Geneva synagogue destroyed in fire; police suspect arson

Swiss means nothing

not!

say sorry all that said it was anti-semetic, especially you lynn, as i said , you jumped to conclusions too quickly.

Jake, you are definitely wrong. Israel does have a 3 year army service for men but Switzerland doesn't. I did the army service there last year and it's 21 weeks basic training plus 6 repetition courses of 3 weeks each. Where did you hear that story with the 3 years from? The argument with the weapons is right. Every fool gets an assault rifle plus ammunition to take home which causes a death toll of 300 a year (husbands shooting their wifes, suicide etc). However, it's not like in the US where everybody can buy a gun.

Nice to read a rational person in this forum,..your statement was a fair one, point well taken.

Israel wants to knock holes through the walls of the Holy Sepulchre? You mean Israel carries out all repair work on it, so the wall doesn't collapse. Disgusting slander.

Dino: Thank you for the politeness and clarity of your response. To the others, looks like I hit a nerve. This is not about the settlements your country ultimately made for what its people stole 60 years ago. It's about your silence on it until you were forced to act and it's about your lack of outrage that a synagogue could be burned to the ground in your country today. I too have issues with Israel's harshness in the Occupation but that is not the point of this discussion. There have been anti-semitic acts in Switzerland long before the "occupation". I am suggesting that the Jews are too small in number or strength to stop it and I am saying that the rest of us NEVER have done enough to stop it. That is OUR shame; whether Swiss or American or whatever.

It is good news. I will apologize for having jumped to conclusions.

Amnesty International is not too happy with the Swiss either. New laws passed on illegal immigrants can cause the loss of social security benefits for women and their incarceration for up to two years while waiting deportation. the laws affect minors as well who wiould also be incarcerated. BTW, knowledge is the key to everything.

Thanks for posting! God bless the evangelical community there in Switzerland. -- from an American evangelical.

Swiss hostility to Jews and Israel is evident just by reading their bigoted biased anti Israeli comments. #66 Swiss, Palestinian suffering is of their own doing. In addition forcing 1 million Jews living in Arab countries to flee to Israel and to the West is perfectly OK and is not a crime.

"Nothing ever happened to foreiners here in Switzerland. Jews or non jews" - Swiss, Haaretz Talkback "Amnesty International condemned tighter Swiss immigration and asylum laws in its annual report on global human rights."www.swissinfo.org "Nothing ever happened to foreiners here in Switzerland. Jews or non jews" - Swiss, Haaretz Talkback "Racism is perhaps the biggest current social issue in Switzerland, with ongoing, none-too-civil debates raging about the absorption of foreigners into Swiss society ... ." http://switzerland.isyours.com "Nothing ever happened to foreiners here in Switzerland. Jews or non jews" - Swiss, Haaretz Talkback "Switzerland has competent mechanisms and motivated officials with mandates to combat racism, but at the national level this reality is not recognised". Doudou Diène, the United Nations special rapporteur on racism "Nothing ever happened to foreiners here in Switzerland. Jews or non jews" - Swiss, Haaretz Talkback

The synagogue was paid for by a Sudanese Jew called Gaon. The members are Sephardic Jews mostly from Egypt, Lebanon, Syria, Iran and Sudan. It was built about 30 years ago and was one of the most beautiful synagogues I have ever visited. Very tragic for the Geneva Jewish community.

It speaks well of you that you took the effort to post to say sorry, few people do that on these forums,that you chose to do so is noted and appreciated!

I lived in Switzerland, specifically Geneve, for two years for work. I've been to this synagogue, and to three others in that city. It is scary to see a synagogue that I've been to looking like this. However, I'm not surprised that it happened. In Geneve, every synagogue has armed security during services. To enter, I generally had to show every form of ID in my possession and tell a plausible story about why I was in Switzerland. There were bullet-proof doors. When men left the synagogues, they would stop first and put on baseball hats to hide their kippot. I was wearing an Israeli t-shirt on the bus one day, and a woman came up to me and told me to quickly put on my jacket and to never wear that shirt in public again. Whenever I asked, "Why?" I was told that all of these measures were in response to concerns after previous synagogue vandalism and attacks. It was an atmosphere of fear. I am not surprised.

It is anti-Semitism when they fail to mention the Congo, Darfur, Tibet, Iran, etc. It is obvious to everyone except the anti-Semites.

