Report: U.S. downgrades Saudi arms deal over Israeli concerns
Wall Street Journal says U.S. to sell Saudis 84 F-15 fighter jets in $30 billion deal, but without long-range weapons systems.
By Haaretz Service Tags: Israel news Saudi ArabiaThe Wall Street Journal said Monday that the United States had signed on to sell dozens of F-15 fighter jets to Saudi Arabia, but that details in the final deal had been negotiated to quell Israeli concerns over the possible exchange.
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F-15 warplanes of the Saudi Air Force flying over the capital, Riyadh. |
| Photo by: AP |
Last month, a senior defense source told Haaretz that Israel was trying to prevent the United States from selling new F-15 fighter jets to Saudi Arabia in order to upgrade the 150 F-15s already in the Saudi air force.
Defense Minister Ehud Barak raised the deal in meetings with U.S. Defense Secretary Robert Gates and National Security Advisor General Jim Jones over a month ago in Washington.
It was also reported that Israel made its reservations clear at a meeting in Tel Aviv between top Israeli defense officials and a delegation led by U.S. under secretary of defense for policy Michele Flournoy.
According to the Wall Street Journal report, the Obama administration in fact agreed to sell advanced F-15 fighter jets to the Saudis, however excluding long-range weapons systems as well as other components in order to quiet Israel's concerns.
However, despite the reported Israeli concerns over the weapons deal, U.S. officials speaking to the Wall Street Journal made it clear that Washington did not make changes to appease Israel.
"It's not that Barak swoops into town, we suddenly make a bunch of concessions that the Israelis never knew about before, and they're assuaged," the official said. "There were no refinements, no changes."
The official concluded that Israel had acquiesced to the deal not because of changes made to it, but as a result of Israeli officials having a better understanding "what the configuration looks like."
The report said that the $30 billion, 10-year package came after U.S. officials offered "clarifications" to Israel about the deal, with officials close to the deal saying that, while Israel still had its reservations, it was unlikely to to challenge the sale.
In addition to the exclusion of long-range weapons, according to the Wall Street Journal, the 84 F-15s included in the deal will have onboard targeting systems of the kind the U.S. sells to foreign nations, yet inferior to those in American-used F-15s.
Last month, security sources told Haaretz that if the deal would indeed be completed, Israel hoped Saudi Arabia will receive fewer advanced versions of the F-15 than those possessed by Israel, which seeks to maintain its air force's superiority. "Today these planes are against Iran, tomorrow they might turn against us," the source said.
Israel and the United States held a number of meetings over the past 18 months on maintaining Israel's security standings in the Middle East.
The two sides agreed that neither would surprise the other by agreeing to a military deal with a third party. A senior source in the U.S. administration told Haaretz the United States has promised Israel it would have priority access to any new weapons system and, in some cases, exclusive rights to buy new weapons systems, as opposed to Arab states.
"The administration is conducting open and completely transparent talks with Israel on the matter, and we are updating Israel on any planned deal to hear its reservations," the official said. "We believe that there are many cases in which the Iranian threat commits us to strengthen the ability of states in the region to defend themselves."
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No matter how Israel behaves now, there will be many people who will remain anti-Israel as a result of Israels past actions. Peace will not change this fact, not that there will ever be a peace. In the end, war will decide the fate of the mideast. Israeli politicians know this and this is why they take every opportunity to enhance their own weaponry and degrade the weaponry of other nations in the region. You can't really blame them for doing this, BUT this strategy will be heavily impacted and, perhaps rendered obsolete by the acquisition of nuclear weapons by mideast nations other than Israel. It will still be a war which deciddes the fate of the region, but that war will likely only last an hour or two and F-15's will play no part.
The US may be the guarantor of Israel's continuing existence but it is also a nation with an enormous appetite for oil which the Saudis have in abundance.It cannot afford to be seen to be reneging on commercial deals even for advance weaponry that might be a potential threat to Israel against such a vital resource dependence.
Are the Saudi's actually BUYING these planes? You know, with their own money? Or are they "buying" these planes with Funny Money that Uncle Sam has provided? You know, like some other people we could name.....
And Israel is exempted from that domestic US law in regard to human rights abuse? I guess hyporicy has no limitation!
Then, Israel will turn around, strike a deal with the Saudis and put all the profits in their pockets. Won't be the first time, won't be the last time for as long as the US allows Israel to dictate its foreign policy.
the world? Iran is not allowed to have nuclear activity, Jordan is not allowed to have nuclear activity, Saudis cant by weapons..cmon do jews rule the middle east ?!
