German museum refuses to return Kafka manuscript to Israel

"Kafka`s artistic contribution is to German literature, or not?" Nope, I would rather say that he contributed greatly to world literature rather then only to the German one. BTW he indeed also wrote in Hebrew and Yiddish, but you don't seem to know that. Even though he wrote in German he was Czech, as a matter of fact! This problem will be solved. Not every auction sells are legal, even though there may have been no objections at the time.

If anything they should be returned to the Czech Republic. Studying my history books, Israel didn't even exist when Kafka wrote his works.

They don't belong to any individual; they are the property of a library. What's your problem?

"but I am told there is a law in Germany that allows anyone who is of "German culture" who passes an examination can become a citizen of the BunesRepublic." Wrong again. There were distinct areas of German population in Russia, descendents of German emigrants invited by the Russian czars in the 18th century. These ethnic Germans were allowed to re-emigrate to Germany after the fall of the Soviet Union. Therefore it is not a case of "German culture". "but it might be that some people in the BR regard anyone who wrote in the language is of the German nation, so . . ." I cannot exclude that some Germans lack basic education and therefore have the same wrong understanding that is displayed in some posts here, but such cannot reasonably be the basis for discussion.

I may have misintepreted the Bismarck thing, but I am told there is a law in Germany that allows anyone who is of "German culture" who passes an examination can become a citizen of the BunesRepublic. It don't matter where you where born, but if it was a German culture, and you still speak the language you are in. That includes the Volga Germans who "returned" from Russia, Saxons from Romania, . . . It's a Law of Return of sorts for "Germans". I may have got the literature thing wrong, but it might be that some people in the BR regard anyone who wrote in the language is of the German nation, so . . .

"It is said that Otto von Bismarck had a dream of uniting of all the German speaking peoples together" I don't know what history books you are reading, but obviously they are crappy. Bismarck was the proponent of the so-called "kleindeutsche Loesung", the unification of Germany under Prussian leadership and EXCLUSION of the Austrian-german parts. And whatever your post was meant to say: All those mentioned contributed to German literature. It is grotesque to introduce the concept of nationality into philology. I recommend you look up a definition of philology. I recommend to have a look at the overview at http://de.wikipedia.org/wiki/Philologie

If I read the item about the most recent Nobel laureate for Literature it was a woman who was born in Romania, of the Saxons, the German speaking minority who lived there for centuries. She left for Germany after her political protests caused her to leave her home in . . . Paul Celan, one of the most important German poets was born Austro-Hungarian, in Czernowitz aka Cernautz aka Cernovtzi, now part of the Ukrainian Republic. He died in Paris. So did Heine, the premiere German Jewish poet who died in Paris. Kafka, Rilke, Eichendorf, Max Frisch, the Zweig brothers, and a score other German writers who weren't "Made in Germany circa 1871-". Some of them were even Jewish, like Elsa Lasker-Schiller, who was buried in Jerusalem. She wrote some exquisite German poetry. It is said that Otto von Bismarck had a dream of uniting of all the German speaking peoples together, no matter where they were born, so . . . Likely that is what motivating the Germans with this Kafka thing.

You ridicule yourselves with your feverish attempts to un-germanize Kafka. Note that what is "German literature" is defined by the German language, not by any poet's nationality. But I concede that all of Kafka writings in Hebrew may be considered as contributions to pre-Israeli literature .. if you find any.

consider himself German. Kafka was born and died in Prague.Last time I looke it was and is a Czech City. His Parents were also born in Bohemai region of Czech towns. Hermann was the fourth child of Jacob Kafka,a ritual slaughterer,and came to Prague from Osek,a Czech-speaking Jewish village near Písek in Bohemia.After working as a traveling sales representative,he established himself as an independent retailer of men's and women's fancy goods and accessories,employing up to 15 people and using a jackdaw (kavka in Czech) as his business logo.Kafka's mother, Julie (1856?1934),was the daughter of Jakob Löwy,a prosperous brewer in Poděbrady,and was better educated than her husband. Except for writing in German Kafka never cosidered himself German. His families other connection to German dead of sisters.Franz's sisters were sent with their families to the Łódź Ghetto and died there.Ottla was sent to Aushwitz. Kafka dreamed of life in Yishuv(under British)now liberated Israel.

As I have already pointed out in the first talkback: the value of Kafka's writing lies in the contents, not in the original paper. If the Israeli librarist is not greedy, he should be contented with a good copy.

The point is that the Hoffes have absolutely no right to anything. Kafka wanted the MS burnt, fortunately Max Brod did not do this. This does not give his girl friend's daughters any rights to anything. Marbach is taking great care of the MS and there should be a copy in the Israel Museum. It would make more sense for the Israel Museum to concentrate on saving what is still in Israel (as far as I know in terrible conditions) whereas (I have seen it) Marbach is as good as any archive can get.

