Doctor: 90% of war casualties at Gaza hospital were civilians
Norwegian physician was present at Shifa during IDF op; says saw no proof Hamas used hospital as HQ.
By Cnaan Liphshiz Tags: Hamas Gaza Israel news IDFNinety percent of casualties brought to Gaza's main hospital during Israel's winter offensive against Hamas were civilians, according to a new book by one of Norway's most famous and controversial physicians, Dr. Mads Gilbert.
The book, scheduled to be published this month under the title "I in Gaza," recounts Gilbert's experiences as a volunteer at Shifa Hospital in Gaza City and focuses on individual stories by patients and medical staff.
The 318-page account surveys events "which in themselves call people to politically mobilize," said Gilbert, who is also known for his vocal criticism of Israel, in a phone interview with Haaretz last week.
Gilbert's pro-Israel critics downplay the book's potential impact, citing his "political motivation" and "unreliability," and pointing out his communist affiliations and statements after the September 11, 2001, attacks apparently in support of terrorism against the United States.
"Among the patients killed and injured at Shifa Hospital, Gaza's largest medical facility, 80 to 90 percent we saw were civilians," said Gilbert, a frequent visitor to Gaza and the West Bank. He arrived at Shifa last winter with his colleague, Dr. Erik Fosse, on the fourth day of fighting, December 31, through the Rafah border crossing.
Asked how he was able to tell combatants apart from civilians, Gilbert - who does not speak Arabic - said: "We are not naive, we asked the patients who could talk [through a translator] where they had been at the time of the injury and what they were doing. We know a fighter can also look like a civilian. I've been working there for past 20 years."
Gilbert and Fosse are both members of the Norwegian Aid Committee (NORWAC), which describes itself as "a humanitarian organization that works mainly with health care issues," and which focuses on aid to Palestinians.
"We didn't have the opportunity to do scientific assessment of the overall number of people killed and injured but overall assessments shows that 1,400 people died in Gaza, 80 to 90 percent of them civilians, more than 300 children were killed and more than 1,600 injured " Gilbert, 62, said.
But the Israel Defence Forces says that about 1,100 Palestinians were killed during the offensive, the vast majority of whom were militants.
According to Gilbert, throughout his 10-day stay in January, he hardly left the hospital, which was not bombed.
"Did the Israeli army bomb Hamas when it bombed UN shelters for children?" Gilbert demanded in response to a question about his feelings toward Hamas' attacks against Israeli civilians.
Though very critical of Israel - which he accuses of a "moral disaster" - Gilbert appears to have a more tolerant view of Hamas. "We do no support Hamas or Fatah, but we have been working with the organization that the Palestinians chose for leaders," he said when asked about the level of his cooperation with Hamas.
"If I needed to treat wounded people in Israel I would not refuse because of [Foreign Minister] Avigdor Lieberman," he added.
According to the IDF, Hamas' leader in Gaza, Ismail Haniyeh, operated a command center inside Shifa Hospital throughout the three-week offensive. But Gilbert says he saw no indication of this. "With our eyes we saw nothing to substantiate the claim, but we are not journalists or investigators," he told Haaretz.
Professor Gerald Steinberg, founder of the Jerusalem-based organization NGO Monitor for review of non-governmental bodies, says Gilbert's account is "untrustworthy" because of his "one-sided and politically-motivated view."
"By justifying terror, supporting Hamas and fueling the conflict, NORWAC and Mads Gilbert have violated the Hippocratic Oath - 'first, do not harm,'" Steinbeg says.
Israeli government spokesperson Mark Regev, meanwhile, says Gilbert has a history of "unreliable and political" reports to foreign media.
Although he says the book is a "factual account," Gilbert concedes that he is committed to politically supporting the Palestinians. "We are not neutral. We chose medical work in Gaza, not Sderot," he said. The first "medical mission in support of the Palestinians" that Gilbert went on was in 1981 to Beirut, around the time of the first Lebanon War.
Gilbert, a former activist in Norway's Red Party, is prepared to call Hamas a terrorist entity "only if this applies to Israel as well," as "both obtain political and military goals by creating terror in civilians."
