PLO chief: We will recognize Israel in return for 1967 borders
Yasser Abed Rabbo says that in exchange for accepting Palestinian territorial claims, it will recognize Israel as 'whatever it wants.'
By Avi Issacharoff Tags: Israel news Middle East peace Palestinians PLOSenior Palestine Liberation Organization official Yasser Abed Rabbo said on Wednesday that the Palestinians will be willing to recognize the State of Israel in any way that it desires, if the Americans would only present a map of the future Palestinian state that includes all of the territories captured in 1967, including East Jerusalem.
In response to U.S. State Department Spokesman Phillip Crowley's statement on Tuesday night that the Palestinians should respond to the Israeli demand, Abed Rabbo told Haaretz, "We want to receive a map of the State of Israel which Israel wants us to accept."
"If the map will be based on the 1967 borders and will not include our land, our houses and East Jerusalem, we will be willing to recognize Israel according to the formulation of the government within the hour," added Rabbo.
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The Temple Mount in Jerusalem's Old City. |
| Photo by: Gora Berger |
Abed Rabbo continued, "It is important for us to know where are the borders of Israel and where are the borders of Palestine. Any formulation the Americans present – even asking us to call Israel the 'Chinese State' – we will agree to it, as long as we receive the 1967 borders. We have recognized Israel in the past, but Israel has not recognized the Palestinian state."
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He made it clear he was referring to Zionism not Israel. Zionism, lice comminism, fascism etc. is not a nation but a regime.
"Based on 1967 borders" means approximate 1967 borders, not exact borders. Israel may keep settlements that are very close to the border, and appropriate access for religious sites, but not settlements deep inside the West Bank like Ariel, Kedumim, and Male Adumim. It's likely that many Israeli Arabs would voluntarily leave Israel to live in those evacuated West Bank settlements. This is demographically good for Israel. Final border must be as short and straight as possible in order to be secure. Security forces inside Palestine will be NATO. Border area water resources will be managed and monitored under UN authority. This arrangement will either be negotiated or imposed by the UN.
No matter what is promised to Israel, the Arabs will never be faithful in any dealings with Israel or the West...the Koran allows for this since Israel and the West are considered Infidels. Read it for yourself people of the World. Good news is that the God of the Bible promised Israel the Land and it will be so. I promise you that.
What a great offer! Israel gives land for terror and in return the Arabs recognize a Chinese state. No wonder Obama's "peace process" is as dead as a dodo.
What Israel do now that the Palestinians have agreed to recognize it as a Chinese state? Oh, I know! They'd probably want to be recognized as a Martian State or a Greek State or Roman State. Anything but what they should be recognized as: a State of Denial.
Not really, but that is a big concession that Israel already made. Be happy that the Arabs occupy the East Bank of Israel.
They also seem to be occupying the Nile now located in Tel Aviv.
deem appropriate to solve this issue. The scale of warfare must be at least on the same level as the Vietnam War.
Israel ponders the wishes of 300,000 Settlers against Peace. Easy choice. Peace isn't worth annoying the Settlers.
What he's doing is highlighting just how ridiculously superficial Israel's demand really is...and what little significance their doing so would actually have.
He clearly can't say with an honest face that Israel should be recognized and have a right to be a Jewish state
Israelis built a country literally from the ground up. Their portion of the land was the rocky desert whereas the arab portion was lush and green. Jerusalem's holy sites were under Jordanian control and there were "no Jews allowed". There was no "occupation" But this setup was not good enough for the Arabs. They wanted all the land. The 1967 Six Day War changed the landscape. If the Arabs were not satisfied back in 1947 then why should the Jew trust the Arab to go back to a precarious situation. I believe there needs to be a peace agreement but going back to pre-1967 borders will not be my terms of peace.
Oh, imagine the unfairness! How dare the UN giving y'all the bad parts of Palestine. The nerve of those people! Sheesh!
you obviously forget why the united nations was set up for, because most of you keep coming back with "israels land", where are your borders? does anyone in the U.N recognise those stolen borders? (no), one of the united nations aims is to stop aquisition of land by war, and since the U.N was established prior to israels existinence, then israel has no claims to anything post 1948, so your getting a bargain when the pals state the 67 borders, live with it and take it, or you will lose it all, history shows us this time and time again.
If Israel insists on being recognised as a "Jewish' state what then is the biblical basis for settlements in Samaria (think good Samaritan). Samaritanism is not considered part of Judaism. Jews settling in Samaria such as at Shavei Shomeron, would I suspect fail the biblical WWJD test.
... somewhere in the 23 Arab countries produces the first Arab manufactured product of sufficient quality to be successful on the world market. Crude oil and olive wood carvings do not count. Once you do this, you will have advanced sufficiently to recognize that you do not need to demonize and antagonize tiny Israel. Peace will follow.
LOL! The largest welfare state in the world with the fourth largest army and second biggest nuclear arsenal. Y'all are real funny, at the expense of humanity.
I believe from the bottom of my heart, as an Israeli, that if Israel would receive from the vast majority of Palestinians and the rest of the Muslim world an unequivocal sign of peace it would eventually agree to Mr. Rabbo's conditions. Unfortunately the clear representative of Palestine right now are Hamas and there is no point in any negotiations with this group until they agree with Mr. Rabbo as well. That goes for Hizballah, Iran, Syria and, with few exceptions, pretty much the rest of the Muslim world.
The Quran had already stated before 1948 and even 1400 years ago that the sons of Israel would take over the land with force and with unseen power than ever and that God would allow them to have strength, human support, lots of money and war redness. It also stated after which, all this would go away on the right time. Not saying Muslims are better than Jews or the other way around. This is just basic facts of the Quran. Chapter Surat Al-sraa, Quran
Will Bibi then demand that the Pals declare that Falafel is a Jewish dish and created by Jews?
Jewish State is de facto given, even if the Palestinians hate it or do not recognize it. Who cares. Israel is a State of it's own. Palestine will have the same privilege- call it Islamic state of Arab state, who would care. A name says nothing actions and deeds are everything. And acceptance by anyone does not really mean anything. Giving away anything for something so uninportant as a name is a crime against the State of Israel. Why even bother to think this way. ARE we that insecure as to who we are???
I wonder what he meant by "will not include our land, our houses" in reference to a map based on 1967 borders. You can read it as, "No settlements" or you can read it as "We still claim the land and houses that were Palestinian in 1948." This would need to be clarified and, my guess, is then a firestorm would erupt because that gives up the so-called Right of Return.
So called PLO negotiator abed rabbo he does not speak for me or the majority of the Palestinian people
The majority want a state from the river to the sea and nothing in between. No recognition required.
Why is it such a huge thing for Israel if they are recognised as a jewish state or not? Is it not more important to be recognised as a nation? Whats with the huge muslim and christian population and becoming a sekular state? Isn't that what advanced civilisations go for?
The problem is in the extreme religious nuts in Israel who have their tentacles in the government. They want to make Israel an "advanced civilization" just as things were 3,000 years ago! The Israeli Jewish state is going to be shamed by the emergence of a Palestinian SECULAR state!
jews are not just a religion- they are a nation as well. That is what defines our necessity for our own country- and the need for the Palestinians and all of our Arab neighbors to understand that, and to respect that basic right. Just as the persians have a homeland, and the greeks, and italians, and the Turks have one. The fact that the Jews have a common religion and worship one God is a side point. The reason why Israel was chosen by the Jews as a homeland is due to the years of history that we have with that piece of land. We have always known Israel as a home, and during ww2 when we were thrown out of countries left and right, it made sense to resettle Israel, because our people always had a presence there (even if it was a small one at some points) we always considered it our home. Back to the point- when netanyahu says Jewish homeland, he is referring to the nation of the Jews, not a jewish religious homeland.
You mean a Palestinian secular state like in Gaza?
