U.S.: PLO claim of threat to cut PA ties borders on 'absurdity'
Senior PLO official Hanan Ashrawi says Obama administration threatened to cut PA ties if direct negotiations with Netanayhu don't resume, Arab media reports.
By Natasha Mozgovaya, Jack Khoury and Haaretz Service Tags: Israel news Mahmoud Abbas Benjamin Netanyahu Palestinian AuthorityThe U.S. States Department said Saturday that reports that the administration of U.S. President Barack Obama threatened to cut off ties with the Palestinians unless they entered direct talks with Israel bordered on "absurdity."
The United States encourages the talks, it does not threaten, an official said. The White House source told Haaretz that the claim made by Hanan Ashrawi, a member of the Palestinian Legislative Council, was "not true."
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Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and U.S. President Barack Obama |
| Photo by: Archive |
According Ashrawi, the United States threatened to break off ties with the Palestinian Authority unless its leader, Mahmoud Abbas agreed to return to face-to-face peace negotiations with Israel.
He said the administration of U.S. President Barack Obama had ramped up pressure on Abbas' Palestinian Authority to move from American-mediated talks to direct negotiations with Israeli Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu.
"There has been huge pressure on the Palestinian Authority to move to direct talks," Ashrawi said in an interview with al-Quds al-Arabi, an Arabic-language newspaper published in London.
"They even threatened to isolate the Palestinians and cut off relations," she was quoted as saying.
Abbas has so far resisted calls from Israel and the international community to sit down opposite Netanyahu. But on Thursday the Arab League appeared to undermine his position, voting in favor of direct talks.
Talks made a tentative restart in May after a 15-month breakdown following Israel's two-week invasion of Gaza in December 2009 and January 2010 but have so far showed little progress.
The Palestinian government has so far insisted on seeing some "progress" from the Israeli side before moving to direct talks.
The Israeli government, the U.S. and the European Union have all expressed their desire that direct talks get under way "immediately".
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And the land and the will to build Israel. What's the problem? Just move all the Pals to Jordan or Egypt or to Arabia. They will NEVER own the land of Israel, NEVER.
Objectively, the state of Israel is still barely a blip in the lengthy history of the region. Don't be so sure of its longevity.
It is sad day in the diplomacy to resolve the ME proplem. The Obama administration has buckled under the pressure of the pro israel loby and decided that it cannot convince Netenyaho to reach an agreement with the Palestinins so they decided to pressure the weaker party, except that the Palestinians are the one under occupation, refugees and their homes are being demolished and cannot accept the Israeli dectated conditions of maintaining the status quo. It is time for Abbas to resign and stop providing a fig leaf for this occupation. The Palestinias are either the citizens of an independent viable Palestinian state or they are citizens of the state of Israel, they cannot remain in limbo.
How a people that never had a state and lost a war to grab land demand anything??? I still cant beleive how this can happen
Israel has become a might nation in the same time the pals have tried every war game they could on Israel ( and with total failures) 62 years later and the Pals haven't got a clue how to live in peace with one another or, with their neighbors. The world is weary of these liars and thieves who want what isn't theirs, Israel.
Notice the same people are involved for decades on the PLO side. How many Israeli Prime Ministers came and went while all the Arab Leaders have remained the same over the years? We tried making peace with Erekat, Ashrawi, Abbas and gang to no avail, as they all were developed from the Arafat model of diplomacy, ask for the moon and when they receive the moon, they then spit in your face and demand the stars as well.
Everyone has positioned themselves for what they see as inevitable. The Obama peace initiative is dead. Thus everyone is trying to pin the blame on the other. The Arab League has put israel in the position of causing failure, Abbas is trying to pin failure on Obama and Netanyahu is trying to blame Abbas. Everyone is looking forward to roast Dove in crow sauce.
he knows he does not have the support on the ground for a peace deal. Reaping what they sowed especially the oily tongues Arafat and his media
She is a professional in it for decades already.
Ashrawi was one of 12 Palestinians hand picked to be trained as agents by the administration of George Bush I and his Secretary of State James Baker III. The 12 Pals were known as "Baker's dozen".
when the world pressures israel (gaza blockade, inquiries etc) many talkbackers here make arguments like "can the whole world really be wrong?!" and accuse israel of being crazy. When calls come from most of the world for Abbas to just to sit at the darn negotitating table, these same talkbackers are remarkarbly silent...
your leaders know well what going on!! your leaders do more than world not to push Mr. President Abbas to sit on table but to destroy all peace process can you tell me what israeli government doing now for peace they r just good in media but in ground they pushing all P people to head to be more agressive and to not accept peace at all.. open ur eyes on ur TV you nead more lessons in diplomacy and being true and honest and your leaders too
it's like lying is a positive commandment for the arabs,
the american administration is the one who lie.. you (Israeli) accused them already of lies.. the A. A. are weak and not using truth any more as same to ur government of course
the rest of the world has them figured out quite well. They know their lying but, they need the oil.
Before getting all wound up I would really like to know if the rumor is correct or not.
if the arab league is approving something must be cooking ....abas must be given a way down the tree without looking weak........so let ashrawy make a lot of noise.......stand up to us pressure but yield at the last minute making it politically difficult for freeze opponents to stop it.........now the spotlight will be where do we go from here
..., one that will enable all to move towards an accommodation of peaceful coexistence with confidence. That move is simple and logical but one that must take place: The Muslim-Arabs, local and regional, must come out with a simple statement accepting Israel's right to be - not only the fact that it is - to exist as the nation-state of the Jewish people, based on historic, ethical and legal grounds. And that a peace treaty, when it is signed, will include an agreement between the sides that it will be considered the "end of the conflict". All will benefit from such a move, and no one will, if the Muslim-Arab leadership continues to refuse, to reject the need to state the above. So, my friends, which one will it be...??
is starting to understand what the two previous ones did: It is the palestinians that do not want to make the reasonnable compromises to achieve peace.
The truth is that the US cannot ever be an honest broker as long as administrations cower to Israel as Obama did with his demand that Israel permanently halt settlement construction per its previous Road Map committments. I personally agree with Abbas that if Israel cannot keep its previous commitments and Obama is not a strong enough leader to enforce them, why bother discussing new agreements for them to ignore in the future.