"We have had enough yellow stars and the label of "terrorist" being applied indiscriminately to justify killing," added the Norwegian physician, who is quoted by his local media as having compared Gaza to the Warsaw Ghetto.
But when asked about the comparison, Gilbert nonetheless said he does not view Israel's actions as comparable to the Nazi genocides. "What Israel is doing is terrible enough without that comparison," he argued.
In 2001, Gilbert told a Norwegian paper that "under certain conditions" he "might understand 9/11." During the interview with Haaretz, he said that he made the statement "just to start the discussion" but has since retracted the statement. "I should never have said it. I don't support any attack on any civilians," he clarified.
However, in the 2001 interview with the Norwegian paper Dagbladet, Gilbert was asked whether he realized that his support for terrorist attacks on U.S. civilians would generate angry reactions. "Yes, this can only be expected. The white world cannot comprehend that such an act [9/11] can be viewed from another perspective," he is quoted as saying.
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It's obvious that neither of you had the wits to listen to and understand the tape MEMRI copied it from an Al Aqsa TV broadcast It was Fahti Hammad, bragging to Al Aqsa, who made all those statements You can also see it on youtube Beikirch, you should have stayed quiet a lot longer than you have, you only made yourself look foolish--If you disagree with Fahti & Hamas, you have my permission to tell them so Your gripe should be with them, not with me Eli- Next time don't separate the lukshen from the fish, don't take things out of context before you understand what has been said
The Hamas video was from Al Aqsa TV, you can see it on youtube, several sources carried it I didn't originate the words, Fahti Hammad did all the talking Really a pity that neither of you had the wits to listen to the tape or read the text Beikirch you were silent for quite a while, you should have stayed that way, you sure made yourself look foolish
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=g0wJXf2nt4Y Youtube had it too, copied from Al Aqsa TV Just to get things straight, I relayed what I obtained from reliable sources MEMRI for Jews Al Aqsa for the other guys Beikirch I hadn't heard from you for quite a well, you really should have kept quiet
"Israeli government spokesperson Mark Regev, meanwhile, says Gilbert has a history of "unreliable and political" reports to foreign media." Mark Regev How ironic Mark Regev shifts the blame to the media to discredit Dr. Gilbert yet he is the lead man in Israel passing on unreliable and political reports to the media and the other irony there is they have all be documented by the media itself. What a double whammy! John
"http://www.memritv.org/newsletter/clip1710.htm" Save if for your Zionist friends. They're the only ones who read the crap MEMRI puts out. I suppose one shouldn't expect much from an organization founded by a former IDF colonel.
... Enemy, friend or neutral. the hagadah teaches us this. If we are not to take any pleasure and we Are to feel guilty for what happened to the Egyptians who enslaved us for 200 years surely we can find compassion here. I am not disagreeing with you but surely we have more polite ways of stating this. Perhaps, it's because I am not where you are and cannot understand the facts of your life and environment, fears like they exist in Israel, and for good real cause, are not really present in Canada. Either we should never dehumanize the enemy nor lose our compassion for humanity less we should wish to turn to the pact of wolves that fight us
Hamas intentionally put their civilians on the front lines http://www.memritv.org/newsletter/clip1710.htm
This bool will probably sell well becaude the anti israel people will buy it to supoport their claims and the Pro Israel people to refute it. This article could UAE some more information as as it stands it doesn't provethat all the casualties were from IDF many could be from human shields or militants in civilians clothing but one line to catch my eye was his reference to a UN school was there two that were hit? As I remeber the outcry whenthe media said a UN school had been hit by 3 artillery shells. The globe and mail, a prominent Canadian paper published an article by a cotrespondant on the ground in Gaza who drew a picture of the damage andstated that the uN school wasn't hit. The shells landed outside and bodies of males were found outside not children. I hav his drawing on my pc email for it alwayslearning@live.ca
Hamas bragged about intentionally using their civilians as human shields, claimed they were looking forward to dying for their cause http://www.memritv.org/newsletter/clip1710.htm
To all the posters who question his credibility on the basis of his affiliations, two questions: !. Does the fact that he sympathizes with he Palestinian cause completely preclude the possibility that he is telling the truth? 2. If the credibility of one who supports the Palestinian cause is automatically non-existent, shouldn't we equally dismiss the credibility of one who supports Israel?