Why saudi Arabia buying some toy"s from America which is of no use. While America has already promised other country to keep its advantage. 30 Billion i not small money. Better they sould give this money to charity to African Poor.
Hussien has stopped the sale of weaponry to Israel while approving the sale of offensive weaponry such as F-16s to Egypt and Morocco, and now F-15s to Saudi Arabia whose thugs attacked America on 9/11. Congress should wake up and stop Hussien from being an agent of the Islamist-Jihadist world.
Are you sure, Brod, that it was Saudi thugs that attacked America on 9/11? There is a little matter of some jews with cameras, waiting for the event to take place and dancing up and down when the planes hit.
Is the IAF scared of competing on a level playing field?
To deter Iran by arming to teath Saudi Arabia. I don't like it. It is launching an arm raise, where soon all ME area will be awash with formidable arms. What next , Give SA a nuclear bomb after Iran gets one? Thse arms are definite to fall into wrong hands and to be used for wrong purpose. The plan to pre empively hit Iran is MUCH less risky.
Well, you do have a point in your first statement, but would say your second statement is perhaps a little misguided (sorry)... Let me offer you a third, more effective solution. How about the US stops saying YES to everything Israel demands?? I can assure you, that single stroke would achieve CONSIDERABLY more than arming the Saudis or any pre-emptive strike on Iran!!
Perhaps, you should have taken into consideration the fact that Obama is also donating 3 billion US taxpayer dollars to Israel, more than any other president has "donated" before. That is Obama's plan!
Your point being. One could accuse Israel of war crimes, crimes against humanity and attempted genocide. But Israel doesn't even have to buy their F15's. The american taxpayer donates them.
Is it standard practice to give a third country approval of arms sales in this manner? Do the Saudis get to read the specs of shipments to Israel, Jordan or Turkey?
Proves that if the price of oil drops to $5 a barrel the US will walk away from Israel and the ME.
we should sell them nothing...
How many Jews left in all Moslem countries combined? How many Arabs in Israel and growing? Look up pogroms in Moslem countries to see what happened there.
This demonstrates the "impartiality" of the US in the ME conflict. The fact that Israel may influence US weapons sales to an Arab country says it all. Anyway, the quality of the goods sold is immaterial. It's all part of the post '73 deal betw US and Saudi: you sell us your oil, we pay, you buy weapons and infrastructure contracts from us, you pay our military-industrial complex. Everybody's happy, a few chosen ones get a lot richer.
Saudi has 2 armies. The official armed forces are only their for show. The Ruling family has its own army known as the National Guard. They are better trained and equipped to be able to defeat not only invading countries, but also run down a coup attempt.
please mr aipac--don't hurt me, I'll do anything you want, just don't hurt me.
everyone else just got to hell !!!!
Saudi Arabia brought the world "chop-chop square" - they even practice slavery of blacks TO THIS DAY http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Arab_slave_trade And of course 16 of the 19 terorrists of 9/11 were Saudi. but leftists will clamor for Saudi "self-defense"
One of my nephews, who is ethnically Jewish by any but Israeli standards, was there, defending among other things, the Kingdom. He and the Kingdom came under attack inside the Kingdom. Pull Your head out. Even the Saudis have a right to defend themselves. There were other Americans of Jewish heritage there, too.
After the fighting was over the Saudis pandering to their extremists kicked out the US military Keep ignoring the inconvenient truths
Promulgate their jihadism.Buying people with their ready made MONEY..Very useful indeed to spread their Sunnies that are part and parcel of the Wahhabi idealism.Oh we know who were the terrorists who attacked during 9/11.Yes I too wonder why some are clamoring to appease the Saudis. Money talks and thus continue in their endeavor freely.
the saudis should quit the whole deal, then the us will have time to think if they want to loose a 30 billion injection for their economy in though times or if they want please another country that costs them 3 billion a year...
israel screeeeeeaaaaams at america, lets all cut the middle man (america) out of the talks, their quite useless as AIPAC runs america.
the israel tail wags the american dog
If the Saudi authorities are willing to accept a technically inferior fighter even though they will be paying such huge amount of money, it is a clear indication of the ruling family's selfish desire to please the Americans to saty in power. This needs to be watched closely.
Lets what will happen when a angry prince takes over the kingdom.
The Saudi were able to defeat the Jewish lobby before. I think their influence on Washington is even stringer now. The inferiority are the in weapons system only not the Jets which is the main deal here. The advanced weapons system can simply be purchased at a later date.
