Israeli, Palestinian negotiators clash at Jordan meeting
Saeb Erekat refused to let senior Israeli officer present Israeli stance on security issues; sides will meet for fifth time on Wednesday.
By Barak Ravid and Jack Khoury Tags: Benjamin Netanyahu PalestiniansA bitter confrontation broke out between the head of the Israeli negotiating team Yitzhak Molcho and chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat during their meeting In Jordan on Saturday, after Erekat refused to let a senior Israeli officer present the Israeli position on security arrangements.
An Israeli official familiar with the content of the talks said that, by all accounts, Erekat and Molcho exchanged harsh words in front of their stunned Jordanian hosts, with the argument reaching its peak when Prime Minister Netanyahu's envoy asked to present Israel’s position on security arrangements.
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Chief Palestinian negotiator Saeb Erekat earlier this month. |
| Photo by: Daniel Bar-On |
Molcho and Erekat are due to meet in Jordan on Wednesday for the fifth time, a day ahead of the January 26 deadline set by the Palestinians for Israel to present their position on the question of borders.
Israel has told the Palestinians it will present its position on the issue of borders by the end of March, but Molcho decided to bring with him to Saturday's meeting the head of the IDF strategic planning division, Brigadier-General Assaf Orion, in order to present in detail Israel’s position on security arrangements.
The presence of the Israeli officer surprised Erekat, who thought he was being ambushed. Erekat refused to let the officer, head of the IDF's strategic planning unit, Brig. Gen. Assaf Orion, read out a summary of Israel’s position on security arrangements and said that if the Israeli side is interested, it can pass them the written document.
“I do not have the mandate to negotiate security arrangements until you present detailed documents with your position on the issue of borders and on the security issue,” Erekat said.
Molcho responded with unusually harsh criticism of Erekat’s management of the Palestinian negotiating team.
“If you do not have the mandate to discuss this, maybe you should leave and bring someone in your place who does have the mandate,” he said.
After a few minutes the two sides decided to carry on discussing a different issue, and then Molcho brought up the issue of incitement against Israel in the Palestinian press, presenting Erekat with a booklet by an Israeli right-wing organization with examples of incitement from the Palestinian media.
He also read Erekat a number of quotes from the Mufti of Jerusalem, who quoted suras from the Koran calling for the killing of Jews at a Fatah conference broadcast on Palestinian television this week.
The Palestinians are threatening to leave the talks in Jordan if Israel does not declare its stance on borders by the January 26 deadline, which was set by the Mideast Quartet in September.
According to the senior Israeli official, the Palestinians will carry out the threat, leaving the talks and creating a diplomatic crisis to put pressure on Israel.
“The Palestinians are preparing the ground for abandonment and for closing the door,” the senior Israeli official said.
Mideast Quartet deadline is part of a four-month target for the two sides to present proposals on the key issues of future borders and security arrangements. The Palestinians believe the timeline expires on January 26. Israel says the clock doesn’t start ticking until negotiations are under way.
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Isreal aking peace with West Bank PalArabs and ignoring Hamas is not a two state solution. I will say that again. Israel and the West Bank PalArabs are not have a realistic discussion about peace. Until the PalArabs have one state and Gaza/Hamas gives up on their goal to destroy Israel, these talks will go nowhere. Everyone knows that. Israel is participating only to please Obama who needs discussions to bolster his reelection. Abbas wants discussions to demonstrate that the Israelis are not serious and the UN or the EU should force Israel. All Kinderspiel! Useless meetings.It is just show and tell.
I thought this person has resigned few months ago?
What should Israel offer to appease this strong and mostly "silent" partner to Fatah during these serious discussions?
It is vey clear that the Israeli sociaty is not ready to do peace, time after time negotiations fail and time is running out to do an acceptable compromise ,so let us leave these nonsense negotiations and future is capable in solving this complicated dialema only one solution ,one democratic state for the two people
As usual, look to the zionists to flip the reality. They go out of the procedure to follow for the two teams during their meetings by springing a new factor into play. The bring in extraneous things like some prpaganda sheet by Im Tirzu or such front group and then take the mufti's comments out of context (someone should provide Erekat with a copy of the hot seller, "The King's Torah"). Then Molcho accuses the palestinians of wanting to derail the talks. Pro forma. Par for the course. All part of the zionist agenda to avoid negotiations, pass the blame to the other side and keep on building and creating facts on the ground to will lead to the intended goal of one state from the Mediterranean to the Jordan for Jews only.
