Hamas: New Intifada could erupt if West fails to lift embargo

These are the same people that wer dancing in the streets and giving out candy on 9/11 and the bombings in London. Why do they need aid from the west? Why dont they ask for aid from Iran, Saudi Arabia, and other oil producing countries. They can just as well afford to help them. Thats all they are good for is opening their hands and begging from the people they hate.

Joan of Arc did her fighting while residing in France. Your Hero, Meshal, stays safely out of sight in Syria. Meshal's contribution is to encourage others to fight, while he cowers far from the front lines.

Joan of Arc, one woman, one voice, one idea, overthrew the English occupation of France during the 100 year war. She overturned the IMMENSE cruelty this occupation caused - starvation (UN & EU newspapers decry Israeli starvation blockades of Palestine), death and destruction of innocent lives and property. THINK ABOUT IT!

Even Jewish Holocaust survivors have backed Jimmy Carter and *feel* for the plight of the Palestinians - "never again" [not just against one ethnic or religious group] - remember. The covering up of Zionist crimes in holy land backed by George Soros, Billionaire Holocaust survivor when attacking AIPAC and US Media. Soros quotes Jewish leader regarding US Media bias: "They?ve constructed a Warsaw Ghetto of the mind" People acting under the Zionist banner are no different than all other religious zealots that have harmed humanity such as the Jewish zealots during the 67 AD Judea Revolt ? burning food supplies in Jerusalem - and the new radical jihads perpetuated by Osama Bin Laden. How can call themselves a good observant Jew (not use force, love thy neighbor, etc.) and be a Zionist ? commit and covered up Israeli Apartheid and related legion of well documented crimes?

Hamas the beggar is the biggest dead beat I have ever seen. Hamas why don't you go to work, you able body if you can run up and down the streets hollowing and screaming.

Gaza could readily become a duplicate image of Beirut.

your alleged "Sources". You seem to be either ashamed or they're non-existent. The one time I found one (without your help) it proved that your post was total distortion of the facts. Arab doctors allegedly working on arab patients, when you claimed that they were Jewish doctors working on unwilling Arab patients. You also attributed remardsk to Israeli Generals that they hadn't made. Girl, talking to you is like participating in the Mad Hatter's Tea Party.

Having perused about 200 e-mails on this subject I must say you appear to be an educated person.. Could you possibly be one of the forms of humanity I experimented with in the lab? Once I taught an amoeba to dance under the microscope. Is it possible that you are related? Thank You..Sel P.S. The brilliant Edward Said that you cited was little more than an educated liar.. However! Somewhat higher on the scale than an Amoeba.

suggesting that you are not a suitable person to converse with.Please do not waste your time or mine.

You are rude Sara. And you think your rudeness will cover for your ignorance. I advise you to go to a Jewish Service in any Synagouge and you will find all the congregation are the true Zionists; faceing Jerusalem in their prayers, keeping the faith to be back in their land of Israel and keeping the faith to rebuild the Temple in Jerusalme. Zionism in not Herzl. But ofcourse,all that is beyond you; a product of misguided propaganda. Zionism was not a misfortune neither to the Palestinians nor to the Jews. As for the Palestinians they chosed to fight.They always do My 267# is not for you but for Haaretz that printed such an advertise that serve no good purpose. As for your other posts I read some of them, they did't merit any comments. Your post of 6/words made you a fully flaged Facist; holding a placard reading words loaded with hate. You know nothing about the Jews and you know nothing about Zionism, you are just selling a propaganda product.

I suppose by 'neutral' link you mean something that confirms your biased views.I gave you the two sources that I routinely use and one of them is www.imeu.net and the other is PIC.I don't bookmark these articles and I am not going to back and see which of the two.You can check it out yourself. My link did not say Arab doctors.They were talking about the Palestinian prisoners in Israeli jails and that Israeli doctors were conducting medical experiments and tests on them in their cells,against their will. You may not want to believe that but that is a wholly different issue.

You don't know what a neutral link is or how to go about giving it. The Palestine Info Center is BIASED, and not worth my time. Last time you gave a link about Arab patients being treated by Jewish doctors, you had the facts all screwed up. I went to your sources and they clearly indicated it was Arab doctors working on Arab patients. Get your act together, stop babbling and get serious, give MEANINGFUL LINKS. You keep on posting utter nonsense without competent sources.

http://www.pmw.org.il/---if you really want to know more about palestinians.

plain speech is not easy.Let me try.I thought I spoke in Queens English(or is it King's,too soon he has to wait )? Therefore, I have to assume that you can figure it out.If not ,I am afraid I will have to remain that Dickensian character you spoke about. P.S. I rather like Dickens.

Albert Amato your post 107# sounds like a question. I wonder why the Palestinians always choose the road that takes them to nowhere ? I reached the conclusion that they are more interested to live as International Beggers and get used to the habit 'forever refugees'; than earn their keep like the rest of us. The embargo is the BEST thing that has happend to the Palestinians. The more of it the better for them. It might..just it might made them see the real world. They are all politicians and that what made them all useless.

had given any signs of rudimentary intelligence.But now that you have shown some signs let me explain.All religions have a core of truth in them and also some degradation of the same.In my opinion Zionism represents one such.Christianity,for instance, to Christian Fundamentalism. If you have been reading all my posts not only on this article you can follow my train of thinking.I am not going to repeat all of it except to say that the birth of Zionism in the late 19th century with the publication of Austrian jew Thedor Herzl's Der Judenstaat(1896) was a misfortune,certainly for the Palestinians and possibly for Judaism.

As I watch the continuing reports about the problems regarding the release of Gilad Shalit, I have a hard time understanding the math. Where do these people get off demanding the release of so many terrorists in exchange for only one jew?? What boggles my mind even more is that some fools are willing to do it!!

Entertain your daydreams, foolish one---the day will come when the God of Abraham shows you who is in charge----and it is not who you wish to think----

There is only one way for this to end, but it will not, because you people will not let it. You scream and holler about injustice while you torment Israel---Lay down your arms and LIVE peacefully- that's all Israel wants--but your leaders want all of the land, and they will keep you hungry and angry in their attempt to get it. Wake up and see that your own leaders use you as pawns as a means to their own ends. There are none so blind as those who will not see.

" Zionism is the degradition of Judism" Sara. Talk is cheap Sara. If all that you have to say,mere 6/words in your post no.262, I blame Haaretz for printing it. What benefit such a contribution can be for any one?! Or for the advancement of any argument ?! Or to any matured reader,who look forward to read something that will enlighten his knowledge? Isn't that what Talkback is for ? Sorry Haaretz you have a duty to your readers and not allow free advertising. If that is not a free advertise to "a product"; I don't know what it is ?! You establised a code of standard to this Talkback forum, where such a contribution No.262 Sara stands ? I am sure the readers who value this forum and spend time to make it useful and runing are entitled for an explanation. I believe this is worth coming from you. Regards.

'Who is in charge in Gaza ?' Cipora. Did I read you right, do you mean who is in charge in Iraq, in Iran, in Lebanon, in Somalia, soon in Syria etc.. etc.. The Joke is Israel still looking for a Partner ! The bride unfit to get married, not yet any way. It is not the time to send invitations. ----------- PS:It is getting Craze by the day Ralph.Isn't it ?

'Comprehensive negotiation required'Levitt Between whom ?Did you ever recall comprehensive or any constractive negotiations worth the name between Arabs or-& Palestinians ? Name it and I will raise my hat to you with gratitude ? They practice Machiavellianism before Niccolo wrote Il Principe. The good thing about it, they use their own medicine between themselves. A lost case if ever there is one. Save your brith Levitt. A wasted advice.

thing to type in www.imeu.net or Palestine Information Centre. Re: books, all my sources can be found in any of these places: 1.Amazon.com 2.Bookstores 3.Public Libraries 4.University Libraries I do not use electronic books.I use the hard copy and I obtain them from one or more of the places mentioned above.

Acquiring land and expulsion of Arabs were his twin goals.Read The Complete Diaries of Theodor Herzl.

To: Ari ben Yisrael 251#.Your answer to Meir 11# is totally wrong. What Meir is saying we have no choice to fight whatever thrown on us. Ofcourse we had given sacrifises; the ones you mentioned and G-d knows many others. But, what is the answer ? Ask yourself ? To wait and give more and more sacrifises ? and for how long ? The problem was imposed on us because where ever we are, we are homeless. Without a home of our own,we shall have no end to the sacrifises that we have to give in every generation. You may lecture us about sacrifises but you are NOT telling us how to avoid them. We can stop giving them only when we have to stand to them and that is what Meir is saying. Isn't that the simple hard lesson of our history. I came from Iraq and I know what was waiting for me there if I am still there today. It wasn't different in Germany in 1933. And it will not be better in Canada some time in the future.History repeat itself mostly for the Jews.Israel is our last hope.

I can't imagine there is any Jew who is not a Zionist. The whole Jewish religion is built up arround the return of the Jews to their land and the building of the Temple in Jerusalem. Take these from our prayers and nothing left in Judism accept the belief in G-d and to obey his ten commandments. Zionism is NOT a politcal movement. It is not even something that was invented by Herzl or the result of the Dreyfus affair or any other historic incident."The right of the people for self determination" sg. is the minimum that one can define Zionism. On the wider picture, Zionism'is the right of the Jews to practice their religion'.It was not Jews who made their right to observe their religion a political issue.It is the world that made everything dominated by politics; religion and all.Jews needs not to fight for their right of'self determination' but the fight was imposed on them by unjust political aims; and politics made the Jews to differ on the size of their home land.

Dear Scotguy, Yes, the Ha?aretz newspaper is evidence that there are isolated spots of democracy alive and well in Israel. But you have still not answered my question. Do you accept that rebellions are legitimate? If you do not, then yours is the logic of the Holocaust. Allow me to explain. From a democratic perspective it is irrelevant about whether rebellions succeed or not, which appears to be your point. That is the logic that existed before WW2, and it led to the Holocaust. Post-WW2, there is a new democratic logic in place, one that has its origins in the thoughts and words of John Locke, whose ideas permeate the US Constitution, and also provided the basis for the concepts underlying the Universal Declaration of Human Rights. A nation state may be successful in putting down a rebellion, like the Russians in Chechnya, but in doing so they breach modern day International law. I will refer you to Article One of the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights, a legally binding document that Israel has signed, which states: ?All peoples have the right of self-determination. By virtue of that right they freely determine their political status and freely pursue their economic, social and cultural development?. This has huge implications. Very simply, occupations breach Article One of the ICCPR. It is the Israelis who are wholly and utterly responsible for the violence that is unleashed through their act of Occupation. It was Israel?s initial actions that were illegal, and continue to be illegal. Everything else stems from that first act of illegality. John Locke made it abundantly clear that the Palestinians have the full democratic authority to rebel, should they choose. And they have chosen to. For the same historical reasons we all chose to, to govern themselves. If you deny the act of rebellion, then you in effect support slavery, extirpation, and ultimately genocide. That is the logical outcome of the preWW2 mindset. This is what you stand for when you deny the right for people to rebel against oppression. It is a logic that demands that people go like lambs to the slaughter. To deny rebellion is to deny the Holocaust.

