Is Peres trying to convince Palestinians to refuse direct talks?
Source tells Israel Radio that the president sent former minister Ramon to meet Erekat this month as his emissary, with that message in tow.
By Haaretz ServiceFormer justice minister Haim Ramon of Kadima met earlier this month with Palestinian chief negotiator Saeb Erekat in an attempt to convince him to refuse direct Middle East peace talks, Israel Radio on Thursday quoted a source as saying.
The two met at the American Colony Hotel in Jerusalem on July 8 . The source wholeaked news of their talks to Israel Radio said he happened to be in the hotel for a separate meeting, and was close enough to hear every detail of the conversation.
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President Shimon Peres, May 2010. |
| Photo by: Itzik Ben-Malki |
According to the source, Ramon told Erekat that he had been sent as an emissary of President Shimon Peres. Erekat was surprised by that piece of information, said the source, adding that Ramon confirmed he was indeed a third party in the matter.
Ramon reportedly proceeded to tell Erekat that the Palestinians must not enter direct negotiations with Israel, as Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu would inevitably refuse any demands posed to him.
The source said that Ramon offered Erekat "proof" during their conversation that direct talks would be a waste of time, and that the Palestinians would never receive anything in return from Israel.
Peres' bureau confirmed that the president had met with Ramon for lunch a day earlier, on July 7, and that the former minister had informed him about the planned meeting with Erekat.
But the president denied that he had sent Ramon to persuade Erekat to refuse direct negotiations, adding that he had in fact implored the minister to do just the opposite. The president's bureau added that Peres did not need a mediator to meet with the Palestinian negotiator on his behalf.
Ramon confirmed that he had indeed met Erekat, but downplayed the significance of their conversation. "I have been meeting occasionally with Palestinian leaders for many years," he said, adding: "This is nothing new."
The former minister also said that the views he presented during those meetings were exactly the same as those he shares with Israeli media, denying any clandestine nature of the July 8 talks.
Erekat responded to the report by saying he did not discuss private meetings with the media.
Peres is scheduled to discuss the efforts to revive direct Israeli-Palestinian peace negotiations with Egyptian President Hosni Mubarak on Sunday, a spokeswoman from Peres' office in Jerusalem confirmed.
The two will meet privately before attending a lunch hosted by Mubarak. The parley is scheduled one day before Peres' 87th birthday.
Israel Radio quoted senior Israeli officials as saying that Mubarak understands the coming months are critical for the future of the peace process. Indeed, the four months allocated to U.S.-mediated indirect "proximity" talks will end in September, as will a partial 10-month moratorium on Israeli construction in the West Bank.
Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas, in Cairo on Thursday to brief
an Arab League committee dealing with the peace process, has said he sees no justification for starting direct talks without any progress made in the indirect ones mediated by U.S. envoy George Mitchell.
Abbas is, however, under heavy American and European pressure. Washington and Europe want direct negotiations to start before the partial settlement freeze expires on September 26.
Netanyahu told visiting Spanish Foreign Minister Miguel Moratinos he would not be able to extend the settlement moratorium because that would bring down his coalition.
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This hearsay is either too puzzling or absurd.
Sure the Israeli wish that the palestinians keep rejecting direct talk so it would appear as the palestinians are the one who dont want peace !
Then it wouldn't just "appear as the Palestinians are the ones who don;t want peace"...as you put it..., would it? It would be a fact, right? If they keep rejecting direct talks how can anybody blame Israel?
Story stranger than fiction ! You mean to say that these people have stooped so low ?................... If true,you wonder why the other side are so intransigent ................................................................ Like the classical Jews in what used to be the Shtetels . People who can never see the success of others:small,envious, & harmful types.............. But having said all the above , a feeling of doubt came over me, because this sounds so.............. preposterous,
Or, at least.remove their Knesset immunity if they have any just as we do with Arab Knesset members plotting with enemy states.
Aliens amongst us?
The double speak emanating from the various Arab quarters is beyond belief. Their agenda is to build up world condemnation of Israel. This is easy since many countries have three reasons to go along with this facade. 1. Anti-Semitism 2. Fear of Arab terrorism directed against their own countries and 3. Jealousy of Israels accomplishments in so many fields.
