Israel: Palestinians have set 'impossible' conditions for direct peace talks

2008 was not that long ago. your OWN proposed "map" for the palestinian state involves going back to 67 (legal) borders. and you can't build on someone else's (proposed) land. i fail to see the issue here.

Israel's pretexts are wearing a bit thin. There have been no Gaza rocket casualties in over a year. (Total since they began in fall, 2001 is 28.) There have been no suicide bombings in over three years and no concerted suicide bombing campaign in nearly a decade. Yet the settlements continue. Why should the Palis give Bibi the photo op of "direct talks" while he annexes East Jerusalem, denies the right of return and imprisons Gaza? Abu Mazen is right. Soon there will be nothing to negotiate about. And then what will Israel do to perpetuate the charade?

When or if direct talks start. Any future Palestinian State must agree " with the exception of local constabulary, the state must remain verifyably de-militarilized." This demand is backed by the majority of both Kadima & Likud

If it really is a bluff, that will come out prety soon. And if it isn't, Abbas is making a bigmistake. Another lost opportunity? As I've written before, the man's a craven coward.

We talk; they [Israel's enemies] are for war.

If A) the world sees the construction in the West Bank as illegal B) the world sees the 1967 lines as roughly the legitimate boundaries between the two states C) The Ehud Olmert talks were the closest peace has been so far. Then why are the demands impossible. Abbas isn't talking because he doesn't think the Israelis are serious. Based on this "impossible demands" statement he has a point.

It is even funnier that Netanyahu and his ultra right wing coalition are pining for peace talks. This is a safe position for them, since this peace has never yet come from talks and is even less likely than usual considering the most right wing Israeli government ever, coupled with a weak kneed America president. There is an old axiom which applies very well. Whatever action your worst enemy wants you to take, you should avoid at all costs. Bibi does not look like a man eager to withdraw from the settlements and hand over the west bank to the Palestinians. That's all Abbas needs to know.

The only solution to the problem that the current government of Israel would entertain would be the evacuation by Palestinians of all Judea and Samaria.

The USA needs to exert their leverage on Israel. There is no way Israel will ever move forward. Their actions, settlement building, shows their intent. The USA was willing to sacrifice American blood in Iraq for less a cause. It's time they ended this occupation.

How else is one to know and 'get along' with the other party unless they talk directly with each other. As a kid, ever play 'broken telephone'? The longer Abbas balks at direct talks the longer Israeli's will get a chance to built on more Judean and Samarian land that is west of the Jordan adn potentially keep it. He has only himself to blame for this nonsense tactic.

It is time for Israel to state that it is upto the Palestinians to talk to Israel if they want peace and a state of their own, otherwise they can live with the status quo.

First, Israel does not have 1967 borders. Those were armistice lines. The Arabs did not recognize Israel, so borders do not exist. Second, Why should Israel agree to give up bargaining positions before they even get to the bargaining table? Bargaining is give and take, and you do not show your card before you enter negotiations. Third, the Palestinians rejected Olmert's peace plan. Why should the Israelis return to such a plan when it was rejected? Fourth, Abbas, speaking in Arabic, has said that these negotiations are the first step to the destruction of Israel.

Israel profits by avoiding peace. The profit is expanded settlements, American aid, and pacification of Israels right wing. Israel also profits by talking peace. The profit is even more American aid and concessions, and pacification of the EU and other international critics. As a result, we have entered into an age in which peace talks are the real goal and real peace is an undesirable side effect to be avoided at all costs. The Palestinians recognize this. In fact, most of the world recognizes this. The question is, how long will American politicians be able to keep up the pretence that Israel seeks peace. Abbas is justified and correct in taking his stance against direct peace talks. The indirect talks have been entirely fruitless. Israel cannot even be bothered to take the indirect talks seriously. Their right wing government clamors for direct talks, which is their only goal. Real peace is farther away than ever. The biggest problem, in a word, is Obama.

