Abbas urges UN: Recognize Palestinian state, pave way for legal action against Israel
In a New York Times op-ed, Palestinian President says a UN move to authorize an independent Palestinian state come September would rectify what he calls the 'unfulfilled' 1947 UN partition plan.
By Haaretz Service Tags: Israel news Middle East peace Mahmoud AbbasUnited Nations member states should support the move to declare Palestinian independence in September of this year, Palestinian President Mahmoud Abbas wrote in a New York Times op-ed on Tuesday, adding that such a move would also allow the Palestinians to pursue their claims against Israel.
By recognizing a Palestinian state, Abbas wrote, "the United Nations would pave the way for the internationalization of the conflict as a legal matter, not only a political one."
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Mahmoud Abbas addressing the PLO’s central council on March 16, 2011. |
| Photo by: AP |
"It would also pave the way for us to pursue claims against Israel at the United Nations, human rights treaty bodies and the International Court of Justice," he added, saying that the Palestinians were going to the UN "to secure the right to live free in the remaining 22 percent of our historic homeland because we have been negotiating with the State of Israel for 20 years without coming any closer to realizing a state of our own."
"We cannot wait indefinitely while Israel continues to send more settlers to the occupied West Bank and denies Palestinians access to most of our land and holy places, particularly in Jerusalem," he wrote in the New York times, adding that "neither political pressure nor promises of rewards by the United States have stopped Israel’s settlement program."
In his article, the Palestinian president, and future head of the joint Fatah-Hamas cabinet, also described his view that the Palestinians had been devoid of national independence as a result of a historical mistake, what he characterizes as a neglected leftover of the 1947 partition agreement.
"It is important to note," Abbas wrote of the Palestinian move for statehood in the UNGA this coming September, "that the last time the question of Palestinian statehood took center stage at the General Assembly, the question posed to the international community was whether our homeland should be partitioned into two states."
"In November 1947, the General Assembly made its recommendation and answered in the affirmative. Shortly thereafter, Zionist forces expelled Palestinian Arabs to ensure a decisive Jewish majority in the future state of Israel, and Arab armies intervened. War and further expulsions ensued," Abbas added.
Linking those events with violent Nakba Day protests earlier this week, the Palestinian president indicated that "the descendants of these expelled Palestinians who were shot and wounded by Israeli forces on Sunday as they tried to symbolically exercise their right to return to their families’ homes."
"Minutes after the State of Israel was established on May 14, 1948, the United States granted it recognition," Abbas wrote in the New York Times, adding: "Our Palestinian state, however, remains a promise unfulfilled."
Returning to the issue of stalled peace talks, the Palestinian president wrote that negotiations remained "our first option, but due to their failure we are now compelled to turn to the international community to assist us in preserving the opportunity for a peaceful and just end to the conflict."
"Palestinian national unity is a key step in this regard. Contrary to what Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu of Israel asserts, and can be expected to repeat this week during his visit to Washington, the choice is not between Palestinian unity or peace with Israel; it is between a two-state solution or settlement-colonies," he added.
Concluding his article, the Palestinian president called on "all friendly, peace-loving nations to join us in realizing our national aspirations by recognizing the State of Palestine on the 1967 border and by supporting its admission to the United Nations."
"Only if the international community keeps the promise it made to us six decades ago, and ensures that a just resolution for Palestinian refugees is put into effect, can there be a future of hope and dignity for our people," he wrote.
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"In November 1947, the General Assembly made its recommendation and answered in the affirmative. Shortly thereafter, Zionist forces expelled Palestinian Arabs to ensure a decisive Jewish majority in the future state of Israel, and Arab armies intervened. War and further expulsions ensued," Abbas added." Really? So, it wasn't that the newly-formed state of Israel was attacked by its neighbors? It wasn't that the Arab propaganda machine urged the Arabs within Israel to leave, so that the armies could finish off the Jews more quickly? It was ISrael that began to cleanse its Arab population and the Arab countries merely intervened to save these Arabs--whom Abbas and the rest of the world now calls Palestinians? Amazing distortions coming from Mr. Abbas, a man whose Ph.D. dissertation denies the Holocaust....Yet, the wold is listening to this man. Yet, the truth will soon be distorted and repackaged.
