Israel denies presenting Egypt with map of Palestinian state
London-based newspaper quoted an Israeli source on Tuesday as saying that the Egyptian leader had rejected PM's outline for a final settlement.
By Barak Ravid and Jack Khoury Tags: Israel news Middle East peace Benjamin NetanyahuPrime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu's bureau on Tuesday firmly denied reports that the Israeli leader had presented Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak with a map delineating the borders of a future Palestinian state during their meeting in Cairo earlier this week.
The London-based A-Sharq al-Awsat quoted an Israeli source as saying that the Egyptian president rejected the proposal as out of hand, and it did not meet the Arab League's demands for a state based on 1967 borders with negligible amendments.
The Egyptian president reportedly advised Netanyahu to redraft the proposal to be consistent with the vision laid out by the Arab world. According to the same report, Mubarak grilled Netanyahu over the course of their three-hour meeting on Sunday to see how serious the Israeli leader was about resuming direct peace talks with the Palestinian Authority.
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PM Benjamin Netanyahu and Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak in Cairo on July 18, 2010 |
| Photo by: Reuters |
Although the report cited Mubarak has having praised Netanyahu for his latest efforts to move toward peace, Egyptian Foreign Minister Ahmed Aboul Gheit said that Cairo's official position on the matter was that more work needs to be done to bridge the gap between Israel and the Palestinians before they can move to direct talks.
Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas and Netanyahu met separately with Mubarak in Cairo on Sunday. Abbas has refused to negotiate directly with Netanyahu unless Israel agrees to recognize its 1967 borders as a basis for drawing a future Palestinian state, and accepts the deployment of an international force to guard its borders. Netanyahu has refused to be pinned down on a framework for negotiations.
At the conclusion of the Mubarak-Netanyhau meeting, the prime minister lauded the Egyptian leader for his involvement in the peace process.
"President Mubarak represents the aspiration to expand the circle of peace, stability and security to all the region's peoples. I view him as a central partner in achieving these important goals."
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Since PALESTINE IS A REGION albeit the after 1967 ARabs coined themselves as Palestinians, the REGION was divided and subdivided into IRAQ, JORDAN, WHO STOLE WEST BANK, and to add to your confusion JORDAN WAS DESIGNATED AS LAND FOR THE PALESTINIANS NOT ISRAEL israel received a SLIVER OF THE PALESTINE REGION and still the arabs of Jordanian origin calling themselves the nouveaux Palestinians are not satisfied and the figure head JOrdanian king who elected himself to the fake throne = an extention of the Saudi Clan should open doors to his people and shut up about it already
The day of reckoning is coming: Rothshild, so called pro-israel bunch: mallicious cancer: KOSHER NOSTRA
Or should I say abandon the goal to destroy Israel, which is inseparable from Arab goals to create mythical Palestine.
The Palestinians have lost 80% of their former lands, and now Israel wants to take away even more of what little is left. Israel's idea of what a Palestinian State should look like is one carved up by settlements, walls, checkpoints, soldiers, no control over borders, no air rights. That is a complete joke and a recipe for failed state. The Palestinians would be better off with a one-state solution at that point.
@James Palestinians have never had their own land. The former Mandate of Palestine must not be mistaken for today’s illation of the state of Palestine.
All is needed is to change the fabricated East Bank nation Jordan name back to the "Palestine mandate" and you will have your Palestinian state.
Israel took over most of it and occupied the rest, look back at older maps or the history of palestine. http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Palestine
I'm sure they can get some it back from Jordan
Jordan sites on 80% of pre-Mandate Palestine. One could say that the Jewish people were deprived of 90% of what was promised as rightfully theirs.
Palestinians aren't interested in a Swiss Cheese state carved up by Israeli settlements, walls, and soldiers. That is a ghetto-ized state, not a recipe for a viable state. No thanks, Netanyahu!