"Some" of the Ha'Aretz censors do it on purpose for that very reason *TO MAKE THE HATERS LOOK GOOD* BTW they also censor criticism of the Jewish "wannabees" from the Galut/Diaspora as they provide the Anti's with weapons to use against ISRAEL. Pathetic really!! I have often thought of just unplugging & leaving Ha'Aretz to their friends the jealously insane HATERS. But after 3 Wars I am STILL a PROUD ZIONIST & a defender of ISRAEL!

has been added to your list of recommended reading, alongside Mein Kampf & The Protocols. Was Carter not just recently voted the WORST US President in history? I can't see him winning any accolades for literature either!!

but then one as low as you would of course know that!!

to encourage more bloodshed. You are even more SICK than I at first thought! When, or should I say IF, you ever make it to live in ISRAEL & your kids are on the firing line I want to hear you repeat that jingoism. I want to see you stand up in front of the parents of Shalit, Goldwasser, Regev & the parents of the 119 killed in Lebanon and say give me MORE! You are a pathetic Wannabee just like your compatriot from Canada & the 2 from Durban, S.Africa! Better for ISRAEL that you should stay there too. But in SILENCE!!!

Philippe, I totally agree to agree with your assessement...:)

Yes, I know about the five. Brits are more concerned with hundreds of others that are still in hiding. I don't think the Royal family is sleeping too easy. Prince William is probably better off in Iraq. At least there he knows what the enemy will look like.

First, let's get back to basics AGAIN. You mentioned your "Sources", but didn't supply any links. I never, ever alleged or said that Jews built the Dome. We did build the two Temples that were destroyed. Your Dome was built on their ruins. My last post directed you to the photos showing the abominable condition of Al Aqsa in 1888. Now if you'll send those links along, it would be appreciated. Otherwise, I'll just continue to keep reminding you.

You should enjoy visiting among your thugs in Gaza, and have a taste of intifada among your own.

...muslim`s killing muslim`s.do you support al-qada in iraq,too?... I support everythings that crawls on the face of the EARTH that fight against the occupation forces of the US of America.

...which are you indy?... I'm a TERRORIST.

Hamas may suck, but so did the IRA when they were fighting the Brits. Now, the Israelis have their missile fits and this psychological impediment called: but-I'm-a-minority. Leave the Hamas chumps alone. I'd rather have peace with my new neighbor than take on the whole neighborhood with my bad rep. Get lives that don't make you the victims all the time. Free Palestine. Free Israel.

You ask if people can truly be Jews and also Zionists, then mention certain "orthodox" groups who claim this is impossible. In the first place "Zionism" is an ancient concept, the love of the Jewish people for their homeland. Labor Zionism and other forms that evolved out of the necessity of diaspora Jews to come home in self-defense, grew out of this original connection to the land of Israel. In essence modern Zionism is simply Jewish nationalism, the right of the Jewish people to self-determination - otherwise we are completely at the mercy of people who have repeatedly abused and even tried to exterminate us. Groups like Neturei Karta shouldn't be used as examples of mainstream Judaism. However, there are certainly extremists who aren't behaving in a humane and proper manner and they indeed shame us all. But I wouldn't blame that on Zionism per se, just on biased and stupid people. Finally, Israel has been at war almost constantly - that has an effect on people too.

Syria would be nothing without Iran. Iran is behind the training and arming of Hizbollah and Hamas. Most importantly, Iran is the ideological support of these groups. Hizbollah has said on a number of occasions that the supreme leader is the "jurisprudent" who is giving permission for all actions by Hizbollah.

Start swimming. Maybe home to one of the M.E. countries?

making a deal by getting others on your side, i.e. diplomacy. He did NOt say he was going to be a EUROPEAN colony,despite what you are trying to imply. Not like the Arabs in Palestine who clearly say they are part of the Arab race. See the Palestinian covenant article #1 Its available in English for all to see. Even a former Pal leader said "there is such thing as Palestine,it is Greater Syria." No matter how much it is denied there was huge Arab immigration from the sorrounding Arab countries. You know diplomacy or maybe you think sending terrorist all over the world is diplomacy.

What does the interview of Meshaal at Al-Ayyam add? Does Hamas' charter, calling for the utter destruction of Israel underwent any ammendment? So give us a brake, Abu Firas, and stop presenting the intellectual author of the murderer of more than 500 innocent Israeli civilians as an olvie branch extending peacenik. By the way, where in al-Quds do you live?

just like the one in Gaza two months ago, for which of course, the whole world is to blame, Israel at the top. In Syrian dialect, intifada means acute political diarrhea. So, collecting the bits of cryptic Arabic by Mr. Meshaal, what he is kindly warning of, is of a massive diarrhea of terrorism bursting in Gaza. From Syria, he apparently doesn't smell the ordinary Gazan political sewage.

the bible states that as the Day of the Lord nears,the jews drive the palestinians completely from the land of israel.the complete removal of the palestinians is another key sign of the approaching of Day of the Lord.the prophet obadiah states that as the Day of the Lord draws near a horrific war erupts between the jews,'house of jacob',and the palestinians,'house of esau'.this war results in all palestinians being driven from the covenant land.the prophet states that israel will possess the plain land of philistines,which is gaza.ephraim and samaria located in the west bank, are brought under israeli control, along with gilead. gilead is the east bank of the jordan river.

and its allies into pieces....it's prophesied in the bible.

steal land? you said,that the palestinians own the land.but how?.....the bible is the proof that the jews own the land.jerusalem was never mentioned in the koran.jerusalem was mentioned in the bible more than 800 times.

C'mon Viji come down to a common level,don't speak like a Charles Dickens character. What is your point?

synagogues etc. Thats the imperialism bit,show natives who is #1

Howdy Danite; If the Palestinians in the Gaza Strip are preparing a major rocket attack to provoke Israel to launch a ground assault with armor, then don't go in with armor. Use infantry instead with armor as backup in close support behind the infantry. Since there is nothing in the Gaza Strip that Israel wants except for CPL Gilad Shalit, there's not much point in going in on the ground anyway. It would be smarter to acquire a reliable anti-rocket system (which are available) to neutralize the Qassams, upgrade the MRLS and 155 mm Howitzer artillery units with GPS-guided ordnance to counterfire the launch sites, use drones and helicopters to go after moving targets, and shut off electricity and petrol shipments to the Gaza Strip (except for a little for hospitals and ambulances). The basic idea would be to prevent any Gazan whatsoever from ever setting foot on Israeli soil ever again and to shoot down any projectile whatsoever coming over the fence and to keep it up until further no

I like your style. Please post here more often!! We need you!!

this is it........the palestnians will lose gaza,the west bank,east jerusalem to make more room for the immigrating jewish people back to their ancestral homeland........

Palestine discusses this very point in Chapter 1.His end notes give lots of citations from Edward Said et al,and other sources.British travellers in the 19th century describe the land cultivated by the Palestinian family farmers as fields of waving green. The Mark Twain citation is taken by most Zionists in North America from Alan Dershowitz's The Case for Israel. Quigley's work is well researched and well documented.Revised ed.2005.

Vijaya for some reason refuses to state what he is (citizenship) or where he is from. Easier to play both sides that way. What you need to simply understand Vij is that the Arab world has put forward a proposal to Israel for peace. Assuming that Israel accepts this proposal what type of moron would believe or accept the promises of nations and a religion that regularly murders various sects of its own. Case in Point Iraq! The reason the Arab hordes attacked in 1948 was because the Arabs refused to accept the existence of Israel or a Jewish state. Naturally over history the Jews have had to accept being exiled and Muslim conquerors coming and removing them from their homeland. On what basis do you believe there can be a real peace?? Are all these factions and murderers really going to pack it in and call it a day because some Sheiks in Robes sitting on oil say so?? Hardly. You need to wake up and smell a fresh breath or reality. Jews were almost annihilated once, but it won't happen aga

I am convinced that if the palestinians have had leaders like Gandhi, they would have achieved statehood long ago, and by now live peacefully and prosperous with their neighbors. Though, I really don't think that when Meeshal speaks about a 3rd intifada (though in my opinion the second one is still going on), he has peaceful resistance in mind.

FOR PREPARATIONS TO ATTACK MANY PLACES WITH CHEMICAL WEAPONRY.IT TOOK THE BRITISH SECURITY A YEAR TO CATCH AND ARE NOW INCARCERATED AND HAVE TO SERVE A MINIMUM OF OVER A 60+YEARS IN JAIL.So ends this sorry tail,and more to come. The British Security and Police services are very aware and are not sleeping on the job. And diligently doing all that is necessary, and being very successful with it.Otherewise thee would have been many more massacres in the offing. P/S Sory for the caps,forgot it.

Quote " WHO IS IN CHARGE IN GAZA?....There is no one in charge in Gaza." , who at all is in charge of Israel , are US Bush or Usama Bin Laden in charge, are 2 states desastrous solution by US Road Map blunder or 2002 Saudia plot (imitiative) in charge, we must be drowsed or some sort of slaves ,If we are fooled by a whole fool incomptent Laic Gov't , are we governed by a Gov't without G'D, are we ruled by jesus or allah is great , are we run by Al Aqsa is good for the Jews , do we trust in G'D only thru the dollar writing, Herzel liberal Zionism vision or Montefiore messianic Zionism vision may be fine but have we ditched Judaism Zionism ways of life vision, wich could be seen as expressed in a couple of phrases in Hatikva's Zion National Anthem , Could it be that settlers are right despite their forced transfer from Gush Katif ,

Dome of the Rock !

JN: "If the security barrier is causing some inconveniences to the Palestinian civilian population during a period of armed conflict, then that`s too bad. Military necessity takes precedence over civil rights during war even in international law." There are laws to armed conflict, Jeff. One is found in Article 49 of the 4th GC. It makes all the settlements illegal. The wall dives deep into the West Bank precisely to protect those illegal settlements. Now, the settlers need protecting, *no* question - they are civilians. But there are two ways to do it: 1) Loop a wall around them 2) Scoop them up and return them to Israel Both give the settlers protection, but option (1) perpetuates an illegal act, while option (2) ends that illegal act. Therefore choosing option (1) over option (2) is itself illegal. Scoop them ALL up, put them back inside Israel, and build you honkin' big wall on Israeli territory. EVERYONE will applaud, even the Pals.

Meshal?s threats are old-hat and simply foolish. His hope that the ceasefire can be extended to the West Bank is more interesting, but lacks substance. Israel needs a ceasefire with the Palestinians, not just with Hamas, and there is no evidence that the unity government can enforce such a ceasefire. If the contrary is demonstrated in Gaza, then there will be something to consider. Comprehensive negotiations with Abbas with the prospect of enforcement-help and support from the international community, including the Arab nations, is what is needed now.