Land acquired by war is illegal and cannot be annexed without the express recognition of the stakeholders.250UN res. The Arabs have no intention of continuing to dance to Israel shifty melodies about negotiations. They have stated their case, Israel adhere to ALL aspects of their self imposed obligation or the Arabs will not be giving recognition to the illegal belligerent occupation outside the sovereign borders of the Jewish state UN181, no matter how many Palestinians Israel slaughters.

In what sense could the common sense be impossible? Only in the sense of Bibi, Lieberman, settlers, lefties, and the like-minded people. Millions of Palestinian aspiring for an independent state where they can live in peace and dignity has become something impossible in Israel. Perhaps what constitutes such a state is even more impossible such as Jerusalem, borders, resources, security, etc. One would ask WHY? Why would anyone deny their rights to live just like any other people in the world? If anyone would say that Israel has left Gaza and now Hamas is ruling there I would ask, are you serious about that? No real independence, full control over land, borders, sky, and water! Isn't that absolute occupation! My fear is that this struggle will continue as long as this cancerous occupation grows up. When would the free people and the free world help the Pals just live there lives? Israel has made it impossible...

If Israel's government didn't give answers on border and security during the proximity talks, why move to direct talks? because they won't give answers in direct talks either.

Abbas knows that if he goes in there without the pre conditions he put forth it will be too much of a gamble for him to know if someone as right wing as BIbi will make enough concessions in direct nagotians to give Palestinians the bare minimum of what they will agree on.This will cause the Palestinian people to lose faith in Fatah, Hamas will gain control which would undermine any hope of two state solution for years and years. .Because of Salam Fayyad, theWest Bank is increasingly becomeing less radical and more economically stable. Abbas knows he'll be able to eventually declare a unilatal Palestinian state with the backing of the international community and doesn't need Israel to do it. It's a political game and for the first time in history the Palestinians have the upper hand, and I'm hoping the ability to create a peaceful state along side Israel :) Wouldn't it be ironic if in the end , despite their history of irationality and violence, the Palestinians are the ones to out menuver the israelis and are shown as peace loving victors claiming their freedom after all these years. It might not happen but hey, it's a pleasant day dream..

All previous talks failed due to the fact that the Palis don't want to sign an agreement.

Abbas sets conditions that Israel simply does not need to listen to. Does he really believe that he is negotiating from a position of strength? Why should Israel come to the table with these kind of pre-conditions? Clearly the Palestinians are oblivious to the fact that the defeated do not dictate terms

The 3 preconditions are essentially nonstarters intended to place the onus for failure on the Jewish State.Thus,the Pals again lose another opportunuty to improve their peoples' lives and provide the conditions under which they can grow and prosper.The Pals want it all and expect the world to pressure Israel to give the "all" to them.Since a state of war still exists between them, the Pals will suffer, while Israel's future is merely inconvenienced at times,but continues to expand with economic growth and military strength.

Normally I would always support talks, but really, in this case, they're a complete waste of time. It's clear from the start that Bibi can;t and won't deliver the minimum necessary for peace so what's to talk about? The weather? Bibi and Obama only want talks so they can cynically proclaim them as a great breakthrough even though they they know they will lead nowhere. Ultimately there's not even really a need for talks. Everybody knows pretty much where evrybody stands on all the issues, What's needed is action, primarily from israel because it's Israel who is stealing Pal land and keeping the Pals captive, not the Pals stealing israeli land and keeping Israelis captive.

Starting a direct talk to impose their rules: more land, more settlements and kicking palestinians out because they have nothing in common! Simply a theft. These thieves should withdraw to 1976 borders and shut up. Wonder why UN sanctions doesn't apply and US is still pouring its money on them. Cancer of the middle east.

Settlement construction, borders, Jerusalem, ROR can only be determined face to face. We all know this - it is silly to deny the obvious. The only reason to not enter direct talks is to avoid resolution of conflicts and accomplish the supposed goal - a Palestinian state alongside Israel.

Don;t see a 'Palestinian State any time in the near future sorry. Ridiculous to start from where the last Prime Minister ended off. Every new PM has his ideas and they may not be the same as the last. Abbass can not simply Order and Demand. It's not ethical, there are two sides after all.

