Gov't to support bill on revoking citizenship for disloyalty to state

This board is probably defunct already but I'll post anyways. You are right in so far as the law goes. The reality is that dual citizenship is a common status in the US if the other country does not revoke its citizenship. The US does not automatically rewmove citizenship status if a citizen acquires a second one, although this is on the books, certainly not for most countries, including Israel. I know many Americans who acquired an Israeli citizenship and vice versa. In the first case, nothing changed - the dual citizen used american passpoprt to enter the US and may use an Israeli one elsewhere. Same for Israel, I believe. You can check on thisd yourself. That is why I commented on the dual allegiance problem. Because it is.

I don't see why Israel needs another law, when there is a law on the books already. The position in the USA is that if an American citizen applies for citizenship of another country -- or swears allegiance to another country -- he or she automatically loses his or her American citizenship.

I love it when you right wingers bring up the Indians when it has nothing at all to do with the topic at hand. Are you saying that because a great wrong was done once to the Indians (one for which America is continuing to pay penance, by the way) that you can do even greater wrong? is that the logic? why stop at the Indians? the vikings who were my ancestors commited a few crimes against humanity too. And, oops, I almost forgot - so did the Jews - didn't they slaughter all the Canaanites in the land first? So lets agree on something - the ethnic cleansing of the Indians should be compared to that of the original inhabitants of israel (if we believe the bible, that is). Both bad. Very bad. From there, can we get back to the point - whiich is the denial of citizenship to those who dare to talk with the ones the state desgnates as enemies (rightly or wrongly)?

"Then, AGAIN AXEL, what would you call the British hanging jews BEFORE THE JEWS HANG A FEW HANGERS...Justice?" What would you call it what these who were hanged were tried for? Guess YOU call it justified resistance against British occupation ... The British sentences spoke of bombings and murder. Conclusion: You call Jews who committed murder and the slaying of hostages freedom fighters, and agree that they are heroes of Israel. When Palestinians do the same, you call it terrorism. Your judgement is not determined by the action, but on which side of the opposing parties it is committed. And worst of all: you turn a blind eye on your own double standards and call others biased instead.

theives of Indian land, butchers of Indiand tribes!

loyal citizens, stay in Canada and enjoy the 21st century, we Jews prefer the Jewish Law

How right you were - seeing from the response of #43 - already justifying anything the Irgun did by the magnitude of British "provocation". This argument goes as "it's nothing compared to what the [fill-in-the-blank] did". By Jfrom's logic - any action taken by Palestinians is fully justified, given the enormity of Israel's suppressive actions and continued execution of people with no charges, judge or jury (am refering to the murder by assasination - the damage be damned). But, as you say - those who justify the past will continue to justify the present and the future. Revocation of citizenship for [fill in the blank] is just the latest salvo on the slippery slope of an apartheid state fast becoming a true banana republic, ruled by a junta, supported by a history-spouting self-righteous mob. Kind of far from the original vision of the founders?

Will Jimmy Carters updated book tell how he allowed American hostages to be taken. Will he tell how he did nothing about it, Will it tell how he made us look weak and stupid. Will it tell if the Islamic nuts asked for Texas he would have given it away.Will he tell how he invited the Islamic nuts to take over Iran. Give the guy credit he biulds a good house

Go tell it to the English, FRench. Spainish. Germans and more that they are not patriotic and should get out. Maybe you should tell it to the Muslims fund raising here to by ammuntion instead of food and medicine.

Traveling To An Enemy State-- Come on! NOT ALL PEOPLE in any one state are "the enemy". You May Have-- Family, friends & business associates in "enemy countries"...who have NOTHING to do with their government's position(s). Further-- The people in these "enemy countries"...may not be able to always afford...to travel outside of their countries...AND...may not be allowed to come to your country (especially in Israel's case). What then? Disloyalty Should Be Measured By REAL/ACTUAL HARM-- Disloyalty should be measured based on someone COMMITTING acts of REAL/ACTUAL harm to the State...such as collaboration with the enemy to ACTUALLY do harm to the State. Remember this! Anything Short Of This-- Provides officials with an ill-gotten tool(s) tantamount to "police state" control. Regarding Citizenship-- I understand this. BUT: Be prepared to engage in RATIONAL exceptions...especially when children, spouses and family members are involved.

Then, AGAIN AXEL, what would you call the British hanging jews BEFORE THE JEWS HANG A FEW HANGERS...Justice? You are one mixed up person for sure... I think there was a war there then and that means killings all around, so why center on the Irgun only? OH yessssssss, I know, they were jews who dared to fight back. As I see this in you, that should be accorded to arabs only now, right?Why not mention the mufti of Jerusalem a few times too, who was VERY FRINEDLY WITH HITLER? Does not suit your purpose?...lol...I think your axle is broke and you are stuck in mud...

this is soooooooo wrong. "revoking citizenship." when will they stop this outrageous system?

