U.S. official: Final status issues to be discussed only in direct Mideast peace talks

and this is what Abbas is doing right now, he wants to enter direct talks making sure he isn't ambushed. he stated he is willing to keep settlements but to have land of equal value from Israel side, a fair resolution to the refugees, and a third party observing the vast areas Israel wants to keep under it's "military" control for security reasons, this way israel should have it's security without the need to keep 50% of the west bank under it's "military" rule. seems fair enough to me, the Israelis are those that want direct talks while they are still building settlements, i do believe that once the direct talks start, we Palestinians should stop them instantly if Israel starts building new settlements or building enormous amounts of housing in existing ones. we should have done this long time ago.

The same logic implies that the UNSC can return California and Texas back to Mexico without consultation with the U.S. "UNSC must act!"

America knows that consecutive Israeli governments have clearly indicated their readiness to turn over West Bank territory for a Palestinian state. Former prime ministers Ehud Barak and Ehud Olmert both offered to withdraw from almost all of the West Bank. for a

so many redundant comments on this one article. Go to the beach, draft a nice plan for the Israeli PA conflict and how to resolve it. Perhaps, a random guy from SF will be impressed and fall in love with you. Treat him nice. Be humble.

is simply astonishing. and repeating the same over and over simply makes it more so. America supports Israel for many reasons with powerful mutual benefits for both nations. first among them being the survival of the Jewish people in their homeland. Israel is surounded by many just like you. those who do not accept her as the nation state of the Jewish people and those who would see her destroyed if they only could. the American people stand with the State of Israel. deal with it. Abbas is not about a viable peace for his people. he wants a "deal' on his terms without negotiations. only direct negotiations with difficult and painful concessions from both parties will bring about a chance for peace in the region and a new nation for the arab palestinians.

Ms. Durston, It seems that you favor a lack of peace. It's sad that there are such warmongers to soil America the beautiful.

and that is the propagand you spreading on their behalf! lie lie lie!

goes away as soon as everyone knows what settlements will remain in israel as part of a deal. that will only happen through direct negotiations and Bibi has said that can be the first item on the agenda. the Palestinian Arabs may protest all they want, but they will get nothing without direct negotiations.

hamas and arafat were right resistane in the only way israel understands

I'm not sure where you've been, but -- Bibi, for the first time, said he was willing to establish a Palestinian state. Do they want it or not?

He said if the Pals do *this*, and *this* and *this* THEN he might just be open to the idea of discussing the possibility of them having a Palestinian state. But there is a distinction to be made between "willing to establish a state" and "I won't rule that out".

If Mr. Abbas wants an independent Palestinian state, he will avail himself of any opportunity to enter into direct negotiations as soon as possible. If he chooses not to do so and instead to gain the approval of people like you who wish to exploit and prolong the statelessness of the Palestinians so you can spend your time on Talkback exploiting their situation and pretending to be their advocates that will Abbas's mistake.

You understand that when Jordan captured East Jerusalem it kicked out all the Jews, then attacked Israel again 19 years later. Why should it be handed over willy-nilly to the Palestinians? When was it ever theirs to begin with? You want to talk about "discrimination?" What about the vast majority of the Jews being kicked out of the rest of the Middle East? Israeli Arabs have all the rights which Jewish Israelis have, numbnut.

and pigs should grow wings and fly....

It didn't have an Arab majority til 1947 when Jordan cleansed all Jews. inconvenient truth. Under Jordanian rule no Jews were allowed in that part of the city let alone prey in our holiest place. Under Israeli rule religious freedom reigns. Funny I don't see any 'palestinian rule' there.

Quite agree with you. East Jerusalem has to be a part of an Arab state because Israel is already fed up of providing municipal services to people who do not pay taxes and of paying unemployment allowance to 80% of East Jerusalem population and also huge allowances on children. I wonder, however, if East Jerusalem residents (not political leaders) will be very happy to be transferred from "apartheid" Israel to Palestine. Has anybody asked them?

And it will never be returned to savages who attacked Jews while at prayer.

Anyone has been in Israel knows that Jews are treated completely different than non-jews, in fact, you see people in government discuss openly about arabs being a demographic threat. When a state can talk about a segment of its citizens as a demographic threat then you know you are in a racist state, that creates "jewish only" neighborhoods. East Jerusalem belongs to the Palestinians, the ENTIRE world believes this - it is only Israelis that are in denial.