This is more about boosting American manufacturing than Saudi defense. The money the Saudis pay for the planes will be kicked back to them in some tricky way that only someone with an economics background will find if watching US-Saudi trade closely. Some suspiciosly lucrative buisness offer some months from now (or ago). More capable planes with any weapons arrangement can be bought from Russia, this is what India and China do (China buys a few and then makes its own knok-off). The Saudis can get more advanced planes from Europe as well, or a combination of Russian planes with European electronics might make for the best cost/capability combination. But this is not the Saudi's intention, no need for Israel to panic. Israel is stuck with obsolete F-15s also, because it doesn't have to pay for them. Meanwhile the US arms itself with the next-generation F-22, a plane the US congress has forbidden to sell to any country because it has the latest technology. The F-15 is a fine plane, just that today the design is obsolete. It's still better than anything Iran has, so the balance of military power in the ME remains as the US would have it. We are all puppets of the superpower here.
what will the saudis do with these advanced fighter jets? will they actually participate in any possible operation against iran?
they buy them cause it puts them under US nuclear umbrella....its a protection racket.....if they really need to have some fighting done they hire out...like the US mercenary army air force in gulf war 1
You probably don't recall. But a few years back, in 1990, the Saudis were invaded and had to recapture some of their own territory. They chose the F-16 instead of the Mirage or the current Russian planes. The US doesn't sell airplanes or allow their sale in anticipation of offensive wars of conquest, not even to you.
the saudis were not invaded. kuwait was invaded. it was in 1991. the saudis were unable to protect themselves in the case of an actual invasion by iraq and hence called on the us to defeat saddam. the united states did so and got terror attacks as a thank you note.
Wrong yet again. On January 29, Iraqi forces attacked and occupied the lightly defended Saudi city of Khafji with tanks and infantry. The Battle of Khafji ended two days later when the Iraqis were driven back by the Saudi Arabian National Guard and the United States Marine Corps, supported by Qatari forces. The allied forces provided close air support and used extensive artillery fire.
maybe because you didn't have any relatives at risk, you didn't pay attention. Saddam did invade the Kingdom, too. He killed Saudis and Kuwaitis and shot scuds at the Saudis and Americans, too. He even killed a lot of Americans with one scud.
Did you know that inspite of all the air0craft they have the hundreds of princes are too lazy to turn up for the maneuvres. They could not care less,they know their money buys everything.No reliance on doung a job if their life depended upon it. Guards my foot...It was the Americans who saved their butts.As for the Qarari forces? oops the lot are same as Saudi useless and TOOTHLESS .
You say:A few years back Saudis were invaded had to recapture etc etc.And used the T-16 planes. okay abut who flew them? now that is more to the point and of great importance.I know differemtlyu as to WHO EXACTLY FLEW THOSE F-16 And wasn't any lazy inept SAUDI PILOT. If you think otherwise you must be very NAIVE .They would never put any of their lif in jeopartdy knowing too,good ole USA will do it for them.(IF YOU ONLY KNEW WHAT I KNOW)?????????
Oh please do not say that,for it is too ludicrous to even mention...My reaction to that is:HA HA HA HA HA OH OH OH !!!!!!!!!
It will/should be used to counterbalance the F15s the IAF have? Now there's a thought!!
how many saudis were involved in 9-11-2001. giving aid to the enemy.
cute bible storie no one believes anymore...you live on xtian superstition and welfare
Israel has no reason to be worried about the deal. The saudis will surely fail to use these planes effectivevely to be any threat to anyboby
They might know how to show off on skies of the capital. But what will they do if they really have to use it in battle. You should see what the soldiers look like. Lazy and beer bellied.
The Saudis as well the rest rich Arab states haver the wherewithal to defend themselves,BUT ARE TOO LAZY to even turn up on the days they are taught how to fly an aircraft..Thet couldn't care less relying on the revenues they accrue their money and the defence from the USA who's interest runs deep and would protect them come what may.Which brings my point of THE MANY PRINCES WHO ARE EVEN TOO LAZY TO TURN UP WHEN MANEUVRES TAKE PLACE.I have it from the horses mouth( a pilot & engineer)who worked in Saudi side by side with the saudis??/ They are a laughing stock ....
Ross, do you realize how by blindly defending Israel and attempting to trash the Saudis, you're making the best case for why the US should totally disregard anything Israel has to say and go ahead with its plans to continue arming both sides of every conflict, as they have done for generations?
The US is selling to Saudis. It is selling the same aircraft to the Iraqis, too. Both are paying in cash, something in short supply in the US, especially since the CRASH.
they also pay in cash to finance anti-western and anti-american terror. indeed, their wahabi ideology is directly responsible for the strike on the us, inluding the strike on the pentagon. the sunni saudi arabia and the shia iran, are together responsible for all terror attacks against us and western interests in the past decades.