Don't hate me cause I am beutiful. House demolisions, ethnic cleansing, unequal water rights, outright theft of land, these are not things to condemn Israel for. Why not accept the Arab plan of 2002. 67 borders for full recognition.
This is the same tired old crap we've been hearing for far too long. Israel has given the international community numerous reasons for its condemnation (siege of Gaza, Lebanon 2006, tens of thousands of home demolitions, illegal settlements, stolen passports used for targeted assassination, the hideous wall, etc. etc. etc., as far back as Deir Yassin. Anti-semitism is not the reason for the condemnation, but the immoral behavior of Israel most definitely is. Your comments offer nothing new to the discussion of peace in Palestine, but serve rather to solidify the current stalemate. Please pull your head out of the sand, look around, and look for alternatives. The world will applaud you. We sincerely want peace in the Middle East, which will benefit Israelis as much as it will Palestinians.
for not urgently seeking peace and for,in fact and action, rather than insights and ruminations,he did no different than any p.m. you care to mention.no one has yet tackled the P. word.
you can relax-on the basic issue bibi peres and you have much in common.
Netanyahu told visiting Spanish Foreign Minister Miguel Moratinos he would not be able to extend the settlement moratorium because that would bring down his coalition.
Ramon offered Erekat "proof" during their conversation that direct talks would be a waste of time, and that the Palestinians would never receive anything in return from Israel.
That the present Netanyahu government is not capable of reaching a peace agreement is certainly correct. Netanyahu can't even freeze settlement, a very basic step. He surely will not be able to have a real peace deal. Peres, Mr. Experience, undoubtedly believes this as well. But did he send Ramon to convey the message to the Palestinians? Peres is known in Israel as the "untiring schemer/underminer" (in Rabin's description of him), so he is capable of it. But sending such a message to Abbas would be an impeachable offense, so it is not clear to me that he was foolish enough to do it. The one really not careful was Ramon himself, discussing in a restaurant heavy matters of state within earshot of absolute strangers. Perhaps this will be the "kiss of death" to Ramon's future political aspirations.
he just wants to try and get it across as if it were from another source...
Everyone is deluded to think that direct peace talks will ever bring any results. The hope is that they will not even begin and Israel will point their finger at the PA. And if by some miracle they do commence, a war will begin shortly afterwards so that people forget that they are going on. This has been the case for the last couple of decades people, WAKE UP!
Netanyahu has made too many statements to settler groups reaffirming his support for them. He has committed to maintaining an IDF presence in a new Palestine. Netanyahu is not to be trusted. Thank you Peres for that observation.
I can't imagine what purpose Peres would have for such sabotage. The mysterious leaker just happened to be sitting where he could hear the entire conversation seems unlikely. Abbas needs to run for these direct talks if he is serious about peace, period. Everybody knows you need to sit down and talk, if you truly want a deal. The rest is just diversion, or maybe, Abbas is being threatened by his own people. We do know much of the assistance given to the Palestinians is based on them NOT making peace with Israel.
honest People don not lie as you do.
If I'm a liar? Tell me, what did I say that you consider to be lying. Or do you just call people names that you disagree with. All I said was the story doesn't make sense. It doesn't. That is my opinion, you may disagree, that's your right. It doesn't make me a liar.
The validity, or lack there of, of the report can only be judged by disclosure of the source. this sounds strangely like the case of shirley sherrod, the usdepartment of agriculture official who was booted, then reinstated, after a fabricated report that she had made racist statements. this "case" sounds very much like the work of one of those mindless likud backbenchers, who will do anything to get an often phony headline.
No israel, No Palestine. One State Solution is the best for all. One Man, One Vote, Equality for all inhabitants. Equal Pay for Equal Work, Equal Water Rights. No Apartheid, No Segregation...A Very True Secular Democrac Let us call it: “State of Holy Land”.
That peace and direct peace is the goal. Pity the Palestinians refuse, and that will be their downfall.
that is zionists real wish.
Netanyahu, although I hate him, isn't going to sell his people's interest although for political reasons. but i'am sure that Abbas(I also hate him equally with Bibi) would not only sell the interests of his people, he is ready to sell the entire Palestinian people for his own personal benifits. thus, the Palestinian people must get rid of Abbas and retinues imemdiately and before before its late.