If there was sincerity in the Israeli people, they would not stand by the Netanyahu-Lieberman-Ultra Orthodox coalition. They would be promoting ways in which Israel can disengage from the occupation. They would be reacting to the abuses of the settlers and the IDF. They would be considering how to strengthen the Palestinian economy so that Palestine can become a viable, governable, prosperous nation-state.

Have you ever asked yourself why the Pals have accepted the US as a broker? Apparently, despite everything, Pals have more faith in the West, and believes the West to be able to deliver where its Arab "brothers" can't. In my view, the fact the Pals accept the US as a broker reflects much more poorly on the Arab/Muslim world than it does of the West/US. Ironically, the Pals can't rely on Muslims/Arabs for well... just about anything; this shows that as much as they love to hate the US, they know its the best chance they have. The beauty of course, is as much as they criticize the US, they are implicitly saying the Arab/Muslim is even worse (since they're sticking to the US rather than shifting gears Turkey-style)

Israel gave many a territory to the PA. It has recieved nothing either. Not sure why anyone should have any incentive to play. Perhaps you don't have a job and have time to play but no one wants to play with you; so you through comments right and left. Draft something wiz! Talk something productive! Stop talking like an authority and you will find a hansom boyfriend.

The Netanyahu-Lieberman-Ultra Orthodox coalition.is there because so many Israelis are convinced that the outside world is composed of Tonys and Natalies who will never be satisfied until Israel is destroyed. in fact, if far away Tonys and Natalies think that way, what do the Arabs next door think. So keep it up, Tony and Natalie. You can do your little bit to support the Netanyahu-Lieberman-Ultra Orthodox coalition. Just remember, when that coalition impedes peace and causes misery to Jews and Palastinains alike, just a little bit of the blame lies at your doorstep.

There are no neutral or unbiased parties.

Libya and Iran? When pigs fly, dearie.

What is there left to negotiate that has not been negotiated in the last 20 years? Justice is clear to the overwhelming majority on the planet. Power is addictive and addiction leads to suicide. It is stupid to pick an eternal fight with 2 billion people on this planet.

who want a final offer with clearly defined borders. It seems like you are telling us that you are the only one who wants peace. Or is that really what you want? Critic u have given in an abaundence. Time for you to explain yourself.

If the world had not been pumping billions of dollrs/euros etc. into the so called Palestinian refugees/Fatah/Hamas, etc., the problem would have been solved by now. I cannot say if there were 2 states now or one binational state, but the situation would be much healthier because if both sides understood they can rely only on themselves, they would be much more reasonable responsible.

unfortunately, they will be dragging the rest of the world in it with them. I would rather avoid WWIII if possible. It seems we need either, a two state solution agreed to by both sides, or a two state solution imposed on both sides, or a one state solution which will ultimately be the demise of a Jewish state, but will continue to be Israel.

Abbas needs the USA because he has no bargaining position because Israel has control and all the power; Israel needs the USA to deflect world opinion, veto UN resolutions, and minimize deligitimization. So what are you complaining about?

Much less than learned what are these demands you rant about. Or is your forte confined to relentless yapping.

Much less than learned what are these demands you rant about. Or is your forte confined to relentless yapping.

Israel didn't act in a military way until Israel was attacked.

just say the truth you want their land and want them to go to jordan

First it was the terrorist/freedom fighters Irgun et al, then it was the war of independence, then the 67 war, the first modern day preemptive strike etc. The state of Israel has fighting coming out its pores.

Israel attacked - in addition, the current government wants to put troops on the border of Jordan and any future Palestine, what kind of state would that be? What state would allow that?

the only power arabs have are petrodollars and you will see those disappear in the next 10-20 years. Then there will be peace. Until then, arabs have everything to lose and Israel has everything to gain.

and they wont give the pals beans. RELEASE SHALIT IMMEDIATELY.

and you should know also that being a Christian in an explicitly jew state makes you a second class citizen, and who are you to dictate what should and should not be on the table? In addition, what kind of state has neighborhoods and communities for "Jews only" what a perversity of humanity that is.

