Mayor defends plan to raze Palestinian homes in East Jerusalem

I'm guessing you're American, Brant, brought up on stories of settlers seizing land at gunpoint from the locals and creating a new nation by bringing in people from across the sea. The USA and Israel have quite a lot in common which is probably why the USA has been Israel's strongest supporter. However, if you look at the history of modern Europe, most people eventually give back almost all the land they take. You say Russia kept the tiny Kiril islands. Well, yes, and rather more significantly it kept Konigsberg/Kaliningrad too, but it gave back the whole of the rest of Eastern Europe and half of Germany. Don't you think that's rather more important? Israel will eventually give back almost all the land it captured. The only question is how many lives and how many years will be wasted before it does.

Michael, Eastern Europe (i.e., Poland, Czhechoslovakia, Romania, Bolgaria, Hungary, East Germany) was never "part of Russia." These countries were part of the Warsaw Block, their governments were puppets of Moscow, but still they had their own statehood, so Russia could not and did not "give them back" (back--to whom?). When Communism died in the former Soviet Union, then Communist governments in the eastern block countries could not hold on to power anymore and they gave in to the pressure of their own so called "velvet revolutions". These were not the fifteen republics of the Sov. Union (many of which found statehood they hadn't been struggling for); these were sovereign states _under_ Soviet influence.

Reality is that ONLY India and Israel, among countries that have won territory after WW-2, have EVER given back any of the won territories! Also, that only happened when the recipient RECOGNISED THE victor's right to exist as a nation--which PA never has with Israel. And another thing: there NEVER in history has been an Arab nation of "Palestine" (in fact, the word is IMPOSSIBLE to pronounce in Arabic) and never will be since "Palestinians" are descended from Edomites (a people DIVINELY PROSCRIBED from ever again having a nation of their own as of 605 BC)!

ALL countries put their own interests first if they are not bothered about international laws and if they know they can break them and get away with it if its in their interests they will break them. Israel is not unique in that attitude. Israeli governments are not elected to make sure Israel is a law abiding member of the international community they are there to put Israel first the rest of the world second. Sorry tony but thats how the REAL world works ALL countries put their own interests first and laws second.

East Jerusalem does not belong to Israel and there is not a single country in the world that recognizes Israel's jurisdiction there. Thus the authorities in the city of Jerusalem cannot do anything "legally" in Silwan.

The public amenities like municipal park are determined by master plan (or Taba, in Israel). The so called master plan for Jerusalem 2000 is not yet in effect and . What "decades ago" are you talking about? There were many urban schemes, all partial and blatantly reflecting the geopolitical and demographic interests of the State. To start with, "In US" the building permit and urban planning policy cannot be so discriminatory. I've lived in East Jerusalem for years. My street was less than 100 m away from the "Jewish" part. There was never an asphalt paved in this street. It never had a name nor have buildings ever had numbers. No light at night. Weekly garbage collection (in 40°C!), one waste container for the neighborhood of few hundred souls. Do you want me to tell you about the "Jewish" part of the same neighborhood? I lived there for three years too.

Logios, thanks for a lucid response. The article said the city will help the displaced families find other homes in Silwan. It did not say anything about financial help or remuneration - that should be a given.

There do seem to be plans for additional housing solutions - "The new plan for Silwan allows for the addition of thousands of housing units for the Arab sector. The new park and tourism center will also provide employment for dozens of Silwan residents. It's not the municipal workers who are tone deaf - but the media and all other Israel bashers who only hear oneside of the story - razing Palestinian homes.

they allow for thousands of arab housing and not raze those 22

Chana, let me suggest that you also read Cate's response to my post. If you know the value of money, you will understand that there is no plan at present to actually PAY the displaced to build new homes. It takes MONEY to build purchase land and build a home on it, even if you have a permit to do so. Money does not grow on trees, nor does it become available when you imagine it. Just as an experiment, in case you do not realize this, why don't YOU underwrite the cost of rebuilding these 22 houses. You will solve the present problem, become a national hero, and learn something in the process. I guarantee it.

If there is a "plan" for adding thousand of housing units in the Silwan area, it means that there is free space there. Before you know it, there will be a plan to build a new Jewish neighborhood in that free space. And if this does not happen, Arabs will still not get permits to build there. The reasons Arabs are forced to build illegal houses is that it is extremely difficult to get building permits for them The authorities are trying to get Arabs to move out of the city this way. The bottom line: Undoubtedly the available area is not open for building yet and who knows what will be built there.