The real story here is how Abbas plays the usual Palestinian narrative game, painting his people as hapless children carried around on the tide of history. No where in his article does he mention the fact that the Arabs refused a state in '48, or that the West Bank and Gaza were under Arab control for two decades before '67. And, of course, then there's the whopper, the imagined "right of return." Through the 20th century, populations have suffered the horror of displacement -- Indian, Pakistani, Polish, German, Jewish -- the list goes on and on. None went home. So how can something be a "human right" if it applies in only one conflict and then only to one side?
The US Congress has one priority and one priority only. The Jewish state. And anyone who fails to see that is a bloody fool.
and the priority of the palestinians is to establish a Palestine State and tell the Congress to go to hell.
Arafat:..."You understand that we plan to eliminate the State of Israel and establish a purely Palestinian State....I have no use for Jews; they are and remain Jews.
you can invent whatever you want...amazing the amount of stupidity one can read on this forum.
These actions by Abbas are acts of war and Israel has every right to respond accordingly.
Hahahahahahhahahha !!!!! and you're serious. That's even worse than i thought.
That too is an act of war.
They are fighting against the God of Israel, the God of Abraham, Isaac, and Jacob, the Creator of heaven and earth and all the things that are therein, the Holy One of Israel, and they can not win.
Arafat to women: BY YOUR WOMBS WE WILL DEFEAT ISRAEL
Remember what I have been saying in comments to most posts like this: The United States views Israel as a key ally in the region, and they have veto power within the UN. For those seeking UN recognition of Palestine, and of right of return, the problem is really one of Quantity over Quality. Even if there is a majority of nations that support it, there would be ones against it with veto power, such to prevent any sort of military or political action, or economic sanctions. Should it come to this, the United States would veto political or military action against Israel. This is part of why I am an advocate of direct negotiations. The UN is useless in this conflict.
The man is a liar, plain and simple, abput 1947.
abbas is still a holocaust denier and a denier of history and truth is that he has not changed. He is not and never has been a "moderate" seeking peace. He is a declared enemy of Jews and Israel
netanyahu is still a humanitarian crisis-denier and a denier of history and truth is that he has not changed. He is not and never has been a moderate seeking peace. He is a declared enemy to arabs and the whole world.
Nasrallah:There is no solution to the conflict except disappearance of Israel.
US wants to be an innocent bystander as UN recognizes Palestine as a country. US wants to continually give the appearance of a friend of Israel especially when US elections are approaching and Jewish votes and money are very important.
Unfortunately, Or Fortunately (depending who you are), the US also has the power to veto any UN political or military action against the State Of Israel. Catch-22, huh?
Legal action against a Palestinian State will also be possible then.
for refusing Palestinian state
I realize the falsity of that statement. How dare you equate Israel to Nazi Germany. Only Abbas can do that (in his book that you have obviously read).
and then you will now what is evil. Listen to those Palestinians who refuse the existence of the Jewish nation in Israel/Palestine.
Yup, it sure is. Way worse than Nazi Germany, Stalinist Russia, Maoist China, Genghis Khan and Attila the Hun combined. They certainly didn't do anything as bad as ... gasp ... opposing their adversaries' P.R. motivated political stunts. Yes, Israel truly must be the most evil country in history.
So far the official position of nobody who matters in the conflict. You know very well that NATO and the UN will not bomb Jerusalem, or Tel Aviv, or Haifa, to enforce anything, (they would not treat Israel as they treat Libya) because if the issue even came up, the United States would VETO the action. They view Israel as a Key Ally in the region. This is common knowledge and I am surprised people make useless comments such as yours, which change nothing and identify nothing. The destination of Palestinian Statehood must be reached through negotiations with Israel, because it is Israel with whom they would have to deal with if the General Assembly voted them as a state.
abbas is still a holocaust denier and a denier of history and truth is that he has not changed. He is not and never has been a "moderate" seeking peace. He is a declared enemy of Jews and Israel
Yet another war of words re-fighting 1947-1948. Who cares. Declaring Palestine within 1967 boundaries negates PAL claims within Israel proper. The Pals lose their stateless status and the Gaza corridor is off the table. Hasn't anyone wondered why the Pals haven't declared a state earlier?
http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Tzfat
You cite wikipedia as a reason that Abbas has claim on Israel, but in the same wikipedia article, editors claim that Tzfat was (in 1948) attacked by arab forces and laid under siege as an attempt to drive the Jews out prior to the declaration of the state of israel.... WAY back in February. This statement disproves what Abbas claims in the above article. Selectively quoting from Wikipedia must be a new low.