The first time I read this article, my understanding that the information came from the US. Now it appears the information was from a Palestinian and has been denied by the US State Department. Was my first reading in error or has the article substantially changed?. The US cannot be objective or even handed with the issue so it should not be involved in peace talks. Obama recognizes the problem but is hamstrung by the Israeli lobby in congress. Israel wants peace on its terms so direct peace talks are a waste of time -- Israel's goal. The UN should handle the matter. To cut down on terrorists attacks against the US, the US must disassociate itsself from Israel.
You know the UN is hijacked by muslim nations that don't recognize the state of Israel's right to exist and any vote in the UN would be a vote against Israel. You know that Israel is doing the dirty job in the middle east, serving the US to lessen the forces of evil gushing in waves from the Muslim world against the West, who's scriptures encourage attacks of Infidels. Btw, why don't you read the book Infidel (and sequel Nomad) and catch up a bit with the religion (Islam) that produces a culture of terrorism and hatred as explained by an ex-victim that managed to run to the West. Probably because you are a muslim yourself (or else a lefty that has not yet clued in)
we Americans will NOT be bullied by a bunch of barbarians into not supporting our friends. The more you terrorize us, the more we will side with and empathize with Israel. Sorry, but Americans are true blue and NOT fair weather friends!
The US again cave in to the Israelis, while Israel continues to expand settlements and destroy Palestinian property in E. Jerusalem, they want to talk to them directly,something BIBI has refuse to do in the past.Have you ever heard of someting so stupid, he said ifthe freeze continues, it will bring down his h=government, a point that Israelis are not capable of making peace.By pressuring the Pals to fall in a trap,Israel will offer them nothing, the Pals will walk away and they will look like the bad guys, it is crucial that the Plaestinians, get garantees from the Israelis, they cannot be trusted
willay - Pals have Shalit Pals fire rockets. Pals want a war, great bring on Cast Lead part 11.
Then they would not have any more excuses for not acting like a civilized nation. They teach their children hate and unfortunately they will always hate the state of Israel. This cat and mouse game always happens with the PLO... all words no action.
Mike, try to read more newspapers.
Palestine must continue the resistance. United States its an opressor state.
When Jesus Christ was not able to bring peace with Israelites, what chance have the Palestinians got?
Worse still, when Jesus Christ is not able to unify the Church what chance has anyone?
The church who murders Jews? The "mosque'? who murders Jews? which church exactly do you mean? Jesus, a Jew, would not be caught dead in one of them.( particularly when there were no 'churches' in the time of Jesus Christ) Funny stuff, Jesus in a church. my my.
The US must cut off the PA/PLO terrorist entity and stop wasting time with PLO leaders who have over and over proved they are incapable of leadership, honesty and lack the will, power, and intent to make peace.
Then we would end our ties with Israel. Three very costly wars (Iraq I, Afghanistan, Iraq II). Thousands killed on 9/11. Billions per year in aid and free weapons of terror to Israel. The hatred of many of the 1 Billion Muslims in the world. All because of US unconditional support of Israel.
Stop ranting and raving about the PLO, make peace and get on life.
Iraq I and II, and afghansitan had little to do with israel, and more about oil, and large geo-political considerations. All things considered, Israel is the cheapest part of US policy in the region. the way Iraq and Afghanistan are heading, Israel is also the most reliable part of US-ME policy.
ask their women.
I think Abbas should give direct talks a chance- the whole point of a negotiation is that both sides present their positions and gradually make concessions to reach a mutually-endorsed settlement. Personally I don't think either side is very keen on a peaceful resolution at this moment. As Logios said in his/her comment, by accepting the peace talks Abbas will be calling Netanyahu's bluff and can possibly topple his government. A less extreme Israeli government will be in place that will test Abbas' peace credentials. The only problem with all this, however, is Gaza and Hamas. Nevertheless, progress between Abbas and Israel (and a more peaceful, economically-stable, and independent West Bank) will weaken the Islamofascists, something Israel must also consider in its attempts to weaken hateful groups like Hamas and Co.
It has become quite clear the current White House is a bunch of incompetent pin-heads. No forward thinkers at all. That's what you get when you hire a bunch of cronies from the far left. I suppose they'll figure an excuse to blame it on Bush.
Israel can never declare final borders until the PA agrees them; that is how international law works with an occupying power and even the slavishly-pro-Hebrew USA will not let Israel breach that one, because the knock-on effect around the world would be seismic. So the only way they can hand the majority of Palestine to their little friends is by bullying and threatening Abbas to (a) enter direct talks where the Jews hold the cards and (b) give in to Israel's 14 conditions, or else the USA shall be very cross with them and extract revenge. Never in the history of international negotiations has so much been done for so few (Jews) by so many (dollars and senators). Abbas should stick to his guns: if Israel can't even agree the most basic things like borders, E Jerusalem and right of return, what on earth is the point of having talks with them at all?
"the Jews", eh? That shows exactly where you stand.
They are controlled by madmen who don't know the difference between peace and pancakes.
Palestinians in the West Bank live today much better then, say, in 2005, Abbas has negotiated directly with Olmert despite settlements and everything else, and his rule didn't collapse, on the contrary - you must ask yourself: why in the world would Palestinian Autonomy try so hard to escape direct negotiations NOW? Arguably they have their best possible friend in the White House, Israeli PM had committed himself to two-state solution, his support base is solid, there's a clear possibility to get a best deal ever. From now on it can only get worse - Obama might lose his majority in the Congress, American economy might stay in doldrums, next year the battle for re-election will gradually swallow presidential time and energies - why stall now? The answer is simple. Just like in 2000 and 2008, when two very different Palestinian leaders, Arafat and Abbas, had found themselves unable to cut a deal with Israel, so Abbas and Fayad are unable to do it now. They will NEVER be able to acknowledge the reality in which the JEWISH state is PERMANENT and the "return of "refugees" will NEVER HAPPEN. And so they prefer to drag their feet, hoping to get some more concessions without negotiations, dreading the moment when they will have to come to Camp David again and dredge up some new and interesting reason to throw their independence away - again.
that is a stead improvement in economy, security and autonomy. Security cooperation with Israel has improved also. Palestinians are thus on a good course toward some form of their own country at a pace they can dictate themselves. Abbas is not stupid: why take a risk at something that can blow up into your face ?