If you refer to the Holyland affair and its criticism in Israel as an indicator of Israeli democracy, this argument has the same fallacy as the one about Athenian democracy. It had democratic features, which however combined massive slave system. Absence of, or conflict with the democratic features is the real indicator of democracy today. According to your argument, Iran can claim the title of democracy on the basis of its elective mechanisms. Regardless if you referred to Holyland affair, the municipal (local) and state authorities around the globe stand in one hierarchy the first being subject to other. Roughly put, the state power deals with political issues while city council - with pragmatic ones. If fact, the party adherence in many municipal elections is de-emphasized (and AFIK, in Minneapolis is eliminated in primary municipal elections). Jerusalem town authority routinely behaves as if this order was reverse, and the mayor dictates the PM. Netanyahu is far from being against mayor's Judaisation of Jerusalem district, but it causes embarrassing conflicts with the official state policy abroad, with the political self-image of the state. The reason of this paradox of Jerusalem local authority subjecting city to the political interests of the state authority is the fact that Jerusalem's political status is unresolved. This conflict dates back to the first British Mandate plan for the city (McLean) in 1917. All the city land purchase in the beginning of twenties was a one sordid political story. The difference is that back then the Zionist geopolitical domination in the city had to face the "neutral" British mandatory administration, whereas today the State of Israel wages this territorial battle against the powers of the world that refuse to acknowledge Israel's occupation of the East Jerusalem & territories.

Cate....OK let's keep this comparison going. What would you say if this disparity existed in the City of Minneapolis. "Neglect of infrastructure and services in Palestinian neighborhoods East Jerusalem residents are required to pay taxes like all city residents. However, they do not receive the same services. The Jerusalem Municipality has continuously failed to invest significantly for infrastructure and services (such as roads, sidewalks, water and sewage systems) in Jerusalem's Palestinian neighborhoods. Since the annexation of Jerusalem, the Municipality has built almost no new school, public building, or medical clinic for Palestinians. The lion's share of investment has been dedicated to the city's Jewish areas. Less than 10 percent of the Municipality's development budget for 1999 was allocated for Palestinian neighborhoods, although the population there represents a third of the city's residents. The lack of investment has left infrastructure in East Jerusalem in a deteriorated state: Entire Palestinian neighborhoods are not connected to a sewage system and do not have paved roads or sidewalks; Almost 90 percent of the sewage pipes, roads, and sidewalks are found in West Jerusalem; West Jerusalem has 1,000 public parks, East Jerusalem has 45; West Jerusalem has 34 swimming pools, East Jerusalem has three; West Jerusalem has 26 libraries, East Jerusalem has two; West Jerusalem has 531 sports facilities, East Jerusalem has 33. Israel's treatment of Palestinian residents is shameful and violates their dignity. Such is the case at the East Jerusalem office of the Ministry of the Interior. The caseload is large, and processing takes months. The number of personnel receiving applicants is insufficient. Residents have to wait in line from the middle of the night until morning to enter the office, and many have to leave in the afternoon without having gained entry. On more than one occasion, persons who entered the office were sent home without being attended to. The residents wait on the street, in front of the gate, with no protection against sun or rain. They wait in cramped conditions between two iron poles. Most of the time, the line is long and residents have to wait on the sidewalk or in the road. Guards open the gate two or three times in the morning to allow a few dozen people to enter. More than once, complaints have been made against the guards for degrading and arrogant treatment, for violent behavior, and for punishing those in line by closing the office in response to complaints by the residents. These phenomena do not appear in the office in West Jerusalem where individuals can directly enter the reception hall which contains sufficient seating and where numbers are given, allowing people to leave for an hour or so before their number is called. Treatment of the applicants is also different, as the following shows: The forms in the East Jerusalem office are written only in Hebrew, although the population is Arabic-speaking. Consequently, the many applicants who do not read Hebrew depend on the good will of the clerks to explain what documents have to be brought, or they have to leave the office and pay for a translation of the document, and then wait again in line. In the West Jerusalem office, the public can wait in comfort in the hall and even use the cafeteria in the building and drink from the water coolers, while in East Jerusalem, persons wanting to enter have to wait in undignified conditions in long, cramped lines for hours outside the building. There is no elevator or special access for the disabled or for strollers. In West Jerusalem, it is possible to obtain services (for example, to renew passports) by mail. The East Jerusalem office does not offer this option. In West Jerusalem, the office is open in the afternoon, application forms are available at the entrance, clerks are available to provide information, and signs directing the public are situated in the entryway. These amenities are not provided in the East Jerusalem office. On Monday, 25.9.00, a hearing was held at the High Court of Justice on the petition filed by the Association for Civil Rights in Israel and the Jerusalem Center for Social and Economic Rights, concerning the conditions and regulations at the Population Registry Office of the Ministry of the Interior in East Jerusalem. The HCJ ordered state representatives to meet with representatives of the petitioners and to find a solution to the problems raised in the petition. Due to pressure exerted by the judges, immediate improvement of a few main problems was agreed upon. However, a solution to all the problems was not agreed upon. On 6 June 2001, the High Court of Justice dismissed the petition even though the Ministry of the Interior did not meet its commitments and despite the fact that most of the conditions and procedures at the Ministry of the Interior remained unchanged. In 2003, another petition was filed on this issue. The petition was file by a private individual, Rofa Jabara, who was represented by Attorney Yosef Schwartz. In December 2003, in the framework of the petition, the High Court of Justice ruled that the physical conditions at the East Jerusalem office were extremely unreasonable and that the public had the right to receive services under proper conditions and within a reasonable period of time. The High Court ordered the Ministry of the Interior to move the office to a new structure in the Mamoniya complex by July 2005. The Court also ordered the Ministry to increase the number of clerks in the office from twenty-nine to forty-two, and to extend the hours it is open to the public."

