Haaretz probe: Israel dismantling roadblocks, but Palestinians still can't move

So you are saying the Pals (Oh Sorry, let us call "the natives") have no right to be born there and existing for hundreds of years? Then who are these people you are occupying? Aliens from outer space?

"my point is the Pals are educated for war against Israel" What about the settler youth and children who throw stones at the Palestinians, destroy their property and uproot their olive trees? They are being educated exactly as the Palestinians are. As to that, I don't think any Palestinian would need that much "education" to hate Israel...when you see your people humiliated daily and killed and your land taken away you need no "education" to hate the people who are doing this to you. To do otherwise would be against human nature and I expect we'd feel exactly the same if we were Palestinian. BTW, the "suicide bombings" seem to be a thing of the past for Israel, hence, forget about the "72 virgins" blather....

"Canada is a tolerant, open and diverse population, happily at peace." How correct you are Jasper! Look at post no. 14 right under yours (Jochai Rubinstein of Jerusalem) for an indication of whether Israel is a "tolerant, open and diverse" country. Fish, how long do you propose keeping the Arabs in jail for their bad behavior in 1948? Its now been nearly a half century of occupation. The U.S. occupation of Germany after WW2 lasted seven years.

"No one likes roadblocks,or seperation fence,or restrictions on movements,but we even like less suicide bombers,or car bombs!!!" THEN STAY IN ISRAEL OR SET UP THE ROADBLOCKS IN ISRAEL!!!

It is a well known fact. Who passed out candy on 9/11? Was it the Jewish people or the Palestinians? Should we leave that out too? With regards to the W. Bank recently Abbas speaking for Fatah said No negotiations, wants to increase the use of "resistance" (euphemism for terrorism) and has said NO to recognizing Israel mimicking the Hamas position. True peace comes from the peoples heart and my point is the Pals are educated for war against Israel with a bias presentation of the "occupation". How the Pals came to be occupied is ignored or misrepresented out of context. The people need to be prepared for peace and the Palestinians have done the opposite with their people.

"There are no differences between Jordanians, Palestinians, Syrians and Lebanese. We are all part of one nation. It is only for political reasons that we carefully underline our Palestinian identity... yes, the existence of a separate Palestinian identity serves only tactical purposes. The founding of a Palestinian state is a new tool in the continuing battle against Israel". - Zuhair Muhsin, military commander of the PLO and member of the PLO Executive Council - "There is no such thing as Palestine in history, absolutely not". - Professor Philip Hitti, Arab historian, 1946 - "Walid Shoebat, a former PLO terrorist that acknowledged the lie he was fighting for and the truth he was fighting against: ?Why is it that on June 4th 1967 I was a Jordanian and overnight I became a Palestinian?? ?We did not particularly mind Jordanian rule. The teaching of the destruction of Israel was a definite part of the curriculum, but we considered ourselves Jordanian until the Jews returned to Jerusalem. Then all of the sudden we were Palestinians - they removed the star from the Jordanian flag and all at once we had a Palestinian flag?. ?When I finally realized the lies and myths I was taught, it is my duty as a righteous person to speak out?.

...to Mark from Georgia, please leave out the "72 virgins", we're all sick of hearing about that... Focus your mind instead on the land and resources stolen daily from the Palestinians on the West Bank as Israel claims more and more of the land that could have become a Palestinian State...I mean "steals" rather than "claims"....

Quote : "The last 5 generations of Pals are taught from birth that 1) Israel has no right to exist(not on maps in schoolbooks). 2) They are taught to commit suicide and kill Jews(and they go to heaven 72 virgins, families payed $25K per child to commits suicide) 3)Arafat walked away from the Clinton deal giving the Pals 95% of what they wanted and started the 2nd intifada" 1- Wrong 2- Who are "they" ? 72 what ? 3- read a bit of history before talking. That's what i said you need to learn more about Palestine and the palestinians. Then we'll talk.

When you speak about palestinian education you simply avoid the facts of occupation and the history of the palestinian people. Then you might understand.

I do know if the Pals stop the violence there would be peace. Most of all I think that is what most people want. just to live in peace. But tell me Sam as a Palestinian, what am I missing? I do always keep an open mind. Why are you so upset about my remarks?

You ask---do they have any land---answer is yes. The Highest Court in Israel says so--they have declared the West Bank as being held "under Belligerent Occupation " by Israel. It therefore follows that Israel cannot own that territory. As to owing land----are you not aware that in a normal democracy, it is not necessary to own land to gain citizenship. But I see you live in Israel so that explains your confusion. "Why does Jordan in 1970 had killed 10-25 thousand Palies in Jordan."Aby You made this claim just two days ago but your number was 11,000. I challenged you on your source which I now do again as well as asking why the number is now 10k to 25k. What Jordan or Egypt or anyother State did to the Palestinians does mnot give licence to Israel to do worse. It is people like you who are responsible for Israel being the most hated Regime on this planet and getting Jews a bad name. You are full of hot air and sorry excuses.

