Palestinians say no peace talks without settlement curbs

It is remarkable to observe how cowardly Netanyahu is, given the great example his predecessor as Likud PM, Ariel Sharon, set. Sharon came up with his plan to disengage from Gaza in 2004. The plan was opposed by many in Likud, and Sharon agreed to put the plan to a vote by the general Likud membership. The plan was REJECTED in the poll. Sharon persisted; he devised a "new" plan, which involved evacuating the SAME areas as the original plan, but in 4 stages. This "new" plan he did not submit to a membership vote. A vote on it in the cabinet expected to yield a narrow DEFEAT to Sharon, because most Likud ministers opposed it. To get a narrow majority, Sharon in mid-2005 fired Lieberman and another settler minister (and their "national union" party). It gave Sharon a bare majority (11:10) with a minimal coalition of 61 MP's, including the religious Mafdal (6 MP's) which didn't yet quit because they didn't think Sharon was sincere about leaving Gaza, but were utterly opposed to that move. Ultimately, Sharon had a group of Likud rebels opposing him, but he brought Labor into the coalition to carry out the plan. Compare this to Netanyahu: All he needs to do is fire the Lieberman party, Replace it by Kadima, and govern with a safe majority despite some expected Likud rebels. An astonishing demonstration of political cowardice. Note: This observation is made regardless of whether one accepts Sharon's tactics or disagrees with them.

This issue is particularly revealing of elements in Netanyahu's personality. First, a basic principle. If you are discussing with another side sharing the land (or a pizza), it cannot be done while one party keeps devouring the land (or the pizza). Some form of a freeze is obviously a necessary condition for peace talks. If this thought did not occur to netanyahu on his own, he could have gotten a clue from the fact that the Roadmap included a freeze in the FIRST phase. This is basic. What decision did the Netanyahu government take? 1. The freeze applies to outside the current line of buildings, not to building WITHIN the currently built area. 2. The freeze will last for only 10 months. 3. The freeze will not be renewed. What do these elements indicate? The first element shows that Netanyahu has some sense of realism, and understands that a territorial exchange is acceptable to the Palestinians, so he takes advantage of it. The two other points are clearly unreal. Was it conceivable that the talks will be concluded in only 10 months? Would the Palestinians even conceive of talking peace with no freezing? I think Netanyahu has enough realism to realize that, but since he was dealing with his right wing partners Lieberman and most of Likud members, he decided to deceive them for now, present a nicer picture, and when the time comes he would try to wriggle out of it. All this shows Netanyahu as a creature of pressure; when pressured he acts, many times deceptively. Ultimately, he is not a courageous leader. He did not fight out the good fight then.

Once again Israel loses the PR war. The Palestinians successfully linked continued peace talks with settlement freeze. Israel did not link the peace talks to anything. So who will get the blame, in the US media, in world opinion?

i do believe that the pa has taken the right decision. how can we believe that israel is serious in pursuing a real peace process, while at the same time it is eating up the palestinian land day by day? i hope that the pa will not succumb to the israeli and american pressures it there are no real guarantees that the negotiations will bear fruit within a year.

I feel that the time has come for the Israeli left to wake up from hibernation. There is hardly anything that can awake more enthusiasm among the silent majority than demanding en masse a full and complete stop to any settlement activity. Bibi can try and fool all of us further, but here's a point where he'll have to show his true face. Gauging the enthusiasm of my friends, I can guarantee a huge turnout for such a demonstration, hundreds of thousands for sure.

Iran is again stoking the fires of war with Syria who has visions of throwing the IDF off the golan. Nasrallah is fearful of being named in an idictment with the UN commission into hariri death. hamas is not popular and is irrelevant and looks to regain legitimacy which a war would bring to it. PA well its teh PA corrupt. If the benefactors of teh PA said "no more money until you sit down and make peace" I would wager Abbas would sit down in a heartbeat because Arafats wife would make him. She still gets a tidy sum of millions from teh PA each year

and the US should start building its relations with that assumption !

