Hesder yeshiva rabbis: Torah law is above IDF

it was the zionists who brought jews to back to palestine; the Lord wasn't actually involved. as a matter of fact, early zionists didn't consult with Him on the matter much at all. He's been used quite a bit to entice immigrants, and He's been misquoted alot to justify blowing off His commandments and for deviations from His guidance on human relations... but that's about it. no direct involvement by the Lord. just the use of SOME of His words by zionists, for the purpose of negating others, in order veil their criminal treatment of the palestinian people behind a facade of divine right.

I am appalled that so many Israelis disregard the Torah and the Lord who brought you back to the land! What are you thinking ! That you did it all on your own? He wanted you there, he got you there, now he expects you to keep it. What is so difficult to understand? The rabbis have it right and G-d's instructions rule supreme.

I thought it is the ISRAEL Defense Force, and not the TORAH Defense Force. Must be true, otherwise it'd be the "TDF", when it is actually the "IDF".

"This letter comes as yeshiva heads closed ranks around Rabbi Eliezer Melamed," Well, there's a very simple solution to that. Anyone who closes ranks with Melamed should find his yeshiva given exactly the same treatment as Melamed's. And if that means all of them get the chop, well, no big loss.....

Barney, Funny you should mention the Altalena. If my information is correct there were two events that occurred at the time. One, Etzel had a agreement with the Hagana to share the cache and dropped off some stuff in Herzlia. Two, the Palmach is alleged to have organized a putsch that would overthrow the Vaad Leumi in Kibbutz Negba. Meir Amit doth protested too much methinks on the radio, but there was enough evidence to back it up. The Old Man, who was a closet Bolshevik could not countenance any kind of parity with the Right wing Zionists ordered the Palmach, in their final shot . . . at the Altalena. As it was, B-G postulated that neither the Mapam nor Herut would be included in any of his governments. By the early 50's it was clear that Left wing Zionists were gonna lose it . . . eventually.

they have issued an unmistakable challenge to netanyahu and the israeli government, which if netanyahu doesn't immediately relegate them to their place, will be his undoing; and might even become the beginning of theocratic rule in israel. i'll say again what i've already said about this yeshiva hesder program: the idf needs to permanently END it! it essentially allows religious zealots to infiltrate the idf with their agents, and what we've been witnessing among idf members of late is one consequence of that infiltration. and there is plenty of potential for other consequences; like perhaps war crimes committed by soldiers who have been primed, and who have possibly primed others, to "spare no one". but now, these rabbis are flexing their muscle against the state, in what can only be called "a power play"... and if bibi doesn't send them packing, he'll be opening the door for them to rule israel by religious edict... just like what's going on in iran!

The conflict between the government and the settlers is very similar to the conflict between the Hellenists and the Maccabees. The Hellenists wanted to rid themselves of Judaism so they could enjoy what they thought were the superior benefits of Western civilization. The Maccabees remained staunchly loyal to the Lord. The Maccabees didn't seek conflict, but when the Hellenists tried to force them to do things that their religion forbade, they revolted and won. So too will the settlement movement prevail over the regime of godlessness whose every act is a betrayal of 4000 years of Jewish history.

RIGHT ON! You took the words out of my mouth.

God would obviously not want these soldiers to remove Jewish inhabitants of Judea and Samaria from thier homes. They should wear thier tzitzit and refuse these orders.

What nonsense. If I were in the Canadian army and they told me I must eat pork or drive on shabbat I would say "Torah law comes before Canadian army orders"...its exactly the same here. These aren't extreme rabbis...this matter is pretty explicit in the Torah and elsewhere - these observant soldiers would make the right decision without the rabbis letter. Secular Israelis who want nothing to do with Torah or Haredim who dont want to work - go live somewhere else.

Natalie, I believe the civil law of Israel is the supreme law of the State of Israel. If you are saying Israel is already a religious tyranny, you are wrong. It is heading in that direction, however, and that is not stopped, it will be disastrous for Israel. Rabbinical chaos will prevail. The end will come for the state.

I agree wholeheartedly, these Hesder Yeshivot rabbies are starting to sound more and more like a bunch of Iranian ayatollahs, their aim is control of every aspect of Israeli life and society, unfortunately dismantling the Hesder program won't be easy if at all possible.

Conclude a peace agreement and don't evacuate the settlers. Let the Palestinians do whatever it is they do with the settlers....and then watch the settlers come to Papa on their own.

This country will have to decide between being a democracy or living in the middle age. Believe it or not for some citizens God is an hypothesis and belongs only to the private life. The only undemocratic thing in a democracy is the army. You obey orders and dont make a referendum before.If leftists or rightists dont follow orders they may go to prison. But it should be a personal decision, and not dictated by self appointed representants of God.

Hesder yeshiva 'rabbis' ?? They're a joke.

If we had to count on these Messianic rabbis we would have no state.

Not the Torah. Any calls that incite IDF solders to obey another authority are a REVOLT against the state and should be handled as such.

shalom please keep the clerics out of the military. it is time for a constitution. with-out a strong IDF we are lost. does anyone think our enemies will give grace to the ultra-orthodox?or for that fact any jew????? wake up and smell the coffee...

... use it as an implement to augment their power and influence... ... instead of a text for ethical guidance...

There is a VERY simple solution. Take the whole bunch of them, give them sticks, march them to Gaza and tell THEM to take down Hamas.

In the spirit of true journalism, I think it is imperative to give the names of the Rabbis and their Yeshivot who wrote and sent these letters to their students/soldiers. As well as it being the public's right to know, it also shows which Roshei Yeshiva didn't sign and prevents the general public from tarring all of them and their yeshivot with the same brush - which unfortunately disenfranchises the normal hesder yeshivot and leads to general antagonism against all instead of the specific.

Israel has no choice but to come down hard on these fanatics. They are destroying the moral fabric of Israel and making it look as bad as the Taliban or Iran. Shame on them! The founders of Zionism and the Jewish State are turning in their graves.

Barak and Ashkenazi should be commended for removing Melamed's Yeshivah from the Hesder program. They should not back down in the face of the other Hesder Rabbies. They may have to shut down the Hesder program altogether. This is Israel's latest 'Altalena moment'. The people need to unite behind a united army. The future of the State is at stake. And Ben Gurion knew it then with Altalena-which my Father was on.

There is no room in any society for clerics to declare that they are above the law of the state. Israel was founded as a secular country, not as a theocracy. These rabbis are advocating subversion and should be prosecuted as such. Meanwhile the most important thing Israel can do for its future would be to disband the whole Hesder system, and then convene a constitutional convention where some like a Bill of Rights will be enacted to once and for all get the clerics out of the state's business.

As if everything else was in order and we could afford the luxury of an internal rift of this nature, this declaration by these rabbis is an attempt to fight for the control of our nation - between its democratic, civil, legal basis and that of those who believe in a higher authority. Unless that state wins this from the outset we are in danger of being consumed by a civil internal conflict on a level far more threatening than any Iran bomb. This is a struggle in which the forces of orthodoxy will link with that other corrosive force eating away from inside us - the settlers. Unless the state stamps this out now the bases on which our nation exists will fall into the hands of theocrats.

the settlers remind me of the Basij!

C'mon guys. Do you really believe that the creator of the Sun and the Moon and the stars and the Cosmos, of the Galaxies and Infinity, would order anyone to wear Tzitsis and remove another people from their Homeland, in his name?

If you don't know the answer to that question then you have not been paying attention.