...has been eager, very eager to achieve an accommodation of peaceful coexistence between the nation-state of the Jewish people, Israel, and the Muslim-Arab world, both local and regional, but has been facing time and again with a wall of refusal. Mr. Netanjahu of course is not unique among Israel's leaders. Every single leader of the state of Israel, since its proclamation in May 1948, has offered a hand of peace to the Muslim-Arabs, only to be rejected, and when finally peace deals have been signed and implemented, e.g. with Egypt, with Jordan, they turned out to be cold peace implementation. It appears there is only one reason for this rejection: Israel demands that any peace deal will be accompanied by two simple acts: 1) An acceptance by the Muslim-Arab counterparts of the right of Israel to be - not only the fact that it is - to exist as the nation-state of the Jewish people. And, 2) an acceptance of a peace deal as the "end of the conflict". So far the Muslim-Arab leadership, both local and regional, has refused to meet these two simple requirements since they contradict the very ethos and goal of the Muslim-Arabs which is the hope to bring the demise of Israel sooner or later, through a full scale war or in stages. Accepting these two points will neutralize, at least in theory, this desire, thus the refusal. And thus the lack of trust that we, Jews, develop about the Muslim-Arab world's real intention... People of true good will must therefore impress upon the Muslim-Arab leadership to finally accept that which has been accepted by the rest of the international community: that Israel has the historic, ethical and legal right to be, to exist as the nation-state of the Jewish people, and that a peace deal must be viewed as a peace deal, one that ends the conflict.

Abbas wants the deal done before he sits down to talk, BiBi says sit down and we'll get the deal done. To complicate things even more the Palestinians really do not have a unified government, and Hamas is on record saying it would not honor any deal Fatah/Abbas made. In addition Hamas has said it does not have honor any past deals made by Arafat, hence Hamas does NOT recognize Israel's "right to exist" even though past Palestinian governments already did that. So here we are again.

Does the entire international community recognise the borders prior to June 6, 1967 to be those for opening negotiations? Yes or no? Does the international community recognise previous agreements between the two parties as a legitimate starting poitn? Yes or no? Does the internatinal community believe that the continuation of settlement building is an impediment to peace and that Israel has already committed on several occasions that the 21 illegal outposts would long be gone by this time? Yes or no? And this shalom has the chutzpah to open his mouth and whine that Abbas is the problem? The problem is that Israel wants to have its cake and eat it too.

(1) Stop sending Israeli immigrants to Palestinian territory before there is agreement on the border and migration rights. (2) Set the borders of Palestine at an area geographically equivalent to the '67 borders. (3) Continue where the past round of negotiations left off Which of those demands is unreasonable? Israel needs to grow up and stop hoping people will merely fold to their demands.

Longer they delay direct talks, the less they will gain from negotiations.

... to miss an opportunity. Famous quote still rings true

with Washington's help, Israel has held on to the occupied territories for so long, they actually believe it's theirs to keep, and only they have the right to say what the Palestinians can and cannot have; to this day, Washington continues to behave in a manner that's supports this arrogant attitude with no change in sight.

As cat and mouse is a little bit unbalanced, U.N should decide what the borders are ( in fact they decided already ), U.N should decide Jerusalem status ( in fact they decided already ), right of return ( in fact they decided already ). I wonder what else could be negotiate.

So far Israel has put forth nothing on permanent borders, land for settlements nor withdrawal of the IDF. Abbas has put the Palestinian objectives and plans on the table. It appears the Israelis are the obstructionists. Is it Israel that takes comfort in a fortress mentality and a sense of superiority over Arabs?

It would be amusing if it was not so tragic and stupid ! But, it is perfectly compatible with the concept of non-acceptance of Israel in any form. One thing about the Arabs: they're consistent.

Mr. "Peace" calls the three conditions "impossible", the latter two of which were long meant to be implemented as per the UN. This can be considered no less than disgraceful, dishonest and conniving. It is also another one of those pass-the-buck type insults, mostly towards Palestinians' intelligence.