America cannot continue to give Israel money, weapons, and political cover and, at the same time, help the Palestinians. Obamas actions do a great deal of harm to the Palestinians and their futures. Calling Obama the best possible friend to the Palestiians is a joke.
palis need to ubnderstand the world is giving them a cghance at a state. They have only proved they do not want nor deserve a state. Abbas has got to suck it up. Israel makes no more comncessions until they are at the table. What specific concessions have the palis given natalie. It would be teh worlds thinnest book
and he was the pals best friend. no great loss, Americans are reviled by Obama's presence.
Your peace means, Jerusalem for you, most of settlements becoming Israel territory, most water resources for Israel, demilitarize Palestine, control of import , etc. In exchange Israel is probably ready to give a few square meters of the desert.
Israel, the Jewish State has never known peace from its neighbours! They try to kill it before and still do Since the hostile neighbours are spread almost throughout the Palestinian REGION, they still cant accept sharing a bit of land with NON muslims like themselves. LETS FACE IT THE CHRISTIANS ARE A MINORITY TODAY only because the MUSLIMS MADE THEIR LIVES INTOLERABLE ASK ME .. I KNOW... There isnt a single nation who was threatned with extinction and voila!! won all the wars the neighbors waged, and lost, now they cry they want their land they lost in war back!! without any promises of peace... well the world doesnt function this way you want something? What have YOU got to offer instead?
...in which millions of "refugees" are sent into Israel. Palestine is an Iranian base, etc.
The only peace the Palestinians want is one in which there is no Israel and that's not really peace anyway, since they will then kill each other. The word peace is not really in the Palestinian lexicon.
How do you really know what Israel is willing or unwilling to do until both leaders sit down at the conference table? Maybe you're right and maybe you're wrong, but unexpected thingsoften happen during negotiations. So instead of constantly accusing Israel of this or that, urge Abbas to sit his big, fat --- down at the conference table.
"They even threatened to isolate the Palestinians and cut off relations," the only language these people understand--very crude words and threats.
The Palestinians suffer the vagaries of the US election cycle. Operation cast lead was clearly carried out with US politics in mind. The Israeli's knew they could count on Bush to do nothing more than mumble about 'restraint' and feed the IDF with arms during that massacre; Obama was an unknown phenomenon. Now Obama has to ensure jewish support and look to be tough on Palestinians for another round of elections in november, and abbas knows he can't count on any substantial US support until after election day, if then. I predict more atrocities will continue against Palestinians, as Israel continues to test Obama.
how the US never threaten to cut ties with Israel despite their evil ways.
- the pals sit w/most of the cards anyway as the current israeli government has already shown it's incapable of doing what's necessary for a real peace. the only bad card the pals possibly might want to hide is their actual stand on the refugee issue.
Unlike his attempt to drag Netanyahu to the negotiating table, Obama is putting no political capital into this effort. It's not even being mentioned in the US press' It's become clear to Barack Obama that Israel holds all the cards when it comes to any peace settlement. It's also become obvious that Israel doesn't want any settlement now, or see any benifit that is worth the risk. Obama is just finishing up his play. After he has made it appear that the Palestinians are equally at fault in the "negotiations", he will be able to go to Israel and begin approaching her in the old style. I think that he's given up on the two state solution. I know that I have.
Israel receives billions of dollars in aid from the usa + diplomatic shield at the UN. Why not pressure Israel: - stop building illegal houses - stop killing people - stop destabilizing the region - stop the embargo - stop the checkpoints etc etc
Because Israel is an ally, for one. Jews are entitled to build on their own properties. Just because Jordan kicked them all out for 19 years didn't turn the area into an exclusively Arab region. People will stop being killed when the Palestinians stop terrorism. The region is destabilized because of an intolerance toward Jews. The embargo is there because of rocket fire from Gaza. The checkpoints are there because of the waves of terrorism initiated by the Palestinians in 2000. Anti-Israelis are morons.
In the past, it has always been Israel which had to be pressured into peace talks. The Palestinians cooperation was assumed. The reason for this is because the Palestinians have much to gain from peace and nothing to lose. Israel has much to lose and little to gain from peace. When peace talks are such an obvious sham, as the Obama talks are shaping up to be, it seems that the Palestinian cooperation can no longer be assumed. Additionally, there is a major issue with the Palestinian side which America is ignoring. Abbas term of office is ended. He represents only the Fatah faction. A peace agreement that excludes Hamas is worthless. This means that in the extremely unlikely scenario that both sides meet and negotiate, it will be worth nothing. Hamas is not bound by any agreement which Abbas makes. Another issue is the bribing of Israel. In order to get Israels cooperation, Obama had to promise more money, more weapons, a tougher stance against iran, and he dropped criticism of the settlements. What did this buy him? Nothing except a smiling silence on the part of Netanyahu and his coalition partners. They know that they will never even get to peace talks, and even if they did, their deal would be such that it would be rejected out of hand. Obama cannot do anything about this since he has already been exposed as a weakling and a dupe. Affirmative Action likely helped Obamas career, but Affitmative Action gives him no advantage with Israel.
Total inversion. But I forgot it what you guys do best.
point about any peace talks without Hamas involved. But when Durson finally says something half decent, it has to be coupled with some bribing crap etc. She also misses another point. Never enter any talks when your enemy is in a strong position. Always enter talks when you are at a strong position. We, humans, tend to work topsy turvy. The PA is now at the strongest position ever. The PA are nuts for not entering this negotiation this time, for humans have this short tension span to think whatever happens now, always happened and always will. Israel, on the other hand, from a logical standpoint, is nuts for entering peace talks now. Israel, wait a few months to a year to two years. The position of strength will be on your side. The PA will be desperate. You will then have all factions. Then do peace. Don't have this short sighted thinking that you must do it now or else... Keep cool. We must hope for peace each day and do it at the ripe time. Nonetheless, we should go out of our way to talk to the PA even now if they so wish. We should pursue peace, when it makes sense and when it doesn’t. Not because we want to impress anybody, but because peace is what all humans should strive for Peace from being killed. More, peace from having to kill others! May peace be reached one day in spite of all its adversities, Durson and her likes included.
