IDF: Hamas now in full control of Gaza arms smuggling

perhsps more mental accuity and faculties wouldhelp you understand,. Israeli deaths of civilians for some reason seems to attach itself directly to the terrorists who are shelling or planting bombs. Tere appear to be no end of martyrs willing to be satnding around such terrorists when they do their dirty deeds who in the course of an IAF attack seem to find themselves in the line of fire. Is this deliberate?? makes for good press for the palis. Stop and think natalie who does it serve to have dead civies? Besides the palis embrace the culture of death

You neglected to mention the Pro-Pal posters that post under various aliases, that by itself is fakery---

"Have you noticed that all these "fakes" are against the pro-Palestinian posters????" I have been faked twice. Cipora has been faked innumerable times. So have been Tod Zuckerman, Ronnie Wolman, Zionist forever, and others. Apropos "whining" for which you have a psychological underlying theme of your own, These posters, who have been faked many times, don't whine as loud as your "Pro-Palestinian" friends do. It's Palestinian culture to whine and not to do. You decry as whining when somebody claims his/her rights, but fail to see that only the "pro-Pal" whines got you to believe they are "faked" more, or more often, than others.

Thanks for your post about the Victor/Paul identity. Also Hannah says Cipora Kohn is the poster who writes the "fake" Hannah posts. Have you noticed that all these "fakes" are against the pro-Palestinian posters???? Regards

Probably clickfool and labharse and boycott are all the same person - could be for all I know. There are those who claim that Tosefta (aka Ben Gurion/Judge Judy/the Golem) and Mark Lincoln are the same person. I personally think that horrible Hannah, Durson and ballistic are inventions of the same basic paid hack.

"Those of us that are talkback regulars can take satisfaction in that click has wasted several years of his life with his inane posts" (;-) CF

"Once you said you mean to irritate, you lost your game, Clickfool. Not everyone will read this post. Perhaps most of those who would ignore you definitely after your announcement, won`t read it. So you may get on despite your mistake. Now, once you cut and paste any decontextualized few words of this post and throw it back to me, be sure: I`m not interested, and won`t read it" I wish I had a fiver every time someone on Talkback or on my previous US Motley Fool discussion board said they wouldn't read my posts. Zionists have such big, arrogant mouths they can't resist reading my messages and taking a pop at me. There's actually a fundamental misconception in your message, Carlos. It wouldn't actually worry me if no-one read me or replied to me. Putting thoughts together on a discussion board in the world's most beautiful language is reward enough in itself.

"So a few civillians will die. So what?" Just so long as they're not Jewish civilians, hey, Derek Ferguson?

This is contained in message # 173. "Paul Harris" says the following: "JUST COMPARE THE POSTS !! BORIS LABARSE OF LEWES !!" Now, I told a joke a while back, suggesting that my real name was "Boris" from "Cardigan". Only "Victor Hardman" failed to recognise it for what it was - a joke. "Victor" has been calling me Boris ever since. No-one else has. Here we have the alleged "Paul Harris" suddenly calling me Boris. A dead giveaway from a not-very-bright poster. Proof conclusive. Goodbye, Paul Harris/Victor Hardman. Talk to you again, perhaps when you resurface with another alias. Take care though - your style and content is very easy to spot.

"How can I prove to you I do not read all,let alone a few of you posts." (;-) CF

Better than suffering from SHMOK HOME SIN DRONE as you do!!!

Injustices in India does not mean Ravi cannot speak out against genocide. Would you agree if Hitler said that those who oppose the holocaust should come from perfect societies ?

The Jews in the Warsaw Ghetto would have smuggled weapons to defend themselves. Israel is like a commande in a tank crying that a child with a fork is a danger to him.

Such a headline is clearly false, or very incomplete. Whatever is smuggled into Gaza comes from Egypt. Hamas does not control the Sinai, Egypt does. Why did that IDF source float such a questionable declaration? Did it really not explain how it is possible for Hamas to control both sides of the border? Did Harel really not ask? Why not? That question belongs in the article, and the answer, whatever it was. If there is a sensible explanation it certainly needs to be laid out. As it stands the article is not journalism.

As I have read over the years of rocket and mortar attacks on the people of Israel from hateful religious fanatics in Gaza I have wondered why the Israeli government dose not set up prisons in those areas where the rockets land -- for the captured so-called Palestinian militants? On the other hand, if the government continues to do little, the range of the smuggled rockets will continue to increase so that the prisons will eventually come to be in range.

Israel cannot be compared to the US, even remotely. The US has the sort of strategic depth, militarily, geographically and economically, that one can only dream of. Furthermore, the US has enormous political clout. Yet, even the US has difficult challenges when dealing with the threat of terrorism. It would take many posts to answer yours completely. Suffice it to say that Gaza is a serious problem that eventually Israel will have to deal with. I predict many casualties, including unfortunately civilan casualties. I also predict huge outrage from various people.

Just another piece of never ending story......

I have the impression that Jordan's King Abdullah and his government are probably the most likely to want a lasting and comprehensive peace agreement. Jordan is the only Arab country that has given Palestinians citizenship rights. What actually goes on behind the scenes is anybody's guess. All I am certain about is the major threat posed by Iran and its various proxies.

One of the great statesmen and heros of the Middle East.

Howdy Labhras; Sorry, but I don't take orders or instructions from anybody or anything (except for law-enforcement officers or court orders neither of which apply here). "Divide and conquer.Wont work."--Labhras I don't see why not. There are many examples of countries breaking up into independent pieces post WW II especially when the pieces are physically separated from each other such as the United Arab Republic (Egypt and Syria) and East and West Pakistan (now Bangladesh and Pakistan respectively). I presume that you agree with the hopes and desires of the international diplomatic community that the West Bank and the Gaza Strip can be politically glued back together again under the authority of the PA, but I don't see that as being very practical since Hamas won't go for it unless they can regain control over the PA. It is not unreasonable to suppose that Hamastan and Fatahland will remain physically and politically independent of each other permanently. More likely in fact.

felt no pain" Only a real imbecile could make such a statement, and one has.

Fellow Talkbackers, more and more each day I'm coming to the conclusion that EXTREMISTS such as Gabe1, although his posts are somewhat humorous & probably censored repeatedly, will only accept the leftists humanist approach (somewhat the source of the peace process) to the Middle East conflict resolution, is if deprogramming is applied. Otherwise, it's going to be more of the same. Brainwashing is very difficult to undo and his continual chatter doesn't give any indication of bringing about a fair resolution, reconciliation and acceptance of the Palestinians as our neighbours. What do you think fellow posters?

The only people that click sucks in a new readers to talkback. It only takes few posts to discover his game. Those of us that are talkback regulars can take satisfaction in that click has wasted several years of his life with his inane posts for cause he can't win. post away old click.

Boy you two are really desperate.You really are pissed off with yourself Mr Harris/Hardman.Trying to pull off an adult stunt but only having childish qualities to do it with. Boy what a pair of losers.

Your getting more stupid by each post.Boy what an idiot.

Hi Silvienne, Victor Hardman is none other than Paul harris.See post #25 on this thread.It is from Paul Harris ---belfast.The rest of his posts are from Tel Aviv.He was outed the other day by another poster.His posts are full of the same usual crap minus the "Caps".Harris has been missing for weeks and just showed up after he had been outed.He is still posting as Victor Hardhead to try to fool people.He is the yellow streak the police in belfast are looking for, on a charge of using a "false" identity. Regards

I see. Thank you for your impressions. In case you have time and want to respond, I have two questions: 1. Would you say Jordan has a similar attitude towards its peace with Israel? 2. Do you see repercussions (In Gaza?) for Israel in the current cozying up between Egypt and Iran? Thank you so much Cipora, Fortuna.

Dear Kath' Besides smart, funny, articulated and determined, you seem a polyglot too ! Wow ! As for your reaction when you notice your rash spelling, the same happens to me. But I try my best specially since English is not my mother tongue. Thank you for recommending me Klaudia. I have seen her posts, but rarely. Cipora is fabulous, and so calm. Is there anybody else you would recommend paying attention to? Muchas gracias Kath' Con afecto, admiracion y mis buenos deseos desde el sur, Shalom alaij, Fortuna Benmayor.

Let me ask a silly question, why wouldn`t they do so if it is so attaining & as simple as 123? On the more serious note, what has to be asked is what's going to come out of it & where it's headed. While two of king George`s most dedicated `fools` jumping up & down in his farewell attempt to rewrite history, playing appeasing games of `friends forever` under his thumb, Hamas adopts Hezbollah model for the unavoidable confrontation. One (in the most `humane` spirit of sustaining a direct blow before dealing with the problem) waiting for the Hamas dictated timing of the bloody disaster to happen. I am sure everyone will regret Israeli soldiers dying from much deadlier than should have been fire coming from `under women skirts`, mosques, civilian houses & other well prepared places. The other will be `impotent` on the sidelines, watching Israel & Hamas bloody each other noses, smiling inside & on the outside yelling to the world `Zionist genocide` in the most stark Pal patriotic pose.

