IDF censures ex-battalion chief over shooting of innocent Palestinian

Check out my responses to "realism", who really isn't..He sort of makes stuff up out of thin air...In his case, it's hot air.. #24 #26 respectively. As usual, I give links or sources, unlike most of the anti-Israel writers on these boards.

Though not as many as there were before..Arab MUSLIMS have been pressuring them, extorting money, forcing them out of their shops, particulary in Bethlehem...The speak and dress like their Muslim neighbors, but, their neighbors hold them in very low regard.. I'll make it easy on you, as usual GOOGLE, "Muslim persecution of Christian Arabs".. It's not confined to Palestine, it's wherever the two religions conflict, which is everyplace the two religions reside side by side.... Check out East Timor, Muslims killed over 25% of the Christians on that Island.

...is the Christian who described the attacks an Arab Christian? This might seem like a silly question, but I honestly didn't think there were any Arab Christians, and yet his name seems Arabic. Regards

Unlike yourself, I don't fabricate fake conversations, I rely on confirmable facts..Here's the reasons Christian's have fled Bethlehem... "Jan. 25, 2007 0:00 | Updated Jan. 25, 2007 15:00 Bethlehem Christians fear neighbors By KHALED ABU TOAMEH BETHLEHEM Print Subscribe E-mail Toolbar A number of Christian families have finally decided to break their silence and talk openly about what they describe as Muslim persecution of the Christian minority in this city. The move comes as a result of increased attacks on Christians by Muslims over the past few months. The families said they wrote letters to Palestinian Authority Chairman Mahmoud Abbas, the Vatican, Church leaders and European governments complaining about the attacks, but their appeals have fallen on deaf ears. According to the families, many Christians have long been afraid to complain in public about the campaign of "intimidation" for fear of retaliation by their Muslim neighbors and being branded "collaborators" with Israel. But following an increase in attacks on Christian-owned property in the city over the past few months, some Christians are no longer afraid to talk about the ultra-sensitive issue. And they are talking openly about leaving the city. "The situation is very dangerous," said Samir Qumsiyeh, owner of the Beit Sahur-based private Al-Mahd (Nativity) TV station. "I believe that 15 years from now there will be no Christians left in Bethlehem. Then you will need a torch to find a Christian here. This is a very sad situation." Qumsiyeh, one of the few Christians willing to speak about the harsh conditions of their community, has been the subject of numerous death threats. His house was recently attacked with fire-bombs, but no one was hurt. Qumsiyeh said he has documented more than 160 incidents of attacks on Christians in the area in recent years. He said a monk was recently roughed up for trying to prevent a group of Muslim men from seizing lands owned by Christians in Beit Sahur. Thieves have targeted the homes of many Christian families and a "land mafia" has succeeded in laying its hands on vast areas of land belonging to Christians, he added.

That is a considerable stretch away from the truth, even for you. Doesn't the phrase "NOT SOLELY as a result of the difficult military and economic situation of the last two years" tell you what the principal reason for their flight is?

There are numerous articles regarding the surpression of Christian's in the Arab controlled areas...They're leaving and have left out of fear..Here's none article, want more?..all you have to do is ask.. "THE BELEAGUERED CHRISTIANS OF THE PALESTINIAN-CONTROLLED AREAS David Raab A Second-Class People / Regional Repression of Christians / Official PA Domination of Christians / PA Disrespect for Christian Holy Sites / The PA Takeover of the Church of the Nativity / The PA and Jerusalem Christians / Reduction of Christian Political Power / Harassment of Palestinian Christians by Palestinian Muslims / The Palestinian Christian Response The Christian community in the areas administered by the Palestinian Authority (PA) is a small but symbolically important one. About 35,000 Christians live in the West Bank and 3,000 in Gaza,1 representing about 1.3 percent of Palestinians. In addition, 12,500 Christians reside in eastern Jerusalem. This population is rapidly dwindling, however, and not solely as a result of the difficult military and economic situation of the past two years. Rather, there are numerous indications that the Christian population is beleaguered due to its Christianity. Taken in context of the condition of Christians in other Middle Eastern countries, this picture is especially credible and troubling. A Second-Class People Under Islam, Christians are considered dhimmi, a tolerated but second class who are afforded protection by Islam. Dhimmitude is integral to Islam; it is a "protection pact" that suspends "the [Muslim] conqueror's initial right to kill or enslave [Jews and Christians], provided they submitted themselves to pay tribute."2 However, the reality of Christianity under Islam has often been difficult. "Over the centuries, political Islam has not been too kind to the native Christian communities living under its rule.