Battle for freedom is always long drawn. The west cant give up its imperialistic dreams nor do its illegitimate child Israel. I am surprised to see that palestinians ever believed they can succeed in getting their own independent state with US as broker. It took India over two hundred years to achieve freedom and hardly 60 to get where it is now. We never needed america's dirty dollars. You better stop relying on a slave america and your corrupt and inefficient arab fellows. Be united and fight this racist illegitimate regime. Get them out of here once and for all.. good luck.
When India was offered independence, it took it. When the Palestinians were offered independence (a number of times), they rejected it each time.
The Arab league supports peace momentarily, hoping this is enough to get BHO to take care of Iran (?). After that, Arab League plans to call Abbas a traitor, and sacrifice him on the Altar of Fundamentalism. BHO uses Abbas to pay retroactively for the Nobel mortgage he got. Netanyahu, is happy to have a weak counterpart whose days are numbered until elections. What can Abbas do? Stall, and hope for something new to re-deal the cards.
as the first rate paper of israel,could haaretz prevail upon president obama,to divulge what the u.s government considers a satisfactory conclusion to this conflict,borders and all.they've also been involved and preoccupied,for at least 66 years.don't they want to move on or take a rest?
... that Israel and the Arabs of the WB that Jordan abandoned must jointly through negotiations work out a compromise on its future. Nobody in the world is unaware that Arabs have a problem with the word "compromise" when it comes to non-Muslims.
Any USA pressure like this favors Israel. The Obama leadership would be tainted by such action. It would be an admission of a conspiracy to further undermine a viable Palestine.
No such thing. The only viable Palestine exists east of the Jordan. Just convince Abdullah to abdicate his throne to Hamas. Deal ???
Any USA pressure like this favors Israel. The Obama leadership would be tainted by such action. It would be an admission of a conspiracy to further undermine a viable Palestine.
Vladek, don't be so naive and beleive everything you read in this news paper .
that Obama started listening, pretty soon they'll be as free as a bird, without U.S. financial support or backing. People need to remember the old doctrine, careful what you wish for, you just might get it.. Soon Palestinians will indeed be completely "free", of political and financial support...
God willing, once Palestine is FREE we will build it from the ground up.
and the Jews did build it from the ground up. The Pals are fighting with G-ds chosen, that's why they are doomed to continued failures and disappointments.
Everyone by now knows the relationship between the US and its most cherished charity-case. So the notion of double standards should not come as a surprise. However, much can be said about The Arab League, which really should serve as more than just consultants for the Palestinians. If they threatened to halt energy commerce with the west, there would be untold upheaval and anxiety among those nations who support unconditional direct jokes (talks)... not to say it wouldn't affect the Arabs too, some of whom are deeply entrenched in egocentric nationalism.
The fear of direct talks is common with liars and those who fear looking into the opponent straight in the eyes.
"Israel needs war"...and you need your head examined. If Israel wasn't interested in peace why would she give back oil-rich Sinai to Egypt, return the GazaStrip to the Pals and offer to give back 93% of the West Bank ? No country gives back that much territory in a war initiated by the other side if they're not interested in peace.
The Only form of government that needs war is Dictatorship, because the Dictator needs to distract his people from the fact that they are living like poor slaves to his whims. Israel, thankfully, is a democratic country so it benefits from peace..
They're making too much money steeling land from the Pals.
When exactly did all of this land belong to the Pals? Didn't you know that Jordan captured those territories and kicked off all the Jews for 19 years? So, who really stole the land?
Fortunes have been made through the theft of Palestinian land. If you want to understand the Israel/Palestine conflict, read everything you can find about the land issue. Everything else is secondary.
Thirty years ago Israel was a very different country and even Menachem Begin would make peace when the US acted as an honest broker. Now things are different. Most Israeli's today were not alive then, and America is no longer an honest broker.
Democracies are not immune from War. Netanyahu has a very shaky government and he has stated it will fall if he tries to continue the 'settlement freeze'. Thus he cannot possibly allow peace, and can only gain from war.
No israel, No Palestine. One State Solution is the best for all. One Man, One Vote, Equality for all inhabitants. Equal Pay for Equal Work, Equal Water Rights. No Apartheid, No Segregation...A Very True Secular Democrac Let us call it: “State of Holy Land”.
There is no Apartheid anyway and if you think there is you are misinformed. One state solution isn't going to work because in democratic capitalism there is no equality, ever...
There will not be a 23rd Arab state in place of the only Jewish state. The two people split in a civil war, and have demonstrated that they cannot live together. The best bet for the Palestinians is to negotiate a state for themselves and quit rejecting a state when one is offered to them.
You are joking ,right ????
One State might be good in Denmark, not here. Israel is in possession of Israel and yesha. Possession is 9/10 of the law, and the palestinians can have a State id they behave. Thus far, they haven't (Terror, terror, terror). Only choice, other than learn to play nice, is start a war to regain their lost land. The downside is losing a war and losing more land (and you will cry foul). Those are the choices, NOT One State.
Israel and Palestine need a divorce, not a shotgun wedding. The possibility of a one-state solution vanished in 1947 when both sides understood that the proposed partition of a single Palestine into Arab and Jewish sectors was not workable.
Once again, the President of the United States of America has caved in from pressure by the Israel Lobby. It is apparent to any informed observer that the US is not a fair and honest broker in the so-called "Peace Process". US policy in the Middle East is crafted by a tripartite War Lobby; specifically the Defense, Israel and Energy lobbies (DIE). When the Obama Administration and the US Congress condemned the UN Goldstone Report, the facade of impartiality was forever stripped away. The 2-state solution is apartheid lite; the binaltional, 1-state solution is the way to go. Many, if not most Americans would support that pragmatic approach.
Does not suck, when US caves in to Israel every time ? My questions is why ? I thought US is strong country ?
Ashwari was lying about the U.S. threat. There was no caving to "the Israel Lobby." You anti-Israeli morons swallow all kinds of crap.
A 1 state solution can not be democratic because both sides claim all the land. The Palestinians will launch a bedroom blitz and civil war would be a certainty,
Maybe the Arab Palestinian people will rebel from all this tomfoolery and work to make peace themselves. Maybe West Bank Muslims who were once Jews but were forced to convert to Islam will revert to Judaism. Maybe the recalcitrant Arabs will end up with the big Zero.
