Former Pentagon man gets 12 years, $10,000 fine in AIPAC case

I know someone who used to work for the U.S. Department of State. She is actually Jewish. Nevertheless, she is very much has a State Department mentality. She expressed resentment to me about supporters of Israel having influence over U.S. policy in the Middle East. In her opinion, such policy should be determined 100% by the State Department which, presumably, knows better than Congress and the President what is in U.S. interests. The word on the street is that the whole sting operation was driven by people in the FBI and the State Department who think similarly and wanted to punish Israel for the U.S. deciding to go to war in Iraq. They wanted to diminish Israel's capability of influencing U.S. foreign policy via AIPAC. Unfortunately, the result of their actions will be that there will be a weaker counter-influence against the real treasonous organizations in Washington, such as CAIR and United for Peace and Justice and all the pro-jihad wackos. Nice going, State.

Critics of Larry Franklin fall into one of three catagories: 1) people who care only about the letter of the law (keeping classified intelligence confidential) and not about the spirit of the law (using intelligence to save lives, provided it does not realistically compromise agents or sources) 2) anti-Semites, anti-Zionists, people who hate AIPAC or who hate all political lobbies 3) Jews who fear that anti-Semites will use what (Christian) Larry Franklin did to say that Jews have dual loyalty or that Israeli officials were somehow involved However, these three sets of motives for criticising Larry Franklin have nothing to do with the ethics of Larry Franklin. Larry Franklin wanted to stop innocent civilians from being kidnapped. If he failed to act, then, morally, he would be on the same footing as someone who is an accomplice to murder by knowing about it and not reporting it. Larry Franklin risked his career and his freedom to save lives without harming his country.

The U.S. government has a history of hiding life-saving information from its allies. This policy is not good for the safety of Americans. It reduces the willingness of our allies to share life-saving intelligence with us. People such as Larry Franklin understand that such policies need to change. Unfortunately, our bureaucracy is incapable of drawing distinctions between different types of classified information, such that it is utilized in the most ethical and stragically optimal fasion. Our legal system is also incapable of drawing these distinctions. Larry Franklin's actions should result in a review of these "intelligence" practices. Instead, his actions merely draw self-proclaimed patriots out of the woodwork as an opportunity for them to grandstand and point fingers.

Too many issues to cover..Treason Is Treason.I didn't think that was the purpose of a LAW...to be interpreted for your own needs. It all comes down to MONEY and POWER. Thats why our capitol is full of politicians and lobbyists. We have serious problems in our own little world maybe it's time to close those open arms and take care of our own problems first. Our ancestors fought and died for their FREEDOM. Some of the countries we have tried to help just do not believe in the concept of FREEDOM as outlined in our Constitution. So let them lead their lives in their own world.

".... there was no treason. Israel is an ally..... The government has agreed to accept Franklin`s story that HE brought up the subject with Israeli officials......He said that the Israeli officials gave him MORE valuable information than HE gave THEM....... They ALL were worried ABOUT Iran....... Some of the information was MADE UP by the FBI in a sting operation.." Hmmmm, I guess judging from the result of this trial, the Judge and prosecutor and all others involved in going after Franklin either 1) are all anti-semite, or 2) missed all the right facts that you seem to have! Franklin broke the law, and he knew it! At his position he knew full well "You do not take home with you classified information". He knew the sentences involved and he risked going to prison. What would someone in his position break his own country's laws and risk going to prison for talking to "lobbyists" for an organization well known for it's contacts and relationship with a foreign country?

"Israel would not have to spy on the US, if the latter nation were a true friend, which it is not"--Kate "Israel took out that Iraqi nuclear reactor and in doing so, essentially saved the free world. You should give thanks daily for that"--Kate If the US is not Israel's friend, who is? no one? are they all anti semite? Perhaps no one voted for creating the state of Israel on land that mostly doesn't belong to Jews? What about the veto power at the Security Council every time Israel pushes it an extra notch when commits crimes? The fact is Israel would not survive for few months without the Military/Financial US aid. Are you thankful for that? Israel took out that nuclear reactor with AMERICAN FIGHTER PLANES. Israel flew one mission, and we should be thankful. Are you thankful for what the more than 2000 fallen Americans heroes did for you in Iraq? Can Israel disarm Iran? When US and Europeans do, will you and Israel be thankful?

AMEN Holland - you've said what a lot of us here feel. Those of us who acutally use our brains, that is. Bush has harmed the USA worse than any so-called spy ever has.

Kate, 1) You wrote many times in these forums with words full of hatred towards Palestinians and others; you are the last to whine about "anti semitism". 2) Regarding the 40% of gifts given to American charities are given by Jews, can you provide us with the source of your information? Are you saying that on the average an American Jew gives 36.67 times (*see below) the amount any other American gives, and furthermore this is only to American Charities, none of which goes to Israeli Charities??? WOW, if we add what they give to Israel, then I guess the number may reach upwards of a 100, no just 36.67!! Evangelical Americans are among the highest givers to Charities, and there are FAR MORE of those than Jews. Were your numbers gotten from an "anti-gentile" or anti-American source? *Where does 36.67 above come from? 280 million Americans and 5 million of those are Jews. Kate's numbers mean 5 give 40% and 275 give 60%. This makes 40/5 divided by 60/275 gives you about 36.67!

j'accuse

Larry Franklin got caught violating the laws of the US. He admitted his guilt and was apologetic. The judge gave him a light sentence. He may see the light of day before he dies. He got off easy.