Abbas can't function anymore as a leader everyday a different story he has lost it he is lacking in motivation. Israel will have to wait for a new leader with guts to make difficult desisions.Someone who can act and reach a conclusion someone who can make up his mind.

Sam According to UN Res. 181 Israel is a Jewish State.

Do you know how many Christian Palestinains have been run out of town by their own Muslim neighbors? Why not educate yourself before commenting?

Why not educate yourself with a visit Jane, rather than preaching your unfounded views as fact?

The entire land of Israel is for the Jews. Everybody else is a tennant, a visitor or a trespasser.

Christian arabs are moving out into Jewish areas to escape the hasseling of their muslim brothers.

Catholics have as many rights as Jews in Israel. They won and rent many facilities. Most Pals are not Christians, they are Muslims. Stop lying, if you are able.

...unless Israel allows it. But then again the Palestinians don't really want a state, so if that's what you mean you are correct.

Palestine cannot exist without Israel allowing it to and Israel can NEVER and will NEVER have peace unless Palestine allows it - Israel knows that its existence will always be in question because of this reality, it will NEVER be a normal state in the world WITHOUT Palestinians allowing it - this is a fact. Palestinians do want a state, but not like the Jews, that want a state ONLY of Jews. who in this century still THINKS that way? A europe without jews, or only of Aryan is a dead idea, and so is this one, this land has NEVER been ONLY one or the other.

"Palestine cannot exist without Israel allowing it to and Israel can NEVER and will NEVER have peace unless Palestine allows it"...which also means the Pals won't have peace either...the count: Israel -1...Pals -2...nobody wins...everybody loses.

why should Palestinians leave? It is there homeland, and they won't leave- -Ramallah, East Jerusalem, Jericho, Hebron, etc will stay with all of its Palestinians - this is a fact, real peace needs to come or else Israel is condemning itself and all of its future generations to remain in a state of war, no one knowing what it feels like to be normal- if anything, only an enemy of the jews would want this - so in many ways, Adolfs legacy lives on to this day.

"It is funny that Israel cannot even SAY that Palestine will be an independent state" What about all the times the Palestinians rejected Israel's offer of an independent state? Israel has said there will be an independent state several times, including Netanyahu. Do you find it necessary to lie to make a point? What are you the master of? Bullshit?

How is Hitler related to the subject when the Zionist dream of Israel began in 1880 and came into a near full reality before WW2? The holocaust hastened that dream, true, but it definitely didn't create it. There is no 'right of return' and no such precedence exists in the world. Arab citizens of other states are still considered refugees including their newly born children. Such a thing never happened in the world. We agree to a 2 state solution, but until they can prove to be peaceful the main concern we have is not to let them attack us via armed resistance or rockets from the west bank The only thing that would bring is new conflict with better terms for the Palestiinians, something you probably prefer.

Avi said: "There is no 'right of return' and no such precedence exists in the world. " Then why do the jews believe they have a right to return to wht is now Israel, but was Palestine? The world has taken a dim view of Israel's crime spree that has lasted for 80+ years and the Methodist and Presbyterians just voted to request the governments take action to stop the crimes being commited by Israel.

Jewish settlers and the IDF are the greatest threat to the security of a Palestinian state. To have the West Bank crisscrossed by settlements with connecting Israeli highways traveled by the IDF will undermine a viable Palestine state. That is why Abbas must remain firm on the issues of borders and settlements.

There will be a civil war if there was one state, dopey.

Allowing a 23rd Islamic state to take over and kill us all.

Yes one state called Israel, one state called Palestine, one on West of the Jordan, the other one East of the Jordan river and all living in peace. All Jews will live West of the Jordan and all Arabs will live East of it, in lasting peace and harmony.

this is the final solution - i have no problems with this - anyone who has ever been to Israel and the WB in particular knows that it has to be this way, no two states can arise from this. No space really. we are intertwined together as a people.

What on earth would make you think a one state solution would work. Belgium is dysfunctional just based on langauge differences. Czechs and Slovaks split even without meaningful differences, and Yugoslavia tore itself apart with many thousands dead in the process. Yet, defying all common sense, you blithely say that a "one state solution" is best for all? When two or more ethic groups are competative and have a bitter history, you don't get peace by pretending that the differences don't exist and all you need is one man, one vote. All a one state solution would do is move the conflict from an international one to a civil war, but the conflict would be exactly the same. Why would you wish on Jews and Palastinians a Lebanon free for all?