Oh yeah, you're the "Jewish" State. And we STILL intend to annihilate you, even if it takes a few hundred more years. Israel must keep its status as a Jewish (and a remarkable democratic) State at the forefront--but reverting to '67 lines would be idiotic as well as an incredibly dangerous move for Israel.
holy hell and a moving eviction. Israel isn't to be bargained away or traded for terrorists lies. BUILD.
I could see Ahmedi Nejad smiling with satisfaction to the like of you. After all, you are his biggest helper to dig into Gaza's Hamas!
Sorry, Mr. Rabo, but you are five wars, three mainframe agreements, no to mention hundreds of terrorist actions on your part and, what is worse, many civilian Isaelis killed plus 43 years, late. One other thing: It's not the Americans who might present a plan. Should your side show any guts or good will, you'll sit down facing us and start negotiating like a decent human being, not like the the unreliable party you've been up to now.
But it does give your readers who have just been played for suckers by the PLO an important lesson in why Israel can not trust them. More importantly, it proves once again that the Palestinians who loudly denounced offering "recognition of Jewish Israel" for the '67 borders are not really interested in peace - its just a scam to continue Jihad until "final victory" (how's that been working out for the last 63 years?). Obana and Clinton have been exposed once again as fools who have lied (again) to US voters, thinking they could get away with it.
"THIS LINE DOES NOT AND WILL NOT EVER CONSTITUTE A BORDER !!!!!!!!!!"
.... This shows the Palestinians did not really care for the "Jewish State" , or is it? I don't think so. .... The Palestinians say, according to this article, that they do not really care for the "Jewish State", but only for the 1967 border.... Is that so? I don't think so. They know that the 1967 border, without adjustments, is now an impossibility to give back. In fact, they ask the same thing with Hamas who 'would accept' the 1967 border, pure, without adjustments...... Just wait and see if I am not right...meaning we are back to square one.
http://www.nationalpost.com/opinion/columnists/Fourteen+centuries+hatred/3655998/story.html
According to wikipedia "The Congress has singled out the National Post, saying the paper "consistently is No. 1" as an anti-Islam media outlet" http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/National_Post#cite_note-14 dt
for being honest? for not being polically correct? The post is one of the ONLY news groups that calls islam today exactly what it is. It is a conservative paper, committed to journalism at its finest. TRUTH.
Two improbable demands.
that is why the PA made the statement i.e you want to be stupid so can I so there... Bibi was trying to turn the tables on the PA and making them the ones to blame for the collapse of talks bty trying to get them to use the word no... the PA outsmarted bibi and turned the table with another statment which will force bibi to once again say no.. well done PA you play this chess game well
Of course the 1967 borders can no longer be the basis for a solution. But read between the lines man - If its an authorized statement the PLO has dropped its concerns about a major ideological sticking point and said its the borders that matter. It had to be voiced with a demand as well, and I'm sure they will be firm about Jerusalem, but no one believes they expect the '67 borders to be sacrosanct.
If the Arabs had not attacked Israel in 1967, the borders would now those of 1967. And there would not be any 'Palestinians'. The whole world is paying the price of their foolish action. But somehow, the PLO who did not even exist then (otherwise Jordan and Egypt would have crushed them mercilessly) think they won, seeing that they are making demands.
The Arabs built up troops in 1967, but it was Israel that attacked. After the war, Rabin and Begin said they knew that Israel would win any war, and that the Arabs knew it too. The Arabs were behaving belligerently, but they did not have the troops or equipment to attack. They did not attack. It was Israel that launched the war.
The Arabs actions were tantamount to firing the first rocket. They had ammassed troops along every border of Israel (and sent all foreign observers out of the region and closed off all water routes for Israel to recieve help.). If the Israeli's hadn't the intuition and the forsiight to strike first, there would be no Israel left now to speak of. It would be another Islamic wasteland.
Arabs did not attack Israel in 1967. Israel attacked and called it a pre-emptive strike. So please quit telling that same old lie.
on the part of Arabs, blocking sea traffic, throwing out UN observers, etc. Defining the start of a war as the first side that pulled a trigger on a boom boom device is simply not valid. You are wrong.
1967. Israel destroys Egypt's air force FIRST.
There is a slight problem with this idea. In 1967, there was not any country called Palestine. How can Israel return lands to a state which never existed?
"Suicide is painless"
A lot of these comments just assume all kinds of hidden or diabolical motives behind this statement, but really its a good thing. It indicates the Pals want to deal with substantive matters and don't want language to get in the way. Bibi probably hoped that it would, but if he is interested in peace (who knows) it gives him something to hand to the right. In fact it won't really affect how refugees, Israeli Arabs, or even final borders are treated in practice because that all will be negotiated anyway, It just removes one ideological obstacle and puts pressure on Bibi for the next step.
Unfortunately, what is missing in "recognizing Israel" if they go back to the 1967 borders, is that prior to 1967 Israel did not have access to E. Jerusalem and the Jewish Holy sites. All of Jerusalem has been open to Arabs, Jews and Christians alike since 1967. Unless the Palestinians permit access to holy sites by Jews then it is a no go. You can't have it as a one way street. Two sovereign states have to operate borders in an open and democratic manor for economic trade and tourism etc. to function. Only then will the idea of two sovereign states side by side in the region work. All sides also have to renounce violence and especially terrorism. Just going back to the 1967 borders is a simplistic solution without commitment.
Adopt the 1967 border but give Israel long term (150 year) leases on the three largest settlements. The annual lease payments, guaranteed by the USA, would be a useful revenue source for a new Palestinian state
in 2089 we will ask for 2046 border and we will not get it hahaha, we are so screwed up front of the israelis, its horrible
Let the settlers return to where they came from.
All 4.5 million of them.
This is a good base for starting a negotiation about the final status issues. At last the PLO has identified and formulated a demand that is of the same scope, level and importance to the Palestinians as Netanyahu's is to the Israelis.
The reason Netanyahu demands it may be because he can then say: The Palestinian refugees cannot return to the "Jewish state". But the refugee problem has to be discussed as part of the comprehensive peace deal, not as a "trick". For Abbas to recognize Israel as the homeland for the Jews is to demand from him some determination about history. What Abbas knows as a historical fact is that Israel was part of the homeland of the Palestinian people (as they are defined today). The Jewish claim is debated by historians (although I, and most Jews, believe it as a certainty). If Abbas is willing to decide historical claims, he might say: Israel and Palestine together are the homeland for both the Jewish people and the Palestinian people. (Indeed, Judea and Samaria are the historic homeland of the Jews more than Israel proper). But such a historical determination by Abbas will be of no use to Netanyahu. I think Yahoo should reconsider his pointless demand.
Does the PLO really want the settlers? Seems like nobody else does.
Wow...thats a low blow...like i didnt see it coming. Israel needs to negotiate in good faith and get rid of Lieberman...or prepare for another War. The World's frustration is building and the flotilla was just the beginning in my opinion.
abbas is insulting us !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
So the Palestinians will eventually recognize Israel as a Jewish state. So why all this talk of never recognizing Israel as the Jewish state.
I can't believe this is still unresolved. Both states need to stop bickering. Israel, quit expanding beyond your borders, Palestine, quit being a wuss and enforce it. If you guys don't behave the US will be happy to go in and do it for you.
what is next pre 1967, will the PLO then say we want pre 1948 borders? no other country has given land (1957 &1973) for peace and Israel still does not have a lasting peace. If not in my days then in my grandchildrens life time.
As a firm believer in democracy, it makes no sense to me that any Western government would support a two-state, religiously-centered compromise. The entire region should be one state, or else there will always be enmity and mistrust.
Democracy is an illusion, it doesn't work, we are a prime example of this (US). We are a democratic republic yes, but the democratic part is representative, with checks & balances, not a true democracy. The US will support anything that works in ada
You call yourself a democracy? Prove it!
The PLO already gave this during Madrid and supposedly later during OSLO. In truth the PLO never changed their charter to destroy Israel, never gave up terrorism and will not change EVER. There are no 1967 lines, only 1949 armistice lines which are not borders and never were.
