PA official: Palestinians to rule on fate of Israel peace talks in days
Member of PLO executive committee says Palestinians likely to withdraw from talks over their 'failure'; PA sources say Israel offers to make West Bank barrier into official border.
By Avi Issacharoff and The Associated Press Tags: Middle East peace Palestinians Benjamin Netanyahu Mahmoud Abbas Quartet Saeb Erekat West BankThe executive committee of the Palestinian Liberation Organization (PLO) is expected to rule whether or not to continue the Jordan-mediated low-level peace talks with Israel in the next few days, Palestinian officials said on Saturday.
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A Palestinian boys holding up posters of the late Palestinian leader Yasser Arafat and President Mahmoud Abbas in the West Bank city of Ramallah, Dec. 31, 2011. |
| Photo by: AP |
On Thursday, the time frame that the Palestinians have allowed for talks with Israel in Amman under Jordanian auspices expired, as sources associated with the Middle East Quartet - the United States, United Nations, European Union and Russia - said last-minute efforts are underway to head off the talks' collapse.
Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's representative to the Amman talks, Isaac Molho, met on Wednesday in the Jordanian capital for a fifth time with the head of the Palestinian negotiating team Saeb Erekat - but at this point no formula has been reached that would enable the talks to continue.
Erekat made it clear that because Israel has not presented its position on the issue of borders with a Palestinian state, from the Palestinians' standpoint, the talks have ended.
Speaking on Friday, Wasel Abu Yousef, a member of the PLO's top panel, said that the Palestinian leadership will decide on the future of the fledgling peace talk in the coming days, following what he called their "failure."
Abu Yousef said that the PA was considering to accelerate reconciliation talks with Hamas, adding that "all necessary measure will be weighed in order to strengthen our people's resolve against the racist and fascist occupation and to increase popular resistance in all Palestinian lands."
The PLO indicated that it plans to bring its decision to the Arab League ahead of its planned February 4 meeting.
According to Palestinian officials, the PA's expected exit from peace talks come following Molho's recent proposal concerning borders, one which would not, the officials said, enable the existence of a future Palestinian state.
Speaking earlier Friday, unnamed Palestinian sources told the Associated Press that the proposal brought forth by Molho during his recent meeting with Erekat was to essentially turn Israel's West Bank separation barrier into the border with a future state of Palestine.
The officials said Israeli envoy Molho told his Palestinian counterpart that Israel wants to keep east Jerusalem and consolidate Jewish settlements behind the separation barrier, which slices close to 10 percent off the West Bank.
They spoke on Friday on condition of anonymity, citing strict no-leaks rules by Jordanian mediators.
That proposal would fall short of what the Palestinians seem likely to accept, especially because it would leave Jerusalem on the "Israeli" side of the border.
Israel has confirmed that it presented principles this week for drawing a border with a Palestinian state. But the politically charged nature of the talks - even though they were held at a relatively low level, below that of Cabinet ministers - was reflected in the guarded refusal by any top official to discuss details.
An Israeli government official said that as far as he knew, the information was incorrect, but declined to elaborate or go on the record, citing Jordan's demand for discretion.
Deputy Prime Minister Dan Meridor, one of the closest Cabinet ministers to Netanyahu, said he has been supporting such an offer for months, and that Israel should concentrate on preserving the large West Bank settlement blocs, close to the pre-1967 border. But he could not confirm whether the offer was in fact made.
"I do not know if (Molho) said these words exactly, but it would be great," Meridor told The Associated Press.
The Palestinian officials - one a senior member of the leadership - said Molcho told the Palestinians that Israel wants to live peacefully beside a Palestinian state.
It would be the most detailed offer yet from Netanyahu on how much he wants to keep of the lands Israel captured in the 1967 Mideast War … the West Bank, Gaza and east Jerusalem.
The Palestinians want to establish their state in virtually all of these lands - although they do seem ready to accept minor adjustments, through land swaps in which Israel keeps some of the largest settlements.
Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas is certainly unlikely to consider a proposal that keeps east Jerusalem under Israeli control. The eastern sector of the city is home to key Jewish, Muslim and Christian sites.
