Does moving to the U.S. make an Israeli more 'Israeli'?

to the greatest degree possible. NOT for the purpose of distinguishing themselves from others, but for the richness of their traditions and heritage...and for its continuity. in this case, NOT as israelis, but as american jews with a long and colorful history of triumph and tragedy. an ancient people who have spanned the ages with traditions and customs largely intact. secular or not, the importance of carrying their heritage onward to each new generation should NEVER be lost upon the children. culture and language should NEVER fade away; not for any group of people anywhere. every child should be brought up to be proud of their culture and heritage; not to separate themselves from other americans, but to enhance the beauty, and strengthen the integration and cohesiveness, of our multicultural society. we, the [american]people...

to the greatest degree possible. NOT for the purpose of distinguishing themselves from others, but for the richness of their traditions and heritage...and for its continuity. in this case, NOT as israelis, but as american jews with a long and colorful history of triumph and tragedy. an ancient people who have spanned the ages with traditions and customs largely intact. secular or not, the importance of carrying their heritage onward to each new generation should NEVER be lost upon the children. culture and language should NEVER fade away; not for any group of people anywhere. every child should be brought up to be proud of their culture and heritage; not to separate themselves from other americans, but to enhance the beauty, and strengthen the integration and cohesiveness, of our multicultural society. we, the [american]people...

Before 1948 were they more Jewish? Most of them did not want to go to Palestine and become cannon fodder for Weizmann, Ben Gurion, etc. After the war they mostly wanted to go back to their country of birth, Europe or US and Canada. They thought zionism was an aberration which was making the Jews abandon Jewish traditional values and become like the nazis they were running away from. By becoming real Jews by leaving Israel, they indicate they area not willing to be brain washed by zionist mythology any longer.

Secular Israelis who leave Israel should be prepared to have their children and grandchildren marry non-Jews. I have seen this happen many, many times and in most cases, but not all, it does bother the parents. If they had stayed in Israel chances of this happening are very slim.

number 19 First, please do learn to spell it is Puerto Rican and not "Portorican" which by the way is a remnant of a deroggatory spelling used by American colonists in the early 20th century. Secondly, Puerto Ricans, since the passage of the Jones Commercial Act in 1917 are born citizens of the United States. They are not immigrants, that is immediately upon arriving on the mainland they may run for any political office including President of the United States. True ethnic Puerto Ricans particularly dark skinned ones have had difficulties integrating into American society however their integration process is unique within American history and cannot be compared to any other ethnic or national group.

I don't see that the Israeli immigrant experience is different from any other immigrant experience in the United States. What makes the difference is the socio-economic background and educational level of the immigrant in question. Immigrant parents who want their children to remain connected to the "Old Country" whether that is Sicily, Greece, Ireland or Israel will find a way to assist their children in keeping that connection. Those immigrant parents who wish to sever their relationship with the old country will raise children who within one generation are purely American (whatever that is).

Israelis who go to the States are in a quandry for the first time about what it means to be a Jew. Let's face it, we are different. Most Israeli parents send their children to Jewish schools because the public schools are full of crime, teen pregnancy, drugs, etc. At the Jewish schools their children learn about Jewish customs and a Torah way of life, usually becoming more observant and influencing the parents. Then the parents send their children to yeshiva or seminary in Israel like the native born Americans do. We work in a yeshiva and girls seminary and many of these students have Israeli parents. Let's face it. When among the non Jews, Israelis feel more Jewish and go in the Torah direction.

Jewish immigration and settlement in western countries was and still easy,even with the demise of URSS. I can imagine that really very large percentage of Israeli have 2/3 nationalities. Those who do not are mainly the poor or deceived ones specially coming from Esatern Africa, Arab (Yemen) countrioes and Russia. Those smart ones would be better off if the so far checked/defeated Arab countries or resistance groups surprise Israel by discovering unity and common senses. The ultimate and quasi-equitable solution is the South Africa precedent: one-vote, one-state in Palestine. Then, many of now zealots Israelis would use their bi/tri status.

