Funding problems may expose home front to missile threats

Too bloody right it is that many Americans don't agree with the president...his approval rating is now 29%...with a rating like that an English PM would have to call a vote of no-confidence and call an election. But Bush can't be got rid of although the Democrats in Congress are trying desperately to stop him...it makes me so angry to know, and I do know from family/friends in London, that so many people worldwide judge Americans by Bush...they don't know the whole story, and the election fixing is only a part of it. Bush, Cheney and Gonzales are truly sinister. He is conducting a war the American public don't want, that has been made all too clear from polls, he doesn't care, he considers himself God's representative on earth with God's power...

WE ALREADY KNOW ABOUT THE ELECTION FIXING YOUR PRESIDENT HAD DONE, we know how he has blasphemed in the name of god, and unfortunately 50%+ see all americans are the same, i am trying to make them see the light as i think there is good and bad in all, and not ALL americans agree with there president, with enough advertising anyone, race or country can be made to look like a terrorist, till then my friend, we will have no peace.

The president who started an unnecessary war for his own benefit, the corruption in his administration, the secret operations of his vice president, and worst of all! His disgusting sanctimonious mention of God in his every speech, as if he has a direct link with God's will here on earth! This to a non-believer like me is the most incredible hypocricy. He is personally responsible for the deaths of over 4,000 Americans in his war in Iraq and who knows how many Iraqis. Viper, please don't blame all Americans for this..if America had a parliamentary system rather than a republic, Bush and his team would have been thrown out years ago. His popularity rating is 29%, lowest of any president since Nixon's impeachment in 1972, and Congress is trying hard to rein him in with his reckless spending that benefits his cronies and not his country. It will take many years before the harm he's done to this country can be fixed, if ever. The two elections he won had very questionable results...

Israel could look like Dresden too. Mutually Assured Destruction is the term!

this is why i never assume all americans nor jews are bad, in your case your politicians don't care about the common man, they are greedy and corrupt, yet they have the audacity to label others criminals, terrorists, enemies and so on, if this happens in oz land there will be a mutiny for sure. the government of any country has an obligation to look after it's people first and foremost, seems the europeans are the only ones doing this.i'm afraid it's your president and his mates that is profiting from misery, intimidation and true terrorism, israel is not far behind my friend.

I'm old enough to remember Dresden. If the Arabs want a fight, it can be made so there are to few left of those that want to fight to make any difference!

Bankruptcy is on its way, you said. Yes, you're right...bankruptcy for America, if we keep throwing this amount of money at Israel like this...whatever happened to the idea that our own country should come first?

Even though Israel is already morally bankrupt, it will be financially bankrupt soon if it doesn't learn the lessons of history. (1) Deterrence only works for a short time, then the enemies will either have better weapons or have so little to lose that attacking doesn't have a very high cost. Right now the Arabs have so little to lose (Israel will kill them regardless what they do) they may as well attack Israel. In addition, they are getting better weapons every day. (2) Weapons spirals eventually bankrupt both sides. it is a matter who runs out of money first. In this case, the cost of weapons for the Arabs is minuscule to the cost for Israel, so Israel will go bankrupt first. Not only that but as long as Americans use oil like it was free, the Arabs will have a steady and increasing amount of funding. As the cost of oil goes up, Israel's enemies have more and more cash and the US/Israel have less and less cash. There is no way for Israel to survive by war.

It is a losing contest to keep building missile interceptors which may or may not work. Israel will only enjoy safety with leaders who are willing to restore its deterrence. This means not accepting any missile or rocket attacks. Any violations must result in a buffer zone putting the missiles out of range. If the Arabs and Iranians refuse to live in peace then they must face the logical consequences

This Missile Defense System will not work. You have developed a "Cold War" situation with Hizbullah and Syria. All of you have missiles that could destroy or cripple each others economy or social life. All parties are deterred from launching an attack because it would be a case of "mutually assured destruction". You need the same relationship with Hamas. You do not attack them, and they do not attack you. Missile Defense Systems cannot give you full protection from attack. Of course, the best way to go would be a peace treaty, but that requires common sense.

