee landlords.Move forward to Res.181 which partitioned Palestine(India one of the 13 non European countries who opposed 181).The Nakba a deliberate act of ethnic cleansing by the Zionists.The Ps were expelled when not killed outright by Zionist terrorist gangs:at gunpoint,car bombs(Stern gang,the first practitioners) and grenades thrown into houses etc. Do read the Israeli New Historians.

According to human rights watch , about 500 civilians were killed in yugoslavia during the 40 day or so NATO bombings, spearheaded by Dutch airforce mind you, http://www.hrw.org/press/2000/02/nato207.htm My point is that in any war there are civilian deaths, but who is to blame? Israel or the frightened chickens of FATAH, Hamas, etc, who hide within their civilian population?

for all of you bleeding hearts out there who cry that israel is a terrorist state... may i remind you that Palestinians were killed because they conveniently forgot a ceasefire their 'fearless' leader proclaimed and they fired missiles into Israel. i live in Canada. what would happen if we launched Quassams into the US? Hrm.... someone would get their underpants bombed out. the Palestinians are lucky that Israel doesn't bomb Gaza into the history books and plow salt into their fields.

The Palestinians 'have never misses an opportunity to miss an opportunity.' the more they attack ISael the more their people suffer. AS Hamas and Fatah steals money from the people's mouth they blame ISrael so they attack to purpetuate their crimes against their own people.

You're too young to remember, and too ignorant to know better, but the Nakba you talk about? That was started by the Arabs. Educate yourself.

Thats' why it can't relinquish the West Bank. Ask the Islamo-fascists to recognize Israel, renounce violence, and abide by past agreements so we can leave the territories once and for all. We have no desire to rule over the Palestinians -- look at any poll of Israelis on the matter. Why can't you noodniks get that that?

Keep screaming. Maybe you'll be able to drown out all the words that you keep hearing, like Darfur, and Rwanda, and Tibet. Keep screaming. Someday, you won't even notice other people. Just Israel. That's what you want. You're getting there. Keep screaming.

Why don't you just drop the first part of your name and just call yourself fool.

So in your eyes Israel is a terrorist country.Then I guess you are not only ignorant but sightless.

and children too.

Around 2000 civilians were killed in that operation by Nato forces, I think Bob meant. As for the Dutch: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Srebrenica_massacre The government later accepted partial responsibility for the poor planning and lack of doing anything to protect human life. Because letting it happen is just as bad as doing it.

Same as the former apartheid state of South Africa was expelled from the U.N. by the General Assembly,with a simple majority vote,thus bypassing the Security Council.

Don't worry Israel, we don't have to. Your actions speak louder than any words! Shame on you...again! Move back to your own territory!

"Israeli border police proves again it is a terrorist organization at the service of a terrorist nation." John, I couldn't agree with you more and that's why so many peace loving Americans want to rein in the war mongers in Israel. Just as they reined in the criminals in the Bush Camp. Have you notice most of them are gone or are behind bars? Dutch

Even Syed Barakat has condemned this latest display of Israel's unrestrained brutality ! The Unity Government will surely take this up with the right authorities. This must be brought to the attention of the U.N. and the world community in general.

The Palestinians have long endured Israel's criminal acts.They will soon be commemorating the Nakba of 1948.There is a direct line connecting that horrendous event with what has been happening subsequently in the Occupied Territories. The international community must roundly condemn this latest atrocity!

Too often palestinian civilians die in these operations in west bank ,Gaza. I do not believe such policy will benefit israel in the long run. These deaths are ammunition for those who want to destroy israel. Some are claiming that it makes no sense for the international community to support israel existance since the existance of the israeli state is a price too big. These arguments make litle sense but israel policy of shooting and often killing palestinian civilians does not help israel image across the world

They will use what ever force is needed to advance their agenda.If it takes nukes,they will use them.Any one that thinks zionism is a peaceful cause have not stood in their way.They are ruthless as any ideology in history.Tell me how many have been killed to create facts on the ground.Do you think that iraq was not a zionist adventure.If you own 80%of the press you will get your message out.But that does not hide the crimes of the religous fanatics of judaism and islam.They both are trying to create prophesy through money and death.Morality takes a back seat to these hateful fanatics.They are so strung out on the belief that god protects them over the majority of mankind.But in the end hate is met with hate.Do i see the love behind the missionaries that destroyed the americas and the people,NO.

Even through the lines of Haaretz's confused report we can see the ongoing horror of the Occupation.

occupying territory,has been for the last 60 years.The only solution is for Israel to get out of there.

You said: Dutch jets did not kill hundreds of innocent civilians in Serbia. That is just something you made up to make Israel look less bad. But Dutch Army allowed thousand of them to be slaughtered there, many more then in Sabra-Shatilla, where you blame Sharon and the Israeli Army (for not protecting them from Arab Christians.)

