IDF discharges soldier involved in Hamas raid which left Palestinian civilian dead

This "civilian" was in his house. The suspects (whose pre-trial release Israel has agreed to) were in another house.

a lot of us would be complaining. The US has committed criminal acts in both countries but apologists for Israel should not use that as an excuse to dismiss criminal acts by Israel.

What about the 248 police cadets killed at the start of the "Cast vote" operation? The 9 children killed in the "get-the-quadriplegic-Sheikh" operation? And all the women and children killed in Qana? ("We can't find the soldiers, so we'll kill their wives and children")

They were not cadets, as Hammas has admitted lately, just Hammas "fighters"

the farce investigation of Jawaher Abu-Rahma is enough .

Must be some bizarro rules of engagement that allow for shooting somebody sleeping suspiciously. Wonder what the suspicious movement was, snoring? Turning over in his sleep? Starting when the door banged?

Rules of engagement...Made by this rabbi, who declared the it is ok for the IDF soldier to kill even a child if this happens to be between the terrorist and the soldier. What a moral soldier should do? To protect the innocent child or himself?

in drone attacks ,usually at night ,while the failies are sleeping ?

If you have evidence or even a link to a non-Al Qaida website, provide it. There have been mistakes and courts martial as a result of those mistakes. We even try pilots in friendly fire circumstances. Time for you to put up.

And I don't need you ,I've got a CNN interview with an american military expert saying that "despite of civilian casualties in drone attacks ,sending ground troops on these operations would cause even greater casualties."

But those soldiers always got a punishment. None discharged. That's the difference between a demcratic, law state and a clown ruled, apartheid, banana republic.

The drones are a new way of killing without asking questions. Those who order those killings should go straight to the Hague. But to justify Israeli murders because some other country commits murder does not justify what Israel has done. Both countries to the Hague and soon!

A crime worthy of death---right---light unto nations.

Hundreds ofpolice officers forced to shoot ..

Abs. Sweden - Totally different circumstances and nothing to do with the article being discussed. But just to enlighten you, hundreds of police officers didn't shoot - the suspect shot himself...

although the circumstances of this situation as suspicious and unclear, there is no evidence that the soldier had intent to kill a civilian, therefore not terrorism. I would like an independent investigation to know what happened.

When the US wants to kill just one specific person in Afghanistan via a drone or guided missile they would take out the whole block even if it caused collaterl damage and I didn't see you antisemites complaining Why don't you get off you moral horse.

amongst the population and is indifferent to civilian death and injury. The aim is to use fear to achieve political /social goals. Whether or not an act is 'terrorism' seems pretty subjective. There is no 'official' definition of terrorism by the International Community - not surprisingly since most of the countries drafting that definition would have armed forces doing those exact things.

A sad fact of life,civilians get hurt when dangerous IDF soldiers with blood on their hands chose to hide amongst them in restaurants and public places in Israel... logical, right?

These IDF soldiers and their commander need to be judged in front of a criminal Court. Otherwise it means democracy is fading in Israel.

The deafening silence speaks for itself

.. who have been shot in their beds while sleeping when there is no war. And don't forget to mention what happened to their assailants... should you find such a murdered person.

The US tries soldiers under this kind of circumstance. Maybe somebody in the IDF should teach recruits the Geneva IV rules. The kid got off easy.

,hence theUS fury at WikiLeaks providing video of the incidentents and details of many more cover ups. And Karzai forced to attack Americans for indiscriminate artillery and bombing strikes at civilians proves you lying again.

When I watched the video I was sickened. Our country has long committed war crimes. Maybe that is why the US and Israel are so closely entwined. Birds of a feather as they say.

And "well known"? Hardly. "Murderers who killed innocent Jewish men and women"? Really? When were they convicted of this?

Yes there were many of them. They raided into the house and killed a sleeping man in his bed. They are called IDF.

The IDF soldiers are not brave enough to meet a sleeping man whitout killing? It is a death penalty whitout any kind of trial -even if there was asuspicion that this man has harboured some terrorrorists? A SUSPICION !!!

I see its "blame the victim" day In Israel.

There is so much in Israel to blame

An army of occupation raiding cities and villages at night...again, did you say WAR???

Who you trying to kid?

and if, by some chance, they are instigated we can be sure that the fault will be found with the sleeping victim and not the killer.