WHICH MAKES HAMAS BOLDER AND GAINS MORE SUPPORT
Sit in the same room and talk, are you that terrified?
Be real careful when you invoke the whole world in your statements dude. They know better.
They expected too much from a so called left wing american president. They expected that Obama will squeze Israel without getting any concessions from the other side. Reality is much stronger than what Durson wishes. As a matter of fact, Obama is not a friend of Israel and wants very much to press Israel. However, he NEEDS SOMETHING FROM THE OTHER SIDE. He needs some help from the palestinians, and he will never get something out of them. Nataniahu has succeded with minor concessions ( freeze settlements) to drop the ball to the Palestinian courtyard. He does not want to give a palestinian state... that is true and for that reason he is not trusted by several western leaders. He could and can become again the villain of the movie. However, the palestinians are here to save him with their relentless rejection to enter into direct negotations which will lead them to face two facts 1) The right of the jewish people to the state of Israel, namely a jewish state. 2) The end of conflict , or end of demands after a peace treay will be signed. The rejection of these two points is consistent with the PLO charter and obviously with Hammas charter. No American president could help the palestinians with these two rejections. No american president can propose something better than what was proposed by Clinton and already rejected by the palestinians. Palestinians are doomed.
Obama doen't have the guts to tell Osrael to stop the settlements, so he resorts to exerting pressure on the victim, what a joke. America is really occupied.
Their own stupidity and tendency toward violence?
P.A WILL BE CALLING CHINA, RUSSIA, MAYBE IRAN FOR SUPPORT
SO WHAT, let them do it
I take it that Obama is pressuring Abbas for Direct talks because of the coming US elections (where Jewish contributions to Democrats will be useful), and Abbas is resisting because he is afraid of losing prestige with his public. But the talks are not a bad idea. One may start with the safe assumption that this Netanyahu government is not capable of progressing in any significant way towards a peace agreement. The inevitable result is that the Palestinians must do whatever they can to topple the Netanyahu government so that it is replaced by a more peace-oriented one. Since Abbas and the Arab League apparently believe in Obama's sincerity, they also believe that once Obama realizes that what they see in Netanyahu (i.e., a void) is correct, Obama will join them in their goal to topple the Netanyahu government. This is reasonable, and it has a historical precedent. Jim Baker got tired of the Shamir government lying ways and absolute determination to hold on to the West Bank, so it criticized it in public and punished Israel financially, which resulted in the Israeli public replacing Shamir with Rabin in the following elections. It is a reasonable approach which may work even faster this time. It is likely that with no real progress towards peace, the Labor party will quit the government, making it even more hardline and more resistant to any concession. For this strategy to work, Abbas should attempt to make sure Labor has no excuse to remain in the government. Let him extract from Netanyahu the best possible "good will gestures", go to direct talks, then suspend them when Israel declines to extend the freeze over settlement construction.The snowball will start rolling after the US Congressional elections this November, and will gain speed when Labor gives up on Netanyahu.
Pretending that it's Israel which doesn't negotiate in good faith, while it's the Palestinians who refuse to negotiate in the first place. A bunch of hyperbolic, hypothetical stupidity to replace overt reality. Typical of a brainless, anti-Israeli numbnut.
I don’t think the US or Israel’s present government really want a settlement but for different reasons; a certain level of instability suits the US in areas where it has ‘strategic interests’ and the status quo enables the extension of the Israeli presence in the disputed lands. What both want to avoid at all costs is anything that might open a door towards a one state solution which would deprive the US of a Middle East fortress and Israel of its Zionist pursuits. Abbas sees this, as does the rest of the world, and what he has to avoid is getting pushed into a patchwork of unmanageable enclaves dotted here and there in an unsympathetic environment. Why should Abbas sit down and debate how to divide a cake if Netanyahu won’t stop eating it?
Shame poor Abbas he does not know if he was Arthur or Marther..............he has lost it.........
Middle East peace and U.S. Congressional elections somehow don't really mesh. President Obama governs by doing the right thing and he's not really paying attention to those unsupportive of his policy because in the end, security in the Middle East is translated into global security. Therefore, amongst those players in the Middle East who don't understand this approach, then they simply shouldn't be in government and should instead go open up a small business or something like that. I use the words my mother has always phrased unto those politicians who aren't in sync with reality.
If Jewish communities grow, they are eating the cake. But if Arab communities grow, they are NOT eating the cake? Why were Jews thrown out of the cakefest in 1949 to begin with?
Without a Congress supportive of Obama, he may not be able to carry out any initiative and may then fail to get reelected. A good politician will delay what controversial moves, get a good Congress, then do what he wants to do. This is a simple explanation for Obama's present policy towards Israel. As far as "proof" about Netanyahu's capabilities, just read my other posts, especially concerning continuing the settlement freeze.
said Abbas was right to resist direct talks. I would't waste your time with him. Not a very good analyst
It is true that I thought it was right for Abbas to resist the US, lest he loses his standing with the Palestinian population. Two things happen in the last couple of days. First, the Arab League decided to support the US position, thus giving Abbas political cover for his people. Second, it was claimed that Obama was pressuring Abbas (and League countries) strongly. Indeed, today it was disclosed that Obama threatened to cut ties with Abbas if he does not comply. In short, the price for following the previous strategy I advocated went way up, where as the benefit went way down. I think it was right to change my recommendation. As Moshe Dayan once said, "only donkeys never change their mind". But perhaps you have a different opinion. And perhaps you will never change it.
and when the facts and evidence support it. But I try to do careful, thoughtful analysis to begin with, and not talk off the top of my head before facts are known. My aim is to understand, to the best of my ability, and not stroke my ego,or try to impress others. Something you should consider
This is a recording.
Your recording is boring. It's Abbas who isn't coming to the table and it's the Palestinians who've rejected every peace offer.
Mark Lincoln does not want peace. Mark Lincoln does not know what peace is and, worse of all, Mark Lincoln would do anything to block any chance for peace!
A scorpion died in Ashkelon. So a man had to die in Gaza and 10 others were wounded, including a little girl and an old man. Hamas or somebody to their right feeding their Likud allies. to kill peace prospects.