You might live in a nation which hides it's development fiascos behind the Official Secrets Act David, but Israel doesn't work that way.

"Uncle Sam will pay for it eventually because the U.S. is working on anti-rocket systems too and could benefit from any Israeli advances and experiences in this field." - Jeff You know who chopped funding for THEL first Jeff? You would be right if the US thought that Raphael was on to something. It clearly doesn't.

"What happened to Laser based system?" - Lemmings Hotline THEL was canceled several years ago. The usual problems, performance, cost and vulnerability.

the same schmucks that brought you Lebanon 2006 also previously cancelled, in November 2005, a "nearly" operational laser system (developed together with Northrop Grumman USA) ostensibly based on cost over runs and performance issues that all novel systems encounter. And how much did the lebanon debacle cost in lives and money? Check out the prototype Nautilus results at: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=nVxZ9IHTH2E&mode=related&search=

There is no funding problems with the home front organization.tHE ONLY PROBLEM IS THE COMPLETE INEFFIECENCY caused by the corrupt beaurocracy.When will the so called political managers realise that the public are not fools and idiots and do not accept the lieing excuses blaming the funding of the home front.

Unfortunately, If the Hillzbala rockets or the Hammas Qassamim fell on the Tel Aviv or the surrounding area I'm certain that the funding and development of the Iron Dome would have been found very quickly!!!!!!!!!!! But, as we know Qassamim are falling on the Negev and Katushut are in the North so what's the problem!

This is actually the kind of leak you get when the folks involved realize that the program is going to fail and they want to blame someone else. The whole thing started with a pie-in-the-sky announcement by a politician who was probably only interested in placating an upset populace. The main players in development were Rafael who's $100 million proposal was outlandishly low-balled, and the Defense Ministry Administration for the Development of Weapons and the Technology Industry. Clearly the project is way over budget, and way behind schedule. The interested parties are now trying to dump responsibility back on the politicians who will have to come up with a LOT more money.

"no money for bomb shelters so no money for rocket defense" - zionist forever We know bomb shelters work.

Financing development of ?protective Iron Dome? should be assured by an mentioned estimation of a hundred million dollars. An amount has to be found in the Defense Ministry?s budget! Declaring the inability to defend Israel?s territory and its citizen as expressed in this article is a government declaration of bankruptcy! which by all laws to be accompanied with governments resignation. The complete report creates a ? v e r y s t r a n g e p I c t u r e o f D e f e n s e M I n I s t r y ? s c o o r d i n a t i o n between its different d e p a r t m e n t s! Or are we facing a manoeuvre of frightening the population to get more money?

3. (cont.) anti-rocket guided missles (expensive), chain guns (cheaper), and tactical, high-energy lasers. Personally, I would go with the chain-gun option because it can be automated to fill the sky with lead on a collision course with the rocket based on the information obtained in 1) with no delay due to human intervention. These anti-rocket systems are just beginning to be developed and they have a long way to go before being perfected, but that is no reason to give up on them either. WW I tanks didn't work very well, but by WW II, the tank was something to be reckoned with. The whole point is to neutralize the last offensive weapon that Hamas and Hezbollah have no matter how much it costs and no matter how long it takes. After Hamas and Hezbollah realize that they can no longer attack Israel with any hope of success, what are they going to do? Tear their hair out and gnash their teeth in frustration?

1. (cont.) (which is possible since rockets are by definition "dumb" weapons and cannot change their course inflight), and c) automatically relay that information to the appropriate artillery batteries. The radar itself can be in fixed locations and directional since everybody knows in advance where the rockets will be coming from (more or less). 2. Use the information about the launch site of the projectile to counterfire that location with GPS-guided munitions (which are available from the U.S.) from 155 mm Howitzer or MRLS artillery units within less than a minute or two. This step can be partially automated with a minimum of human intervention and can be employed now. 3. Decide on the best way to shoot the rocket down. If the trajectory of the rocket as determined in 1) indicates an uninhabited impact area, then let it pass and do nothing. The anti-rocket systems today seem to be focusing on three possible methods for shooting down a rocket inflight:

