IDF ground forces chief ousted for remarks on Olmert, Halutz

Now I'm hearing about past statements made that were supportive of the Gush Katif expulsion, so I'm wondering if the jury's not still out on the matter of personal integrity.

No, the IDF is not akin to a large company, and it is not a democracy. That's why it is subordiate to civilian leadership. One doesn't have to disagree with the substance of Ron-Tal's remarks, to take issue with his conduct. After removing his uniform and separating himself from active duty, he can and should speak out. In the US, several generals who served in Iraq criticized President Bush's Iraq policy, and some called on Rumsfeld to resign. Whether or not you agree with their opinions - they are civilians, and have a right to speak out. None of these men did so publicly while still on active duty. Ron-Tal's conduct is not reflextive of a citizen in a democracy - it reflective of a senior officer who is acting dangerously inappropriately.

Israel BADLY needs people of personal integrity at its helm, both civilian and military. Perhaps Ron Tal, or someone else with his honesty (as well as broad military knowledge, somenthing the current Chief of Staff AND Defense Minister both lack), will become the next Chief of Staff, under former Chief of Staff Moshe "Boogie" Ya'alon as Defense Minister when the current Olmert government is turned out of office by the electorate.

Blaming anyone except the Israelis electorate is an error. The current government declared its program and the voters supported them, instaleed them in office. If the fulfillment of the plan is suicidal, the responsibility still rests with the public which elected the government. The tragedy may be that the government cannot learn from its mistakes. It is confronted by an implacable foe dedicated to the destruction of Israel. Somehow it thinks that appeasement and worsening its tactical position will suffice. It only gives your foes a better launching pad for future aggression. What was accomplished by unilateral withdrawal from Lebanon and from Gaza? It provided motivation as Israel responded to coercion. So, more coercion is in order. This refusal to recognize reality is unfortunate. The consequences will be unpleasant and costly in terms of lives and material goods. Perseveration is the sign of a troubled mind.

Halutz, Peretz and Olmert should go - one does not need to be a general to see that. Their decision-making process was faulty, their hubris astounding, their cyncism unbounded. They are spin-masters, and should not be allowed to learn from their mistakes. We need to learn from their mistakes and send them home.

Natanyahu in Israel plays the part that Jews play in the world. Whatever he does is wrong and whatever any one else does he's to blame.

To all of those who claim a win,,,,, We the people have lost! the 1000 Lebanese and the 150 Israeli's. claiming a victory or trying to convince the other for a presumable wining is rather pathetic, reminding the rethorics of the Hezballah. As if small children fighting for a title unaware of the agony being created due to this desire. To all my Christians friends - We should rethink whether we want to be used by the Hezballah... We have made it really well in the last 6 years! Peace for all and leave God a side!

Ron-Tal committed one of the most serious leftist crimes of all - he told the truth ( his truth ) and thereby insulted the leftist lords and masters who rule Israel today. For this he must pay ! Crimes committed against innocents, such as pedophilia or murder, generally earn the sympathy of the courts and the media, who proceed to make a VICTIM of the PERPETRATOR ! For crimes against the state, the left shows no mercy !!

Still we hear voices praising the IDF victory and the defeat of Hizbollah. the truth is simple, objectives were to destroy Hizbollah, remove all the rocket threat, occupy the land till Litani river to create a buffer zone, etc etc... dreams dreams...... none of which was achieved. the only thing they could say is "look at Nasrallah celebrating victory over a devasatated urban area!!!" well, that's an additional loss. Israel lost the moral war. Destroyin all those civilian areas, wiping whole towns, destroyin civilian infrastructure, doesn't create victory. it only shows how inhuman Israel is, and it only affects civilians, it's mass punishment. doesnt really hurt the military forces of Hizbollah. IDF big mercava multibillion$ project was trashed, and IDF didnt even have the guts attack Beirut in fear from gettin Tel Aviv hit. IDF is messed up from within, resignations, investigations, etc... i can't understand how can we talk about Israeli victory

and you should either shape up fast or ship out...scandals on each on every level.. i wonder for how long the americans will stomach this mess before they quit on Israel...

Quote: According to Ron-Tal, the task of the disengagement harmed the army's training and its readiness for the Lebanon war. Unquote. So preparation was going on for the Lebanese War before and during the disengagement? Perhaps his words lost or gained something in translation.

If they speak in favor of the policies of the government it is welcomed. It should not be that way. Either they are not allowed to speak their opionions or they are.

It is a shame of my Army that the leadership is outsing someone from their line in spite of listening to critics. I made alya to get conscripted to the IDF but slowly as I see our impotence I started to regret it. This is one of the most sorrowful things that I got to this point.

unfortunatly the past few years only fools were runing the country.about time all wake a up from coma and new generation with wisdom take over.the last war was our leaders were blind.