They have zero intention of making real compromises with the Jewish people. All they are interested in is trying to squeeze Israel like South Africa was in the 80's. Watch the other hand of the Palestinians. This evil attempt to compare Israel to apartheid SA is going to fail and the Palestinian people themselves are going to extract street justice with their current leadership. Two things could not be further from the truth. Israel is like apartheid South Africa and the Palestinian people are non-violent.
for the process, not doing what is on the agenda, and wasting time on other matters. Presenting right-wing booklets? How stupid can they get?
What they cannot settle they ought to submit to Boding Arbitration.
you would think they had won all the wars in the past. Fatah wants pre-1967 borders and half of Jerusalem, and will not settle for anything less - ie: negotiate. Abbas already turned down Olmert's offer, and he'll never get such a good deal again. Hamas in the meantime will keep on fighting to establish the glorious Islamic Republic of Palestine no matter what peace deal can be achieved.
What Olmert's offer ? israelis already turned down the Saudi peace offer and this is one was official and clear as water...not some lousy rumor ion order to save Israel's image. Stop talking about Israeli genereous peace offers. By definition the palestinians have lost all their land and hundreds of thousands of them expulsed.
The Palestinians think they are dealing from strength, They are living in delusion. Israel should shut down this farce ASAP. Let Abbas travel the World like the beggar he is. He will get nowhere, since they don't have a leg to stand on. The Palestinian pyramid scheme is so full of holes.
What's there to negotiate when the PA and Hamas' charters call for the liquidation of all Jews. There is no desire for peace when one side just wants you dead!
Oh !! now the Charter justification !! i thought we were not done with the Mufti !!!!!!!!!! don't try to find lousy excuses.....shall we have a look at israelis declarations regarding palestinian deportations or even Likoud's electoral platform ?? you make me laugh.
We will get the last laugh. The Palestinian flim-flam will fail. The World sees a modern nation, full of breakthroughs in technology and looks at your sorry people who do nothing but terrorize and destroy. The World can no longer put up with this cult of hatred and disregard for human life.
are two connected questions. When will the Pals ever get this? You cannot have one without solving the other! this time it is really clear who is blocking the "threatening" peace talks!
Israel is just dragging its feet to avoid relinquishing one inch of "Judea and Samaria". They want it all, and keep Palestinians penned in bantustans. They just can't say it openly.
Doors to endless negotiations is one of them...
Palestine is a poor country. Why does the richest most powerful nation on earth feel it necessary to bully this brave people and brave nation who have suffered so much for nothing. Have they no decency?
It is a figment of imagination. It can never be a country, until both parties agree. Until such time, we will refer to it as Never-Never Land.
Palestinians have talked for 62 years, and they got 500,000 settlers!
leadership failure. And if the PA continues to threaten us and continues to educate it's children in the ideology of murder they will find themselves surrounded by another 500,000 !!!
They talked for 62 years? Check some historical facts before you write your posts: The Palestinians and their Arab brethren tried war in 1948, 1967, 1973 plus two Intifadas, several terror campaigns and the occasional Gaza rocket attack. It's not that they don't deserve a state of their own, but considering their historical record of violance we just prefer to have a few safety measures in place, simple as that. And if Erekat does not have the mandate to also negotiate on security matters, then he should send somebody who does.
Do you really believe that the West will go to war with Iran unless they want to? Do you really believe that tiny Israel can MAKE the free world go to war with who ever they say? Your turning into a believer of the elders of Zion Michael without you even realising it.
Disgusting and disappointing.
They ask for proposals in writing, and not oral declarations that will be retracted the next day because "not understood correctly" or "taken out of context". I would rather hear what excuses you have for the Israeli reluctance to commit themselves to written proposals?
"Right of returm" violates Israel's security. Any possible border arrangement violates Israel's security. Palestinian freedom of movement violates Israel's security. Palestinian self determination violates Israel's security. Palestinian security forces violates Israel's security. The list goes on forever. It is ironic that the biggest threat to Israel's security is Israel's position on Israel's security.
all purpose term that has lost its meaning
exactly ! anything violates Israel's security. Considering the fact that Israel is a nuclear power and the palestinians have nothing, this is not only cynism, this is crookery. Those who should worry for their existence are the palestinians.
The only thing left for pals is to dissolve Palestinian Authority and ask to become israeli citizen, all the rest is waist of time..................