Keep the embargo and not only Hamas but terorrism will be dead and the etire region will have Peace. That is what I say. Keep the embargo and "that would not effect the Plalestinians but the entire region" That what Mashal is saying. Let us look at the facts : Hamas: Could not feed its people ? So where is the Power to 'erupt'.. ? Hamas: Can not have the Palestinians behind it in Gaza .So how it can marshal forces out side its crumbleing offices, paid for by donations ? Hamas: Is living on hand out;so how Hamas will fight the hands that feeds it. Hamas: Is a certified mad terorrists; lifting the embargo and the world will find itself keep feeding the wolf. Hamas: doesn't owes the world a living. Hamas: is living on threats'new intifad'. Isn't the first and second intifads finanaced by donations to Arafat the 'leader' who embraces the other leader 'Saddam' ? Now the 'leader' Mashal wants money to embrace the other leader Nasrallah. Tell him:Go 'erupt' youorsef.

translated by Harry Zohn. "For Europe we could constitute part of the wall of defense against Asia,we would serve as an outpost of civilisation against barbarism." Theodor Herzel,The Jewish State,p.52.

among themselves for 120 years and i think they simply did not get one

"pawns" who have been filled up with all the Pal.talk of destruction of Israel. Which is what you are all about remember your "Noooooooooo now and forever" that's the problem. Every war has population exchanges,every cvilised country has absorbed refugees from other countries as has Israel,the Jews from Arab countries and Europe the Germans etc.. But that is not the real issue is it?The real issue is to be found in your various charters and covenants and "Hani's" reply today.

you on.But let me give you a word of advice: none of us are going to give up what we do,publicise Israel's crimes,and so you are just wasting your time with these silly comments.Unless you appear in a sensible incarnation (and you well might) there is really nothing to say,is there?

Swim to Cyprus while you can Israelis. There will be thousands of Shabab-3's on your door step coming soon. Your army pales in comparison to Iran's; and Iran can marshal more resources and manpower than you can dream of. Support Livni before its too late. She will give the Palestinians what they need and keep quiet.

In his memoirs, Haled al Azm, the Syrian Prime Minister in 1948­49, also admitted the Arab role in persuading the refugees to leave: Since 1948 we have been demanding the return of the refugees to their homes. But we ourselves are the ones who encouraged them to leave. Only a few months separated our call to them to leave and our appeal to the United Nations to resolve on their return.The Economist, a frequent critic of the Zionists, reported on October 2, 1948: ?Of the 62,000 Arabs who formerly lived in Haifa not more than 5,000 or 6,000 remained. Various factors influenced their decision to seek safety in flight. There is but little doubt that the most potent of the factors were the announcements made over the air by the Higher Arab Executive, urging the Arabs to quit....It was clearly intimated that those Arabs who remained in Haifa and accepted Jewish protection would be regarded as renegades.? Time's report of the battle for Haifa (May 3, 1948) was similar: ?The mass evacuat

They don't have a written constitution either. When do you think they'll get around to it, so they can have a REAL country?

You put a lot of impressive sounding words together..do you know what they all mean? Because,while sounding impressive..you didn't really say anything!

I hope it does explode in Meshaal's and Nasrallah's faces.

We need to deal with the facts, Israel has for years made the calculas it can keep the settlements and maintain the occupation at a tolerable cost. Israel has been operating under that premise for decades. We had intifadah one, cost for Israel went up slightly, but for Israel it remained tolerable and so occupation and expansion continued. The Second Intifada raised the cost some more for Israel and Gaza venture had to be abandoned becaue the cost to benefit analysis made no sense. Resources were diverted to colonize the West Bank instead. The third intifada is coming as sure as anothet illegal settlement will be built tomorrow somewhere in the occupied territories. That part of the equation hasn't changed- settlement expansion galore. There is no reason to believe Palestinians will accept the theft of their land quietly. Round 350 is coming up and may the best tribe win.

A proof of Israeli democracy is that Haaretz, an Israeli newspaper censored my previous response to you. I doubt it weather something like this would happen in a pro-Jihad website. Anyways as a response to your "check matte" question, rebelions and crashing of rebelions are a sad fact of human conflicts. It is not because the Palestinians choose to fight Israel in every occasion they can and end up loosing that they are on the right side Israel is wrong. It just shows a lack of good leadership and thought. In my opinion Hamas should end up doing their little show and think more about the well being of their people. I won't say more because I could hurt your sensitivities and be censored once again.

If that nut job in Iran should ever decide to use nuclear weapons, he too would be on the receiving end. In that case, it would be advisable for you to caution Syria, Lebanon, Suadi Arabia, Egypt, West Bank & Gaza to vacate. As a matter of fact, you ought to look to your own security in Britain, since you've packs of potential homicide bombers & nuclear weapons seekers just itching to set off a loud bang, nuclear if they get their hands on it.

What new intafada?!?!?! the current one hasn't finished yet.

You wanna do some reading, look at 1888 pictures of Temple Mount, El Aksa Mosque, It looked like a garbage dump I'd be ashamed to dump my garbage in. Ask & I'll give you the link.

describe happened a long time ago.The divsions were created by colonial policy and the ambitions of politicians.BOTH sides committed atrocities during the Partition.Since you write with a certain ;bitterness,especially about Varanasi I am assuming you are Hindu.I abide by the timeless wisdom of our saints and sages and in modern times that of Mahatma Gandhi. Re: I recommend that you read intensively in the Israeli New Historians and not rely purely on official Israeli propaganda.And I am quite well informed about the history and current aspects of the Palestine/Israeli conflict.I urge you as a Hindu not to let your prejudices overwhelm your judgment of a very different situation than that which obtained in the Indian subcontinent.You may not know this but India was one of the 13 non European nations that voted against UN Resolution 181 that partitioned historic Palestine.Both as an Indian and as a world citizen you have the right and obligation to at least understand their struggle.

The so-called "Cease Fire" is a fraud. Kassam barrages have been unending.

Come on guys! I am being as civil as I can here. I have seen much more offensive things towards Israel and the Jews pass by here, and when I answer ridiculous accusations to Israel you censor me!!! I can't understand it. When they are not replied to you help Jihad apologists look good.

The embargo exposes the moral bankruptcy not only of Israel but of the U.S., E.U., and the U.N. Article 33 of the Fourth Geneva Convention forbids the use of collective punishments against people under occupation. Because the Palestinians had the temerity to elect Hamas to power in their parliamentary elections, they have had a famine foisted on them, the most extreme form of colelcvtive punishment. Europeans, and that includes most Israelis, are becoming the world's pariahs.

Boycott the NUJ, if you would do some serious research you would know that Twain's impressions of the desolate Palestine have been corroborated by other sources. Hijacked by the Zionists? Are you one of those people who won't allow the word Israel to pass through their lips and use the "Zionist Entity" instead?

I could almost see, as I read your post, some little, mouthy Austrian talking about poor, dispossessed Sudetenlanders...You've learned your craft/crap well. Now, if only you had two facts to rub together, you could start a true conflagration. BTW, have Muslims bombed and killed in your country? Is this why you operate as their mouthpiece as you do? My sympathies...

Maybe the Jews should have an intifada? In an case Haniyeh should be killed as should Meshal and any other Arab leader that is at war with the Jews

It's the same every where,Philip..majority rules..you may not have voted for Bush,but you're stuck with him for a while yet,only you're better off than the pals who voted for Hamas.They made their bed..let them lay in it!

The Arab world is keeping the Palestinians in horrific conditions because they want to blame it on Israel and prepare the world for the next holocaust. Saudi Arabia for example spends millions of dollars spreading hatred of Jews around the world (the Zayed Center, Sheik Sultan Bin Zayed Al Nahyan) into universities, i.e., some of that money has gone right into the pocket of the peanut farmer, ex US president Jimmy Carter for his latest controversial idiotic book. They do not care about the Pals and the majority of the world are too ignorant to fully comprehend what is truly going on. The Arabs do not want a two-state solution, they want an Arab state alone! It is only a matter of time when all hell will break loose. I hope and pray the leadership of Israel will be prepared for what is coming??????

juncture I wonder if it's not better to focus on the conjuncture.We who have seen the Palestinian struggle thro' the PLO may perforce have to shift gears and understand the new paradigm and the new player,Hamas.They are the first to win a democratic election in the Arab world.But they are also an interesting combo of pragmatism and idealism.The idealism may come from their Islamic roots,the service to the poor etc.A very interetsing phenomenon.Since I am not an Occidental(if I may use that word without being exclusionary I am not quite taken up with the modernity project).In Iraq we saw how a quisling(can't recall his name) misled the world with his WMD. Turkey has pulled on ahead in a way Kemal would not agree with,meaning leaving the Palestinians high and dry.I found Cambridge scholar,Dr.Khaled Hroub's book Hamas, a Beginner's Guide,extremely useful in understanding this movement which is at once both modern and traditional.Hroub is a secularist.M's interviews reveal that mix.

...or any other of Herzl's books? That in itself would disprove what you are saying. But of course, it seems completely logical to you that a people threatened with extermination (i.e. European Jewry) would conspire to find a "final solution" to a people that did not exist at the time (there was no nation calling itself "Palestinians" at this time). From this opinion, it would follow that Jews are superhumans that can forsee the future - so in that case, thank you for your faith in us, but I assure you it is underserved. We are in fact human like you.

Hi Danite, honestly, sometimes I think it would be the best, if this conflict would escalate in a way which would leave the U.S. with no other option than to force upon a solution on both parties. In Switzerland we say that sometimes it's better to have an end with a "horror" than a "horror" without an end. "Horror" = painful compromise The problem would be to bring the Arab League on board, because the Americans alone have very little influence on the Palestinians. Thanks anyway for being one of the few here who is also reading my "other" posts....

What then are you complaining about and crying poor. You have chosen war

who say they are in charge care nothing for the people or are interested in a state. They serve onlyone interest, destruction of Israel. Meshal has not got the definition of "aid" correct. Aid is a gift, not an entitlement. If he and Haniyeh were out of the picture I am sure things would go muchmore smoothly with the peace talks. Until the Pals get Damascus out of their politics, then nothing will change.

All of you people suggesting an ultimatum to the Palestinian people to end this sort of violence fail to take into account that the Palestinian people do not all possess a single opinion, did not all vote for Hamas, and do not all advocate violence... yet you would hold them all accountable. If you did cut off the power, gas and water it would not be the leaders of Hamas doing without.. it'd be the common people on the street being made, yet again, to suffer for the decisions of others.

Howdy Nick; The Gaza Strip and Areas A & B in the West Bank (where 95% of the Palestinians actually live) are under the administration of the PA and nobody else. It is the PA which issues ID cards and passports to its citizens not Israel (except in the case of Palestinians who reside in East Jereusalem). The Gazans are free to pass through the Rafah Crossing into Egypt and the West Bankers across the Allenby Bridge into Jordan and back again. The fact that there is a war going on justifies Israeli checkpoints in Areas C in the West Bank. The checkpoints may be an inconvenience to the local civilian population, but they are not insurmountable if one has nothing to hide. You are trying to apply peacetime law to a wartime situation. Instead of the nonbinding and unenforceable Universal Declaration of Human Rights, I would advise you to switch the Fourth Geneva Convention instead.