And Israel's position, as described by the Palestinians, is less than what was offered by Netanyahu's predecessors, Ehud Barak and Ehud Olmert, who were willing to discuss a partition of Jerusalem as well.
The Palestinian officials also said that Molho portrayed the Jordan Valley, which makes up about one-fourth of the West Bank and borders Jordan, as a strategic Israeli security asset. However, that wording suggests less than a demand for firm territorial control.
Netanyahu has said he wants a continued Israeli presence on the eastern border of a future Palestinian state as part of any peace deal.
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" Abu Yousef said that the PA was considering to accelerate reconciliation talks with Hamas, adding that "all necessary measure will be weighed in order to strengthen our people's resolve against the racist and fascist occupation and to increase popular resistance in all Palestinian lands." . Palestinians want again violence, killing and terror against Israel. These words of Abu Yusef show exactly what they want. They are going to make a new error in their will for a State. The result of a new wave of violence will be destruction of what they have achieved to these days, more people fleeing to Jordan and more suffering. Israel has supported 7 wars against arab countries and palestinians, including 2 intifadas, if a new war comes, it will be the last one for the palestinians, as I believe that no one will remain in the WB. It is time for the palestinians to reconsider their position and look for a real peace vtreaty with Israel
He found out that there's no business like Palestinian Cause business and his Swiss bank accounts reflect that. Suha too is still living high of the haram hog and made a greedy last dash for the cash after her husband's death because she cared so much for Palestinian suffering.
When something is biblically meant to be that's how history ends up transpiring and the time for Israel's rebirth in the land has come to pass, its tenacious roots providing inner and outer strength for the Jewish State from the storms of violence, historical and spiritual revisionism, and war will remain intact, and the future of the area though tumultuous and leading to the most extreme of conflicts where without divine intervention no life would be spared, will ultimately see swords being beaten into plowshares. Pray for that ultimate day.
The churning of the storm that started in Tunisia will not stop in Syria, no way no how, it will engulf Jordan and possibly Saudi Arabia and the rest of the Gulf as money does not buy freedom. The future of Israel is being dermined now by the fighters in Libya, the Free Syrian army and potentially others that will end up potent like Hizbullah fighters that were baptised under fire. What all those future bonbs have in common, is Religion, Language, and their absolute hate of Israel that have been building over many decades. All what the Palestinians have to do is sit tight the high tide will carry you to a safe and sunny island.The future of Israel is bleak indeed unless they change attitude now.
Why are they still putting the DISGUSTING arafart picture BUT RIGHT SMACK in the FRONT.. I have said it before..........Abbas et all still are the followers of THAT scumbag which proves they e all the same side of the DIRTY COIN. What else does one conclude......... And my repetitive CONCLUSION IS: There will NEVER be a Fakestinian state till doomsday ( IF EVER)
Israel has really never changed it's negotiating stance. What is being offered is the 92% of Judea and Samaria the was offered in 2000 at Camp David; that the Arafat PLO rejected. Did the delusional anti-semites and leftys that write on these blogs think 10 years of intifada and rockets would get the Arabs any more territory? Neither do Oil bribes trump national survival. Obama/Blair/Ashton/Moon know that very well. Abbas can't deal because he will be a dead man just like Arafat feared.
The world is slowly cathing on to the Israeli myth that it seeks a just peace. It never has --does not and never will---until it is forced down their collective throats.
The Palestinians would rather have the international community bash Israel in order to extract concession without having to give anything in return. And so they have implemented a plan to do this. This will fail as the core issue being presented to the world by the Palestinians is that israel is like apartheid South Africa. This could not be further from the truth. Another thing. The Palestinians are not innocent, peace loving people like Gandhi was. There is no room to compare South Africa to Israel and this plan by the Palestinians is evil.
Isn't that quite old fashioned
A prominent aspirant of US presidency declares that Palestinians are not interested in 2state solution. Grant the Palestinians living in Gaza and west bank become full fledged citizenship of Israel, there won't be any demand for an independant palestine and no 2 state solution. Let the palestinian refugees return to Israel if they wish so. Middle East problem solved.