"It is in the US interest to provide Israel with strategic and tactical information." Yes, when it is on the US national interest. However, if we happen to think Israel will sell very sensitive information to our enemies that is not necessarily true. "The information shared should not harm the United States." That depends on who Israel sells it to. For the record, I am not with State (whatever that means), and have no position one way or the other concerning Human Rights Watch. Where did that come from?

It is in the US interest to provide Israel with strategic and tactical information. This should not be seen as an "either" "or" issue. The information shared should not harm the United States. I do think you are with State though and probably support groups like Human Rights Watch.

Israel and the United States DO NOT remain friends and allies - they remain nations who will cooperate with each other when cooperation is in their national interests. Of course, the same could be said about North Korea and the United States.

By "things" I meant tactical operations which would get substantial land gains for Israel in the area. As to ticking the US off, there were two problems. (1) Too many people have the silly notion of nations being friends and enemies. Politically it would not be possible to continue supporting and giving material aid to a nation which attacked an American ship in its own national interests. (2) There are a large number of Jews in swing states who would vote against your party in the net election if the Zionist aparat were to start condemning you as enemies of Israel. If the choice is between telling the truth and losing the next election, there is only one way for a politician to go.

This whole matter stinks like the Pollard case. Every country has lobbyists and they are never prosecuted no matter what they do. CAIR does outrageous things and they get away with it but let there be a lobbyist for Israel and immediately the state department ng is awry and wants to put them in jail. The whole idea that the Bush administration is pro Israel is a fantasy.

Once again Israel triumphed. We played another Amercian for a fool to sell us American secrets like Jonathan Pollard did. Now we have no use for Franklin because there are plenty more Americans like Pollard and Franklin who are dumb enough to sell American secrets for money, and when they gtet caught, screw them. We don't need them anymore.

"Please spell out for me why the US is obligated to give information to another government which will use said information in ways contrary to the national interests of the US." I have never said anything like that. In post 81 I was talking about the attack on USS Liberty and the Six Day War. On the contrary - in post #31 I said there is no such obligation. It is as certain as the fact that every country on Earth (including US) will try to gather information it needs to survive and propsper and that caught spies will be punished. I see no big deal there. Israel spies on US - US spies on Israel - and they still remain allies and friends.

You write: "The Librerty were reading the tactical traffic of the IDF at a time when the IDF was involved in things about which the US might not approve. If the IDF completed its campaign, it could then present the US with a fait accompli. The fear was that the US might yank Israel`s leash and make it stop its campaign before it had gotten what it wanted." You don't specify, so I have to guess which "things" you are talking about. However, at the point of attack on Liberty - afternoon of June 8th, 4th day of the 6 Day War - major fighting was concluded in Sinai and West Bank. The only question remained whether to open a third front on Syria. As the article points out (and documents), US KNEW that Israel was going to attack Syria. Israel relaid the information to US. US did not need USS Liberty in the region for full picture - it already had it. And from the common sense perspective, NOTHING ticks of US like murder of its citizens. Ticked of US could mean 1967 would repeat 1956.

for speaking against iran he gets 12! years

1- The US is not at war with its' ally\ 2-The US is not officially "at War" as there is no congressional declaration of war duhhhhh

well looks like AIPAC is done for.

I have to concur with Shimshon regarding Potobak, no one is suggesting that the US provide information detrimental to it's own interests quite the contrary. I think you should read #82 required reading.

Are you from the State Department? Just kidding. The point being that if the US had information say on specific arms deals that Russia was going to engage in via Iran lets'just widely speculate here... they should share this...there is information which will not harm the US which they do not (intentionally and directedly share) at the expense of Israel.

Hi Jewish brothers in USA, You cannot have dual loyalities like dual citizenships.Common Americans are fed up with these dual games played by Pollard and other Pro Israelis lobbyists.You are making billions in USA and your loyalities are with Israelis and its crazy policies.US Govt will think twice before they appoint any Jews to sensistive position as they maay comprise American security for their love for Israel.In coming US Congress elections all those got bribes and favours from AIPAC will be exposed and they will loose their seat.Shame on these Congressmen who talk about spreading democracy around the globe but filling their pockets with illegal means.

The Osirak strike generated a chorus of international condemnation that included then-U.S. Secretary of State Alexander Haig and then-U.S. Ambassador to the United Nations Jeane Kirkpatrick including a halt in F-16 fighter jet shipments from the United States to Israel. Had Begin not had the balls to order the strike, I think we can all agree that the world would be quite a different place. Here again, the leaked information was regarding a country both the US and Israel regard as hostile and a clear and present danger. An obvious sign that politics were certainly at play here.