GOD gave this land to Israel and it is there's by covenant.. If you want to go against the Lord be my guest, but remember He will do to you what you do to Israel... Go ahead tick Him off
God is probably a fair man/woman, and I am sure he would have no objection to the Jews sharing it with others.
Even the Koran refers to a state for the Jews ruled by their own king. So a 2-State solution should be fine.
Palestinians Moving Forward Wisely Give the Palestinians a fair state now. Kosovo, East Timore, Montenigro, South Sudanese have all become independent, and with far less international recognition, so why not Palestine?
Action must be taken by the UN with the support of the other Quartet members. The USA cannot continue to blindly allow free reign to Israel. There is too much at stake in terms of having a successful Arab populist movement spread through the neighboring arab nations. Israel's actions provide fodder for extremist groups, and the responsible nations need to prevent continued egregious Israeli actions insulting Arabs.
I am an American, and I do not agree one bit with 90% of what you say, and 100% of what you say is on repeat.......You state the same old tired things over and over. Please come with something new and refreshing.
If I hear any Israeli commentators say the term "Partners For Peace" one more time!!!!
"Partners For Peace". If all sides don't step up to the table with peaceful intentions, there will be no peace. That includes Hamas, Fatah, Likud, Labor, Yisrael Beiteinu, Shas, and even the Salafi Jihadists would have to make concessions.
I may not be an Israeli commentator, but that doesn't change my recognition of the necessity for Israel and the Palestinians to be "Partners For Peace". If all sides don't step up to the table with peaceful intentions, there will be no peace. That includes Hamas, Fatah, Likud, Labor, Yisrael Beiteinu, Shas, and even the Salafi Jihadists would have to make concessions.
You have to love his way of thinking, he gives a bleeding heart interview and one of his main justifications for the UN to give them a state is so they cant take Israel to court. The UN needs to understand that allowing Abbas to bypass talks and expecting them to give them all the things he wants will make the situation harder to solve once the parties are over. Just because the UN says so Israel won't just close all its settlements or pull troops from strategically important areas, Its not going to hand over Jerusalem, give them control of the aquifers or anything else. In an attempt to force the palestinians to sit and talk Israel may decide to refuse to provide the palestinians any kind of territorial corridor through Israel and not even the UN can force it to do that. Leaving then with the bulk of their state landlocked and unable to connect with the rest of it. I imagine Israel would refuse to recognize any currency the palestinians choose to introduce which means it has no exchange rate to the shekel which would create problems for the thousands of palestinians who work in Israel and get paid in Shekels. Overnight that makes their pay check worthless unless they first convert it twice so it can be spent back home. Whilst the UN can create a state for the arabs in theory they can't create one that will function at a practical level, only a state created with Israel's blessings can do that and bypassing negotiation to go straight to the UN will only anger Israel. If the UN gives them their theoretical state it leaves no room later for a future palestinian leadership to hold negotiations with Israel to make the theoretical state into a workable one because it would involve concessions on the palestinian part and to make any concessions would be viewed as treachery. the palestinians are not looking beyond the independence day party when they talk about going to the UN. The US and EU at least need to say with one voice now we not support at the UN or give political recognition to any state created through bypassing negotiation. The US should also threaten to cut off financial aid to palestinians if they try the unilateral approach. Start thinking with your head instead of your heart and you see that only a state created through negotiation can survive and Abbas hasn't wanted to do much talking over the last couple of years because he has wanted the UN approach because he knows negotation means compromises.... time to be cruel to the palestinians now to be kind to them later
By force of arms not negotations.
Saying the Arab armies were "forced" into war in '48 to stop Palestinians from being expelled is like saying the Luftwaffe was "forced" to defend its planes by bombing London during the blitz.
Who rejects the claims of the Palestinians, the declaration of a Palestinian state on Jewish soil and He will never allow Yerushalayim to fall into the hands of the arabs again, YHWH, the One True Living God of the nation of Yisra'El. Those who appose His people, their days are numbered for He will no longer be mocked! Abbas speaks with a forked tongue. He has no intentions of living peacefully. Palestine as a nation would bring them one step closer to their ultimate goal of eliminating Y'Isra'El. Something they will NEVER achieve. Shalom.