"Switzerland is a country that has yet to accept its horrid role in aiding Nazis and in stealing and keeping European Jewish wealth. " And the jews of Israel have yet to accept the catastrophe that the creation of that state caused many Palestinians...many Israelis even deny that any land was every taken, and they fail to take responsibility for what has occuerred in the west bank and gaza and for the thousands of acres of land that have been taken, wealth of a people that has been confiscated, so please don't lecture about people taking responsibility while Israel has failed to take ANY responsibility.

what has your post to do with the synagogue in Switzerland? Other then showing your racism?

In my country when someone does a despicable act such as this, we don't make excuses or compare it to other countries. WE usually help them rebuild it. That would include all faiths.

Hi all of you: stop crying stupide things and look to this (http://www.tdg.ch/pages/home/tribune_de_geneve/l_actu/geneve/detail_geneve/(contenu)/81989). Criminal act is no more suspected by the Geneva police. It seems to be due to an electric problem. So good news for all of you.

Birds of a feather...

Yup, I knew it.

I'm not sure of the numbers, but there is a strong Hamas faction there. I have also read there are 8,000 or so that are under watch. Similar to the UK. It was in the UNwatch.org Geneva site.

You need to read my post again. Nowhere in it did I say it was a Swiss citizen who did the fire. I said the people who built and attended the synagogue were Swiss citizens.

I guess nothing is sacred to those who wish to destroy. Such as the Church of the Holy Sephulcre, which Israel wants to knock holes through the walls. Although I guess thats alright as it is Israelis doing the vandalism.

...before we start the fingerpointing. It is the rational and fair thing to do. Police is still investigating wheter Islamists or Neo-Nazis are to blame, any blind accusations do not help. But this happening seems to be a good opportunity for many to postulate their prejudices and their hatred. Speaks for themselves, maybe they sould elaborate this with their therapists...

and the aim is to divert attention from Israeli crimes in Gaza.

Sorry Mohammed i wasn t aware that mosques were burned down. Here in the Spanish nothing was mentioned about. Yes I understand that some actions/decisions made by the Israeli government can generate hatred and linking burning it so synagogues, apparently this is what most probably happened. Great care must be taken not to confuse several things, most of the Israelis is in favor of what is happening in the palestinians territories, jews are not necessarily israelis. A jew from the holland is not Israeli, like a Muslim from holland is not necessarily an Arab.

Hello Swiss, I fail to see the comparison between the Irgun and what happened in WW2.In general the Irgun made their best efforts to avoid attacking arab civilians,the exception being in Jerusalem where the Irgun responded to Arab terrorism with some of their own.it doesnt make it okay but that was the context.As for Deir Yassin,though an atrocity did take place it was anot a planned one, many of the civilians were killed as the fighting was house to house and the explosives used by the Irgun and lechi to blow holes into the walls often caused casualties, it also appears that after the battle was some murder of civilians.This is all true, but if any one needs to pay compensation for terrorist acts it is the Arabs who used those methods as their first choice as the like of the "inferior" jews was worthless to them.Regards

World cannot get to the level of Israeli atrocities. Occupation, Kidnapping, Assignations, Bombing Civilians, Killing Pregnant Women?s, K..ling Children?s, Destroying Building and Homes, Bulldozing Orchards, Sewage lines, Power lines, Seizing Taxes, Imprisoning Thousands without trial, the list is never ending. These people have no morels or shame. Any one who speaks about these atrocities, they are immediately labeled as Anti-Semite. Just like they labeled President Jimmie Carter when he asked Israel to search it Soul.

Semsem, you are mentioning the number of 30'000 Jewish refugees who were rejected entrance to Switzerland, this is the official number of the Bergier rapport. However, new studies put the number much lower, at about 3'000. Which doesn't change anything, each single one was one too much...!!!!

Dust it under the carpet swiss. Like you have done through your banks. Hey, if it works why quit...

How do you know wheter Islamists are responsible or not? Why beeing on high alert? This is not Peshawar, different cultures coexist relativley peacefully in our country and Switzerland did not invade any Arab countries. Integration IS the way to go for peaceful coexistance, but it needs courage form both sides. Get over your "War on terror"-brainwash.

"Our police doesent now anything, which would allow to event have a hint of a crime. You people must have a real bad complex. Nothing ever happened to foreiners here in Switzerland. Jews or non jews." I hate to tell you this, but even the BBC has said Swiss police suspect arson. As for Jews having a complex, with all due respect, I seem to recall that Switzerland has a 3-year army service, and soldiers take home their service firearms afterwards, in a country that hasn't experienced war in hundreds of years.