I'm not sure which Christian exiles you spoke to, but the ones in the diaspora say they left because Israeli harassment made their life at home so difficult.

Yes, the Jews were given a "State of Their Own", however, contrary to your assertions it was the Arabs that weren't satisified..TARABS attacked the Jewish State on 5/15/48... You neglected to mention why the Bethlehem Wall was constructed..It was because the friendly Arabs were throwing rocks at the Jews that had come to visit their own holy sites..Tell it like it is and was, not the way you fantasize... You might also want to mention why most of the Christian Bethlehemites have fled, due to Muslim persecution, financial extortion and threats...

"Peace does not begin with talks among Prime Ministers or envoys in capital cities - it must begin with Hebron." We know full well what goes on in Hebron, alas, and are disgusted and ashamed. From that first fateful night 40 yrs ago that Levinger was allowed to "sleep over" in Hebron, we have raged and protested, with little result, to my chagrin. Nevertheless, neither Hebron nor TA are the complete face of Israel. (I am new to TA, only 7 yrs, while the previous 50 were in J'lem). There are wonderful and terrible things in Israel. We are a fascinating people. There have been bleak years and better years, and now we are approaching a veritable crescendo, for good or for bad. Peace begins also with prime ministers and envoys, and also with those holding the guns on both sides, and also with the man-in-the street like you and me. To declare and champion only the negative is defeat apriori, and I refuse to take part in that, not for lack of knowledge about "what goes on".

Revenge is not always sweet. The Jews have been given a state all to themselves since the events of 1929 and 1936 - and still not satisfied! There is a line written on the Separation Wall in Bethlehem..."An Eye for an Eye results in blindness."

....but I thought God told the Jews to be kind to the strangers etc. And Herzyl too....just goes to show you can't trust anyone when it comes to Israel.

I write on what I see, not what I wish to see. I was not accompanied by 'provocatuers' whatever you mean by this noun - I journeyed alone. Except to Hebron, where my guide was an ex-IDF Officer whose loyalty and patriotism is officially acknowledged by the Governement who invite him into schools and youth groups to explain the moral devastation he suffered as a result of his service in Hebron. he still suffers from PTSD as a result. I was not 'seeking evidence'; my opinions are not 'fixed' as you claim (your evidence for this allegation?) but are formed from listening to ordinary folk at bus-stops, cafes, in shops, and listening to Police and IBP individually. If you really do live in TA then take a visit to Hebron and see for yourself what is done in the name of Israel and Judaism. Then come back, post, and tell me what you saw was fine. Peace does not begin with talks among Prime Ministers or envoys in capital cities - it must begin with Hebron.

with so many israeli politicans , settlers and apologists trying so hard to rewind the calendar by a mere 2000 years ,such treatement of Pals is only fitting. Didnt "God" say go take their land, kill them and their animals, burn their houses and claim all can claim to be promised to you ...

Don Camillo, not knowing exactly what your pi-point experiences were, and what provocateurs may have been accompanying you, it is difficult to comment on your butt-end experiences. Were you perhaps prejudiced a priori, and seeking for evidence to back up your fixed opinions? However, when improvement is apparent in IDF policy and behaviour, we ourselves are more than glad to acknowledge it.