No one ever suggested that the mayor of any city is a negotiating partner with the Pals. If you do want to go down that route, this tension is peanuts in comparison to the Fatah vs Hamas conflict. Who is Israel "supposed to negotiate with" when you 2 different authorities of THE SAME level of authority.

Of course the Palestinians will be allowed to build! All they need to do is get the necessary permits and...oh.

did you ever think that what he has attemped to do is in israels best intrest for security. which makes what he did his job.

there is no justification for such an act without taking into consideration 1-national priorities and interests 2-the opinions and desires on inhabitants and neighbours after detailed information largely difused in their neighbourhood in a comprehensible language.

sure, we Americans will butt out and take our three billion USD in yearly aid, as well as all our military aid. Great idea. Thanks for suggesting it

Which Jewish evictions from Arab neighbourhoods should Obama have cried foul on? I must've missed that story.

i welcome US intervention in israel, but if you want to pay the money card, then at least be honest enough to recognize that the money the US gives Israel is mostly spent on weapons that Israel either buys from the US, or that it produces and shares with the US. Its not a free handout as you make it sound. Also, perhaps one day, ppl like you will also suggest the US stop funding the PA. After all, its been close to 20 years and they have shown VERY little for it. in fact, the PLO managed to get voted out, in large part because of corruption. Hard american dollars at work yes

oh, i'd be very happy to see those dollars directed away from the military-industrial complex. and of course your whole point is misconceived, because it's still a free hand-out to Israel, even if a tiny number of americans benefit from it

you specifically decried the money given to israel, but use the vague "military-industrial complex." I guess that was an admission of sorts that the PA should no longer be given handouts because have very little to show for it. Real honesty would have been a statement like "Israel and the Pals mis-use American funds. therefore none should be provided to either." Your "free handout" amounts to a. subsidy for the US military b. increased security/intelligence thanks to Israel technology developed with US dollars and shared with the US. Apparently, Obama et al don't consider this "tiny."

... it's not Obama's responsibility...

you continue to miss the point. Israel can't accept 3 billion USD in yearly aid and then demand the USA "butt out." If the palestinian authority hasn't advanced peace much (they've had no serious peace partner) is irrelevant

and your claim that the US has greater security via its relationship to Israel is risible

the first line in my post "i welcome US intervention in israel." Petra could speak for herself regarding the "butt out" comment. My point is, when the PA makes a "butt out" diplomatic statement, like being BEGGED to go for proximity talks etc, no one suggests that the US isn't getting its money's worth, many are all too understanding that the PA must do what is best for its citizens, not what is best for Obama. Is idependent policy welcome ONLY if its by players other than Israel. As for the PA: forget diplomatic/foreign/peace aspect of the it's failures. Do you realize that we're only beginning to talk of state building NOW? after 20 freaking years of EU/US cash being pumped in the sysetm? Could you even fathom the incredible waste of time and resources?