Actually, we are talking about recognizing Israel as Jewish State.
What games are you playing? Save it for someone more gullible.
They need some place to park their $2.4 trillion foreign reserves. Why not adopt Israel?
he can't even say thet Israel is a jewish state he must camoflage it with vague words like whatever ways you desire. but first you give us this and then we will change our mind. and why is america drawing up a map of anything. rabbo first of all part of what the talks are all about are what borders will look like. all of a sudden you jump to the end of the negotiations and think your smoke screen of words actually mean anything. the recognition of Israel as a jewish state is not a bargaining issue it is a fact and all that is being asked is that you admit to something that is. whether you ever admit to it or not means nothing other than you finally accept reality.
The United States and other European nations after WWII re-drew boundaries in the middle-east. The US GAVE the Jews a home, the Jews didn't win it. So in a way, it is a little project of the United States. Be thankful. :)
As the US wasn't an Ally until 68 when we stole a Soviet Mig and gave the intelligence treasure to them. Before that they placed an embargo on Israel. How does it feel to know you were literally crushed by so many wars you initiated with superior tech and multiple fronts when the only side supported by a super power, was you? I guess I can understand the Arab mind protecting you with denial.
Netanyahu should now counter with "95% of the W.B. land and all of Gaza, replacement territory for the other 5%, East Jerusalem in a condominium arrangement with Israeli sovereignty over the Wall, shared, international or "Holy" sovereignty over the Temple Mount; no general "right of return" (just family unification up to 10,000 people, that's it).
Israel should be a secular state if they are truly looking for peace.If the Palestines want the 1967 borders they already have a map that they know is unacceptable but I think it reasonable for Israel to provide a map, at least for continued discussion.
Is PA saying that in order for it to recognise Israel as a Jewish State, it wants its territories to be re-occupied by Egypt and Jordan (since that's what 1967 border map was all about)? Odd. The Palestinians cry occupation on one side and yet crave for an occupation (similar to 1967) on the other side. A question: why didn't President Abbas accept former PM Ehud Olmert's offer (since it was quite near the borders of 1967)? And now PA comes up with this silly counter-offer? It's weak, very weak political argument and trade...
That's not what they want.
abed rabbo isnot representing me and any one in plalestine so he can say what every he want and we are not going to accapt that and what about the palestinin inside israel 1.2 million ?
This is the best answer Abed Rabbo could have given, I just don't know why it took 43 years to come up with it. Fight fire with fire. Let us see how they respond. I applaud you Ameer for your 62 years of holding the fort on behalf of the rest of the Nation of Palestine. But this is a start in the right direction.
Ameer, How many more years do you want to suffer and for what? Today it's Israel, tomorrow Hamas and the day after Iran? I believe that once a peace agreement is achieved, the people on both sides will learn to respect each other as people not enemies. Everything else can be changed with time once your life become normal.
The new Palestine on the East Bank.
I think they and every other Western Palestinian will wait and see to make sure the country doesn't collapse before renouncing their citizenship. I'd be willing to bet about half of the Israeli-Arabs will keep their citizenship even with a stable state next door. I think they'd rather enjoy one of if not the best standard of living in the Middle East for Arabs than throw out their passports.
It is possible to legislate and implement a comprehensive transfer of Arabs on the western side of the Jordan River to Palestine: the eastern bank of the Jordan.
1. Admission To The Arab League. 2. No further Anti-Israel statements at the UN. 3. Israeli Membership in OPEC. 4. A Permanent Seat at the United Nations just like Russia or China. I'm sure I can add more to this list later.
Doesnt matter what the palestinians do or say, the zionists will just keep coming back with more demands and it will never be enough. Clearly, the only solution is an imposed one.
you think israel is going to get a permanent seat in the united nations? in terms of this debate, which i support both israel and palestine because i support humanity and peace, that is the most ridiculous thing i have ever heard!
Israel demanded a certain recognition which was technically feasible but politically suicidal, from Abbas/Pals. Pals demand a border designation which is equally technically feasible but politically suicidal from Bibi/Israel. There's an appropriate symmetry, and it shows cleverness by Palestinians to avoid being blamed for alone roadblocking negotiations. Your four items are beyond the capability of Palestinians to deliver, so they neither suggest a way forward nor spotlight who is the reluctant peacemaker. So what's the point? Just saying it is all wishful thinking and the recognitions and borders arguments just highlight the futility of the process and how far they are from substantive deliberations?
Seriously, this was ironical, it imitates your vision of things. All Israel ever wants is peace. And when I say peace, I say free selfish peace, without giving anything in return other than peace. A small price, still yes. 1967 borders, uh... no.
At least back to the 1967 borders. But in reality, the borders should be as was decided by the UN when it divided Palestine into two, prior to the creation of the state of Israel. These are the TRUE borders.
A nation attacked at least twice and under constant bombardment for years must have defensible borders.
A nation that has been occupied and still is for the past 60+ years also deserves a state with defensible borders. If what you say makes any sence, then Lebanon, Syria, Iran and Egypt have every right to occupy Israel and claim that they also must have defensible borders, because Israel has attacked these countries more than at least twice.
but military presence only, no civilian housing. Building civilian housing has nothing to do with defending one's borders.
My money says no way Moshe is your real name. Unless of course you were part of a group who made a relatively recent trip to Iran!
Will someone teach this "Palestinian Authority" negotiations 101?
about israel. asking the palestinians to recognize israel before any talks have even started. where is your mind, buddy? i love 'em both. let's root for both sides together!
Yes the PLO can have the boarders of 1967, as long as they remain as they are now.
we were waiting for your advice
Why is this so difficult to see/understand for the majority of the Jewish population of Israel? Just another example of the blindness of the perpetrator. And like it was said a few months ago; Hhere is that famous Jewish brain..?
Israel please agree to this and the whole world will support you.
Israel please agree to this and the whole world will support you.
The israeli/Palestinian conflict will only be solved by imposing a peace treaty followed by disengagement on the U.S. side. It does not make sense for America to have presence in many Arab countries and be friend to Israel at the same time. There is something wrong there and the current administration is getting to recognize it. It is never too late to disengage from full unquestionable support to Israel. Time has come for a real change for the sake of Free America.
I love the fact that it makes sense to you for the US to drop Israel as an ally because they are at the same time working with Arab countries as well. Excellent diplomacy. Anyhow, the US obviously knows who they can and cannot trust. As said before, Israel is Americas one and only real Ally in the Mideast, and probably worldwide. Youshould probably keep to making cheap furniture. Thats what you guys are good at.
it is beginning to recognize! As for being an Ally ... is that a joke??? Israel is only bringing the US down in its International Stature and sucking up the tax dollars of Americans across the country!
Its not going to help anything to force the parties to coexist.... that is exactly what is already happening. (imposed solution is the cause of most of the conflict as it is.)
Yasser Abed Rabbo said that the Palestinians will be willing to recognize the State of Israel in any way that it desires, if the Americans would only present a map of the future Palestinian state that includes all of the territories captured in 1967, including East Jerusalem.
Thanks for another well thought out comment Tony (read: wth are you talking about?) Historically, the Palestinians have multiple mouthpieces that represent small crosssections of their people. Yasser Abbo may say this, but then Abu Mazen will come out after the deal is done and say" I never agreed to those terms", and Hamas will come out and say the same thing.You can see the same thought process by many different posters on this site saying the same thing- that they would never agree to this. Until the Palestinians get their acts together and come up with a real leader, and a real mouthpiece for the entire palestinian people, this is NOT A REALITY. Please start to learn the facts
The Bibi netenyahu game then, one says one thing the other says another, Barak says a third, and Peres....
Unlike the Palestinian leaders, all Israeli leaders talk about the necessity of peace. EVERY ISRAELI LEADER WANTS PEACE (maybe there are 1 or 2 crazies that I cant speak for- but they are the VERY clear minority). All Israeli's want peace. The only itemsthat Bibi, Barak, Lieberman, Peres and the rest of the Israeli Govt argue about is what concessions we need to constantly make in order to keep the Palestinians from trying to kill Israelis. Not what concessions we need to make in order to bring about peace, because we are all aware that peace is not a known concept in the Palestinian braintrust and people in general.