Killing people without trial is unacceptable for the IDF. Israel army should not act like a terrorist organization; you're just showing weakness even with all your weapons. Don't act like victims never again because you are the executioners now and your hands are covered of blood. The incapacity of your politicians to be fair with the Palestinian people will only bring you more hate from the whole world. You should be grateful with Mr Hussein Obama because he is your only friend right now. Israel is NOT the Jewish state, it's the Kahanist State. By the way, never forget that Hama was supported by Israel in the early beginning as a rival for Al Fatah.
The self-destruct ticks clock ticks away. Israelis want Arabs to have a "secular" democracy without a hint of religion but they're happy with their "Jewish - Talmudic" democracy with all the settlers and their American Bible thumping Christians who believe the Messiah is coming tomorrow and has given them that land and must protect it for God at all cost. God doesn't need your help!!! Israeli politician need to wake up and read the signs in the region coz it doesn't look pretty.
OTHER THAN DIE IS THERE ANYTHING JEWS CAN DO THAT IS ACCEPTABLE TO YOU
In its editorial published 01:05 17.05.11, Haaretz writes "Not all Palestinian demands are a threat to Israel" followed by an article that says " In a New York Times op-ed, Palestinian President says a UN move to authorize an independent Palestinian state come September would rectify what he calls the 'unfulfilled' 1947 UN partition plan." The "unfullfilled 1947 Partition Plan" turns the current map upside down and promises future conflict.
never has God left nor forsaken Israel. In the end, when it comes down to it, they have a covenant with God because of Abraham. He always comes through for them, time and time again.
sad to see people yet believe in fairy tales in the 21st.century.
The UN, having already proved how useless it is, would reach a new low.
Sad to say what you said.
Apparently your hatred for Israel blinds you to what is moral and correct.
in fact talks are going on to reverting back to NATO and using the UN as a humanitarian organization
The Connection between the Nazis and the Leaders of the Zionist Movement 1933 - 1945 is the title of Mahmoud Abbas' CandSc thesis, completed in 1982 at the Peoples' Friendship University of Russia, and defended at the Institute of Oriental Studies of the Soviet Academy of Sciences. In 1984 it was published as a book in Arabic titled "The Other Side: the Secret Relationship Between Nazism and Zionism". The dissertation and book discussed topics such as the Haavara Agreement, by which the Third Reich agreed with the Jewish Agency to facilitate Jewish emigration to Palestine. Some content of his thesis has been considered as Holocaust denial by critics, especially the parts disputing the accepted number of deaths in the Holocaust as well as the accusations that Zionist agitation was the cause of the Holocaust, a charge that he denies. In the doctoral thesis, Abbas describes the Nazi Holocaust as "the Zionist fantasy, the fantastic lie that six million Jews were killed."[14][15][16] The thesis also discussed topics such as the Haavara Agreement, by which the Third Reich agreed with the Jewish Agency to facilitate Jewish emigration from Germany to Palestine,[2]. In the book, he wrote: It seems that the interest of the Zionist movement, however, is to inflate this figure [of Holocaust deaths] so that their gains will be greater. This led them to emphasize this figure [six million] in order to gain the solidarity of international public opinion with Zionism. Many scholars have debated the figure of six million and reached stunning conclusions — fixing the number of Jewish victims at only a few hundred thousand.[6][7][17][18] Additionally, he claimed that the much smaller number of Jews which he admitted that the Nazis did massacre were actually the victims of a Zionist-Nazi plot. "The Zionist movement led a broad campaign of incitement against the Jews living under Nazi rule to arouse the government's hatred of them, to fuel vengeance against them and to expand the mass extermination."[4] In the book, he wrote: Following the war, word was spread that six million Jews were amongst the victims and that a war of extermination was aimed primarily at the Jews . . . The truth is that no one can either confirm or deny this figure. In other words, it is possible that the number of Jewish victims reached six million, but at the same time it is possible that the figure is much smaller, below one million.[19] Abbas misquoted historian Raul Hilberg to support his claim that fewer than one million Jews were killed, and quoted Robert Faurisson on the nonexistence of gas chambers. [20][21][19][22] A global survey of Holocaust denial, published by David S. Wyman Institute for Holocaust Studies in 2004, describes the book as "denying the Holocaust". [23] Rafael Medoff of the Wyman Institute denied the assertion by Abbas that "The historian and author, Raoul Hilberg, thinks that the figure does not exceed 890,000", and said this is "utterly false". He wrote that "Professor Hilberg, a distinguished historian and author of the classic study The Destruction of the European Jews, has never said or written any such thing."[6] [edit] Political controversy and Abbas' clarificationsAs Abbas was appointed prime minister in 2003, the Israel Defense Forces removed excerpts from the Abbas book from its website, including quotes questioning the use of gas chambers and talking of less than one million victims.[4] According to Knesset member Aryeh Eldad, speaking at the time of Abbas' appointment, the Simon Wiesenthal Center was asked to "conceal its information on Abu Mazen's Holocaust-denial writings" prior to the signing of the Oslo Accords in 1993, by the Israeli Foreign Ministry and the American State Department.[24]
The UN has so many times demonstrated how useless it is. If it votes to establish a radical Islamic branch of Iran on Israel's borders, it will demonstrate that it is useless and dangerous.