Ever heard of Black September? When many more Pals were killed by Jordan Army in days then by Israel Army in decades. Yes, Pals lived more peacefully in West Bank before they started terror, both 19 years under Jordan before 67 and 19 years under Israel after 67. Except that Health and prosperity and population growth was far superior under Israeli occupation, till the start of Pal terror inside Israel.

Ever heard of Black September? Yes, Pals lived more peacefully in West Bank before they started terror, both 19 years under Jordan before 67 and 19 years under Israel after 67. Except that Health and prosperity and population growth was far superior under Israeli occupation.

Right, and when you are not oppressed by another, you oppress each other. Just look at Afghanistan under the Taliban, Iraq under Saddam, Saudi Arabia and its fundamentalist regime, and Iran for the last thirty years. Its amazing, you always find someone to blame for opressing you, then turn it right around on yourself because of your backwards, century-old way of looking at religion. But I know, Saudi Arabia, Iran, Iraq, and Afghanistan were the leaders of human rights before the awful US and Israel came around. Try looking at a progressive society and see what it can do for your quality of life, respect around the world, and economy, unfortunately for you, living under Islamic law is too important. The real problem is that Muslims value life in a different way than Jews or Christians. Death is an honor rather than a tragedy. Women are an object or possession rather than a person, education is learning religion instead of the Arts and Sciences...am I the only who says this?

Wasn't Islamic Jihad about to agree to join Hamas in refraining from firing Kassams? Obviously, Israel had to act quickly. The threat of peace was mounting.

No private militias in Israel JJ - don't project.

Kasaams are fired at Israel, mainly at Sederot almost every week!!! Looks like the IDF need to bombard Northern Gaza like Southern Lebanon for a few weeks. Showing any further restraint is just prolonging the inevitable Katyushas.

Have you ever seen the map of the partition of Palestine (1947)? If you did you would have found out that PALESTINE was divided in practically 1/2 for a PALESTINIAN STATE, and half for the Jews to have a HOMELAND, and JERUSALEM is to be an international enclave administered by th UN. The ARAB HALF was not given to the Hashemite KINGDOM of JORDAN,, nor GAZA to the Egytians. You need to read the history again before giving false informations. NOw you can go and learn the facts as why the West Bank was administered by the JORDANIANS, and Gaza by the Egytians.It is so simple when you do take time to get informed.

For all of your knowledge, I am actually writting from prison. Sentenced for 10 years for attempted murder.

"Israeli border police proves again it is a terrorist organization at the service of a terrorist nation." John, I couldn't agree with you more and so would many peace loving Americans who want to dump the criminals in this shitty system. Many of them have their own website and followers and will rein in the criminals in this shitty system. Just as they did in the Bush Camp. (You notice most of them are gone and some are behind bars. Needless to say Israel will have much higher numbers. ) Thus it would be an understatement to say their days are number- ed. Thank you for raising your voice too. It all counts. Dutch

The Netherlands is one of the 19 states responsible for what happened in Serbia as a result of Nato's aggression. Indeed, Dutch F16s were involved, but can you back up your assertion regarding the death of hundreds of civs? Apart from this, what happened in the YU war has no relation whatsoever with Israelis in civvies going around killing Palestinians at the other side of Israel's border, and vice versa. In the end, neither Nato's nor Israel's actions resulting in the death of noncoms are to be described as 'just', 'valid' or even defendible.

Islamo-Fascists are bloody, brainwashed, insane Idiots. People of the World, Kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill, kill fascists.

What do you expect Israel to do? Sit on its hands while its civilians are routinely bombed at Sderot or snipered at the Gaza border? By complaining every time Israel tries taking out these terrorists uou show your true colors. You make no such complaints when our civilians get attacked. Morality is not on your side.

when Kassam rockets were fired from Gaza and hit a house in Sderot, injuring 2.

am i missing something?? her brother is a terrorist, she and the parents lets him live there?? what do they expect would happen.

Dutch jets did not kill hundreds of innocent civilians in Serbia. That is just something you made up to make Israel look less bad.

Israel is a Jewish state, not a terrorist state, and that is what offends people like you Clickfool, who believes that Israel has no right to exist. In regards to the bombing you mentioned in 2002, Shehadeh obviously didn't care about the children he surrounded himself with, so why should Israel care about them? He got what he deserved, as have many others.

Bravo, Dominik, bardzo dobrze! It is very important that persons like Witek be corrected at once, or the mistake will be taken for the truth.

I liked the bit best after the Qassams were launched, when those that fired them got a missile up their a$$. That was priceless! The pig who died wasn't martyred - more like tomatoed!

You're the one who needs to get rid of the blindfolds. Terrorists in Gaza have always hidden amongst their own civilians and then cried "foul" when the IDF justly bombed them. Incidentally 95% of the time they killed who they were going after and that makes it a success. Those terrorists in Hamas deserve to die for their crimes. Israel is defending itself. Today we saw proper justice delivered to three terrorists in Jenin and another in Gaza.

Very well said, and right on the mark.