This is non kosher baloney. Not edible! Who speaks for Hamas? In any case Israel won't give up E. Jerusalem so it is a tongue in cheek offer. Israel does not need meaningless recognition from some of the Palestinians. It won't mean anything until there is a peace agreement with all Palestinians and then it comes for free.
East Jerusalem has never been located in Israel. You may want to check International Law.
Get lost or should we help you?
It doesn't belong to Israel. It is an international city.
International city? belong to whom???? Parts of jerusalem belong to Israel and the east part belong to the Palestinians.
Yet on the same day, Erekat declares that at no time will the Palestinians recognize Israel as a "Jewish State". Surely the many Marxist globalists that are of Jewish descent see no issue here, but then, in the long run, they see no Israel either.
Contradictory and judging the issue. I know BB is asking for recognition of a Jewish State but I hope it is a sort of political PLOY,.But it should never be on the table ever.If they persist in their demands,then thought,!For Israel is there,like it or not.
You want Palestine to recognize Israel as a Jewish state? OK, You have just received Palestine's affirmative reply. Now: PUT UP OR SHUT UP!
Substance has nothing to do with it. He and his gang will simply pull out another dirty trick from their bag of lies and distortions and give that out. There will always be a qualifier. Israsel is a nation that has a collective memory of rejection and contempt shown to it for most of its history. They have internalised that sensibility and of course it has been exaceebated by the horror of the Holocaust. Given this reality, trust is almost non-existent and peace becomes a security risk under any circumstances. That is why a solution must be imposed.
There was not a blink of an eye before senior PA emphatically rejected Bibi's proposal,.. and said they would NEVER recognize a Jewish state.
There was not a blink of an eye before senior PA emphatically rejected Bibi's proposal,.. and said they would NEVER recognize a Jewish state.
Didn't the great zionist leader say that he was in favour of a two state solution? What did his henchman lieberman say in the UN. Didnt those illustrious rabbis of Shas come out and say absolutely no to any further settlement freeze, but then their seocnd in command piped up and said the opposite. Look in the mirror for god's sake. The Palestinians don't and shouldnt give a damn how the zionists demand to be viewed. Thats the zionist argument that they still have not settled. Don't lkay it at the feet of the Palestinians.
well spoken. back to 1967 borders !!! back to 1967 borders
Why did the English version omit the reaction of MK Zhalaka (Balad)? The ISRAELI MK called on Rabbo to resign and if not asked the PLO to fire him. He stated that Rabbo has no right to "sell" the rights of the Arabs in Israel and to have the PLO give approval to the obliteration of their rights by recognizing a Jewish state. Rabbo has no right to give up the rights of the refugees and to estrange himself from the Palestinian narrative". No wonder Israelis are nervous, mistrust the Israeli Arabs and demand a loyalty oath.
MAPS are for the negotiating sessions, and make no mistake, there will be land swaps...everyone has already agreed to that in principle...when rabbo says, a return of "our land", "our homes", this is more of the same usage of slippery words to seek a right of return....ITS NOT HAPPENING. The fact that he cannot even bring himself to say that they will recognize israel as a JEWISH state is really quite telling. Israel should act in good faith as they did on the first freeze, and again agree to halt construction for a period all can agree to, with the provision that the palestinians recognize israel now and forever as a jewish state, and then outline what it will give in the negotiations to follow. If the pals are unreasonable, ok, fine, no state. The fact is, there WILL be land swaps in any future deal. What is really interesting is just 2 weeks ago, abbas said, publicly, that in any future palestinian state, no israel civilian or military presence would be allowed...military, ok, they can say that, but no civilian israelis allowed in a future palestinian state? why? isnt that ethnic cleansing? why didnt the US have something to say about that? Why didnt catherine ashton say something? is there a double standard at work here?
He said no to Israeli presences, He did not say no Jews in Palestine. He said no Israeli soldiers and civilians (settler citizens of Israel).
Rabbo's statement is no different than Netayahu's statement. With regards to Israeli's in the West Bank, are they willing to pay fair market prices for the land that they have stolen, or is it "finders keepers, loosers weepers"?
settlement blocks that are exchanged will OFFICIALLY be considered a part of israel going forward, and land from inside israel will become part of the new PA state. If you want to get into compensation for refugees losses, that goes both ways...as in jews too being compensated for lost lands, business, assets, art, homes, etc,,from all arab lands they were kicked out of... get it observer????
settlement blocks that are exchanged will OFFICIALLY be considered a part of israel going forward, and land from inside israel will become part of the new PA state. If you want to get into compensation for refugees losses, that goes both ways...as in jews too being compensated for lost lands, business, assets, art, homes, etc,,from all arab lands they were kicked out of... get it observer????
Buying land in the West Bank is no different than buying land in Switzerland or France. A buyer, a seller and money.
Did you know that the land will be forever owned by the Israeli government? They simply lease it to individuals for their life time. This is to make sure that the land could not be purchased out from under them by Arabs. There was no purchase. There was an invasion, the land was stolen, and is now being leased to Israelis.
The land bought is Switzerland or France is not confistacted and sold by force. and the seller is the original owner... not the neighboring forces of occupation and dispossession.
Not letting Jews live in a Palestinian state might on the surface look like ethnic cleansing but we have all seen what the Jewish settlers are capable of doing. Maybe a Loyalty Oath is the answer, something that will safe guard the state but not offend either religion.
Because I have many Israeli and American Jewish friends and guess what...they don't know the answer!!!!!!! Do you want it to be majority ethnic Jewish? Do you want a Halakha administered state? Forget the Palestinians and Israeli Arab Muslims...what about the other non-Jewish minorities (ex: Africans, ex-Soviet non-Jews, Druze, etc...)? Plus you say now and forever...this is complete bollocks! No one can guarantee the demographic nature of a country in 10 years, let alone 100 and let alone forever!! The only way to safeguard such a future is by giving up democracy, and that is the only thing keeping Israel popular in the West (the fact that it's a democracy). If Israel loses the West's support then the future is bleak. So you may want to rethink some things.
If land in the W.Bank is bought why the IDF troops and occupiers?!?!?! Some people on both sides of this conflict are just purely irrational
When you "buy" land from someone who doesn't have ownership of authorization to sell said piece of land, you are still stealing. Palestinians are still getting evicted by settlers, even those who had their supposed land claims and deeds determined as forgeries in Israeli courts.
a buyer, a seller, and money, and an army enforcing the rule of who is allowed to buy and who is forced to sell
if a frenchman buys land in Canada, does it become a part of France?
Lately the Palestinian side has been making all the right positive moves. I am a touch, dare I say, encouraged? Maybe the two states thing is not dead in the water after all. We'll see.
Everyone not just the palestinians, but even the Lebanese and the rest of the Arabs recongnize israel, we cannt delete israel or eliminate it! this is not our goal. The problem is we want israel to commit to its 1967 borders. All the occupied lands are not internationally recongnized by anyone not the US nor the EU and no one else! it is israel who is cauing all these problem, just give back lands to its people thats all we ask for! stop stealing land!
i think you leave in parallel reality. Besides Egipt and Jordan non of the Arab countries officially recognized Israels right to exist. Please show me the documents that shows Israel as recognise country. So far no PLO nor Hamas nor Lebanon nor Iran........
It's such a shame that the Arabs were not willing to recognize those very borders from 1948 to 1967, and create a Palestinian state then.
This demonstrates the good faith of the Palestinians. Now it is time for Israel to commit to borders. However Israel will again try to create another destraction. It is time for Israel to stop the deception.
the indians in the US want their borders redrawn, as do the mexicans in regard to texas, the kurds in iraq/iran, the chechans in russia...etc etc etc.