In other times he should have mentioned it, but now he is laying a trap.. Suppose Netanyahu or the Israeli ambassador writes a counter article pointed this out. Abbas will be back and say: But the Jewish Right (proto-Likud) ALSO rejected partition. So why should they have a state and we don't? Ben-Gurion was afraid the Right will ever take over because he considered them unrealistic fantasizers who will end up destroying the State. The Old Man had good powers of observation.
Can some one please inform the world why was it a necessary and sufficient reason to partition Palestine despite the objections of the native populace ? and who gave the UN that authority?
I'll be shocked if this gets published as nothing else I say seems to for some reason
A little history. Prior to World War I, there was no political or geographic entity called Palestine going back more than 1000 years. After WWI, the modern state of Israel, the West Bank, Gaza, and the territory of Jordan were placed under British control in the "Mandate." (Jordan was carved out by Britain to create a throne for a client). Post WWII, the British renounced their control over the Mandate, which reverted it to the UN. The UN then divided it between two communities, Jewish and Arab. One side accepted the partition, the other did not. But, hey, if we're rolling back partitions, why not deal with the powder keg of South East Asia by reabsorbing Pakistan into India?
Time is now to move to the two-state solution; let the UN General Assembly vote.
One Man, One Vote, Equality for all inhabitants. Equal Pay for Equal Work, Equal Water Rights. No Apartheid, No Segregation...A Very True Secular Democracy. Let us call it: “State of Holy Land”.
... Not just Israel but Hamas too ! As long as Hamas continues its stupid "resistance" it makes it easy for the Rightists to "respond" with settlements ! Never mind the settlers would do it anyway. We have here therefore illegality on both sides. And the new declaration by Abbas comes AT THE RIGHT MOMENT !!! BECAUSE ILLEGALITY DOESN'T WORK ANYMORE ! Illegality has become, internationally, ... illegal ! For Israel but ALSO, FOR THE ARABS AND MUSLIMS .... ALSO FOR TURKEY BY THE WAY as demonstrated by the UN latest position regarding the flotilla. So, If everybody will behave legally, then Israel would finally live among Arabs IN PEACE ! ... No need for the extremists in the Likud, Yisrael Beiteinu, Hamas, and the other Arab violent groups ..... Sounds good, doesn't it? But not Realistic ...
Admit it, your tastes have not changed one bit over the decades, only your tactics.
Had THEY not started four wars, we would not be having this discussion. They deserve nothing. They only bring misery wherever they go, and contribute nothing. Just ask Jordan. That's why nobody wants anything to do with them. They are a scourge.
Why should 56% of Palestine be given to one third of the population- most of whom were Jewish immigrants (many illegal). Jews made up only 11% of the population in 1921.. Also, indigenous Palestinians knew of Zionism's plans to eventually rid the land of them for Greater Israel..
Where Arafat attempted to rape Israel by force, Abbas simply attempts to rape Israel on paper. Either way, the attempted rapes are all the same. Abbas needs to explain who Muhammed Amin al Husseini was to the UN General Council, as a pre-requisite to any additional babbling he concocts in what the "Palestinian movement" is and deserves. This guy looks like an even bigger clown than his predecessor.
There is only legal action to be taken against the Arabs for trespassing on the Lands of Israel. Throw the bums out!
Countdown to statehood...Thanks to the beligerent Radical Israeli Government whose only aim is to steal the Palestinian Land....
