Hamas leader: You can't get rid of us

One would think that public opinion on both sides would sooner or later tumble to the fact that both are being played for fools by groups of people who have an interest in continuing the violence as a means of canceling the influence of both and leaving the field clear for the international gangsters to continue their rapacious ways. Maybe they do. Maybe it just isn't reported. The children of both sides are paying the price of their parents foolishness. Safety means not living in fear. Children who are allowed to grow up in a climate of fear will be damaged.

I find it truly repugnant and hypocritical that I hear the words of genocide come out of the mouths of Jews! The true problem between Israelis and Palestinians is that Israel constantly demands a right to exist, while denying that right to the Palestinians. It just does not make any sense.

To be brief, reading Peltier's advocacy of genocide confirms every suspicion I have about the logic that Zionism ultimately creates. On to a 'Final Solution,' right?

The Hittites didn't think they could be wiped out either. This is a hard, long, tough battle; but we will prevail.... bi ezrat ha'shem.

Unfortunately, through questionable funding methods, Hamas provides social welfare, schooling and housing to the mass populace and that is why they are winning the hearts and minds of the Palestinian population. While currently they still call for the destruction of Israel, I think that as they grow this ideaology will become more diluted, and a younger generation hopeful for peace will gradually take-over. Otherwise, we should hurry up and build that security fence, continue to invest in advanced security technologies and let them deal with themselves - it won't be our problem anymore.

Good morning, Daniel! Here we go: (It is quite interesting what Wafaa had to say. He/She... SHE. --------- (Who created the occupation?.....) This is the way you read history, looking for your favorite authors who satisfy your justification of the occupation, and of the genocides committed by Israeli gangs before the ?Independence of Israel?, from whom did Israel get Independence? From innocent farmers farming their lands and living in peace with some minority of Jews? Ask my grandfather about hoe Jews and Arabs who lived before immigrant gangs started dreaming about their ?promised? land myth which they used to justify their crimes! Ask Shameer about his contribution to the crimes of Hitler and Himmler in the II WW! (Why did the occupation endure?....) You think that you offered something to Palestinians? Well, let me ask you this: If you are dinning in peace together with you precious family one evening, and I come with my gun, kill ur kids and rape ur wife and ask you to leave, I take ur house and ur land and everything that belongs to u, and then I come back after 50 years and say to u: would u like to buy one of ur old trees, and the price is that u shut up for ever???? What would you answer Mr. Daniel? (In 2000 the Palestinians had a very reasonable...) Can u ask Sharon why he decided to visit the mosque that day? Can u ask the Israeli extremists now why they wanna attack it? If I go and attack you wall in Jerusalem by dirt and so on (which is something I will never do), how would the feelings of ur people respond? what offers are u talking about? Pieces of dried bread? (So who rejects peace?)... Israel does. Think about Israel with definite internationally verified borders, u should agree it is a nightmare to the Israeli government! (Silence ... Aha?) ??. (He/she also said that Muslims reject..... (You obviously watch CNN only, and read ur favorite newspaper. This is ur own problem that u do not know something I know, try to educate urself as much as am educated that there so many Israelis who want peace, and am all ready to co-live with those people! Which books about Islam did u read? CNN reports???? I read HAARETZ everyday, I educate myself about the others without massive judgments, do u?, u even did not recognize that my name is a woman's name! (And on back to the origin ... ) Well, do u want me to repeat???? What historical? Why do not u accept dealing with facts?

Some people in this forum wholeheartedly support the idea of wiping out an entire population on some ethnic-religious-historical grounds. It is something we already heard of about 60 years ago ... The blindness of these people and the silence of the majority is a disgusting shame and to some extent a crime... Comments such as those calling the mass murdering of the entire Palestinian popultaion would send anyone straight before the court in any *really* democratic society ... Talk to me about remembering the injustice and wrongs you suffered, teach me a lesson about Human dignity ! Ask me to remember and commemorate your sufferings when you can't even learn for your own history ! People with a heart and a mind HAVE to wake up and have NO excuses for remaining silent ... This what History teaches us ...

