High Court reissues order for IDF to raze wall near Hebron

1) It's only "old" because they kept not publishing the posts. 2) 191-4 are the posts 3) 195 They published the complaint even as they finally published the text 4) I notice you didn't seem to read 191-4 and didn't respond to them. Awaiting to see if you will read them and provide your first rational argument. I won't expect much, but I'll wait.

It could also be because this Talkback is now old..I think Haaretz stop posting to it after a while...come into the newer ones where Eric and I are now. Regards

Too much truth if it doesn't follow the far left line. I keep reposting, maybe the censorship will stop.

"which is that its not bound by the treaties", that's right. So what? Israel, unlike Pakistan, Korea, Iraq & Iran, never signed the NNPT, so it's not violating any treaties. Do you have a real point? "uninformed supposition; or blatant denial of truth." I've quoted and given url's for direct statements from Iran's leaders. Eric can't refute them, so he gives an opinion piece that agrees with him, doesn't dispute the quotes, just tries to claim they don't mean what they mean. Yet he claims I'm denying the truth. Sad. "dave`s implication that all muslim leaders..." I've never made such an implication, he can't prove it, he can only lie. Your denial remains strong and you keep projecting your sad little mind set onto others. Well, since you avoid facts, that does kind of make sense. Sad puppy...

eric: "there`s several things that YOU need to understand if it`s at all possible to penetrate your closed and propaganda fed mind." eric: "type: personal insult" Hypocrisy. dat: "True, but I've yet to see you show any." Eric: "tiech asserts i have none." I just said I haven't seen it. I then gave you an example of where it seems to be lacking. Notice he refuses to address that argument, proving my point. "then asserts i`d have called1 the gestapo. type: personal insult." Notice he doesn't explain his comment as being any different than my assumption. Truth is a defense against slander. "knowing full well that the difference lies in high tech weaponry." In his ignorance ignoring that the US, France, etc, sell the same "high tech weaponry" to both countries. "asserts that all members of the arab league are a threat", nope, never included Jordan. Meanwhile, Eric ignores that the AL officially is still in the State of War it declared in '48. In Eric's mind, truth is "innuendo".

"why won`t Israel acknowledge that is has a nuclear capability?" 1st, you have such a volume of spam, it's hard to see all questions. 2nd, you again show your ignorance. Anyone who studies the region knows why: 1) Originally, it was to avoid pressure from idiots such as you, who ignore the full context of the region 2) Now it's just habit, one that should end "if you really think they are going to risk doing it you`re dafter than they are." No, puppy, if you think they won't, you understand much less about Islam that you think you do. As for "ignoring" I still haven't seen you address my question about Dredd Scott on another thread. Care to enlighten me?

You brush off facts dismissively with statements such as "I cannot quote statutes and rulings like you..." Either do so or accept posted facts. You can't have it both ways: Ignorantly attacking Israel while claiming you're not antisemitic. It just doesn't work. "believe", ahhh, your "belief" is strong enough to contradict facts, history and clear statements. You must be a Bush supporter. "I don`t know how binding it is, but I know they passed it", again, ignoring fact in order to excoriate Israel. You still refuse to address: Why should Israel pay attention to a non-binding decision? "That`s my answer", exactly. You stick with opinions over fact yet claim you're not antisemitic. "You don`t reply when I tell you I worked for three Jewish doctors in stamford" First, I didn't see it. Second, who cares? You took money from Jews, gosh, that makes you such a friend. You sound like the many old racists who said "I don't hate blacks, hey, I even work with one!

that I had to limit you..Too many posts, not enough time to reply to them..I had also requested that you consolidate the posts, you didn't..Kept firing them off one after the other...I appreciate your defending me with Weltman, it wasn't necessary..I proved to him and the rest of the board that he didn't know what he was talking about...

Well, thanks for posting it so directly: "This first reply-only two allowed" so I shall be affronted in the sight of everyone! As if it wasn't enough that everyone was sticking their nose (and their posts) into the other recent thread we were debating/arguing in.. And to think, there was I, defending you to that silly bugger Joel Weltman when he said you had no military service! You might as well have posted, From The Desk Of The Controller, to me to make it really official. Believe me, I hadn't forgotten what you'd said...

Ah, but we're not reduced to the basic Haaretz input y'see..Eric will tell you the secret. He told me, and I told Ben Jabo.

...though, now you've just given him the secret, he will only be ruder and at enormous length! Bad enough to start with, but now.... I particularly resent his charge of anti-semite..that induces in me a high state of p***-off. Look how I defended Ben Jabo against that faker Joel Weltman in another thread before we knew he was a faker and he said Ben had no military record. Look how I work with Jewish Americans and manage to get through the days without killing them. Look how I once worked for Jewish doctors and the only wrong thing I did was put the lunch on the same shelves in the refrigerator. (They don't like this but I don't know why). It's the little things that really pee one off. Life is full of these little injustices.... are you going to write another poem soon? Regards, Silvienne

Now you've gone and told DT the posting secret, he'll be able to call us anti-semites and Jew haters and Israel-bashers and Zionist-loathers and hate-filled-liars at an even greater length than before! We're going to get even sicker of hearing it than we were before! Oh, we are going to rue this day.... Regards, Silvienne

Lots of congratulations on your post...I wish I could write like that! Such an orderly grouping of facts, neat rebuttals (quoting DT's original comments which I forget to do) point-by-point analysis...the fact is, Eric, you should be an attorney, or a public prosector, or perhaps a senator, or a representative... Anyway, your post was extremely impressive, and I don't say that lightly. Thank you also for your defence of my "human compassion", as you nicely put it! Regards, Silvienne

dave, i could tell you it only works for the righteous and the pure of mind and heart... sighhhhh...but i guess that would be a lie... i may be wrong sometimes...but i try not to lie. and i could tell you it's a power divine...but the above would again apply... i might also tell you that arming an adversary with its secret would be like commiting suicide...figuratively speaking of course...but again, that wouldn't be right. and i could deny it on the grounds that your posts are sometimes a challenge as they are; without having them double in size. unfortunately, since you've asked; i'm obliged. all I ask in return, which of course will be moot once i send it, is that you address silvienne a bit more polite and maybe try to see that we're each not anti-semite... write your comments in word, wordpad, or some other program; then copy and paste. once pasted, leave it...a single keystroke in the text window will cut it back to default size. have a nice day.

The basic Haaretz input dialog seems to limit people to ~1000 characters, yet #180 has over 1,600 and I've seen S with ones as long. How are y'all doing that? It'd be great to not have all the parts.

UN stays OUT...They can't be trusted, I've already explained they ran when Nasser told them to get out..They're doing a lousy job of monitoring in Lebanon..Hezbollah has been supplied under the UN's nose and with their connivance...In the 80's, PLO assumed firing positions from WITHIN UN positions..Lousy idea to give it another try..Fool me once, shame on you, fool me twice, shame on me...

1) regarding human compassion. tiech asserts i have none. type: personal insult. 2) regarding they who helped jews escape teich makes special note of me using the word "they" and then asserts i'd have called1 the gestapo. type: personal insult. 3)regarding israeli military might. teich; a) asserts that the egyptian army is bigger knowing full well that the difference lies in high tech weaponry. type: veiled semi-truth; evasive. and b) asserts that all members of the arab league are a threat to israel which is why israel needs high tech weaponry. type: unsubstantiated paranoia; evasive innuendo. 4) regarding israel's nuclear arsenal. teich asserts what i've already said, but ignores the underlying reason for israel's denial; which is that its not bound by the treaties, agreements, restrictions, pacts, and transparency required by members of the "nuclear club". type: evasive. 5) regarding ahmadinejad's comments. teich asserts he has the support of iran's supreme leader and its council of guardians despite the fact that his comments were disavowed by the supreme leader and frowned upon by many members of the council(http://www.cfr.org/publication/10396/) type: uninformed supposition; or blatant denial of truth. 6) regarding my response to dave's implication that all muslim leaders claim that nukes should be used to further islam. teich reverts back to the iranian president's comments. type: evasion 7) regarding apologies owed by him for belittling silvienne's human compassion and for stereotyping muslim leaders. teich asserts that i am filled with hate and deny facts. type: projection of personal guilt. thank you for your response, david teich.

we joked about it in one of these blogs... maybe someday...

My computer is acting up...Don't have the time to reply to you line by line...Unlike yourself, I have a reason for disliking the enemy..You're totally removed from the situation, never having been there or done anything about it, except pounding your keyboard..It really sounds like you believe in the "Protocols"..You had expressed opinions on the Iranian Jews, knowing nothing of them, except what you read..I doubt that you have any Jewish friends..You would hate them too much...

Burkas in Iran..we've got burkas in London now...there's a whole new population of Muslims settled there ostensibly as asylum seekers who are Iraqi, Turkish, Iranian...they practice honor killings (if they think they can get away with it) and women walk around with black full length burkas with only their eyes showing. We're not used to that because Pakistani women, who've been in England for years, don't wear those things. My friends told me that when you first see one, it looks so ridiculous you have to laugh. But I agree with you, the idea behind it is not in the least funny, and my friends better watch out; the "aslymn seekers" have a far higher birth rate than they do...

being part of the American Embassy attackers in 1979,the stinking bastard! And yes,he is a sociopath,but in order to destroy Israel, he has to condemn his entire country..all of it..to destruction.Mind you,I read in Time magazine about a university full of Iranian women all dressed in black burkas(pretty sight I don't think)all waving sticks and screaming they are ready to die for Allah..Does he have the only say with the nukes when he gets them? If so,that's dangerous.Perhaps,Ben,someone will assassinate him first,and we'll get lucky.. I never once said, not ever, that Israel threatened any neighbours with its nukes! I only said, why deny having them.. Regards

Ben, you are quite wrong, I do research, at least I sit hear reading from website after website while all around me are partying...! But my mind is not ordered and logical like yours and Eric's. I read one thing, seize upon it, mix it with something else..doesn't straighten itself out very well always. As regards the UN what I meant was: the Palestinians claim they are being extremely ill-treated in the WB and Gaza by Israel. Humanrights groups and some journalists confirm this, Israel denies it. If the UN peacekeeping force could have a presence there, they could stop terrorist acts instead of the IDF, and Israel would surely be vindicated in the eyes of the world if the UN could say, categorically, there is no oppression going on here. See? That could only be good for Israel. Even though it's been done before, so has everything else and nothing seems to work..wouldn't it be advisable to give it another try? Regards

Your remark that Eric "would have called the Gestapo" in your last post was quite unwarranted, but if that's the best you can do, things are looking pretty grim from your end. Why don't you reply to my question, asked before: why won't Israel acknowledge that is has a nuclear capability and has had it for years, when the world knows anyway? Where is the point in this dancing around the point? Is anyone being fooled? I have no argument with Israel having the nukes, but the hypocricy of not admitting it is ridiculous when everyone knows. Iran's ayatollahs and president and council can say as much as they like that they will nuke Israel, but if you really think they are going to risk doing it you're dafter than they are. And that's saying something, considering the idiotic statements that stream from Iran.