To judge his accuracy, here is Twain's description of Greece: "From Athens all through the islands of the Grecian Archipelago, we saw little but forbidden sea-walls and barren hills, sometimes surmounted by three or four graceful columns of some ancient temples, lonely and deserted---a fitting symbol of desolation that has come upon all Greece in these latter ages. We saw no plowed fields, very few villages, no trees or grass or vegetation of any kind, scarcely, and hardly ever an isolated house. Greece is a bleak, unsmiling desert, without agriculture, manufactures, or commerce, apparently." (The Innocents Abroad, p. 203) In fact, Twain (or Clemens) was not writing an economic analysis of the world, but he has been hijacked by the Zionists for one short, inaccurate aside about Palestine.

Vijaya it is sad you know so little of your own country's history. Northern India and Hindu Culture was devasted by Muslim invasions and mosques built on hindu temples - go to Varanassi and see for yourself. In a bid to end sectarian violence and hate Pakistan was created and hundreds of thousands hinus made refugees. India gave them sanctuary. India is indeed a true democracy; its 10% muslim minority has the same sort of rights that Israels 20% Muslim minority has - the vote, representation in parliament, ministers, etc. The Indian Muslim minority and their Pakistani brothers do not call for the obliteration of India- that is where the difference lies. But your reading of Indian history is inaccurate as are your conclusions about the Israeli Palestinian conflict

You say the Palestinians are "shot when they don't leave" - yet you yourself say that they can't leave. So which one is it? I'm sure you're aware that Jordan and Egypt refused to take back the WB and Gaza from Israel after '67 and '73 respectively, right? After all, if the casus belli of the 1973 war was the retention of territory by Israel, then why would Jordan get involved if refused to take back the West Bank? Furthermore, on what platform was Ehud Olmert elected? If you consider these questions you will see that you are making false comparisons based on the most superficial of understandings and that Israel is forced to occupy the territories because they are openly attacking Israel. If you want to see ethnic cleansing, search for a Jew in the Arab countries. From 1 million there are now under 1000. That's ethnic cleansing, and my grandparents remember it well.

meshal is quick off the mark with this new eruption, another hallmark empty threat. What is interesting is how Israel is expected to see the hollow threat for what it is and not act on it. I mean, are we supposed to take him seriously? Yes we should and act accordingly. Meshal proposes national suicide to threaten Israel, g'head ;p. We're supposed to worry about the hell he brings on his own misguided project??? umm, no, I don't think so.

She doesn't tend to respond to things that disprove her posts.

The Palestinians did not need me or any of the talkbackers to teach them about the crimes that the Zionists have committed since the day that Theodor Herzel wrote his Der Judenstaat (1896)and his cronies and he conspired to find the final solution for the hapless Palestinians.The Zionists bought their way through with their ill gotten gains,disposessed the Palestinian farmers,manipulated the Balfour D. of 1917 and fast forwarding to 1948(Nakba) and the subsequent blatant stealing of land called the Settlements and the daily murder and mayhem in the West Bank and Gaza(when Hamas had observed a truce only to find israel back killing their commander) and the subsquent kidnapping of S. and israel's furthr killings there and destruction of infrastructure.Just last week the atrocities against the 2 teenagers in the West Bank,Israel's hideous prisoners'policy etc.No, they dont need us to know israeli culpability but they do need us & the press to publicise Israel's crimes.

Hamas threatens a new Intifada probably with rockets, guns, rifles, missiles instead of rocks. Why the Palestinians have graduated from the Arafat sponsored David and Goliath of hurling rocks for world sympathy. He even threatens to kidnap more soldiers but extends that to Jews living all over the world. I am a jew living in Canada. What should I say or do??? I certainly don't support my government sending aid to a population that voted in a government that supports and finances terrorism. So keep up the boycott, starve your people and let them eat grenades, missiles, bullets because you are doing this to them. Not the Israelis.

the ones killing each other,you know,muslim's killing muslim's.do you support al-qada in iraq,too?

When Khaled Meshal talks about "a huge explosion", a single explosion that would affect the entire region including the Palestinians, is he telling us that there will be a nuclear explosion in Israel/Palestine? Whilst he may be bluffing, he may not be! So! I suggest that Israelis with dual passports, especially those with young or adolescent children, get out of Israel NOW. There are 20,000 Jewish citizens leaving each year, and about 1 million out of 5.75 million have thought about leaving Israel. Join them! Meshal knows what Iran has in mind. A single explosion of such destructive force to affect the entire region in some form or other means a nuclear bomb, in my opinion. And Iran may well have purchased nuclear bombs so that the uranium enrichment is a phoney war build up. Get out now with your children! You can always come back when there is proper peace!

The Palestinians would never be where they are today if not for Intifadas I and II. Each one improved their situation greatly. So III is the logical next step. Hahaha, just kidding.

over,don't come crying about the outcome.

Sadly the world has entered into an era where conventional warfare, mutually assured destruction, and killers running from their victims are no longer applicable. In Iraq suicide bombers blow up not only American soldiers but also Muslim brothers. Torch throwing youths hiding behind poverty bring the French to their knees. The British are whipped by none other than Iran capturing Her Majesty's Marines and extracting humiliation as well as other clandestine deals for their release. Yes clearly Syria, Lebanon, Hamas, Fatah, and of course their benefactor, Iran are all waiting to pounce and strike an Israel "brought to her knees". It must seem fairly obvious to the readers that Hamas is finally feeling the pressure brought on by the Boycott. Otherwise all the cash that should go to the people, but instead is being used for weaponry would solve immediate problems. Meshaal hiding in Damascus unlike his proxies living the day to day, makes threats. I think it is time for a new revolution!!!

what their getting now,have they.as far as the west lifting it's embargo,it's not going to happen until hamas changes,understand.

"The West continues to send aid to the Palestinian people to the tune of about $1.5 billion/yr. It just doesn`t go through the PA where Hamas get its nasty little terrorist paws on it; that`s all. " - Jeff "However, if Hamas could raise $1.5 billions year as you claim, and let us assume they spend that on buyign weapons, don`t you think we`d have seen much more sophisticated weaponry at their disposal by now? " - Abu Here's to hoping English isn't some peoples first language.

You pretended not to understand my post #68 when in reality my topic was "Mashal-Arafat say one thing and do another". Then in your post you said that Mashal in fact said.... I mentioned that Arabs fall victims of their own propaganda, and I think (ranting aside)the Israelis are sick and tired of the theatrical performance of disgenuine leaders who perform in words (In public that is ) and are not willing to do nothing for their people. What is the last thing that Mashal did to improve the well being of the Palestinians? purchase more weapons? How about using clandestine routes to bring the latest computers to the strip? Nooo that's against Islamic believes, however to win the masses you can teach religion and prepare them for suicide. In one word Al Qudsi, show deeds, and convince with deeds, honestly and sincerely as much as you are fed up with us, we are fed up with the Arafat-Mashal movie just as much as Olmert, they are way over rated. We need dooers on both sides Notalkers pls

Outstanding response, Tom. Outstanding.

where you are today!you must enjoy it or you would conside changing tactics.

Or, Israel might let you all fend for yourselves. You in Jerusalem, Israel, will still get your benefits. Pity.

do a google search.As for the question of my being anti semite,that's the silliest thing I have ever heard.I am not a Westerner and I neither have any collective guilt(WWII) nor do I have any tradition of anti semitism.India has always welcomed many races and religions and the Jews of the Diaspora were in that category.If you go to the west coast of India you'll find a Jewish synagogue there sharing a wall with a Hindu temple.That is our tradition and nothing you say can sully that.As for the word'zionist' that is what Theodor Herzel and his followers himself used.A 'Zionist' state was what he wanted and he expressly said that it would protect Europe from the barbarians.Uri Avenery has said that when the Jews came to Palestine they identified not with their semitic ancestry but with the Europeans.Herzel was Austrian.

hamas is showing it's true color's!

They were rats long befor they were cornered.

Howdy Abu; Well of course, Western aid does not go directly to Hamas or to the Hamas-controlled PA at the moment because Hamas is an internationally recognized terrorist organization and most Western states have laws which prevent the direct transfer of funds to such organizations. That doesn't mean that foreign aid to the Palestinian people has been cut off at all. The figure of $1.5 billion/yr. is probably an underestimate. The EU alone provided $937 million in 2006 (a 30% increase over 2005), the U.S. about $400 million (a decrease of 25% from 2005), and the rest comes from UNRWA, various NGOs (like the Red Cross, Doctors Without Borders, etc.), and some South American and Asian countries also contribute. This does not include any Muslim country. The money from the West to the Palestinians goes through a wide network of alternative channels. It just doesn't go through the PA directly; that's all.

Who is in charge in Gaza? Baal Zevuv, Lord of the Flies. Regards

Hi Jeff, the way it will work is this.Hamas and the other freak gangs under Iranian guidance are preparing the bait and trap routine for Israel.They are no doubt well stocked on anti tank weaponry.They will provoke a large Israel incursion with a wave of Qassams, then bring out the anti tank stuff from prepared postions.There is a great deal of co-ordination going on now between Hamas and the other degenerate gangs, Syria and Hizbollah and Iran.A storm front is brewing.Regards

Nonetheless I've studied "Semitic languages" in Marburg for a few years, mainly Arabic and Hebrew and a bit Akkadian, but other cultures also belong to the group of those who speak semitic languages: Aramaic, Ethiopian and other languages that share common traits, (for example the root Zayin-He-Veth (Dhal-Ha-Ba) for "gold" in hebr. "zahav" and arab. "dhahab"). There was also a Jewish-german magazine which called itself "Semit". But linguists debate if modern Hebrew still is a semitic language, and not rather a Slavic or Germanic one, out of structural reasons: a Tel-Aviv professor calls it a "dialect of Yiddish". You could also wonder if American or French Jews have more cultural traits in common with either the inhabitants of the middle east or with Amerinds and Gauls respectively. But the history of the hebrew language is still classically treated in semitic (or semitistic) linguistics. However, cultural borders have shifted and maybe "semites" don't exist anymore, if they ever did.

kind of jihad.let me explain it to you,indy,when you use terrorist means to try and get what you want,you will be treated like terrorist.which are you indy?

and it was often the only law of the land or it co existed alongside of the prevalent law of the land.Good example was the customary right of peasants in Germany to collect firewood from the forest.But soon the state intervened and passed the Law on the Thefts of Wood.Customary right was punishable now by the prevailing law,imprisonment,fines,doing free labour for the current owner etc. Now, in Palestine,the customary right existed for the family farmers to cultivate the land.Not to be evicted or to work as farm hands as happened when the Zionists arrived. As for the Nakba, I beg to differ.Read the Israeli New Historians,not just Alan Dershowitz.