"The Israel Defense Forces formally censured Friday a former battalion chief who commanded the soldiers who hijacked a Palestinian taxi and seriously wounded a Palestinian civilian near Hebron last week." Ouch! The wrist of that batallion commander will really be stinging after that smacking.

Is this not what they've been trained to do since 1967 and is the only thing they are good at nowadays? They should be given medals!

Definitely censure the IDF-afterall, I'm sure that they were just being plain nasty! Now, the palis have no such problem-they can take out anyone they want, cut off a head or two, crush some children's skulls, you know, little things like that. The most important thing is to be nice & politically correct.

Shalom friend, I hope that these guys get the book thrown at them. Morally reprehensible and total lack of miliary honor. disciplinf and the oft touted IDF purity of arms credo. About 5o years hense...things not looking too good on that score either. Iraq in total meltdown Bush pathetically trying to filibuster the Aziz Brothers Inc into funding some sort of Right of return charade, and the isaelis just saying yes anything to get this on track. A track to nowhere. I have come to believe that the real road is for the Israelis to understand that they are out on a limb that is in the process of being sawed off by Bush on the one hand, and their own shortsighted behavior towards their potential allies, the Palestinians. We need them more than they need us, And that's a fact.

Hello Ben: Have you read the recent Haaretz article about the two Hebron settlers living on an illegal outpost who leapt on top of a UN vehicle and smashed the windscreen? The UN personnel are forbidden to retaliate and so continued to drive very slowly until the settler got off. When the Isaeli police arrived they said they knew the offender from previous assaults. I hope they put him in jail. It is incidents like that which give settlers a bad name to the outside world. Regards

Hebron settlers have returned to the homes that the Arabs chased them from in 1929 & 1936, during the Hebron riots...Arabs stole their homes, business' and possesions, aside from raping the women....Settlers are reclaiming what's rightfully theirs... I heartily sugeest suggest you Google the facts about the Hebron riots.

Jews are under attack in Sderot

The Hebron settlers should be told that in the very near future they will be under the Authority of the Palestinians Government. If these people expressed their love for Hebron, then they should become Palestinians Jews, just as Israeli Arabs in ISRAEL. In case they do not like to stay behind, then they should apply to go back to Israel Proper. For the time being their sellements should be patrolled by a joint team of Israeli/Palestinians POLICE.I am sure, that this will solve all the existing problems.

If it is appropriate to censure an Austrian president for belonging to a unit that committed war crimes, why not an Israeli colonel?

If you think it is kosher for the IDF to act that way, why do you criticize the Brits?

Please SIR keep up the good name of our army. Having someone like you in the IDF is a pleasure, especially when it come to honesty and real Discipline. May you one day lead the IDF. Keep up the good work and let us all hope that others WILL follow your good examples. GoodLuck

This lax and lenient let-off does not surprise me - having been at the butt-end of Israeli Border Guard yobs masquerading as professional militia, it is patently obvious that Israeli soldiers and others in uniform and given weapons, are driven and become intoxicated by power. And the command structure has little appetitie to change this. 'Censure' means nothing and nor is this step meant to. it is a signal to carry on humiliating and putting fear into the indifenous population. No wonder so many soldiers and officiers who have had to serve in Hebron suffer from PTSD and seek help in 'Breaking The Silence'. And the Army High Command routinely ignore High Court orders to reopen roads and lift restrictions. Israeli society is in moral meltdown. Will Israel be there n 50 years?

Such probes and censures were never carried out during the previous command of the IDF in the Hebron area. Now one can hope for a message of deterrance, not false encouragement for the fanatics. So something is changing for the better.

peeking over their shoulders" No,not an Israeli colonel,but a Brit one,after British soldiers aquitted by a Brit court of torturing 5 Iraqis to death last year. No censuring. Shown on the BBC. Just an info for Clickfool&Co who'll start their usual howling now.