I understand your position, however consider this Jews and Israel made more money for the U.S. then they cost the U.S., and in regards to all ales I have learned long time ago, the is no justice in this world, but it is noble to advocate human rights. ALL people are good and bad, you can?t please everyone. SO long............

Have not read and would be interested please post link. But you seem to be under the false impression that western intelligence agencies are supposed to help the "Jewish People" Why? If MI-5 had a choice between stopping a bomb in London and allowing arms to get to HAMAS to use in Tel Aviv it is obvious what it should do. If it were Mossad it would do the opposite. Should they both try and do both Yes, but the world is complicated and they will have different priorities.

I have seen nothing in any article which invalidate the points I made. Please spell out for me why the US is obligated to give information to another government which will use said information in ways contrary to the national interests of the US.

I remember the incident you mean and the brave man who was leaking the information realised he was breaking the law at the time and risked going to jail if caught. With hindsight he should have been given a medal not jail time. What actually happened I do not know. BUT that is with a lot of hindsight, in this case he got caught, he goes to jail, stop whinging. Did he do it as he claims as he was really concerned about Iran but those pinko liberals Cheney, and Rumsfeld would not act, or did he do it to try and show off his importance to AIPAC, or whatever. Will history proove him right lets tell him when he gets out in 12 years.

The big f**king deal, as you put it, is that the US and Israel have the right to share information that they CHOOSE to share, and not share what they don't choose to share. If, for instance, you know that the party of the second part would not hesitate to sell information vital to your national interests to an enemy, a country SHOULD hesitate to share.

No country can behave as you advocate. The choice has always to be what is in MY best interest. For the government of any country to help another against its own national interests would be an immoral choice for it to make. To go back to a topic discussed earlier, it would be immoral for a government of Israel NOT to attack the Liberty if not doing so would cost territory that government deemed critical to Israel's survival. Of course, this is only the case if that government is sure it can get away with it. Granting that (a) there are a large number of Jews in the US who would vote against any gevernment deemed to be an enemy of Israel, and (b) the loss of these votes in swing states would mean the other party would win the next election, Israel can get away with whatever it chooses.

"In general - Israel and US are the best kind of allies - ones that share the strategic view of the region. There can be disagreement on tactics between the two countries, but they share the same philosophy and the long-term view. By the way, this is the reason AIPAC is so "powerful" - half the time it is preaching to the choir." However that is why Israel needs to spy on US, and AIPAC or something like it needs to keep punping out propaganda. Nations do not have permanent friends they have permanent interests. Why is it in the interest of an Iowa Corn farmer or a Boston Longshoreman, etc to care more about Israel than any other nation on the planet. Why should they care more if an Israeli is killed in Tel Aviv than if a Sri Lankan is bombed there or an Indian in Dehli? Why at the extreme should they care if the political situation changes, and a democratically elected Islamic Egypt allies with a "democratic" Shia Iraq and Iran? They then attack Israel. Why should US care?

It was indeed a tragic event but they were not US Secret Service aganets. BEIT LAHIYA, Gaza Strip ? A remote-controlled bomb exploded under a U.S. diplomatic convoy Wednesday, ripping apart an armored van and killing three Americans in an unprecedented deadly attack on an official U.S. target. The State Department identified the slain Americans as John Branchizio, 36; Mark T. Parson, 31; and John Martin Linde Jr., 30 -- all employees of DynCorp, a Virginia-based security firm - Not the US Secret Service. A fourth American was wounded in the attack but not identified. If they were CIA or USSS, their attackers would be dead by now. Pays to work for a solid employer. They were heading to interview Palestinian candidates for Fulbright scholarships at the education ministry.

The Secret War Against the Jews : How Western Espionage Betrayed The Jewish People - by John Loftus and Mark Aarons. Published in 1997, it already needs an update. A new release would have to include the following chapters. 1. Israelis Who Spied for the CIA 2. Why Amit and Kielczynski are free while Pollard fries 3. Mega ? Conspiracy or Cryptography ? 4. What really happened to Ambassador Eliahu Ben-Elissar 5. USS Liberty - Why were pilot?s recordings held by until 2001 ?

Your reasons are specifically addressed there in a carefully laid out research (please see the footnotes at the bottom) which you can yourself verify.

Despite your semi Jewish "Rubes" name, the content of your posts seems to betray you as a paid member of the PLO propaganda machine. Where reason and logic unzip you, repeat the lies. Abbas learned how to do that in Moscow as did hundreds of other trained palestinean arab propagandists. Your BIG LIES fall on my deaf ears so cut the zevel. Let's see the Palestinean Arabs killed US secret service men in Gaza a few years back, but none of them are in jail yet. Explain why the Palestineans are completely unable to jail any terrorist long enough to close the back door? And why is it that the US shares no intel with the Palestinean Arabs. Could it be because you have not yet earned being our allies Rubes?

If treason is the crime of spying against your enemies, and israel and the us are not enemies but allies, it therefore follows that there is no treason. none. israel and the us regularly share information about Iran and other countries. that is what allies do and what the us and israel did and still do. so what is the big f...g deal? some guy in the FBI wanted to make a name for himself so instead of putting his life on the line to nab a terrorist, he went after a republican/ ooo. really sinister and inane.