Undoubtedly, you are a smart behind. But you have made one mistake recently. You said you were taking advantage of Haaretz's talkback rules to irritate "Zionists". That was a mistake, Clickfool, and I'll tell you why: The only explicit purpose you had, namely annoying people, occurs when you lure them to persuade you out of what they believe are your beliefs. Once you said you mean to irritate, you lost your game, Clickfool. Not everyone will read this post. Perhaps most of those who would ignore you definitely after your announcement, won't read it. So you may get on despite your mistake. Now, once you cut and paste any decontextualized few words of this post and throw it back to me, be sure: I'm not interested, and won't read it.

Mr. Slowman, We know, and you yourself know, that you are extremely and awfully slow as a censor. It is a fact which may have a good explanation. Let me mention to you a couple of points which may make you less than so terribly irritating. 1. You can barely service 2-3 forums and have little to no time for the rest. Why put up 6 forums for discussion? All you do is waste people`s time by getting them to write comments which never see the light of day. Do not irritate people and you will be treated better. 2. You tend to first take care of the forums not on the list (in the main news articles), and on yesterday`s forums. This makes little sense. Do the listed forums first. After all, these are those you are trying to sell. You may not be happy about our criticism, but you can reduce the irritation by acting more reasonably. Thank you for your understanding. "The dying, the cripple, the mental, the unwanted, the unloved, they are Jesus in disguise." - Mother Teresa

"Sand is soft, they can easily dig new tunnels even if the old ones are filled..." Right, but where are they going to dump all that sand without being noticed? As they dragged it away wouldn't the IDF notice? "Paving it over, how deep would the paving go and who says the can`t start a new tunnel where the paving ends off??" Yes, I see that, but...you're right. Even if it was paved over to a depth of twenty feet it could still be dug through... I have no further suggestions...except the water hoses??

I went and replied to the fake,because, as you say, the content was so much like you, that I missed the childish writing you mention!

I gotta get out my printed maps..not sure where the Red Sea is, must admit it! Where have you been...gone for a while?!

"wholesale murder of non-combatants on a day to day basis" Are you describing the IDF? As for Clickfool being "clearly psychotic", you aren't qualified to judge that, now are you? Do you work in a mental hospital?

Actually, your post was quite funny...!! I bet even Clickfool thought so too!

What are those shoulder-rockets the mujahedin used to fight the Soviet tanks with called? Aha, RPGs!!

...facetious and in very poor taste. Sometimes on these threads things get so awful...(such as Kath calling Dutch Dirk a "dirty Arab" on another thread recently)...that I get in a sort of black humour mood. Please, excuse what I wrote. Regards

Click clapes for much more then Israels defeat.

I can assure you that the US would not act as Israel has, at least under a rational US government. First we would provide at least minimal defenses for any affected areas. Then we would invade and occupy the territory from which we were taking fire and put it under military occupation. We would then engage in counter terrorism and counter-insurgency operations. But we would not build American cities or towns unless Congress made the decision to incorporate the territory into the US. If incorporated, as we have done in the past, we would grant full citizenship to all residents. You probably noted my "rational" qualification. Our current government allows some of our southern border to come under fire, without consequences, occasionally, and refuses to even patrol the borders with regularity. Osama bin Laden could cross either the US-Mexico border or the US-Canada border with impunity if he so chose. US border security is a joke.

of arms in such a steady stream. After all, isn't Hamas a terrorist entity? And the US does have the right to put a little pressure on those assisting terrorist groups. Is the US being a good friend by looking the other way?

Hi Jeff --- you stated once when I suggested you would not make a good politician or diplomat, that you did not want to be a scumbag politician or Diplomat.It is easy to see why, in reading your posts. You just cant get it.Seperating Hamas will not work.Have your handlers given you specific instructions to push that line.Surely that is not the private opinion of a reasonably intelligent person. If you believe this can be solved without Hamas,who represent 1.3 million Palestinians you are very much in a minority. It is possible of course that your handlers are getting their instructions from the Israeli Government, who to this point show no interest in making peace.Just like all their predecessors, and this approach is just what they want.Divide and conquer.Wont work. I see you are on the 4 to 12 shift this week.Must be a drag at your age to be still working, and especially when you only get to push other people,s thoughts. Oh well.

Clickfool, Macabee just said give the pal citizens a warning. He didn't suggest they go anywhere. So a few civillians will die. So what? Is that any worse than muslims actively targetting Jewish pensioners and kindy children? England doesn't need any more anti-semitic dickheads than it already has.

Dear Talkback participants, You may have noticed that we were being served by Slowman, the notoriously and exceedingly slow censor. This can also explain the disappearance of the censor for the last few hours. Slowman comes in every few hours, allows a few posts to be published, then disappears again. The rest of the posts languish in limbo until, perhaps, they are allowed to see the light of day towards the end of Slowman's shift. (He does want to keep his job, after all.) Who can possibly benefit from this state of affairs? Slowman himself ends up doing the work, although so many hours after the fact that nobody reads those late posts any more. The end result of the Slowman system is to choke the Haaretz Talkback to death. And the beneficiary is the Jerusalem Post naturally, the Haaretz competitor. My thesis: SLOWMAN IS A PLANT OF J-POST IN HAARETZ. Please share with us your thoughts on the matter, and what to do about it. Thanks.

I must say that in a very view words you have captured the essence of what is actually happening and no amount of huffingand puffing by either ESTHER, TZFONIT, DANITE , MARGIE or JANE will change that. Until and unless there is a sea change on the Arab side with a 180 Degree turn than any CONCESSIONS or NEGOTIATIONS are like spitting in the wind. The answer to the Arabs , whether Abbas, Assad or any other Tin Pot distator should be a SIMPLY. COME BACK WHEN YOU Can guarantee Israels security, when you can reign in your Militias and when you can tell us that the CONFLICT is over. We will not surrender but build more settlements and as time goes by you will get less and not more or even what you would get now. We will not wait forever.It is not your land and with time we will share less. That is the incentive not hope that they will get more.

LB: "The 1967 ceasefire and unconditional surrender of occupation (Egypt) forces in Gaza has terminated..." The disengagement plan did not "terminate" the IDF's authority over the strip: "Israel will evacuate the Gaza Strip, including all existing Israeli towns and villages, and will redeploy outside the Strip." The key word is "redeploy", not "withdraw" i.e. the IDF retains authority to redeploy back in at will, which is a feature of an OCCUPYING FORCE, not a FOREIGN ARMED FORCE. "Israel reserves its inherent right of self defense, both preventive and reactive, including where necessary the use of force, in respect of threats emanating from the Gaza Strip." A mere (undefined) "threat" is enough for Israel to do, well, anything i.e. it does not have to be responding to an armed attack in order to "pre-emptively" exercise authority over Gaza. Which means it HAS RETAINED authority over Gaza. Article 42, Hague Regs, Brnd.

you are rumbled boris labarse!! labarse will be reported too !

C: "Are there any articles that apply to the Palestinians launching rockets at Israel from Gaza on a daily basis?" Articles 22, 25, 26, 27. It is a war crime to fire an artillery barrage indiscriminantly into a civilian population, ChanahS. Israel has every right to target any group that it sees firing such rockets, PROVIDED its own response does not constitute a war crime in its own right. The good Dr. Brnd's proposal for an Israeli response would be a war crime, ChanahS; nations can no more respond to a crime with a crime that I could legally kidnap you and demolish your home because you have been throwing rocks at mine.

Tossi, how quaint your review of internal Palestinian politics. I realize that you have a "thing" for Hamas, but you do not have to share it with the whole Talkback community. Your musings regarding this group of thugs sounds more like "pillow-talk" than thinking. You have a brain and an appendage please use the former. Just a few months ago, the Hamas was busy parading Fatah members in their underwear before the television cameras of the world, talk about humiliation. If that was not enough they brutally murdered over a hundred Fatah members in what you deem democracy in action. You may dream of a unity gov't, but if you at all acquainted with the workings of the Middle Eastern mind then you would realize that Fatah has quite a few scores to settle with Hamas, and one of these is NOT unity. So dream on my fine janitor, you did claim to work in a school, dream of this unity and continue to apply perfume and makeup to the Hamas dog. (my apologies to all janitors)

JUST COMPARE THE POSTS !! BORIS LABARSE OF LEWES !!

It is important that clicky never be ignored. clicky does the Jewish people a great service. Without the clickies of the world the Jewish people might forget that there are those in the world that are saddened that Hitler did not finish his mission.

Devious to describe Israel, clicky? Seems like the same word that has been used by antisemites to describe Jews. caught you.....and please don't lower yourself and claim a fake posted this message.

Its nice to see you are cheering for more suffering for the Palestinian people. What do you think thhe IDF is going to do if your wish comes to fruition send them a letter of congratulations. Seems like you have lowered your Standards to that of the less informed that lurk these threads. Keep up the good work old clicky, it makes the 10 year old proud.