Your are right Mark! And regrettably the needle has been stuck for years!!
...of lies
What's the point in talking to Abbas at all? Give me a break. Press Hmas to leave first...
This is something I am expecting for 2 reasons (1) Abass is taking his decisions through a NON democratic process, and he is the weak dictator here. (2) Abass and his supporters survive mainly on Western financial support. So, how can someone says no under these circumstances?
US THREATENS Abbas to bring him to the PEACE negotiations? Threat and Peace do not go in the same sentence.
Abbas has nothing to gain from direct peace talks that are not accompanied by a guarantee of settlement freeze including east jerusalem. I believe abbas has more to lose than American support namely the support of palestinians, something he will lose should he cave in to direct talks with no gains.
Palestinians holding out in perpetuity hasn't worked very well for them, has it?
The one democratically elected party in Palestine is not Abbas'. He knows this; everyone knows it. Those who believe they can achieve anything with such a weakened character are themselves not serious about a negociation. Imagine a gathering of the most extreme far wing Israeli majority with the most illegitimate Palestinian representatives in decades. Fools are building on quicksands. The firm ground being the will of the people.
stop delaying, stop avoiding...this is where you actually have to make peace or else...the world will finally see that its the palestinians who all along have not wanted peace as that means giving up on the dream of taking all of israel.
Stop delaying are off you off your head its the Israeli government that is dealying by threatening to restart settlement construction. You cowards with your amercian friends need to be cleral about what you want. Either agree to the terms set and recgonised by the inetrnational community and withdraw to tthe 1967 lines or promise to do. And maybe Abbs will agree to hold talks. Otherwise its you Israel that will leave when the Abbas has nothing to offeer his people they will flush him out and the war drums will start beating. And this time there you'll have the Gaza strip and the west bank to deal with. along with the international community at their side who will blame Israel for being stubborn even though it is clearly in the wrong.
A very good perspective into the seriousness from the Israeli position into going directly to face-to-face talks with the Palestinians is to watch DM Ehud Barak on the PBS Charlie Rose program on July 29th. He makes a very convincing argument and completely correct in resuming negotiations.
Mr Abbas, you should engage forecefully in the process,This is the Palestinian's chance to have an American president who wants to give the Palestinians a homeland. Go for it and unmask Netanyahu. Obama is a winner, if you see how he acheived the health care legislation against all odds, will give you much needed hope that he will do it again. Fire-up ready to go. This is a rare chance. Go for it.
Fine, then declare their own country based on the 1967 borders. Iran and Syria should cause problems in Iraq and Afghanistan...and let the games begin.
Hamas, Meshal, the Arab League, the assassins....... Not that Netanyahu is much less afraid of Lieberman, Shas, and his own Likud who won't agree with compromises he must make....Barak had it easier in 2000, with fewer opponents behind his back ...... and still nothing was accomplished. A tough job for Obama..............
1) Accept Israel's right to be - not only the fact that it is - to exist as the nation-state of the Jewish people, and that on the basis of historic, ethical and legal grounds. And 2) accept that any peace treaty that is singed will be considered by the sides as the "end of the conflict". Both requirements, while simple and logical to the objective observer, contradict the very reason for the existence of the Palestine Liberation Organization (PLO) that was set up in 1964 by the Arab League, three full years before Israel captured the now disputed territories, it being a tool of the Arab League in "liberating" "Palestine", i.e. the elimination of Israel of course. Abbas heads the PLO and neither he as his predecessor, Arafat, can't accept these two demands, thus attempting to have the cake and it it too...!!
see-no peace approaching possibility,as long as israeli and u.s. governments agree with you.
...the implementation of UN Security Council Resolution 242, as is, which has been the basis for all peace talks and agreements to date. Israel, based on 242, will will withdraw from more "territories" - not all territories, mind you - that it has so far, and will do so to "secure and recognized boundaries" as called for by 242, to be determined by the sides. And the sides are, according to 242, are Egypt, Jordan, Syria and Israel. 242 does not call for the setting up of an additional state in the region nor does it make use of concepts such as "Palestine" or "Palestinians", ones that were put forth only later by the Muslim-Arab side of the conflict for political expediency. And since we are interested in an accommodation of peaceful coexistence between Arab and Jew, between the Muslim-Arab world and the nation-state of the Jewish people, Israel and not political expediency. "Territories" from which Israel withdraw will then be transferred to Egypt and Jordan in the case of Gaza and the West Bank, respectively. So, let us push for 242 now, shall we??!!
1)East Jerusalem as Palestinian Capital. 2) Israel inside 67 borders 3) Right of return for the Palestinian or land swap to compensate?
...discussed by the relevant parties. Since none of the posters here is a member of any of the team, I propose we leave the subject to them. Israel, however, did state the following red lines: 1) The Muslim-Arabs would have to accept Israel's right to be - not only the fact that it is - to exist as the nation-state of the Jewish people, and that is based on historic, ethical and legal grounds. 2) A treaty would have to be considered the "end of the conflict". And, 3) Any Arab political entity that may come about would have to be de-militarized. The question is: Can the Arabs live with these simple and logical red lines...??
A. East Jerusalem. Depends how we define "east Jerusalem. If it is the old city perhaps shared and largely Jewish areas of "east jerusalem" for Israel and the Arab areas for Palestine, then likely yes. B. There are no '67 borders. That part will not work. only secure borders will. again largely jewish areas of the west bank for israel and largely arab areas for palestine. C. The Palestinians can return to a new state of Palestine with the land they get for their state as "compenstation" . Israel must be recognized that it exists as the nation state of the Jewish people and the conflict will be forever over.
Abbas the quisling is now finding cozying up to the US is not so pleasant if he is reluctant to take marching orders. He is now between a rock and a hard place - toast if he does and toast if he doesn't.
The talks will produce nothing. What is there to talk about? Abbas can not conclude any agreement since he does not represent the Palestinian people. Another avenue has to be found.
"The United States has threatened to break off ties with the Palestinian Authority" Good! The Palestinians are better off without the USA. And the sooner the USA drops the farcical pretence of being a disinterested mediator between Israel and the Palestinians, the better for all concerned - including Israel itself.
contrariness is difficult to understand... what does he hope to gain by that, apart from stagnation?...