The ME narrative has been totally inversed from the truth....and you all know it, but your jew hate just wont ever allow you to look at the facts of the 20th century and the middle east objectively. Its always easier to blame the jews eh colin? Maybe if the arabs and their eurotrash friends would have been honest all along, we would not be in this mess. Your european infused guilty support for these jihadist fleabags is PRECISELY what has prevented peace. Jews defend themselves, and arabs enlist stupid jew hating europeans to the amoral jihadi cause...and now you get morons like elvis costello and roger waters and its now cool again to hate the jews...wow, what a mess europeans are...so bloody entitled post wwII and now western europe, namely france and germany are moving towards russia and away from a truly moral center....next up? the islamist country of the united kingdom, the islamist country of the netherlands, the islamist country of belgium, and of course, the islamist countries of sweden and finland. What a mess you people are in....hahahahahaha.....I love it. And lets not forget the ever hateful, ever angry, ever disgusting irish who didn’t have the stomach to oppose hitler when it counted….so they remained neutral wink wink…typical irish scum….and the joke of it all? Their not even irish…there’s no such thing! Ireland is really just England….but shhhh, don’t tell them..they may bomb your grandmother on her way to the market. Israel is a free, democratic state, treats its minorities better than ANY european country, is fully recognized by the UN, and ALWAYS HISTORICALLY WAS THE HOMELAND OF THE JEWS. DEAL WITH IT!
i think you just showed your ignorance there amig on so many fronts how can you say that palestine / israel is the historical homeland of the jews and always ahs been when your claim to the land arises from " god" giving it to abraham and his descendants in your holy books , the same books that recognise that it was the land of canaan / surely then your holy books actually recognises the land to be the homeland of the CANAANITES anyway claiming land because your holy book says its yours and not the property of the people who actually live on it be it 3000 years ago 40 years ago or 60 years ago is a flawed concept. if my holy book of edd says i own saudi and all it oil does that mean i do even tho i ahvent been there for 200 years. i do think everyone recognises that the jewish people have a historical relationship with " the holy land" but almost eveyone also accepts so do the palestinians , be they canaanites or not
jews have always lived in this land...and yes, so have pals lived in certain parts...but as you KNOW, the jews accepted this in 1947, the arabs rejected it. case closed.
there are valid historical claims other than the Bible. It is common knowledge. But if you're still unsure, maybe you can find some Canaanites to give the land to. Good luck with that.
Did you forget to insult any body in your hate speech? Regarding the Irish, many have tried but none have succeeded in conquering it. All comers get assimilated because of its charm and wonderful culture. It's an Irish thing, you would not understand.
Yasser Abed Rabbo anyway sooner or later will try to take it back all. After all, they do not recognize that we have thousands of years of history in that region. I wouldn't bother to make peace with them as long as they do not take us seriously.
how about all the russian, ukrainian, polish, american, moroccan, yemenite, iranian and ethiopian jews who live in israel? have they always been there? in that case.. why do they look so different from one another? the jews who never left palestine are the Samarites only. not the invaders who constitute the majority of this fabricated society you call Israel.
Yasser Abed Rabbo anyway sooner or later will try to take it back all. After all, they do not recognize that we have thousands of years of history in that region. I wouldn't bother to make peace with them as long as they do not take us seriously.
most eurotrash dont want to accept certain truths, for example; why the PLO was formed as a terrorist group in 1964, 3 years BEFORE there were any occupied or disputed territories. What were they established to LIBERATE in 1964????? Do your homework..if you want to have an opinion about the middle east, then do your proper homework...but talking here endlessly while you remain ignorant of the facts is disgraceful. I call it anti semitism...but oh no...dont overuse that term!
When my comment on the JbHur is written, his post has 69(!) supporters versus only 30 opponents. Now, this is about the most idiotic post I have ever read on Haaretz. Before 1964, indeed before 1988 (when the PLO recognized Israel's right to exist), ALL of Palestine west of the Jordan river was considered by the Palestinians to be "occupied" (by Israel and Jordan). So anybody who agrees with the notion that before '64 there were no occupied territories in the Palestinian view is either a total ignoramus or a true idiot. He certainly does not belong to the intelligencia. Is the Haaretz reputation based on some falsehood, or does it only refer to the printed version?
What do you call Irgun and the other Jewish groups formed to fight the British and Arabs? Oh yes, they were 'freedom fighters'. To the rest of the world, they were terrorist groups formed BEFORE the state of Israel existed. So they weren't there for security. See, it works both ways. Perhaps you should do your homework as well. Check out the King David Hotel, which those brave 'freedom fighters' blew up in 1946 killing 92 and injuring almost 50. Israel's have much innocent blood on their hands.
The only way this conflict will ever end is if Arabs are willing to sincerely recognize that Jewish people are indigenous to the Middle East and they have rights to live there on a fraction of their historic land, un -dhimmi-fied and unterrorized. Otherwise the conflict will continue, and peace will only be a momentary illusion. The Chinese state comment is just a sarcastic remark showing that so such serious recognition is even being considered.. and any "peace" this farsical process yields will be followed by bloddy and costly WAR>
no the chinese remark just shows how contemptuous was netanyahus original request
no the chinese remark just shows how contemptuous was netanyahus original request
By recognizing Israel as a "Jewish" state, you've just made the Palestinian population within the green line a "threat" merely because it exists. If such a "right" is recognized, what would constitute as a violation of that right? Palestinian babies?
It's going to come down to a straight choice between Israel and Yesha and when that happens there can only be one loser. Israel will ultimately betray the settlers.
Maybe it's bad timing, but isn't this what Israel has been asking for? Isn't it time? Desalination and endless drone flights and then withdraw (if you do I promise to send money and come visit- and I won't be the only one). Please take me back Israel- I want to love you again. We all do. Don't you realize how strong withdrawal will make you?
Tomorrow ? Which one will deliver??
This seems to be upsetting you Pete. Doesn’t worry, Netanyahu will come up with something else in a day or two.
Since the PA won't sit at the table with Israel to discuss these issues, they might as well continue to negotiate through a public spat in the media. As a counter-offer, the Israelis should present a map of Israel with the territorial exchanges, the Jewish settlements in the West Bank for territory on the Israeli side of the green line (maybe including the Liberman plan of redesignating Israeli Arab villages into the future Palestinian Arab State). That will force the PA to explain what's so sacred about the green line today, in 2010, that wasn't important in 1949. There is the added benefit that negotiating in public this way avoids the double-speak that the Arafat era was notorious for. In 2000, all of a sudden, the promises that Arafat made to the West and Israel came in direct conflict with the promises he made in Arabic to the Arab/Muslim world and the Palestinian people themselves. Negotiating this way means no surprises for anybody.
Israel is basically dishonest and bent on stealing as much land as possible. Present your future state map and the Palestinians will recognize it. Israel is not willing to recognize its own freeking borders. Cheats.
Rabbo is saying that the PLO will give up the right of return and abandon Israeli Arabs to their fate as second class citizens in an apartheid state in return for the 67 boundaries. But Hamas and the Palestinian street won't accept the recognition of Israel as a Jewish state. In fact, I doubt that Rabbo's offer represents the consensus in the PLO.
Advantage #1: It demonstrates the meaninglessness of Netanyahu's demand. Whether the Palestinian leaders declare to their people that "Israel is a Jewish state", or don't declare it, the wink is there and the people are free to disregard the meaningless (or unspecified meaning) of the declaration. Advantage #2: The reply will continue the delay in the peace talks. All the Palestinians need is a decent delay of 3 weeks, until after the US Congressional elections. After that, Obama will be free to put some real pressure on the Israeli Yahoos so they can recognize reality, as Shamir did in his day.
Are you referring to the settlers?
the two go hand in hand - Bibi might be more "generous" if solid secuirty arrangements are made. How can Rabbo expect such a substantive declaration to be made? especially when, in return, he is merely expected to make a symbolic recognition of israel as a jewish state (ie, no form commitment on anything)?
Since he only wants to talk about security and evades any kind of discussion about borders...