Or Bibi and his partners in crime are doing their all to push ahead with a bi-national state solution. The Palestinians already know that they will not receive anything resembling a viable state of their own. Our "leaders" have already seen to that. The new game plan is to push quietly toward a single state. No more violence (unless provoked by us), just demands for civil rights. Sooner or later we will become Israstan! and the fathers of this new state will be people like Bibi, Barak, Peres, Sharon,etc. GOOD WORK!!!
NEVER - this I can promise you - and what is even sadder they never get it - hence, it's a vicious cycle, Israel will once again fail and once again, as their history illustrates, they will have once again no one to blame but themselves. Even the destruction of the temple was a direct result of their zealots take on the mighty romans, to their disgrace. Avarice, is a disgusting attribute in any person or people - Shakespeare had it right.
If people (both Israelies and Americans) educated themselves on what is going on (injustices) they would have a different outlook, I have asked many people here (usa) if they even know what is going on between israel and palestine, and no one can answer because they dont know, The media does not cover stories across the world they keep us blind, telling us about celebrities and weather, keeping the real headlines out of public interest. The more people educate themselves about the atrocities going on in the world (Darfur,Palestine,ect) the more people will begin to react in a much more different way. They will have a different outlook on things.
American Diplomat: Got racism much? Your remarks smack of it.
If Obama didn't have some critical pressure upon Bibi, then Bibi would not be wasting his time over borders and trying to push Abbas into direct peace talks. Obamas two predecessors, Clinton and Bush did not involve themselves with Israels peace process until the final year of their eight years in office. This keeps expectations on Israel low, since the American administrations won't be around long enough to take a second look. When Obama was elected, he came charging into the peace process his first year in office. This was alarming to Israel, since they would obviously have to take some action. Obama was not on his way out the door and he would certainly have a second look. We don't know the nature of the fire Obama lit under Bibis butt, but we can from Bibis actions that he is feeling the heat.
Natalie your love for Israel is soo obvious I have news for you ISRAEL IS A SOVEREIGN NATION AND OBAMA THOUGH PRESIDENT OF USA DOESNT YET RUN ISRAEL HE MAY SUGGEST BUT HE HAS NO POTENT CLOUT GET IT??
Hello 19 (usisken) I always said that there are people with values, people with attitudes and people with values accompanied with attitudes and those people are very few, they are the real people and you are one of them Usisken!!!. None of the people mentioned in the article is real , they simply ashamed of the human race, we are paying because of these creatures stuepidity!! Well we can watch and we can make a difference in the right time
haaretz... and anti israel rag prints this unfounded crap. anything that makes israel look bad haaretz prints.
that way israel hating conspiracy lovers can have something to do.
no map.if there was a map it would be tailored to be rejected.and i would believe israel were we fifty years on.
israel wants to give us 2006 borders instead leaving with only gaza
In 1937, 1947 -> Arabs rejected their own state, and there is no border of 1967. According to UN res 242 this border shall be a matter of negation. And Israel is entitled to a secure border. What’s left the so-called Palestinian can self-governing (PA). The so-called Palestinians are only entitled to self-governing.
bibi buying time for new U.S elections
... rubbish! Israel make offer after offer for over 60 years. The arabic answer is always: NO. See & read: The Khartoum Resolution of September 1, 1967
of course keeping all land thats worth anything and a majority of it too
it is there that you will find his map. That is already clear and needs no discussion. netanyahu's actions have clearly delineated the borders but they do not allow for any kind of a viable contiguous palestinian state.
the map is a wish list, here is Palestine everyone, minus all the parts we want - then Bibi says how can we discuss peace efforts when the Pals have all of these preconditions? ha ha this man is a lier, he would lie to his own mother for a dollar.
Is Abbas and his Sunni controlled Arab League capable of recognising the Jewish state of Israel and it,s legitimate existence within the Arab world ,methinks not ,therein lies the root of the problem?
Is Israel and its diaspora cohorts capable of recognizing the Palestinians right to exist in historic Palestine and Jerusalem, and recognizing the plight of the Palestinians caused by the creation of the state of Israel - and recognizing the human rights of an individual who may not be jewish within Israel proper? I think not - there lies the root of the problem. Israel's inability to come to terms with the fact that this land where they want to create a Jewish homeland is also home to millions of others- the indigenous Palestinians have ALWAYS been a problem to the dreams of the zionists - historic Palestine HAS NEVER been homogenous, and never will be - much like the isms of the past century discovered, that you cannot mold history, life and reality into your own myopic view what you believe SHOULD be rather than embrace WHAT IS.