I still have to figure out your niche. You seem to be quite good with talking to Arab apologists and Anti semites. But after years of experience in a Racist environment you must have gotten quite goood at it as is Esther and MARGIE. I always thought that this site is about Israel that none of the South Africans with the exception of Mirian and Choni are prepared to defend. I consider myself an unconditional Patriot unlike the likes of people posting here. So please cut that nonsense and either put up or shut up MY DEAR.

Jeff, people without political understanding should not engage in political discussions. I can talk to you about facts, even on spaghetti dishes, but not about your opinions. Why not keep them for like-endowed people.

You said: A justified description of someone who encourages wholesale murder of non-combatants on a day to day basis is that he is clearly psychotic. To my knowledge, Israel has been killing Palestinians at a constant rate for years. On a day to day basis. Women, Children and other innocent civilians. So "Clearly Psychotic"? If you are justifying Israels actions in the Occupied territories, then you accuse yourself. On the issue of Hamas having Anti Tank weapons and Stingers. They are mainly defensive and all territories arguably have the right to defensive weapons. On the other hand. Main battle tanks, Helicopter gunships, Fighter planes and Nuclear Weapons. . . Who would win in an outright war? Israel of course. What do you have to fear from Palestine but the stopping of the Land grab underway in the West Bank. Work for peace. Most Palestinians, Israelis and other people in the region want it. Don't you want to give this to your children? ? ?

Gaza is awash in weapons of all kinds, the proof is very clear.Regards

Danite ole chap Nice advocating all those juicy tales from far away,unlike FOX,who altough originated from there is now settled here with a family. Don't take any notice of me.Its just my fervent wish that more Jews should make alliyah to Israel.Didn't mean to intrude. About Tzfonit and her foolish ideas.Sorry she does tend to go overboard with a one state solution,WHAT? And you are wishing her luck. Thank goodness she doesn't have any influence in any of our high echelons in the GOV'. I happen to know of one member in the Knesset(no relation or family member)but by association through nieces's husband side.Cannot divulge the name for obvious reasons.Hey,I read about Liberman the so-called far right changing his colours! and advocating on the change to be made on the Jerusalem issue.Couldn't believe what I read.They are calling him the second Beilin! So much for politicians.Bah! Regards to thee

Hi Cipora, you know this can be done in stages, first an offcial agreement then implementation dependent upon disarming the gangs.I dont see how Israel can lose here.We have to accept the reality and try to make the best out of it.If an agreement is not reached with abbas and he goes down then this conflict is locked in for another generation.The risks to keeping Palestine far out weigh the risks of getting ris of this ball and chain.Regards to you as usual.

JEWS ! TO SMART :) THEY SPEAK VERY FINE ANGLISH :)

Whether it works out good or bad, israels position is still greatly improved, so it is a win win for israel.While I hope the Pals will act in a normal once they have a state , it also might quickly become a failed state.As I said either way israel wins with a two state solution.Regards

Since Israel hasn't signed a deal with Hamas either then perhaps we should all go down to the border on day trips and practise our missile shooting into Gaza. It would be a nice quiet way to establish a relationship with our next door neighbour who is too polite to talk to people it hasn't signed agreements with.

Howdy Tosefta; I can handle the "good" and the "bad" parts of your post, but the "stupid" part is more like sly cunning on the part of Israel which is taking advantage of the fortuitous schism in Palestinian national unity than anything else. It is in Israel's best interests to deal with Hamastan and Fatahland separately instead of as an united whole. Keeping Hamas out of the peace discussions and penned up in the Gaza Strip will increase the chances of Israel and the PA coming to an agreement with respect to the West Bank only while leaving the Gaza Strip for later. Who cares that Hamas wants to resurrect the unity government? That would only work if the PLO also wanted to do so and it doesn't. Hamas just got through making itself an illegal political party by conducting an armed rebellion in the Gaza Strip against the PA and has painted itself into a corner both physically and politically. So much for your "competent organization".

"You may choose to ignore what I am trying to put across, because your attitudes are biased, standardirized." Perhaps, if I were a supporter of Israel, I would share your point of view and be cured of my "bias". I would have difficulty in coming round to your way of thinking though, because I cannot get past a few particular facts. (1) Israel accuses Hamas and Hizbollah of being terrorist groups that target civilians while, at the same time, Israel kills many more civilians than Hamas and Hizbollah combined, and does so without comment. (2) Israel expresses a desire for peace, realizing that this would call for a Palestinian state in the west bank, yet Israel continues to expand west bank settlements past all possibility of resettlement. There are many more problem areas, but these two are hardest for me to understand.

There is no way in which a person can tie himself in knots and believe eleven impossible things before breakfast and still convince the world. One of the three, perhaps, two of the three, maybe, but three of the three: impossible.

Cipora On the response to me about Egypt:That I did not agree with.Okay we do have a sort of paper, albeit a bit of a choker,and you do know I am sure. The looking the other way while the tunnels are built,the constant traffic of weapons transferance etc.If this you think is acceptable than I'll say no more. Now on Tzfonit.She does have some weird ideas,and no wonder Gabe is so against her advocating a "one state" solution.They don't yet have agreements on a two state,let alone to ONE STATE? Sory I find it ludicrous and there are more things to be discussed and nothing but hot air for the present. What can one say,let's see what will transpire after next month's gathering in Minneapolis.I do not expect much progress in view of Abass' demands which will not be favourable to Israel. Best regards

Smuggle away, lads, it matters not. Within the year the EU, US and Israel will lay waste to the present Iran occupation, its Syrian puppet, and their joint puppets Huzzy, Muddy, and Hamastan.

May Allah bless my faithful islamic brothers in Egypt who work unselfishly to advance the peace process. I hope you sent a birthday card for his 62nd bithday, to Ehud Olmert the future Grand Mufti of Nablus. Allahu AKHBAR!

YEP, BIG IDIOT

Peace treaties are made between nations, not with populations. It is the responsibility of the leaders of nations to explain to their population the benefits of having peace, as opposed to having war. Nor does dislike of people for another ever justify war. The entire purpose of peace treaties is to substitute the rule of law for the rule of the sword. Israel does not expect to be loved, only to be let in peace.

The problem is finding them. When Israel abandoned Gaza the terrorists moved in - hideing tunnels below buildings etc. At one time Israel was going to build a canal around Gaza to cut it off from Egypt - but egypt objected sayin g it would pollute their water. Funny - these are the same Egyptians who refuswed to take Gaza back and care for the EGYPTIANS who reside there - when Israel returned its other lands.

Stockholm Syndrome my derrier! How can I prove to you I do not read all,let alone a few of you posts.But if you think that I may and it flatters your ego,who am I to argue. Enjoy your popularity if it helps boost your morale how is that for generosity?

I doubt that you have many fans among those of us who are zionists. We do not appreciate it when people who ostensibly have no stake in this conflict clap at the idea of Israel's defeat.

Sorry to say, but you are very naive. Hamas will never sign any agreements. In case you have forgotten, they are the rejectionist camp, and have not been willing to make any steps toward peace. The question is not whether there should be a two state solution, but whether one can get there at all, and whether the Arabs can be trusted to keep agreements. You should realize that the rest of the world cannot be counted on to guarantee Israel's existence.

Macabee We have said this time and again,but the GOV'just keeps holding back for some unknown reason.I wish they put up,or shut up! I'll tell you what,WE NEED THE "MACCABEES" TO DEAL WITH THE TERRORIST ENTITY.WOULD YOU AGREE WITH ME?I HOPE SO.I AM NOT JOCKING AND MEAN IT SINCERELY. It is always the softly,softly approach and nothing at the end bar more kassams and the families living under stress each and every day.

I do get it ChannahS.You are a arcist and you have it in your blood.You were weened on it,and proof of your guilt lies in your opening statement. Just so you know,I will be filing your post and watching closely for the next time you accuse someone of not denouncing Palestinian crimes. I have no "mis-conceptions", about people of your ilk.I have known enough of you to sense your true nature.Yours is one of an Apartheid Apologist.Why dont you just come out and admit it.If you support the illegal settlement expansion and the settler only roads, then you support "Apartheid"At least Gabe1 has the truthfulness to say it as it is.One can respect him more for that at least. Incidentally why do you respond if you state you dont owe me any declarations.

"Give the civilians a warning and then re-take this hell-hole that is like a dagger in Israel`s heart!!" Er...what are the Palestinian civilians supposed to do - go for a holiday in Eilat?

Dear Censor, Once again you have disabled the "new line" feature. It is now impossible to have new paragraphs or spaces between paragraphs. The posts look very "busy". Please correct the problem. Thanks. I often wonder why I say the things I shouldn't say. But then again it's always me who has to ruin your day.

The hatred expressed by many toward Israel no longer surprises me. What does shock me is the complacency of governments when the elimination of the State of Israel is discussed, including at major universities, and at the UN. The lack of response, the apathy when the elimination of a member state of the United Nations is proposed as a "solution," does shock me, and reminds me every day that the world has not learned its lessons from history.