"Hay guys does anyone have a rough idea about the cost of downing one qassam/Katyosha rocket by the iron dome system? I read 50000$ and 30000$. i am not sure?" - Shemo No idea, but those are not unreasonable guesses, they might be low. A lot would depend upon range and thus how many radars and fire control systems would be needed. Given the type trajectory of a very small rocket such as a qassam the system couldn't be too long ranged to begin with. It would be safe to estimate an interceptor cost of several thousand times the cost of the rocket to be intercepted. Such a system would be a great help to Islamic Jihad, imagine how greatly they could increase expenditures by Israel by only making more much cheaper rockets. Iron Dome could turn the qassam, a lousy bombardment weapon, into a mighty weapon of economic warfare. Perhaps it should be renamed "Iron Dumb."

Olmert still hasnt given homefront all of the money promised to do up the civilian bomb shelters which were unfit for use during the Lebanon war. Hospitals in the north had to beg for money to strenghen them from rocket attacks. If we are talking about not providing several million to do up bomb shelters then I cant see him rushing to provide $100 million to develop a defense system especialy as he lives in saftey in Jerusalem surounded by hundreds of body gaurds and is spending $1 billion on building a neuclear bunker for his own protection. Olmert is far away from Sderot or Hezbollah rockets fired into northern towns during wars he starts which have no clear aims and have achived nothing when it ended. ELAL care more for the vicitms of Sderot that Olmert by naming one of their new planes Sderot as an act of solidarity.

America isnt giving Israel $30 billion its $30 billion worth of American weapons over 10 years which is basicly increasing the $2.5 billion anual millitary aid to $3 billion. As iron dome is an Isrtaeli project and not an American made weapon then it cannot be bought with the millitary aid and the money has to be found by the Israeli government to pay for it this is nothing to do with America.

Uncle Sam will pay for it eventually because the U.S. is working on anti-rocket systems too and could benefit from any Israeli advances and experiences in this field. Note: contrary to some of the posts above, an anti-rocket system and an anti-missile system are two different things. It's much more difficult to shoot down a small, short-range, unguided rocket than it is to shoot down a large, medium-range, ballistic missile. I would recommend that Israel adopt the following order of development for a viable anti-rocket defense: 1. Get the radar nailed down first. Phased-array , low-altitude, radar systems already exist, but they need to be integrated into one, computer-controlled, super system. The requirements for the radar would be to a) detect any projectile the size of a grapefruit or larger from 30 Km. away in less than two seconds, b) automatically feed the raw data into high-speed computers to calculate the trajectory, speed, launch point, and impact point of the projectile

Uncle Sam will pay for it eventually because the U.S. is working on anti-rocket systems too and could benefit from any Israeli advances and experiences in this field. Note: contrary to some of the posts above, an anti-rocket system and an anti-missile system are two different things. It's much more difficult to shoot down a small, short-range, unguided rocket than it is to shoot down a large, medium-range, ballistic missile. I would recommend that Israel adopt the following order of development for a viable anti-rocket defense: 1. Get the radar nailed down first. Phased-array , low-altitude, radar systems already exist, but they need to be integrated into one, computer-controlled, super system. The requirements for the radar would be to a) detect any projectile the size of a grapefruit or larger from 30 Km. away in less than two seconds, b) automatically feed the raw data into high-speed computers to calculate the trajectory, speed, launch point, and impact point of the projectile

Uncle Sam will pay for it eventually because the U.S. is working on anti-rocket systems too and could benefit from any Israeli advances and experiences in this field. Note: contrary to some of the posts above, an anti-rocket system and an anti-missile system are two different things. It's much more difficult to shoot down a small, short-range, unguided rocket than it is to shoot down a large, medium-range, ballistic missile. I would recommend that Israel adopt the following order of development for a viable anti-rocket defense: 1. Get the radar nailed down first. Phased-array , low-altitude, radar systems already exist, but they need to be integrated into one, computer-controlled, super system. The requirements for the radar would be to a) detect any projectile the size of a grapefruit or larger from 30 Km. away in less than two seconds, b) automatically feed the raw data into high-speed computers to calculate the trajectory, speed, launch point, and impact point of the projectile