If you want peace talk, direct talks and result from them then you shouldn't talk with Netanyahu. He is crippled as long as he has Lieberman and his party in the government. In that aspect Peres is right, if that its't thru then the idea is right
They both want East Jerusalem as their capital...so let them share it. This is possible with the help of UN/US mediation. Lets not forget that East Jerusalem is a World Heritage Site, settlements do not belong there! But Palestine should include the same amount and quality of land as those demarked by the 1967 borders, with the areas around the separation wall mapped on Israeli territory. Also, the Arab leaders of this future state should decide on building permits for any WB settlement activity...this would give Israel an incentive to allow their Arabs equal access to building permits. America should facilitate Israels reluctance of a palestinian military by fostering a powerful alliance with a future palestinian state, an alliance just as powerful as their current Israeli one.
The annexation of East Jerusalem was declared ILLEGAL by UNSC Resolution 252 (1968)of 21 May 1968 UNSC Resolution 267 (1969) of 3 July 1969 UNSC Resolution 271 (1969) of 15 September 1969, UNSC Resolution 298 (1971) of 25 September 1971, UNSC Resolution 465 (1980) of 1 March 1980, UNSC Resolution 476 (1980) of 30 June 1980
in thirst of blood.
if no pal state soon we will be a majority in israel
Actually, it will become a Turkish state.
Of the hotel, I heard something elese. give 1000 $ and I will tell you exactly what ramon was saying. My memory is very good.
Erekat does not need Ramon to tell him that Netanyahu has o intention of reaching a final peace agreement with the Palestinians. The Palestinians need to declare a state of their own and define their own borders and let the chips fall where they may. The international community will recognize and it will become a defacto just like the settlements.
He wants the glory of reaching a final peace for himself and not Bibi
He tried in every way to answer the questions without denying the claim. Livni is conducting an investigation. The Kadima is waiting in the wing and we all know they are the US little darling.
This is a non starter for the President he represents the state as a functionary an d should be above part politics and certainly not sonspire with a party(Fatah) of terrorists.
So Ramon is delivering this kind of message in a public place -- hotel lobby or restaurant? Talking loud enough so that everyone sitting around can hear (or only the anonymous source with super hearing? On the other hand, Ramon has never been the sharpest shovel in the shed so maybe he didn't have the sense to say lets take a walk in the park and talk. Either, this sounds like bull , but then it's coming from Haaretz, so maybe they made up the whole thing. The latter is the most likely.
And then Israelis say that Palestinians were rejecting the peace opportunities. What kind of a sick game are your politicians playing again?
apparently even Ha'aretz talkbacks are about outdated issues...
"Your builders hurry; Your destroyers and devastators Will depart from you." -Isaiah 49:17 First, the Torah doesn't say this. Next, the Bible doesn't say it either. What you misquote is actually the verse from Isaiah I quoted above. It is used, tongue in cheeck, to say "your destroyers and devastators will come out of you" in the sense that they will be born by you. But the (one word) "yetzeu", "come out", means within context, "depart", as in the translation above. That is why the builders of the devastated place have to hurry and prepare for re-building. In any case, I object to calling Peres or Ramon "traitors". They are patriots who believe that Netanyahu is merely wasting everybody's time, so they give such advice to FURTHER the peace prospects.
Israel doesn't want peace but trying to imitate that Arabs don't want peace.
He's probably aware of how much damage Netanyah's government has done, and continues to do, to Israel's international standing.
He is ever ready to do the bidding of the PM. He often paves Bibi's way. Peres believes that that is part of his mission as a pro-active president.
"He is ever ready to do the bidding of the PM. He often paves Bibi's way. Peres believes that that is part of his mission as a pro-active president." That certainly used to be true. But Peres, while not quite the bird of peace he sometimes likes to portray himself as, is no fool either. He can see the way the world shuffles in embarrassment when Lieberman threatens to descend on them and I bet the world's leaders are probably quite frank with Peres in private. They all know that Bibi's extremist and faction-ridden government is completely incapable of making peace. And Peres has been around long enough to know that too. He may not have realised it to begin with, because maybe he fell for Bibi's used car salesman smooth-talking, but he must realise it now. Unless he's totally senile. Somebody's got to have the courage to save Israel by putting the dagger into Bibi's strange parody of a government. Maybe it will be Peres.