Behind every disabled man, there are always able men. Never do anything standing that you can do sitting, or anything sitting that you can do lying down. Be not afraid of going slowly, be afraid only of standing still. Going too slow is losing a cow for the sake of a turtle. A job of a thousand posts begins with a single line.

Israel should respond military to the rockets-launching, even if this causes no casualties . If the pals are allowed to keep on launching rockets, somebody can get hurt. And at the same time the pals should be kept without electricity and fuel.

Who knows if somebody was wounded, by whom and who they were. It is funny why pals call the terrorists civilians. What a bad luck pals have. The terrorists are constantly launching rockets and when somebody gets harmed by the IDF, they always happen to be "civilians".

One should not get carried away. The peace treaty with Egypt is better than none. I was just voicing my displeasure at their "little cheatings." Thank you for your support. Best regards, Cipora

"Steve If you ignore him,then he`ll just talk to himself...Attention seekers are like that..." Come on, Kath - you can't have me all to yourself. You know you read every last post I leave on Talkback. Perhaps you're suffering some sort of discussion board equivalent of the Stockholm Syndrome.. (;-) CF

Thus far, planes are not falling out of the sky, but it is only due to the blockade on Gaza, the one that so many consider to be the height of immorality in world affairs. I can assure you that if Gaza were free to import weapons, Hamas and the other terror groups would not hesitate one instant in their avowed aim to eliminate the Jewish state. Let me also remind you that the barrage of Qassams has been ongoing for years now, and although you might not be impressed with their ability to kill, I doubt that any American government would put up with similar threats to its population. Please ponder the general reactions to acts of terror in the West.

Does there need to be some horrible fatal incident such as school children being killed by quassam rockets before Israel finally decides to go into Gaza and clean it up? What is Israel waiting for? Every day Hammas grows stronger with more deadly weapons - isn't waiting now just a way to assure more Israeli casualties later? Gaza must be struck now. Give the civilians a warning and then re-take this hell-hole that is like a dagger in Israel's heart!!

You are essentially right. The only question is whether the patient will survive the cure.

I do not believe that this has anything to do with Iran. This has much more to do with the decades old Arab policy toward Israel whereby even in a country with which Israel has a peace treatty, anti-Jewish and anti-Israeli propaganda is fed to the masses on a ragular basis. It is in no way different than what the old Europeans did to distract their populations from all kinds of internal problems. Nor should one forget that there is a strong religious componenet to this conflict, one which people would like to sweep under the rug, and could do so as long as Arab nationalism was the flavour of the day.

Uzi Just get down to Olmert's house and with a loud speaker and a large group to shout it from the rooftops,tell him what an idiot he is being when we ordinary citizens know the Egyptians have been behind the whole atrocities committed by Hamas Fatah ,the tunnels the katushyas and everthing thrown at Israel comes directly from that side.And it has been going on for years.Even people here say is DO IT! DO IT NOW!And they are right.But who listens to them?They a voice crying in the wilderness,this being just cyberspace.

Paul Are you feeling well? Is anything the matter with you,or eye sight? You didn't make it clear who exactly you were refering.Zedek,& 5 kings? What on earth were you talking about...

Fortuna I am allways so embarrassed when my posts come out and see the missing letters,etc. Sorry to say,I am a very careless with my typing,and continue regardless. My apologies which I know you will not care one way or another. To encourage Cipora?All the time!Not that she needs me,for she is an incredibly intelligent and worthy respondent who's views are ballanced,articulate and she knows how highly I think of her.One of my favourites for sure. I also like our Klaudia who cannot visit us often enough.Very piquant and rightist views she possesses and I love. Sorry Fortuna I went a bit on a tangent. Bunena Fortuna y Salud

They,should be preaching about yehoshua's victories etc.This is proof,that they are contrary to the:LAW!For they don't understand it.

Hamas,is reading the seper yehoshua!They are reacting in the fear(mora,kath)of adonai zedek, king of Jerusalem etc.For their neighbors,made a peace treaty with Israel,therefore,zedek called upon 5 other kings etc.And they were all destroyed,in one day!

"Israel is feeling no pain." What BS! The country was built by Holocaust survivors who knew nothing but pain and since 1948 the Arabs have done their level best to ensure there is no peace. "Sporadic rocket launches from Gaza!" More misinformation. According to independent sources, the "sporadic Qassams" you refer to exceeded 1000+ in 2006 and in September alone a total of 39 rockets and 51 mortars have been launched. Hardly "sporadic." So "Israel is not motivated to make peace and has nothing to gain?" What an asinine statement among many you make on a regular basis. Israel would like nothing more than to get the Arabs off their backs, once and for all. They could then develop their infrastructure, education, technology and live normal lives instead of having to constantly defend themselves. Israel has everything to gain by making peace however, the Arabs have proved time and again they are an untrustworthy and unworthy partner. As expected, you write unsubstantiated nonsense.

What peace process would that be Tosefta. Abbass is still asking concessions which are the very same ones which have not changed an iota.Are not,should not,be on the table.And I hope Olmert stands by his principles. Whether you approve or not who is running the country? Firstly I discard Saudi Arabia,further not likely to take account of Syria the treacherous State.With its tarnished reputation and the company they keep.Videlicet: Hizbullah,and Iran.Who would accept either.One a Wahhabi fundemental Sunnis,the other a terrorist proxy(Syria).Give us a break. P/S I did like the one to Jasmine plus to me. Hey Tossi my image of you is like this:You wear a goaty beard,rimless glasess,bending over the keyboard,even smoking a cigar?Funny we do not know how we view one another.I'll bet the "goaty beard" is correct??

Why wait for this criminal gang to fire rockets at Israel.Now is the time to send them back to the stoneage where they belong.Bomb the Hamas institutions and infrastructure without hestitation or restpite until the people of Israel can live in peace and security.

"can peace and the land grab go together?" ravi still AVOIDS answering my point - PLO's original charter CLEARLY stated WB and Gaza were NOT palestinian lands and were of NO INTEREST to the PLO. Care to explain why before using the repetitious "land grab" mantra? "the problem is israel has to make peace with..the egyptian people..something israel has not bothered to do." A "real" winner here! Did YOUR revisionist history calendar register 1979 as a leap year? As in skipping all that happened in that year? Israel has the right NOT to make peace with any group that denies its right to exist.

A two-state solution would not be such a worst possible scenario. The advantages to such a solution are too numerous to state here. What people also don't realize is that in becoming a state Palestinians will have to start acting like one and assume responsibility for their actions and be accountable for failures to keep agreements. No one can blame Hamas for breaking agreements because they have not signed any, and under the guise of their platform launching Katyushas is permitted to be seen as an act of resistance and not an act of war that it is. However, it would give me a lot more satisfaction to see some quiet around here than to, say, see the UN condemn the State of Palestine for breaching a peace agreement or failing to uphold resolutions. It is easier as you say to deal with a state than with a non authoritative Palestinian authority. Syria and Iran would be in dire straits trying to make claims against us as well if that came to pass. Regards

While it is true that there has been a hiatus of a kind in Israel for a while, during which the acute pain was less widely spread and immediate than in the days of the suicide bombers in all our cities. But our pain is internatlized, not forgotten. The scars are national, familial, personal. Hence the horrendous road-blocks, the stiff-necked IDF, the blind attitude to the settlements. Even the bitter rabid talk-backs on the internet are a symptom of those bitter painful memories. Youmay choose to ignore what I am trying to put across, because your attitudes are biased, standardirized.

AND EVERY DAY MADAM. If you call sporadic then I suggest you go and moveover at Sderot and perhaps will be convinced you are as usual deluded. you found a good one with Esther eh?Not surprised.You sneaky ones find the ones who are a "soft touch".You Durson cannot deceive many of us,even Esther most probably would not,but she will not admit it to you.She is after all an Israeli and a Jew...

Your analogy to Korea would be equivalent a DMZ on the China border. China might object.

Thank you for soberly put some brakes to TripleJump's bs. The blockade doesn't work when it come to arms smuggling. I wonder why? Are all weapons smuggled from Egypt? Via tunnels? Do some slip via sea, the IDF's blockade?

Jane hello They are not a state or country,if ever! a terror entity.No surprise.Their only aim(at least during the past few weeks)with the a further accelleration of their kassams attacking our towns,may have to do with the upcoming Conference in the US and are just fluffing up their feathers even more. That we cannot tolerate the continuing of attacks on our towns causing untold suffering of our citizens is becoming too much to bear and dithering Olmert is standing still....

for encouraging the good guys to remain steadfast in this antisemitic tsunami at Haaretz. Thank you for encouraging Cipora, one of the brightest and most determined. It's good to recognize one another, and give each other strength. Fortuna Benmayor.