I cannot quote statutes and rulings like you and Eric and Johnboy and Ben Jabo can. But I won't be blinded by your rhetoric, either. I agree with you that Iran's president said he wanted to destroy Israel. I do not believe he is any such fool as to follow through on it. That's my answer. The IHCJ passed a ruling on the Israeli wall; I don't know how binding it is, but I know they passed it, and I know Israel ignored it. That's my answer. I don't believe the Palestinians bear all the blame for their situation; Israel shares it. That's my answer. You don't reply when I tell you I worked for three Jewish doctors in stamford while in college; why do you suppose I didn't run out screaming during my interview saying, Oh god! They're Jews!...that should be obvious even to you. Because I am not an antisemite.

which should be an answer in itself, by the way. lots of definitions...mutant ninja character...make believe planet, albanian king?, et al. but i'm assuming you mean the acronym used by white supremists. i'm not a white supremist ben, and if that fact escapes you at face value; then there's not much i can say or do to convince you otherwise. but if it'll tickles you little mean streak, i'll admit that i was more than just little taken aback by your smug innuendo... at first that is... because after thinking about it for a second, i realized how inane it was; coming from someone like you who's mentality and views, and no doubt actions too, are completely identical to those of white supremists. the only difference being the targets of your hate.

I copied and pasted the LINK YOU SUPPLIED. Tsk, tsk, yourself.

they're not Arabs, they're Muslim, speaking Farsi as their tongue instead of Arabic... Until the Shah was deposed, relations between Iran & Israel were rather good..Then the Mullah's, religious fanatics, took charge and everything turned topsy turvy...Wherever the fundamentalists are in power, they try to turn back the clock to the time of Saladin..Women are now being stopped in the street, makeup removed, told to dress properly or they'll be punished..That's the world of ahMADinejad... Burkhas aren't that far off..

Can you cite just one instance where Israel has threatened any of it's neighbors with nukes?? Until she does or acknowledges having them, it's a supposition by all parties... ahMADdinejad doesn't care what happens to his country, he's a dangerous egomaniac...Americans that were held hostage during the Iranian revolution have identified him as one of the ringleaders of the raid on the American Embassy.

your Timelines a bit more thoroughly...UN Peacekeepers were present in 1956, Nasser told them to get out, they did so quite swiftly...Nary a word, just upped and skedaddled...UN Peacekeepers are as reliable as the UN, they aren't to be trusted... It's all been done before, didn't work then, won't work now...Arabs may be anxious to have them, the UN is a porous line...Just look at Lebanon, Hezbollah bribes the UN units and they allow arms through from Syria...

Both links are stale..They're over a year old Iran has accelerated her target date for completion of her nuke project... As for my friendships, not too likely with your kind..I'm willing to bet that you believe in ZOG. Please affirm or deny.

Also, Israel not acknowledging them doesn't mean they aren't a deterrent (triple negative?). They're accepted. Iran's President was not "slapped down". While Western apologists such as you were saying he was misinterpreted, the official government press office said it was accurate. Meanwhile, the Ayatollahs not only didn't dispute him, former Council members have openly stated that a bomb should be used by Iran on Israel as soon as they get one. "certainly various hotspots of islamic extremism scatter throughout the world", yes, and IRan's one. Check http://www.iran-press-service.com/articles_2001/dec_2001/rafsanjani_nuke_threats_141201.htm Apology? Get real. The only thing I'm sorry about with you is that you're so filled with hate that you won't accept facts.

"human compassion IS NOT 'ignorance'". True, but I've yet to see you show any. The Arabs declared war against Israel's existence and are still fighting it. Yet you show no compassion for Israel or Jews, rather you continue to support the people who are the violent aggressors. As for "smuggling Jews", I'm glad you used "they". I'm quite sure you would have called the Gestapo. "it faces no immediate enemy who has an equal to its conventional capabilities". The Egyptian army is bigger than all other ME armies combined, including Israel. Analysts have no clue what will happen there when Mubarek dies, but Sadat's son has said the treaty is worthless because it's not supported by Sharia. Meanwhile, more than 600 million people in the Arab League against 7 million Israelis, yet you think Israel doesn't need an overwhelming technical advantage.

I point to official statements of Iran's President and ruling Ayatollahs that they're willing to sacrifice their people to destroy Israel and you can't say "oh, that's bad", you just respond with "Does Iran really want to commit national suicide?" That's running away. I ask how a non-binding decision of the IHCJ to the UNGA is law, you can't answer and only repeat yourself. That's running away. I ask you why they can't stop a war they started. You refuse to admit they started the war and that the "the situation they are forced to exist in" is created by them. That's running away. You admit you're ignorant on '45-50 and rather than learn and admit you're wrong, you drop it. That's running away. You continue to lie about Israel while refusing to admit the truth about the Arabs. That, my dear, is antisemitism. Don't whine about the label while you keep living it.

Eric, was it you who went on a visit to see Ballistic?

israel will never allow it, silvienne. the palestinians have asked for it on numerous occasions, but israel has always refused to allow it, and its big brother has always ensured that israel got its wishes. the reason for it is a given. israel does not want the visability that it would bring. as it stands, the realities of its activities are only revealed by the various religious delegations who reside there, and the outcry made by human rights organizations, the first of which is easily hidden by the media, and the latter of which receives very little media attention and is consistently decried as "anti-semite bias" by israel; which of course brings an end to any question. any unbiased and neutral presense would reveal the truth; which is why the palestinians have asked for it...and why israel has refused to allow it.

in an article I found here, in which it said that the United Nations Peacekeeping force is not allowed into the West Bank or Gaza Strip by Israel. I am trying to find out if that is true, because surely if Israel did permit them entry into the territories it could only be a good thing. Regards

my link might be early 2006; but your's is two months earlier...2006. no one is infallible ben, and by george, i almost found myself apologizing and admitting that i was mistaken, until on my last attempt, i found the right search word. but the difference between you and i, is that i tend to judge people as individuals, and with an open mind that holds no preconception of any kind; while you judge people as a group with the guilt of all being assumed by the actions of a few. and we'll never see eye to eye, me and you, because while i consider you; you'll judge me on my views. you don't have too many friends who are not jews; do you?

Something else...Iranians are not Arabs, they are Persians, why does their hate for Israel equal and in fact seem to excel many Arab countries' hate for Israel? PS: I am trying to see the Hamas Charter video link you sent; lucky its subtitled, but it takes about half an hour to load; so far I've seen only a bit. Regards

Thanks for the links and the statements you copied for me, but of course, I've got questions about it: Why does Israel never confirm having nuclear capability when everyone knows it? Also, Ahmadinejad could claim that Iran wants nukes as a deterrant to Israel, as Israel is the only country in the region with them. But most importantly, do you honestly believe that,no matter what he says, Ahmadinehjad really wants his enire country to commit suicide? Unless he's insane, he has to know that nuking Israel would be followed one minute later by the total destruction of Iran, reduced to a mass of clicking ashes by America in retaliation.There is no way he does not know that. Will Iran go along with him into oblivion? Not wishing to make light of this situation, but it's hard to think he'd be that stupid as to want Iran to cease to exist just to destroy Israel. But I see you take him seriously.... Regards

...from us "puppies"!"Extremist rabbi" does aptly describe him, as you said. Now,if Ahmadinejad does not have the final say in Iran, why on earth are America and Israel so afraid of his nuclear threats? I would also like to know why Israel has never admitted to having nuclear capability when everyone knows they do. There must be some reason for this denial. Regards

First thing..you said, and I know its true, that Soviet Russia left a lot of nukes behind, and we're afraid they might be sold to terrorist organisations. But my question is this: Soviet Russia has been dissolved for many years now, and as you say Iran has oil money, and so do other Arab countries, so why haven't any of them bought the nukes from Russia yet? I don't think it unlikely at all that Putin would sell them if asked..he could always deny it later. Rather than struggle on with the yellowcake and plutonium making, why doesn't Iran negotiate with Russia to buy ready-made, so to speak? You said that Russia is supplying Syria, and Syria is an ally of Iran...what's stopping this mutually lucerative deal, do you think? Regards

It's information dates back to early 2006, over a year ago..Iran is a lot closer to obtaining it's nukes..Things will change radically once they have them, it seem to be less than a year away...When someone threatens it's best to take them quite seriously, Israel does..Iran underwent regime change through revolution and can do it again...Nothing is static..

iran's political structure is a complicated one for outsiders to really grasp. but bottom line is that the iranian president does NOT dictate policy. below i've sent a link to an article that sheds a little light on its complexity. it's well worth reading in its entirety; but of particular interest is the part entitled: "What is the role of Iran?s president in foreign relations?" in it you'll see that iran's MOST powerful entity, the "supreme leader", was quick to publicly state that ahmadinejad's comments about israel were NOT official iranian policy. the "supreme leader" heads the "council of guardians", which is what some people call council of ayatollahs. by the way, ahmadinejad is quickly falling from grace among those who DO wield ultimate power in iran. he'll not see another term as president, and may not even finish his current term. http://www.cfr.org/publication/10396/ p.s.-i'd ask you to pass this on to ben; but i know he's going to read it. pp.ss.-if the link talks about a survey; just click on "skip survey".