Unfortunately the unbreakable/unshakable leeches making the biggest noise do not pay for their military hardware.
israel has provided the united states with intelligence and with many military inventions. israel has trainde us military in anti-terror methods. most importantly, israel provides a buffer zone between radical islamists and europe. without israel, islamic terrorists would have a totally free reign in the middle east and facing europe. the history of wwii proves this point conclusively
Not all Saudis are members of the Royal Family, nor are all members of that family making Saudi policy. Tim McVey was not a product of the US Army. Neither the Uni-bomber nor the Atlanta Olympic bomber were Saudi or Iranian, nor was the DC Sniper. You parrot Sarah Palin really well. But she is an idiot, not to be admired or emulated. Find a new heroine.
and US gets a facefull of garbage in return. Billions to Pakistan gets the USA where?
...will result few if any conversations as Pakistanis are not Arabs. Might one ask how many more billions are wasted on public education with few tangible results, eh Peter?
the entire world knows that there was a terrible terror attack against vital interests of the united states in september 2001. among the targets were the pentagon, hit directly, and the towers of the world trade center. the fourth plane's original mission was to attack the us capitol. these attacks were unified by a specific ideological goal of the radical sunnis. mentioning the unibomber and a few others is irrelevant. they were few in number, unrelated ideologically, and basically loners.
I am sure the American taxpayer will be pleased that Israel pays for things with intangibles, because I am sure that has a great influence in reducing the budget deficit currently being serviced by China.
That is true, unless you are Israel of course! Where they get their cake, eat it, ask for more, and then tell you it wasn't good enough!! And the US says, oh ok sir, sorry sir, right away sir!!
Yeah, along the lines of Pollack.
To Pakistan in the billions with no tangible result toward the USA ,reversing teir energies helping the Taliban instead.
Are more than A GREAT ASSET to the USA. i know(i live there)YOU? the only means you get informations rwegarding it all is through reading from websites and garner from it ,.be it screwed or twisted .You swallow it hook ,line and sinker.Cipora's admition on the intangibles are correct and has continued fro a VERY LONGTIME. That is what I call real friendiship versus the USA who benefits much from Israel in all fields.Be it secret informations,actively producing technical assistence etc.If I may why does the USA both with Israel carry out maneuvres if they find it not IMPERATIVE for the strategic purposes being the ME. Your thoughts are skewed in thinking about monaterily and budgetry.Cipora did not touch on that part.You having run out of ideas deided to bring it up to score bronie points? Well chum it will not do or be considered relevant to the subject at hand. Go whistle in the wind as usual.
Since when are Pakistanis Arab?
I bet Israel is engine behind the U.S. to sell the F-15 jets to Saudi Arabia because it is the wise thing to do.
The sooner the better!
Israeli occupation of USA? What does this even mean...
and AIPAC and associates.....its the worse corruption in US history and is a zionist poilitical occupation
it basically means The U.S Government is an Israeli infested occupied territory.
Jewish donations to political Parties are raised in the USA
Jewish donations to political Parties are raised in the USA
Or how Israel is not allowed to have serious arms deals with China...
ever considered thinking before sloganeering?
ever considered thinking before sloganeering?
A government that was supporting Israel, would not publish anything along these lines to the public, saying: "Oh, sorry, we had to downgrade you because of the Israelis." Come on, this is very cheap, clear and obvious politics, AGAINST Israel. And Reuben from NYC, drifter and the rest, just buy that. Think about the US: What's the point of helping you allies, while upgrading it's enemies ? There are two sides to the coin, you know. You either support Israel, or the extreme Islam.
About the subject of why Israel was not allowed to have business ventures with China.it was during the Bush tenure and the Chinese came on a visit to Jerusalem with complimentry rhetoric but sincere to do business with Israel? And Bush objected fiersly and the project had to be abandoned..Israel still does a lot of business with India et al,but still limitations put upon Israel by its friend USA.
Saudi Arabia and the Taliban share the same ideals, goals and enemies. Why would anyone think to give the Taliban Jets, so why Wahhabi Saudis.
the rest pay with hard cash or oil....and saudi as a paying customer is way better than you with you welfare hand out....it is simply that americans are superstitious about jews and once all the ashkenazi are back to j'lem jesus return....so what happens if he doesn;t return? and if he does guess what happens to you? either way its a very temprory arangement...can see it now: pat robertson tell all the jews to convert or die!
The US government effectively made the Taliban what it is today! The CIA funded and armed the Taliban to the teeth (particularly Osama Bin Laden himself) in order to fight against the Russians in Afghanistan!! Oops!!!