He admits that he is neither a journalist nor investigator and relied on a translator to get his information. According to him, between 1220-1340 of the deaths were civilians. His book must be as accurate as the Egyptian news broadcasts at the start of the Six-day War. It must go in the Fiction section of the library.
"we have no other choice. We all should listen to the statements from the Israeli military who said that most of the victims were militants. After all, when Israel clears Israel of wrongdoing, it is clearly not propaganda." No, you should listen to Israel because it is concious of being held under a microscope like no other country on Earth, including such human rights disasters as Sudan(Darfur), China(Tibet, Xinjiang), Cuba(overtly no press freedom), Congo(UN "peacekeepers" accused of sexual and other abuses of civilians, with over 5 million dead), and Saudi Arabia((pretty much no freedom of anything), etc. etc., all of which disasters fester because self-important and self-righteous "human rights advocates" focus on "all Israel, all the time"(slight exaggeration). Hypocrites.
"Dr. Gilbert is still a member of the party simply known as "Red", a revolutionary socialist party." There being so much to rebel against in Norway.
"Therefore, we have no alternative but to rely on the accounts of those who DID observe what the IDF was doing." To the contrary, you have no reason in logic to assume that a notoriously biased observer was telling the truth, even if he was permitted(by the "demonic" Israelis)to be on the scene.
'With all our might, don`t you think that if we did target civilians, as you claim, we did a miserable job. We should have killed 100 times more civlians we that were true. Compared to the number of civilians Iran has murdered, Russia has murdered, NATO has murdered, the allies in WWII, we have truly failed...' Don't fret. I'm sure that if it weren't for the fact that you have an audience, the toll would be far, far greater than it is. You kill all you can. No one (well, no one sane) faults you on that score. We all have a pretty good idea of what you would LIKE to do.
No good doctor treating the acutely injured in the theatre of war, would ask them about their political, civilian or military affiliation unless that doctor chooses to discriminate between his patients. If Dr. Gilbert had the time to discuss his acutely ill patients' civilian or military affiliation, then I would presume that he is either an incompetent physician for which there is no evidence or more likely, he never discussed this matter with his injured patient. he would not have the time. His statement that 90% of his patients were civilians is therefore suspect as to its' accuracy. I am not a military doctor but I have treated civilian and prisoner patients for 31 years. I have never asked the prisoners what crime they committed. I am required by my profession's ethics to treat all the sick, not only those with whom I agree politically or whose religious background I favour or what crime they may or may not have committed.
we all know that Gilbert is a radical communist politician hiding behind a medical degree. He is corrupt, and is a kind of Mengele whose Hypocratic Oath means nothing-just a hate filled extreme agenda.
Dr Mads Gilbert has a history of unreliable reporting to the media is all there is to take from this story. Dr Mads Gilbert has a political agenda. If Dr Mads Gilbert really cared about the Palestinians he would be expousing how the Palestinian leadership brought this upon the Palestinian people. He does the Palestinians people a diservice for trying to cover for the Palestinian leaderships (Hamas) crimes. Dr Mads Gilbert is just a usefull idiot for the terrorist organization Hamas. Nobody should ever consider taking him seriously.
They would NEVER have a ally like Israel, they are no different to Syria or China. They're government pretends to be the "only" democracy in the middle-east, however you can't be a democracy when you occupy people based on ethnicity. I'm not surprised 90% of the casualties were non-combantants, its the same thing in Afghanistan or Iraq. But hey, Israel is just a client state of America, and when America falls, so will the political and military power Israel possesses be reduced. And only at that time will there be a chance for a just and fair peace
Israel claimed that hamas leaders , all of them r in shia hospital but they were refuted when Mr. saed Siam was assassinated in Al Nasir area.i live in gaza and during the day we didnt see any hamas men , so its really true , israel tarageted every thing and their bank of information was emptied the third day , they killed even their spies as they mentioned.