The Palestinians get almost nothing from America. The few measly dollars America gives are only a small fraction of America gives Israel every year to buy weapons. America has proven to be the major supporter of Israel in the world. As such, American brokered peace talks are the largest conflict of interest in the world. It would be proper for America to recuse itself from all peace talk activities. We should have a fair and disinterested thried party sponsoring peace talks. Obama tried to get tough with Israel and got slapped down on the world stage. Now he is trying his luck with the Palestinians. Obamas peace efforts are the worst and most chaotic ever. He should really admit defeat on mideast peace and tackle something that he is more likely to have better luck.
You mean a party without any power or influence over either side? Yeh that will work :)
Why not give your President a chance, it would appear that he is trying everything to twist arms and encourage the two sides to meet, as a Jew I sometimes think that he is a little too soft on the Palestinians, time will tell, but for now he , and the influence of the USA are the best hope to start the dialogue.
What the hell r u writing about, when you have nothing to write but still feel like writing? Write away!
It is time the Palestine’s call the Israelis bluff and give up their dream for a Palestine state. Become a part of Israel with all its democratic rights it claims to have with respect to its Arab population. You will then the see the dark side of the Zionist front. Abbas give them the key to Palestine and demand your right as an Israeli. You’ll be doing the Arab and Muslim word a favor, the Palestines will not be used as fodder for the criminal regimes that are currently in power, with the exception of Turkey, Malaysia & Indonesia
Israel is a democracy. Think it will remain one if 3-4 million Palestinians suddenly become citizens? This whole thing started as an ethnic war between the Arabs and the Jews in 1920. The populations had to be separated to de-escalate. It's amazing how many morons think that by putting the two populations together again there will be some sort of viable resolution.
It started way before 1920 when a large minority of people thought they could treat other people like indigeneous and slaves. Guess what i'm talking about. Have you ever been ever been to a library ?
Agree. Moreover who in the world would want to become part of a democratic but apartheid state? A reality that is unchangeable. The only way to go is a fully sovereign contiguous Palestinian state in line with internationally recognized 1967 borders and East Jerusalem as its capital.
If you have a "fully contiguous Palestinian state," Israel would not be contiguous. The '67 lines aren't "internationally recognized borders." The Palestinians were already offered roughly 98% of the territories with E. Jerusalem as a capital TWICE and rejected the offer both times.
One state solution was tried from 1922 - 1948 and was terminated by UN. UN res. 242 calls for negating on the borders issue.
MEANING THE TRUE OBSACLE IS AMERICANS AND ISRAEL SETTLER CHARITIES GETTING TAX FREE MONEIES GOING TO SETTLERS
Russia has armed Israel's enemies and is highly racist towards its Jewish population. The EU nearly wiped out its Jewish population. What makes you believe they would be fair brokers?
US money is funding Arab settlements in Judea-Samaria and Gaza.
The US cannot be objective or even handed with the issue so it should not be involved in peace talks. Obama recognizes the problem but is hamstrung by the Israeli lobby in congress. Israel wants peace on its terms so direct peace talks are a waste of time -- Israel's goal. The UN should handle the matter.
Do you have a problem with the EU and Middle East dealing with the problem? Both have nearly wiped out their respective Jewish populations. Think they will be objective?
no more propping up corrupt puppet Abbass no more CIA plots to split Hamas/Fatah no more U$ mercenary generals 'training' PA 'security' to kill Resistance no more U$ arms for goon Dahlan For true Palestinian Freedom, freedom from U$A is a prerequisite
Israel should instead Demand for a complete cessation of any military activities as a Prerequisite to continue any Peace Talks. Democracy should not bow to all this Non-Disreputes by being made to look like desperados' for peace like allowing the Neo-cons to make justice and civilians to be barbarians.
Instead of being angry at settlement building, instead of applying pressure on Israel where it most matters since it's not the Israelis who are under occupation, the US administration is stepping up pressure on Palestinians and threatening to cut off ties? What a joke!
Abbas is correct to refuse to negotiate with a government that is confiscating the very land that is the subject of negotiation. It is petite imperialism, Israeli style. The only way out, now that the US is taking sides (again), is Boycott-Divestment-Sanctions by the people of the whole world (excepting the US).
What exactly happened to the notion that you negotiate peace with your enemies not with your friends? If the Palestinians want land they need to negotiate.
if the Israelis want land, they just need to perpetuate the status quo.
Abbas is correct to refuse to negotiate with a government that is confiscating the very land that is the subject of negotiation. It is petite imperialism, Israeli style. The only way out, now that the US is taking sides (again), is Boycott-Divestment-Sanctions by the people of the whole world (excepting the US).
When Jewish communities grow, it's land grabbing. When Arab communities grow, it isn't. And what about Jordan kicked every single Jew out of their communities in the West Bank and East Jerusalem in 1948, then attacking Israel again in 1967? That wasn't a big land grab?
Abbas is the Man ! He got a carbon-kevlar suit and tie. He the Invincible Arab Dude ! Go tell your American puppet-master that we not impressed wid you-all threat'n our bro ! When we come face to face, ... WE just look the other way, man. Putting pressure on us just produces gas, ... you'd better keep your distance, we fry your skinny little butt ! We have no relations with you and you can't isolate us, ... WE are connected to every civilized person on this Holy Planet ! You want to talk ? ... talk to the SUIT ! Salaam
"They even threatened to isolate the Palestinians and cut off relations," this is the only language the palestinians understand--clear words and threats if neccessary. arab people do not respect diplomacy and soft-spoken words.
Just try to imagine Israel threatened with a cut off of military and financial aid from the US ( 3 billions per year). In less than a month all settlements would be evacuated, 67 borders agreed, East Jerusalem evacuated. You see, peace is very easy to achieve.
Isolate them? No relations? Palestinians certainly wouldn't be any worse off. An AIPAC lead by the nose Obama has already world wide become somewhat less than an amusing joke.
What does this mean? It means that if you don't comply with the US policies then you're out of the game. That what has happened with Yasser Arafat ten years ago when he refused to give up what he can't really give up. With Abu Mazen the scene is coming back again. There are two assumptions: either Obama can't really help in this chronic conflict so he wants "to cut ties" or that they just want this conflict to continue through delaying peace negotiations which for me means achieving a Palestinian state (that seems to be not in favor of neither Obama or Bibi). Abu Mazen shall quit at once, thats what I can think of right now or we will see Israeli jeeps surrounding his home in Ramallah!