Sit in the same room and talk, what are you so terrified of, Abbas?

If giving back what has been stolen is impossible then it is clear as it has been for long that Netanhyahu government does not want any peace. It is impossible with population trends that it will not have to pay for that sometime as time does not work any more in the good direction.

It's counter-intuitive for many in the West to think that peace is to be avoided, but that is exactly what the leaders of the Palestinian people (not the people themselves) want. Peace brings responsibility and the end of UN relief money to the "oppressed". The Arafat model works well for Abbas

if not at the approximate end of the talks between PM Olmert and President Abbas at the end of 2008, then where do you suggest to indicate to the Palestinian leadership that you are serious to reach a peace agreement based on the UN Security Council Resolutions 242 and 338 ? We already know your personal position regarding Jerusalem, but what about the borders between Israel and the future state of Palestine?

It has taken him a while to grasp other aspects of the ME.

So long as a 9-year old Jewish child goes to school in Tel Aviv, the Palestinians will find this too a provocation, and refuse talks.

its not the pals who have set impossible conditions, but the israelis. the problem is both sides accepting each other and for israel.. its security. but for israel the settlements, jerusalem, and pal water are the goals.... just wont work. abbas would be foolish to waste his time with israel. sadly nothing will change until the us presses israel... and that will happen when the us starts hurting even more.

The Palestinians have never missed a chance to miss a chance to make peace

Why these are impossible demands. They are a starting point, not an end game.....

US needs to draw up borders, give the map to both and force the signing. Oh, and settlers, they can stay as citizens of new Palestinian state if they wish.

Abbas is absolutely right to reject direct talks. These 'impossible' request from the PA are nothing more than the basis of international law; no more settlement building in the occupied territories and the June 67 lines as borders of a future Palestinian state. It is time for Abbas to let Obama and Mitchell know that he won't hand over what is most important to his people on a whim.

unless it's about details of implementation.because the question is does israel move,or does it stay.it's not like abbas is going to give us a major slice of,say,jordan.if bibi wants to talk of wether to move at all,then perhaps abbas is not the right man.anyway,what's the sudden rush?

I dont think you realize the economic reprecussions of a blockade, but ther pretty bad. Like so bad that there doesnt exist a level of foreign aid you can give to make up the lost revenue from a blockade. And I know someones gonna try and debate this with no econ knowledge except what they learned on CNN, but I'll save that foolish individual the time, there is no credible economist in the world that would claim palestine is liking whats going on right now, i mean Gaza has a high infant mortality rate than the Congo.....seriously the Congo and Haiti too, it has a worst infant mortality rate than Haiti, suprisingly only in the last 3 years.....whats been up for the last 3 year? oh wait.

How is Abbas supposed to make peace when East Jerusalem and the West bank are eaten up by illegal Israeli settlements?

everything...why do you need negotiations then? Just one more example in a long list that clearly illustrates that the Palestinians don't want peace. They want Israel piece by piece.

I am a Jerusalem Zionist and, I don't often speak this honestly (at least not on Haaretz) but I'm really happy that Abbas makes our game. I mean, we don't even have to reject his proposals, he simply refuses that we discuss! Yet I feel sad for the Palestinians that get deceived by this man that does not represent them. They feel the Jews are responsible for their fate although only Abbas is.

how long will it take for the penny to drop ! ther are no negotiations that will work !!