Of course you are right. But even more than that, they don't wear uniforms (against the Geneva rules) operate from schools and abuse ambulances (also against Geneva) and regularly claim that they are all '"soldiers of Allah" in the fight against the infidel. On the other hand there's no mistaking an Israeli in uniform, so the rockets fired at civilians in Sderot don't get there by accident, do they?
Maybe coz women, children and old men are not your usual Hamas fighters,Yeah he could be making it all up, but thanks to Israels policy of not letting the media in we will never know. And I saw and heard Israel's response and no wonder there were loads of civilian deaths, tanks are not that exact.
Unfortunately for israel, the civilized world outside the bubble has seen and heard enough disturbing images from gaza to believe, unequivocally Dr. Gilbert's word over the IDF's lame justifications. Over 300 children dies and 100's more severly injured. But to the IDF - and the 95% of israelis who supported the atrocities, they were mostly hamas fighters. Incinerating people with phosphate bombs and slicing limbs with dime weapons is a perfectly normal act for the people who are determined to starve and terrorize the people of Gaza. Why? because they are arabs and compassion in Israel is non-existent. By contrast with israel - a war-like country with the outlook of sparta and the pretense of athens - Dr Gilbert is a humanitarian who is considered highly credible by everyne who saw him speak and/or witnessed his commendable efforts on behalf of humanity. What he saw is well in line with what BTS group reported and with the Gaza bombing pictures the world - not Israelis - saw.
Remember the old cold war joke about the Russians who invented a way to talk to dead people.... but they don`t answer? Well, in Gaza, Dr. Gilbert asked the dead bodies if they were terrorists and they answered and denied the evil accusation.
Those numbers fits very well to what is reported from journalists and NGO organisations. But the numbers do of course not fit very well to israels hasbara numbers that claims that almost no civilians were killed.
Israel methodically kept anyone with any claim to neutrality from observing what they were doing. Therefore, we have no alternative but to rely on the accounts of those who DID observe what the IDF was doing.
was because of the terrorists' penchant for hiding among civilians. *90% may well be a slight exaggeration.
If you answer, he would go ahead and tell the truth anyway, then you are a terrorist supporter yourself (like many of the posters here). If you answer, I see your point, getting actual credible facts and testimonies in Gazastan is close to impossible. Anyone who testifies, for example, that 60% of bodies were of Hamas men, will become part of the dead bodies statistics himself. Then you must conclude that any info obtained by this idiot is worthless and just propaganda.
With all our might, don`t you think that if we did target civilians, as you claim, we did a miserable job. We should have killed 100 times more civlians we that were true. Compared to the number of civilians Iran has murdered, Russia has murdered, NATO has murdered, the allies in WWII, we have truly failed. However, Hamas chose to target civilians (how can you target anything else when you fire inaccurate missiles or send suicide bombers?), but thanks for our targeting of Hamas, they failed miserably as well. Sorry dude, we have plans to stay around. Tough hey?
True and well said. Israel is trying to discredit Dr. Gilbert so that his book and statements will have no value.
A Doctor name "mad" is telling us what? Meanwhile the cellars of the very hospital this man butchered people were being used as hq for terrorist he was aiding. This man should be arrested for aiding war criminals and terrorist. Was Gilad Shalit also being kept in this hospital or his body perhaps?
The doctor was there to treat wounded people in Gaza's main hospital. Not to go hunting for Hamas HQ or double check if the victims really were civilians. Everybody knows his viewpoints and political standing, but that doesn't make his words less true.
So if the allegations, proof, witness accounts, anything for that matter is against or potentially against IDF , they must be fabricated or it is a propaganda ??
Pretty much like my assertion that anti-Israel posters always fabricate. I just said it so it must be true.
How did they know they were civilians? They asked them! How brilliant. And who really believes they asked them at all. Not me.
90% of the casualties brought to that hospital were civilians according to a person who has shown that he is a great supporter of the Palestinian cause. I wonder if he mentioned in his book that the long overdue invasion was brought on by the indiscriminate bombarding of Israel with rockets. So I guess that the book is totally biased. I find it sad that many in society are so stupid to read and actually believe such one sided viewpoints.