You ask---do they have any land---answer is yes. The Highest Court in Israel says so--they have declared the West Bank as being held "under Belligerent Occupation " by Israel. It therefore follows that Israel cannot own that territory. As to owing land----are you not aware that in a normal democracy, it is not necessary to own land to gain citizenship. But I see you live in Israel so that explains your confusion. "Why does Jordan in 1970 had killed 10-25 thousand Palies in Jordan."Aby You made this claim just two days ago but your number was 11,000. I challenged you on your source which I now do again as well as asking why the number is now 10k to 25k. What Jordan or Egypt or anyother State did to the Palestinians does mnot give licence to Israel to do worse. It is people like you who are responsible for Israel being the most hated Regime on this planet and getting Jews a bad name. You are full of hot air and sorry excuses.

QUOTE The IDF admitted that its troops sometimes conduct extensive searches at the unmanned roadblocks, but said such checks were warranted by specific intelligence information SPECIFIC intelligence information? Fair enough. How many arrests?

Many palestinians activists supporting peace have been arrested and/or deported by Israel since decades ! Maintaining occupation, discrediting peace movements and creating hostility. That's what's going on !

The excuse for those unmanned piles of dirt and "random" barriers that dot the roads and paths of our region is psychology and techniques of managing populations. Google Paul Virilio if you're interested.

Your description of palestinians is pathetic and insulting. No wonder ! what do you know about palestinians ? Not much i'm afraid.

Like many others you seems to be forgeting the source of this conflict as if your memory was selective. Unless you do that on purpose ? That's called denial and denial is a crime.

No one likes roadblocks,or seperation fence,or restrictions on movements,but we even like less suicide bombers,or car bombs!!!

The son of one of Palestine?s most prominent peace activists was arrested in the early hours of Saturday morning. Khalid Abu Awwad is the Manager of the Parent?s Circle, a pioneering NGO that reconciles bereaved families from both sides of the conflict. His son Mohanned, 20, has emulated his example and become a well known activist too, working to promote non-violence and democracy within the West Bank. Described as a community leader his arrest has sparked outrage in both Israeli and international circles leading to accusations that the security forces are deliberately seeking to thwart Palestine?s peace movement.

For most WB Arabs,the end of Jordanian occupation had led to a marked improvement in the quality of their lives.With the Israelis had come acces to a vibrant economy,running water,and education.Infant mortality rates,once among the highest in the world,plummeted. Literacy rates,among the world's lowest, increased dramatically.Never in all that time prior to 1967,was there any talks of occupation, and no one cared about the Palestinian's quality of life.I wonder why?

We've allowed your 'Pals' to murder our own troops in Ft Hood, for one. The Pals are treated as they treat others. we could call them rabid dogs but, we don't. 'Muslim' will do nicely. Perhaps the Muslims will be kept in camps eternally to avoid more assassinations and unnecessary bloodshed? I'll vote for that.

It makes my day.http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/images/objects/send.gif Expect more of the same, and for this we cheer ISrael. Wish ALL democracies would keep these mad bombers in Gaza where they belong and keep them there forever.

Do they have any land? It was already occupied by Jordan till 1967. We all know how we come today. It seems you don't remember. Jordan, Egypt, Syria all declared war in 1967 against Israel. They have loosed it. Solely Egypt does not want to get Gaza back when we give Sinai. Why? Why does Jordan does not want to get back WB, when we make peace with them. Why does Jordan in 1970 had killed 10-25 thousand Palies in Jordan. Who did steal their land we or their brothers Egypt and Jordan. Before 2000 there was no roadblocks between Israel and Westbank. Do you know why there is now? Boris educate yourself then comment here. If they would be the winner, believe me there would be no Jew left in todays Israel. If you want any prove just look at the Arab countries. Aby

Any Israeli would be outraged if they were held up on their way to work by random, spur of the moment traffic jams caused by impromptu roadblocks. Yet wasting Palestinians' time and harassing them in their own territory is totally acceptable. True, movement through the checkpoints located at legitimate border creossings has become quicker and more efficient, but as long as roadblocks within Palestinian territory exist, they will hamper Palestinians' daily lives. These roadblocks have absolutely nothing to do with Israel's security, since they are not there to check Palestinians entering Israel. So security is no excuse for them. What is? I really don't know.

I am not supporting the settlements blindly, but every time roadblocks are removed restrictions are eased, somebody dies. Which is why its taking so long to relax the tension. I agree there need to be two states for two people, but right now one of those states can not function without the other. Patients its going the right way though

lol thats funny, i recall a story about how some settlers killed some pals. so what did isrl do? well the banned the pals from their own land for their protection, and guess what the settlers moved onto it, claiming the pals left it for 6 months so it became state land. thats some protection wouldn't you say?

"Israel is doing their best for them and also the protection of their civilians" Now this I'd like to see...

You can attempt some wry distortion to make a point, but it falls flat. Canada is a tolerant, open and diverse population, happily at peace. Nobody is in danger of the treatment you describe, unless they become violent. And of course that is the reason your little construct falls flat. Unlike Canada and the majority of Earth, Israel is surrounded by openly hostile and intolerant populations that do not appear ready to do anything except cause Israel problems for the foreseeable future. Which is the reason for the security measures. It's nothing personal.