"The Jordan Valley and the territories that dominate it shall be under Israeli sovereignty." - Likud Election Platform 2009 Only recently did Netanyahu repeat this fantasy. Right here the Palestinians lose some 15-20% of the West Bank, while the Clinton parameters considered a 5-6% loss, of which about half should be returned in the form of Israeli territory. To this Barak agreed in Taba (2001) while Olmert seems to have agreed to a 1:1 territorial exchage less than 2 years ago. Netanyahu will be laughed out of the peace process with such a map. The laugh will be even louder because this thinking is so outdated. The Jordan Valley was viewed by Israel as protection against Iraqi tanks, but Saddam is dead, Iraq has no tanks, and the IAF can put an end to an Iraqi invasion force. The US freed Israel of the Saddam worry at immense cost, but Likud refuses to consider this as real.
Iraq can be rearmed in future upon american evacuation and Iran would cross Iraq to attack Israel.
The Jordan Valley was thought in the old days to be able to delay a tank attack on Jerusalem by 1 (one) day. That was valuable when you consider that the army prefers to have a 2-day advance alert in order to call in the reserves. The farther you look, to China, for example, the less useful this becomes. In any case, the era of big tank battles seems to be over due to development of anti-tank weapons. Israel learned it the hard way, in Yom Kippur and recently Lebanon. Israeli generals know it. Perhaps Iraqis don't, but they will soon find out. In any case, when you use military reasoning, I suggest to you to look at the overall ability to defend against a threat or, if you know little about the subject, just find a military expert's opinion to quote. Political parties don't necessarily use military logic. CLUE: Barak, the General, agreed in Camp David to give away this defense against a non-threat.
The ideal Map for the Hamas and Friends is bigger than you think, it extends to Londistan, Brusselistan, Paristan, Amsterstan and even to Washingstan! Funded By Dubai you have no idea how many communities are being set up with the sole purpose of a long term objective to take over by population what it cannot take by terror. Unfortunately Gaza will be forsaken in the end by their own "friends" because they are being used. Israel will be like a desert island with a couple of palm trees and a falafel stall. No one will want that tiny bit of land any more because they will have all the rest of the world.
The fact remains that there map encompasses all of Israel, just like many Israeli maps encompass all of Palestine.
"its 1967 borders" This means what israel controlled 1. januar 1968
All in a nutshell, and there you go,
It would in no way be binding upon him. It would, however, signal to the Palestinians how serious he really is to seal a deal. Which is, of course, why he won't show a map.
Yes it did occur but Egypt won,t accept this map as it means taking over the Gaza Islamofascist madhouse of Hamas and finally accepting some responsibilty for what happens in it,s own backyard ,but without the American/European largesse?
Just a sec here. But two weeks ago this newspaper reported Abbas’s proposed creation of a Palestinian state within 1967 borders, with a possible land swap of 2.3 percent of West Bank. Has the real go between in these talks just emerged? Leads one to wonder.
Whom to believe? Both are not credible but if I have to say who of the two is more believable, I would say Dictator Mubarak because he has not much to loose ... Netanyahu has lost face
The Egyptian president would've looked at the Swiss Cheese map and laughed. He might've pointed to Ariel and said, 'what is that doing there, this Israeli town looks a bit funny slap bang in the middle of Palestine'. Presenting Bibi's 'vision' is visual form would've been a recipe to spoil the meeting. Bibi would've known that and done no such thing.
If you can't see where this road map of retreat and defeat is going then you are blind. Palestinians don't want a peace settlement with Israel ; they want a piece of Israel , then another and another until they have it all. They will continue to make unreasonable demands until Israel is forced to deal with them in the harshest terms. Palestinians don't seem to be capable of governing themselves or even living peacefully with each other.