Palestinian negotiators talk about peace at international gatherings while Palestinian elected politicians such as the members of Hamas and Palestinian clerics reject the very existence of Israel and incite their constituents to murder Jews in the name of religion.Israel has every reason to be concerned about its security
If a rabbi calls for the killing and/or expulsion of all Palestinian, then he is branded a lunatic and his comments explained away. But if a Palestinian says something of similar nature, this he speaks on behalf of all Palestinians...
Why not present it in writing? This is a matter where details count. How can discuss Erekat the Israeli stance with his fellow politicians if he has only his memory as evidence? I say this is another variant of the low chair theme.
Must not be familiar with Palestinian/Israeli affairs. It is totally normal for palestine to demand to know Israels position on the borders of their country before negotiating.
PSM demands that Israel should be allowed to construct settlements on the land is being negotiated over. Not only is it a completely illogical demand, given that status quo is the only logical choice during negotiations. It is also an illegal one, given that the settlements are illegal under international law.
The Palestinians are wasting time; the Israelis will not give West Bank through peaceful means. The Palestinians can’t take it back by force, thus since all doors are close, the only way is left that the Palestinians start asking for rights within the state of Israel, and stop this madness.
what Israelis (and the Palestinians) do in these negotiations is a complete waste of time. Why? If we think about the situation in simple terms: there are two sides one that is powerful and exercises power on the ground (that is Israel) and one that is weak with no real authority or power. Given this fact and given the natural tendencies of "powerful" sides, the weak is always a looser. But when the two sides, regardless their differences, want to solve things it can always be solved. Why is it a problem for Israel to go back into 67 lines, give (E.) Jerusalem to the Pals as their capital, and let them be independent like any other country in the world? The answer can be as simple as Israel is more powerful and dictate what happens. Some may argue well why should Israel give the Pals these things, they should leave to Jordan or wherever. I say that Israel, although powerful, cannot really kick out the 4.5 millions living there and who actually belong the land whether Israel like it or not. Denying the facts at both sides is counterproductive. Both people can settle their differences if they want to. But the arrogance of the more powerful and the inability of the weak shape politics and negotiations. Therefore there will never be a solution but war, which is a sad reality.
There are million palestinians in the WB and Jerusalem. Shall i remind you East-Jerusalem is considered as occupied territory. Add another 1.5 from Gaza. There are 10 million palestinians on this planet waiting impatiently for Israel to stop its criminal activities, recognize the palesitinians and leave them alone. Thanks,
How could anyone hate israel? This beloved nation of occupation, annexation, wall-building, settlement-building, semi-apartheid, blockade, collective punishment, rejection of peace, rejection of law etc How could anyone possibly hate israel?
Neither UN nor EU is going to recognize "Palestine" without the utmost guarantees for security of Israel. Full stop!
Now where do we get the facts.
Now where do we get the facts.
"The Palestinians are threatening to leave the talks in Jordan if Israel does not declare its stance by the set deadline". A funny way to talk.
But I would love to know their position on boarders.
And this is wny Erekat spoke out. Of course, the Israeli delay tactics are nothing new. They have been doing this for 30 years.
During the Oslo Accords, and for years afterwards, it was absolutely understood by both sides that Israel would maintain tracks of the West Bank with major Israeli population centers, and in return giving up other areas that are not heavily populated in return. The remaining sticky issue was Jerusalem. Since the inauguration of President Obama, the Palestinians have totally backtracked on what was and are demanding their borders will be the 1967 lines period. No consideration for Israeli security needs. No consideration for past agreements. The Palestinians are just blasting their way in and out of negotiations and pointing their finger at Israel because that is the way they (falsely) believe they will get better bargaining power.
This shows the fallacy of the US idea of getting the two sides talking while the Quartet sits out the dance. The Occupier, who doesn't want to give anything up, is never going to concede independence and territory to the Occupied without strong international pressure.The Quartet needs to summon them both, look at what they have both presented and reach a decision on borders and security. The fact that Israel has failed to put forward proposals as requested is its loss, the PA ones must become the default ones, upon which final decisions are made. If the Quartet can't do that, it will have failed to rise to its international duty and should wind itself up. The PA will then be free to take their case to the UNGA and begin direct action to end the occupation.
Good, let them abandon their positions and in leave for Iran. Don't stop them.
Haven't we learned anything from decades of useless negotiations... as an arab christian i have always been anti-hamas, but perhaps they had it right all along...