Israel agreed to the so-called road map, which called for a freeze on settlement expansion. That IS the basis of the Palestinian stance, and it's absolutely valid! That the continuation of settlement building was quietly ignored by the Palestinians during negotiations with Olmert was likely due to the fact that REAL progress was being made with a credible partner for peace. And from their experience with the man, they'll have NEITHER of these with Netanyahu. And Netanyahu can try to blame them all he wants, and he's right to some small degree - they COULD relent and expose their backside once again - but it's readily apparent to whole world exactly where the REAL blame lies!

Is this not the time for Labor to say, "Bring in kadima or we'll leave?" What purpose is Labor serving in this government? What government policies is it mitigating? Just why does Labor exist at this point?

quite simple really...

The talks SHOULD concentrate on drawing the borders of a Palestinian state...but that's the LAST item on Israel's list, and every consensus arrived at before then will be held binding by Israel, no matter what the outcome of the talks. And as the history of negotiations has shown, these will later be used as propaganda when the Palestinians ignore them if no final agreement is reached. Meanwhile, the continuation of building in the settlements provides the Palestinians a stark reminder of Israel's commitment to REMAIN in the territory it occupies. There's absolutely NO getting around the message that it conveys!

The "peace" negotiations are nothing but a joke. How can the oppressed "negotiate" with the oppressor while the oppression continues? How can those who have been dispossessed of their lands "negotiate" while the dispossession continues.? If Israel truly wanted peace they would have gotten out of the ILLEGALLY occupied territories a long time ago and not continued building colonies, each and every one ILLEGAL under international law. Israel has proven that peace without controlling the bulk of the West Bank and its water resources is the last thing from the minds of those in power in Israel and their settler minions. Sadly I do not believe that Haaretz will even print this. I hope I am wrong.

How can the weak party make demands on the stronger party? Where is the reciprocity? Bibi made no demands on abbas to sit down & talk. Why didn't abbas begin talks as soon as Israel began construction freeze - instead he waited until the freeze was almost over? So who exactly torpedoed these talks?

"He said it wasn't easy for him to get his hard-line coalition to back the initial moratorium" -- When he can't get his coalition to back a settlement building freeze, ho should we expect him to get his coalition to back a settlement evacuation? Basically, he admits: I like to negotiate, because that looks fine to the world, but I cannot deliver results.

It is very convenient for the Palestinians to have all their demands satisfied before the negotiation starts. This is disputed land, and will be divided in the final settlement. In the meanwhile, both Israelis and Palestinians can build.

... Israel say no to peace talks without a complete stop of terror and hate propaganda by the Palestinians. This would indeed be a clever move in order to avoid any kind of progress in peace negotiations. But that's exactly what the Palestinians are doing when they insist on complete freeze of the settlement activities. Nothing but an alibi to stall the negotiations and wash their hands in innocence. Besides, it is quite evident why they returned to the negotiating table only last month: it is easier to leave, blaming the other side, while the freeze of settlement construction is soon going to expire than in the middle of the freeze. Now let's see what they will get from all their cunning.

echoing from other posts and readings Israel doesn't need "peace" because it has it already - until the shrinking mainstream stands up and pushes out the right wing - there is no chance. The mainstream lives daily in a prosperous , democratic and safe society - why take risks? The Pals want peace of the victors, not the vanquished and the with the support they get from the world, they don't have to compromise. They and the Arab world don't have to concede that trying for years to destroy Israel militarily and failing, has a price. Unfortunately peace can't happen until one or both sides are exhausted from conflict, and we are far from that time.

It is incredible that absence is the name of the game here, internal political interests, not logic rule the scenario, there is no idealism backing the israeli goverment for many years now, only power strugles and of as always, the unconditional support of the US goverment, backed by just about the same power strugles which have no interest in normal and basic human matters, this strategic alliances are based of course on economic interests as we all know, Israel has become numb arguing the protection of us the jews as their sole banner, but all those actions actually areacomplishing the oposite, there is no pride in Israel anymore, a society that chooses economical status over tolerance is in no position to live in peace not only with their neighbours but with no one.