I remember how Yasir Arafat was duped into coming to Camp David in 2000 on the basis of solemn promises by Bill Clinton that if the negotiations would fail he would not be blamed. Arafat was - just like Abbas now - unconvinced that the negotiations would produce any breakthrough. And he was right. Barak proposed to make Abu Dis, a suburb of East Jerusalem, the capital of Palestine. The big Israeli colonies were left untouched. In short what was offered were Bantustans just like in Apartheid South Afica. Arafat rightly refused to go along with this sham and neither Barak wanted to make a courageous commitment. But I remember it was Arafat, who in the end got blamed by Bill Clinton for the failure of Camp David This time with Nethanyahu it is even worse. Netanuyahi has nothing to offer, so he should not be given the opportunity to masquerade as a peace maker. If Netanyahu is serious, let him first extend the moratorium on colony building, then move in the army to take away first all of the illegally illegal 'outposts' and then tackle the bigger colonies. Indeed Israel's real intentions become clear not by what is said or professed but by what it is doing. The Palestinians won't buy Netanyahu's 'economic' peace, which is a fraud anyway. They will only be convinced by Israel creating facts on the ground of a kind which is radically different from the building of colonies.

PA and Abbas shows that they haven’t got any sovereign power to make any fatefully decision about themselves and their people. This cements the usually general suspicions that there are no such ethnic group of people known as Palestinians, but just Arabs of the Arab countries, who happened to be in the Land of Israel because of economical reasons. If this is not the case, then why the hell Abbas and PA can’t make any viable decision, but only nuisance ones? All they do, is to do what their fellow Arabs of the Arabian countries says? Do they really believe Amr Mussa will help them get a Palestinian state? Do they really think Obama will give them Judea and Samaria? The only one who will be able to meet this very fatefully decision is the people and the government of Israel and their prime minister. If you don’t come at the round table to meet the people of Israel, but instead you run to Amr Mussa and his fellow dictators and demagogue, like chicks, then we wish you a lot of good luck. In this case, Hamas is more open then PA and PLO, because they have declared themselves that they‘re fanatics.

That's always true.

Our answer to the dirty and vicious circle of all types of negotiations with the settler's government in Israel must occur tomorrow!!. How?! :All palestinian people in palestine and in the diaspora must demonstrate and raise their voices against further waisting of time in nonsense negotiations. We are tired, tired , tired ... and have no more any glimmer of hope in future !!. What does the world await from a hopless humanbeings??!!

finally, he si showing leadership, along with Faayad. Israel, wake up, there's another world out there!!

Like his predecessor, Abbas has no interest in peace with Israel, no interest in a PA state as his Arab puppeteers and threats from Iran via Gaza dictate. Abbas is an empty worthless figurehead with no power.

The Palestinians have never lost the opportunity to lose an opportunity to proceed forward. They continue to remain in their same misery rather than moving forward. They will forever continue to lose the opportunity of making a better life for themselves. Yasser Arafat did the same when he represented his people and Abbas is doing the same thing. Thus it remains that Hamas is the only winner in the deal. When will the Palestinians finally realise that the rest of the Arab world doesn’t give a damn about them and only provide lip service to make themselves sound caring. Wake up Palestinians and understand that your leaders do not have your best interest at heart. Look at your Israeli Arab brothers, they stayed and joined the system and are 100% free to pray and even become members of Parliament. Please think about this before you lose another opportunity. For once, start direct talks and more forward. Don’t let what is happening in Gaza happen to you.

If in the end there will not be a 2 state agreement, will all the professional politicians that wasted years pushing it resign and admit they were all wrong. Build Israel!

To expect the PA to sit down with this government of Israel is ridiculous. Why? Because the PA is prepared to discuss borders and that the guiding principle of that discussion is to be what the international community views as being the legitimate starting point: the borders as they existed before June 6, 1967. The PA has committed to a two state solution. So has Israel....verbally. But what are they doing? They are saying while we discus borders, we are going to take more land that you thought would be incorporated into the State of Palestine. And the PA is just supposed to sit back and nod to the moldovan pitbull, yessah, yessah! And to show the world that the moldovan pitbull has a generous heart, what is he will to do? Say to the PA:"and you can have our Arabs and their towns but we get: EAST JERUSLAEM, THE WEST BANK AND THE JORDAN VALLEY. TAKE IT OR LEAVE IT! And the pressure is on Abbas!!??