Sorry

Salaam / Shalom Yaron, Surprise... They are already burning down Mosques there too... Don't you follow the news ? So, does that make us 'victims together' so we can cry wolf together ? I'm not justifieng in any way any terrorist act. Nor burning down synagoges, nor churches nor mosks. I do however point out that the people / army in IL do certain things that could generated hatred in other people. There is nothing illegal or irresponsible about linking this and does not condone burning down synagogues or other places of worship. There is however something manipulative about many reactions from IL people that are outraged about this 'unlinking'.

thank you swiss 2 for admitting your mistakes...i wish all people were as honest and bravre

Please stop saying that Geneva is anti-Semite place. There are stupid people everywhere and this not makes all of us anti-Semite. While some people may not like the Jews believing or tradition it does not make them ready or willing to set fire on synagogue or beating Jews...C'mon. Your statement is completely wrong and over exaggerated.

Lynn, I really admire your knowledge, but I am still surprised that you know with certainty that this was the act of a Swiss-citizen. Do you have any idea how many foreigners are crossing the Swiss borders everyday...??? So you would be well advised to wait with a final judgment till you get further info from the police....

#5 Swiss poster: Murdering Jews is a "crime against humanity." Murdering Jews is not according to your post. Self defense is not a crime. However the Swiss expulsion of 30,000 Jews to Nazi Germany during the war is a "crime against humanity."

I want to believe in the goodness your country, but honestly....neutral is just a nice word for being indifferent...and in the case of WWII it means being indifferent towards the thousands of Jews who needed halp...Switzlerland is no better than France (and that's a real put-down!)

#6 Geneva has also changed. You see many Arab immigrants now. Arson attack could have been either Arabs or even local Swiss. Also Swiss foreign policy is generally hostile towards Israel.

Ralph, My place of worship does not preach hatred against any other religion. Please stop generalising. In my personal life I've seen more examples of Jews that hate Muslims than the other way round... I guess it's not us that need to see the light... But I'm willing to take that back, as such an attitude does not help you or me.

The Swiss authorities ought to have been on high alert for just such an attack, owing to the high Muslim population in Geneva. Instead, they chose to ignore the problem, just as the rest of Europe is ignoring the problem of Muslim integration. They will pay dearly for both lapses of judgement...

Kindly read Jean Ziegler's book: "La Suisse, l'or et les morts". This will give you some insight on why the potential for Anti-Jewish arson is alive and well in Switzerland.

Brant, you are correct, the refusal to grant a number of Jewish refugees a safe place in Switzerland and as a consequence to send them back to Germany was a terrible mistake. And although the soldiers who sent them back most probably didn't know that this rejection would mean the death penalty for the refugees (there were rumours 1942, but no certainty) it still will remain a dark spot in our histo- ry. But I would strongly contradict you, when you say that we didn't clear off this part of our history. We did that about 10 years ago and compensated the Jewish organizations in the U.S. with about double the amount our banks had taken during WW2. I agree that the clearing off with regard to the dark spots of our history came (much) too late, but at least it came. Something we are still waiting for to see happe- ning in the U.S. (Indians), Israel (Irgun) and parts of the Muslim world (Armenia massacre for example).....

What a load of rubbish you talk! Switzerland is one of the few countries which has completely reformed its history, the Bergier rapport and the claims resolution tribunal for dormant funds on which I worked. the swiss now know very well that Hitler was not dettered by the greatness of the swiss army!!!!!!

So Mohammed it would be not surprising if we would burn down Mosques in Spain, UK, USA because of the islamist attacks in those countries? It would not be surprising if we would attack Imans in the street? Nobody should attack for whatever reason, and arguments like it is understandable are helping justifying such attacks. What is the relation between a Jewish Cultural/religious centre to ISraeli politics. I wouldn t think blaming of blaming for Al Qaeda practices or other yihadist

Yeah Haaretz must be paranoid! I saw the news here in Spain even before than in the Haaretz. El Pais, is considered left wing, and with anti-israeli bias. http://www.elpais.com/articulo/internacional/incendio/destruye/sinagoga/Ginebra/elpepuint/20070524elpepuint_19/Tes Guess what? They talk about arson. But hey, Israelis and jews are paranoid.

An EU report in 2003 found that most attacks against Jews in Europe were by Muslims.

Your places of worship preach hatred against Jews (and others), which is the real reason you're not surprised. It is also the reason why you and your ilk will remain in misery until you can think for yourself and shake the hatred off. I don't think there is a "risk" of that happening anytime soon ...

It seems to me too many ugly people filled with hate and bigotry are taking over from the nicer people on the planet. I can't imagine anyone being hateful enough to burn down any church, synagogue, temple, shrine, or mosque. It is just despicable.