Your: "Children of immigrants almost always have a `frayed` experience due to their parents differences with their own new society, which they must cope with for the rest of their lives." is WRONG! WRONG, WRONG! Maybe it applies to some Muslims, Haredis, Portoricans. But not to Jewish emigrants from all over Europe. Except, of course, those who can't, or won't integrate...I can't recall, in some tens of years, meeting anyone as you describe - In New York... The great majority are as Americans as can be.

I have a simple solution to check if an ex-Israeli is an Israeli. Go to a tennis game where an Israeli let's say Shachar Peer is playing against an American Girl. You will soon find out your dilemma. I am a "Yored" I live in the USA fifty years. When I hear bad news from Israel, a tremor goes through my heart. I was born in Czechoslovakia. If I hear bad news from there, to be honest, it leaves me cold. I was a kibbutznik I drove a truck I stayed a kibbutznick driving a Buick.

It's been my experience with the Israelis that I know who moved to America with their parents when they were children that they feel guilty about having left Israel. Almost all express a desire to go back, but it's difficult because life is easier in America. If Israelis want to emigrate to the U.S., that's their right, but they should seriously consider the psychological impact on their children first.

Its so easy to spot North Americans in Israel they bring America wherever they go but I guess that's what immigrants do.

every immigrant still wants their children to feel "irish/german/italian/polish/mexican/israeli", etc. Israeli immigrant parents don't sound too much different from my Irish grandparents. And I, a 2nd generation Irish-American, have assimilated completely while still aware of my Irish roots.

Children born in America are Americans and nothing else and should be treated as such. If you want your children to be Israeli stay in Israel. You can practice your religion freely in America, but it seems in Israel you cannot. Says a lot for the the country doesn't it? When children are born in any country they are the and should always put the citizenship of said country first and foremost. To do otherwise is a betrayal of your country of birth.

I agree, live in America be American; but the yearning to have Israeli identification is the result in living a very materialistic, effortless existence which is now includes a new econonmic and social hardships before not asscociated living in America and Canada, I moved five kids to israel who enormosly enjoy living in there

While I agree with you that the US is more materialistic than Israel (though maybe not for long), how arrogant you sound! Why can't a secular person care about his or her identity? I am a secular immigrant from the US, in Israel 32 years, raising a family, working in a job that is giving and idealistic (nursing) and living according to specific ideals. If anything, belief in a higher being - or a rabbi, an iman or a priest - to run things for you, is the ultimate escape from forming one's own identity.

You seem to give WAY too much leway for a child to make their own way: parents set the example. Children of immigrants almost always have a 'frayed' experience due to their parents differences with their own new society, which they must cope with for the rest of their lives. Life is wrought with challenges: to simplify such a enormous circumstance is not very rational...there is a much bigger picture. A Jew is a Jew: they have their ROOTS in Israel, even if their family hasn't lived there in 2,000 years: that will never change. You don't seem to be in touch with yourself, or the realities we must deal with intelligently. So gruff!

It's very difficult to raise your children Israeli and American. Not so difficult to raise them Jewish and American, and help them make a connection with Israel. Many Israeli immigrants to the US end up connecting with Judaism as a religion. In Israel they can't do this because they identify religion with Israeli Haredim, whereas here they can explore other approaches that can work for them.

Its the same with all human beings: the grass is always greener on the other side. Israelis moving to the US are looking for a higher standard of living, not a better quality of life. The quality of life in the US has degraded to the point that the common American is a slave to the infrastructure, the class struggle, the quest for money: all materialistic based things. If one is an atheist, completely secular and doesn't care about their identity, by all means, move to the US. As for me, with 7 children and having experienced it 'all' in the US, I have chosen to make Aliyah. The QUALITY of life: how to live decently, is far better in Israel. 'Nuff said about the rat-race.