He's more like a PLO thief! He just wants his bonus, and to get that he's willing to say anything you want. No one elected him to speak for the Palestinian people!
How can you recognize a country without knowing its exact borders?
How many other countries have attacked a neighbor, been defeated, then demand their stuff back? That shows a real disconnect with reality.
Its called the principle of 'no title by conquest', and is the reason the territory is formally considered to be occupied.
so there is no penalty for aggressive attacks on another country? hmmm
You might find that rules have changed since Geronimo was wiped from the face of the earth and Lois Riel was hanged for treason.But then again most Zionists have a view different from the rest of civilization,a self imposed entitlement i think . callcalled..
"so there is no penalty for aggressive attacks on another country? hmmm" Yeah, there is: the guy who ordered the aggression tends to end up hanging from a lamp post. But, no, you can't claim "they're comin' right at me!" and then attack first and seize territory off that "aggressor". Which, of course, is what Israel did in 1967.
Rabbo is either trying to confuse the issue, start a war among other nations or both.
You are DREAMING!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!
it means relinquishing land given to us by G-D! The Arab terrorists will use this ploy to expel our citizens from Judea Samaria and use the Foothills as rocket pads to strike at the Heart of Tel-Aviv, Jerusalem! A recognition of G-D's law for terror?! I think not. With this proposition, it is clear that Palestinians do not want peace, they want to exterminate the Jewish people and drive them into the sea! Peace for Peace not Peace for Terror!!!
he gave it all to all of us...gawd said the whole world was mine but would have to share it
i'm reminded of zech. 12;3. there won't be peace until the lord jesus returns. until then, pray and believe.
AMEN, AND HE IS THE LORD WHO DOES NOT CHANGE
Tomorrow?
The peace process is simply a PR game in which Israeli spin is exchanged for American concessions. Peace is not on the menu. This PLO announcement will temporarily disrupt Israels game but we can expect some redirected spin from Israel before the day is out.
israel got a nasty sense of what the pals wanted when they voted for hamas.
you are WAY off, its the other way around. Ingorence must be bliss.
If the Palestinians want peace, why didn't they accept the Clinton plan in 2000 that would have given them 96% of the territories, territorial swaps to compensate for the rest and East Jerusalem? The same offer was presented again by PM Olmert.
This PLO announcement will not disrupt the Durson hatred game and we can expect more redirected spin from her before the day is out.
About the borders there is enough room to discuss during the peace talks. The armistice lines of 1948 can be a start point, but only true flexibility with regard to the further existence of the main Jewish-Israeli settlements as well as possible land swaps will give the Palestinians real prospects of a own state. Furthermore, the recognition of Israel as Jewish state will solve once for all the issue of millions Palestinians refugees and their descendants Palestine (no flood to Israel, at the most to new born Palestinian state). Idem for Jerusalem, which is and will remain the undivided political capital of Israel and home for all three monothistic faiths - in which Palestinians will continue to live and have their diplomatic representation. Palestinians need finally to show courage and pragmatism. That will make them successfull, probably for the first time in their history.
True flexibility with regard to the further existence of the main Jewish-Israeli settlements. The recognition of Israel as Jewish state will solve once for all the issue of millions Palestinians refugees and their descendants. Jerusalem, which is and will remain the undivided political capital of Israel. A true Israel approach. First list all things you insist on, then afterwards offer to negotiate about the left overs. Of course this would work fine unless the Palestinians insist on putting down similar preconditions for any negotiations. But I guess that's where your last comment comes in; “Palestinians need finally to show courage and pragmatism”.
I have to disapont you. After Gaza, that's not going to happen again.
Is somebody actuality in charge or does policy change daily according what the Western media want to hear In English?
Bibi says peace can be done in 1 year and lieberman says 10, which one to believe Pete?
Bring back Hanan Ashrawi who would never have abandoned Palestinian interests just for the chance to be called "chief negotiator." Palestinians need a unified strategy and red lines they do not cross.
1. Will the PLO leadership offer the same in Arabic as they do in English, since they never have before? 2. Is the PLO prepared to remove the "criminal Zionist entity" clause from their charter? 3. Is the PLO prepared to commit to banning the standard Antisemitic teachings from the classroom? 4. If Israel accepts the offer (with minor modifications for population shifts which neither side has an option - parts of Galilee to the new Palestinian State and Settlement Blocs to Israel), is the PLO prepared to formally - and in Hebrew Arabic and English - prepared to commit to fighting Islamist terrorism? 5. Why is the offer being made by a subordinate and not the President of the PA?
and take note of the newest Palestinian school textbooks dealing with both narratives concerning the Naqba. Then look to those used in Israel that are sanctioned by the government. Don't play this threadbare argument of semantics. It is pointless. As for subordnates, go ask netanyahu about lieberman's UN address for starters. This sematics crap has been worn out and is just another trick to avoid the inevitable. Get use to it.
Up to now it has been a non negotiable item. Now the claim it is 1967 exact borders. Now they know the clock can not be rolled back exactly -and the negotiations up to now (from the early days of Oslo agreement) have always been some sort of territorial compromises/swap/etc. So what is now on offer is not even possible to achieve -so basically it is a long wi deed way of saying that the Palestinians will never accept a Jewish, permanent, state -so what has changed? Same message just different presentation. Well we know how good the Palestinians are in double talk on recognizing Israel (eg see repeal of charter & recognition of Israel -requied under oslo and never properly actioned (just smoke and mirrors). Obviously the situation can not be such a problem if you can not even accept, for the sake of peace , to recognize Israel as a Jewish state as is clear from the original UN partition resolution. The original partition stated it and the areas were defined by religious population majority. For all the cries the same rejection of a Jewish state as in1948 is still the same cry but in sheep clothing for CNN. How clever for you , how bad for peace.
that a good caterpillar can't undo.
Up to now it has been a non negotiable item. Now the claim it is 1967 exact borders. Now they know the clock can not be rolled back exactly -and the negotiations up to now (from the early days of Oslo agreement) have always been some sort of territorial compromises/swap/etc. So what is now on offer is not even possible to achieve -so basically it is a long wi deed way of saying that the Palestinians will never accept a Jewish, permanent, state -so what has changed? Same message just different presentation. Well we know how good the Palestinians are in double talk on recognizing Israel (eg see repeal of charter & recognition of Israel -requied under oslo and never properly actioned (just smoke and mirrors). Obviously the situation can not be such a problem if you can not even accept, for the sake of peace , to recognize Israel as a Jewish state as is clear from the original UN partition resolution. The original partition stated it and the areas were defined by religious population majority. For all the cries the same rejection of a Jewish state as in1948 is still the same cry but in sheep clothing for CNN. How clever for you , how bad for peace.
Now let's see if Abbas has the cajones to pick this up and go with it
Time is running so fast for Israel it is either peace now with a two states solution or it will be defacto a multi national one state for all its residents Israelis Arabs Jews Muslims and Christians
When are you getting out of Cyprus? Kurdistan??
Guess you had better talk to Helen Thomas.
There is no mention of pre 67 at all.
As quoted "Any formulation the Americans present – even asking us to call Israel the 'Chinese State' – we will agree to it, as long as we receive the 1967 borders."
If you are refering to the UN proposed border of 1947 under resolution 181 which gave the arabs 45% of mandate Palestine and an enclave in Jaffa thats not an option. After the war of independence Israel was left with 78% of mandate Palestine what was captured in 1967 was the remaining 22% and thats all thats on offer. Resolution 181 will never be adopted. The arabs may get the bulk of the land captured in 1967 if they negotiate and not demand which will go nowhere but they certainly won't be gatting anything more that that.
That the offer didn't come from Abbas. Plausible deniability?
And Israel has no intention of allowing a true Palestinian state, none, so what's your point?
Netanyauhu can and should be criticized when warranted but I cannot fault him for now re: current peace negotiations. What would you have him do ? The point is, Victor, the innate inability of Palestinians to learn from their past failures and that is the reason they do not have a state and will not ever have it until they unlearn what they absorbed through falsifications of history that allowed them the creation of the racket of the permanent international aid they have been living on for the last 20 years.