... what they want is a piece of Palestine - not all of it but enough to have a state in. BTW who is currently taking whose land piece by piece?
are in favor of peace and for the 1967 borders. Now here is chance to see that peace can happen, if those here in minority go with majority and take the bold step.
"Palestinians don't want a peace settlement with Israel ; they want a piece of Israel " Nope ! It is Israel that took a piece of Palestine and wants it all. That's part of the project. Now palestinians have 1000% right to defend what is theirs, are perfectly capable of governing themselves and do not need lessons from you. Mind your own business, end occupation and stay in your part of the land.
Likud won based in part on it's opposition to a return to '48 armistice lines. So unless you can win an election on a minority you must be wrong.
Palestinian State is a new state that has never existed before, how come they are demanding for Jerusalem? Palestinians should forget about Jerusalem and accept Palestinian State with Ramallah as the capital. May be Palestinians do not want a state, and the world is just wasting time calling for such state. Jerusalem is united and can never be divided. Habbay......!
that is good
is it the Olmert 's one ? ;-)
Agreed ! if people expect to see any of the "genereous" peace proposals from Barak or Olmert somewhere, people may wait for a quite a while........... Manipulation and propaganda at their best !!
Great way to go Bibi! Let's chat with a dying President about a plan for the future of the Palestinian state that you really don't want and will do anything to avoid coming into existence. It looks good doesn't it? The photos of you smiling and poor old Mubarak shrivelling. But it makes you feel good too - expressing sympathy whilst doing what you do best - obfuscating. If there was Nobel prize for it you'd certainly be in the running. But what's missing is a similar photo of you holding direct face-to-face talks with Mahmoud Abbas and within the murk of your artful obfuscation there is a clear message: Abbas! Never! And then you pretend that you really want direct talks and you really want a settlement etc etc. And the only person fooled by this is you. So the only way forward is either you grab the last chance to go down in the history books as the man who made peace with the Palestinians or as the Israeli Prime Minister who failed in his second chance too. Come on Bibi, the whole world's watching....and everyone's yawning.
The reason there are no direct talks now are because Abbas won't agree to them unless Netanyahu meets his demands. Netanyahu considers the demands unreasonable so there is an impasse.
...this map if netanhyau thik it's a serious proposal why don't show it and let the world to judge? If the map will stay secret, we should assume it's just a staged provocation
Israel is miserably weak. All Israel has to offer is what it calls war.
(Such as perhaps the Palestinians, if that is not too much to ask.) The world has waited for so long to find out what Netanyahu actually wants.
Some portions of the country under this particular map would only be 10-11 miles wide, and there are serious concerns with the ability to protect the largest cities from attack from such a short range. I wish this weren't the case, but I don't know that it's even logistically feasible to return to those borders completely without accepting a real (and not overblown or imagined for once) risk. I just don't think it's reasonable to expect them to take that gamble.
Even your staunchest ally rejected your vision of peace... this only tells how unserious the Zionist entity is about peace
Mubarak is just pointing out to Netanyahu that the Palestinian concession of the right of Israeli conquest ends at the pre-67 lines. The PA isn't going to recognize the 67 conquest. When Israeli signed on to Geneva IV, it accepted the end of the Right of Conquest. There is no Israeli exception in the treaty.
geneva IV applies ONLY to soveriegn territory, which the West Bank was NEVER- it was neither an independent entity (since there was and is no such thing as Palestine) and it was illegally occupied by Jordan which only relinquished its claim in 1988. That means the territory is officially and legally considered to be under dispute. It is in this way ,similar to the Kashmir issue, which was never properly divided- the "border" is just a cease fire line, much like the 1967 Green line. Please stop your deliberate disinformation!
"geneva IV applies ONLY to soveriegn territory, " The International Court of Justice mulled over that very point, and opined that it is complete and utter nonsense. The UN agrees with that opinion, as does the ICRC, as does every nation on Planet Earth that doesn't include the word "Israel" somewhere in their title. And when the **only** country making that argument is also the **only** country that benefits from it then you'd have to say that the argument is not based on "merit", but upon "self-interest".