"how can they [Abbas, Haniyeh] proceed when they disagree,and are killing each other on the weekly basis..." - Kath It becomes easier to proceed if, instead of Israel telling Abbas that if he starts negotiating with Hamas all the peace process will come to an immediate end, Israel tells him that he SHOULD try to mend fences with Hamas, and that Israel will help in making it easy. The Arab countries, including Saudi Arabia, is recommending that the Good [Abbas] and the Bad [Haniyeh] mend the breach. Even Syria says this. But the Stupid [Olmert] has more influence now and prevents it.

Yonatan They are a terror entity and have not a country or state if ever.Whether you call it a "blockade"or tripplejump calls is "occupied" matters not because it is all irrelevant. The Palis be it Fatah or Haniyeh's Gaza are both just entities like Hassan is in Lebanon.Even then the comparison is not applicable to the Palis for sure... Am not correcting it you,just made an addendum.

Humph!! Not even a starlet.

Fortuna You are spot on.It is up to the dithering Olmert,to do more and bend backwards to try and pacify the ones who are manipulating the whole business.If they don't do naw,as you say the damage control will beeven more unattainable.. Pour L'amour de dieu!

harry You are right,and we have become innured. The hateful respondents are here as usual, and seem to increase by the day.Blame Haaretz,not us some of the GOOD ONES.

You are correct. Perhaps it would be more accurate if I said that Israel does not hunger for peace because Israel is feeling no pain. In other words, the sporadic rocket launches from Gaza which have killed less than 20 people in 7 years are a small price to pay for continued west bank expansion. Israel is not motivated to make peace because they have nothing to gain and much to lose. Actually, it is quite understandable that Israel would feel this way, but it has to end some day. The sooner that Israel has something to gain by peace, the sooner we will have a peace.

Howdy Ravi; "not making peace is not an option for israel." Why not? There are plenty of other options including ceasefires, armistices, continuing the status quo, increased military action, etc. "the problem is israel has to make peace with the palistinian people....the egyptian people... something israel has not bothered to do." That sentence would make more sense if you had left the Egyptians out of it (there already is an Israeli-Egyptian peace treaty). Yes, Israel will have to come to a peace agreement with the Palestinians seeing as how Jordan and Egypt dropped their claims in the Territories and there's no one else to talk to. Israel has tried several times to come to a peace agreement with the Palestinians, but the Palestinians keep tossing in non-negotiable demands whose acceptance by Israel would be worse for her than just continuing with the status quo. "the settlements are an example.... can peace and the land grab go together?" That depends on the border.

Okay Tosefta If as you suggest hamas controls gaza and there is only one address,and Haniyeh wants a unity goeverenment through the auspices of Abass presumably how can they proceed when they disagree,and are killing each other on the weekly basis...

At least it wasn't worn out. Keep trying.

Hamas took over in Gaza in order to forward their singular agenda item of continuing to attack Israel. Of course they are in full control of smuggling, shooting, attempting to infiltrate and all the rest. What did you think they would do? Feed their people and build a civil society? Terrorists know how do do only one thing and that is to kill and destroy. They don't have a clue about building or doing anything positive.

ClickDick,I am sure that your dear friends the muslims somewhere in England right now planning to blow a couple English asses off the face of this earth or blow up a couple buses or worst blow up some planes in flight. You think we should celebrate like you, idiot??

No, my dear friends its not the hammas terrorists that are in charge of smuggling hundreds of tons lethal weapons to the Gaza strip. Its our "dear friend" in peace Mr. Egypt himself , Mubarak. Without him there would be not one single bullet in Gaza. Please all of you go and thank him in person, by e-mail, snail mail or whatever means. He is your main man. Where is the Israeli government? Afraid to make noise, afraid to tell him to shape up? What a joke (a bad joke) this so called government.

The thing is, that I don't owe you any declarations, nor do I need to spell out my political views to you or anyone each time I open my mouth. I can just envision you being introduced to someone in a pub - do you says" Now let me hear what you think of the Mideast situation - and if you want to be my buddy you'd better think like I do." How ridiculous you are. I think I have made my views quite clear over time - you are so locked in your pre-mis-conceptions that you can't actually think for yourself.

You fail to distinguish between "occupation" and "blockade". True, there is a sea and air blockade of the hostile entity called Gaza.

These qualities may have been possessed by many Jews, but they are not the reasons we survived. The reasons Jews and Judaism survived were the discriminatrion you mentioned, Christian anti-Semitism, dhimmitude in Muslim countries and other factors.

Steve If you ignore him,then he'll just talk to himself...Attention seekers are like that...

Gaza was always a jail---The Egypt kept the Gazan's locked up---The Brits had them under lock and key---Now that Gaza controls itself, they have jailed themselves by their violent actions---Don't you read or comprehend, they dug tunnels to smuggle the arms---Egyptians turned a blind eye (probably for bakshees) and allowed they to smuggle---Education, for goodness sake, their children are failing math-- Please put down that hookah, it's effecting what remains of your mind---Katyusha's aren't smuggles, they make they on the spot, with electricity stupidly furnished them by Israel--

Ever read 1984 or see the movie?? Tosefta is like those low level party members working at the ministry of truth, erasing and changing history every day in order to better control the presnt and the future.he always changes his tune, and often just lies about what he has said in the past, this has been noticed by many posters here.When he is exposed he reacts like a vicious coward.Keep up the good work.

Cipora The peace with Egypt is not worth the paper it is written on,and the filtering of arms to the Palis from Sinai/Egypt has been an ongoing affair foe at least 7 rears if not longer. Do we trust them?you and I do not,but our leader seem to be once again sleeping on the job.Cipora,there will neve be any peace with the Arabs surrounding our tiny land. I find it galling at the glee shown by the demonically thinking Clickfool. What makes people like him(including some others)to respond in such manner?I think I know,bysowing his glee he tinks and probably will get recognition and expects replies.Fool?yes Fear not,the IDF will carry on and hopefully end this...

At medaberet loa-zit yafeh meod, yefeh motek yefeh!!!

Let them bear arms and bear the consequences of using them--- My, you're so brave, with the guts of others I can hardly believe it.---However, when it comes to fulfilling your own vow of being a human shield, you've got the spine of a jellyfish...

What many fail to realise is that even in the worst case scenario a two state solution will provide Israel with the means of more effective conflict management with the palestinians.israels diplomatic legal political and propoganda postion will be greatly enhanced.The State of palestine breaching legally binding treaties will find itself in a radically altered universe than they are now. Many people forget that israel got one whole month to whack lebanon in large part because her firends could make a powerful argument for israels right to self defense because international law was on israels side.Most here just dont grasp the big picture and understand how international law and politics play into military conflicts.it seems jews are totaly oblivious to these facts.The arabs know but the Jews dont seem to get the picture.Regards as usual.Keep up the good work!!

Sand is soft, they can easily dig new tunnels even if the old ones are filled... Paving it over, how deep would the paving go and who says the can't start a new tunnel where the paving ends off??

yesterday it was said that there was no damage....thankyou to haaretz for posting my response yesterday to the katusha and mortar attack as i made it clear that there was damage!! DID THE BUILDING ONLY FALL OVER THIS MORNING?? I THINK NOT!!!! now we just need the idf and reporters to report about the amount of kasaam and mortars actualy fired from gaza as the final amount reported is far from the truth!!!ISRAELS GOVERNMENT NEEDS TO STOP HIDING THE TRUTH FROM ITS CIVILIANS!!!

About once a month there is a report in Haaretz about smuggling into Gaza. If one were to believe all of every one of them, Gaza is a giant ammo dump and the next shell or IDF bomb would set off secondary explosions enough to light up the sky in Tel Aviv for months. According to these reports, there are thousands of Katuskas and SAMs in Gaza, along with hundreds of thousands of Iranian IEDs and EPDs and russian anti-tank missiles. Yet the IDF makes incursions all the time and bombs at will, The IAF planes aren't falling out of the sky and IDF armor is not being destroyed as the Germans' armor was at Kursk. It is time to acknowledge that some smuggling does go on. But, nowhere near to the extent of these reports.

We Jews are great at draining swamps, Ravi, half the land was swamps before we dried them up, remember? But it takes two to drain the swamp of hatred, Ravi. Better get out the pumps on the Arab side as well, as they are creating more muck by the hour than we Israelis could in a decade. Oh and by the way, I?m not the one ordering the IDF bulldozers out, so please don?t appeal to me. And you are not the one ordering the rocket launchers out either, though I imagine you would really like to do that and more. However, I suggest that from where you are you take a careful look at who is going to make peace and who is going to be deeply disappointed when we do. A lot of Palestinians and Israelis will be pleased, and you will be very dissatisfied because nobody will be dying any more on either side, and you'll have to find another outlet for all your aggressive talk.