... Amit sat in jail but was released early under US admin pressure in 1994. Angie Kielczynski (AKA Yossi Barak) openly stated that he spied for the US but lives freely in Israel. http://www.jonathanpollard.org/israelispies.htm

Link here and learn more http://www.jonathanpollard.org/1992/122592.htm

As long as the United States fails to view Israel as critical to its own national security cases like Pollard and Fraklin will continue to occur. Aiding a strategic ally who is currently serving as a buffer-zone in the war on terror, should not be a crime. It's unconscienable not to provide critical information and analysis to Israel on threat areas which could impact defence decisions particularly given the current geo-political environment.

What is amazing about this tale--which Mr. Rosner doesn't address--is that when Larry Franklin was trying to influence American policy on Iran in his capacity as a Pentagon employee, he believed his face-to-face access to Rumsfeld, Feith, et al wasn't enough. So what could he do? Look at this, from the Oct. 6, 2005 New York Times: "Mr. Franklin said in court that he believed the Aipac lobbyists had access and influence at the National Security Council, which coordinates policy issues for the president and was deeply involved in setting the administration's course on Iran. "[Franklin] said he hoped the lobbyists could help influence policy by passing on information that he knew was classified. 'I asked them to use their contacts to get this information backchannels to people at the N.S.C.,' he said." So Franklin, working directly for senior policymakers, believed he could better impact policy if it's heard via Aipac. This is not a conspiracy. It's just a sad commentary.

No, but he was an instrument of Israel who was carrying out Israel's policies with complete disregard for the interests of his own country.

First, since I am twelfth generation here in this country, I consider myself naturalized. Whether or not, though, everyone as soon as they become a citizen is American. We don't play that ethnic bullshit here. As to staying out of Jerusalem's business, that's easy . If Israel stops costing us a few billion dollars a year, I will be willing to give a great deal less advice. I still, however, would deplore its ill treatment of gentiles. As to the Saudis, I haven't got much use for them and their religious represson either. Since that is not a subject which comes up on this board, I don't air that distaste here. As to not being a friend to Israel, I wasn't a fan of South Africa either (for the same reasons).

Don?t even get me started with this; you know the answer to that. Stay out of Jerusalem?s business first, second remembers WE ARE THE AMERICANS, so unless you are a Native American no need to reply. Remember your tax system only accounts for small % revenue of money made in the U.S. Your country is living of credit, trillions of dollars credit. In actuality the depositors are people like Saudis. Do you Remember 9/11? Why aren?t you so critical about the Saudis? I hope you are not who I think you are. I was reading your reply to Kate of London. I don?t think that you are one of the friends of my nation, to put it mildly. Love Michael.

I find your post interesting, but a little confusing. Are you advocating that when faced with a choice between America's interests and those of Israel, American Jews should choose Israel's and shaft their country?

You omit the fact that the last time (that we know of) Israel got sensitive information it sold it to an enemy of the US.

How about the rest of the Americans who are paying Israel's bills with their tax money?

I agree!

OK, here's what was probably the most important reason. We The Librerty were reading the tactical traffic of the IDF at a time when the IDF was involved in things about which the US might not approve. If the IDF completed its campaign, it could then present the US with a fait accompli. The fear was that the US might yank Israel's leash and make it stop its campaign before it had gotten what it wanted.

I completely agree that we should have supplied Russia and helped it in its war with Germany. If we hadn't, we mght well have lost to Germany. At least our losses during WWII wouuld have been orders of magnitude higher. However, you are making my point. We didn't pupport Russia in its fight because we were fighting for freedom; we did so because it was in our national interest. Freedom wasn't even a secondary consideration.

Lawyers of course are paid to lie, but one hopes that diplomats might be more honest in their public comments. For Israel's ambassador to the US to claim that there is no connection between the AIPAC spy trial and Israel is patently absurd. Who could possibly believe such an obvious untruth? Is Israel not embarrassed by such a whopper? Apparently not, and this is more distressing than the lie itself.

when one looks at what happened here it makes you wonder

has it occurred to you that empires are morally wrong? that ruling over other people is not right, whether it be palestine or any other place. that america is not about ruling over ther people? (hint: see nonentanglement)

1930s, 1940s, Pollard, Latest Franklin AIPAC - just a continuation of the "real - Old" American role of putting those dirty Jews in their place. And the American Jews - still scared of not being "more American than the Americans" - showing their usual mile-wide yellow streak - running for cover rather than declaring yet another pogrom. Pathetic! Not in front of the goyim! Also shows you that the President and Congress don't really run America.