It controls 78% of former Palestine, 42% of the current West Bank and is working to take full control of East Jerusalem. If things proceed as they are currently there will be one state. Unfortunately, there won't be any Palestinians living in it.

How long are you going to repeat Arab propaganda. It is a total lie. West Bank and Gaza both should belong to Israel.

With that he gets a Palestinian Right of Return to the entire land. Maybe Bibi should embrace the two-state concept with real Palestinian sovereignty and real viability, giving up the concept of right of conquest.

isael will never agree to letinus have our land but we shoul;ld at least get paid for it

If you are not giving up any part of Jerusalem; do you think the Palastinian will do either. You have captured it since last 60 years and they had it for thousand years!!! Bottom line is peace and if you want peace it has to be on just bases. And Israle needs peace more than the Palastinian do.

Palestinians are new to the region, not even 200 years. Brought in as cheap labour. The word Palestinians came from Arafat a few years ago a distortion of the world Pillistines.

Which Palestinians had Jerusalem during the last thousand years? I did not know that they existed all this time. It is really a more recent PR Invention.

The annexation of East Jerusalem was declared ILLEGAL by UNSC Resolution 252 (1968)of 21 May 1968 UNSC Resolution 267 (1969) of 3 July 1969 UNSC Resolution 271 (1969) of 15 September 1969, UNSC Resolution 298 (1971) of 25 September 1971, UNSC Resolution 465 (1980) of 1 March 1980, UNSC Resolution 476 (1980) of 30 June 1980 And yet, Israel defies the International Community.

PA has been offered East-Jerusalem and rejected the offer.

First of all the name Palestine was given by the Romans 2,000 years ago to that area, and its inhabitants were Palestinians, this is a fact. Secondly, the arabs have been there for a very long time, far longer than 200 years! Who were the crusades 600 years ago against? The jews? please they didn't control jerusalem, it was against the Muslim Arabs - read history. Arafat's one major victory is to prove that Palestinians exist, while the Jews beg to have the arabs acknowledge its right to exist, there are still jews who cannot even accept that Palestinians even exist, because the reality is that the Palestinians have always been a problem for the zionist from europe, who in reality are not even semites.

who were the crusades 600+ years ago against? The jews? ha ha it was against the Muslim, who controlled all of that area, in fact, it has been Muslim controlled longer than it has ever been Jewish controlled, the times when jews controlled the land was very brief compared to the muslims, in fact, that land has historically been known as Palestine far longer than "Israel" - in addition, the jews, by their own definition come from africa, they are not native to the Palestine.

My family have lived in Jerusalem since the thirteenth century and are not considered a particularly old family either. I suggest you go to say the Greek or Latin Patriachite in the old city and do some research. Or alternatively look at the Ottomon Empire population surveys. Hebrew University has most of the data.

The annexation of East Jerusalem was declared ILLEGAL by UNSC Resolution 252 (1968)of 21 May 1968 UNSC Resolution 267 (1969) of 3 July 1969 UNSC Resolution 271 (1969) of 15 September 1969, UNSC Resolution 298 (1971) of 25 September 1971, UNSC Resolution 465 (1980) of 1 March 1980, UNSC Resolution 476 (1980) of 30 June 1980 And yet, Israel defies the International Community.

What is on the table? A freaking state for a people who keep whining about being stateless. How many groups ever get such offers, much less get such offers multiple times (only to turn down every single offer)?

Neither Israel nor Palestine should have Jerusalem. It is holy toJews, Muslims and Christians besides being a historical treasure for all the world. It must become an international city governed and controlled by the UN, but at the same time, both Jews and Palestinians can establish their capitols there without any military presence by either.

...or state other than the one of the Jewish people, for more than 3,000 years. Between the years 1948 and 1967 Jerusalem was "cleansed" of all its former Jewish residents, yet the eastern part of the city, under total Arab control, was still not made the capital city of any state or people. Jerusalem will, therefore, remain the capital city of the Jewish people and its nation-state of Israel.

And these UN res. you have listed are all recomandations.