Which is not, and seems that it won't be ....despite all the hysteria. The West Bank is indeed a DISPUTED territory. This is a political Fact nor a legal one. Palestinians and Israelites in past, present and future negotiations will be debating and DISPUTING about one thing: the fate of the west bank and Gaza. If the weste bank was an indisputable territory there would not be need for negotiations. However the question is how much of the west bank will be part of the Palestinian state and how much of it will be annexed by Israel. That is a matter of debate and negotiations between the parts. Israel has a right to claim property over certain parts of the West Bank. Palestinians have the right to decline that claim....That implies one REAL conclusion .......DISPUTED TERRITORY. Who cares what the C Council says about it.
Unless the world and US put more pressure on Israel, they will pass the time with these kind of useless proposals. Netanyahu playing Tom and Jerry concept now. This makes the western opposition against Iranian less effective. I'm not telling about US.
Jordan should be pressured to divide the west bank between Israel and itself and become more democratic so as to give the so called "palestinians" (who are a majority there) more say in their government. As for Gaza, it should go back to egypt. Finally, the let Syria annex ALL of Lebanon in return ceding the Golan to Israel- that is a lasting, just peace in the middle east!
One of the best solutions voiced, but will not be accepted in any way due to Islam not wanting ANY Jews in their Jewish promised land. The Islamic world will put much sufferring on their people to keep the Jews from their homeland.
Egypt illegally annex Gaza, against both Egypt's and PA's will. Jordon conspire with Israel to split the West Bank and each of them annex half, against both Jordon and PA's will. Syria illegally annex Labanon against Lebanon's will, then since Israel has been so good to them, cede the Golan to Israel. Why in the world would Palestine, Egypt, Syria, Jordon and, Lebanon ever want to do tsuch crazy, illegal and immoral things? Just to thank Israel for being such a good neighbor?
1947 borders was a proposal from UN. UN res. 181 was only a recommendation
perhaps it really was only a recomendation, but israel's declaration of independance specifically cites this as its legitimation both for establishment of the state AND its borders. In fact, the ONLY legal borders isreal has are those, as stated in its declaration of independence
All land Israel gained in the war of independence is recognized as Israeli land. That’s why the talks about the “borders” of 1967. As I recall from reading Israel declared their state on the former Mandate of Palestine.
Are the Palestinians fighting over getting a homeland or the 2% less? How come 98% is not good enough? Its inconceivable!!
in exchange for an equal amount of Israeli land. And they have also offered the Western Wall and the Jewish Quarter. It is Israel that has not accepted this.
You do realize that Israel is fighting over the same two percent, right? How come Israel isn't satisfied with what it captured in 1967? It's inconceivable!!
Jordan is the Palestinian state.
Who is Israel making peace with Egypt or the Palestinians
Why is Israel not willing to agree on this? Israel existence depends on it! In 1948 land was stolen and in 1967 agreements were made based on the theft of land. So although stolen land, at least there is with the Arab world a basis for agreement. Why this Israeli arrogance again?
were stolen from the Germans.
Stolen by the Turks. And Northern Cyprus.
In 1947/8 the Arabs rejected their own state as they did in 1937 and until this day. So there was nothing to steal from Arabs, they didn’t want the land.
silesia was lost in the war and all the others too.dont tell lies.I was there.
Is not the bussiness of Egypt to acept or reject Israel proposal....I think is a big mistake to submit to Egypt Israel proposal for a peace accor with palestinian...... They have convinced Arafat to refused Barak proposal at Camp David. They are not serious with control of the flow of arm to Gaza. Egypt has not any interest in a peace accord between Israel and Palestinian.... With peace their influence in Middle east will pratically be zero
Netanhyahu going to Egypt with a map and so worried when Mubarak postpone meeting. He would be wise to hear the advice because with Mubarak's successor to come within short delay it may be far more difficult.
Maybe Netanyahu can't move Egypt as easily as he claims he can move America in the video of his condolence visit to an Israeli family during his earlier time as PM. This man is a politican and as such he is devious and malicious but he is also evil.