Go sell your BS to someone else, Israel's interest isn't in peace, rather they want a Palestinian acknowledgement of subjugation/defeat - the only "peace" of interest is something sold to the world community to officially "end" the occupation but which allows then carry on business as usual.
Business as usual for Israel is to continue building her democracy, prosper economically, culturally and politically. What is business as usual for Palestinians ? it is co continue waiting for another Black Night to teach the Zionist entity a lesson it will not forget while collecting welfare from the hypocritical West ? I guess they feel it is better than making a peace agreement and become responsible for own affairs.
This is exactly the crucial point!!
It can't be cooler than this!!
At the strong insistence of the Arabs, these lines were "temporary cease-fire lines", not borders. This has been well documented. So why are you talking about something that has never existed?
A perfectly logical and reasonable approach. If the Israelis accept it they will be recognized as truly desiring peace. If not, then it is clear that the Israelis never miss an opportunity to miss an opportunity for peace.
you may even recognise the gay parades in Tel Aviv as well!! Who cares as long as Israel recognises Palestine along the 67 borders.....
Ariel and E. Jerusalem will be hard for either side to deal with, other main settlement blocks are along the greenline with hilltop outpost being removed.
the palestinians have no problem to recognize israel as jewish state but israel must recognize the palestinian state and everyone live in his state and finish this conflict ...we want to live in peace ..plz stop the fight and lets build our future
President Obama has said the two sides must sit down and negotiate. PM Netanyahu has offered a freeze on construction as a gesture to sit down and negotiate. Rabbo's offer is intended to obviate any negotiations. Obviously, negotiations are what the Palestinian leadership is most afraid of'
All the Israeli settlements in Palestinian territory are illegal. Netanyahu is not serious when he says he wants to freeze construction for a handful of months. He needs to dismantle them.
Bibi was demanding a huge concession in return for very little - a very temprorary extension of a very partial freeze. This is an offer of a big concession for a big concession. That's REAL negotiation, not Bibi's used car salesman routine.
and Netanyahu's offer of freezing settlements for two months in exchange for abolishing the Palestinian right of return isn't? Puhleeze. This is the best response the PLO could have ever given.
too bad Israel has no intention of doing anything even remotely similar.
....in the Israeli lexicon means: drag them on and on with little to no progress while Israel continues to build jew only colonies in the territories....
Now everything is on the table - the negotiations can start. Godspeed
What borders of the Israeli state do you want us to recognize, never mind the type of Israeli state? The avoidance of the core issues, such as borders, complicates all other aspects of this peace process by not delineating the boundaries between the two states. PM Netanyahu must reciprocate with a response soon to the PA because the if the government wants to reach a resolution by year's end, then the core issues need to be addressed truthfully.
Do you honestly think they haven't already discussed the borders in the past 20 years including in the recent round of negotiations? This is just a publicity ploy because they are unhappy with what they can get in private.
Hopefully, Israel's leadership is smart enough to accepts.
Israel's leadership is smart enough to accepts.
Now everything is on the table and real negotiations can start. Godspeed
First: The PLO Chief does not represent other than himself and few others around him. Second: As a Palestinian, I say give us our full rights, and then be whateever you want to be. Third: You want us to accept you as a jewish sate. Why do you need Palestinian acceptance?? Because you know in your heart that you are guilty and you want someone help you get over that guilt.
The main issue is, has been, and will always be the Final Borders of of either state, Israel, or Palestine. All other issues are only secondary obstacles which will be so easy to remove once the borders are marked, and of course, agreed upon by both sides. Without this settled, negotiations are only a waste of time for both sides and for the US as well.
The Palestinians were offered 97% of what they're asking for in the past. What kind of "negotiations" involve a party demanding 100% or nothing? This has nothing to do with land. It has to do with the fact that Arabs can't stand Israel's existence.
AMEN! Your statement is SO TRUE!
The issue is stolen property Nancy. Wake up. Tomorrow we take Tel Aviv. It now belongs to the USA. How does that feel? Wake up.
why? Even knowing the Palestinians will get what they claim to want... a state of their own... or is this just a smoke screen? ...and of course we all heard the word from the Arab League yesterday unequivocally rejecting recognition of REALITY! Israel is the tiny Jewish State no larger than NJ.
I would hardly use the Palestinians using a "smikescreen". In the past few weeks, you have had so many opinions and speakers spouting out what the say is Israeli policies that it's hard to keep count. Keep them guessing seems to be the main point of Israeli diplomacy at the moment. The State of Israel is the reality. Palestinians recognise that reality. It is not their place to define that state for the Jews. They accept it and that means they accept how the Jews define it. Take it up with Ayalon,lieberman,ysihai and that pack who do not accept a people as the palestinians and do not believe tehrefore in the creation of a Palestinian state.
not a racial Jew-supremacist state. In fact he was careful to use the word 'homeland', to add 'within' and to state that nothing should impinge on the rights of the indigenous Palestinians. The Zio leaders have been trying to buck and change this for 80 years, the answer remains NO THANKS, we don't give democracies racial supremacist or religious zealot titles - Sorry!
Netanyahu the PR man is running out tricks to delay the peace process, and the Palestinians got much smarter and know how to respond well to these PR tricks. They basically used the same trick Netanyahu used and turned back at him. Well Done. The response is quite funny too.
And I presume the Arab Gay lee hero is prepared to reconcile to being run by the Palestinian government during the population / territory switch?
Not a bad strategy Hammer him on borders, borders and soveregnty
Go directly to the heart of the matter. The entire international community does NOT recognise the legality of Israel's occupation. That is fact. They do not recognise Israel's annexation of EJ or the Golan. That is fact. They claim they are for a two state solution. Let the US and EU come out and say publically that they have presented the Jewish State of Israel with maps which do not include the occupied territories or occupied EJ within that Jewish State of Israel. Let the international community finally, once and for all, stand behind the position they have had on this since 1967.
I guess there cant be a counter- proposal to this. Best of all interests.
I was thinking the same thing but along the lines of: "we WILL recognize israel as a jewish state once we reach a peace agreement, but for the time being we recognize israel right to exist in peace" this what bibi won't have any more excuses as we are willing to recognize israel as a jewish state but only after a just peace agreement,
Super tactics by the PA
Not a bad strategy Hammer him on borders, borders and sovereignty
The Palestinians will never recognize Israel as a " Jewish State " and the Israelis will never return to the 1967 border . To continue like this makes no sense any more , it's about time for the UN to decide where the future Israeli / Palestinian border will be .
http://www.mfa.gov.il/MFA/Facts+About+Israel/Israel+in+Maps/1947+UN+Partition+Plan.htm
World court decision (2004) calling for Israel to return to the pre-June 1967 borders. The vote was 15/0. Thomas Buergenthal, the American Jewish Judge had a 'dissenting' note, but even he said that the territories were de facto occupied Palestinian territories.
Well I hate to burst the bubble of the PLO, but before 1967 there was no "Palestine" and the West Bank was recognised as "Jordanian West Bank"... so should the West Bank be handed over to Jordan? It is funny how the Palestinians rewrite history because at no stage was there ever a Palestinian State.
And before 1948 there was also no Zionistic israeli state, so we have to give all the land back to the british?
... they can then turn it over to Palestinians for their state. LOL
The land has been called Palestine for at least three millenia and its people Palestinians, long before the Jewish invaders rolled up from Iraq. Why do you think the Bible speaks of Palestine? "But before 1967 there was no 'Palestine'... What do you think the British Mandate was called? It was 'Palestine' and the people, including the mmeagre number of indigenous Jews, were called Palestinians. What you are trying to do is to delegitimize Palestine, by historical revisionism and invention. Why is it that idologues are alwys quick madate terrmadate territory was called oin 1922 You are wrong in you modern history too
during the mandate all palestinians were jews !!!!!!!!!!!