Even revolutionary war was financed by us, and by the way Columbus voyage to America was financed by the Jews. Remember that every empire on earth, from Egypt to Rome, Persia to Spain or Russia simply collapsed after the plight of the Jews. I say this time we can make the next superpower in our homeland, just like the bible prophecy. I am not pro a private club, I think that all the friends of our nation and good gentiles who treated my people with kindness are welcome. The others would have to rise above there personal jelosey.

rubes, that theory is addressed in the article as well and backed up by extensive research. I know the veterans of Liberty disagree - and I can understand the feelings of someone who has been attacked out of the blue, but the facts tell another tale. A better example to back up your case would be Lavon affair - that incident is nearly impossible to defend. In the case of Liberty - sorry mate, no serious historians would agree with you now that 1967 records have been declassified.

In the 1930's, someone concerned about the Iran of the day (Germany) leaked official defence documents to Churchill - then only an MP. Given the leaks were of US government knowledge about Iran - a threat of today. Should the person who leaked to Churchill have been imprisoned? Churchill made the contents known in the British parliament -declaring it to the entire world. This person only shared it with two people, who shared it with a US ally. One clearly also concerned about the threat of Iran to both. Some countries host bases of the USA "Echelon" satellite surveillance system - these pass on information about USA allies to the USA - they even spy on the UN. Are they spying for a foreign country - spying against the rest of the world?

The men of the USS Liberty would disagree wholeheartedly with you sir. It's a matter of fact. The USS Liberty was gathering intelligence during the Six Day War and Israel attacked her ally to blind them and keep them from intervening and bring about a cease fire or truce before Israel had achieved it's objectives of securing the West Bank, Gaza and the Golan. They were afraid that the Americans would try to make them return the captured territories before they could fully occupy them. It was a smart play. But it did happen. I read that bit you put up. It just does not jibe with the testimony of the crew of the USS Libertys' accounts. I believe them. Not some panel that has something to hide. Please remember Israel acted pre-emptively. They had plan and they executed that plan. The USS Liberty was part of the plan of attack. No ifs andd or buts.

sounds like a plan. you take Greenspan and we will return to nonentanglement. I didn't know Ben Franklin, alexander grahm bell, thomas edison, the wright brothers, the wright brothers, charles lindberg, niel armstrong, and the rest of our hereos were jewish,

Jews made America in to a SUPER POWER. All the energy and the talent, we spent in U.S. finally made America in to the sole super power on earth, but this was true for any country that gave us freedom to worship, create and do business. The day that the anti-semi in America will get the proper power and push us, the way that Spain or Russia did, this would become the beginning of the end for the Superpower, and poverty would replace prosperity. I say to the voices who are supporting ?No more aid to Israel?, give us our brother Alan Greenspen and you can keep you miserable aid. Stay out of Jerusalem?s business, and only bible respecting gentiles and Jews are welcomed.

Look, far better historian than myself analyzed what happened to Liberty. There have been numerous investigations by both Israel and US - every single one of them concluding that the attack was an honest mistake. The best article was written by Michael Oren (if you have not read his "Six Days of War" - it is highly recommended and taught even in Arab universities) - USS Liberty: Case Closed. Here's a link to that VERY well researched article: http://www.jewishvirtuallibrary.org/jsource/History/liberty1.html Feel free to criticize the CONTENTS (and not the fact that it is published in the Jewish virtual library). And here's the bottomline on Liberty - I have not yet heard ONE convincing reason for Israel to attack a ship of USA - its biggest ally and only hope in the international arena.

I hear you. And I know the only thing that technically seperates this from treason as defined in the constitution is whether we are at war with the country of receivership. But the fact remains that we are at war with a enemy that is not clearly defined. And the Israelis have attacked us before(USS Liberty)killing U.S. Servicemen using intelligence from the Mossad. That was thirty years ago and not much has really changed since then. So it is arguable that our only real ally is ourselves. And everyother country is potentially hostile.

Whether U.S. is an ally is not in question. What quality of ally does the Israel have in U.S.? This is a better question.

The crime of treason is not a "technicality" - it is the ONLY crime that is deemed important enough to be defined in US Constitution. Those who are guilty of treason are traitors and, conversely, those who are not guily of treason are not traitors. And by the way, those who call people not guilty of treason traitors, are guilty of "slander" or "libel" (depending on whether they make the accusation in print or not) - also serious crimes, although not defined in US Constitution...

You know what they say. With friends like that who needs enemies

Anyone that gives classified information about our foreign policy to an friendly nation or an enemy nation should be given life in prison (as i am oppose the death penalty)...if the US wanted Israel to know then it would have told it...the sensitivity of the information he gave is the main reason why he will never get out...he had a chance...to choose loyalty to Israel or America...he choose the former..simple as that...he should just relax in prison, read, exercise and ofcourse...fall in love. :)

Merely a technicality my friend. It's just not ok to betray your countrymen/women. And who they were betrayed to and the punishment under the law is a matter of statute. What AIPAC was going to use the information for is not known. They could have decided to sell it to the highest bidder. But they were not interested in U.S. security when they commited these crimes. Franklin is a traitor. AIPAC is an organzation now associated with treasonous activity. Whether every member of AIPAC or just a few committed these acts is imaterial. AIPAC as a lobbying organization is now an enemy of the United States of America.