"The sources said Ron-Tal was likely to join the Likud after his release." Says it all really. A talent for self-promotion he's got. These days that's all you need to be a statesman.

Gen. Ron-Tal said the IDF's extensive involvement with the disengagement from Gaza diminished its capability to fight the Lebanon war, and he described the war as a failure, and called on Halutz and his senior officers "to take responsibility and resign." No truth more clear than the above and Halutz can't silence the brave men from saying it.

Nothing new under the sun. Corrupt government officials fear those that aren't.

I am beginning to believe that Halutz is Hizbolla's secret weapon - what they didnt manage to do in the war, Halutz is doing for them by eroding the excellence of the IDF. Instead of the incompetent culprits leaving the scene the IDF are now losing top men like Udi Adam and Ron-Tal. Go home Halutz - and if Olmert and Peretz allow this blockhead to continue underming the IDF they should also take a hike. Bravo Adam and Ron-Tal - men of honour.

If this man is willing to put his job and career on the line to protect the country, then our parties should be able to sacrifice their protexia, financial deals and whatever else is holding them back in order to save the country. They think that we the voters won't remember that they propped up this failing govt., when they should have abandoned it and joined the widespread outrage on the street. I ASSUME THERE IS A WAY FOR VOTERS TO LET THEIR REPRESENTATIVES KNOW THAT THEY WONT STAND FOR THIS ANYMORE.

Another right winger politicizes his position in the army. Poor fool. Never mind that he ignores any of his own responsibility in the Lebanon war, but then he is foolish and naive enough to put his trust in Israel's least trustworthy politician, the hiding-out Netanyahu. Stay hidden, bb, because you know and we all know, the moment you surface is the moment your poll numbers go down to where they belong.

I disagree, the only way any military can work, for that matter any coorporation, and face it the IDF is one large coorporation, is if there is freedom to express points of view in order for good decission making. If you surround yourself with yes men, then you are looking at mediocraty at best, and Halutz and Olmert are indeed less!!!

How can we prepare for the next war if we don't learn the lessons of the previous one? I am not aware of any IDF employee whose job was terminated for expressing a political statement that was consistent with the views of Halutz. Yes, Halutz can fire anyone, including those who are already leaving the IDF. Big deal! Maybe it is time for the media to start hitting back by not covering public officials who play by their own rules -ie fire those who speak against them but keep those who speak for them. Either they all shut up or they all get fired for opening their mouths.

The massive incompetence of the Olmert-Peretz-Halutz leadership exemplified by the Lebanese disaster was bound to lead to revolt within the IDF, That mutiny will not be squelched by the dismissal of subordinates and will be massively reflected by the ouster of the Olmert government and its leaders.

Politics contaminate the professional standing of the IDF.With politicians like Halutz at the help,all appraisals,assignments and promotions are politically motivated.The precedent set by the appointment of Haluzt is wrong.If it is true that Halutz was elevated to carry-out the politacal task of disengaement,that lives a precedent for the next Premier to appoint a general he can manipulate for party political schemes.The army should remain neutral and its leadership and structure should be enhirited by any incoming elected government.Please! current government don't corrupt the army.This is an important national institution to be corrupted.Major General Ron-Tal is a principled soldier subjected to political victimisation.It is not the duty of any army to carry-out disengaments and convergents.There should relevant bodies or ministries to handle such trivial tasks.When does the army defend when still burdened with relocations of citizens?

Where are our leaders who stand strong before the problems begin. Why did nobody stop the disengagement. It would have only taken 100,000 in Gush Katif to stop them being kicked out of their homes. Netanyahu stood by until it was to late the religous parties stayed for their money. We need people who will look for the long term not today. He had no right to attack Halutz while in the army and could have waited a few months until he left. While i agree with him, these comments were the begining of his political career and not to help this country but to help himself.

Bravo to General Ron-Tal for telling the truth. Olmert and Halutz did mess up big time in Lebanon and both should be impeached. I wish more Israelis realized this and demanded thier resignation.

Halutz is displaying excessive defensiveness due to insecurity and poor leadership.

I think it's great that someone like this general will stand up and tell the truth about what has happened.

Israel needs a man like Ron-Tal to lead the nation. One who is capable of speaking the truth and taking a downfall for the good of the nation. Not leaders who hide behind their status and fire those who have differing views without considering the truth of those views. And while any dispute within the army is hazardous to a state, it is a little too late for that; the disengagement already destroyed the army's unifying abilities.

Ron-Tal joins a fraternity of senior IDF officers who place self-promotion and public grandstanding above their professional obligations. It is unthinkable for an active duty general in the US military to behave so irresponsibly. Ron-Tal deserves a courts-martial, not a retirement party.