The 1967 ceasefire and unconditional surrender of occupation (Egypt) forces in Gaza has terminated and been replaced by a new occupation force (Hamas) that has overthrown the government (PA) and attacked Israel. Open warefare is underway (Gaza shooting into Israel, Israel shooting into Gaza), so post-warfare "occupation" rules you try to quote don't apply. Israel is entitled to cut off the Hamas aggressor (as defined by both the PA and UN) enemy force's lines of supply in the way I have proposed. Civilians may be temporarily removed for their own safety by creation of closed military zones, pending a permanent political solution. Where do you think the Korean DMZ came from? Given their obvious poor performance on the Gaza border, Israel owes NOTHING to EU public opinion. Rather, EU, which applauded Lebanon's leveling of Nahr el-Bard "refugee camp" to stop rocket firing into Tripoli, now owes Israel exactly the same consideration to stop Gaza rockets at Sderot using the same methods.

"Such a clever boy"... But the phrase is one only you made up. Nobody else. Tell me how long has believing the make-believe been a part of your condition? Your poor boy..... There is decent help available thru the NHS. Or are they too just a figment of your imagination? Or can't you remember? jeez, this is getting too hard.

daily military incursions. What sort of free-Gaza is this? what sort of borders are these? GAZA IS A LARGE JAIL WHERE THREE MILLION INDIVIDULS ARE HELD AND PUNISHED ON A DAILY BASIS.

You two terror-loving scumbags are probably writing from the safety of your hut, eging the Palestinians to kill jews for whatever reason. The fact remians that the Palestinian people suffer for their leader's mistakes. Hamas will never do anything good for these people...only bring death and misery. The law is actually on Israel's side. The whole worl, including most Arab states understand this, yet you two fools do not. I feel sorry for people like you becuase you will never understand what truth and freedom is. Palestinians have been used as pawns for the Arab world in Gaza and the WB and they still cannot figure it out.

Egypt flirts with the powerful guy in the street, Iran, to assure it's influence once Iran dominates the Arab world completely. And it does so at Israel's expense, which is seen by Egypt as less powerful than Iran. So it is doing Iran's dictates. Arabs conceive "peace" with Israel as a truce that doesn't rule out proxies. That is what the Arab League offers us. The alternative is direct confrontation. I sincerely don't know which one is better for Israel.

The use of the word "smuggling" to describe the supply of weapons to one side in this struggle suggests that some fundamentals of the situation have been forgotten. The side that is supposedly "smuggling" arms is poor, weak, and its territory has been illegally occupied for decades. The other side gets vast quantities of arms supplied by the "only super-power", with hardly ever a mention of what must be shiploads and aircraft-loads of weapons pouring in.

Natallie, you've never ever got it wrong to this extent before! If it weren't for all the pain that has been ceaselessly inflicted upon the population of Israel, from the days of the fedayin to Hamas, and all their likes in between, the whole Israeli-Palestine scene would have been totally different today. Can't you understnd that?!

you wrote-----"Perhaps you should get together with Labarse do discuss ex South Africans. He refers to us as apartheid supporters aka racists " I am not confused.Where in your post/s did you take up my many many requests to debunk my assertion. Again, Do you condemn the Apartheid State of South Africa and do you condemn the Illegal Settlement Expansion and Apartheid policies of the Israeli government in the occupied territories. If you are a humanist and not a racist, then here is your opportunity to dispel any confusion.Ball is in your court.

What's so surprising? What did you think Hamas would do once in control of Gaza, to turn it into a Middle Eastern Finland. This is Hamastan, and it's yards away from Israel. Better sweep it soon, before Hamas consolidates even more with Iranian missiles capable of reaching Ashdod, Tel Aviv and Jerusalem.

"And a good morra to you ,Clickfool." How I miss the camaraderie and earthiness of fools in arms as they battle the zionist enemy within and without (I hear english academics wanted to boycott israelis in britain and across the world; until they were told to pull their heads in...). In this hate-filled, anti-semitic and cynical forum, how refreshing to see real brotherhood and belonging stubbornly pushing up from under the slime of slander and abuse. You and CluckFool are a real team and we on the forum should better appreciate the confluence of the rat and the fool: whose progeny shall inherit the earth. Squeak, squeak. Cluck.

How long citizens of Israel wiil tolerate the situation when Hamas fires rockets toward Israel practically every day?

Nothing devious about Haamas's arms buildup through smuggling and against all agreemets signed between Israel and the Palestinians, huh Clickarse? All above board and kosher, just like the millions paid out in cash fro a suitcase. And these are your heroes. Says loads more about you than it does about them - they are nothing but (in the true sense of the word) terrorists.

Are there any articles that apply to the Palestinians launching rockets at Israel from Gaza on a daily basis? If not why not?

"was I just reading too much into your self-congratulatory prose?" If we're talking about self-congratulatory posts, Star of David, I would defer to you every time. "Such a clever boy"... Am I right or am I right that your mum told you this every time she saw you?

Hamas is mobilizing the children as we speak to stand in the front lines facing in the advancing Israeli troops, all throwing rocks and stones while his brave, masked, warriors shoot fron behind them, shooting some kids in the back along the way (small price to pay, heh Labarse?).

Perhaps you should get together with Labarse do discuss ex South Africans. He refers to us as apartheid supporters aka racists and you refer to us as "humanists" - are we succeeding in confusing you both or are you both just naturally ignorant and confused racists?

Is this the same peace process that hamas is intent on destroying? That defeat of commonsense that Arafat never failed to snatch from the jaws of victory for the common good? It is difficult to follow your self-harming logic. And the big heat in CA is now long past.....

I believe the things you mentioned are being worked out. Exchange of land of equal value,all that good stuff. But, I also believe one needs to be more supportive of the process.

"Sadly, we should expect to see Israel`s typical devious response to such developments." Why do you only hint at blaming the Mossad and its diabolical leaders? Just come right out and say it. You've done it countless times before. Are you perhaps afraid that the long, evil arm of the Mossad stretches all the way to Sussex? No proof is ever offered, and none is necessary. Just make up a convoluted story, blame the Jews and be done with it.

Never fail to rise to the bait!! You do have a large ego......:) Sorry, cock. But you've run that "wasn't me" line a little too often. PS Do you really believe your writing is something special, or was I just reading too much into your self-congratulatory prose?

a spark of reason still lives in israel! but dont ignore the swamp of hatred israel has created , particularly over the last 25 years.... israel filled it... now get down to draining it...... and for heaven sake dont use the idf/ bulldozers/ et all to try and do the job

when was the first sucide bomber?... when did hamas come into existance? the sucide bomber is an affirmation of despair.... dont feed it with your bulldozers/f-16s/tanks/

not making peace is not an option for israel. the problem is israel has to make peace with the palistinian people....the egyptian people... something israel has not bothered to do. the settlements are an example.... can peace and the land grab go together? figure it out.

"From `a little cheat` before the hagim to `Hamas actually CONTROLS Gaza` after the hagim: quite a conversion." - Jasmine From "little cheat" on the part of EGYPT in its BORDER control agreement with Israel, to HAMAS controlling GAZA. Are you getting confused by the different actors and different issues involved? Better make a list and try to memorize it. And don't write posts will all that Jazz music booming in your ears.

jews survived 2000 years of hardship, discrimination, the holocaust because of their humanity and wisdom..... qualities israel seems to have jettisoned, particularly since the last 25 years or so... example the "searing defeat on the pali mind" policy. maybe its the american embrace which squeezed the wisdom out of israel

Even for a morally bankrupt nitwit like you, hoping that Hamas has more sophisticated weapons to randomly use against Israel is absolute evidence of what a pitiful excuse for a human being you really are. You are a disgrace to the UK and Sussex in particular.

From 'a little cheat' before the hagim to 'Hamas actually CONTROLS Gaza' after the hagim: quite a conversion.

The bad thing, from Israel's point of view, is that Hamas controls Gaza and has increased weapons smuggling to historically high levels. The good thing, from Israel's point of view, is that Hamas actually CONTROLS Gaza. There is one address in Gaza; Israel can deals with Hamas alone and does not need to chase after the smaller terror groups. The stupid thing, from Israel's point of view, is to keep Hamas out of the peace discussions. After all, Hamas is not going away, and has shown itself to be a competent organization. Hamas also WANTS to form a Unity Government with Fatah and allow Abbas to negotiate peace with Israel, followed by a referendum. One could call the Israeli policy towards Hamas the stupidest policy Israel has adopted since Shamir undermined the Peres initiative on a Federation between Jordan and the Palestinians. Olmert is an admirer of Shamir (and one of the very few admirers that Blockhead has ever had). Let us all pray.

As in Northern Ireland, it is commonly understood that any peace agreement is going to be breached at first by extremists on both sides. There will be pockets of resistance and total quiet will not come at the signing of a piece of paper. It will take time. However, the moderate majority must be the ones to overcome those extremists and forge ahead. The question to be asked here is not whether it is worth signing peace agreements because the extremists will break them anyway, but how can a peace agreement take the wind out of the sails of the extremists. There are Hamas extremists bent on terrorism. A peace agreement would undermine everything they stand for and would be the first step in crumbling their foundations as well as accomplishing other long term goals in the entire region that Israel needs to consider. Those goals will not be met without solving the Palestinian Israeli conflict first. For that reason I say let?s go for it. www.onemillionvoices.org

Everyone you hate comes from South Africa, I see. Well, that makes them easy to identify at least. Nobody ever said you were sane.