Thank you for identifying the species of hamas. I could not agree with you more. They are rats Reb Bahir

I am still very confused about your alusions to the Scottish history, and mixing this with enlightment. Rebellions as well as the crushing of them are sad facts of conflicts, in wars there are loosers and winners, Hamas is choosing war, as the descendants of the Philistines have from day one of the creation of the state of Israel by the United Nations. The fact that they lost the wars they called upon themselves and that they continue to stubbornly do so does not make them right or wrong, it just makes them... well... unwise. When one choses to fight, one has to count on the fact that one can loose and the wisest thing when this happens is to accomodate the loss. It has not been once or twice in the history of humankind that loosers end up better than they began a conflict, just look at modern Germany and Japan. The case for the inept terrorist leaders of Hamas is that they just dig a deeper and deeper hole for their people, this is the oppression of stupidness.

I would also say that a New Intifada will probably erupt EVEN if West AGREES to lift their embargo. According to Hamas, we are in a state of HUDNA. Hudna means that they are taking time out to regroup and rearm before continuing their struggle to eliminate Israel. They have stated this openly, so why not believe them? Only the loony left fail to realize this unfortunate reality (Haaretz editorial team inclusive). Thanks to our withdrawal from Gaza and the free flow of weapons from Egypt into Gaza, the next intafada will have the potential to be a lot more bloody than all previous ones. Not a happy state of affairs. After dealing with the next uprising, of course Israel will be blamed for her actions, and the Haaretz editorial will continue to beat its chest demonstrating in fine detail all the evils that we have caused the poor Palestinians.

India has no buisness making a so called phony state out of Kashmir, it is under Indian occupation and it should return to Pakistan.Israel has declared the Golan part of israel does that make it so?? Of course when it comes to israel the old double standards come flying out dont they.

They know,they dont know,they know they dont know...when its convenient they know everything and when its not,they dont.Selective memories for these Palestinians at best.And when they do figure it all out...oooops up pops another 2 bit martyred gang and here we go again..There will ALWAYS be another group another 2 guys meeting in a cafe and bang we have vita ANOTHER martyred group....Who What When??????? Never mind Never Again what about I saw Nussink???????

Unfortunately an islamic religious party who came to power 5 years ago with only 35% of the votes has been undoing the secular and pro western reforms of Kemal Ataturk. The demonstrations were to protest against that. However no one knows which way Turkey will go right now. We hope that the Kemalists will win. Otherwise a second Mullah state might be rising in the Middle East next to Iran.

Unfortunately, there are many people here who would like Israel to simply go away. They believe that its foundation was wrong. What they fail to grasp is that it is not going to go away. The UN determined that in view of the Holocaust, the horrible Jewish refugee problem following WWII, the thousands of years of Jewish persecution, and the thousands of Jews already in Palestine, two states should be created in British mandate Palestine. In the areas with a Jewish majority, they created a Jewish state; and in the areas with an Arab majority, an Arab state. Whether one now agrees with that decision or not, it was done, and now the world will have to live it. Since you like Haaretz, here is a pretty good explanation of the progressive Jewish take on Zionism from this publication. http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/819499.html

Howdy Iakshmi; If you're try to base the Palestinians' claim to the land of Israel on "customary right", then it sounds pretty far-fetched and flaky to me. These so-called "rights" are not universal at all and vary significantly from country to country. I'm not sure what the rights of Arab surfs were under the Ottoman Empire, but I'll bet my boots that they did not include any rights to ownership of the land itself. In any case, the laws of feudalism are obsolete today just like the laws which legalized slavery and indentured servitude. Besides prior to 1948 and after 1918, the British Mandate of Palestine was under British law and not under the laws of the Ottoman Empire.

They're threatening the 3rd inifada..they're they're threatening more kidnappings unless they get their way...and more money.and they accuse Israel of extortion??? Beyond comprehension,unless your name is Hani or Marilyn.They are in full self destruct mode now..be at each others throats shortly,like rabid dogs.

Hi Danite, yes, sometimes I wonder whether it wouldn't be the best thing, if we would get 2 totally mad men on both sides (as if the current ones wouldn't be bad enough...). Means, the conflict would escalate in a way that would leave the U.S. with no other choice than to impose a solution. In Switzerland we say, rather an end with horror than a horror without an end. The problem is, the Arab league would have to be on board, the U.S. influence on the Palestinians is unfortunately quite limited. Anyway, thanks for being one of the few, who is also noticing my "other" posts. I am sure, I won't hear a piep from Cipora + Co. on this thread. P.S. Where is Tosefta...???

In light of Meshal's blatant attempt to blackmail the Europeans into lifting the embargo on the Hamas government, it is useful to ask who indeed is in charge in Gaza. The failure of any movement in the negotiations to release Shalit points to a definite disarray in the Hamas leadership. Just as importantly, reports, including in Haaretz, point to a split between the political and military wings of Hamas. Furthermore, these same reports indicate that there is a definite presence in Gaza of Iranian Revolutionary Guard elements, training Hamas military wing. If all this were not enough chaos, Haaretz reported this weekend that Hamas has no control over powerful feuding clans such as Durmush in Gaza, making it impossible for the organization to bring order into the chaos. Neither the police, nor the courts seem to function. Under these chaotic circumstances, Meshal's threats ring hollow. There is no one in charge in Gaza.

Dear Scotguy, I don?t get your jibe about the mix up with William Wallace and the Scottish Enlightenment. Are they connected? I thought they were separate. I think they must be at least 300 years apart. Oh well, back to the Jihad class I suppose. But I do appreciate your acknowledgment of the right of the Palestinians to exist as a nation state, I quote, Neither do I think that they teach that democracy and enlightenment is about accepting the right of other nations to exist Perhaps you could tell the Israelis, for they are the one?s doing the occupying. Or have I got the logic wrong there again. You?re right Scotguy, it must be the Palestinians occupying Israel, for that can be the only way to deny someone the right to exist. Should you care to reply, perhaps you could answer one of my original questions. It?s a toughie I know. Do you agree with John Locke that rebellions are legitimate?

Thanks for the comic relief!

None of what you said in 81 really matters. Nor does what Samuel Clemens wrote have any real relevance. Israel exists. It is not going to go away. You can write about 19th century travelers on this board until your hands fall off, but it will do no good. What we need now is to work for peace and reconciliation between Israelis and Palestinians. This whole historical narrative business is a road to nowhere. It always ends in ongoing and unresolved bickering.

The Palestinians waste a lot of money because they won't hire Infidels to be their Accountants. They also have to take hostages to get out jail because they won't hire Infidels to be their lawyers.

"The rest of the land will be subject to Arab rule, under Palestinian sovereignty, where Muslims, Christians, and Jews will coexist in peace. All native Palestinians in the diaspora will return, should they choose." You and I and everyone else in the world knows that will never happen. Instead of urging such a far-fetched plan, why not work for real peace between Israel and a Palestinian state in the West Bank, Gaza and East Jerusalem? Everyone knows that this is the real end-game. It's just a matter of how we get there.

I didn't notice.

Dear Jeff, I mentioned captivity in a general sense, meaning that a people do not have control over their own lives. They are for example, locked in to their ghettoes and not allowed out by sentries from an occupying army. They are issued with permits, visas, and ID cards by the same invading army, who also control the flow of food, medicines, water, the simple basics of life, into and out of the ghettoes, as a way of exercising full control. A control that is intended to force these people into submission, to give up their sovereign rights, to force them to leave. And if they don?t, their women and children are shot dead. Justas the white settlers scalped the women and children of the North American Indians. That is ethnic cleansing. Granted it is not on a scale of the white settlers. Perhaps we have the media to thank for that. The Israeli breaches of Universal Declaration of Human Rights are systematic and wide-spread. We cannot get their soldiers and politicians into the courts yet but I am hopeful that one day the Israelis will have to account for their actions.

"I doubt it very much that Israel`s is interested in anything short of total surrender." I think Israel would like to be rid of the West Bank, but before it permits an independent Palestinian state there, it wants iron clad assurances that this new state is not dedicated to the destruction of Israel. To do otherwise would be suicidal.

Lisa - Here's a good explanation. http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/819499.html

I don't know where you got the figure $1.5 billion but I am curious to find out. However, if Hamas could raise $1.5 billions year as you claim, and let us assume they spend that on buyign weapons, don't you think we'd have seen much more sophisticated weaponry at their disposal by now? You see Jeff boy you read so much spin that your brain has become a dustbin of figures and names to the extent that you are no longer able to tell fact from fiction. Poor you

It's time for Israel to stop this before it starts. Give the Palestinians a final ultimatum, "return our soldier, recognize the State of Israel, act peaceably or we cut the power, gas and water. The world will frown and call us inhumane, but at this point we would be acting to prevent a new war.A war which Hamas itself has called for repeatedly. I'd just like to see how popular Hamas would be if the entire population of Gaza were suddenly required to be self dependent. After all that's what they want...so give it to them...

Do a search for Bradley Burston's columns and find the one that speaks to his being a pround Zionist. It is an excellent explanation.

I thought your first post was absurd but decided to give you the benefit of the doubt by giving you something to think about but instead of engaging your brain, you decided to become even more stubborn by posting a reply so ridiculous it is almost laughable. Do you think millions of people would just happily go along with being pawns for convenience? If the answer is yes then you are one of tow; a rabid racist or a seriously deluded fool...

Another "war" in Gaza between Israel and the Palestinians has a good likelihood. If the cease fire is not extended to the West Bank (which so far Israel is refusing to do), then casualties in the West Bank will bring revenge Qassams from Gaza, and heavy Palestinian casualties will bring in Hamas (as recently happened). Another possibility for chaos in Gaza is a civil war between Hamas and Fatah, which will happen if the West continues with the Gaza siege and Israel refuses to talk peace with Abbas, as is currently the case. Who is being threatened by all this? The neighboring moderate Arab regimes will be the first to suffer. The Arab masses will get passionate and accuse their rulers of collaborating with the US and Israel while deserting their Palestinian brothers. Perhaps the Saudis and other rich Arab states will increase their support to the PA to make up for the losses from the siege. In any case, if there is no development on peace talks between Israel and Abbas, another Intifada is likely. Hamas is rearming and retraining. One way or another, an explosion will occur.

There are no people called "Semites" and the term antisemite was invented to denote hatred of Jews. So stop with your juvenile posts, please.

We call ourselves Jews because we were born Jews. We don't have to prove any degree of "faith" to you. I'll choose Zionism over Judaism if it means the defense of the Jewish people.

Last time I remember, Livni asked Europe to maintain the embargo against the Hamas government. If any country has the right to complain about Hamas behaviour, it's Israel. So, I think we should listen to Israel. But I really wonder if Israel can do much. I'd say, the Palestinians need people who work among them, who stand beyond the factions of Fatah and Hamas. Such people like Bashir, who was once under discussion for the position of prime minister, could have been a beginning, but he's probably still too much inside of it and thus an object for other nations interests. Maybe Westerners from outside could do something, people with good nerves of steel who can swallow a good deal of anger and hatred and later spit it into the arrogant faces of their Western homeland societies. If only it wasn't so dangerous to go there! I wonder how people like Amira Hass could do it.