Google netanyahu 2001
"Only when the letter came … did I sign the Hebron Agreement. Why does this matter? Because at that moment I actually stopped the Oslo accord.” - Bibi Netanyahu, on tape, speaking at a home in Ofra, 2001.
It is clear that without the 1967 borders, the peace deal will not take place. It is still time to make peace thought it is very unpalatable for the both sides. If not very grim future for the both side is waiting in the wing.
Israel will never ever go back to pre 1967 borders arabs lost and now they need to face their losses nobody returns BACKwards The world must clearly understand that Jerusalem will not return to the pre-1967 borders. This is a clear and important strategic policy in the heart of consensus in Israel. Before negotiations surrounding Jerusalem are even conceived, the level of trust between Israel and the Palestinians must soar to new heights. Such trust will occur only after the issues of Gaza, the West Bank, the settlement blocs and the Jordan Valley are resolved. The absolute sole route toward a lasting agreement is direct bilateral negotiations.
The british has occupied whole India and at the end they have left whole India. what the hell are u taiking about.?/ It is an occupation and u have to leave sooner or later. suck it
on E. Jeruselam and on land swaps to accomodate many of the larger illegal settlements. If Israel plans to hold out until the Pals give them all of E. Jeruselam and large chunks of W. Bank, then the P.A. has only two choices: 1. Disband and declare a one-state solution and demand full Israeli citizenship. 2. Declare Palestinean Statehood within all of W Bank, E. Jeruselam and Gaza and seek international recognition and support.
Palestinians can demand anything including a orange sky but to get it?? it is not strategically feasible to give the Palestinians everything they desire on a silver platter for them to constantly dream of a jew and Christian free Middle East since majority of the area already is Muslim the dream is to have it all no way jose
Netanyahu has known for a long time the '67 boarders are to be the basis of the Palestinian state, this just goes to show he has no intention of allowing a Palestinian state.
The border between Israel and Jordan was never set when in West bank. Only a line between armies
what a Chutzpa!!! Who attacked several times? Who lost the war? THE SAME: ARABS!!!! and now they have demands?!?! it is so funny it makes me CRY!
Just ignore these demands. Then you'll be overflowing with arabs in a few years, and you'll be able to choose : 1) Apartheid state upon which most of the world will enforce sanctions crippling the economy 2) Bi-national state where jews become the minority Have fun with these choices
Besides they are fed garbage and all kinds of nonsense as "truth" by the New Historians who found a way to make their pockets fat at Israel's expense by writing absurdities and passing it as Historical Truth
Never gonna happen Michael
As nuclear bombs and fundamentalists inch closer and the US falls behind China, who is going to support Israel in 30 years time.
Typical ultra leftist narrow vision. Gives only 2 choices: Apartheid state which is the leftist code name for saying Jewish state or bi-national state where Jews are in the minority. /Well I have news for you Michael, there are a lot of other variables to achieving true peace, such as returning Palestinian Arab populations where they rightfully belong, in Palestinian Jordan or in a confederacy which includes Egypt, or where Israeli Arabs will gain Palestinian citizenship, etc. Ans a bi-national state does not at all mean that Jews will lose their majority. So stop your scare tactics, things are not so bad and time is on the side of Israel, it needs to do nothing but wait until the Arab oil runs out, that is unless leftists like you manage to convince rational Israelis to commit 'hari-kiri".
Israel attacked palestinian villages before any war was declared. Keep crying.
as a deduction, I would say that most readers are not only lefties, but extreme lefties who I am not sure have any form of Zionism in them!
Tell all contributors here to go read their own Bible
Thats what our enemies of the free world want you to do RUN AND SETTLE FOR CRUMBS NOW THATS A POSITION OF WEAKNESS I hope you never run for office Nico you will give away your possessions at the first bark
include sources of your information
Which God was that Geraldine? The God of the Jews. the Christian God or the Muslum God? What about the Hindu Gods? what do they say? Lets not forget the Buddha? Lets check with him as well.