Possible scenarios after Hamas wins the election: 1. The USA boycotts the PA. Europe also cancels aid to the PA. 2. Possible fighting between Hamas and Fatah due to the corrupt Fatah losing power and money. 3.Fighting resumes with Israel. Israel completes the security fence quickly and sits tight. 4. Egypt, Jordan as well as the USA become very worried due to this Taliban rule in the PA. 5.USA & EU bring UN mandate to send Egyptian & Jordanian troops to deploy in Gaza & the West Bank respectively to restore calm. 6. Security fence becomes the border between Israel and Jordan. 7.International community realizes that Palestinians are not capable of rule themselves. Peace will come to the Holy Land.

Palestinian Arabs were most definitely not in Palestine for 2000 years. The earliest evidence of Muslim existence in greater Palestine dates to about 700 AD. That's over 1500 years after the Jews were already in their ancestral homeland. The Palestinian Arabs also like to indoctrinate the myth that they are direct descendants of the Canaanites (archaeological evidence suggests they were a predominant Hebrew clan in Palestine before the 12 Jewish tribes entered from Egypt and conquered it.) They have not, however, provided one bit of evidence to support that ludicrous claim. In fact, neither UN Security Council resolutions 242 or 338 (the ones Palestinian Arabs and their supporters often quote to legitimize their claim to the land) recognize their existence or sovereignty over the so-called disputed territories. As for Hamas gloating about Israel not being able to wipe it out, I beg to differ. Israel, if it really wants to, can end this whole "Palestinian" identity nonsense in less than a day and I think the Arabs know this very well.

Barak used to say that Israel is not even useing 1% of it's force. Jews have tried many different plans in the past and there has been no partner. Today we have the Sharon plan with all its holes - Jews still will fully examine this plan. If it blows up in our faces - that's it. Israel wants stability and in seeking economic growth will destroy Hamas not in 6 days but in 6 hours. With love of Israel, Meir Weinstein

Revanchist Moslem thinking will sooner or later die. But the "sooner or later" could be a long time off. The international community will not allow Israel the obvious that Pelletier really implies. But within the context of an international conflict it will become possible. The real question is: Should Israel be thinking of doing the obvious at that point? I think it should if the Arabs persist along their current thinking for the next 50 yrs. In 50 yrs from now the oil of the ME will be gone and the political considerations that rule today's international thinking will be gone. In the interim Israel will be compelled to do as it does today--improvise without resolution.

Peltier all I want to say is you are entirely correct in your opinion... Unfortunately some people like David Vickery aren't as knowledgeable as you are and this is why us Jews suffer - we can never agree on the one viewpoint... There's no place for all this leftism because Palestinians are not people that we can speak to, therefore the only way is to destroy their "landscape"

Hello,these are some facts id like to share,muslims have a religious duty to fight occupation at all costs, simply a matter of pride and respect, you's all seen Braveheart, or The Patriot. Palestinians have lived in Palestine for over 2000 years, along with "arab palestinian Jews" then in 1948 Britain and world powers began mass colonisation of European/Russian Jews after WWII. Therefore some palestinians say that all Zionist immigrants living in colonies built over palestinian villages are "occupiers" and should be resisted.. whether armed or unarmed. Ehud baraks offer of peace was "generous" in the eyes of israel, but did not provide even the "BASIC" rights of palestinians: Jerusalem, (at least the eastern part) and the right of return of Refugees by definition a refugee is Temporarily displaced and what kind of logic prevents someone from returning to his village, farm, land etc ,, if it is still there,, but then ofcourse this would "alter the demographics of Israel" and threated the Jewish majority. Another thing, why cant israel build the seperation( aka security) barrier on its own side of the land. And why does israel have to keep building colonies on palestinian lands clearly mentioned in the Roadmap for Peace. Peace is possible, people just have to be willing to sit and talk, israel has to realistic and reasonable. and Palestinians already want peace.

Time for Israel to destroy The Hamas cancer once and for all! You really don't need a large army to do the job. Once the green light is given to the IDF, Hamas will be demolished at no time. Next, the Huzbulah in Lebanon fallowed by a sever blow to Syria. Israel has the military might, and Israel should use it! CADIMA ADON SHARON! CADIMA!!!!!!!