Like Brttiney Spears said, harboring murderers in your home is not so innocent.

in matters of life and death. You must be out of your minds

They were in the wrong house. OK? The hoops you will jump through to blame the victim are impressive - and disdgusting.

there were no "Terorrists" in the house..the only terorrist around were the IDF..shooting a man because he was sleeping..very brave...from the most moral army in the world !!

If you want to start going back then maybe we should go back to the idea that if the State of Israel wasn't there then there would not have been any terrorists, therefore no need to enter the house and not killing. Or perhaps we could go all the way back and suggest that if the Jews had not rebelled in 70Ad then they might of had complete hold on the area by now. Hoe far back do you want to go?

kill 100 sleeping palestinians if u can just blame it on the PA?

The guy was not a terrorists. He was not even resisting. Killed in the bed. What are you talking about?

any country in the world releases suspects from custody if they didn't find anything to put a case against them, in fact they spent much longer time in custody than the law permits.

This isn't Hawaii 5 O on TV. You are talking about terrorists that were involved in killing 4 Israelis in cold blood There are no Miranda rights during a war.. get real

These men had spent months in prison and were released because there was no evidence against them. They are innocent men.

or would that not be acceptable?? but then again...WHO CARES ..RIGHT !! it's just an ARAB..in the eyes of the most moral army in the world !!

Your callous comment just shows the hatred people like you have for Israel. The incident was wrong, it was a mistake and should never have happened - I agree. But have you - even in your diatribe - stopped to think WHY the soldiers were there in the first place? Also, your high and mighty attitude should be tempered with your questioning if those that indiscriminately launch rockets into Israel`s civilian population are also brought to bear if they kill people who have nothing to do with a conflict with the military?

True, it is all a PA plot to make Israel look bad

Was to summarily execute 5 people. That of course got cancelled after this snafu, and they had to capture them instead. And the rest of what you're saying seems to be that IDF killings such as this justify what Hamas is doing...or was it what their doing justifies this? No matter...it's saying the same thing either way...isn't it?

Qawasme was hiding other terrorists behind his bed. those other terrorists used Qawasme as human shield and tried to fire at the IDF.

... so why do we shoot old men sleeping in their beds?

And then the terrorists vanished into thin air and waved a magic wand so that the soldiers forgot they'd been there ...

He would have been shot because the soldiers felt he was dreaming about attcking them, and they felt that their lives were therefore in danger.

The criminal is not usually allowed to set his own punishment ---- not in a democracy. Get that?

But as a firm backer of the Israel and the IDF, you've apparently missed the fact that the IDF isn't looking for solutions or punishments - as a matter of fact, it's standard is protect its soldiers from accountability. Please note that this is an administrative action, NOT the result of a trial. Chances are that he was not discharged for shooting the man, but for 'other' IDF considerations - had acted "unprofessionally" is NOT necessarily clarified here. Read it again.

This should not be allowed but would cause political problems for the Gov. or seen as putting soldiers at higher risk.

...snoring? maybe?

I think Israel demands too much from their soldiers. The Arabs shooting at civilians get money for this.

So why don't you send a hit squad for the discharged soldier. When the Pal RELEASED the 5 terrorists that killed 4 people thats ok?

This raid was hastily organized and with intelligence so insufficient that the men tasked with executing it didn't even know who's home they were raiding or who might live there. i saw the pictures, The guy was setting up when the bullets ripped through him. I saw no evidence whether his hands were upon the blanket or beneath it. Nor would it matter much if you were a scared kid who had been sent into a house to arrest someone and discovered people whom you had not been briefed to see, in a moment which might be your last. What bothers me about this incident is not that some unfortunate old man died a horrible death which was clearly unjustified. What bothers me is that the power that be in the IDF are trying to cut off investigation into their mistakes by punishing a the least person they might.

Who ordered a hasty action without proper intelligence? The parole of the men pending trial had been cleared with Israeli authorities. The homes they would be staying in were known to Israeli authorities. Israel agreed to the parole pending trial. Someone decided that the men had to be taken into Israeli custody immediately and ordered a clearly ill informed and executed mission. I doubt if the kid's immediate superiors ordered such an action. Armies don't work that way. Lt. Shavetail does not make decisions of state involving coordinated activities in different locations on his whim. Lt. Shavetail fulfills the orders of superiors who make the decision to launch coordinated strikes. The minimum level of responsibility would rest with the person who had the capability to order multiple coordinated actions across the West Bank.