"his earlier threats". Anyone that tell you he threatened only once, is an out and out LIAR. Ahmadinejad today echoed his earlier threats to "wipe Israel off the map""

The former Soviet Union had loads of nukes laying around when it disolved..Fear is that they will sell them to anyone that comues up with adequate funds..Don't you believe that the Ayatollah's reigned in ahMADinejad..Who ever tell you that is an out and out liar...The following will clearly show that he's repeated the threat several times.. "NUCLEAR WAR-FEAR Ahmadinejad to Iranians: Israel 'will be removed' President threatens to abandon Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- Posted: February 11, 2006 4:00 p.m. Eastern © 2006 WorldNetDaily.com Mahmoud Ahmadinejad Iran's President Mahmoud Ahmadinejad today echoed his earlier threats to "wipe Israel off the map" by telling a mass demonstration in Tehran, commemorating the 27th anniversary of the Islamic Revolution, that Palestinians and "other nations" will remove Israel from the region, adding a warning to the West that harsh measures against the nation's nuclear program would result in Iran walking away from the Nuclear Non-proliferation Treaty (NPT). "The policy of Iran has so far been pursuing nuclear technology within the framework of the NPT and IAEA (International Atomic Energy Agency)," he said. "If we see you (the West) want to violate the right of the Iranian people by using those regulations (against us), you should know that the Iranian people will revise its policies. You should do nothing that will lead to such a revision in our policy," said Ahmadinejad. The crowd, numbered in the hundreds of thousands accoding to state media, responded to Ahmadinejad's defense of its nuclear program ? believed by U.S. intelligence to be an effort to acquire atomic weapons ? with cries of "Nuclear energy is our undisputable right," "Death to America," "Death of Israel," "Death to Denmark."

there's several things that YOU need to understand if it's at all possible to penetrate your closed and propaganda fed mind. one thing is that human compassion IS NOT "ignorance"; it is wisdom and empathy. tell me dave; were they who helped smuggle jews from nazi germany "ignorant"? it's YOU who owe the apology! and israel's nuclear threat is a given. it faces no immediate enemy who has an equal to its conventional capabilities; so why then is its nuclear arsenal maintained? it's most likely to counter any threat to that superiority. while every other country in the world who possesses nukes maintains them as a deterrent; israel doesn't even acknowledge possessing them, much less make any promises not to use them preemptively. and finally, when ahmadinejad made his supercilious statement about israel; he was basically told by "the ruling council of ayatollahs" basically told him to shut up and then issued a statement to the world that his comment DID NOT represent the views of iran. then you stereotype with a claim that muslim leaders openly proclaim that nukes should be used to further islam. oh really? there certainly various hotspots of islamic extremism scatter throughout the world where what you say "might" be true...and individual exremists for sure; but they are the EXCEPTION and not the rule! or are we to assume that actions and views of extremist rabbis represent those of ALL jews? i believe there's another apology owed by you.

it's no more difficult than making oatmeal cookies... as long as you have the oats. they're working on the oats and that's what the big ruckus is all about.

Well, he doesn't like to be addressed as "hey"...that's one of the reasons. But hey is better than what David Teich calls me and you and Johnboy, i.e. "puppies"! Speaking of which, I haven't seen Johnboy here recently, have you? And you're right about something else; these Talkbacks are divided into two opposing sides, and it seems that no matter what is said, neither side can ever convince the other. It's like a total closed community; Israeli supporters and Palestinian supporters, each with their proof, with a wall between them. Ironic really, just like the actual Israel and Palestine, but fought out here with words... Regards

as you say, why is it that we've had them since 1945 and the Arab countries don't have them at all? Can't be all that easy, or they'd all be doing it. Regards

the capabilities of iranian scientists. persian contributions to the sciences has been ongoing to thousands of years; and it continues. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Science_in_Iran and the making of a nuclear weapon is not at all difficult anyway. the catch is the ingredients.

Here's the link you requested..If you want more, just Google them, quite easy to finds... ahMADinejad doesn't have to be smart...He has enough oil money to hire outside help...I fear that he'll have the bomb within a very few years..Russian is supplying him with equipment.. Nukes have been around for about sixty years, plenty of countries know how to make them and have them in their arsenals...I won't read the letter from Eric...He has adopted Ballistic's idiot salutation of "Hey"...Aside from that, I've yet to find he has ever had anything worthwhile to say..Here's the link, you'll note it from the German paper, "Der Spiegel" (Mirror) http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,484958,00.html

he seems to think that by some mysterious means he's proven something to me? which he claims that i refuse to address...but i mean really...how can anyone address something that makes no sense and is not really pertinent but yet is set forth with a steadfast and persistent claim that it proves some point that is distant vague, and most often inane, with a "proof" that's always the same, over and over and over again, in a constant replay no matter what it is you say? and i've heard that if you talk to a wall for too long, you're apt to go insane. so i quit while i was ahead...cuz it was getting far too repetitive. and besides...i was never able to find what he claimed his "proof" defined. lol...you'll see...he's bound to send it again as "proof" of me fleeing... then you'll see why i finally took flight... lol...i did not duck and hide... i took flight to keep my mind! but he's not refering to you.

...stuff, really. There was indeed an apology to you from me for calling you a Hebrew word I learned from Ben Jabo; I said I shouldn't have used it because he probably wouldn't think I should and I was sorry. I already said this. Now, that is enough of that. If you want to slagg off myself, Johnboy and Eric for writing lots of posts you must also, in the interests of fairness, slagg off all the pro-Israel posters who do the exact same thing; I can name them and expect you can too. That's enough of that. The Court of International Justice and international law have both condemned some of Israel's actions and are both ignored by Israel so they really don't much matter to the discussion, now do they? I've told you my opinion as for the Palestinians ending war; the situation they are forced to exist in is not conducive for maintaining any quality of life, let alone declaring the end of any wars. Number Three, I have no idea whatsoever and I freely admit it.

...I didn't do is wrong. I never excoriated Ethan, or slagged him off, or called him names, or was rude to him. Not my style, David Teich. What I did was to question his position. I don't think Israel should nuke Iran; he does. Fair enough. I know very well the threats Iran makes against Israel, but it is my opinion that those threats are not worth the paper the ayatollahs write them on; I don't believe that Iran, if it gets the bomb, would be so utterly stupid as to use it against Israel. There is no way Iran does not realise that if they destroy Israel, their own complete destruction follows immediately afterwards, in the form of America's nukes. Does Iran really want to commit national suicide?

#133 and #134...they were extremely poetic...in fact, for a moment I actually thought you were writing poetry!... they certainly made me feel a lot better; thank you for such lovely writing! Of course you are right about the names we get called; I should simply not reply, but you know how it is; the more you, Johnboy and me get called "puppies" by David Teich the more I want to retaliate..but actually it's totally futile, because nothing will convince him he is not in the right! Thank you again, (and as Hannah wrote to us in another thread) "keep on posting"! Regards

Ben: "If you want to read ahmadinejad's threats I'll send you the links" All right then, please send them to me. It's also lucky for us that ahmadinejad and his scientists are so stupid, they couldn't build the bomb if they tried..much as they are trying. PS: Ben, did you ever read Eric's post to you, #116? I asked if you would because it concerns any future war but probably you didn't notice.

In response to Eric's post to me, you wrote: "Then you have those who when faced with the truth duck into their shells and go into hiding, ask I'll give you examples, I haven't forgotten". Please give the examples. Are you by any chance referring to me?

Then we have those, who when faced with the truth, duck into their shells and go into hiding...Ask, I'll give you a few examples... They think I've forgotten, I haven't, it's retained in my extensive library.

Iran has been beating the war drums and making all the threats. If you want to read ahMADinejads's threats, just ask, I'll send you the link/s. That's why Iran is frantically pursuing the completion of it's Nukes.

As insane as Ethan may be (use neutron bombs that don't destroy Iran's nuclear capabilities?), you again make the one sided ignorant statements that show you're his match. Israel has never said it would use bombs. However, Iran's leaders have not only openly stated that Israel should be wiped off the map, ruling council Ayatollahs (They are above the President) have stated that the first "good" Islamic country to get the bomb should use it against Israel -- since they could wipe out this country and Israel doesn't have enough bombs to wipe out the Islamic countries. That's right, Muslim leaders openly claim that MAD makes no sense if you're on jihad and that nukes should be used to further Islam. Ethan's an individual, just as their were individuals in both the USSR and the USA who believed nukes should be used, but he's not a leader who controls the nukes. Iran wants nukes and their leadership has said they'd use it. That you excoriate Ethan and not Iran makes you worse than he.

That's another ramble with not facts or logic beside it. You "thanked", but I saw no "apology". As mentioned, I also continue to peruse your spam-like volume of posts and, as I've mentioned, continued to see things without facts, context or in any complexity -- while remaining one sided. As for puppies, think. Puppies get so happy when let into the room with the big people that all they can do is wag their tails like crazy, bark loudly, and occasionally lose control and piddle on the floor. Yes, you are puppies. Once again, basic questions: 1) The Arabs unconditionally declared war against Israel's existence, so why is it inappropriate for them to unconditionally end it? 2) How is a non-binding opinion delivered by the Hague Court to the UNGA "int'l law"? 3) If more than 50 million refugees were absorbed by their new countries during '45-50, why is it Israel's fault that the Arabs wouldn't absorb 472,000 Arab refugees?

once again, fret thee not silvienne... i'll not tell my opine of ethan... at least not herein.... but at the very most, he is... absolutely nothing to worry about. there are some people who have clue... and there's others don't just know... then there's that third bunch who are neither... so they simply blow smoke... for lack of anything intelligent to say... and yes...you're right about the evangelists...because ALL extremists are dangerous; no matter what their religion, opinion, or belief. keep your head high and keep on smiling! the hate in these talkbacks will consume itself in the long run...

so i'll say it again. in one talkback or another...to you i mentioned... don't let them drag you down...you just keep being who you are...and the way you are... and let them be who THEY are...and the WAY they are... they simply show their colors, silvienne... and it is exactly people like them... whose closed minds and hate will always undermine... any hope at all for the peace process... but take heart milady! for the jackals that they are; they're more help to our cause by far... when they post for all the world to see... the ignorance and hatred that they breed... and reveal the sorts of mentalities... which in themselves are demon seeds... that fuel the acts of israel's misdeeds... so then, milady...you just be yourself... let them and their hatred seethe... because to everyone who reads... they are the most revealing. and teich? don't fret him at all. when faced by the truth; he sputters and stalls. sometimes it's best to ignore the baser types...and let their ignorance rage on the world stage...because they reveal to all the true sentiment that's behind israel's crimes against humanity. so let the jackals be jackals.