The Connection between the Nazis and the Leaders of the Zionist Movement 1933 - 1945 is the title of Mahmoud Abbas' CandSc thesis, completed in 1982 at the Peoples' Friendship University of Russia, and defended at the Institute of Oriental Studies of the Soviet Academy of Sciences. In 1984 it was published as a book in Arabic titled "The Other Side: the Secret Relationship Between Nazism and Zionism". The dissertation and book discussed topics such as the Haavara Agreement, by which the Third Reich agreed with the Jewish Agency to facilitate Jewish emigration to Palestine. Some content of his thesis has been considered as Holocaust denial by critics, especially the parts disputing the accepted number of deaths in the Holocaust as well as the accusations that Zionist agitation was the cause of the Holocaust, a charge that he denies. In the doctoral thesis, Abbas describes the Nazi Holocaust as "the Zionist fantasy, the fantastic lie that six million Jews were killed."[14][15][16] The thesis also discussed topics such as the Haavara Agreement, by which the Third Reich agreed with the Jewish Agency to facilitate Jewish emigration from Germany to Palestine,[2]. In the book, he wrote: It seems that the interest of the Zionist movement, however, is to inflate this figure [of Holocaust deaths] so that their gains will be greater. This led them to emphasize this figure [six million] in order to gain the solidarity of international public opinion with Zionism. Many scholars have debated the figure of six million and reached stunning conclusions — fixing the number of Jewish victims at only a few hundred thousand.[6][7][17][18] Additionally, he claimed that the much smaller number of Jews which he admitted that the Nazis did massacre were actually the victims of a Zionist-Nazi plot. "The Zionist movement led a broad campaign of incitement against the Jews living under Nazi rule to arouse the government's hatred of them, to fuel vengeance against them and to expand the mass extermination."[4] In the book, he wrote: Following the war, word was spread that six million Jews were amongst the victims and that a war of extermination was aimed primarily at the Jews . . . The truth is that no one can either confirm or deny this figure. In other words, it is possible that the number of Jewish victims reached six million, but at the same time it is possible that the figure is much smaller, below one million.[19] Abbas misquoted historian Raul Hilberg to support his claim that fewer than one million Jews were killed, and quoted Robert Faurisson on the nonexistence of gas chambers. [20][21][19][22] A global survey of Holocaust denial, published by David S. Wyman Institute for Holocaust Studies in 2004, describes the book as "denying the Holocaust". [23] Rafael Medoff of the Wyman Institute denied the assertion by Abbas that "The historian and author, Raoul Hilberg, thinks that the figure does not exceed 890,000", and said this is "utterly false". He wrote that "Professor Hilberg, a distinguished historian and author of the classic study The Destruction of the European Jews, has never said or written any such thing."[6] [edit] Political controversy and Abbas' clarificationsAs Abbas was appointed prime minister in 2003, the Israel Defense Forces removed excerpts from the Abbas book from its website, including quotes questioning the use of gas chambers and talking of less than one million victims.[4] According to Knesset member Aryeh Eldad, speaking at the time of Abbas' appointment, the Simon Wiesenthal Center was asked to "conceal its information on Abu Mazen's Holocaust-denial writings" prior to the signing of the Oslo Accords in 1993, by the Israeli Foreign Ministry and the American State Department.[24]
The palestinians have waited for more that 60 years, they have been oppressed and suppressed yet they have remained defiant.. the world awaits eagerly for the creation of an indpendant soverign palestine..
Oh please !
Confrontation but not necessarily military is the way of the future, unfortunately.
the offer (it was never ratified either)... time and time again you rejected it. If you had accepted and did not invade to get the rest you would not be where you are today. Aggressors and liars should not be rewarded.
WHY did he not ask Jordan to set up his State in the period they controlled things, 1948-1967. History revision and Holocaust denial are his expertise. Instead of haveing Jordan set up their State, war was far more preferable, not once but four times. Now, liar, you get nothing.
What's your point ? Jordand has nothing to do woth this business anymore but you love to repeat that same old story over and over again. You insult Abbas ? fine. You seem to have no problem with that. How about finding a solution for the palestinians ? you do not have any. Actually you do not want to hear about the palestinians as, unlike many others, you deny their sole existence. Now what Gianni ? are you going to spill your arab hatre forever ? there 's NOTHING you can do about the future creation of an independant State of Palestine. Is that understood ? you insult us, you embarass yourself with your biases extremist ideas. WE DO NOT CARE. You're not part of the solution, you're the problem. Capito ?