They LOST all the wars, and possession is 90% of the law. Seems like they are angling for something much different than a State. If these "victims of oppression" were offered a State, and an end to this oppression, wouldn't they jump at it? What is up their sleeve. Seems like they don't want this to end, unless they terminate Israel. In that case, this charade will go on for another century. Their delusion will inflict suffering onto their people. Not that they really care.
As far as I understand it, both sides were to present their proposals for final borders to be negotiated. I don't see how Israel's position is out of step with that idea, whatever your view on the wall or the settlements. Neither side will get what it wants, even in the watered down proposals - many Arabs ideally want a state from the Jordan River to the Med, as do many Israelis. Neither are realistic or reasonable in any way. Jerusalem clearly cannot be shared as it stands, but much of East Jerusalem is mainly Arab and the city's municipal boundaries have vastly expanded over the years as with most others across the world. The Temple Mount and the old walled city cannot be divided as should not be separated off from Israel. Neither should Arabs, be they Christian or Muslim or indeed anyone else, be prevented from going there as Jews were between 1948 and 1967. Where the separation barrier cuts off Palestinians Fron their fields, it must be rerouted to remedy that injustice or peace will never be achieved. Whatever route for the border is chosen, we can only hope that in the future it will be as open as borders in the EU. That will be the logical outcome of true peace. More importantly there has to be a fair solution to water rights across the region. Arab villages just inside the Green Line could be transferred to a future Palestinian state but it would have to be consensual. As for Gaza, I cannot see any way of incorporating it into a state with the West Bank, certainly not while Hamas is in power.
The Israeli government does not have the right to hand over one inch of the Jewish homeland. Any land handed over should be voted on by referendum by all Jews worldwide. Even then we do not have any mandate to do so. The whole idea is absurd, but have no fear this generous, suicidal offer will be rejected by Israel's enemies who insist on ALL of Israel or nothing.
Chaim, it will all be blamed on Israel, while the Palestinians have offered nothing. With this bunch, it is all, take, take, take. Israel is a position of strength, and these Pals delude themselves by playing hard to get. In the end, they will get nothing. Everything they want today, they could have had in '66 and '67, before the so-called occupation. Why didn't they jump at it then ?? Simply, they want more than their State, they want ours, too. That is why, in a nutshell, there can never be peace. Not with this group of palestinians who live in la-la land. You're correct, they will reject every offer of compromise. Thankfully for Israel.
No Israeli leader would DARE give AN INCH of our precious land away piecemeal..They may say they will,but their FUTURE wuld be dire because the Israeli public will PROTEST and throw away the bums if they go down that road.. AS you OR I have said many a time rightly so too... It is not wanting a state ,BUT REPLACING IT WITH THEIR OWN throwing out Jews into the sea.. They may wish so, will NEVER become a reality. Let me emphasize once more : at the end of the day: THERE WILL BE A MOTHER OF ALL WARS COMBINED..And we will (as usual) WIN THE DAY.. A sorry state of affairs it may be,but INEVITABLE.. Idon't want it,BUT no other alternative.......
Thus what is left inside these two borders would be a carved-up Palestinian reservation totally enclosed and cut off by Israeli territory. In this manner Israel could slowly strangle the Palestinian state by controlling border entry and transportation of goods and products.
since israel refuse a palestinians stat why have talks?
End this charade. No false peace with these liars. Israel can never offer them enough, while the Palestinians offer nothing. Nobody can name one Palestinian concession.
They should stop all activity for a separate state, cede all the West Bank to Israel and demand full Israeli citizenship.
They'll never become Israeli citizens. We all know how that would end up. Just look at Tibi and Zoabi multiplied by a million. They're welcome to go to Jordan. We'll even help them pack.
just look up history of east jerusalem from the conquest in 1948 to the liberation in 1967: "Jews of all countries and non-Jewish Israelis were barred from entering Jordan and therefore could not travel to the area. Tourists entering East Jerusalem had to present baptismal certificates or other proof they were not Jewish" : that will never ever be allowed to happen again
Their people deserve better than this corrupt leadership. They're not interested in negotiations. The biggest mistake Israel made was recognizing them and freezing Settlements. Thank you, Peres. Haven't you damaged us enough ? End all contact with this entity. They will never get an inch of the land they falsely claim.