In another Talkback in which we were discussing/arguing, you asked me to reply to your post about the olive trees and an earlier post. I did so in that Talkback, thanking you for the olive tree post and apologising for an earlier post to you in which I was wrong. I don't think you have read those three posts which were replies that you had specifically asked me for. But no matter. David, if all you want is a slanging match with me, it's somewhat pointless, but if that's the best you can do, okay. One thing though; you often call me, Eric and Johnboy "puppies". If there is an obsession with dogs going on here, please leave it out. I can assure you that I most certainly do not resemble a dog.

I've just replied to Ethan's post to me; he can't be serious about using neutron bombs..I know what they are, and what'll that achieve? Also he says Israel will nuke Iran, I most devoutly hope not, because like I told him, Israel will drag America into the war, and America will go, with the government we've got now...then what? I know the New Testament part you mean, Revelations, St.Peter with the keys of heaven and hell...born again Christian evangelists can be as frightening as extremist Muslims in some ways..Iran might want nuclear capability because Israel has it, as in, mutually assured destruction, like us and Soviet Russia used to be. I hope you aren't intending to see Israel, as you told Ethan, because if Israel nukes Iran, we'd better throw ourselves in the sea and start swimming for Europe... Regards

Ethan, you surely cannot be serious. We cannot use the bomb on Iran under any circumstances; that would set off another world war. And if Israel is stupid enough to do so, that will drag America into the war right after Israel. Neutron bombs..I know what they are, but the effect is every bit as deadly. Do you really think, as you said, that Israel will nuke Iran? If they do, we should be moving to Europe, fast. Because our government will join in to protect Israel, as usual, and there will be an unwinnable war. At least Soviet Russia understood the meaing of Mutually Assured Destruction. Regards

...well, take this for example: David Teich always sees fit to post insulting descriptive terms about me in his posts, and you know I never namecall in my replies to anyone. And David Teich is a rabbi! What a holy man, I don't think! Anyway, what's the point of all this politeness, I ask myself? David Teich regularly calls me: anti-semitic-Jew-hater-Israel-hater-spamwriter-idiot...and so on. Worst of all, he often calls me a puppy. Why a puppy? I can assure him that I don't look like a dog! In the Talkback "Keeping the Palestinians out of sight" Dr.David Gross and Yoni at least can discuss all this without calling me a puppy! In the end, all that's left with David Teich is to get into a slanging match...suppose I'll have to.. Regards

and maybe that's why ben jabo didn't want to address it... all i have to say ethan, is that i hope the prophecy of your single-minded hatred never comes to be... because i'll what you what my friend; that will be the beginning of the end...not only of iran, but of israel and the world. so if you haven't seen israel yet; you better hurry or you never will. the only "sane" people who might be smiling and hoping for your prophecy to come true, are the "born again christian evangelists"; because of what they expect will ensue. have you ever read the new testament ethan? in particular; "the book of revelation"... because your post pretty much describes the beginning of the end.

read Ethan's post to me, #118, in which he advocates the use of neutron bombs...

Please read Eric's post #124, Ben. Then comment on it if you have time. Regards

which is cool...that's all i wanted you do. just a little mental food. and i hardly think that you have a leg to stand on by suggesting that i'm not "civilized". you who ARE brashly so to anyone who's opinion varies from yours. i at least try to maintain my civility; although i'll admit that i do sometimes respond in kind to those who are less than nice...or to a post that has an air of belligerence. and can you honestly tell me that when you're in a group of friends(i'm assuming of course), that you find it uncivil if one who wanted to get your attention did so by saying "hey ben"? but it's cool...i DO understand you may have needed an excuse.

the rest of your post. Try again, being a bit more civilized. Possibly, I'll deign to read it.

"Padilla". A case of a US citizen deprived by the military of rights given by the constitution. The USSC is right to rule on the rights of citizens defined in the constitution, including that the military has no right to remove those rights. Both JB & bbl are wrong to use that as an analogy to compare with the IDF's actions with enemy aliens. "EPA", the EPA regulations are powers granted by Congress and not the USSC. It's not a constitutional question at all, as the EPA regulates businesses, not the military. If I remember correctly, Congress has said the DOE and the DoD (Energy, Defense) must follow the EPA's regulations on radioactive waste, but that's it. Oh yeah, and a Reagan era Justice Dept ruling says one branch of the Federal Govt can't sue another, so the EPA can't sue the DoD for enforcement. Discussing both of those shows the two are having problems (JB for the nth time) with the concept of analogy.

Yes, I've called you antisemitic, and I've proven it with what you say and what you run away from. You've not been able to contradict it, you just complain. As for "Jew hater", two things. First, study semantics and explain how that's different from antisemetic. Second, give me an url where I've used that term. "Israel hater", again, provide a url. You blame Israel, as many do, in the new PC term to avoid blaming Jews. However, as Martin Luther King pointed out (maybe you've heard of him?), being anti-Zionist is being antisemitic. "Goebbels". When you lie about Jews and Israel while avoiding truths about people who have declared war against Israel's existence, you are propagating the "Big Lie" in order to blame Jews and Israel. Again, stop living the definition and the definition won't fit. "Friarim"? Boy you're showing your ignorance. That has nothing to do with the conversation. Stick with English, you have enough problems with it that you shouldn't be trying a second language.

1) Notice she makes not points or disputes any of mine, just makes a factless claim. 2) We're not "arguing" in another one, she's still avoiding just as she does with my statements against some Israeli actions. 3) She still won't admit that the truth is a defense against her whines of slander. Namecalling, if accurate, is definition. You define yourself and I just point it out.

Notice how he moves back and fourth, cherry picking laws as needed. HC42 is only part of a large body of law, but he continues to misinterpret that one. The he tries to claim, after running previously, that "customary law" is "COMPULSORY" when it isn't. Third, IHCJ doesn't have jurisdiction over the military, just as there are military courts in Australia. It does have jurisdiction over military members violating Israeli laws while not performing military duties, but that's different. Just as the British Court could do nothing about the military authority's excesses here during the Mandate. In fact, it took parliament, which controls the military's authority, to remove the military govt and replace it with a civil govt. However, that was still a separate govt, not part of the domestic judiciary. Of course, JB continues to treat Israel out of context to the rest of the world. It's the only way for the puppy to keep barking.

They say explicitly, 70 million dead Iranians is worth destroying Israel. Just like Hitler diverted army trains to send Jews to gas chambers. He wanted us dead more than for Germany to live. Read the links below. They tell how Israel and ONLY Israel can do it. Israel must use neutron bomb to wipe out Iranian and Syrian forces. No one else will do this. Neutron bomb destroys soldiers, not property, so no bad PR photos. Radiation gone in a week. Subsequent Israeli invasion a cakewalk. Seize Iran nuke sites on ground, only way to get them all. Only alternative: H-bomb on Tehran but neutron bombs on military targets more gentle. But Iran so centralized it's a "one bomb" country if H-bomb used. Fact: Israel WILL nuke Iran. Only question is whether Iran nukes Israel first! Nuke Iran NOW! Read: http://www.neutroniran.blogspot.com/ and http://www.israelnationalnews.com/article.php3?id=6835

The rest of the world is too stupid, incompetent, procrastinating, greedy, selfish, lazy or anti-Semitic. Every last one of 'em with their pate, bidet, chateau, Malraux, Descartes, Sartre and far*t. Read the links below. Very informative. They tell how Israel and ONLY Israel can do it. No one stopped North Korea or Pakistan from getting the bomb. Israel must use neutron bomb to wipe out Iranian and Syrian forces. No one else will do this. Neutron bomb destroys soldiers, not property, so no bad PR photos. Radiation gone in a week. Subsequent Israeli invasion a cakewalk. Seize Iran nuke sites on ground, only way to get them all. Only alternative: H-bomb on Tehran but neutron bombs on military targets more gentle. But Iran so centralized it's a "one bomb" country if H-bomb used. Fact: Israel WILL nuke Iran. Only question is whether Iran nukes Israel first! Nuke Iran NOW! Read: http://www.neutroniran.blogspot.com/ and http://www.israelnationalnews.com/article.php3?id=6835

...don't need no stinkin' High Court.

i love the picture you paint for silvienne with this post... knowing full well that israel is likely to be the first to strike...nuke or not. whether iran's nuclear goals are peaceful or not is something i don't know...nor do you. but if by chance they are...it doesn't take a genious to figure out why; and it's most likely NOT for any preemptive strike. it's for the same reason israel has nuclear devices, and the same reason pakistan had to have one if india did...it's known as a deterrent. wht would iran need a deterrent and against whom? guess who ben? from whom in the their midst would they need a deterrent? there's only one who maintains a nuclear arsenal. it's known as "prudence", ben. should israel continue its expansionism and its aggression towards its neighbors; iran wants to keep the playing field as level as it can should it choose to play an active role in their defense. the world knows that israel has historically defied international law when it comes to furthering its goals, without fail. not even 'big brother' has any doubts that if pressed into a corner by overwhelming odds; israel will use their nuclear arsenal. it's the reason they possess it, among neighbors who can't even withstand its conventional military might...thanks to 'big brother'. it is israel who has sparked the desire for nuclear parity, ben...and as usual, the first to scream "foul" when it's sought.