Dr. Gilbert is, contrary to what some here implies, a very respected man in his hometown. Not only have he been several trips to treat wounded palestinians, but he have also helped other oppressed people in Afghanistan, Burma and Kambodsja. Dr. Gilbert is still a member of the party simply known as "Red", a revolutionary socialist party.
most of bombing in ww2 japan germany france caused heavy civilian casualties
Since Dr. Gilbert clearly is going to be criticized and disregarded by the Pro-Israel sympathizers, we have no other choice. We all should listen to the statements from the Israeli military who said that most of the victims were militants. After all, when Israel clears Israel of wrongdoing, it is clearly not propaganda.
He asked wounded terrorists if they were terrorsits and if they said no he belived them?? Wonder what this guy would think if the terrorists said they were superman or batman or better yet santa. I guess he would believe them. As for the hamas using the hospital as a base, he says he didnt see it. Of course they didnt set up shop in an emergency room, DUH!!!! Did you check the basement??
I cannot speak to Dr Gilberts medical expertise but I would suggest anyone interested in Dr Gilberts political background Google it. I think you will find someone so twisted to the left that no rational person would trust anything he has to say about Israel or the US.
Do you not love it when a breathless headline reveals what we all have known since last winter? Hamas went to ground and kept it's casualties low. Islamic Jihad, thankfully was not as circumspect and took some heavy casualties. As the IDF chose to chastise the population and target the infrastructure instead of taking the heavy casualties going after Hamas would have incurred, the vast majority of casualties in Cast Lead were civilians. This is the fact. It was known back then. It could be watched day by day in the news coverage. Even the censored coverage in the Israeli press. The Palestinians should note that the 'Jenin rules' where by Israel took heavy casualties to avoid killing civilians no longer apply. Israelis should be honest enough to admit they have changed the rules and now they have joined the US and Great Britain in the indiscriminate use of massive firepower against civilians as a means of fighting war.
during the fighting. sufficient to say that the gazans started the fight and we ended it.
Let's see ---- He obviously didn't interview each patient, therefor he "assumed" that anyone not in fatigues is a civlian, an assumption so ludicrous it is beneath contempt. What an ovious liar.
90 per cent of people killed in the recent wars in Iraq and Afghanistan are also civilians. That's exactly what happens when a modern western army uses fighter jets, artillery and tanks to tackle an insurgency with stronng roots among the local community. There is no reason Cast Lead would have killed less civilians than US and UK troops in Iraq and Afghanistan and only the IDF claims it killed less. This doctor and other sources suggest the big majority killed in Gaza were civilians. Incidentally, that's why the UK and US have half lost the Iraq war, why they're losing the Afghan war, and why Israel won't win against the Pals. High civilian casualties always cause big anger and are hugely counter-productive.
This man has a long and troubling history of being an ardent extremist with very biased and dangerous views. It is folly to believe that his statements and views are anything other than part and parcel of his extremist agenda. He needs to be exposed, isolated and ignored.
The Israeli offensive forces and propagandist will try to smear Dr. Gilbert in any way they can. However, there is nothing new here, the israeli forces have always targeted civilians in their wars to maximize the damage and inflict pain and suffering on the occupied Palestinian population.Unless the west wakes up and put the necessary sanctions to pressure Israel we will continue to see and hear about the kiling of civilians. It worked in South Africa and it will work here as well. Israel was the closest country to South African regime.
Considering his book at best is second hand after the event hearesay from people in whose interest it is to get as much propoganda through ultra willing lefties as possible.
in view of this title it appears that self-marketing is the main concern of mads gilbert!
Dr. Gilbert may or may not be a good physician, but he's a lousy investigative reporter. I sincerely doubt he went looking for Hamas leaders in the Shifa Hospital basements, and they certainly wouldn't have stayed among the patients for several reasons. Since he doesn't speak Arabic and was dependent on a translator, any statements made by other parties are suspect. It's not likely that a wounded terrorist in civilian clothes would tell him, "I was wounded fighting the IDF". Of course there will be people who will jump on the "testimony" of his book as "proof" of their claims, but what is his proof, really? Nothing that could stand up in a court of law.
I wonder if the good doctor can describe the military uniforms of Hamas which distinguish them from Gazana civilians. Just another pinko saw bones trying to draw attention.