No, Kafka probably would not have felt ashamed of having written in German - it was his mother tongue. And despite all that happened, German would still have been his mother tongue. Keep in mind that Einstein's final words, before he died, are lost forever, because he spoke them in German but no one was around that understood that language. You never part from you mother tongue.

... Sammy Ofer, owner of the world's largest collection of Marc Chagall works? No? I'm sure that being one of Israel's top billionaires has proven useful to him. Being a 75 years old poor holocaust survivor is certainly a more vulnerable position. Some would say that Chagall's paintings "belong to lovers of great art", not to individual hands, but they don't: They belong to Sammy. The Germans legally bought "The Trial". It belongs to them. (Additionally, I've been told that the people in Marbach have fantastic, superior facilities to keep them safe. Isn't that what matters?)

Kakfa was Jewish. He never saw himself as German. He was born in Prague then part of the Bohemian territory of the Austrian-Hungarian. His father's mother tongue was Czech. He went to school in Prague and also attended the German langauge Charles University in Prague. Together with Max Brod (also a Czech German speaking Jew) and Felix Weltsch (ditto) they formed the "Prager Kreis". That's Prague. The days of the Holly Roman Empire of the German Nation was Disestablished in 1806. A unified country called "Germany" was not created until 1871 and Bohmenia was not part of it. By the time Kakfa was born (1883) Czech nationalism was widespread and in October 1918, following the collapse of the K&K empire, Czechoslovakia was established as a sovereign state. Kafa did not assimilate to either German or Czech culture. He saw himself as a Jew and also increasingly a Zionist. Following anti-semitic violence in 1916 we started to prepare to move to Palestine and took up learning Hebrew...

Yes, I read the article. It's recommended reading for everyone interested in the case: http://www.spiegel.de/international/world/0,1518,651859,00.html

"Come off it! Are you suggesting that the Hoffe`s are going to do something desperate? Perhaps they`ll burn the papers? Perhaps they`ll burn the museum?" I'm not speculating. I just have information about the case. I suppose that you know that the National Library actually SUED the Hoffes (!!!). So I was talking about legal developments. That kind of change, no fires.

Well, the best thing about this dispute is: If a GERMAN museum does not voluntarily want to give away papers of a GERMAN speaking and writing AUSTRIAN author belonging to the JEWISH people, something has changed. And if Kafka's books and not "Mein Kampf" is even offered as regular school curriculum in GERMANY (I had to read "The Process" myself in a GERMAN non-jewish gymnasium) than change is definitely underway. And one thing becomes clear again: The JEWISH people will NEVER EVER die, their books will NEVER EVER be destroyed, no matter what.

Kafka was NOT German , did'nt write most of his works in Germany , where he only resided for a short time . He wrote in German , the "Kultursprache" in his native Checoslovakia .

Personally, I don't think Kafka was so shallow as to hold the German language responsible for the hatespeeches and crimes of the Nazis. Imho that argument is totally over the top. What I find interesting to muse about is, what would Kafka have thought about the Nazis publicly burning his books? Let's not forget he told his friend Brod to do exactly this with his papers! But imho it's only reasonable to assume that he would have understood, even appreciated that Brod disregarded the order, and made more of his work available to the public. And that he would have been proud to be an author the Nazis hated, among other geniuses like Albert Einstein, Lion Feuchtwanger, Sigmund Freud, Erich Kästner, Alfred Kerr, Heinrich Mann, Thomas Mann, Karl Marx, Arthur Schnitzler, Bertoild Brecht, Kurt Tucholsky, Carl von Ossietzky etc etc etc. There was and is nothing wrong with writing in German. Some of the best minds of mankind, no friends of the Nazis, them, used that language!

Let's not forget that Kafka was a Jewish Austrian born in Prague and writing in German language. So, at least four countries have a strong interest in him. And I think the public, and literature in general, is well served if his work is archived and reasearched in all of these nations. Kafka was a complex character, and it's only reasonable to look at him and his work from all those different angles. I thank you for siding with Germany on this issue, but I guess we both agree that no single country should have a monopoly on him, imho. There's nothing wrong with some Kafka papers being preserved in the Israeli national library, but there's also nothing wrong with other papers and manuscripts being archived in Prague, Vienna and Marbach.

QUOTEnot only that db, but if ANY country has prior claim to these works; it would be GERMANY! kafka was german, he wrote them in germany in the "german" language. they are "german" treasures; NOT israeli! they belong in a german museum.QUOTE Kafka wrote in Prague (my father knew him) and not in Germany. He wrote for a German-speaking population. Marbach acquired the MS legally and is taking great care of it. Why not put a copy into the Hebrew University Library? And Kafka wanted it burnt. Why should the daughters of his friend's girlfriend profit?

Sadly, Franz Kafka prematurely died in 1924, when he was not yet 41. Had he survived 9 more years, undoubtedly he would have feel ashamed of himself for ever having written in German.