...you described. Iran doesn't have the nuke yet - lucky for us they're so slow at learning how to build it - and even when it does, do you honestly think they'd be so asinine to fire the first one? If they aimed it at Israel, even before Israel could retaliate America would nuke Iran back to flattened desert...they must know this. That loudmouthed president is just that; all talk to look good... You notice, of course, that I always try to think of the "best-case scenario"...got to look on the bright side, you know... You never told me about the phrase that all Jews are related; you asked me where I got it from, I posted back to you and you didn't reply about it... Regards

Meanwhile Iran is working feverishly on obtaining a nuke. She's already threatened Israel with destruction and being wiped off the map. Nukes won't be initiated from the U.S. Iran will probably fire the first one and Israel will retaliate in like kind...After that, everybody will let loose with their arsenals.

....from here in America. Bush is such an idiot, he'd look at the wrong map and take out half of Europe by mistake...

You're defending Jose Padilla, late calling himself Abdullah something, and his "dirty bomb"? Oh, come on...you might as well try to defend that idiot Richard the "shoe-bomber". They may be pathetic, but they could have done some serious damage if circumstances had been different. You surely don't want them to be able to try again? Regards

As long as you raise the issue of anti-semitism,I must respond to this hateful characteristic.The reason why petrodollars may not be effective to purchase votes on the Security council of the UN is quite simple.Now follow me if your shallow mind can take logic.Not all of the nations represented on the Security Council can be bribed.See it is quite simple.The majority of the nations in the GA are not very fond of Jews, given the wealth of some Jews, their brilliance in the art, science, medicine, engineering, finance and international assistance organizations.May I enlighten your drab existence by pointing out that despite a relatively miniscule world population, about 15% of the Nobel prizes have gone to people who happen to be of the Jewish faith.

I asked David Teich to refrain from his constant namecalling because in other threads he consistently calls me; 1)Jew Hater, 2)Anti-Semitic, 3)Israel Hater, and most recently, he said that one of my posts would make Gobbels proud! That is, as the actress said to the bishop, over the top. Needless to say, by way of provoking this heap of abuse, I had actually dared to disagree with Israel's policies and actions. Unforgiveable, I know, but still...no-one has ever seen me call anyone names. We are not, after all, a load of adolescent teenage boys flaming each other on a videogame newsgroup...unless..? Anyway, I tried to explain to Ben Jabo in a later post why I had asked David Teich to put a sock in it. And he is a rabbi! Every time I think I just won't reply to Rabbi David, there he is again, posting another load of rubbish right to me.... Regards

for a change...

treat each other and everyone else. No court system, just plain murder.. "Algeria summary: 500,000 to 1 million in the war of independence; 100,000 in the civil war in the 90?s. Sudan summary: 2.6 million to 3 million. Afghanistan Summary: One million to one and a half million, as a result of the Soviet invasion; about one million in the civil war. Somalia Summary: 400,000 to 550,000 victims in the civil war. Bangladesh summary: 1.4 million to 2 million. Indonesia summary: 400,000 killed, with an additional 100,000 to 200,000 in East Timor Iraq Summary: 1.54 million to 2 million victims. Iran Summary: 450,000 to 970,000 victims. Lebanon summary: 130,000. Yemen summary: 100,000 to 150,000 fatalities Chechnya summary: 80,000 to 300,000 fatalities. But wait, there?s more: Jordan: 1970 to 1971 the Black September riots took place In the Hashemite kingdom of Jordan. King Hussein was fed up of the Palestians use of the country and their threatened to take control of it. The confrontation, mainly a massacre in the refugee camps, took thousands of lives. According to estimates provided by the Palestinians themselves - 10,000 to 25,000 fatalities. According to other sources - a few thousand. Chad: Half of the population of Chad are Muslims: In various civil wars 30,000 civilians have been killed. Kosovo: In the mainly Muslim area of Yugoslavia about 10,000 were killed in the war there from 1998 to 2000. Tajikistan: Civil war from 1992 to 1996 left about 50,000 dead. Syria: Hafez Assad?s systematic persecution of the Muslim Brotherhood ended in the 1982 massacre in the city of Hama, costing the lives of about 20,000 people. Iran: Thousands were killed in the beginning of the Humeini Revolution. The precise number is unknown, but is somewhere between thousands and tens of thousands. The Kurds also suffered at the hands of Iran, and about 10,000 of them were murdered there. Turkey: About 20,000 Kurds were killed in Turkey as part of the conflict there. And yet, the world screams ?genocide? every time Israel kills a terrorist or three. The Sudanese genocide goes on under everyone?s noses, and mostly under the media radar, except when George Clooney suddenly recognizes it. The rest of the stories above are ignored or downplayed. The real danger in the middle east, they say, is Israel?not the despots and sadistic bastards who are murdering their own countrymen?mostly over religion. Mostly over Islam. That religion of peace(TM).

No. Then you anti-Semites will take us VERY seriously. IAEA found in Iran polonium-210, highly perishable, half-life of ONLY 138 DAYS, only used to make A-bomb triggers. Meaning: Iran to nuke Israel IMMINENTLY. Israel must drop neutron bombs on Iran and Syria NOW! Only alternative: H-bomb on Tehran but neutron bombs on military targets more gentle. But Iran so centralized it's a "one bomb" country if H-bomb used. Read: http://www.neutroniran.blogspot.com/ and http://www.israelnationalnews.com/article.php3?id=6835 Neutron radiation destroys soldiers, not property, no bad PR photos, dissipates quickly. One week later invasion is cakewalk. Invade Iran through Syria with ground forces to seize and destroy Iran nuke sites on ground. Then no need to nuke underground Iran nuke sites. Just take stairs, destroy with conventional explosives. ONLY way to get ALL Iran nuke sites: INVADE! Fact: Israel WILL nuke Iran. Only question is whether Iran nukes Israel first! Fire Olmert & nuke Iran NOW!

bbl: "The U.S. military has taken U.S. citizens, like Jose Padilla, out of the jurisdictions of civil courts" And the tactics of the Solicitor General was to PREVENT the Supreme Court making a ruling that the President overstepped his authority in doing that. The ABSENCE of a Supreme Court ruling can not be used to suggest the US military knowingly and willfully ignores a ruling of that court. bbl: "The U.S. military has regularly ignored environmental regulations, set by the EPA and supported by Supreme Court decisions" Sloppy wording indeed; care to tell me wether the Supreme Court "supports" the legitimacy of the EPA REGULATIONS themselves, or "supports" the EPA decision that the US Military is violating those regs? If the former then this is not relevent either, because the Supreme Court has not ruled that the US military has violating any regs, but has simply ruled that those regs are valid.

"I'm racking my brains but I can't think of any examples of what you claim. Care to help?" Sure Nick, but really, you can't be rcking those brains very hard. The U.S. military has regularly ignored environmental regulations, set by the EPA and supported by Supreme Court decisions, on bases in the U.S. Violations have occurred in several ways including: what is produced, what is disposed of, and what is cleaned up when bases close. The U.S. military has taken U.S. citizens, like Jose Padilla, out of the jurisdictions of civil courts and held him without his proper Supreme Ct. guaranteed rights to, at times, a lawyer, a speedy trial, and numerous other elements of due process. Do you need other examples? I could go on, but it would take additional posts.

B: "I might have thought that some country other than Israel would have made the top of your list, such as China, a serial violator of UN resolutions for the last 48 years over their oppresion of Tibet." No, I think you will find that Israel holds the record, though Apartheid South Africa must have been a contender for a while..... B: "Some would say that what China did to Tibet is far worse than anything that Israel has ever done to the Pals" And they would be wrong. China oppresses a minority population - as many countries have done before and since - but they are HER people, not a foreign people. China has had unbroken sovereignty over Tibet for over a 1,000 years, Bob, and even when she temporarily lost AUTHORITY over that land in the 1930-50s she still retained her sovereignty over it. Sovereign states are responsible for their own affairs, but states that abuse other people are displaying an altogether different level of rogue behaviour.

Labhras, Sorry about my lack of reading comprehension. Let me amend what I last wrote: "Let`s draw up a list of every UN resolution, note the compliance or lack thereof by the subject member country, and expel the country in the latter group at the top of Labhras' list." I might have thought that some country other than Israel would have made the top of your list, such as China, a serial violator of UN resolutions for the last 48 years over their oppresion of Tibet. Some would say that what China did to Tibet is far worse than anything that Israel has ever done to the Pals, but of course it depends on whose ox is gored and I'll make a wild guess that you are not a Tibetian.

?Do us all a favour and don?t start name calling here, even if you?d like to? Ben, be fair. Have you ever known me to call anyone names? Never. I said this to David Teich out of total frustration, because he posts to me, yet he cannot refrain from calling me all sorts of names of things which I am not; anti-Semitic (am not) Jew-hater (most unfair), Israel hater (untrue), and he even had the nerve to mention the name of that monster Gobbels, saying he?d be proud of what I?d written. That is really too much for any reasonable person to accept. I don?t even know a good Hebrew word with which to respond, either. Friarim hardly is appropriate here. As for Johnboy, of course, you are right, if he does the same, he would be wrong too.

And what army does Supreme Court Chief Justice Dorit Beinisch command? Any nation where compliance with the rule of law is accepted has a claim to being a civilized society. Others, for example Pakistan, have governments where the military rules and any justice which stands in the way can be fired. In Israel it is clear that the IDF cannot be expected or compelled to execute an order of the court. Which raises - and answers - the question of whether Israel is a nation of laws or a nation of force. The one thing none of us should ever forget is that at least Israel has tried to be a nation of laws, and that it still might become one again. One could say as much of the United States of America.

Ben: Arabs are incapable of ruling themselves; look what happened in Gaza. But, look at this: Gaza has just been released from a 40 year military occupation. Palestinian factions now fight for control; meanwhile, Israel still controls the borders, the food, the water, the electricity, the economy...what chance does the ordinary Palestinian civilian have for a decent life? Surely, hopefully, it will calm down in Gaza. Israel should also pay to Gaza the money it is withholding for exports; that might help a bit. Regards

Ben: "Recommend one Arab nation for Israel to emulate"... Um...what about Jordan, possibly? I know it isn't a democracy, but it's a more moderate state, at least, and it has a treaty with Israel, and good relations with America. Regards

BJ: "Johnboy..Anyone that doesn`t agree with him gets called names. " I insult both you and David Teich because you have both show not the slightest hesitation in insulting me. I therefore see no reason for holding back, which apparently comes as something as a shock to you; is that because you are used to dishing it out without receiving any in reply? For most other posters I will initially resort to correcting any errors that believe I see. If they reply by imputing my motives for pointing out those errors then I have no hesitation in taking the gloves off. If they stick to arguing to the facts then I remain civil towards them, and I will attempt to respond with facts. You have a problem with that, BEN? Well, tough, coz you have long since forfeited any respect I might have towards either you or your opinions.