This is such BS. If it's not the settlement it will be something else, Jerusalem, RR and what ever else

to admit defeat be honest with his people admit failure dissolve the PLO and fight for equal rights

When such flesh and blood goes up against such spirit, the flesh and blood will naturally return to the dust of the earth from whence it came.

Let him clean it up. His insistence on construction freeze was idiotic in the first place, and now Arabs climbed up the tree they have no idea how to come down from.

One can decide the fate in the "final" status negiotiations, just like settelments... since it would not impede with peace as Bibi is trying to convince himself and the rest of the world.

The arabs would not come to the table during the building freeze. The reason is, they needed to wait until the freeze was over so they could justify not coming to the table.

Israel keeps eating away at the land that would make a new Palestine. The Jewish settler appetite for Arab land is voracious. Netanyahu and Lieberman would like to legitimize these immoral actions by luring Abbas into negotiations that forfeit settlement land to Israel. Abbas needs to exit negotiations unless the Quartet (USA, Russia, the EU and the UN) are prepared to intervene and guarantee a free, governable Palestine without Israeli interference.

..... Netanyahu and Abbas know what they want but there is no fit. Pres Obama, on the American side, doesn't seem to have any idea about what's going on and what to do. If he knew, he would do a speech. So, a zero is all that's developing.... I can't see what there is for us to discusss - who gets, what part, of the zero?

Ever since his (Obama) groundbreaking speech in Cairo last year, The pals thought that the rules had changed... Unfortunately since Obama is still very naive when it comes to foreign politics he did not even know that he changed the rules... Now there can’t be peace unless Israel stops all building... A rather radical precondition IMO... Imagine if Israel said no talks till recognition as a Jewish state or that Pals can’t build in East Jerusalem because Israel wants it as a future capital... Perhaps that is the future of these talks (NO peace until all our demands have been met... these aren’t peace talks they are ultimatums to prevent war!)

Obama is trying to help the Palestinians, even if he is not acting too strongly yet, perhaps because of the coming US elections. Instead of causing more trouble for Obama, and instead of having him make unprecedented concessions to Israel now, the Arabs should offer Obama that they will continue direct negotiations for 3 (not only 2) months, in return for a fraction of what he was wuilling to pay Israel to do for a 2 months extension: A little more financial support to build their state, not pressuring them to agree to another extension, and not vetoing any Security Council decision that is in their favor in the coming year, including admittance of an independent Palestinian state to the UN. If in 3 months Israel and the PA agree on the final borders, settlements can resume in the Israeli section.

Netanyahu said. "We want the talks to continue and I want this. We have a mission of peace."?

The whole problem of this new so-called peace process was caused by Obama.His lack of political experience & Israel bashing & now trying to be the good guy has turned the process into a giant fiasco. Israel left Gaza & look what they got!!!!If Israel were to continue to freeze construction in Judea & Samaria.what would it get in return????? Palestinian incitement & anti- israel is still taught to their school children & the terrorists that run Gaza call for Israel's destruction daily.Israel must protect itself first & foremost.By the way..... When is the UN & the rest of the world going to ask China to stop occupying & get out of Tibet (a souvereign Nation) ??????????

One State solution. It's the least painful to all sides. One man, one vote, secular democratic state with constitutional guarantee of a safe haven for Jews, Christians and Muslims. Designate a Jewish president, Muslim Prime Minister, Christian speaker of parliament a-la- Lebanon. End of the story. Everything else is a recipe for decades of conflict. Let's follow the South African example. Don't delay the inevitable.

Why waste time talking Peace while Israel is waging Piece by Piece extermination of all hope for a two-state solution? The Netanyahu government has proven beyond a shadow of doubt that it has no intention of negotiating a two-state solution.