My point was that Hamas cannot be eliminated without eliminating the entire Palestinian population. And this is not an option. Nor is is something that anyone should want to do. Israel is not going anywhere. Hamas is not going anywhere. Palestinians and Israelis are not going anywhere. You must recognize this very simple fact and figure out how to live in peace together. End of story.

Mark, you're kind of wrong. There were already refugees by the time of the Arab invasion in '48, because the Yishuv and the Palestinians had been fighting for nearly six months since the partition plan came out. And before you say well the Arabs should have accepted partition, recognize the fact that even in the partition plan's Israel there were too many Palestinian Arabs, and that many of them would have had to leave their homes -- very few Jews, if any, would have had to leave the new Arab state.

Hey Daniel, perhaps the jews have an historic or what ever right on the land between Jordan and the see perhaps the arabs leader never accept any sort of compromise with the Zionist movement but can you blame them for this. Nobody on this planet would have give up volontery just one inch of what he see as his homeland. Yes it is the promised land of the Jew but Yes Palestine is the land of the Palestinians. What is important is what people on the ground (on both sides) believe in.

Could you stop crying for the Arabs who call themselves Palestinians, for G-d's sake! The Arabs put themselves in their current position when they tried unsuccessfully to destroy Israel and her people! There were no "refugees" until the Arabs attacked in '48 (in violation of UN resolution, so it was "illegal") and no "settlements" until after the Arabs' next loss in '67. Israel can dictate whatever it wants to the defeated enemy in its midst!

You ask why Israel doesn't give back what it 'stole' and lament the fact that Israel doesn't want to understand the 'Palestinians'. Yet if Arabs had even tried to understand Jews they would understand that we don't see this as land that we stole but rather as land that was promised to the descendants of Abraham, Issac, and Jacob by G-d Almighty and it is land that has Jewish history going back thousands of years. Even if you ultimately disagree with our perspective, a proper understanding of it would make peaceful coexistence possible. Instead the Arabs, from 1948 on (19 years before Israel took possession of Gaza and the West Bank) undertook to brutally eliminate through war and terrorism any expression of Jewish connection to any part of the land of Israel. It was Israel that was always ready to accept compromise and the Arabs who always rejected it. This is not just about the West Bank and Gaza. Arab hatred of Israel was just as great or more before 1967. The PLO was formed in 1966. Rather this is about ethnic and religious intolerance against anything Jewish in the land of Israel. If Arabs would truly seek to understand Jews and would put their guns and bombs down then Jews would do the same.

Living with Hamas is not going to be easy 0 neither for Israelis nor for many moderate and left Palestinians. But it is the fault of Israeli politicians who drove the region into extrmism, as they failed every possible accord. And now everybody will pay more. It is obvious that occupation will end for the sake of all. No normal person is tolerating it any more including Israelis. So we should make it happen fast in order not to prolong suffering of everybody and in order not to make Hamas stronger.

Ari - you are so right. Personally, I have seen people relate to the Arab-Israeli conflict more like it's a sports match, with people rooting for their team, and people not afiliated with any particular team rooting for the underdog because it's the cool or romantic thing to do (and people have told me straight up that they support the Palestinians because they are the underdog). To many people outside Israel and the PA is not real and doesn't involve real people. It's more like a violent soap opera to them. That being said - Wafaa - Ha'aretz is an Israeli newspaper and the people reading it will tend to be Israelis concerned with their own welfare or people who support Israel and want to be connected to it by reading its newspapers. You are dealing with a self-selected audience and if you want an audience that considers the Palestinians as much as the Israelis, a non-Israeli, non-Jewish and non-Arab and non-Palestinian paper that tries excruciatingly hard to be balanced is the place to go. The Christian Science Monitor is said to have a good reputation on that score. Also, Wafaa, if you want people to see the truly peaceful heart of the Palestinian people, then Palestinians need to stand up and oppose terror attacks much more aggressively. They must make it known to all the world that Palestinians do not approve of terror attacks and put pressure on the terrorists to stop. Israelis are not encouraged when after a terror attack, they see Palestinians celebrating and Palestinaian polls that show 70% support in the Palestinian street for terror attacks ("military operations"). I, for one, would have been willing to give Palestinians much more as far as land if it was clear to me that Palestinians simply wanted a space of their own and did not seem to thrill so to calls to wipe out every Jew between the Mediterranean and the Jordan River (and sometimes beyond). I personally don't understand why this Gandhi movie is being shown now and not 20 years ago when it first came out. Or, perhaps, Palestinians saw this movie 20 years ago and didn't pay it any mind?