This is very cheap sensational journalism and does not bring the few real facts. 1. The museum bought the manuscript at an open auction. 2. No reserve were made by anybody. 3. The rightfully holder decided to sell them (their reasons why) 4. Apparently Israeli institutions think (wrongly) that everything jewish they like should go to them for free.

"especially not the daughters of the secretary of the friend of the author"~db with what sort of skewed logic do you conclude they have no right to their possessions? and what definition of "decency" is dependent upon the relinquishment of family treasures? not only that db, but if ANY country has prior claim to these works; it would be GERMANY! kafka was german, he wrote them in germany in the "german" language. they are "german" treasures; NOT israeli! they belong in a german museum.

... not great lovers of fiction.

The "Literaturmuseum der Moderne" (Museum of Modern Literature) in Marbach, Germany certainly fits the description. It's a brand new building dating from 2006, equipped with the most modern state of the art technology for perfect conservation and storage of the precious manuscripts archived there: http://www.tridonicatco.com/kms/cms/kms.php?str_id=562&id=2035 It holds one of the world's largest collections of Kafka manuscripts. And since Kafka wrote in German language, the most respected archive of modern literature in Germany certainly is a good place to preserve his work. This is not in conflict with Max Brod's last will, since he expressly wrote about a "public archive in Israel or abroad". And, after all, even the Director of the Israeli National Library, Harnoi, admits "It is true that our storage capabilities do not meet international standards". So, should there really be a big controversy about the whereabouts of Kafka's manuscript of "Der Process"?

Seriously, guys, it has never been property of those who expect the "return". But I see a pattern. Israel just "ordered" two Korvette battleships in Germany (or should I say asked to return?) and asked the German government to pay for them. Its going through the Media right now and I recommend everyone to read the comments regarding such "chutzpah"...

..in the international edition of German Weekly Der Spiegel. Quite recent, published just three weeks ago. May interest you, imho.

Israel can have all manuscripts in Hebrew and Yiddish, but those written in Kafka's native tongue belong to Germany. Kafka's artistic contribution is to German literature, or not?

I know nothing about the family that holds these manuscripts. I do however know that the manuscripts and their value are larger than this family's personal financial concerns. Had they been thinking in the right way they would have done their best to provide them with a secure home in a respectable research facility. Certainly the 'Hebrew University' is such a facility and is a major candidate for their reception. Brod after all spent the last part of his life in Israel, and Kafka in his terminal illness aspired to make Aliyah. Nonetheless even if they do not go to the 'Hebrew University' they should be in an established research facility where scholars and yes general readers can eventually have access to them.

This made me curious and I googled for further details. Looks like the Schocken family bases their legal claims on the fact that grandpa Schocken had publishing rights for Kafka's work. How they construe from this any physical rights to the manuscripts certainly is an interesting case of legal arguements, to say it carefully. Hoffe, on the other hand, inherited the papers from Max Brod, who received them from Kafka himself. Looks like a strong claim, and it was reinforced by a court judgment in Israel in 1974. But still, the State of Israel and the rich and powerful Schocken family want to rob the old Hoffe sisters, both Holocaust surviors and not wealthy at all, of their inheritance. It's a shame.

By what devine right do you make this absurd claim? Is it the same right that allows you to challenge the Will of Mr. Brod, which bequeathed all Kafka's writings in his possession to his daughters? Alas, O' Israel, in your frenzy of greed you seem to forget that your claim of being a "Jewish State" does Not make you heir to the possessions of all Jews, past and present.

I think they should send the team from Yad Vashem to steal it, like they did with the Bruno Schulz paintings from Ukraine

"Things are going to change very soon. Mark my words." Come off it! Are you suggesting that the Hoffe's are going to do something desperate? Perhaps they'll burn the papers? Perhaps they'll burn the museum? If the Hoffe's had an ounce of decency, they'd donate the papers to the National Library. They are nationally and internationally important, and shouldn't belong to any individual -- especially not the daughters of the secretary of the friend of the author. If they were Kafka's daughters, then I could understand their claims, but they're not in any way related, so should stop holding the papers hostage for money.

Was it ever in the National Library in Israel? If not, how can it be returned? Or is there something in the "law of return" that the rest of the world doesn't know about or agree to, that means that everything from Reb Nachman of Breslov's remains to Kafka's manuscripts BELONG in Israel?

Should we excpect a comando-like action in Germany on behalf of National Library as the one done by National Museum agents in Ukraine (to bring the frescos of Schultz to Jerusalem)?

All the bashing against the Hoffe family -the legal owner of the documents- is not by chance. It's a long story. To put it short, back in the 30s, the Shoken family -then publisher of Kafka's books, and Haaretz founders/owners- held the manuscripts in their safes in Germany for some time. For some reason, they expected not to return them to Brod. But they had to. Now the Israeli national library wants to steal them from the legal heirs, and Haaretz is bizarrely portraying the Hoffes like criminals. It doesn't matter: Things are going to change very soon. Mark my words.

...but it was worth a try.