There are many palestinians inside and outside they are starting to believe that negociating and talking to the israelis is useless. They will always have a good reason not to do anything while at the same time building in the territories. Many palestinians chose Hamas not for religious reasons but for political reasons. One day Israel will have to talk to Hamas but there will be another bigger enemy and even less territories. Perhaps the one state solution will become a consequence. Too bad for Israel.
I understand your frustration. There's plenty of frustration on all sides. But we've got to keep our eye on the ball. The goal is recognition of each other's humanity and finding a compromise that's equally satisfactory (and equally unsatisfactory) to all sides. We'll get there if we keep trying. But embracing hatred and violence is certainly the wrong path. Peace.
And for those who really support Hamas or think they may be right...well...supporting Hamas will only perpetuate the conflict, so, if you really wish the good for the palestinians, you should concider stop fighting...the talks is been running for 20 years, the conflic up to six decades...so if you don't want to your grandchildren been discussing the same subjects, start negotiating, but negotiating for real...Israel won't get it all, neither will the palestinians...better accept the idea of compromising, or you guys won't have your state in our lifetime.
Very well said, you should write more, we need encouragement.
It's up to Israel to decide what it wants, not the palestinians. It's up to Israel to decide whether it's going to leave the territories and therefore recognize a palestinian state. What's left today ? less than 22% for the palestinians. Israel controls the Jordan Valley (ie 60% of the WB). The palestinians do not have a contigueous state with more than a hundred settlements all over the WB, do not have a border with Jordan, do not have priority access to water, are not allowed to settle where they want, are refused access to Gaza...etc....How is peace possible ? and you want the palestinians to make concessions, to compromise ? Israel keeps that conflict going and going. Building in the territories keeps the hatre and frustration alive. Don't tell us Israel does not know that. And as long as Israel has military power, this is can carry for another 100 years. Israel has the keys of peace.
I am so called "secular" Palestinian and so called "Westernized" even though I don't think I know what that should mean. I lived and got educated in fine parts of Europe. I used to believe in a two state solution. But not anymore. I can't predict the future, but I can't see it happening. And I don't want it to happen either. Maybe a one state where all are buddies isn't happening soon either, but at least an Israeli sovereignty over the whole one land and rights given to the Palestinians of the whole one land whether Israel likes it or not is unavoidable. I hope for that and advocate for that. We hope by the end of our lifetime, we will remind each other with this.
There is plenty of frustration within Israel relating to income inequality, housing problems etc. There is also significant frustration between the various sectors of Israeli Jewish sectors - the secular vs the ultra orthodox etc. But most Israeli Jews are pretty much content to continue the seige on Gaza, maybe a duck shoot or two there some time in the future, continue settlements, demolish Bedouin homes, arbitrarily detain Palestinian children etc. These things do not worry or frustrate most Israeli Jews. And you expect Palestinians, those who have no power, to just keep their eye on the ball in fake peace games whilst your territorial Zionist friends occupy another bit of land.
Nice message. However you should understand israelis and palestinians are not equal. Israelis do not care about the palestinians as long as their daily life is not disturbed. Israelis care about housing or the price of milk. Palestinians care about check points and how they're going to visit their family and if they''ll ever come back. Don't compare the two as if they were equaly treated. It's far from being the case. Both futures have different perspective that you simply ignore.
When it comes to Palestinian legitimate rights the Israelis are blind & deaf
Israel will always have 1 million security reasons. Israel has the most powerful army in the region (be far) and uses this argument against the palestinians ??? is this hilarious or simply yet again crookery from the israeli side ? as long as Israel does not respect the palestinians, there will be no peace at all.
Actually the palestinians have presented their proposals 20 years ago but that obviously was not enough. Israel wants more and more land and has no intentions to leave anything to the palestinians. Therefore Israel's tactic is simple. Use its force against the palesitinians, create facts on the ground, pretend it's doing its very best to destroy outposts while building more settlements, requesting millions of crazy security reasons and garantees, gain time, strengthen and weaken palestinians parties, arrest deputies etc etc etc......this has been going on for decades !!!!!!
Makes you wonder why
The Nov 29 1947 UN Mandate border will not fly. That is basically what Erekat wants. Too little too late.
What are Israel's borders ? do you or any israeli know the answer ? Israel is not done with its territorial apetite. Don't blame the palestinians. Blame Israel for its policy. It's the occupier. The more you occupy and grab land, expulse and oppress the local populations, the less security you will get. But Israel knows that already...........