Michael sometimes I feel you get carried away with how extreme and fanatical Bibi actually is. Bibi is not Leiberman and is far more an astute and intelligent diplomat than you take him for. I have met Netanyahu on several occasions and he is apart from being the obvious which is articulate and charming is also very experienced and savvy. Being Prime Minister of Israel is not an easy job and he has lots of volatile internal politics to deal with. Try to look at some positives from him. He has opened up more crossings in the West Bank than all previous administrations. He has frozen settlement construction which may not be enough for many but is more than any other previous government before. There has been no conflict since he took power no major Lebanon, Gaza or West Bank offensives. In fact all has been pretty quite an stable with regards to violent acts on both sides. Perhaps Michael Bibi is in fact just the man who might be able to bring peace. Give him a chance these things take time but at least he is trying to get to Direct talks not avoid them.
I actually don't think Bibi is that much of an extremist. I think he hates the idea of a Pal state but realises it's inevitable. BUT and it's a crucial but, in his desperate quest to be, and to stay PM, he has surrounded himself with much more extreme types. I regard his government as more extremist than him. Usually, I'm ALWAYS one to support talks, but I just can't see the point here. Bibi has said his government will fall if he prolongs the temporary and partial freeze on settlement building. If a minor concession like that will destroy his government, how could he possibly, even if he wanted to, get his government to deliver the major concessions that are obviously necessary for peace?
I agree with you Michael that he is surrounded by more extreme types as that is the nature of his coalition. I for one would have been delighted with a LIvni Kadima and Netanyahu Likud Government which would potentially have had more power to push an agreement through. However Leiberman has indicated that he will agree to a peace deal even if it is painful for him and so have Shas. There is and always will be a danger of either or both breaking up the government and scuppering Netanyahu at the first or last obstacle. But I would still rather go to Direct Talks to see because I believe that Bibi is more capable of keeping it all together than it might appear. I hope that we see direct talks which as the Arab League have just said need a timeframe with set goals. We need a solution and better for it to come quickly during this period of calm than before the next outbreak of violence from either side.
So, I don´t agree with you.
Why must Israel have those representing her who have nothing but her harm in mind? ( Obama and the Arab League?) The proposed talks can't be forced and Israel is entitled to all of the Holy Land. It was a heritage from G-d. Those who try and dissolve what is G-ds gift will be thwarted and shamed. BUILD THE LAND, ALL OF IT, IF YOU WONT, YOUR ENEMIES WILL.
and what should happen to the millions of Palestinians who have been living there fo centuries ? what are they entitled to ? and by the way , God is in charge of ALL human beings ! Shalom / Salam
by "all holy land" you mean entire Palestine. No wonder Israel is incapable of making peace as long as such blinded persons libe there. After all you are not ashamed to argue that the peace process is blocked by Palestinians? What should they negotiate for if you want all the land only for yourself? The truth is that nobody will give "all the land" as a gift you. And that means, even your grand-grand children have to live with wars because you are a fanatic.
Your God maybe. No one else's. The less we hear about this heritage schmeritage business the better.
They seem to reject every opportunity for peace all by themselves. As far as timing is concerned, they wont get a better deal after Obama is out of office.
Pray tell what deal do you speak of?
what other deal could there possibly be?
Why print this rubbish?
cause it is interesting!!!!
It was written by "Haaretz service", which tells all you need to know.....
It's interesting when the source is named and the story is corroborated. Otherwise it's meaningless.
Too much talk and no action, except in the case of the far right and their settler movement which in the end will usher in some extreme right wing clash against those of the silent majority. The settlement freeze is so contentious, that indeed the current government could fall. Mr.Peres, has always been a clever analyst, yet, not many Israelis trust him, mainly due to his outreaching policy. There are many Arab leaders, that trust Mr.Peres. The current stalemate known as the "chicken and egg" theory could well become permanent. Good day from snowy Swiss Alps.
Because Haaretz is the symbol of free journalism.
not forgotten how he was treated by Erdogan in Dubai, while trying to present Israel in the best possible light... Peres is no freier... he'll be more cautious of superlatives in future re Israel's intentions...