There are no roadblocks for Pals, that are wise enough to leave to better places like Venezuela or Canada.

Your analogy has some faults. Let me point out that 20% of Israelis are Arabs/Palestinians, who share the same freedoms as Jewish Israelis. And it was all the Arab countries who declared war on Israel in 1948 and encouraged the Palestinians to leave to escape the fighting whiling promising them safe return after annihilating the Jews. Guess who won that war, not the Arabs! Now those Arab countries don't even have the decency to grant those refugees the same rights as their own citizens, no public schools, no right to own land, and no statesmanship, that's suppose to be their Arab "brothers". So you have generations of families all retaining a refugee status. And those fences and check points do protect Israeli civilians. It was not too long ago that Palestinians were blowing themselves up in restaurants, buses and shopping centers. You don't hear about that hardly ever anymore. Ever wonder why? Get your facts straight before you start making your silly analogies.

US pressure may have initiated a reduction in the number roadblocks, but the need for this measure has not changed. See yesterday's Ha'aretz headline: rifels found in Arab car at roadblock next to Jerusalem. Any questions about the need fot it? By the way, "roadblocks with only sporadic supervision on an operational basis" is nothing new at all, which exists for many years. Presenting it as a measure replacing the permanent roadblocks is somewhat misleading.

OV: "At times, they requested at least 3 months " violence free" Yet the Pals have never delivered even that! OV: "It was the Intifada, then it was Arafat, then it was Hamas." Israel is now and has always been on the record wanting peace. By contrast both the PLO and Hamas want to destroy Israel. Peace cannot come from a document, you need the will of the people. The last 5 generations of Pals are taught from birth that 1) Israel has no right to exist(not on maps in schoolbooks). 2) They are taught to commit suicide and kill Jews(and they go to heaven 72 virgins, families payed $25K per child to commits suicide) 3)Arafat walked away from the Clinton deal giving the Pals 95% of what they wanted and started the 2nd intifada. All the Pals have to do is stop the violence and there would be peace. They choose not to, put the blame on the Pals and their "culture of death" mentality.

Boris, remind us please when Judea and Samaria was Palestinian ? If they are occupied they were a State. Who was their first President and which currency did they have ? And while you are at it, tell us when the Nations League resolutions that where taken in their integrity by the UN have been cancelled and by whom ? Just as a remainder there is one resolution stating that the land from Jordan River to the Mediterranean is meant for priority settlement of the Jews........You say illegal settlements ? You probably mean the Arab ones.

From Israels point of view, a mobile Palestinian is a dangerous Palestinian. Who knows what mischief they will get up to if they can move about freely. Israel has a lot of experience in providing news releases about lifting restrictions when they are actually making even harsher restrictions. This "PR" work used to serve Israel quite well, but not so much anymore. People have learned to treat all such "liberal" verbiage out of Israel as a complete sham. This will give them about 95% accuracy, which is pretty good.

Canada will shortly declare itself a "Christian state, homeland for the Christians." You (because you are Jewish), will be deported to a refugee camp in the Northwest Territories (yur gonna love it there, wide open spaces, etc.). Within the territory, Canadian (Christian) settlers may come and go as they please, and may settle on whatever land they deem desirable. You and your family (because you are Jewish) may not leave the territory without Christian permission and may not travel within the territory without being subject to strip searches. No hard feelings. P.S. Why are you a yordim?

about the safety of the Palestinian civilians, then I would agree with you. The Israeli attitude is protect the Israelis and fk the Palestinians. Still waiting for Israel to dismantle the illegal outposts. Is this ever going to happen, or is this more of the same?

crazy Palestinians! why do you think Israel builds roadblocks? it's to keep you safe from settlers! not to humiliate you! because the state of Israel cares. p.s: sarcasm in place.

For the past 20+ years, Israel always had an excuse. It was the Intifada, then it was Arafat, then it was Hamas. At times, they requested at least 3 months " violence free". Years have gone by and the only thing the Pals got was more loss of land. It seems that there is always someone to blame - but Israel. This is not going to work in favor of Israel - on the long run. Everyday that passes by, it becomes harder to establish a Pal state. The modern society eventually will force Israel to a fair and just peace or enforce a one state solution.

How can Israel and Palestine are both stating different opposite "truths" and both been right? By all probabilities, as always had been the case and insulting the intelligence of normal people, Israel and specially the IDF are not telling the truth.

In the good old days,that is BTI (before the internet), Israel could get away with this knid of stuff. Make a "concession" and then implement even more hardships on Palestinians without anyone the wiser. Those days are gone. We will soon hear figures for how many roadblocks Israel dismantled and how many new ones they established.

is illustrated by #1Roadblocks. "They seem to want everything their way" ...on their own land that is. Occupy, steal land and water, block movement and than say its for the victims own best interest. It's a moral superiority thats based on the comfort that stems from automatic rifles, high tech arms and the ultimate weapon. "No hard feelings"

The palestinians keeps crying and not satisfied. They seem to want everything their way. Israel is doing their best for them and also the protection of their civilians. That is the way it is and that is the way it is going to be until real peace & tight security is in place. The palestinians have to put up with it. No hard feelings.