Again and again, it?s nice and good to reiterate the holy places and all and everywhere must respect worship palces. However, before crying terrorism, Islamism, Swiss racism or even neo-nazism, one should wait the conclusions of the police inquiry. To those who treat Swiss and Geneva people as racist, I say they should refrain from saying such ungrateful thing since this is as true as in very other country of the world and compared to Israel, it?s nothing. So be honest dear ?friends?.

I find it hard to believe you don't read myposts, you certainly read this one! Read post #9 and others from the Swiss.

Shame on you! These people are your countrymen and not Israelis. How would you feel if it was the mosque you attend? Stop being a dupe for the extremists!!

No excuse for it!! Those people are citizens of their country, even if Jewish. And from whatI have been reading, when it comes to MUSLIM EXTREMISTS, no one is exempt. This is not a Palestinian/Israeli issue, it is happening all over the world to all groups of religions. You sure can't blame the murder of Christians, Buddhists or Hindus on Israel and that is exactly what is happening in more then one country This makes me very angry. This was just plain racist.

Let`s wait and let`s hope the Palestinians aren`t behind this attack.Or Al-Qaida.Israel must prepare itself through Mossad to respond abroad.Don`t ask me how.

"Nothing ever happened to foreiners here in Switzerland. Jews or non jews." #5, Part of the problem is that you see Swiss Jews as "foreigners" instead of Swiss citizens. Just look at the language of you post.

Anyone have a clue?

Several Swiss posters are frequent finger pointers at Israel,for what they perceive to be Israel's unjust treatment of the "oppressed" Palestinians and, at Jews in general for being so "sensitive" about anti-Semitism or "playing the Holocaust card". That a synagogue burning could occur in Genevea in 2007 is not only an outrage; it is a blemish on the lovely, neutral, helpful self-image the Swiss so love to promote. Switzerland is a country that has yet to accept its horrid role in aiding Nazis and in stealing and keeping European Jewish wealth. Yes there are many Swiss who helped Jews and there are millions who will feel the same outrage at what happened today. But that does not excuse this occuring in that bastion of self-satisfaction. The Jews are too small a people to stop anti-semitism. The rest of us have this insane expectation of them. We admonish them for the smallest offense, but we do nothing to stop the vicious acts of hatred against them on our own soil.

The problem with Israeli policies is that they think they can do anything in the Palestinian occupied territories (including the killing of an innocent Palestinian farmer this morning), then try to justify that by claiming that the others (The Swiss in this example) are the bad guys, trying to portay any incident as anti-semitism (meaning against the Jewish faith which the majority respect as faith), whereas the real issue is the crimes of Israel against the Palestinian people, and their continuous violation of International law (see the amnesty int. report). What if the incident turns out to be just an accident? When this pathetic zioniost sing-song will end?

It's a disgrace to burn a place of worship, whatever religion you are from. But the Israeli's should stop cry-woolfe. The way they treat their neighbours is shamefull, and they should not be surprized that many people hate their country for that. That does not justify in any sense the arson, but they should stop cry as 'look, look, there's a new holocaust upcoming'....

In the Galut (outside of Israel,) Thursday, May 24th, is the Jewish holiday of Shavous, when the synagogues are filled with people. I do not believe that the selection of this date was an "accident." Some five years ago, arsonists set fire to a small synagogue in Key West, Florida, in the United States. I do not believe that this has ever been solved, or any arrests have been made. Bnaizionkw.org has a complete description of the crime, and how the Christian neighbors helped the small Jewish community of Key West to rebuild. Synagogue burnings are despicable.

If you read your history, you will learn that the Swiss turned back refugeees, especially Jews, during WWII and assisted the Germans in stealing the property of "missing persons". The Swiss "neutrality" wasn't as pure as you imply.

If not racially motivated,then what? out of love for the Jewish people? Obviously there is no security at this particular shool in Geneva,here in Milan our central shool has 24 hour police protection.

It is easy to quickly jump to conclusions about who is to blame. Reminds a bit off dark medieval Europe, where the Jew always did poison the well, without the need of seeking any proof. Police investigation is ongoing and still is in an early stage. All please calm down a bit and wait for further evidence. Sure, it is possible, even likley that the reason for this fire is founded in racially based arson. If this provesto be true then I hope the responsibles are found and punished in the hardest possible way our law allows.

Sorry friends, I was probaly wrong. Now, it seems that the fire has been a crime. And this is realy terrible! Unbelivabel-, and this happens in switzerland! Sorry again.