The moment of peace has come, now we will know the real intentions of your government, Palestinians have done all what Israel asked for, i hope your netanyahu and lieberman wont screw this, at last we can have peace. salam shalom peace
by either Jews and Arabs and Christians, OR by international concerns.That way it would stop fighting about it,no-one would have exclusive rights and no-one will be deprived of their religious or other rights.It seems to me that we are too concerned with semantics plus exclusivity,rather than peace and day to day living with ourselves and our neighbours.What has happened is in the past and we must all look to the future.
piling, "Jews and Arabs and Christians" together as one group instaed of Jews, Moslems and Christians. Arabs can be Christians, such as myself, Arabs can be Jews as were the friends of my Grandfather in Palestine and the Moslems who we all know who can be Arab or from another Nationality.
Jerusalem is too important to too many people of different religions for the Arabs to claim exclusively rights to the city or for Jews to declare that their claim is more important than any other. Jerusalem has been fought over since the dawn of history and changed hands countless times. It should belong to everyone and to no one.
Bibi has dug a big hole for himself insisting on PLO recongize Israel as a Jewish State. PLO latest say on it makes more sense and their are always on up on Likud + partners. STOP making demands Bibi, they come back to bite you...
Israel never recognized the Palestinian state, but asked for Palestinian recognition of Israel as a Jewish state. Israel is too strong to make peace with Palestinians, and Palestinians are too weak to make peace with Israel. Neither side can deliver anything viable to the table. There is no pressure on Israel to do anything, why should it? It has a strong army, to which Palestinians are not a threat, it has most of the land and a population, most of whom don't care. Palestinians have no coercive power, and thus, Netanyahu can deliver such insults as last week's to the table.
i seem to recall him saying, "two states for two peoples." What the PA wants is just "two states." By avoiding to recognize what israel means to the jewish people, they are keeping their doors open for a hostile takeover. The PA likes this leverage, but doesn't like that Israel is calling them on it.
Why would one nation demand that another nation," recognize what their country mean to them?" Doesn't that seem silly? I got news Reader- the Palestinians have already had a hostile takeover. You are fooling yourself somehow. That does not sound like a reder.
No recognition was made. It was a statement of purpose, not a statement of action.
This is like a tennis match, I must say a beautiful return of serve by the PLO chief!
And neither will the USA's response be. They cannot supply what the Israeli government will not give; the not so secret hidden agenda in its full glory would make even the most ardent Israeli supporter on Capitol Hill balk. What do you think? I’m just curious.
Puts the onus back on both Israel and the US to respond. What are the borders? We all want to know.
Demand the US provide 1967 bordsers and we mya accept. How about we do something different. Sit down with a large map with the bhiorders from 1967 already marked in red. Tyhen we add or subtract those areas that are of special interest and exschange what is required. That should be the easy part as it formed the basis of the last three agreements. To get to that point, ya have to sit down and sharpen teh pencils. not just talk about it. Once biorders are drawn, Israel will recongize a pali state
But isn't that part of what the negotiations were supposed to be about? Remember "no preconditions" Why should any of this -including any construction freeze - be negotiated in this public kabuki theater?
had no preconditions at all for peace... nothing but expansion of settlements...
Interesting to see the Pals over the years gradually beginning to play Israel at its own game and now they're beginning to score points. Bibi offered a 2 month freeze in return for recognition of the Jewish State thinking the Pals would refuse outright so he could blame them for peace talks collasping. Now the Pals come back with an offer which Bibi is going to have to refuse. And from the Pals' point of view it's a winning strategy because it will gain world support. The world already expects Bibi tp freeze settlements PERMANENTLY as part of Israel's road map commitments and therefore world doesn't expect the Pals to pay for a tiny, temporary freeze. By contrast, the world supports 1967 borders as the basis of a Pal state, so they would expect Israel to agree to this, which it won't! Points to the Pals. If they keep on being clever diplomatically and don't go back to terrorism they may get Israel off their back yet.
Who is Abed Rabo?????? He gave a great answer and it is indeed a great strategy that really challenges Bibi. However, if the pals would have been intelligent as Abbed Rabo is they would have never be in the situation they are now. They would have had a state several years ago. Either Hammas the islamic Jyhad or even fatah will disarray that intelligent initiative. Israel always profits from palestinian rejectionism, and this time will not be different. Since partition in 1947, or the Peel proposals of 1936 the palestinians have been jumping from blunder to blunder. In sum Abed Rabo strategy wont hold water and Bibi knows it.
Does it matter to their unquestioning fan club
rabo did not utter the magic words but attempted to skirt around them ! there are no 67 0r 49 borders it is an armistice line !!!!
G"d's chosen people.....?
as you can see it is a political war. so it would be another come back like " well the the 1922 borders we will ....and so on....no leaders want peace...leader want fame and glory....
No one can accept as state when they don't know the borders of this state. So Abbo isquite right when he demands the borders first - and based on the 1967 borders
the Pals recognize Israel in a pretty basic way. Rabbo is setting a pre-condition about a substantive issue that can only be resolved in negotiations. seems kinda unfair to me.
Either this reader can't read or prefer to be disingenuous. The Palestinians have recognised Israel since 1994. Does every succeding administration have to repeat that, adding a little extra every time? What about Israel recognising a Palestine state?
Either this reader can't read or prefer to be disingenuous. The Palestinians have recognised Israel since 1994. Does every succeding administration have to repeat that, adding a little extra every time? What about Israel recognising a Palestine state?
The next step is to declare a Palestinian State on pre: 67 borders. Who cares what the Israelis want to call themselves or what they want to be if the palestinians get justice. If Israel wants to step away from democracy and become a religious State then fine. No religiously defined State has a future in any modern world but if it makes them happy for a time and the Palestinians have justice and freedom then so be it.
Critics of Israel's self-definition as a "Jewish state" keep on missing the pint, which is that in this context "Jewish" does not refer to the religion of Judaism, but to a national Jewish culture that includes secular and atheistic/agnostic Jews. Jews constitute a nationality--the traditional religion of which is Judaism. Israel wants to be a Jewish state like Greece wants to be a Greek state.
Could you please list your qualifications to discuss our region. Facts only! Advanced schooling, several years living in this region, fluency in local languages, experience with the State Department would work.
And where are this pre 67 borders?
have no will or custom of living in peace with those who are not like them, much less a completely different ethnoc whom they see as their spiritual, existential enemy. They only know how to live in a state of emnity.
Weren't the pre 1957 Borders pretty well indefensible? What about the Western Wall and the Temple Mount. If the fact that jews or christians cannot pray on the Temple Mount NOW, then that comment does not bode well for any future borders. It also does not make secure borders for Israel. Abbas has already said that he will never admit Israel as a Jewish state, so who is telling the truth?
'67 borders are "indefensible," and yet somehow Israel managed to defend itself with the '67 borders. it's a lie and we all know it
This is not a Christian holy site at all.
Why don't you read what the lady wrote. She said PRE 1967 borders were indefensible; with today's weapons even more so.
'67 borders are the only borders Israel has ever had. Granted, since '67 Israel has claimed to have fluid borders but it is bizarre that, not only can it reject its internationally-recognised borders, but that it won't provide an alternative.
Brilliant logic - and a stunning counter-suggestion.
PLO chief demands that Israel should accept the future outcome of the negotiations on borders without even negotiating..So if Israel accepts this, what is to negotiate
If Israel is allowed to make such demande before negotiations, then PA also should be allowed to make their own demande.
They say Bibi had no interest in talking about borders or right of return, only security, security, security. So they can discuss how to secure the new border, and assurances, monitors, etc. for the new Palestinian state, and the placement of security cameras on poles in the Jordan Valley to watch for all those Russian tanks flowing out of Jordan.
Forgot?
Now what will Bibi come back with? raise or fold?
Theocratic, Ultra Ortadox, Nationalist, Semitic, Jewish state of Israel
finaly a smart man talking