Kate, then why are you not in Israel now? Why Enjoy the fruits of the gentile land of England? If America who gives billions to Israel every year is not a friend then who is? Who in the World suports Isreal? If Israel really wants to be a true nation then it should get off the US taxpayers welfare roll....also look at Israel's weapons...hmmm American I see....Israel was establish by gentiles, without them the early secular zionist could not have created it and they knew that....hence the heavy lobbing in the UK at the time...so Jews everywhere should give reapeted thanks to these "gentile nations"...who's your daddy?

"Whether Israel is an ally is not in question. What quality of ally does the U.S. have in Israel? This is a better question." In terms of intelligence communities - as good as it gets. There is no country on Earth that does not try to gather all the intelligence it can that might help it survive. In general - Israel and US are the best kind of allies - ones that share the strategic view of the region. There can be disagreement on tactics between the two countries, but they share the same philosophy and the long-term view. By the way, this is the reason AIPAC is so "powerful" - half the time it is preaching to the choir.

#28--maybe you would have liked to live in an American fascist state--they are a lot of fun for those declared racially or ideologically superior until the secret service comes to your door and drags away your girlfriend. But for those who did NOT want to live in an American Nazi state then it was OK to join with the Russians because at the time the Russians were not an immediate danger and Hitler WAS. So Russia destroyed the 6th Army at Stalingrad, the battle turned, the Alies were victorious and THEN we confronted Stalin. Is this so complex? No. It's easy right?

The whole world is a gentile world...deviding the world between jew and gentile is part of the problem...and stop sounding so self important, the catholic church does an aplethora of charitable work...in part throught the donations of its followers...and how much do Christians give to non-Christian causes? A lot and yet to feel self pity and unappreciative would be silly...this idea that Jews have to struggle SSSOOO SSOOO much is ridiculous...we're unappreciated, we were oppressed, we were exiled..please take a look at the world, at the plith of hte Palestinians, or the native americans....all in all as I wrote...part of the problem is the "Jewish Ghetto" Thinking which divides the world between Jew (in the Ghetto) and Gentile (everything and everyone else outside the ghetto walls)...

Dear rubes--try to understand there was no treason. Israel is an ally. It did not ask Franklin to talk about Iran. The government has agreed to accept Franklin's story that HE brought up the subject with Israeli officials and AIPAC because HE thought THEY could help HIM. He said that the Israeli officials gave him MORE valuable information than HE gave THEM. Nobody sold any information to Iran. They ALL were worried ABOUT Iran. Some of the information was MADE UP by the FBI in a sting operation. But then you're continuing reference to the "death penalty" for half the executive branch makes me think that you are not entirely serious?

The two Israeli spies who worked for AIPAC will be next.

Jane, I don't know that AIPAC ever benefits from playing big-shot insiders like this. For that matter these guys WERE AIPAC as much as anybody else--they got sloppy, they were careless, and then they got played by the FBI and were cut loose.

Point well made by yourself. But Franklin broke the golden rule........He got caught. It's a dangerous game and people in that business know the risks. The risk is that you can get killed or executed with or without a trial or due process. Whether Israel is an ally is not in question. What quality of ally does the U.S. have in Israel? This is a better question.

#1--it isn't treason BECAUSE Israel is an ally and America is not at war with Israel--it isn't even espionage since Israel did not direct him in his activities. It is exactly what he was charged with--and one exchange of information was a sting, set up by the FBI that provided the documents for him and maybe made them up. This is no more a leak or espionage or treason than leaks of secret and classified and top tip top hush-hush leaks that occur ever day of the week. The NSA program for example.

How was Stalin any less an inhuman tyrant than Hitler, or Chiang less villainous than Mussolini? If we were fighting for freedom, why did we choose those guys as our allies? Instead of snotty answers, try rebuttals.

Allow me to repeat what I said: we have no evidence that the Vatican betrayed intellligence about the US to the Germans. If you have such information, give it. Otherwise, stop hypothesizing with your "It would be naive".

Dealing with the points you raised in order: 1) As far as I know, nobody denies that Israel gave the USSR some of the code word information Pollard sold it. 2) Nations fight wars because of their national interests. The wellbeing of European Jews was not a matter of national interest to the US, no more than the wellbeing of the millions of Ukrainians Stalin killed was. 3)No nation is a friend of another nation; it acts in its national interest, cooperating with other nations (or opposing them) as its national interests dictate. 4) Whatever Israel did in Iraq was done strictly in its own national interest (as attacking the LIberty was).

this is, as we all know, just the beginning. are best and most honest lawyer patrick "irish bulldog" fitzigerald is investigating Libby, conrad black, and the rest. peace to all

I would like you to be the first citizen of EMPIRE of YEHUDA. People like you make me proud to live on this planet.

"The short answer to your post is that in fact there WAS no difference [between the Nazis and the Allies." That explains everything I'll ever need to know about you. Good night.