"I especially liked the poster who wanted to hang people." In the late forties the Irgun kidnapped two British sergeants and hanged them in retaliation for the execution of some of their accomplices. So you see, this poster is just 'hanging' on to tradition ... Oh, and don't be confused - this was heroic battle for independence and against occupation, terrorism? NEVER!

"Citizenship is a fundamental right in democracy that cannot be revoked (unless acquired by fraudulent immigration)." Quite correct. So there we have another proof that the "only democracy in the Middle East" is very unique among democracies.

There goes "the only democracy in the Middle East" embracing the Bahrain example. Optimistically you can say: Israel is adapting to Middle East standards, or perhaps: the new convergence plan.

Revoking citizenship was the ultimate remedy of communist states in the past to rid themselves of dissidents who were too prominent to put in jail. No civilized state has such a bill.

... that one day there were a coalition government comprising Shas and the United Torah Party and a judiciary made up with their appointees. What could/would they do with such a vague law on the statute books? Far fetched? Possibly. But do you want to risk it? And, how would such a law apply to, say, members of the shministim or Peace Now who are Israelis with dual nationality? As it stands, this proposal sounds too much like a preparation to stifle dissent and facilitate a totalitarian regime.

I'm personally very fond of the current motto of the US. "Don't tread on me".

Of course, by his interpretation, in the US he is a fifth column himself with a loyalty clearly tilted towards Israel rather than the US. Israel should be careful here. There is a very large contingency of expatriate israelis living in the US with dual citizenships (dual by default, since Israel does not take hers away when you become a citizen of another country). The majority of those I know are knee-jerk supporters of Israeli interests, even when it is counter to US interests. I know that many don't see it that way. Rather, like most Jews they are very good at twisting logic of events just enough to where there is no more conflict because US interests have been reinterpreted to be identical to Israel's and presto! all is well - no dual loyalties. The best example of what I say above were the expatriates attitudes towards the lebanon demolition derby. Most (not all) found many reasons why this was a good thing. Forget that it played straight into Iran and Syria's hands.

Sounds like a fine idea for an occupation regime faced with condemnation the world over for persecuting another people and stealing their land. It's called a "Circling the Wagons" mentality, by the way. I especially liked the poster who wanted to hang people. looks like finally Israel is succeeding in becoming Arabised. It will soon be a true part of the middle east. I wonder how much the attitudes expressed by these posters are indicative of Israeli attitudes as a whole (read them all to get the gist). Anyone knows?

David, reading your posting ("What a great way to get rid of Peres and Beilin") and that of #25-Noura ("First they came for the communists..."), you are in fact one step ahead of the next bigger crime.

The Israeli interpretation of democracy has not much in common with real democracy. Citizenship is a fundamental right in democracy that cannot be revoked (unless acquired by fraudulent immigration). Passing an undemocratic law with a democratic majority doesn't make it democratic.

To the good Israel citizens of Israel - Now is the time to stop the Fifth Columnist residing among you, pretending to be your friends and neighbors, all the while scheming to undermine you! The Fifth Columnists will always portray this measure as some kind of unneeded and harsh law, aimed at punishing the loyal opposition. Nothing could be further from the truth! Learn from what has happened in America, defeated in Vietnam in large part by leftist Fifth Columnists! Does the name Hanoi Jane Fonda ring a bell? Live and Learn. Pass a well debated, well written law with enforceable sanctions to ensure the survival of your nation. Nothing less will do in these trying times.

This bill dramatically underlines the problems that the lack of a constitution causes - in all other democracies the right to citizenship would be guaranteed and not left to some ill-defined ad hoc procedures. The section of the Basic Laws of Israel relating to Human Dignity and Liberty specifically gives an Israeli citizen the right to leave Israel and the right of re-entry from abroad (see Wikipedia) but because these rights are not constitutionally guaranteed, it appears that the bill in question can trump the Basic Law. The fact that a person might visit an "enemy of Israel" (most of the world as far as I can make out) to learn for himself whether Israeli propaganda concerning that country is true or not and lose his citizenship is a very sick joke. Incidentally, the reason Israelis have not been able to agree on a constitution, according to Wikipedia, results from the conflict between normally accepted provisions and Jewish religious law. This is laughable in the 21st Century.

NOW YOUR TALKING. wHEN I GET TO ISRAEL IN MARCH, I WOULD LIKE TO BUY YOU A BEER.

The right to decide who is and who is not loyal? Where would the loyalty line be drawn? This is just another grey area were lots of favores, bribes, descrimination and segregation laws apply.

Tell me true, noble citizen. What are you going to do when they come for you? When the judges pronounce you a terrorist for participating in a peace demonstration and revoke your citizenship, what will you do? If you're a good boy, they may put you on probation for life and let you work in a McDonald's, or maybe Wal-Mart. ? John Kaminski

Jimmy, consider releasing an updated version of your book. Aparthaid laws are taking hold of Israel more than ever.

who knows, next time it will be for you. This law is another hole in Israel moral standards, if any.

ence between loyal opposition and traitorous behaviour and actions.