Clickfool and others,check harrise,s, (the real yellow streak)Location and times of posts below.Also note he is offering to share his own humble pie.If he wanted Paul Harris to dissappear then lets help him,and he can take Hardmandate with him.see below. APOLOGIES REQUIRED FROM NUMEROUS POSTERS Name: paul harris City: tel aviv State: THERE ARE AVAILABLE FOR IMMEDIATE DDESPATCH HUMBLE PIES FOR NAMES LIKE CLICKFOOL ,JOHNBOY, MARK LINCOLN, ETC PLEASE PROVIDE ADDRESSES FOR DELIVERY ! this at 08.31 on monday 08/10/07 SIVIENNE ISRAEL HAS AGIANT TRENCHING MACHINE LYING IDLE Name: paul harris City: belfast State: IF THIS MACHINE HAD DUG A TRENCH FROM THE RED SEA TO THE EDGE OF GAZA ABUTTING ISRAEL AND IT FILLED WITH SEA WATER THIS WOULD HAVE STOPPED THE SMUGGLING TUNNELS 10 YEARS AGO ! This at 10.45 on 08/10/07 An insight into to a deranged and untidy mind.

Do you think that the children of Sderot get around in tanks? I know that suicide bombers are admired by people like you so I don't expect any understanding of what I'm talking about.

Theyre all turning out to crow. Dutch- fool and all.

your friend has to be very careful what he writes from now on as the fuzz will be picking him up otherwise ! what a waste it will be when israel blows the strip apart !

"..only a matter of time before mubarak is pushed out.." To recap her FANTASTIC track records : - Abbas has fallen flat on his face with Russia (status of terrorists PUBLICLY downgraded by Russia/Norway, internationally isolated and cooped up in the hell hole they created) - Hamas is in charge and yes Gaza continues to be safe,clean and GREEN! (not to mention blue-black injuries and bloody-red bullet holes inflicted on civilians, including a kid) - American dominance(and israeli) in the ME is over (hams leaders wave white flag, wants talks with Israel; Europe on board with US over possible military actions against iran) - Hamas take their muslim faith seriously (including murdering civilians and smuggling arms for more murders) Anyone wish to place bets on her latest scam?

Pain has a way of focusing your mind on the cause and the cure. Without pain, there is no focus and little motivation. Israel has inflicted pain upon the Palestinians for some time now. Perhaps this will be corrected in the near future and the peace process will see a new vitalization. Sadly, there is no other path that has shown any promise.

As reported by NYT (no friend of Israel) on the arms trade and rampant corruption in gaza : A Rafah smuggler said that hamas terrorists DEMAND their FREE share of nitrate (a component used in explosives), TAKING a third of a shipment. They then RESELL to other terrorist groups. Not so clean or different from fatah after all.

PeterSM wrote----"HAMAS wants a confrontation with their child martyrs out front".Then they have the hide to talk about honor. And you and your,s will watch it from far far away.How brave you are Peter. Down under, "COVER".

Interesting to see that you've resumed posting, "Paul Harris". Is this an attempt to persuade folk that you aren't the mad "Victor Hardman", who claims to post from Belfast.

And a good morra to you ,Clickfool. It is good news indeed to see that the Palestinian People are finding a means to defend themselves against their oppressors.I would of course prefer a peaceful resolution but given Israel,s historical propensity for needing and indeed creating "Non Partners in Peace" this latest farce is not going anywhere. So why should Hamas not prepare for the inevitable ongonig incursions and arrests and child killing etc etc by Israel. Abbas should also be thinking ahead, if he lives so long. Regards

Another Self hating Humanist "Jewish" South African Expatriate raises its ugly head.

There is a point to the so called peace agreements as they do make the Leftist Humanist Assimilated Jews feel some sort of vindication. Never mind that these so called peace treaties are killing Jews and Israelis. They are still not satisfied and clamor for more and they want the Orthodox to disappear as they are cramping their self hating genocidal style and they want a large porion of the ancient homeland to be given away so that those so called peace treaties can finally eliminate the only Jewish state. All in the name of HUMANISM. These Humanist assimilated Jews see the damage that they are doing but like a drug addict continue with their ways just to please their Leftist Internationalist HUMANIST COMPATRIOTS. The Arab Genocidal Apologists and the Anti semites I can understand and write it off to upringing and environment but these Self Hating assimilated Humanist Jews I LOATH and DESPISE.

""Sadly, we should expect to see Israel`s typical devious response to such developments." Still on the same boring line, mate?" It wasn't me, me old fruit... Really crappy writing - was it one of yours?

Oy! Please, pretty please, folks - don't ever believe I could write a line as bad as that......

Sorry, "Israeli", you think that non-combatants are to be found in tanks? Or maybe in combat aircraft? You write " ... someone who encourages wholesale murder of non-combatants on a day to day basis is ... clearly psychotic." OK, what's your opinion of the Zionists on these talkbacks who advocate wholesale killing of non-combatant Palestinians?

LB: "Occupy a 3km belt of Gaza" Ah, but that brings the Hague Regs into play. LB: "depopulate it completely relocating the small population North or South" Article 50 forbids it LB: "turn it into a fenced off HEAVILY FORTIFIED closed military zone" Articles 46, 47 forbid it. LB: "Egypt can reassume full control of Rafah" They aren't the occupying power under the Hague Regs, so explain why they would accept your "generous offer"? LB: "Boot out the EU 'monitors' " You really are intent on winning friends for Israel, aren't you... LB: "and restrict anything entering/leaving Gaza except on condition of good behavior by whoever is in charge of this perennial cesspool." And, back we go to Article 50. LB: "Don`t do this, and Gaza will turn into".... DO THIS, and Israel will turn into a pariah state. You are the zionist apologist par excellence, Brnd; force solves everything, and if force just isn't working, well, apply more force..

Israel voluntarily allowed this to happen with the EU monitors sitting idly by.......

also of the suitcase smuggling, in order to keep the cash-laundry industry going.... they're wily blokes indeed, even knowing how to run the economy under a fake siege...

"Sadly, we should expect to see Israel`s typical devious response to such developments." Still on the same boring line, mate? Your son must surely suffer from such a cacked-out, unimaginative and, ultimately, predictable, Father Fool. Have a good one, cobber.

Cipora,the peace conference is a non starter,because it does not have the key player there!ravi,only a matter of time before mubarak is pushed out,israel's military superiority not that significant since the others would have caught up(already have,witness the Syria escapade)and ofcourse,the quisling abbas will be gone,along with his motley crew!israel is a sinking ship,and the passengers don't even know that!

Amos has got it all wrong. Egypt is the one who is now in full control of all the arms that arrive in Gaza. Courtesy of our idiotic PM!!

Children promised heaven etc in return for martyrdom on Pal media and in their Mosques. Then they have the hide to talk about honor.

" you cant win peace with f-16s, bulldozers, tanks and daily killings". But you can win peace with daily bombing on Israeli population when you are palestinian...

"you cant win peace with f-16s, bulldozers, tanks and daily killings." But of course you can win peace with suicide bombers and daily bombing of Israeli population when you are palestinian.

"Good news indeed. Let`s hope they`ve managed to smuggle some decent anti-tank missiles into Gaza. Some Stinger anti-aircraft missiles would also be nice." Hello Clickfool, I am with you all the way! Don't forget the law is on their side too! Yet they call them terrorists. What twisted thinking from the apologists. Cheers, Dutch

I have no problem with the content, but the writing style is quite childish actually. Simply put, it is a dreary replication and I'm not quite sure what the intent of the writer was.

Where's it written that peace means you have to 'love' someone? Peace means no war. When people have this crooked idea that making peace on a compromise basis is humiliating we will never have peace. They want it all. You should tend to your own garden and tidy up your country before you criticise ours. Your people treat each other disgracefully. I don't know how you have the cheek to show your face here and give advice.

"The officers said there has been a sharp increase in the quantity of explosives, including various types of rockets, smuggled into the Gaza Strip from Egypt over the last few weeks." Good news indeed! Sadly, we should expect to see Israel's typical devious response to such developments. That would be the murder of more innocents such as the Christian book store owner yesterday. Israel is the only one who benefits from this murder. In addition, we can expect to see increased killings by "masked Palestinians" or "unknown gunmen". The victims will of course all be Palestinians! The culprit and beneficiary? Israel! ... as the Palestinians will again aim their guns at each other instead of at their common enemy.

My point exactly is if the entire Arab world hates Israel, and people will not honor signed agreements, then what is the point to signing such agreements.

"israel has no choice but to put its arrogance aside and find ways of talking to hamas.... " Didn't you know? We Jews are an arrogant and stiff-necked people, ever since the Exodus from Egypt. Which is why we survived.