i am no security analyst to make a statement about US security overall. my point was, the cash the US gives Israel largely flows back to the US via military spending in US-made equipment. Also the US reaps the benefits of the aid thru technology sharing etc. Therefore, the US benefits significantly. Therefore, the money it gives Israel is not a handout as you suggest . Simple enough, no? Whether the US could do better or not, i don't know, but the US aid is not welfare or charity, its a strategic choice.

it may make you feel better to reduce the slight betterment in US ME policy to "what Obama wants," but the fact is Israeli policy is moving so far rightward that it's alienating people like me and many other americans. As for the aid being a strategic choice, there may be an element to that, and certainly to your point about the US arms industry, but another element is AIPAC and its unholy alliance with the Christian Right, as well as many other well-funded and powerful Jewish insitutions. And the US gives Israel loan guarantees, loan forgiveness and other perqs no other country gets. Face it: Israel accepts US charity. If it were an even relationship, Israel wouldn't be so afraid of upsetting the US. But AGAIN, my comment was directed to Petra's "butt out." If someone from Egypt said that about US involvement in Egyptian foreign policy I'd have said the same

Obama has no the right to tell you what to do, but he has the "right" to pay all your bills? You are kidding!

if they decided to proceed with demolition it means that legally the issue is fully justified. The only consideration left out is political. Would you stop building your house to please our president? And at the same time, do you think our president will draw some line in our cities where you are not permitted to build? The question is not rhethorical. He does it to ( exclusively ) Jewish residents of Israel right now.

Israel cannot legally do anything in East Jerusalem because it isn't theirs.

if those Jerusalemites are white and Jewish.

"Let the "politicians" get out of the way and allow him to proceed to make life better for all Jerusalemites." Not to be petty but a better life for all in East Jerusalem must be jointly determined by the Arabs and Jews living there.

Anyone who has spent any time on this issue knows the law is not apllied equally to Pals and Israeli's Arabs can't get permits, Jews can. Don't insults yourself with your ignorance.

Whether the buildings are legal or illegal is of no consequence when dealing with the place of Israel in the world. Without US support it would be completely isolated. Barak is in Washington and can measure the attitude of Israel's only ally, and will know what has and has not to be done. We don't need the comments of an armchair amateur at this sensitive time.

Its not fair to apply building regulations to arabs because the arabs want Jerusalem. If it involves pulling down a single arab house its unacceptable. Arab supporters seem to conveniently forget that wherever you are in the world if you build without permits the building can be pulled down and if the municipality wants to do something for the benefot of the city they can order compulsory purchase.

East Jerusalem is an occupied territory and by international law, Jewish settlements/construction are not allowed. Furthermore, the Jewish laws put in place when they illegally annexed the territory has made it near impossible for Palestinians to acquire building permits. This is the Palestinians land by law, yet they are not allowed to build on it without biased permits. Do you really think they like to build 'illegal' housing knowing that at any time it could be destroyed? If the municipality run by the Jewish became more impartial to the building permits, their would be less illegal housing. Look further than just your nose, and connect the dots please

ron, read the black and white of the situation- illegally built homes! just because it is not in your neighborhood, the issue is still relevant. If you want to make exceptions to the rule of law for others and not yourself, keep running from the truth. In the meantime, Israel has its own government and laws and plans- usually fair to all sides, and no different from other countries. Every issue does not have to go before the UN, USA, EU and RON for approval. enough of this biased knee jerk reactions! Israel is in its so called rotten position simply because it let leftists run and capitulate to every foreign concern and not its own concerns. No other country would allow such interference take place. just amazing!

sure, the "illegal" palestinian homes will be destroyed but the illegal settler homes will be legalized. only in israel and among the benighted US religious right to they believe your immoral, delusional justifications

A Palestinian getting a permit to build in East Jerusalem? I have a friend there who has been trying for 15 years to get permission. He submits differnt plans, responding to the councils concerns, different sized house, pays all his fees, AND pays council tax - despite the fact the council provides no services as his home is 'illegal' (it was originally built before the 6 day war). What should he do?

and expected his chevra to support the move after clearing most of everyone's objections and hurdles. Yes, there are times when team players are vitally counted on for their unity in mission. Meretz seems to be on the opposing team too often and got the penalty call!

The Left can either vote with the coalition or choose to leave the coalition. No reason they get to benefit from being in the coalition and vote against it.

You can't pick and choose when you want to be holier than thou about coalitions. It has never been the case in the Knesset that dissenters from inside the coalition were booted out. If anything, they are the tails that wag the dog. But apparently not in the city. Barkat has been a settler man from the start.