"Iron Dome does not have a dedicated administration, but the project is being properly handled by the Defense Ministry's Administration for the Development of Weapons and the Technology Industry. The administration staff is engaged in daily and constant contact with Iron's Dome developer Rafael." Translation - Everyone is trying to blame the other guy for the failure. The bottom line - Each Iron Dome interceptor will far, far more than the rockets it is designed to stop, can be overwhelmed by mass launches, and will do more harm that good to Israel. Iron Dome was a dream invented by Peretz to mollify an upset public and is behind schedule, over price and no one wants to take the blame.

Fifty years of reading Aviation Week has taught me to read between the lines of an article like this. "A senior official in the defense industry told Haaretz that the Iron Dome project "is advancing at a very slow pace, which contradicts the cabinet's resolutions on quickly setting up active defenses for towns and cities near the Gaza Strip and the border with Lebanon that have in past years come under repeated rocket attacks." He says don't hold your breath for Iron Dome to be deployed. "The official said funding must come from the government because none of the defense industry's companies can afford to develop a $100 million system such as Iron Dome." Translation - The estimated price is several orders of magnitude too low. "The radar has not yet been fitted to Iron Dome's requirements." Translation - The one part of the system already in existence can't do the job.

Why is this ridiculous discussion in the public domain. The funds come from government. The order comes from government and control of the project is by government. Who are these idiot officials who are simply raising their profile by going to the media. One meeting and it is all sorted out. So stupid and sack the idiots who think they can do business by media - they can't.

How stupid, and he is some one who is better then Peretz? What ever happen to our Zion patriots?

There is defensive system, and having it, it would be easer to get out of W.B.As barak said.

Strike first and eliminate the enemy soldiers and supporters and no one will be able to shoot the missiles at you!

So what this article is saying is that we are in almost the same situation as we were in last year when we the people of Northern Israel were under daily attack. What happened to the billions promised for our defense? How come Mr Olmert and his"gov" have done nothing to protect the homefront inevent of another war? Perhaps it is time to rid ourselves of such an incompetant leadership and Knesset!

#14 - Isn't it amazing? There is no point in having other fronts (such as the army!) without the normal population to defend! Thisis a real live "Chelm" situation. This is the carriage before the horses.....

Hay guys does anyone have a rough idea about the cost of downing one qassam/Katyosha rocket by the iron dome system? I read 50000$ and 30000$. i am not sure? Any idea?

These missile defense systems are a total waste of money and are only being developed to give the population a false sense of security . Barak himself said he would support turning Judea/Samaria over to terrorist control (just like Sharon did with Gaza) if there was this phony system in place. Qassam rockets actually do little damage so spending millions of dollars on a defensive system would prevent any significant amount of damage. A Qassam costs $20 dollars to produce, whereas each defensive missile would cost $20,000. Even if it were 80% effective, residents of Sederot would still have to run to shelters during each attack, so the psychological toll being taken on them wouldn't be reduced. The ONLY way to prevent the missiles being launched is to control the launch site areas, or in Lebanon, to distance Hizbullah from the border area.

No harm will be done by hitting Dimona if it is dismantled and all radioactive materials are removed from the site. This will also benefit its Israeli neighbors--Dimona is ill maintained and leaks.

Discard all work on domestic development and deployment, divert funds to acquire US antimissile defense; suggest aditional funding by dismantling roadblocks in West Bank, pulling troops out of positions near settlements; true zealots will defend themselves (leaving less time to harrass innocent Palestinians).

So Ehud + Ehud, does that mean it wont be safe to pull out of Judea + Samaria? And peace wont be assured now? What happened to the formula land for peace? Basically it was and is a myth. Land for terror is the reality. Barak thinks he can plaster up the cracks in this decrepid ideology by developing a missile defense, but if you had peace with your neighbours, u wouldnt need it! In Uk we have Peace now with the IRA, so they no longer fire missiles at us. We dont have missile shield, becasue we achieved real peace! Wake up Ehud!