The Palestinians rejected it as such. Under Jewish control, ALL people are allowed to worship there. When it was under Arab control, Jews weren't allowed to worship there. You want to take away the one and only Jewish holy city? How many other "international" cities do you think should be created first?

same w Saudi. same w indonesia same w Iran same w Irak. same w Tunisia etc

That statement applies to the Jewish people prior to 1948. You got your state, let the Palestinians have theirs. It seems most of the whining comes from those who already have a state.

from Bibi to convince you that he is serious? How do you know he is not? What is the outcome you desire? Explain yourself. Don't just spew another critic, smile and say Ahh "another wasted comment of mine. Maybe it will bother someone." Isn't it you who writes that Abbas is not the person to talk too? That it should be Hamas?

Why negotiate when Israel before negotiations says that Jerusalem and the right of return for Palestinians is non-negotiable, oh and the settlements will stay, oh and....

It was said that the "settlements would stay," but where did the ones in Gaza go? Why did Barak and Olmert offer the Palestinians a state in areas where there were settlements? Anti-Israelis are morons.

Everyone can say what they want. Certainly the Palestinians talk a blue streak about what they want. But what they want is guarantees from the US of the final outcome before they'll even sit at a table. Would you negotiate on that basis? I think not. on that bas

SDHD: What don't you leave the epithets out of your postings? They cheapen the exchange.

We don't have to respond to every stupid and excessive demand to jump with "how high".

You have been posting the exact same thing every day for years

what you refer to as "stupid and excessive demands." Are you referring to international law or UN resolutions or Israel's past agreements? Which is it?

You would condone genocide if Israel decided on that in order to preserve its security.

"by "security" netanyahu means a very wide umbrella indeed." Indeed. It's been widely attacked.

Your posts are widely refuted every single day. Haven't you noticed? Not the most observant fellow, are you?

There is a reason that 242 refers to "territories" and not to "the territories". SC 242 doesn't require Israel to go back to the situation prior to '67 nor to does it require Israel to trade land. That is simply the Pals trying to coerce Israel into adopting their demands. To demand this is excessive and stupid.

1) the French draft (the ones used by the Arabs) includes the definite article "the" 2) the English version is written generically because there was a fear that the Palestinians would be able to argue that "the territories occupyied in the recent conflict" would be expanded to include all territory occupied outside of the sovereign boundaries of Israel vis a vis UN 181. 3) Any current negotiation should start from the basis of what both parties are legally entitled to, UN 181 - suddenly the '67 borders look very appealing.

Reading Yakov Sul's posts through the years this much he has revealed he came to Israel and was starry eyed at first. Then he fell on his head and since then he never was the same again Im glad he is in the USA so Medicare can take care ofhim

1. Please inform us of how Abbas has been facilitating terror and if even that forlorn state of Israel has accused him of this. 2.Israel will have to deal with the question of the refugees since it is referred to in the UN resolutions and it is to be part of the discussions. Israel will have to pay so many billions in compensation for their role in causing the naqba. Abbas has commented in the past that he recognises that not all refugees from 1948 will be able to reenter their original homes.

"Please inform us of how Abbas has been facilitating terror" Seen any Palestinian children's television lately? "2.Israel will have to deal with the question of the refugees" Meanwhile, how about some clarification from Abbas about it? That's the point. Anti-Israelis are morons.

Any 'compensation' will be deducted from the compensation the Arab world will pay Israel for expelling 800,000 Jews from their homes. Unlike with the Palestinians the Refugee status doesn't pass to your child least of all if you're a citizen of another state like those in Syria, Jordan and lebanon.

Abbas wants a Happy Ending before he pays for it. That doesn't even work at a brothel. Besides, Abbas has nothing to pay with, nothing to offer. Why does Bibi need direct talks. Abbas should grovel and beg Bibi to talk, not vice versa.

so...it's too much to request Israel cease committing war crimes and violating a host of UN resolutions prior to negotiations commencing? Is it really that hard to understand? Why negotiate with a thief and murderer who has persistently stolen and murdered in the past when negotiations have been attempted? Are you truly that thick?