Wow, this Obama really is different from GW Bush, isn't he ...
Neither the Israelis nor the Palestinians are following the desire of the whole world to stop their aggressivíty, the Israelis, well equipped by the USA with the most modern weapons and the Palestinians with their primitive rockets. Therefore the ties must be cut with both parties. The Israelis would suffer more because they receive billions of US Dollars for their criminal acts.
israel is not going to dictate the outcome either
Obama, cut ties wth Israel
Here, in the US, that is called political suicide.
Yes, you are right, China and Iran have excellent track records of being honest peace brokers......
and its a unbreakable bond
All this whining about what the Palestinians suffer through, meanwhile, they reject every peace offer and resort to terrorism.
Keep your moral for yourself, your superiority and arrogance. Palestinian laugh about you and i join them.
Laugh all you want. Israel is a country, and the Palestinians still don't have one. You're on here whining about them not having one every day, so who's the last laugh upon? Not me!
Yet again being forced to negotiate with predicted fruitless outcome as is always the case ... Israeli settlements will continue to be built on occupied land, Palestinian homes will continue to be demolished and their land and property seized and so on ... This face to face pretend to negotiate with the Palestinians is just a buy of time and cover face for Netanyahu's lack of will for peace. Netanyahu and his Government know the end goal of the Palestinians and the Arab league but what did he counter offer so far ... A state with no borders ... economic autonomy nothing more nothing less ... I don't believe any peace is achievable in the Middle East unless the Zionism ideology is rejected outright by the majority of Israelis.
Why would Jews give up the ideology that they have a homeland? Besides, what makes you think that this land belongs exclusively to the Palestinians? You don't think the Jews are living where there were Jewish communities prior to 1948? If Jews continue living on lands where they have had a presence, they are expanding, and taking the land away from others, but the Arabs aren't doing the same with their population growth? And if all the Jews are evicted, that wouldn't be Arab expansion? Didn't the Arabs "expand," their territory when they kicked most of the Jews out of the rest of the Middle East? Where were those Jews supposed to go?
In the meantime the best option is to make peace with the zionists.
The European Jews to Europe, the American Jews to USA, the Russian Jews to Soviet Union, the African Jews back to Ethiopia but the ARAB JEWS should remain in Palestine. It is as much their country as that of Muslim Palestinians or Christian Palestinians. I don't expect all Muslims to reside in Iran just because it is mostly Islamic, or all Christians to claim the Vatican as their country ... this logic is ridiculous !!!
"I don't believe any peace is achievable in the Middle East unless the Zionism ideology is rejected outright by the majority of Israelis. " That translates to, : "I don't believe that peace is achievable in the Middle East until the Jews are subdued and become Dhimmis, paying the Jizya and living under the sufferance of the Muslim masters. " Let's stop kidding ourselves. This whole thing is a religious war. Islam cannot tolerate non Muslims. It's that simple. The only solution is change in the stone age Muslim mentality.
and wait till he got everything he wanted through the US President Obama has woken up to the simple fact that avoiding and undermining the President of Israel is not going to bring peace Time for Abbas to do some of his own work for a change
President Obama from day 1 of his administaration has put out his hand in friendship to the Islamic powers in the region....especially towards Iran. He has received nothing but rebuke for his efforts. The carrot has not worked......time for the stick ???
Under no circumstances whatsoever must the Palestinians talk peace without the demolitions to stop, all buildings of settlements to stop and borders agreed to pre 1967 borders. Is Obama the most unprincipled President that America has ever had. So much for his fine speeches, so much for his word.
Don't you want the Palestinians to have a country of their own?
des egan....That makes no sense...The longer the pals wait for direct talks the more obsticles there'll be>>>Setting conditions for talks is foolish. Abbas is not the answer! Even the Arab league is on board.
is people like you to leave them alone. You are not superior and never will be.
What kind of country ? The one you imagine for them ? No thank you.
98% of the territories with a capital in E. Jerusalem isn't enough?
you still believe that old propaganda don't you. AHahhahahha
Would the US dare to "cut ties" with Israel for its settlements acivities ? Of course not !! These are biaised negociations from the start.
Biased against terrorists and those who whine about wanting a country, but refusing to negotiate for one? Oh well. I guess cops are biased against criminals and that's a bad thing?
Obama threatening to cut ties with Israel is they don't renew the settlement freeze. I honestly can't believe I voted for this fool.
This is nothing but blackmailing, you want to everything with force. this is another mean of you to speak this tone.
I have little hope of achieving a genuine peace with these clowns, but continued lack of dialogue is the only thing worse than unproductive dialogue. Priceless photo, BTW: old Mahmoud looks like he swallowed a bullfrog!
Intifadas, terrorism, self-exploding people, killings, the Pals are not used to forcing a situation...
Although very difficult, only direct negotiations can bring about a true and lasting peace. Pushing around the prospective peacemakers is no blackmail, because none of the parties involved seems willing to move.
Gazza and Westbank Arabs have launched countless suicide attacks and murder people at random. You want it all you won't have it. Israel is Jewish land we all know it.
If you can't sit down and negotiate then you can't be considered serious. You want a state, then negotiate. It is time to solve this conflict. No more excuses.
It's clear Abbas is holding up the process.
it was the Palestinian doctrine to do everything by force. As in, blow up buses, murder Olympiads in Munich, take airports and airplanes hostage, launch rockets into civilian territories. And you say ISRAEL and AMERICA wants everything by force? Because Arafat was the equivalent of Ghandi right? Despite people critisizing Israel for getting annual U.S. aid, SO DO THE PALESTINIANS! And it's time the Palestinian leaders stop extorting American money while waiting another 62 years to come to decisions.
and begin the bargaining for what he wants... his sulky refusal is bad for the Pals... constant refusal reveals that Abbas has no constructive solution... his refusal is merely procrastination...
He's like a mouse. Every time he sees some food he comes out to gnaw,then goes back to his hole.
Isn't that what an effective politician is supposed to do?