"The IDF has simply bared its buttocks to that Court". Well now. This produces an interesting metal image. However... JB: I think America is the last nation to lecture anyone on how to run an occupation" I didn't mean it that way, if you are referring to the seething mass of chaos that is Iraq! I simply meant that America, as Israel's number one ally, could ask or tell Israel to steady on here a bit in this occupation of the WB.... Regards

It could take a lot more than twelve months. IDF can appeal the order..In the U.S., court decisions are frequently appealed by either party. That also spplies to Supreme Court decisions, which can be appealed for years & years...

Dear Victor, In your criticisms of Eire as a mickey mouse republic, you say they supported IRA terrorism for long periods of time. Who supported the UDF and the Ulster Volunteer Force against the Provos? Walt Disney? Regards.

The court ruled the wall comes down in a certain area. Ok it comes down. Build it in the proper place, quit screwing around. It really wont make a difference in the end, it will be built and the palis will be on the other side

Dear Victor, Thank you for responding to my post. Is it going to take 12 months before the IDF can tear this wall down? If so, it would be an inordinately long time for a democratic institution to respond to orders from the high court, don?t you think? For your information, Thailand is a constitutional monarchy, not a republic, and all the many varieties of bananas here are delicious. Regards.

You might relay the same message to your buddy Johnboy..Anyone that doesn't agree with him gets called names. In his world ONLY he is right, all others are defamed.. "Do us all a favour and don`t start namecalling here, even if you`d like to

West Bank is under Israeli rule..That's the long and short of it...Arabs are incapable of ruling themselves...Look at what happened in Gaza...

Can you recommend ONE Arab nation that would be an example for Israel to emulate""... Please cite the name of any one Arab democracy,,. That shouldn't be asking too much.... Eagerly awaiting your response, though I'm not holding my breath.

Israel hasn't threatened Iran, just the reverse. World is a lot safer if Iran doesn't get nukes.

S: "The IDF appears to think it has a clear mandate to do exactly as it likes in the WB." The IDF thinks it has sole authority in the WB? It does. Authority over occupied territory resides with the occupying army, not with the govt that sent the army in. Int'l Law is quite clear on that. But In'l Law is also quite clear that this authority is NOT absolute; authority granted in Article 42 of the Hague Regs is constrained by Articles 43-56. It is not that the IHCJ has told the IDF to "step aside" so that the Court can run the occupation, but that the IHCJ has told the IDF than an order it has issued is illegal. THAT IS WHAT A HIGH COURT IS FOR. And the IDF has simply bared its buttocks to that Court. If the IDF gets its way then that will mean the IDF is Above The Law, and that is the fundamental issue. S: "And, worst luck, I don`t see America contradicting them." I think the USA is the last nation to lecture anyone on how to run an occupation.

Hi Johnboy,, Can you check post# 78 from Bob to me. I seem to recall you have material on this subject. Read also #s 22/65/77. to get the gist. Thanks and Regards

VH: "johnboy exposes courts who have no means of enforcing politically held decisions" They can order the arrest of anyone who shows contempt of the court. VH: "these left wing kangaroo courts johnboy are ignored because they are just that kangaroo courts" It's the highest court in the land! VH: "the idf is empowered by security concerns to ignore any court decision which imperils israel !" Meaningless twaddle; the IDF can do what it wants, when it wants, how it wants, provided that *IT* thinks that is necessary for "security purpose"!! There are countries that behave that way, victor, but none of them are "democracies". VH: "so anything its says is security can be challenged but not obeyed !" The IDF can not issue orders that are illegal under Israeli Law. The IHCJ is the final arbiter of the legality of such orders, and it found the order WAS illegal. And you say the IDF can simply continue acting illegally. How Very Zionist, victor

Hello Bob--you wrote "Good. Let`s draw up a list of every UN resolution, note the compliance or lack thereof by the subject member country, and expel all that fall in the latter group. I`m not sure that Israel will find itself isolated." It seems you did not fully read my post again.I said Israel is at the top, thereby ceding they have company. Regards

...pulled down anytime soon. I certainly don't. The IDF appears to think it has a clear mandate to do exactly as it likes in the WB. And, worst luck, I don't see America contradicting them. Regards

...as in the other one we are arguing in. Do us all a favour and don't start namecalling here, even if you'd like to. It's unnecessary and detracts from your position. Regards

NF: "You rule that the IDF is beyond the jurisdiction of the High Court, and therefore has no case to answer." And David is completely wrong. The IHCJ does have jurisdiction to rule on wether an order issued by the IDF is illegal under Israeli Law. The order to build that wall was issued by the IDF Commander in the WB. His authority to issue orders derives from Article 42, Hague Regs 1907. The Hague Regs are Customary Int'l Law, which means they are automatically part of Israeli Law (customary int'l law is compulsory on all nations). That brings the legality of his orders within the jurisdiction of the IHCJ, and they have ruled that when he issued *this* order he was exceeding the authority granted to him by the Hague Regs and, therefore, the order is illegal. This is not novel; the IHCJ has been ruling this way since the mid-1970's. It's just that *usually* they rubber-stamp the IDF order, and in this case they refused.

G: "If they have a good alternative, building gates at regular intervals, why not consider it before wasting all this money? " Because the IHCJ has ruled that the PURPOSE of the wall is illegal. Therefore the IDF Commander exceeded his AUTHORITY under International Law by ording that wall to be built. It therefore has to be pulled down, because the order that led to it being built was illegal. What part of the word "illegal" are you having problems with?

DT: "He demands that Israel act as if it has sovereignity over the WB and that the Court has some mystical power over the IDF." Ignorance Writ Large. Let me explain the IHCJ ruling, since you can't be bothered to read the judgements for yourself: 1) The IDF Commander in the WB issues the orders 2) His AUTHORITY to issue orders in the WB derives from Article 42, Hague Regs 3) The entire Hague Regs are Customary Int'l Law 4) Customary Int'l Law is COMPULSORY on all nations 5) Therefore, the Hague Regs are automatically part of Israeli Law 6) Therefore, the IHCJ has the jurisdiction to rule on wether his order exceeds the authority granted to him under those regulations. It has nothing to do with "sovereignty" over that land, and everything to do with wether the IHCJ has jurisdiction to examine the legality of an order issued under Israeli Law. Clearly they can. They have. He exceeded his authority, so the order is illegal. Simple. As. That.

Good. Let's draw up a list of every UN resolution, note the compliance or lack thereof by the subject member country, and expel all that fall in the latter group. I'm not sure that Israel will find itself isolated.

Hi Bob, not sure if you read my post correctly but I am focusing on UN members and especially those who refuse to adhere to Resolutions passed by the same body against them. Israel sits at the top so why not start there. Regards

More so than the Turks ! Reminds me of the "The IDF is investigating" soundbite. Got sadly funny, that one.

has the court gone mad? are they the heirs of the capos?

yuor understanding of law appears to be minimal . such an order would be against an officer of the state, so you suggest that the police arrest an army general and imprison him on the order of a civil court? then if a fine has to be paid it comes out of his pay ? it would make a good movie with adam sandler as the general or the police officer !!

nick your silliness is gettting to be a standing joke ! even in a banana republic like thailand you have a goverment amd ministry of finance and government departments who all get an annual share of a budget ! now the process to do any work starts with a survey and tender preparation . the tender would be sent out to contractors for the lowest or best bid . when the money is available a contract would be signed and the contractor would carry out the work ! from day 1 i guess it would take a minimum of 12 months ! my advice to you nick is to stick to what you know which isnt much !

This poster is WAY out there. I agree with the other poster who wonders how many nuts FL has; I know of at least two, John Feigenbaum and this poster!!! All from the safety of good ole FL and always talking about whacking somebody else. Soprano plots I guess.

Good evening Moshe and thanks for you response. You wrote "Your death wish for Israel is understood within the context of a strongly Catholic country, so it is not surprising." Ireland has many religions so what is your point. Oh yes the old "Anti Semite" card.Weak and well worn out. You wrote "Nearly all of the "international Laws(sic)/conventions" which #22 alleges have more to do with the recommendations of th General Assembly rather than the Security Council`s orders. Petrodollars can purchase many votes in the UN against the Jewish state, and this has been shown many times."misspelling of the word "the" noted,(Th). If all those petro dollars can buy so much, why can they not buy "Security Council" votes.As to the UNGARS they are indicative of how the rest of the civilized world views the Criminal State of Israel. Or is the rest of the "Anti Semite' as well. Regards # 44.

In response to "wracking" your brain regarding ignoring the highest court's decisions,may I introduce you to your country of residence.The Thai military took control of the government during Sept.2006, and appointed the Prime Minister as well as the national assembly.Even a benign coup which re-constitutes a government to the liking of the military can hardly be compared with the foolishness and stupidity of the IDF, if such was in your mind.In Israel the law was ignored; in Thailand it was overthrown and dictated anew.The latter is much worse the former for the latter was the result of a military dictatorship which could continue to threaten the people and institutions of Thailand.

Let's wait and see what that old IDF comes up with. Miri Eisen is probably writing the scenario right now. Israel has made an art form of saying one thing, promising to do one thing and then acting in the exact opposite. Lets see who has the real power in Israel, the courts or the IDF.

Curious to know what Friedman has to say about the legality of the wall-barrier for the sheep flocks..... Will he back up Beinisch, or find convoluted reasons of his own?

Hey Ethan you forgot to take your Prozac this morning.

The IDF are just testing the powers of the state.

Labhras, If the UN were to rid itself of every "lawless society until it agrees to act in a civilized and truly democratic manner" then those that remain would be able to convene their meetings in a broom closet with room to spare.