"There is no evidence (at least as far as I have heard) that the Vatican divulged any of our information to the Germans" We know that the Vatican openly collaborated with the Nazis both before and after the war on a massive scale. Given everything we know about how the church operates, it would be naive to believe that the pope's representatives were not betraying the U.S. (Hell, prior to America's very late entry into the war, it seems as if most of America's large corporations were collaborating with the Nazis.)

is illegal, wrong, and is a fact of life. And I assure you, US uses all means (including employment of any Israelis it can recruit) to spy on Israel. Look guys, I'm not making excuses for Larry Franklin. He passed on information to a foreign country (even if it is an ally of US) which is illegal and he is justly punished for it. That's the rules of the game and I do not question them. The harshness of the sentence is a matter of debate for another time. My point is - those of you striking a righteous pose and beating yourself in the chest are either naive or hypocrtical. Intelligence community is not a highly ethical place. CIA and Mossad work together, share information, and spy on each other. Sometimes they even stab each other in the back withholding bits of intelligence that might be important for the other. And they still remain allies. That is the most important thing to understand - nothing will change - Mossad and US are still allies.

"We KNOW Israel sold very sensitive US intelligence data to the USSR." We do? Do tell. We also know that a then virulently anti-Semitic America turned its back on the Jews of Europe during World War II when it fought a war in spite of the Jews and not because of them. The reality is that Israel would not have to spy on the US, if the latter nation were a true friend, which it is not. As Ariel Sharon said recently, the Holocaust taught us that we can rely on no gentile and for my part, the U.S. is no different in this. Withholding vital information from a vunerable ally is not the way real friends behave. On the other hand, it is purely because of Israel that Saddam is not currently in possession of nuclear weapons and Americans are not spending their nights in bomb shelters. Flying in the face of terrible criticism from the Reagan White House, Israel took out that Iraqi nuclear reactor and in doing so, essentially saved the free world. You should give thanks daily for that.

www writes: "this damages the jewish population within the US and it perpetuates the myth that jews are disloyal and only loyal to Israel and not america." There will always be those who will blame all Jews for the actions of a few (which is actually the very essence of anti-Semitism). The reality is that Jews have for the very greatest part been ultra-loyal to the U.S. and have provided untold prosperity for that nation (as one example, of all large gifts given to charity in any given year, over 40% are made by Jews, and virtually none of that is made over to Jewish or Israeli charities). That it has largely been unappreciated is one of the facts of life that Jews always have to accept when they live in amy gentile nation.

The short answer to your post is that in fact there WAS no difference. I grew up being fed propaganda about how we fought for freedom, democracy, and all those good things. I was told that those on our side were good guys. On reflection, I don't see much difference between our allies, Stalin and Chiang, and our enemies, HItler and Mussolini. If we were fighting for freedom, why were we allied with Stalin?

PUNISHMENT FOR ANTI-ISRAELI PROPAGANDA Launching a vicious propaganda campaign against the friends of Israel and the friends of the friends of Israel, must be punishable by low. This kind of campaign must be made illegal by the United Nations, and supported in the counsel. No nations or individuals will be above the low. This same people who are involve in anti-Israeli and anti-Semitic propaganda, are the future honchos of the Iranian despot.

There is no evidence (at least as far as I have heard) that the Vatican divulged any of our information to the Germans. We KNOW Israel sold very sensitive US intelligence data to the USSR.

Are you kidding me? The Vatican emmissaries should only be loyal to the Vatican....just like Israeli emmissaries...but this is AIPAC it is suppose to be an american organization that should be loyal to america first..if it wants to be an israeli organization then it should state so...this damages the jewish population within the US and it perpetuates the myth that jews are disloyal and only loyal to Israel and not america.

Wrong - US security was seriously harmed. Once you let anyone else know what our intelligence sources have found, you tell others what we know and how we got it. The least dangerous result would be that whoever it is changes their method of transmission (if it was a matter of communnications intelligence). If it was a matter of human intelligence, our agents are killed.

Patobac writes: "Easy answer - there should be no penalty. Sweden was a neutral nation, and neutrals can do business with both sides" In theory, yes. But you write as if there were no moral difference between the Allies who were fighting for freedom and the Axis who were trying to kill it. In keeping the Nazi war machine humming, Sweden was knowingly helping to murder millions of innocent people, and thus was little different from Nazi Germany itself. No wonder Churchill despised the so-called "neutrals" so much. That many of Sweden's politicians would, after the war, actively protect people they knew had murdered hundreds of thousands of Jews makes them accessories to genocide. Then again, for Jews to expect any kind of real justice from a European nation is obviously a non-starter.

I feel pretty much the same about the Vatican's emissaries in the United States. Loyal only to the pope, they are a grave danger to national security. God alone knows what they must have got up to during World War II when virtually the entire Vatican establishment sided with the Nazis.

"Franklin believed the National Security Council was insufficiently concerned with the threat posed by an unspecified Middle Eastern nation." In light of recent events surrounding the Iranian nuclear program, Franklin was damn right, and NSA - dead wrong. Now, the guy broke the law, and must be punished, but putting him behind for 12.5 years is beyond the pale.

That would be nice. I hope it happens like that. AIPAC is out of control and it's obvious. We need lobby reform like we need air in the United States. If we don't get it, the dream of liberty and justice for all will be lost.