First he wanted a settlement freeze guarantee, now he wants a border gurantee. These are thing that need to be discussed asand negotiated. Problem is Abbas has no authority to make any deal He is a lame duck. So he limits his authority and goes to teh Arab league to vaslidate eberything. I guess palis will not getn tehir state any time in teh next decade or two. Too bad. Perhaps tehy willd eclare one in a year or so and then try to let ISrael deal with a fait accomplis. Doesnt work that way. Abbas either has to sit and talk or he has to go.

this will be blamed on israel? tell me haaretz and the huge amount of anti israel poster's on haaretz... when do you balme the palestinians? again haaretz is the most anti israel paper in the world. kol ha kavod haaretz!

when will that be, the 12th of never. they were stronger and still didn't do anything. the problem is that Abbas can't do anything w/o reconciling with Hamas, who hates him and Israel. an active Palis civil war will come first, at this moment its in the passive state.

Especially if you trust more all comic characters all around then your closest neighbor.

So let's see, what do we have here? The Palestinians reject offers of statehood 3 or 4 times, and now Abbas doesn't even want to talk about it. Does anyone still doubt that they have absolutely no interest in a state? I can't wait to see here the usual excuses of why abbas is justified in his rejectionist behavior.

Israel likes to talk for ever, meanwhile, it continues to steal Palestinian land and build illegal settlements.

THE PALESTINIANS ARE AFRAID OF PEACE BECAUSE IF CONFLICT IS OVER, THEN THEY WILL NOT BE TREATED AS THE WORLD'S BRATTY KID SISTER ANYMORE.

Abbas really does not want peace, because once peace is established then all aid from Islamic countries will stop, they don't want to work.

I get he himself is not sure. What a pity!

...crystal ball--and it fell and broke--but despite that, I would not be surprised to see some of the "conventional wisdoms" get broken as well. (But like I said, my crystal ball broke.)

government has promised

What about Israel's reliance on Western Aid? Without it, it wouldn't exist.

Risky move by Abbas; The US wants direct talks - by reffusing he's hoping the US will be put more pressure on Israel, and he's betting the US won't just wash their hands of the whole thing

Abbas is complaining that that things have not progressed sufficiently for his liking. Well, genius, that's why there are talks. You talk and negotiate and you work things out and then things progress sufficiently. It seems like every time a positive step forward, like these pre-negotiations, one side or the other throws certain conditions in the way to stifle progress. If they can't have a meeting of the minds they should be pressured to submit the entire dispute to Binding Arbitration. Each side picks an arbitrator; the two arbitrators pick a third arbitrator; the two sides argue their cases in front of the three arbitrators; the arbitrators render a decision; majority decision rules. Compensation should be paid by the United Nations to those who lost property when the UN created Israel. No right of return (except if the land vacated by it's owner is still vacant, then that owner or heirs can return). End of dispute. We're all sick of this. Go lead a normal life.

... but he has to do it in a more measured way. From being tough with Netanyahu, the US turned around and started a charm offensive towards Israel aimed, I suppose, at Jewish American contributors in the coming Congressional elections. Abbas does not have such a strong influential ally as AIPAC and has to stand up for himself. This is a correct policy in principle. Example: Abbas initially demanded freezing ALL construction in West Bank and Jerusalem as condition for talks with Netanyahu, who does not appear ready for peace. That was a reasonable demand, supported by International law. The US prevailed upon Abbas to start indirect talks, which he agreed to. He cannot now turn around and agree to direct talks without some real progress in the indirect talks, or else he will lose more credit with his own Palestinian public. This Obama must understand, Congressional elections not withstanding. The question is, how much "real progress" is demanded. Abbas tends to exaggerate here, but at this point in time there appears to be no progress at all because Netanyahu only offered "gestures", no beef. Let Abbas state some reasonable measure for starting direct talks. Example: Evacuating illegal settlements. This is politically hard, but Netanyahu will have no excuse.

do it now

While continuing to reject Israel, the world is beating a path to their door, plying them with cash, plaudits, political support, sympathy, etc. Why would these people ever make peace and lose all that? Unfortunately the world has become an enabler of Palestinian dysfunction. Not that they need any help in that regard.