How do you know what his 'suspicious' move was? Many years ago while I was a policeman in the Uninted States, I an d another officer went to investigate a complaint of domestic violence. When we got there the suspect has taken refuge in a bedroom. The other officer went to one door and I went to the other. When I peeked inside the door, Isaw the suspect sitting on the bed with one hand in his lap and the other hand beside him on the sheets. The other officer started into the room and the suspect moved his hand on the sheets. I saw a long slim object profiled under the sheet and pointed my pistol at the suspect while ordering him to raise his hands. once we hand the suspect handcuffed we discovered that the 'suspicious' movement of the sheet was caused by a loaded 12 guage shotgun. A moment or two later and the suspect would have shot my partner. I could have shot the suspect and gotten away with it because of the shotgun being under the sheet. Thank God I saw that 'suspicious' movement and intervened on behalf of my partner. Always watch their hands for 'suspicious' movements.

when the suspect really didn't have anything under the sheets. Can you also write what would have happened to you if you had shoot an unarmed man in his bed.

No, I never had to shoot a suspect in my entire police career. The point of my answer to GS was to illustrate that the 'suspicious' movement represents and unknown threat to the officer. A moment's hesitation could cost the officer his life. If you have never had to make an armed entry into a suspects hideout, you will undoubtedly never understand the danger nor will you ever understand what it takes to overcome the fear that you feel in such circumstances. No Monday morning quarterbacking allowed on this one.

Pratt, I understand, being a former cop myself. However, despite multiple times where I could have "legally" been justified in shooting someone because of aforementioned "suspicious moves" I did not because of (1) training, (2) accountability, and (3) having to live with myself if I took another person's life without any other option. Unfortunately the IDF doesn't appear to be constained by any of those three.

You do see the difference?

the 65 years old man was asleep in his bed, the only activity he was engaged in prior to being riddled with bullets... WAS SLEEPING!!!

Those five had just been released by the PA security forces i.e. as far as the PALESTINIANS were concerned none of them were wanted for anything. Which meant that as far as the PALESTINIANS were concerned each and every one of them was free to find whatever "shelter" he desired, including in the house of this poor unfortunate. "How innocent could this Palestinian be?" He. Was. Totally. Innocent.

There is no explanation for killing an unarmed, not-resisting, sleeping man. Even too shallow for IDF.

I still find it hard to accept the evidence of recent years. I grew up with the IDF being a paragon of competence instead of the Keystone Kops. In the past every IDF fiasco was discussed and dissected by a nation which viewed the IDF as it's personal protector and intimate interest. How has a nation become so jaded to such incompetence at the higher levels that it simply accepts the commanders dumping upon the common soldier to concealtheir own incompetence? The threat of immediate destruction at the hands of invading armies might have passed, but Israel is a small nation in a bad neighborhood. A competent and well led IDF is absolutely essential to the nation. Yet in the last 5 years we have seen supplies delayed for hungry soldiers in Lebanon because an Logistics Corps Aluf wanted a photo-op. We have seen men risked in ill planed operations of questionable value. The nation which sees the IDF as it's own has come to be subservient to a command structure which views the IDF soldier as it's personal career opportunity. This change in relationship between the professional officers of the IDF and Israel's public and soldiers is a real threat to the nation. Does the IDF command exist to serve the nation and is entrusted with the lives of Israel's soldiers; or as things have evolved does it exist to ensure the career prospects - including their post-retirement jobs in politics and defense businesses - of it's professional officers? If the answer is that the IDF was just following orders, then has it served the nation or some politician?

Good luck at getting more information.

The soldiers were given limit intel on who was in the house and were the person to arrest was, so problems were far more likely to happen. The PA and IDF need to work closer together but political that is unlikely any time soon.

The soldier thinks this is the terrorist operative and when he is entering the room there is suspicious movement. Heck the U.S hits the taliban with drones who have never attacked the u.s while israel gets bashed for arresting someone who helped plan a suicide bombing in dimona in 2008 that killed israelis. The double standards in this world are outrageous.

You write that "israel gets bashed for arresting someone". Are you really so stupid that you think that's what Israel is getting bashed for, or are you claiming that anything done in the course of such an arrest is legitimate?

So why did you ignore the first half of his statement being "Heck the U.S hits the taliban with drones who have never attacked the u.s while..."

It is an experience which all but Haredi and draft dodgers have experienced, endured, and grown with. Tossing someone out of the IDF is in a way condemning him as unfit to be a member of society. Does any citizen deserved to be condemned as unfit because his superiors were incompetent?