If the pals would have negotiated starting 10 months ago they would be on their way to statehood. But, as before they hold on to some issue that either can't fly: refugees. Or, doesn't matter: limited construction. I will admit that Bibi will take the heat for this one. I like the Leiberman plan better anyhow.

When 'palestinians' kill Israelis during peace talks, the European left wing tell Israelis that they have to continue talks even though their citizens are being killed. Yet apparently building some homes is an obstacle to talks. Just shows the disgusting hypocrisy of Eurabia. Killing Jews is inconvenient but talks must continue - building homes in Judea & Samaria is an obstacle for talks.

But that will not work. The word from Israel is that Netanyahu is counting on a huge US election landslide to save him from Obama. And then in 2012, there will be a Republican president who is more likely than Obama to let him bomb Iran. Netanyahu has done this before. During the Lewinsky affair, he came to Washington, ignored President Clinton, and went up to the Hill to smoke cigars with Speaker Newt Gingrich and exchange Monica jokes. To understand Bibi, you need to realise that as much as he is Likud, he is a right-wing Republican. Here is what we should do. Tell Netanyahu that either he agrees to the freeze or the US slows down the delivery of aid. After all, Israel is the no. 1 recipient of US aid in the world. Surely, there are ways the Pentagon can indicate displeasure. Or maybe we can refuse to veto one of those Security Council resolutions that rightly condemn Israel's actions in occupied areas. We do not always have to be the one country in the world that stands alone at Israel's side when the UN attempts to pass a resolution we know is right. I mean, we are the United States. We are also Israel's only real ally on the planet. We do not have to take this kind of dissing lying down.

Abbas is a wise man.

under current conditions is equivalent to shaking hands with your mugger while his left mitt is still in your pocket and his pal has a gun to your head.You do it, but is that the end of it?

Israel, Jerusalem, Judea and Samaria are for the Jewish people not for Arabs. Point final. Talks with terrorist that want only destruction of Israel are actualy a crime. No more Blah , Blahs with the Abbas gang. Action from the Pals now. Go Home.

Egypt was once a leader in the Arab world and now it would sell out its own mother. There should be a law that Egyptian men are not allowed to grow mustaches so that we can bless them by saying we miss seeing their mustache.

The whole world seems to want Israel to accept living with 1 million Palestinians, but seem not notice that Fatah and Hamas don't want one Jew in their future state. Just doesn't seem fair. Let us not forget Gilad Shalit in these peace talks.

besides a divided Palestinian state, fractured leadership and of course, the elephant in the room aka. Hamas. Don't give in to these PLO tantraums!! They had 10 months to negotiate and decided to start in the last month of the mematorium??! For a side that cannot even guarantee any peace negotiations when they themselves are divided, they should just stop whinging and get on with it.

He values his opinions & preferences more than truth. He is in love with himself. He is always seeking an audience to share his thoughts This folly is widely promoted today, the perilous times of the last days, when men love their own selves & reject sound doctrine. shalom

If settlers insist on building so much allow them to build but only vertically, expanding their building only upward to the sky. That way they would not occupy anymore territory than they already do... and everyone are happy or at least they wouldn't be able to issue excuses anymore.. I'm kind of surprised no one considered this option, sure building skyscrapers is more expensive but that would be the settlers problem

And we stopped constructions for 10 month, while they refused to talk. So there is only one rational explanation: West bank leadership is so much afraid of world wide Islamic reaction and of Hamas, that they prefer this, instead of freedom. The question of whether Netanyahu creates a good atmosphere for peace is not comparable in importance. Of course Netanyahu is not the best friend of Palestinians, and neither Abbas is a friend of Israel. To say "We don't take the chance to have a state because of a few house being constructed" is completely ridiculous. The question is whether Palestinians want an independent state, including the war they will have to wage against Hamas and outside Islamic reaction - recognizing Israel is no small feat for Islamic world (including Iran).