Your simplistic posts are juvenile.

If Hamas were to attack the United States, we wouldn't treat them near as kind as does Israel. Further, any anger and hate the Palestinians have gladly embraced is a direct result of their moral code and religious instruction. It is not me they're hurting. It's their children. Embrace away! It is Palestinian children that Hamas fires upon in front of their elementary schools. Someday they may love their children enough to teach them that cold blooded murder is not moral, but I doubt it will be any time soon.

Customary law did not exist in every country, such rights only existed where they were recognized by the law of the land. You cannot retroactively attribute right to people that did not legally have them, then blam others for not respecting them, still less can one use such as a justification for violence, and still less can on use retroactive attribution as justification for the attempted genocide of the Jews, which backfired and became "al naqba". Such atrocities, whether successful or not, have no justification, and what has resulted therefrom can properly be seen as having been caused thereby.

I totally agree with you that violence will not solve anything and that is precisely why the Israeli government need to abandon its current policy and seek peace. If you've read what Meshal said in the interview quoted in this article, you'd realize how far his movement has come in the last few years. The problem however is not Meshal, the Hamas leader lives in exile and is not a leader of an occupying force. The problem lies with the Israeli government who is not prepared to do what is needed to put an end to the conflict which is a full and unconditional withdrawal from the occupied territories.

Basically, you are preaching all Arab countries go for Dooms day deterrent against Israel.

Hi Danite: At least Kashmir is a STATE in the Indian Republic which sends representatives to the Indian Parliament. Does Palestenians in Occupied Territories send its representatives to the Israeli Parliament OR even be State. Please WRITE YOUR CONSTITUTION FIRST. You dont even have a written CONS... You dont even know what you are. Having an Independence Day is NOT enough. You need to have a Republic Day too!!

... but you are wrong. Yes, they should have gone back to where they came from but they made better pawns sitting in refugee camps. Their fellow Arabs preferred to tell them to sit and wait to retake Haifa and Jerusalem. How sad that theiy were not taken care of by their own people.

Out of Turkey's horrendous defeat in World War 1, came one of history's greatest men, Kemal Ataturk. He did not threaten the victors with intifadas, he faced the backward forces in his country, like the religious and the "great destinies" crowd, and put them in their place. He was a fabulous reformer, and tried to bring this giant illiterate and backward country into the modern era. Turkey today is far from perfect, but there is none like it in the Islamic world. Today his memory lives on.Witness yesterday's massive demonstration in Istanbul.

Howdy Abu; The West continues to send aid to the Palestinian people to the tune of about $1.5 billion/yr. It just doesn't go through the PA where Hamas get its nasty little terrorist paws on it; that's all. The salaries of PA civil servants are being paid by the EU and the U.S. through a special arrangement with the World Bank or through the Office of the Chairman thus bypassing the PA. If the security barrier is causing some inconveniences to the Palestinian civilian population during a period of armed conflict, then that's too bad. Military necessity takes precedence over civil rights during war even in international law. I don't know about the long term; that would depend on where the border winds up being, but until then, the security barriers will prevent over 95% of all Palestinian ground terrorist attacks from getting into Israel. Long term would also require Israel to develop, acquire, and deploy a reliable anti-rocket system to shoot down projectiles coming over the fenc

NO MORE DEALS - NO MORE CAVING TO THREATS NEXT TIME - IF ANOTHER WAR OF TERROR IS INITIATED _ HIT BACK HARD SHOW NO MERCY - PUT AN END TO REWARDING TERROR ONCE AND FOR ALL

Israel exists! quit it with the low self-esteem, hold your heads up high and let the Palistinian people live in peace.

Of the following I am totaly convinced. 1) Both peoples are so cynical, depressed, fearful and burned out they cant take any more failed expectations and destroyed hopes 2) Only an imposed solution by the US on both sides will have any chance of working 3) If their is another summer war which looks likely the pressure for a solution will be so intense that the US will have to act. 4)The Bush administration will act in one or two ways A) either they will do so as they will so desperate to salvage something of their reputation and stop their defeat in Iraq from becoming a total defeat of the US in the ME B) they will be so burned out we will have to wait for a new administration. Regards

Gina, I remember very well, that I personally addressed you as well as Jacob Blues when you came up with that stuff a few weeks (or rather months..??) ago. You know very, very well that I encouraged the Palestinians to start a totally PEACEFUL third Intifada. So why the swindling now...?? How does that correspond with your claim that you are only interested into the "moral" aspects of the ME conflict...?? Is (intentional) swindling allowed for the apologists of the (extreme) right in Israel...?? Part of the game...??

BTW, AID is a GIFT!

the green fields it is important not to just read Alan Dershowitz who quotes Mark Twain.Read Rashid Khalidi 'The Land Question in Palestine' in Edward Said & C.Hitchens (eds.)Blaming the Victims:Spurious Scholarship and the Palestinian Question(1988). About the British travellers who in the 19th century prior to the advent of the Zionists in the area talked about the waving fields of green,read John Quigley's The Case for Palestine(1990)(chapter 1,and notes)

Meshaal is the absolutely correct embodiment of his people; he sounds like a perfect example of a three-year old who's not getting his way. As others here have pointed out, the Palestinians actually still think they can threaten to kill people if they don't: a.) get $$ for rockets/weapons, or b.) get to kill Jews unimpeded. Honestly, they are in this frame of mind from reading all the BS that people like Lakshmi and her/his ilk spew forth on a hourly basis. These "children" need to go back to their "Mommies" in Arabia, already! Or die...

The Zionists you are refering to are millions of jews,of course saying Zionists make it easier for jew haters like you to propose their extermination.These days saying destroy the Jews of israel doesnt catch on like it used to, so now it is destroy the Zionists.FREE KASHMIR! END INDIAN IMPERIALISM!!!!

israel has given rise to so much hate .. anger.. desparation among the palestinians.. that it is not a question of if, but when the third intifada erupts. as for smoking the hamas leadership... it wouldnt make a speck of a difference... there are many , even more angry ..and extreme... whod take their place. careful gina... youd get burnt as well

countries before the advent of private property.Germany in the early 19th century,where the peasants had customary rights such as being able to collect firewood from the forests.The German Parliament subsequently passed the Law on the Thefts of Wood.So, they abolished the customary right.In England,earlier still the Commons.In India,the customary rights of peasants who collectively owned the land. Today , where the prevailing system is either private property or State owned Public property there is no longer any customary right.That does not mean that it never existed.In 19th century Palestine, the Palestinian farmers held that same customary right,and expected to continue to cultivate it,even though the absentee landlords held the legal rights by the favour of the Ottoman Turks.They were then disposessed by the Zionist "purchase" of this land from the absentee landlords.By the way, it was also not all monetary transactions,there was some outright coercion and driving out of peasants

Syria re arming Hizbollah, Iran training the gaza freaks, spurious offers of PEACE NOW!from Assad, now israel is to face an intifada because the west doesnt believe the Hamas BS.All this equals a summer war.These fools are walking into a trap theyhave set for themselves.You see, the Arab ego mongering power deluded trip makes them think it will be like last summers war, well Gabi Ashkenazi has things ready to go.Heed the words Dan son of Dan! Be still Fools and you Kings of Amalek and the servants of Aram and trouble not the Tents of Israel lest you be blown like chaff before the wind!!

Howdy Nick; What servitude? How many Palestinian slaves have you counted lately? What genocide? Are you talking about the Palestinian casualties caused by their futile efforts to destroy the State of Israel for the past 59 years? What ethnic cleansing? Have you seen any Palestinians being forcibly transferred anywhere since 1948? What captivity? Aside from about 9200 Palestinian prisoners being held by Israel on legitimate charges or as combatants during a period of armed conflict, the rest of the Palestinian population are as free as birds under the glorious, enlightened, and freedom-loving administration of the PA. I hate to have to point this out to you, but the Universal Declaration of Human Rights does not declare that captivity is a crime against humanity if there is a valid reason for the incarceration. Besides, the UDHR is an UN General Assembly resolution (UNGAR 217) and is not a part of the body of international law, but rather, is an ideal to be strived for only.

You are right to a certain extent. In my opinion things must move forward, but threatening/warning about a new intefada without acknowledging that Israel is not going away and has just as much right to exist as does Palistine,will not solve anything. Violence has not produced peace- only more violence. Remember that before Rabin was assassinated, there was peace and a sense that the future of this area was full of all sorts of wonderful possibilities. it's all dead now- just like the thousands on both sides ofthe borders. It's time for people like Meshel to stop thinking in the old way and open their eyes to possibilities other than intefadas and murder.

Appears to begin with the idea that some people are entitled to intentionally target and kill innocent people, and that it is blackmail to withhold aid money from them on the condition that they behave like civilized human beings. Some people seem to think that by the election of a murderer, one receives the right to murder without consequences.

Dude, Nice mix-up of William Wallace and "scottish" enlightment. I don't think they teach much of this in Jihad classes. Neither do I think that they teach that democracy and enlightenment is about accepting the right of other nations to exist. Palestinians are in the situation they are because they are chosing it. Right now who is oppressing them is themselves in voting on inept leaders whose only aim is to maintain an artificial war situation, which they know that they will never win, to mask their incapacity of ruling their people. Actually they have this in common with all theocratic movements and governments. Right now the Palestinians are under the dictatorship of stupidity which is the worst of all.

the lack of good leadership and the continual use of their people as pawns. If they REALLY wanted peace and prosperity for their people, then they would only have to adopt the conditions of the Quartet and stop the violence, give up the goal of Israel's destruction and abide by the treaties. The problem, my dear, is that the terror groups of Islamic Jihad and Hamas will always, ALWAYS sabotage their people and Israelis with persistent attacks.

Lisa, The answer to your question is undoubitably "yes". Of course one can be both an observant Jew and a Zionist. Zionism, after all, is nothing more than the proposition that Jews, like all other peoples on Earth, are entitle to self-determination, a right set forth in the UN Declaration on the Rights of Man. I have yet to read a principled argument as to why the Jewish people should not be so entitled. The funny bit (and by "funny" I mean it in the sense of being "odd", not "ha-ha funny") is that the self-styled "progressives" who go on and on constantly about rights being denied to Palestinians can't ever seem to focus at all on the fact that the road to the current situation was paved by Arab parties seeking to deny those rights to the Jewish people. The Arab position (excluding the recent "Saudi vision" which is contradicted by the folks with the guns and bombs in Gaza and their handlers in Damascus) has never been one of mutual respect of rights.

Nick, your logic is empty. Israelis have the right and obligation to resist the "resistance" and other crimes against humanity that the Arab terrorists routinely use to make their issue better known. Your claims of "ethnic cleansing" are nothing more than false claims to draw attention away from the lack of morality guiding the Palestinian terrorists.

Bring it on. After Winograd, Likud is going to be in charge and then the gloves are coming off. You'll be lucky to have zataar and salt after this.