To dutch # 4. perversly, you are right. let them arm as much as they can and than it is a FAIR GAME! No more winning about the israelis are killing us etc. The palestinian stre ngth was never the moral high ground. if anything their argument of being defenseless. Hamas and Hizbul. have changed the rulles - God bless Them! as for the summit in the uSA; hit gaza hard just before it starts, not later [ or never, as Condy rice wants] and get to the summit with one problem less! here is the list of those to-be pleased , and not,with such a step: YES: israel less Yosi beilin, USA, France, Germany, Italy spain[perhaps] japan and a few others.abbas, jordan, Most of lebanon, saudi NO: Iran, Syria, Egypt [screw them, and cut off USA aid], Norway, holland, UK cons. NZ and a few other dwarfs. Success means succesful summit and dont F*** around with meanigless pre declartions! wake Up Olmert

the peace agreement is between the govt of egypt and israel. has israel made peace with the egyptians? over 90% of them hate israel. can u imagine if mubarak were to go and a popular govt be installed in cairo? the same applies to the palestinians.... you can arm twist abbas to sign on the dotted line, but as long as you dont reach out to the pali people... there can be no peace. and ofcourse settlements, water stealing, jerusalem.... cant have your cake and eat it too

wha else does israel expect....? hamas has to bring in as many arms as it can. has israel lost even one chance to stamp out, throttle , kill, undermine hamas? no it has not. then dont expect hamas to sit quiet. and dont forget hamas is the legally elected representatives of the palestinians.... the us/israeli attempts to delegitimise this govt are illegal. israel has no choice but to put its arrogance aside and find ways of talking to hamas.... israel lives in a neighbourhood which is hostile ,and much much bigger, outnumbering the jewish state 50 to 1..... israel has no choice. talk of destroying the palis/arabs is rubbish. stop thinking like gw bush.... think like middle easterners, trust your wisdom and make peace. have israelis even paused to think what would happen if egypt had a popular govt? 90 plus% of egyptians abhor israel.. a state they are supposed to be at peace with! you cant win peace with f-16s, bulldozers, tanks and daily killings.

IF THIS MACHINE HAD DUG A TRENCH FROM THE RED SEA TO THE EDGE OF GAZA ABUTTING ISRAEL AND IT FILLED WITH SEA WATER THIS WOULD HAVE STOPPED THE SMUGGLING TUNNELS 10 YEARS AGO !

Hello? Anyone have a memory of 5 minutes? this is EXACTLY what people warned about. It was stupid to leave gaza and give border control to terror groups. But hey, stupidity never stopped an Israeli leader. So we can thank Olmert & Sharon for Hamas now having easy access to smuggling arms.

The enemies being, in this case, his political rivals, the Attorney-General's office and the media. As he is very patient and methodical, he may just defeat them. Rejoice, O Israel!

in which all my postings to Talkback are are published, and there are days, like today, when none, or almost none, get published, until I complain to the Talkback editor or even Amos Shocken the publisher. Today looks like one of those days. Who are you anyway, 'itonai katan sheli? ("my little newspaperman", based on a song of the '70s criticizing the low level of some Israeli newspapermen).

click idiot you are in breach of the racial and religious hatred act 2006. if you continue with this type of post it will be reported as acomplaint to the east sussex police !

A justified description of someone who encourages wholesale murder of non-combatants on a day to day basis is that he is clearly psychotic. And if you have any doubt about who I'm describing, it's you.

IDF should boot out its top echelons,but who'd do it?

what are we waiting for? each day our enemies get stronger and we get stupider/ lets bomb the hell out of them.

From the safety of Sussex you are heroicaly prepared to fight to the last Palistinian. What a pathetic loser you are looking for every scrap of news to feed your diseased mind.

Israel relinquished the Sinai, and signed a peace agreement with Egypt, yet weapons of all manner flow from Egypt into Gaza. Egypt also let into Gaza over eighty terrorists trained in Iran. One wonders whether Arabs really want peace under any conditions.

then Egyptian Rafah is in danger of becoming a strategic target for the IDF and the IAF. This should be made very clear to the Egyptians; then they mioght take more effective measures to stop the arms smuggling.

It would certainly be a big blow against the Hamas.

We ran from lebanon then what Hizbullah built a terrorist army there. We ran from gaza and guess what Hamas has buit a terrorist army there. G-D forbid our government do the same with The Shomron and Judea (west bank) The terrorists will take over there and rockets will be fired into Kfar Saba, Raanana, Petach Tikvah, Modin, Natanya, Jerusalem as well Afula and Tiberias. We MUST NEVER ALLOW THIS TO HAPPEN AND INSIST THAT JORDAN WHICH IS 78% OF MANDATE LAND WITH A POPULATION OF 75% PALESTINIAN BE THE HOMELAND FOR THE PALESTINIANS.

If so much sophisticated weaponry is freely entering Gaza from Egypt, that must say a lot about Egypt's double-faced attitude to Israel. On the one hand, they have signed a peace agreement with Israel and got all their Sinai lands back. They make a hefty profit from all the Israelis who vacation in Sinai. On the other hand, they allow all these rockets into Gaza from across their border, knowing that they will be used against Israel. How perfidious can you get?

"There has been a sharp increase in the quantity of explosives, including various types of rockets, smuggled into the Gaza Strip from Egypt over the last few weeks, say senior officers in the Israel Defense Forces." Good news indeed. Let's hope they've managed to smuggle some decent anti-tank missiles into Gaza. Some Stinger anti-aircraft missiles would also be nice.

The current border between Gaza is a mess, due to the fact that the town, Rafah, straddles the border - where 99% of the smuggling takes place. SO MOVE THE DEFACTO BORDER!! Occupy a 3km belt of Gaza in the nearly unpopulated zome North of Rafah (too wide for them to tunnel under), depopulate it completely relocating the small population North or South, and turn it into a fenced off HEAVILY FORTIFIED closed military zone (like Korean DMZ). Egypt can reassume full control of Rafah and the old Philadelphi route if they want. No Gazans live in airport district or in former settlements by coast. Easy to reclaim 3km wide empty areas as part of this new zone. Boot out the EU "monitors" and restrict anything entering/leaving Gaza except on condition of good behavior by whoever is in charge of this perennial cesspool. Don't do this, and Gaza will turn into Mogadishu/Pyongyang/Pakistan "tribal area". Forget the mad Peres fantasy that "Palestinians" were ever going to turn it into a Hong Kong.

Try to pass the Egyptian border with a single 22mm bullet in your purse. You`ll get 20 years in an Egyptian prison. But Grad type Katyushas ?As ordered, the Egyptian forces close their eyes as if an innocent Hamasnik is trying to smuggle back a pack of cigarettes.

money to bribe Egyptians to let them smuggle arms into Gaza because Israel continues to pay their bills for them. Stop supplying them Israel. Let them get their food, pharmaceuticals and fuel supplies from Egypt.

She joined SISTER RICE in the Rafah "negotiatioins" and conceeded the entire crossing to the "PA" Eu and Egypt. Remember how they laughably "negotiated" over having live Israeli video cameras. In the end the ayatollahs took control of ALL the Sinai smuggling routes as Egyptian officials took their money and looked the other way. And not a PEEP from Livni! Why??? Because if she opened her pathetic mouth it would implicate her in her KAPO acts as a TRAITOR to the state she was sworn to defend. She and SISTER Rice's experiments are the major cause of the creation of a 40,000 strong Hamas army. She was highly instrumental in Sharon's Katif Surrender and later allowing Hamas to run for elections. Instead of ever being honored with the KOL HAKAVODs she covets she should live out the rest of her life in shame for destroying in just 2 years what took her father a lifetime to build.

I believe the Palestinians and Israel haters when they say that Israel still occupies and controls Gaza and turned it into a big jail. So Hamas is locked inside and cannot smuggle even a single bullet. They invest all their money and resources on building a democratic and just society, infrastructure, education, the rule of law etc. So this must be an Israeli lie.

Silvienne, What are you talking about? The Palestinian people have every right to bear arms as much as the Israelis. In fact, the IDF arsenals are bloated and they are trying to sensationalize a few dozen or more Palestinian weapons. Please don't fall for their propaganda. It's all aimed at scaring Israelis & justify their attacks. This is routine IDF stuff IDF. Dutch

Edifice, they are waiting for that, for a calamity, they have to show the world an excuse, so they will create martyrs. Then they will come in force, and posible control Gaza again to make a fully clean up and take down Hamas, then they will hand it to Abbas in a silver plater, I think.......

I've thought up many different ways to stop the smuggling, but none have met with any approval yet from anyone, such as: pouring raw sewage down the tunnels pouring wet concrete down the tunnels putting hoses down them and filling them with water dumping tons of sand down them or: paving over the entire site next to the border.... That ought to do it.

When will the IDF take all steps needed to put an end to missile attacks from Gaza? What calamity are they waiting for?