"Very clear" maps were handed to the Palestinians by Barak when he was in office, and by Olmert when he was in office. Both maps were rejected. So much for clarity in favor of Palestinian excuses.

your name sake was a twinkle in his baba's eye, what you call stealing and occupatation is taking back OUR LAND every grain of sand and every piece of soil and every rock etc. This is hard for you arabs to hear BUT. OUR Covanent with HASHEM is just as NEW as the day it was made by both parties, Time is something HASHEM controlls like it or not. May the G-d of Abraham, Issac and Jacob have murcy on your soul. BTW HASHEM created that too!!!

Sustaioning Brazen's absolutist postion ("every grain of sand is "ours") necessarily negates a "live and let live" two state solution and substitutes the proposition that "the Lord commands us to kill for all of the land." How do religious guys manage to the perverse trick of urging killing in the face of so many religious injunctions against it and then saying that they are carrying out the will of "Hashem"? It's an old question, I know, and perhaps a trite one. But for the life of me, I can't figure it. When you look intensely religious people, somehow you expect a higher level of morality, and it's a shock when you don't even find common decency.

is one of religious zealotry and belongs to the middle ages when the Catholic Church thought god gave them the right to do everything they wanted. You are entitled to your religious beliefs, but you are not entitled to force them on others.

Responsibility involves being accountable for, or having obligations or duties, and acting reasonably. It involves communicating with Bibi .Abbas does not have the ability nor the athority to make a desisions . He finds it difficult to come to a conclusion or making up his mind.

He represents no-one at all. So, engage in dialogue, negotiate, even reach agreement if you like, but don't expect any agreement reached to be binding.

israel controls everything in her country. Arabs can control everything in THEIR 22 countries. And they do a very good job of it. They cannot control Israel.

How do you negotiate with Israel as they continue to expand the illegal settlements every day; any fool can see Israel is not interested in peace since this would mean an end to their greedy land grab, as a result, a decision must be made by the United States and the UN to end this nonsense once and for all.

ISrael expanded into gaza and built and was building at the time , right up until the decided to pull all the way out. So setllement construction means nothiing. Communities and people can be uprooted as was done in gaza. Using that as a pretext not to negotiate is both stupid and results in no state for the poor poor palis. Then again perhaps they dont deserve one with leaders like that. Or are they waiting two years to self declare

This whole mess started because Arabs weren't content with the majority of the land, over 75%, they were greedy and they wanted it ALL. They attacked and they lost. WHOSE greed? WHO are the landgrabbers?

Actually it was more like 45% whcih was offered to the Arabs - who at that time represented 65% of the the total population. Moreover, Israel was offered the most arable land and the costal ports!

Let's cast our mind back to May 15 1948, and look and see where the Haganah was on that day...... Gosh! It's main forces were well inside the territory of the "Arab state", and were driving forward in all directions, and were relentlessly driving the Arab Palestinians - especially the civilians - in the general direction of TransJordan and Egypt.

...agreed upon by the warring Israel, Syrian, Jordanian and Egyptian armies. And since the armistice agreements of 1949 were broken by the Arabs when they initiated the June 1967 Six-Day War, those lines are gone, forever. Indeed, at the conclusion of the Six-Day War the UN Security Council called upon the sides to reach an accommodation of peaceful and secure coexistence in which the lines were NOT mentioned. Also, not mentioned in that resolution and rightly so was the need to set up an additional state in the region and concepts such as "Palestine" and "Palestinians" were not to be seen in that resolution that was accepted unanimously, has been accepted by all the relevant parties to the Arab Israeli conflict and has been the basis for all peace talks and agreements to date between Israel and its Muslim-Arab neighbors.

Israel's sovereign integrity is the same today as it was May 14th 1948.... Israel has never legally annexed ANY territory.

Please correct your address and also add that you are an illegal settler and your opinion is tainted--at best.

Resolution 242 states, and I quote: "Affirms that fulfilment of Charter [the UN Charter, accepted by Israel] principles requires the establishment of a just and lasting peace in the Middle East which should include the application of both the following principles: (i) WITHDRAWAL OF ISRAEL ARMED FORCES FROM TERRITORY OCCUPIED IN THE RECENT CONFLICT [emphasis added] (ii) [...] As Jehduah correctly mentioned the Resolution "was accepted unanimously by [the UN Security Council] and has been accepted by all the relevant parties to the Arab Israeli conflict and has been the basis for all peace talks and agreements to date between Israel and its Muslim-Arab neighbors." Israel's annexation of any territory occupied during the 1967 June War is therefore illegal according to international law. Jehduah's claim to the contrary is a lie. Nasser's (unknown) intentions on the eve June 4, 1967 and Israel's subsequent preemptive attack are irrelevant when it comes to international law.