I feel that it is better off that Israel is out of the morass that is Gaza.The majority of people who participated in the elections supported Hamas, and we should respect their desire to be governed by a bunch of thugs who are no better than the Nazis who ran the German government for 12 years. At least there is an address for the IDF to deal rather harshly with this gang and their supporters.There should be no quibbling about unintentional civilian casualties when an IDF action is to be carried out.

That Israel is going to "implode" is utter nonsense.Your death wish for Israel is understood within the context of a strongly Catholic country, so it is not surprising.Nearly all of the "international Laws(sic)/conventions" which #22 alleges have more to do with the recommendations of th General Assembly rather than the Security Council's orders. Petrodollars can purchase many votes in the UN against the Jewish state, and this has been shown many times.

The courts and legal begals trample common sense. This is becoming more frequent as the Moslem hordes descend on the US and through organizations such as Council on American Islamic Relations and their legal staff push arcane arguments and technicalities putting the rest of the population at risk. National security be damned.

What the High Court ought to do is issue an order to the chief of staff of the IDF or to the defense minister, requiring the destruction or modification of that particular section of fence within a certain amount of time, and if is not accomplished then the individual in the order would be placed in detention plus face a civil fine until the wall is changed.

Howdy Ezra; The wall being referred to is only 82 cm. high and, as such, is not a part of the security barrier (which the High Court has ruled to be legal provided that its path minimizes the inconvenience to Palestinian civilians). The sole purpose of this particular wall appears to be to prevent Palestinian livestock from crossing the road and has nothing to do with security. The ruling of the Israeli High Court should be obeyed on this one because it does not seem to be legislating from the bench, but rather, interpreting existing laws appropriately. After this particular wall comes down, you can alway drive your Lamborghini at 200 Km/hr. along Route 317 into a herd of sheep and eat the road kill courtesy of the IHC. Enjoy the lamb chops!

Dear Victor, In your post you make the rationale behind budgetary allocation very clear. But I am curious. Will the IDF have to put in a bid for extra funds to knock the wall down? Has the IDF already put its bid in for 2008, and if so, does that mean the High Court will have to wait until January 2009 at the earliest for the wall to be demolished? It can?t be torn down immediately, for as you point out, ?abudget is not endlessly avaiable for evry thing pproposed !? All that adding up of ones and twos appears to make executing the rule of law an interminably long process. Best just to ignore it and make the rules up as you go along. Regards.

Dear David, Both you and Johnboy are right. Johnboy analyses Israel?s actions from the democratic perspective and finds it wanting. You rule that the IDF is beyond the jurisdiction of the High Court, and therefore has no case to answer. But there is something that troubles me about the latter perspective. If the IDF does not have to obey the rule of law, then whose laws are they operating by? Can they make them up as they go along? Can any old Tom, Dick and Harry with an Uzi do the same? Can I hire a squad for the day to do a spot of debt collecting? Who do I pay, the hired guns or the Exchequer? If I slip them a retainer each month will they leave my shop alone? If I can?t cough up the dough, will they ever make me an offer I can?t refuse? Regards.

Dear Avraham, You ask, ?Since when is Beinish in charge of security?? A more pertinent question would be, ?Since when has the IDF been above the law?? At least this question has an answer, since 1948. Regards.

Dear bbl, In response to Clickfool?s post you say, ?In most countries (the U.S. and Britain included) the military ignores the supreme court?. I?m racking my brains but I can?t think of any examples of what you claim. Care to help? Regards.

in florida:#1 ethan

More scum from the folks at the IDF. I am so glad the high court threw the book at them. Thank you your honor. Let's keep this going? Grateful, Dutch P.S. Can I tell what a man said about the Berlin Wall as he passed it every day on his way to work for 20 yrs and saw the guard in the sentry box, He said he often wondered who the animal was -the people on the other side or the zoo- keeper. You know my answer.

unfortunately for israel, there seems to be too large a population of paranoids like you in israel. you sould go to a psychiatrist. maybe germany will pay for it.

It's too bad that she wants to dismantle the wall. As soon as there is a little bit of quiet and respite from Terrorism, the govt always does something stupid to jeopardize it's own citizens. Look at the evacauation from Gaza and the Shomron. Are we any better off today with Hamastan next door?

The IDF acts as if it is the sole guardian of Israel and any contradiction to its policies whether it comes from the courts or the state is something it can ignore. This is not the first nor the last time that the IDF ignores the courts or government ordered initiatives.

What is this nonsense Court?

If they have a good alternative, building gates at regular intervals, why not consider it before wasting all this money?

The leniency of the High Court concerning the ?evasive action of its orders? in this case can be understood by the prevailing tension between Justice Minister and High Court concerning competencies - The High is often forced to fill in a gap of a partially unfinished constitution where a number of basic laws are already enforced for a considerable time whilst a number of basic issues remained ? open owing to the existing opposition of the Ultra Orthodox parties. It is a thousand pities that the High Court has ?to maneuver,? to retain at least part of its existence as this court like all others in the country suffer of some general disregard in every respect.

The leniency of the High Court concerning the ?evation of a court order? is understandable only under the present government attack on the juridical system which function to fulfill the missing constitution which cannot become a complete one and operates on a peace basis of several basic laws. The gap created by this have so far been filled by the various juridical interpretations and decisions. The real culprit for the missing basic laws are the ultra orthodox parties who oppose a non theocratic and prior to biblical prophecies Jewish State

Dear Victor, In our post you make the rationale behind budgetary allocation very clear. But I?m curious. Will the IDF have to put in a bid for extra funds to knock the wall down? Has the IDF already put its bid in for 2008, and if so, does that mean the High Court will have to wait until January 2009 at the earliest for the wall to be demolished? It cannot be torn down immediately, for as you point out, ?abudget is not endlessly avaiable for evry thing pproposed !? All that adding up of ones and twos appears to make executing the rule of law an interminably long process. Best just to ignore it. Regards.

Both Dorit Beinisch and her racist friends belong in jail for crimes against the Jewish people(look at the court's rulings).

The UN would never let Israel leave the UN: what would happen to all those professional natterers in various committees or even the General Council itself? - they would lose all focus since no other member state is so readily to hand to castigate!!

In a democracy Labrat people can complain and bitch. The High Court has ruled and has all the power necessary to enforce its ruling. Israel imploding is just your wet dream. In this case we have a High Court that found against the government on the merits and now has found against the government for foot dragging in implementing the original decision. The court may even rule the state in contempt. Sounds like a healthy democracy to me - you should be so lucky in your country Labrat and Israel's neighbors should be so lucky in theirs.

Dear David, Both you and Johnboy are right. Johnboy analyses Israel?s actions from the democratic perspective and finds it wanting. You rule that the IDF is beyond the jurisdiction of the High Court, and therefore has no case to answer. But there is something that troubles me about the latter perspective. If the IDF does not have to obey the rule of law, then whose laws are they operating by? Can they make them up as they go along? Can any old Tom, Dick and Harry with an Uzi do the same? Can I hire a squad for the day to do a spot of debt collecting? Who do I pay, the hired guns or the Exchequer? If I slip them a retainer each month will they leave my shop alone? If I can?t cough up the dough, will they ever make me an offer I can?t refuse? Regards.

Israel is a democratic country where the rule of law is respected. Not every ruling may be to your liking but you cannot pick and choose. The High Court is an essential check on government powers. Live with it!

When it comes to security, if they rule they have to take responsability for their actions and be liable for their decisions. if the injury or death of any Israeli comes due to their decisions, then they should pay for their actions, how come all piublic servants are liable for their action but judges are not

Isn't the whole wall illegal?

The Court should be restricted to interpreting laws NOT passing laws. It has no business ordering the removal of a wall that provides security for Israel. If Judges want to usurp the legislative making role, let them run for the Knesset. They will never get elected. The security of Israel is paramount.

Dear Avraham, You ask, ?Since when is Beinish in charge of security?? A more important question would be, ?Since when has the IDF been above the law?? At least this question has an answer, since 1948. Regards.

Dear bbl, In response to Clickfool?s post you say, ?In most countries (the U.S. and Britain included) the military ignores the supreme court?. I?m racking my brains but I can?t think of any examples of what you claim. Care to help? Regards.

Clickfool said nothing of the kind. You said he said it without any verification. "Subject to more civilain control than most countires" is passing the buck and irrelevant. In this case of this colonists wall, the IDF was compliciting in circumventing the law and lying about its intentions. That is criminal, whether they perform as abysmally and lie in like manner in more or less cases is not the point. The IDF broke the law and you apparently defend them doing so. The evil you refer to pertains to the role of occupier that IDF plays and yes, that is a moral evil. And don;t come back and say that I condone suicide bombings as morally justified. I do not. That too is a moral evil. Two wrongs do not make a right because one is carried out by Jews and the other by Arabs.

"the long-awaited final say of Israel’s highest judicial body has reaffirmed the domestic legality of the 700km barrier being built largely inside occupied Palestinian territory; the barrier remains outlawed by the still-higher World Court." I just wonder what the whiners on this thread had to say when the High Court made the Above Ruling. Hypocrisy ??.. Regards

ISRAEL THE ONLY COUNTRY IN THE WORLD THAT IGNORES ITS OWN LEGAL SYSTEM ? THAT IGNORES INTERNATIONAL LAW ? THE LEPRECHAUN IS GOING TO OUTLINE INTERNATIONAL LAW HOW IT IS HEARD AND ADMINSTERED AND ENFORCED? THEN INTRODUCE US TO SOME OF THE HIGHLY COMICAL HELD DECISIONS IN EIRES COURTS !