Facts are what they are, the wall has helped and the PA/PLO, and all the other organizations continue with Arab nationalism and no will to introspect. Netanyahoo knows this and plays it back to his nationalistic tendencies. Difference is Israel, en mass, is not calling to wipe out anyone. Just keep building the wall, pull out and be done with these merry go round "talks."
And how does that end the occupation, Yoni? The IDF won't be "pulling out" of all the occupied territory, merely consolidating itself on the occupied territory that lies behind that wall. That won't bring peace. That won't bring an end of conflict.
The land was conquered by a war you started in 1967, and LOST. No tricks, plain and simple. Had you not went to war, you would still have the land, perhaps under Jordanian rule. If you want to fight, you will be crushed. Of that there is no doubt.
since the whole region,and for that matter,the whole world has changed and moved on,I suspect that this will be the last opportunity for concessions to be made by Israel before this turns once more into major conflict,with who knows what repercussions.
then there is just about scope for an outline agreement on future borders. Israel gets the land up to the security barrier, but there are three red lines. (1) It depends on Israel being able to provide 1:1 land swops to compensate for the land it gains. This has not been the case in the past, the small pockets of land it has offered in the Bet Sheahan valley, the Lachish salient etc do not add up to 8% let alone 10%. Israel is going to have to dig deeper or cut its aspirations. (2) Four projecting fingers of land into Palestine are non-starters, they cut across Pal communications and advance Israel to the edge of major Pal towns like Nablus, Ramallah and Bethlehem. These projecting fingers at Emmanuel, Barkan/Arial and Efrat won't fly and the Ma'ale Adumim one would need to be cut back to Ma'ale Adumim itself, not extending to the edge of Jericho. (3) There will have to be international resolution of Jerusalem. While the big Jewish settlements in the north and south - Neve Yaacov, Gilo etc, could be transferred to Israel, Arab East J'sem is another matter. I have yet to meet an Israeli who has actually been East of the Old City, Israel has no strategic interest there in absorbing close to 100,000 East J'sem Arabs - only the ultra-religious and ultra nationalist keep up the drumbeat of the undivided Jerusalem. In reality, the east is Al Quds, the west is Jerusalem and the dividing line is route 60. It would be politically difficult - therefore for the right politically impossible - to accept the division, which is why the Quartet and world powers need to impose it. It may seem illogical to have a Jewish Jerusalem and an internationally-controlled Al Quds, but that is the practical outcome. The remaining question is that of Israeli military bases in the Jordan Valley. If the JV goes to Area B status - PA civil and police authority - then it might be feasible to lease Israel certain military bases there, as say NATO allies had in Germany until recently, and provide them with controlled access, as long as the overall security control is in the hands of an international military authority. That would be necessary to ensure that the former occupier didn't start creating new reasons to interfere in the civil administration or ambitious new plans to make the Israeli presence more than an agreed short-term military presence. It was always a stupid idea to build major Jewish settlements so far into Palestine and Arial, Emmanuel and Efrat are the inevitable casualties of that extremist policy.
But still it is too much to give up from the Palestinian side....Israelis must accept the fact that Palestinians already gave up 78% of what belongs to them.
We left lebanon under the impression that the UN was supposed to stop hezbolah from building up arms. Look how well that worked. arabs are not to be trusted when it comes to jewish life.
Let us not forget that the majority of land of the Palestine Mandate is Jordan. Any land swaps must take that into consideration.
Jews were forced out of Israel by wars and persecution. Borders have been changed time after time. This time the Israelis are dictating the borders. Accept, leave, or fight. This is the history of mankind. But this time as Jews we will not allow ourselves to be slaughtered like lambs. We will make it difficult for you this time.
It does not matter if the peace talks fail. With or without a Palestinian state the Palestinians will always have a doctrine to fulfill .The total destruction of the Jewish state. Until that hurdle can be overcome no need to discuss any thing regarding a Palestinian state,
One can recognise a bigot in any crowd and you stand out a mile dear.
Even people of the same Arab / Islamic country cannot accept one another. The sectarian violence is constant.
Seems that Bibi has made it known what tracts of land are requested. Now it is time to slug it out on the negotiating table.
It's their choice of course. Yet another missed ocassion.