It?s obvious from your post that you are no scholar or even a junior student of history. There were never Arab emigrants to Palestine prior to the creation of Israel in 48. Arab society is by and large a tribal society where the extended clan rules. The majority of the Palestinian were farmers, peasants and land owners who have been living on the land for hundreds even thousands of years and can trace their ancestors to the Arab conquest in the 7th century. Furthermore, if those Palestinians who are now living in refugee camps in Jordan, Syria and Lebanon were not Palestinians as you falsely claim, so how come they didn?t go back to their original villages and towns after the 48 war? Surely life would have been much easier than rotting in a refugee camp dreaming about returning home. Don't you think?

He orders intifadas from the comfort of his exile while those who follow his orders end up suffering more because of it, while destroying peace efforts that would have succeeded already had terror stopped.

Meshal is right the West should end the embargo now. It's unconscionable to push the Palestinian people over the edge like this when they were only exercising their democratic right. Shame on the apologists in the EU and US --they don't represent good and decent people anymore. Dutch

I think even you Jeff can work out that it?s the US and Israel who are doing the blackmail and extortion not the Palestinians. The Palestinians Authority is the main employer in the occupied territories and it has to pay the salaries of doctors, teachers, municipal workers, civil servants, police men etc so if Israel can get away with withholding the money it owe the PA and if the US administration can bully Arab and European countries from giving aid to the PA while Israel continues to enjoy very generous US annual hand outs in excess of $3 billion , I think that gives you a clear picture why the aid is so vital to the besieged Palestinian population! As for the apartheid wall which Israel has been building well inside the occupied territories which is causing the Palestinian population a great deal of hardship and suffering, I doubt it very much Jeff that this wall is going to be the answer to Israel security concerns in the long term.

Post #87 "zionism calls its opponents anti-semites and that is unfare to the jews and other people like the lebanese who are semite. the jewish people can not live with pride because zionism which looks good on paper is in reality going against its cause and shaming jews around the world." ----- My comments.... Communism looked good on paper too! A Jewish young woman told me that many Orthodox Jewish leaders associate Jewish religious radicals/zealots now called zionists (past and present) with trouble and people who are not following (or acting in accordance with) the Jewish values and faith. This would hold true with all religious zealots regardless of the religion they were born into. Can one be truly Jewish -following their faith- and be a Zionist?

Dissolving the PA might just work.Abbas seems ineffectual and Hamas is there to stay.They also seem quite pragmatic.They might just be the people to break the impasse and as the blogger suggested Israel might come to its senses and start begging for someone to negotiate with,on equal terms.

And here, I thought that Hamas simply hated Israel and the Jews enough to want to kill them all. Silly me.

But have you ever wondered what it is for a people to live under a brutal military occupation? Do me a favour.At least read Jimmy Carter's book:Palestine,Peace,not Apartheid. You might begin to get a glimpse of what the Palestinians are going through.

Howdy Iakshmi; Tenant farmers, migrant workers, and renters do not own the land on which they reside. Where in the world did you get this concept of "customary right"? There is no such animal in national or international law otherwise anybody could squat on somebody else's land and claim it as theirs after a few years. I'm afraid that in 1947 about 60% of the British Mandate of Palestine (minus Trans-Jordan) was public land owned by the British Crown, 33% was owned by Arabs (most of it by absentee landlords who lived in Damascus or Beirut), and 7% was owned by Jews. Under the Ottoman Empire, the percentage of public land was closer to 80% and was not privately owned.

Sadly I fear your 'research' into Zionism may have consisted of a couple of 'google' sessions, yielding 'information' from dubious sources. True Zionists are the enlightened, often well educated Jews, who have had enough of the BS/pogroms/anti-Semitism in the Diaspora, & who want security for their families in their own vibrant, thriving country. Accusing them of being 'nazi-like', war mongers, ethnic cleansers & so on, could hardly be further from the truth. It is beyond me that this kind of post makes it past the editor of a Zionist media publication. Debate the situation by all means, & at the very least, get your facts straight!

and rule colonial policy and the ambitons of politicians.Both communities did bad things during the Partition riots.If you read about the Indian freedom struggle the facts are there.Muslims and Hindus had lived together for centuries.They contributed to our national life(Taj Mahal) and continue to do so even now.Our President is a Muslim and a distinguished scientist.Occasionally,animosities flare up.That's normal.But by and large the Muslims of India are content to live there and a Muslim cleric wrote a song for Muslim schoolchildren: "India,our country,the best country in the world!" We all want that to continue.We work on our problems.More needs to be done.India has always been hospitable to various religions and ethnic groups.Jews from the Diaspora came and were taken in.There is a synagogue side by side with a Hindu temple.

Like Arafat, all Meshaal has ever brought to the people he purports to defend, is war and poverty. When will the Palestinian people wake up and realize that Hamas is hurting them?

Well said. They live the lives of professional beggars. If you don't give tham this or that or if you are not willing to commit suiside they will resourt to violence. Only jews are craizy enough to allow that to continue.

I mean the rocket-firers' wage is 5.000 dollars (a launch or day?) per man? Howcome they have money for their wages, though PA should be "broke"? I thought there is famine in Gaza? And isn't that the reason why they want the embargo lifted in the first place? Sorry the silly questions, I think I've lost it completely!

Dear Scotguy, Your posting has an inevitable logic about. But it is not the logic of freedom. It is the logic of oppression, servitude and ultimately genocide. You casually blame the Palestinians for the condition of their captivity. Captivity is as far as I know a crime against humanity; the Universal Declaration of Human Rights makes that abundantly clear. You suggest the Palestinians compromise? With who, the Israelis? There is no way to mediate with the forces of extirpation. Ethnic cleansing aside, rebellion is legitimate. That conclusion is one of the abiding outcomes of the Scottish Enlightenment. I am surprised to see how cavalier you are in disenfranchising the Palestinians from the same process that has given you your freedoms. Which side would William Wallace choose? Or do you condemn him as well?

Sara, You must read Mark Twain again. He was there, you were not. Look at the stats on the amount of Arabs that started flowing in to Palestine because the Jewish immigration spurred an increase in economic conditions. Why be poor in Egypt when you can migrate to the Jewish country and make a buck or two? Please tell me more about the great wheat fileds billowing in the wind and the vast olive groves that spread from the north to the south. You can't because the so called "Palestinians" are new immigrants. The only difference being that Jews have a historical claim to the land, the Palestians don't.

Here in America the wrod Zionism is not used in the media. I don't think i ever even heard about it untill i start reading haaretz. my views on what zionism means comes from my research on the subject and comments that zionist make in these talkback section. Just because looks good on paper deosn't mean that they are the same in the real world. After reading many of these talkbacks i zionist has only showed hatered. zionism calls its opponant anti-semites and that is unfare to the jews and other people like the lebanese who are semite. the jewish people can not live with pride because zionism wich looks good on paper is in reality going against its cause and shaming jews around the world

I have failed to understand the first half of your post since it sounds more like a rant and lacks any coherent structure. As for the second half, I get the impression you were trying to say something about propaganda but you didn?t make yourself clear there however, let me tell you that I am not trying to win Israeli hearts since I am the one who has been sinned against by the Israelis. Furthemore, since they are the perpetrators in this conflict then its only fair to suggest that they are the ones who should be falling backwards to alley my fears and win my heart not the other way round. I think it?s obvious to anyone who cares to engage their brain that the current Israeli policy of burying their head in the sand thinking that time is on their side is not going to deliver any results. The only sensible course of action available to them is to recognize their sins and therefore change course.

When will you lot get it into your heads: Nobody with any influence cares anymore! Mr. Average has more pressing things to worry about than the usual pal rhetoric: bank interest rates, household bills, what kind of car to buy, what clothes to wear, etc. etc. Indeed, I consider myself middle class, middle income, centre-ground politics, & those in the know may have noticed I haven't bothered posting to Haaretz for many weeks. Now, what shall I put on the BBQ this evening.....

Howdy Abu; A "warning" underlined in red "many times" issued by the political head of Hamas predicting a third intifada to be carried out by the very people who are under the authority of Hamas unless direct foreign aid from the West is restored to the PA is a threat. It is also extortion and blackmail. If Meshal wants the money, then the PA will have to agree to the Quartet's conditions for its restoration. Threats of more violence will not loosen the West's purse strings; it will only make them tighter. Personally, I think that the threat of another intifada is hollow and futile because the Palestinian militant/terrorist groups are having a hard time infiltrating into Israel because of the security barriers. Riots in Gaza City, Ramallah, Jenin, etc. aren't going to do much except hurt the Palestinians, but will have negligible effect on the Israelis.

maybe this is not an entirely sound argument, but when in the history of the world have issues of land and sovereignty not been controlled by governments and money and war? What do the Pals, then, need all this economic aide for? Perhaps they don't adhere to your "doctrine" and do have the need, like the rest of the world, for legitimate government and funds to support their cause. Unfortunately, the situation today reflects their desire for bloodshed and not the improvement of their own station in life.

British travellers in the 19th century,prior to the Zionist arrival,speak of fields of waving green.The Palestinian family farmers were there cultivating the land and they held the land by customary right.The legal right had been obtained by absentee landlords by dubious means from the Ottoman Turks.The Zionists cast their eyes on this land and "bought" it from the absentee landlords .The Palestinian farmers evicted or became farmhands for the new masters. All this is well explained in John Quigley's The Case for Palestine.Quigley is an international lawyer who teaches in an American university.Most of us have read this book and others.Full of primary source citations. Poor Mark Twain.Indeed the innocent abroad !

You yourself were callng for a third intifada only a few weeks ago. Sounds as if Hamas heard your call.

renew the aid to PALS, since HAMAS was a choioce of the majority. Any violence should be retaliated.

you say, quote: All the communities but especially the Hindus and Muslims stood shoulder to shoulder in the freedom struggle against colonial rule. Unquote Wow very impressed, that's may be the reason why millions of muslims had to flee India fearing for their live.

Really another intifada? I never knew the last one stopped.

we used to call threats like that a polish suicide threat. Give inor Ill kill myself How stupi is this man? Well maybe he qualifies for the knesset. Stupidity and greed seem to be the only prerequistes for political life in the middle east.

I recall in 1947 Arab representatives to the UN swearing that they would not recognize the Zionist entity. It seems that even the word Israel is anathema to Arabs 60 years later. What a pity, since without recognition of Israel, there will never be peace. Of course, that really is what Hamas (and Abbas) desire, since it enables them to kill Jews under the claims of seeking "Palestinian" statehood. Does anyone recall whe were called Palestinians lduring World War 2? (Hint: it wasn't Arabs, who fought on Hitler's side)

With 250 rockets being fired into Israel, there never was a case fire to broken, or to take any revenges off. It's just some psycopathic nonsenses coming out from that person!

this is incredible...start giving us money or we will start blowing ourselves up again along with innocent civilians. I don't know whats more amazing, the demand itself, or the notion that they haven't been trying to commit suicide attacks all along.