Finally Israel is both showing self-respect and demanding it for himself! G-D bless you Israel!

Talk about a race to the bottom. Do you really want your own moral standards to be dictated by a wretched state like Bahrain?

In South Africa, the Bantu Homelands Citizens Act of 1970 compelled all black people to become a citizen of the homeland that responded to their ethnic group, regardless of whether they'd ever lived there or not, and removed their South African citizenship. Israel is heading that way and the world is watching very carefully. We Europeans should never allow any such aparthied legislations passed by people who get special trade agreements with euro zones. We should deal with Israel the same way we dealt with South africa... sanctions and more sanctions.

The concept is sensible, but the bill's language - as reported in this article - is terrifying. Of course a citizen should not be trying to destroy his country, and should be stripped of his citizenship when he is exposed. But what else might be described as an act disloyal to Israel? From what I read on this site, some persons would include: supporting the U.N. or the International Criminal Court, expressing the idea that Palestinians have equal rights, or even expressing the idea that there ought to be debates about such issues. How will you be sure that the law will never be abused in such ways? Laws enacted in times of fear, seemingly reasonable - indeed, necessary - at the time, are often abused later when the government realizes what a weapon the law gives it against it opponents. That is the experience of other countries, and I fear that Israel will not be able to avoid that problem.

Does this mean that those MKs who travel to Damascus will be sent to live there permanently? What a great way to get rid of Peres and Beilin for negotiating with the PLO when it was agaist the law.

So if I visit Yemen for a business meeting or Kuala Lumpur then I lose my Israeli passport ?? Thats great ! Then I can become a tourist again and get a tax free car !!!

Another slippery slope brought to you by a country desperately in need of a constitution. This is a dangerous move. Where are the safeguards for demoractic freedom? What next, jailing pople for signing petitions against government policy or for joining a rally? Maybe all the peace and coexistence activist should stripped of their citizenship? As an American citizen I know I can safely speak out against my government when I believe it is failing, as an Israeli citizen I am no longer sure I can do the same. Where does it end, folks? Think about it -- this bill is poorly defined what happens when your opinion and/or actions become unpopular?

Way to go. The "Mini State for the Mob" whose cream is involved with everything from graft, bribery, money laundering, running sex slaves and allegations of rape, will have the right to target its Arab/Palestinian citizens. Maybe Katsav can be the judge. AIPAC and their cohorts should be imported immediately since America has been Pollardized by Kissinger and co. May it go the way of the USSR and in any case move to a new address - Canada's Manitoba and Saskatchewan with a part of Alberta thrown in. BTW, take the WMD. Canada needs some.

Israel follows the path of former South Africa aparthaid rule. Citizenship was revoked to fight the demographic threat and to get rid of anyone that underminded the aparthaid rule. However, this is not 1970. It is Israel at present and I suggest you call the new law "Arab Homeland Citizenship Act".

Should have their citizenship revoked for disloyalty! These AIPAC guys that have proven to be traitors should have their US citizenship revoked! Screw this dual loyalty.....one cannot serve two masters. US first or go to hell should be our model! :)

Seems like a fine idea. Unfortunately, left up to our AG and as he has said and demonstrated, it will probably never happen. This was nothing more than a placating motion. Most of our court descisions are politically motivated. Bad for justice, good for political friends. Frankly, yet another waste of time.

Will Ha'Aretz still persist in employing the likes of gideon & amira????

About time too! This makes a lot of sense

The Bahrainis stripped the runner who recently won the Israeli Marathon of his citizenship. He was originally from Kenya. He didn't ell anyone he was coming here let alone going to win it! I think Israel has the right to revoke citizenship of those who seek to undermine the State. ie Palestinian Arabs who get an TZ/Passport and go raise funds to shoot Israelis

Israel is on a state of war from 1947 to the present day.Treason against the State during war,is a Capital Offense!!!Revoking citizenship is not enough.Jew or no Jew,if anybody betrais the State,he should hang!!!!!

Many Arabs and leftist Jews are engaging in High Treason. They need to be stripped of all rights as a citizen.

. The thought that the State of Israel = Medinat Hajuhudim should have a law in its books to revoke its citizenship for what is called disloyalty is revolting. The only case one should invisits such a step is when Israel High Court in more than a single judges decision agrees to such a step.

Way overdue, slowly we are mooving in the right direction!

A good bill question is will anybody ever have the guts to use it in a country that seems to be getting more and more politcly correct. They also need to specify what would be the disadvantages to being stripped of citizenship will it simply be loss of a passport or will there be a loss of rights that avalible to Israeli citizens.

It is about time that the State of Israel use the law to defend the Jewish State. No person, Jew or Gentile should be allowed to enter Israel and seek its destruction.