Israel is who it elects and the policies those elected legislate and execute. Certainly Israel is not a monolith, a nation of rabid racists. There are thousands who deplore the policies of Sharon, Shamir. Eldad and Landau. There were thousands in Tel Aviv who demonstrated against the massacre in Sabra and Shatilla, there were thousands who demonstrated against the murder of Yitzhak Rabin by a religious fanatic, there were thousands protesting when another religious fanatic murdered Emil Gruenzweig back in 1983 or 84. There are many now who protest policies of the Israel government in the occupied territories. But we have Sharon. We had Barak. These are the elected leaders and regardless of those in Israel who oppose their policies of expansionism and duplicity, they are the ones elected by the Israeli population. Under Barak and unquestionably under Sharon, Israel, not individual Israelis, have said nothing to the Palestinians that does not entail an attitude which says: "you will take what we are willing to give you and you better believe this is your last opportunity" And Israel drones on about the impossibility of accepting back the refugess from 1948-49 and 1967 yet demands of the palestinians that they damn well better accept every Russian with a Jewish grandparent who wants an apartment in Ramle or Lod that no Arab could buy.

Here we go again, with Mark and St. Do the readers see what I mean when I say that people who express and would like to carry out such acts of genocide and murder are angry because they know they have no moral power, only brute force? They live to create more chaos and confusion, hatred and the triumph of power over any humane value.

Israel has created Hamas because it needs it for one basic rule which is still the best one: Divide to win. When Hamas will be so strong that it can unify the Palestinians then Israel will strenghten a new organisation perhaps one like Fatah. But Hamas is the best enemy that Israel can dream of. An Islamic fundamentalist terrorist group is the best one in a free and democratic world and again look, "We have no partner for peace. We want peace but we can't. What a tragedy." Who will pay for this very bad strategy but the people of Sderot and Rafah?

To New Born David Interesting name. Are you an evangelist? But anyway, I just wanted to point out that the idea that Israel created Hamas as a foil to Fatah is pure myth.

We all have our opinions and it is undemocratic and Islamic to attempt to silence those who disagree with you. Since you are so cozy with the intolerant fighters of Jihad, maybe you should go back there and fight with them? Or are you just all talk and nothing else? In the end Mr. Peltier's suggestion will happen as it is the only way to end and defeat the intolerant Jihadists. They refuse to live in peace with non-Moslems and fellow Moslems. The peace of the grave works much better than the false peace they offer Israel, or more correctly, the false hudna of Islam.

Get rid of Hamas? As long as there's a single Zionist colony in Palestinian territory I think that's impossible. Indeed, I think more groups like Hamas could be born. By the way, what disgusting and nazi was your comment Peltier.

Too many people have not understood what you were trying to say. Too bad. Obviously you were making a case for peace, not war.