What about Pal in-fighting? how many dead this past month? This past year? " The Palestinian Al-Mezan Center for Human Rights reported Tuesday that during the first three months of this year, 1,065 people were killed and injured in clashes. It cited armed clashes between the biggest Palestinian factions Fatah and Hamas; violent family feuds; attacks on universities, mosques, churches, Internet cafes and houses; premeditated and extra-judicial killings; hostage-taking and "cruel and inhuman treatment inflicted on persons during their abduction." The report suspected armed groups killed women on "honor grounds" and the authorities allowed those attacks to go uninvestigated. The toll of 147 deaths and 918 injuries "is over triple the sum of victims during the first quarter of 2004; a benchmark for serious escalation in the state of insecurity. It also doubles the number of victims in the first quarter of 2006," Al-Mezan said."

Can Meshal's threats really be taken seriously? The recent abduction of Alan Johstone has effectively switched off the West's media interest in Gaza. Short of a full scale pan-Arab war aginst Israel, which nobody is interested in, this call to intefada is a bit of a pathetic joke. A message to the pals: apart from a few die-hard lefty Talkback commentators (particularly those from Sussex), nobody else is interested or listening; even the ISM have gone AWOL in recent times. Probably got scared off like all those journalists! even a hint of 'uprising' will result in more misery for the pals; I reckon fuel supplies would be shut off first.....

You can fool some of the people some of the time, but not all people all the time. Meshaal Agenda, is Bashar Agenda, Bashar's is Irans agenda. And this is clear even to Saudia, otherwise they would have pressed the Europeans or even pay for it themselves. Mashal's plans or Mashal-Nasrallah AXIS are clear to the smallest child in Israel, and of course to the smallest child in the Arab world, hence Al Jazira reports. What Mashaal doesn't see is that no leader present or future will allow him to build an army (Arafat-Mashaal dream) that will challenge Israel existance. Propaganda is one thing that Arabs don't know how to handle, because they end up believing it them selves. You want to win Israel hearts its very simple make a real and genuine peace, don't prepare for war.Israelis are as bad with peace, as Arabs are with wars. you get my drift.

The Jewish people thank you for your kind words about liking Jews and about Jews being the nicest people on the earth. I thought I would share my love for basketball with you, since it has as much of a point as your praise for jews and denouncement of Zionism. If you cared for jews so much, i would kindly suggest that you read a little about what Zionism actually is. ignore the media distortion. it is NOT a declaration of supremacy, nor is it a quest to colonize an area. its based on thousands of years of persecution and murder that took place in the diaspora, which resulted in the agreement that the only place jews would feel safe to be jews is in their homeland of israel. the "media" would lead one to believe that zionism is equal to murder and Nazism. not sure where they get that equation from but, hey, the media's been wrong many times before.

To correct a miscperception Israel isn't falling into Chaos it is emerging from Chaos. The pronise from the G-d of Abraham and Isaac and yakov is unfolding.

I find your comments thought provoking. 1) The intafada never ended so how could a new one begin?! 2) How can Hamas break a truce with rocket fire when its been firing rockets during the truce? 3) How could you say that the Palestinians aren't interested in more violence when you voted in hamas,. A group of people who have explicitly stated they will destroy the state of Israel and replace it with an arab state. Yet another contradiction. Finally, the strategy that Saladin used on the Christians and the tactics used to defeat the jews of Medina will not work. There are non Muslims who have learnt from history as well.

The first Intifada which was civil uprising and not armed was undermined by Arafat who used to save his neck after siding with Saddam and was rewarded by Oslo. The Second Itifada which was ill planned and poorly managed by both Hamas and Fatah proved nothing but a total failure and suicide bombing did not add to the liberations. Let us hope that the next Inftifada will be civil, not violent, not armed and will be managed by those who are committed to non-violent means to end the occupation. It is time to either end the occupation or sue for full citizenship within Israel.

Give and take? What do you mean that we must Give? Haven't we already given most of our land, thousands of our lives, our own freedom! And you are still asking the Palestinians to Give? No! The only cooperation that is possible between Palestinians and the Israelis is GIVING back all land of 1967, then when we are given part of what is rightfully ours, then we can negotiate on peace and RIGHTS OF EXISTENCE! It is crazy to request a right to live, when you are not even allowing me to live on my own land. You take 5/6 of my home, and you keep on attacking me, yet you still want me to recognize that you have a right to have 5/6 of my home when you are not even allowing me to live in peace in 1/6 of my home! Justice is the only way.

end? Perhaps Ha'Aretz web site has been publishing re-runs of the war with the Palestinians during the past six years? Or maybe HAMAS is getting eco conscious and recycling their Qassams and saying that if the rockets were already launched, then they shouldn't count as a new attack. Or, maybe, HAMAS considers the idea that since they were fighting Fatah during the past six months, that it considered itself at peace with Israel....but how then to explain the ongoing missile fire? and lack of returning Israeli hostages. Must be a Monday morning without the coffee, because I'm still seeing a current war in action.

is so important.You confirm what I already guessed was the case.I found that most of us who have followed the Palestinian struggle thro'the activities of the PLO have not been equally adept at understanding Hamas.I found that Cambridge scholar Dr.Khaled Hroub's book Hamas, a Beginners' Guide is an important contribution. Apart from that, just closely following the events of 2006 it is clear that Hamas has both a pragmatic and an idealistic component to its policies. As you may know, India was one of the 13 non European countries that voted against Resolution 181 that partitioned historic Palestine.We see this primarily as a liberation struggle.An Indian recently posted from India saying:" We stand with our Palestinian brothers and sisters whether we are Hindu,Muslim,Sikh,Jain,Christian,Buddhist or Parsee." All the communities but especially the Hindus and Muslims stood shoulder to shoulder in the freedom struggle against colonial rule.

The rest of the land will be subject to Arab rule, under Palestinian sovereignty, where Muslims, Christians, and Jews will coexist in peace. All native Palestinians in the diaspora will return, should they choose. http://www.prc.org.uk

I am not going to argue with your numbers. My question is how many of the palestinians killed were at the hands of fellow Palestinians ? If none and all were by the IDF then maybe the leadership should look for some compromise to stop the killing. The key word here is compromise. It is a daily manoeuver of life.

The only solution for the current crisis is to dissolve the Palestinian authority. Abbas and Haniya must meet and take this dicision as soon as possible. Then the responsiblity will be on Israel's shoulder, Israel will be begging for someone to take charge of Gaza and West Bank.

who held the land as a customary right and cultivated it,even though the legal rights were with absentee landlords who obtained it through dubious means from the Ottoman Turks.These farmers then became farm hands for the Zionists rather than their traditional occupation of farming. Sure the Zionist "bought " the land.But unless you adhere to the doctrine that money can buy anything and everything and that it is indeed a good thing that it is so,you have to disagree with what happened with the 'purchase.' The Palestinians are the owners of the Land and the Zionists have no business being there.

Can you believe this??? Yawn ....

It could only help the Palestinian cause if they were able to find even a few senior politicians and advisors who had just a lick of common sense and awareness. So, instead of figuring out a way to appear ready to negotiate and be taken seriously, Hamas has started re-issuing threats to Israel and the 'zionist entity.' The 'zionist entity;' it is like listening to a self impressed middle school student. This diatribe should certainly help convince folks that Hamas is ready to deal with a world stage.

I think the jewish people are among the nicest people on earth. what gets me upset is how Israel and the zionist don't make the distiction between being a jew and being a zionist. Its the same thing as the extreme islamist kinning in the name of Allah and the extreme view of born again Christians. Stop giving the jewish people a bad name and show that there is a differnce between being a zionist israeli and being jew.

Israel learned valuable lessons from the past 20 years of violence. Build a wall around the Palestinian areas. Replace Palestinian workers with foreign workers. If the Palestinians wants their own country, then there's no need for them to come into Israel to work, right? Therefore, a third Intifada will go unnoticed. Where are they going to riot? Nablus? Ramallah? Just like a lunatic that sits on a streetcorner and screams all day; eventually, people become habituated to the constant noise and carry on with their lives.

"...He should be ashamed of writing such offensive nonsense..." Of course not as ashamed as you and your PM who invaded and killed Iraqis without legitimate reasons (lies of course) in three years that 1000x more than HAMAS could possibly (and legitimately) do in 25 years of its existence against its oppressors.

it will be a great day when the Pals will get wise leaders. Not like Mashal or Haniyeh. Sorry for them but the were elected by the people. Anyway the pres.of Iran Amadhinejad can be proud to have such nice followers. Come on Palestinian people send them away and vote wise men who are for the benefit of the people. Make peace no war. Shalom from Holland

There should be an intifada of Palestinians against their leadership for failing to accomplish anything in 59 years. All they have done is send Palestinians to their death and kept them in refugee camps for 59 years.

First Hamas would have to join the PLO. Something they've refused to do to date.

Tell me about the orange groves that the "natives" must have hidden when Mark Twain visited. "..... A desolate country whose soil is rich enough, but is given over wholly to weeds... a silent mournful expanse.... a desolation.... we never saw a human being on the whole route.... hardly a tree or shrub anywhere. Even the olive tree and the cactus, those fast friends of a worthless soil, had almost deserted the country." (The Innocents Abroad, p. 361-362)

The Jews paid for the land and the Palestinians will have to buy it back if the Jews are ready to sell.

Whatever you think you lack it is because you have always had bad leaders who led you to believe in solely the word "intifada" . Sorry, the world does not work that way. Yes intifada to make your point but then compromise to get what is needed. It is called give and take. Been around since the beginning of mankind. But your leaders only believe in take take take.

It's quite fascinating reading some of the comments here. Most people who come here use this forum to rant and rave without even reading the article or reflecting on anything but their own prejudice and extreme views. I have actually read Meshal interview in AL-Ayyam before responding to the article here. He is basically saying that unless Israel, the US, and the EU change their policy and engage in a meaningful process with the Palestinians then the region will be heading to another round of violence and a new intifada. His words are actually more of a warning than a threat. The Palestinians are not interested in more violence and blood shed but it looks like Israel and the US believe they can put the conflict on hold indefinitely which the Palestinians find intolerable. I also believe it?s in Israel?s interest to reach out and work for a lasting peace but judging by some of the comments here, I doubt it very much that Israel's is interested in anything short of total surrender.

Really now.It's time to call a spade a spade. The Israelis have committed crimes against humanity for the past 40 years in Palestine. Really now;let's see..children killed, women imprisoned, children for god's sake in jail and lands stolen every day under security phoney pretexts and the US just stands by and watches..and Israel simply is not learning its lesson..that it still cannot live in peace and it sacrifices its young men and women every "war" year for what? The Palestinian people have suffered apartheid and human desecration by the very people who endured horrors in WWII and the least one would expect is understanding from those who suffered. The US must find leadership that will have the foresight to honor the Palestinians with their rightful lands, including the absolute dismantling of most settlements while at the same time protect Israel's interests.Israeli will never see real peace without accepting the Palestinian reality.