"Even in the US, no other arm of government would dare defy the Supreme Court." In most countries the military does not defy the court. In most countries (the U.S. and Britain included) the military ignores the supreme court. Many things they do don't even fall under the jurisdiction of the highest Civil court in the land. But, by all means, go ahead and try to make it sound like Israel's military is especially evil when it is subjected to greater civilian control than most other countries. Distorting the facts for the purpose of making Israelis out to be mosters is what you are, most likely, best at.

harold,, The High Court,(in a democracy) is not there to do the bidding of the "Administration of the Month". It is there to interpret "The Laws of The Land" and issue rulings that the "Administration" is charged with enforcing.If the Administration does not like the ruling they can take it to the High court for a ruling,?????. Regards

WHY DORIT IS ALLWAYS PRO-ARAB, PRO-PALESTINIAN, AND SHE REALLY HELPS TERROR A LOT. SHE SHOULD BE REPLACED WITH JEWISH ORIENTED JUSTICES. IF SHE IS "THE LAW OF THE LAND" THEN WHAT IF SHE TELLS YOU TO COMMIT SUICIDE (AS SHE IS TELLING ISRAELI CITIZENS). WOULD YOU DO IT RIGHT AWAY? I WOULD ASK MY RABBI FIRST. HE IS MY MORAL AUTHORITY, NOT SHE...

eey are you really there Harold? the High court in Israel is what barrely makes Israel claim the "democracy" name. the rest is all apartheid, etnocracy and theocratcy. US is in NO WAY an example of democracy. specially not these days. if you thinks so just must not only be deaf, blind, missed out in school, "zionist in love with yourself" but also in need of a passport! here something 4 ya... http://antiisgood.wordpress.com/2007/07/05/israel-is-bad-for-jewish-ethics/ *huge*

how much have the catholic church in the usa spent on sexual abuse damages ?? try looking in the mirror before commenting

which still cannot operate as a true democracy because of the inbuilt structure of the catholic church ! that eire supported ira terrorism for long periods of time against all international standards ! thats its courts are mickey mouse because of "incest" amongst the legal fraternity !!

The whole tragedy of lack of popular respect of the HCJ is encapsuled in the lament of Justice Procacia as reported in summary by Haaretz "if it is how the State treats the Court's rulings, what can we expect from the ordinary citizen? What message are you interested in sending here?" Well, is not self-serving lament. Instead, the good Justices should ask themselves \" are we really representing the wishes and aspiration of the ordinary Israel citizen?" The obvious answer is NO! Strikingly, the HCJ is divorced from the people, and IDF is that people. Are'nt we the Israelis so proud of the IDF representing majority of the Jewish Israeli, and some Muslim and Druze Israelis, that have been melted into a pot to create the consensus, Israeli one shared by the majority?!! Sorry it is the people's right to lament for lack of representation of such an august institution....

Read therough these postings and what do you find? Ad hominem attacks on Beinish, as if this violation of the law regarding the illegality of this wall, is simply her fault. She is the guilty party, not the IDF or the government that baltantly refused to obey the law. Courts are one of the bases of civilised society, but these reponders have a higher priority, one based on race and religion and trotting out as a cover, the old security ploy. What is of the highest priority is the racial impulse, the us vs them and stick it to them. That the law does not apply to them because they obey a higher divine sanctioned law. This is simply another symptom of the sikness that infects the body politic in israel and is slowing devouring its soul, by this one law for us and another for them racism sanctioned by the government.

All these whiners on here bitching about the High Court decisions do not understand what living in a democracy requires. If you want a dictatorship, why don,t you take to the streets and fight for one. You really don,t have that far to go. Israel continues to implode.As a Member State of the UN it refuses to obey international Laws/conventions and internally ignores it,s own legal system. Time to rid the UN of this lawless society until it agrees to act in a civilized and truly democratic manner. Regards

It appears that in the Israeli scheme of government the IDF is a separate branch of government, superior to the executive, the legislative, and the judiciary. Even in the US, no other arm of government would dare defy the Supreme Court.

"With the current High Court system Israel can not claim to be a democracy." Great idea, Harold - get rid of the system of checks and balances.

the high court undermines, contradicts and issues orders against the knesset and elected government. It has to be disbanded and replace with a high court like the british or US one, where the lord chancellor is a political appointee. With the current High Court system Israel can not claim to be a democracy.

Vic, it's not so simple at all, because the IDF gets these enormous amorphous "anti-terrorist" budgets, and more or less does what it wants with them, depending on the political leanings of whoever leads some committee or other......

although i pity more by a thousandfold the palestinians who for that lack have no recourse. the court at least is allowed to go home and to move unfettered by any barriers along its path...for which the court is no doubt glad... but what of them for whom the court has ruled... who are forced to live the disparity of truth? and what of the idf whose defiance renders the court moot? they who yield only to zionist views... and who defy the state with every excuse... whenever the state judiciously rules... against the endeavors of extremist jews... maybe the israeli armed forces need be organized anew. not just comprised of israeli jews... but also to include arabs and palesinians, too. with a whole new leadership to the state sworn true. with the will to fololow through what they're called upon to do. for today in israel there is one undeniable truth, which is that the idf dictates what it will or will not do robbed of democracy; it lives under military rule!

This is not the first time that the government ignores an IHCJ order. There is an outstanding order to allow the inhabitants of a Palestinian village named "Kafr Bir'im" to return to their homes, but they are prevented from doing so by the government. For more details, visit http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Kafr_Bir%27im

in government budgets are proposed for different projects they are passed and funds are voted to support the project ! so if the anti terrorist wall was voted for in 2001 it has nothing to do with a project voted for in 2007! or proposed in 2006. in simple arithmetic 1+1=2 it is never 3 or any other figure ! so abudget is not endlessly avaiable for evry thing pproposed !

johnboy exposes courts who have no means of enforcing politically held decisions ! these left wing kangaroo courts johnboy are ignored because they are just that kangaroo courts ! no decison on land by any court has examined the basic rights contained in the 1922 mandate and attempts to impose political decisions masquerading as law . the idf is empowered by security concerns to ignore any court decision which imperils israel ! so anything its says is security can be challenged but not obeyed !

AL: "I for one am really growing tired of defending Israel as a sovereign state and then be shot in the back by some Israelis or Jews belonging to the extreme left." Sanctimonious twaddle of the worst kind. Anne, Israel is SUPPOSED to be a modern democracy. Democracies are SUPPOSED to behave according to the Rule of Law. That requires that the STATE accept the ruling of the COURT. Otherwise it is not a modern democracy at all, but a fiefdom. The highest court in the land makes a ruling, and the IDF says, in effect, "Stuff you, bitch!". And YOU find that defending this is a job that is both taxing and dispiriting? To find out WHY, ask yourself these two questions: 1) Can the French President or the French Prime Minister show the finger to an adverse ruling from the Cour de cassation? 2) Can the Armée de Terre bare its buttocks to the First President when a ruling goes against it? Olmert and the IDF can, and just did.

Avraham, no Beinisch is not in charge of secrutiy, but only justice and sanity.

JB claims Israel has only excercised sovereignity over land inside the GL and Jerusalem. He says the IDF has military control of the WB. The IDF reports to the Cabinet and the PM, not the Court, who rules on domestic judicial affairs. Yet JB demands that the IDF listen to the IHCJ when it decides it has sovereignity over the WB. He demands that Israel act as if it has sovereignity over the WB and that the Court has some mystical power over the IDF. Yup, JB's as consistent as usual, ignoring logic and his own arguments to always claim what he wants must be correct -- regardless of his own previous words and claims.

It goes like this: 1) Israel OCCUPIES that land 2) An OCCUPIER *can* *not* make permanent changes to the land under its occupation 3) An OCCUPIER *can* take temporary measures to safeguard itself So the finding the court must make is simple: was that wall put there solely to PROTECT settlers, or was it put there to FURTHER THEIR INTERESTS? If the IHCJ finds the former, then the wall is legal. If it finds the latter, then the wall is illegal. They found it was the latter. That ruling of the court is therefore exactly the opposite to your outraged claim; Beinish did not make her decision based on its MILITARY effectiveness, but purely on a finding of its NONMILITARY purposes. As, indeed, the law requires from her.

A wall/barrier almost a meter high, 41 kilometers long, costing millions of shekels out of government budgets, was constructed for the sole purpose of keeping sheep flocks from crossing the road, and preventing cars from falling (?!) off the road........ But there's no money for reinforcing school buildings and shelters in communities facing Gaza......( and our PM is saying more or less "go whistle")

so you are not telling the truth. YOu are lying.

A lot of people here are doing their best to help Israel. But we cannot forever figth the enemy within. Just let us know what you really want, please.I for one am really growing tired of defending Israel as a sovereign state and then be shot in the back by some Israelis or Jews belonging to the extreme left. Please let us know Thank you

The executive branch simply refuses to accept a ruling from the judicial branch, in contravention of all principles of democractic governance. See here: http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/884881.html It's exactly the same: the IHCJ examines an issue, and rules that the law says the govt of Israel MUST do this, or that, or whatever. And the Govt of Israel's response is to tell the Highest Court in the land to go get stuffed.

The High Court is an unelected body that is attempting to legislate from the bench and carry out executive decisions. The Court has no jurisdiction here and its attempts to insert itself into matters invoving national security is disgraceful. There should be limits on the Court's jurisdiction and this should be done in cooperation with the legislative and executive branches. the High Court of Justice should not be treated as some untouchable holy grail. It's costing the state millions and irresponsibly jeopardizes the safety of its citizens. The Prime Minister should unequivically tell the High Court, "you've made your ruling, now try to enforce it." Enough is enough!

Clowns dicker over enemy menace while Holocaust looms! IAEA found in Iran polonium-210, highly perishable, half-life of ONLY 138 DAYS, only used to make A-bomb triggers. Meaning: Iran to nuke Israel IMMINENTLY. Israel must drop neutron bombs on Iran and Syria NOW! Only alternative: H-bomb on Tehran but neutron bombs on military targets more gentle. But Iran so centralized it's a "one bomb" country if H-bomb used. Read: http://www.neutroniran.blogspot.com/ and http://www.israelnationalnews.com/article.php3?id=6835 Neutron radiation destroys soldiers, not property, no bad PR photos, dissipates quickly. One week later invasion is cakewalk. Invade Iran through Syria with ground forces to seize and destroy Iran nuke sites on ground. Then no need to nuke underground Iran nuke sites. Just take stairs, destroy with conventional explosives. ONLY way to get ALL Iran nuke sites: INVADE! Fact: Israel WILL nuke Iran. Only question is whether Iran nukes Israel first! Fire Olmert & nuke Iran NOW!

If Beinish is so adamant about removing the fence, let her begin by taking public transportation. Dorit, ther is an Egged bus waiting for you.