It is quite interesting what Wafaa had to say. He/She seem to forget the answers to his/her own questions: Who created the occupation? As far as history is concerned the issue is quite clear: The agression started from the Arab side in 1967, massing Egyptian Syrian, Jordianian, etc. troops at the border, closing the navigational rights of Isareli ships in and out of Israeli ports, etc. The Israelis won this defensive war, but Mr/Mrs Wafa wants to blame them for surviving! He/she would have liked them dead! Why did the occupation endure? As far as I remenber the Labor goverments of the time offered to the Arab side all the lands thay lost in the war in return for peace .. the Arabs met in Karum and replied, "No!" In 2000 the Palestinians had a very reasonable offer of peace in their hands ... provided by a very liberal Israeli government of Ehud Barak ... and what did they choose? A terror campaingn endorsed, financed and applauded by almost every Palestinian institution. So who rejects peace? Silence ... Aha? He/she also said that Muslims reject terror ... it somehow does not sound convincing to people that remenber the Palestinians jumping with joy at the time Hussein was bombarding Israeli cities with Scuds ... or their celebrations after the 9/11 terror attack ... or their glorification of the Shahids that carried out terror atacks against Isreli civilians ... Correct me if I am wrong but I recall the posters of these criminals covering the walls of entire Palestinain towns? And on back to the origin ... it is clear that there were in 1948 two groups of people with historical rights to the same land ... a clearly complicated situation. However the point is that when that problem was proposed to be solved in an equitable manner giving both a pice of what they wanted the Jews said "Yes, let's share this land and make two states," and the Arabs said "No way ... we'll take it all and throw the Jews into the sea." Do you remeber Mr/Mrs Wafaa? Or is your memory as selective as your arguments?

It really bothers me when I go through these forums and all I hear about is Israel wants this and Israel wants that; the fact of the matter is, Israel is and always has been divided as to how to interact with the Palestinians. Everyone blames Sharon (or whoever is the current PM when it is time to complain), or the IDF, but no one actually takes into consideration the opinions and desires of the actual Israeli populace. Israelis certainly did not create Hamas, though perhaps particular foreign policies contributed to its ascension. It is time for people to stop viewing countries as single entities and recognize the complexities involved in all this. It's easy to make blanket statements about entire peoples, but in reality things are more complicated. Unfortunately, it is much easier to read (disputed) news, do no checks on authenticity or veracity, then yell at all of Israel for toying with Palestinian lives or call all Palestinians terrorists who don't want peace simply for voting for municipal leaders who are associated with terrorism. Israel is not a person, cruel, just or otherwise, nor is Palestine.

Actually, David, Mr. Peltier knows exactly why Hamas (and the PA, for that matter) exists: to destroy Israel and the Jewish people. I have a strong suspicion you share that same goal!

Israel can wipe out Hamas. Israel can carpet-bomb Gaza, and this way nobody would be there to blow up anything in Israel. Israel - be smart and kill our killers! If "so-called" innocent people die, what can you do? War is war. The U.S. did not kill innocent people in Japan or Germany?

It is quite intersting to see people giving their views about how beneficial (or not) to Israel it will be if Hamas wins the elections. I guess that Israel is all that matters here, and no one is concerned about what the Palestinians want! Is it another sign of racism in this little modern hypocratic democratic country? Anyway, the Palestinins never wanted Hamas in the first place, they had to accept whatever satisfied them emotionally at some point in the middle of their suffering, Palestinians never wanted to kill innocent people on a Sunday-morning bus, it is Israel who created this and asked the Palestinians to like it! Islam prohibits killing innocent people out of a battle frame, and you all know it but ignore it when you want. Hamas never represented Islam or what Islam asks us to do, Hamas always represented what Israel wants to have! Every time there might be a little hope for peace, a little hope for a solution, Hamas conducts a terror activity, and you see Israel immediately breath and stop the hopes! Tt is clear...very clear... If Hamas wins, Israel may be happy, for all the reasons you mentioned, all of you above. But what do you think about how the Palestinians will feel? When are you going to try to open to the real Palestinian spirit and try to get that if you give us, the Palestinians, a hope of peace, we will be more friendly than you expect..but ask yourself about who created occupation? Who created Hamas? Who does not want to have borders? Who does not want to have a final solution? Who does not want bring back what stole? There are other people in this world than Israelis...there are other people who matter, who may need to be asked...but, I would blame "us", the Palestinians for not being able to show our reality, and settling for hiding behind either stupid emotions from Hamas or stupid leadership from Fatah...ironic....