Yes, that's right. The mass murderer of Black September and organizer of the Munich massacre Salameh served as a secret contact between the PLO and the CIA from 1970 until his death, guaranteeing American's safety in exchange for financial and political support. And what do you think Salameh did with the tidy sum the Americans paid him for not killing their diplomats, built theme parks in Beirut?

The article: "In sentencing Franklin, U.S. District Judge T.S. Ellis III said the facts of the case led him to believe that Franklin was motivated primarily by a desire to help the United States, not harm it." You really do have an unhealthy fixation with AIPAC and Franklin. No one here was trying to harm US security here. The 'information' passed on pertained the potential murder of Israelis by Iranian agents in Kurdistan. You should be asking the question why he got 12 years if he was not seeking to harm national security. Your extremism and hatred surpasses Robespierre...you are on par with Jean-Paul Marat, launching a vicious propaganda campaign against the friends of Israel and the friends of the friends of Israel. The term you used 'persona non grata' is one that you would do well to ponder about, and your usual reply of 'they're launching personal attacks against me" just ain't gonna cut it no more.

Who knows what AIPAC did with the information. Maybe they sold it...perhaps to an enemy. The United States is at war. And all acts of treason at a time of war should have the death penalty considered. If Karl Rove leaked Valerie Plame then he should surely go to the gas chamber. I voted for his boss and if it was the direction of the President or Vice President then they should share the death penalty with whoever was agent to said act of treason. And I don't care if the CIA spies on Israel. It's not the same thing. This is an American betraying other Americans. Bottomline. If an Israeli was selling secrets to Iran. He/She should also face the maximum penalty allowed by law. It's simple.

oh what a tangled web. Isreal continues to ruin its ruin its reputation. Do the right thing instead of spying. stay out of other countries bus., give the palistinians east jerasalem and the westbank and and become a light to others.

Whether or not we spy on Israel, the fact remains that it is illegal (and wrong) for American citizens to spy on us for a foreign power.

Easy answer - there should be no penalty. Sweden was a neutral nation, and neutrals can do business with both sides.

He is an American spy!

JAIL Bush, JAIL Condoleezza. It?s about time some one was punished for all the manipulation on behaved of this US administration going on in Israel. From the endorsements for the next PM, to the outright spy business in Israel it?s self. Israel will never stop this kind of disgusting behavior by its boss in Washington till it actually jails on of this so called peace makers who are a direct danger to Israel security. One of them is JOHANES Franzen from Sweden, who is passionately anti-Israeli.

They have been drunk on their own power and influence for too long and it is time, now especially with the Abramoff scandal and all the pay for legislation on the part of these Republicans, to declare AIPAC as personal non grata and put Franklin, Rosen and Weissman with Pollard.

No problem he and his family will be on someone payroll for the next 12 years. The issue is what happend to the agents of AIPAC. Are they so hot that no one in the Justice Department will touch them? It seems this is the case.

In Holland one has to kill at least 10 people to get a 10 year prison sentence. In the US a judge can state he believes someone was motivated primarily by a desire to help the United States, not harm it, then still sentence him to more then 12 years. Insane! More than 1% of the population in prison is SICK. Even Saddam Hussein imprisoned and killed less than 1%..... p.s. free Pollard! p.s. II: lock Bush up, solves more problems!

Not unexpected, but he got off very easy. No one can say this guy should have been entrusted with US secrets. The AIPAC guys will also get off with no or light sentences. In their arrogance, they all thought they were above the law.

Franklin gets 12 years. But it was Rosen who enticed him into the espionage. No way Rosen escapes going to jail. More important, no way AIPAC escapes this. Within 24 months, AIPAC will not exist. It will be replaced by a consortium of other major Jewish organizations which will create a law-abiding lobbying arm.

An undercover CIA operative had their identity leaked to the press from inside the White House. Id like to see Karl Rove ever get charged with treason. At most he would get some penalty for 'accidentally taking home documents for review'

From the US Constitution: "Treason against the United States, shall consist only in levying War against them, or in adhering to their Enemies, giving them Aid and Comfort." And now, to test the naivete of the indignant patriots. How many of you truly believe that US does not spy on Israel?

What do you think the penalty should have been for all those Swedish politicans and businessmen who collaborated with Nazi Germany? What should the penalty be do you think for all those Swedish politicians who have protected some of the very worst Nazi war criminals (mainly from the Baltic nations) since the end of World War II until the present day?

What gets me is how AIPAC benefitted from the information gleaned from Franklin by it's 2 lobbyists, but then completely dissed the lobbyists (Rosen & Weissman) by disassociateing w/them & subsequently firing them, when the sh-t hit the fan. Talk about kissing up to the government! Aipac exploited these loyal employees and then dropped them like hot potatoes...

But there's a price for getting the Big Guys and Franklin have co-operated.

Are you kidding me? This guy is a traitor. He deserves to be executed as provided in law for act of treason. I can't believe he gets to live. Israel may be an ally.....but treason is treason. And treason in a time of war should warrant the death penalty.