"Israel's sovereign integrity is the same today as it was May 14th 1948" Meanwhile, no one even seriously talks about those lines. They talk about the 1949 armistice lines, imbecile.

...Jehudah Ben-Israel wrote that is a lie, would you? The discussion here is about the 1967 "borders", nothing more, nothing less. And the simple truth is: the Green Line, the 1967 "borders" have never been borders but armistice lines, broken by the coalition of Muslim-Arab armies who set out to accomplish what they couldn't have done 19 years earlier, to wipe Israel off the face of earth. Any real borders will be established based on UN Security Council Resolution 242, after negotiations and mutual recognition takes place. The Muslim-Arabs, sadly, are not eager to sit down and negotiate.

Judah is partially correct: yes, the 67 borders are actually the '49 armistice line. The ONLY valid, legal borders isreal has are those she declared in her "Declaration of Independence" of may 14 48. Therein, isreal clearly states what its borders are. Oh, and Jehuda, I dont think you'll like those borders as they are the partition plan borders

If the 1948 partition plan lines are so paramount, why is it that no one discusses them with any serious consideration? Why do they only discuss the armistice lines?

The Golan Heights belonged to Israel before there ever was a syria or a damascus. Personally, I can't wait for the UN to declare a 'palestinian' state made from the land of Israel. According to Genesis 12:3 (YHWH speaking to Abraham) "And I will bless those who bless thee, and curse him that curseth thee: and in thee shall all families of the earth be blessed." Now in my book stealing land from Israel would be a curse. So if you want to try to ride out the 'curse of God', go ahead.

The borders of 67 are as outdated as your view. There will be land swaps and new maps. The new Palestine will be one contiguous piece of land.

SDHD Can't we have an intelligent discussion with stooping to the level of name calling?

For years CJ tries to "sell" us a nonsense legalistic point about the idea of soevereignty which does not hold water. Nobody, no part in this conflict is debating about 1947 partition. That is gone. The only political and legal debate is about borders after 67 war. There is noghing else on the table . Do you see any?

Gaza and Judea and Samaria are already separated. It would be easier for everyone to let the Israeli communities stay put but to come up with some joint monitoring and maintenance of the road network. The distances involved are very small. A bit of creative thinking would be a big help here.

No credfibility in a court of law. Grow up.

Your accusation about AIPAC running the WH is as outdated as old socks. Give it a rest. This Whitehouse has Jews around who are decidedly pro-peace and so is the President. Besides, saying the Jews run the world is as old as the Potocols. Sick shit.

Try reading some actual foreign policy analysis you red neck

You can't make an intimate peace with what the world is asking without direct negotiations.....anything short of that is Israeli capitulation before negotiations.

Why oh why do all presidents must have the "I will protect Israel", "Israel is more important than my kids "

because the enemies of Israel and they are many in the Islam world, want to destroy her. As long as USA protects her, she can remain strong. That's the reason. Shalom from Holland

Evidently only Palestinians can have allies in your demented way of looking at things

worth protecting, except for the Nukes in Pakistan, which endanger the world. thats why the world except for turkey and Brazil and Syria are into sanctions against Iran

"Why oh why do all presidents must have the "I will protect Israel" Because the American public is highly supportive of Israel, imbecile. America is the one place which has had a large Jewish population that didn't systematically attack them. The same cannot be said for Europe, Russia, and the Middle East.

sorry.

Bobharis30 AIPAC does not run Obama. If you don't know that by now you've been asleep.

Jane, you are so on target you could be a sniper. Look at how many went with thumbs down. They don't read the papers.

there population seems happy?...

We don't have to unconditionally back you to support you. Like some other Americans I don't like AIPAC because I don't feel that Americans get respected.

Israel will most certainly get nuked in the next 20 to 30 years. America's special relationship with Israel will be far over by then...with or without a peace agreement. American demographics are rapidly changing and the next generations aren't going to have a whole lot of sympathy for a Jewish country that was created in the middle of the Arab world on the ashes of old world European hatred...at best a UN abstention.