Thank you for your kind words, I agree with you and I am sure that the sympathy you are showing would please the members of the synagogue in question and Jews worldwide too. Israel makes a point of never targetting religious buildings, hence the policy of terrorists using them as hideouts. The burning of a religious building, be it a mosque, a shul, a church, whatever, is cowardly and pointless. It proves that the argument is one of religion, not land, not history, not honour, just pure racism. I am glad, Tamir, that there is at least one platform on which we may stand together. My consolations to the members of this shul, I hope that you will soon find a new place to pray, have community activities and comtinue to practise our religion in safety.

Dear Real Swiss! I'm really Swiss, too, and I know the Swiss media oh too well. I also know this Synagogue very well, and to be 'entirely in flames' when the fire fighters arrive, the fire cannot just have been started by a tiny spark... And Viper - I agree. Knowing Switzerland as well as I do, there is no need for "Arabs" to do something like this. Many 'real Swiss' people are racist enough...

Sorry to say, dear Tamir, but the fact that you outed yourself a while ago as a supporter of Mr.Super-corrupt Mohammed Dahlan in Gaza, leaves a few doubts on your ability to make the right political judgements ("All Swiss are racists"). And I can't be sorry for this attack (because I didn't have anything to do with it), but I am outraged, because as you stated, there is no political justification whatsoever to attack holy sites. Therefore shame on those who did this !!

The tone of your comments further underlines the likelihood that this was arson.

There are Swiss banks behind every regime or terrorist group. Evil in the short term is profitable but the Swiss have less time left since they ended up siding with the Islamofascists that don't care about money.

You are either ignorant, haven't read your history books or in complete denial. The Swiss sent refugees from their borders, straight to their deaths in camps. I have, personally seen Swiss behavior, while visiting one of the fine hotels in Zurich. When they found out where I came from, they tried to change my already, acknowledged reservations, however, my companion came from Germany and she was an old client, we got the reservation. My suggestion was to go to another hotel, or/better yet another country. Being "neutral" is no excuse for total ignorance. Unfortunately, you are wrong!!!

Over 800 years of Swiss canton history and never has there been a synagogue burning like this! We are very sad to see this occuring again, France is already a dangerous place, now Switerland?! There will be an event for evangelical swiss Christians this weekend to demonstate our solidarity with Israel in this difficult and tragic moment.

Lynn, I just saw the article, so you can regard my question on the other thread as canceled. Geneva has quite a significant Muslim popula- tion and is frequently visited by rich Arabs from all over the world. I think I told you before, sooner or later the ME conflict will spread to Europe and the responsability for that is laying only with the 2 stubborn parties involved. However, there are lots of other "suspects" around than Hamas (Al Kaida/Hezbollah/supporters of the (very small) Swiss-Nazi party etc...). As far as I know, Hamas has refrained till today from exporting the ME conflict to Europe, so we better should wait for the facts before making a judgement.

They burned my old synagogue! Not very nice indeed! And there are still dumb heads who ask me why I left Switzerland!!

How could the someone do this? where is the right and where is the justice??

Generally all kind of Holysight places should be respected and as a Palestinian I'm sorry about this. The Swiss are racist.

I agree with you, totally. Me and my family left Geneva years ago at a time when everything still seemed to be fine. It never was, even then... We never regretted our move, and won't regret it now, for sure...

Unbelivable, since I have been reading all the news papers today, Haaretz is the first one, whichs speaks about arson.Our police doesent now anything, which would allow to event have a hint of a crime. You people must have a real bad complex. Nothing ever happened to foreiners here in Switzerland. Jews or non jews. We just dont have the mentality to go after people or races. What bothers me much more is the fact, how the Israelis treat the Palsand that they think, that they have more rights thean the rest of the world. Thats a crime against humanity and thats the real issue, the world should talk about!

there have been other attacks and they were racially motivated but not by arabs nor muslims, we have had attacks here, but there by white people ( non-muslim/arabs) i see your quick to blame before the facts, regardless if in this instance an arab did it, you don't know yet, this is why i don't read your posts anymore, too quick to judge.

Suddenly I see our synagogue burning in 1938, when I was a child in Germany. History is repeating itself, and the European countries do nothing about it. The EU is like a rebirth of Germany,Austria, Holland, Switzerland, France, and all of the other guilty countries. No surprise here! It is very sad and frightening

Not surprised. There is considerable antisemitism in Geneva and one feels it. I recently overheard the following conversation in a Geneva cafe: "The Jews have been hated since they left Egypt (I assume he meant Moses.) The response: "yes theystick together among themselves." Another conversation regarding the Chabad synagogue: "since they moved here I am too scared to go post a letter."

As I said, Hamas and radical Islam are operating in your country too.