Given the opportunity, Israel keeps coming. Like a child to granddad -- http://www.haaretz.com/hasen/spages/894644.html

I fail to see the relevance of funding for home front protection. How did the adequate funds help us last year?

I am not sure if you where alive last summer but didn?t Israel actually ?make clear to Lebanon/Hezb that their ENTIRE infrastructure, and every Shiite village and mosque, is flattened when Israel is hit with ball-bearing filled warheads? and still the threat is there. After the last speech of nassrallah, every politician, military man and citizen in Israel is praying day and night that Hezbollah doesn?t attack or escalate things because the man is not like the puppet Olmert, nassrallah keeps his promises. and when he says that he has a strategic weapon that would change the face of the region, then he has it. And you want to use napalm? An organization that can hit Haifa, can also aim at the chemical factories in it. An organization that has weapons that reach any place in Israel can reach Dimona nuclear plant. Good thing that in Isreal, and especially in the military there are still people with some sense and not senseless like you

Dont worry, the money will come in the right time... remember you have a rich diaspora...

after the initial panicking due to israel anti missile plans the hisballah may now relax-no funds available. but on a second thought ,i think they never panicked on the contrary the hisballh and their brothers from hamasstan had a reason to laugh again at one of the technological wonders envisaged by mr. peretz/barak.

Really, the agreement was just signed, and it calls for 2.5 billion the first year, so stop pretending that now Israel will be a military superpower with unlimited funds.

That money is not yet available. The so-called protective "dome" does not seem to be THE solution, please read other people's opinions on the feasibility and effectiveness of such a system, if it existed.

well well well, seems greed has reached israel too, i thought jews looked after each other no matter what, but all i have been seeing especially lately is everyone is looking out for themselves and bugger the rest, seems no one is immune.

In the end any anti-missile system will fail because the physics dictate that. For example some US ships have extensive defense systems against rockets, but the gaping holes have already been found, such as the missile defense systems can not be used if their are friendly ships within several miles/kms since the friendlies would become collateral damage! When will people wake up and realize that technology can NOT provide every solution? If Israel does spend the money, the people of Israel, just before they die, will one day find out just how much of a hoax missile defense systems are. As for massive retaliation, that works both ways. The more people Israel kills, the more Israelis will get killed. How many dead Israelis and Pals are enough to figure this out once and for all? Israel can NOT KILL its way to peace.

No matter how much the project is ideological in content. Indeed, if it only has ideological content, should one waste money upon it?

NO technology in Rafael or anywhere else is capable of exploding fragmentation warheads of Fajr-3 or Katyusha rockets high in the air. Hezb use these as indiscriminate area weapons, they don't aim, these rockets are inaccurate, so they don't care if the warhead hit Haifa or Qiryat Motzkin or Nesher or anywhere in between that they may be deflected to. A very expensive system MIGHT protect a very small point target like a specific building, but why bother, Fajrs can't hit one with certainty. BEST CASE, an anti-missile weapon might be able to deflect a Hezb rocket so it tumbles and hits a mile or two from where it was "aimed". Shooting $250,000 missiles at $50 Kassams is just plain meshugah!! Best defense is deterrence, a good offense - make clear to Lebanon/Hezb that their ENTIRE infrastructure, and every Shiite village and mosque, will be flattened if they ever attack Israel with these ball-bearing filled warheads again. Equal to using napalm (which Israel should reconsider vs. Hezb)

Ridiculous waste of time and money. The only credible and effective defense against missiles aimed at civilians is the certain knowledge of an overwhelmingly disproportionate and deadly response. That money should be spent on long range artillery and offensive ground to ground missiles to be used to exact a 20:1 kill ratio anytime the Islamic fascists lob munitions of any size or range into Israel from Hamastan, The French Protectorate of Hezzballah, or Fatahland.

Intercepting missiles is very hard to do. Have any successful systems even been developed before? Someone help me out, I do not receive Jane on my doorstep. $750M a year from the US for Israeli contractors should clear this right up, dontcha think?

All that money from America and Israel can't find $200 millon for something as important as missile defense. Strange.