I have never liked Abbas, but his stance concerning settlement construction and peace is understandable and correct. I have never liked Netanyahu, but he is playing the game as he is expected to do and he is good at it. He deserves respect for this. I used to like Obama. I thought he was a man of intelligence, and strength of character. I thought he would change American "politics as usual". In the end, Obama is a disaster. The worst president ever. He is weak and ineffective and provides no leadership. His peace making strategy is heavy handed and clumsy and should not be put on a one year timer. Allowing himself to be slapped around by Netanyahu on the public stage was a huge NONO for an American president. Attempting to force Abbas into playing a role in the Obama peace charade is bullying and merits being snubbed by the mild mannered Abbas. Obama piles sanctions on Iran to make Israel happy and he stresses Americas long term relationship with Turkey to make Israel happy. He does all these things to make Israel happy and yet Israel dislikes him and considers him a fool. Obama has never actually had a position of leadership and it shows. The presidency of the USA is no place for a rookie to gain basic leadership experience.

You know, aside from being provocative it's actually stupid, expensive and potentially wasteful for the Israelis to be building on land that may be ceded back to the Palestinians. Who is paying for this? As far as the settlers go, let them stay. If they find themselves on the Palestinian side of the border they'll be Palestinians. Jewish Palestinians. Israel has Arabs. Palestine can have Jews. It's the same thing.

You guys have been freiers for the past umpteen years... what in the heck has changed now?... you guys are disappointing me... take note of that, or else...

They need peace more than Israel does. I would have thought that they would be looking for some way to move the process forward. But, being Palestinians, they ALWAYS screw themselves. Lieberman is right: peace will not be achieved for many more years and it is hopeless to delude oneself otherwise!

And all those talks have failed. Why not try something new? No settlement building during peace talks. What's the definition of doing the same thing over and over again and expecting a different result?

Abbas stance is very reasonable. Obama is generating chaos in Americas foreign policy in an attempt to have peace talks proceeding as a backdrop to the America elections. That's all they are to Obama. An election stunt. He has allowed it to become a big deal though. If the peace talks collapse so near the election dates, it will be another failure to add to Obamas list. He would much rather have them running smoothly so he can say that he is on the verge of an historic mideast peace. Lovely spin.

Unfortunately Israel's refusal to stop settlement building has had a predictable effect. If the government cannot extend a freeze for even three months, what hope is there that it will take on the settlers for the far more difficult job of evicting them from their illegal settlements, as well as the other crunch issues? By adopting this position the Israeli government loses all credibility as a partner for peace. When will Netanyahu get rid of the rabid right-wingers he is in hock to and talk to more sane people in other parties? Or is he really quite happy with this result?

Abbas gets no respect. He has been saying "No peace negotiations while Israel builds settlements" over and over again, and yet America doesn't pay attention. Does Mitchall and Obama think that if they nag Abbas long enough that he will change his mind? Clearly, Abbas and the Palestinians are uncomfortable with the peace fakery and they should be. Obama needs to cut his losses here. It is not possible to force peace upon someone if they reject it. In this case, it is peace fakery being forced upon Abbas. In effect Abbas is saying, I know that these talks will not lead to peace, but Israel must at least pretend to want peace in order to give me some face. This is reasonable. It is unreasonable for the Americans to trample Abbas in this matter.

OK, an eye for an eye,,,one for one.... No recognition of a palistinian nation until arabs recognise the jewish nation.

This is not a surprise. The US wants it, the world wants it, and it is definitely the conditions for peace talks to continue. Everyone knew this. So why is Israel acting defiant and refusing to cooperate? Israel is making the biggest mistake by rejecting the chance for peace for their people, and choosing to contunue land grabbing and building of illegal settlements . Once the chance for getting peace is gone, the world can never get it back easily. Are these lousy houses worth the lives of the Israeli and Palestinian people? Your move, Israel.