George Peltier of Baton Rouge Louisiana wants to kill the people I lived and worked with in the city of Nablus in the northern West Bank of PALESTINE. He wants to blow up my friends, my gentle pharmacist, university professors, and the wonderful kids on the street whom I adored. George is an ignorant and violent man, all too common these days in the U.S.A. He actually wrote this: "...eliminate every single Hamas leader and supportor with an intensive military campaign involving the widespread carpet bombing of Palestinian towns and massive slaughter of the population." He needs to learn more of what Hamas is all about and especially why Hamas exists.

I think it would be much better if Hamas were to win the elections. Remember that Fatah killed about twice as many Jews as Hamas during the last Intifadah. The Palestinian Authority is a much more effective killing machine than Hamas.

Yaakov, I have been following your comments on many articles and value your clear and rational thought. By the way An-Najah University (Nablus) student council also voted in Al-Fatah in their last election. I believe that was mostly in support of the newly elected Abu Mazen. I hope Hamas really does go mainstream and does something positive and concrete for the people of the occupied territories, while ceasing attacks inside Israel.

Sheikh Hassan told the naive reporter that "it's still too early to answer these questions" ,and he bought it ,just like poster david and his wishfool assumption that ' Hamas will become mainstream and will relinquish violence to some extent ' The enemy is more clever and cunning than the Jews gone soft and plump in preparation for the upcoming slaughter. Islam will never tolerate non-moslems on land once under their control,that's the answer that Sheikh Hassan will once again tell the deaf and dumb ,the blind who still don't get it. One day this deaf ,dumb and blind Israel will awaken (in pieces ) and do what it shold have done in the beginning, follow Mr.Peltier's sage advice,but then too many Jews will have died due to the appeasment and blindness of it's leaders. At one time Israel kept it's enemies at bay and earned grudging respect from them by defeating them in war. Now Israel is a joke a foolish people who prepare they way for their own slaughter, because they want to be liked by the inhabitants of the cesspool called Earth. G-d will get their attention eventually.

To Mr. Rubinstein: You leave out two critical points in your analysis. First, analysing the role Israel played in strengthening Hamas popularity among the Palestinian populace. A stronger, less compromising Hamas works well for Israel's propaganda machine: "See, US and Europeans, we have no partner". Secondly, in the recent student elections held at both Beir Zeit and Bethlehem universities Fatah took first place over Hamas. I would advise Mr. Rubinstein to pay a bit more attention to his own Israeli equivalent of Hamas. They're gearing up for some big trouble that will not work to the advantage of the Israeli propaganda machine

Israel cannot get rid of Hamas, nor can Hamas get rid of Israel. However, if Hamas wins the elections in July and defeats Abu Mazen, there is a strong possibility that their leadership will become pragmatic and recognize Israel's right to exist. This will mean that Hamas will change its tactics in order to serve its Palestinian supporters. Hamas will have to involve itself in nation building which is incompatible with violence. Sheik Hassan Yousef gives some hint of that according to the article.

Peltier! Interesting name, by the way, are you French? Anyway, Hamas will probably take over the PA in a few years, and Israel will have to learn to live with that. Don't forget that Israel bred Hamas as an opposition to the PLO - tables have been turning in our Mideast bog. Judging by history, Hamas will become mainstream and will relinquish violence to some extent - Israel could help it 'grow up' or just provide it with new fuel.

Yes Israel could initiate a campaign of carpet bombing and kill thousands of Palestinians, but then of course thousands of Palestinians could blow themselves up and kill thousands of Israelis likewise. The US could also drop nuclear bombs on Iraq and Iran or in Vietnam 30 years ago. It is not about being able or not being able to, we all know who has the advantage in pure force it is about measuring the consequences.

Sheikh Hassan Yousef's bottom line, according to Rubinstein, is "You can't get rid of us." This, however, is simply not true. If Israel wanted to, it could eliminate every single Hamas leader and supportor with an intensive military campaign involving the widespread carpet bombing of Palestinian towns and massive slaughter of the population. By eliminating all the Palestininans, one could, in fact, get rid of Hamas. However, whether you consider Hamas a terror organizaton or a band of freedom fighters, Israel must understand it is an integral part of the Palestinian landscape that cannot be erased without erasing the landscape itself. So I ask: Who needs landscape?