The Law of Return has ensured Israel will rival WWII Poland before the century is out.

If you have, say, a long term job in the US but intend to return to Israel, by all means protect your Israeli identity and that of your children. But you should not come to live here permanently as foreigners. We want all our citizens and residents to be loyal to America above all else. If you can't do that, stay home.

I agree with you except on one important point. If you become a US citizen, then you would be expected (not yet compelled) to join the US armed forces, if you are to join any. Suppose Israel's and the US's military are at odds on such and such issue? (It seems that the two nations are growing apart, and I applaud that). Then, what? I don't think that there are many US citizens with dual citizenship (other than Israelis) who go to join the armed forces of the countries of their birth. If Israelis want the advantages and the safety of the US, (they are welcome) then they should give up their ties to the "state of Israel." Swearing allegiance means just that, and one can't do that to two different countries at the same time. Period. Finally, the urge to spy on the US may become, for some who continue strong ties to Israel, overwhelming.

"Because you don't have the rules of the holidays or traditions being explained in school, suddenly parents have to figure out how to explain the traditions themselves so that their kids can distinguish themselves from the others," said Sommer. The secular Israeli comes here to forget that he is a Jew . In Israel he is reminded of it beyond his control .

Both of your comments reflect my sentiments. Could not have said it any better.

Maybe they should just be American?

I can not imagine how American jews left this great Nation and live in poor desert of stones and sand! in the name of fanatism and "fairy tales". Only a crazy and fanatic will do this adventure

Ya' know the dream of the Israeli Yevseks aka ultra-Secularist sector in the State, that the Israel become a "normal" country. Well, it seems that when they leave the country for the States they "leave" it behind. It becomes what every other immigrant from someplace else calls it--"the old country". That appelation might not fit the Zionist ideology, but these Israelis are mostly post-Zionist, so it don't make much of a difference for them. Too bad for Israel, too bad for them.

Most of Olmert's children emigrated. The overwhelming majority of emigrants from Israel are secular. Why should they stay? They don't believe in the right of the Jewish people to the Land of Israel over that of the Palestinians. And we all know that North Tel Aviv, like many other areas within the "Green Line" is a "settlement" constructed over the ruins of an Arab village (Sheikh Munis). A secular Israeli can satisfy his material desires in America, and it's safer for him there than in many parts of Israel. So Herzl's Zionist dream is no longer relevant. Face it: there is a reason why almost all who make aliyah are religious and those who make yerida are secular (the Meretz type, not those who consider themselves traditional, "mesorati").

It is a matter of choise. In the end you have to make a choise if you want it or not. Why to go to the US if you want to be an Israeli ? Why to go to the US if "you want to distinguish yourselve from the others" (Americans) ? If you want to be an Israeli; stay in Israel. If you want to be an US citizen go to the US and intergrate. You just can not take a pick from here and and pick from there; you have to make a choise.

If you want to raise your kids as Israelis, Maybe it would be better not have stayed In Israel ....Israelis in America my technically be Israelis, but in reality are really Yordim..you can t have your cake and eat it too !

"Is it good for them, or just for us, to hone in the idea that they are Israeli?" wonders one parent. "If we're not returning to Israel, then what good does it do?" Jewish children living in America, should never be forced into schizophrenia! They are Americans! Particularly so if the parents have no intention to return to Israel. You may talk Hebrew to them if you wish. You may visit Israel together with them. Give them a book by Amos Oz, etc. But their belonging is to America. Never confuse roots! They are free people and when they grow up they can make their own choices. Some boys may even do their service in the IDF if they want (as one did from my own family). Some may consider aliah as one of my daughters considered but finally didn't. But all this is/was their free choice!

If you emigrate permanently you should be prepared to integrate into the country's host population. Not assimilate, you can still keep & practise your cultural & religious & linguïstic traditions from Israël at home. if that's not enough for you or your children you should consider returning. Jews generally make good immigrants, that's why they're present & successful in so many countries.