Don't talk about frutration please ! if there's one people that's frustrated, it's the palestinian people. Israel occupies their land, does anything possible to prevent them from raising their independant State, supports and encourages settlers to build in the territories, has extreme right parties in the government, uses military force to apply facts on the ground, repression, arbitrary arrests and assassinations, does not apply UN resolutions, denies the palestinian their right to exist.....who's frustrated Yaakov ? please.....this is pathetic. Israelis think they can rule and control palestinians lives. What do you do in that case Yaakov ? you resist. Think about it.
Whenever the American army has gone to war, whether in Germany, Japan, Iraq, or Afghanistan, they go to great pains and expense to do good deeds for the victimized civilian population. The Americans repair the infrastructure, build schools, provide medical attention, etc. This doesn't make the Americans popular with everybody, but it tempers the hatred. Israel has their own variation on this procedure. Whenever Israel goes to war they rob their victims,as well. In the best orwellian fashion, Israel calls their army the "most moral army in the world". You don't often hear this claim outside of Israel these days because of the resulting catcalls, but Israelis still repeat this claim to themselves. Legal claims against Israel? There is certainly enough probable cause.
When Israel has a leader able to speak with such moderate words about peace considering the realities of history please let us know. The palestinians never ever denied any jewish presence in this region of the world. Arafat himself had deep respect and an excellent knowledge of the jewish culture despite the disgusting demonization of Israel. Israelis should learn, open their eyes and take a serious moral examination not only about themselves but also about the palestinians. Once this is done seriously Israel will be integrated in the middle east for eternity.
Truer words were never spoke, dhimmi!
the pa refused to deal with peres,barak olmert beilin sarid livni rabin ramon et al . Even when generous offers were made. The pa just doesn't want an Israel and they hate Jews. The pa wants judenrein pa
Good imagination ? your post is pure invention and propaganda from the very start. What can you do ? you're totally brainwashed.
The indigenous Palestinians were totally accepting of early Jewish settlers, in fact they helped many of them with land cultivation as they were known for their innovation in this area. It was only when they saw that their country was going to be flooded and taken over that the hostility developed..Christians Jews and Muslims had lived together for centuries in peace...
...tragic mistake. It looks as if the palestinian leaders really believe that they can sidestep Israel (and/or the current government in Jerusalem). They also believe that badmouthing Israel now, combined with an attempt to drum up support for the september declaration, will advance their position, weaken Israel and lead to more israeli concessions in the future. The current game is not about independence in september, but about getting more concessions from Israel in 10, 20 or 40 years. But this tactic is, again, a tragic mistake that will complicate an already complex situation.
its the "New York Times"
it's it's
the palestinians have once again shown their true colours.
Somebody has not been paying attention. The "main reson" to establish a Palestinian state is well known by anyone who has followed the issue or who is bright enough to pound sand. The article clearly states that such action would ALSO allow the Palestinians to make legal claims against Israel. Making such ignorant posts is a sign of desperation.
Regretfully, peace is not possible in our lifetime.
once the pals have legal status they will sue israel--the gov.(for properties including those for 1948 and in theOPT) the idf(for deaths of innocents) the settlers and so forth. they will seize and freeze israel and israeli assests overseas. it will be a disaster for israel. israel can only look forward for one thing--- many of our lawyers are jews and they will makes lots especially here in the usa
Poor little tiny Israel, all alone in a wicked hostile world. Poor Israel that must, against its own will, occupy a foreign and stateless population, and has found no other way to avoid legal actions taken against it but to keep building settlements for its own religious fanatics, on a land outside its recognized sovereignty. Poor Israel really.
rejected the partition in 1947 plan outright and started a war, and then they rejected Israel's call after the 6-Day War (which they started and lost) for full peace in exchange for all the land conquered by Israel in that war (the famous 3 no's of Khartoum - no negotiation, no recognition, no peace with Israel). It's time the facts, so well recorded, are disseminated instead of the falsifications and distortions coming out of the mouths of Arab leaders today.
There was no outstretched hand in 67.
What are you talking about
If I were your professor, I'd give you an A plus, outstanding job, Chanah S.
There was no outstretched hand.
Positions change. The League even adopted the Saudi plan that Israel ignores to this day - offering a global settlement. Israel won't negotiate
Does he mean the 1947 UN partition that the Palestinians themselves rejected and tried to abort by force of arms? That unfulfilled UN partition???
"'unfulfilled' 1947 UN partition plan." Was a non binding resolution. Today are this plan is irrelevant.
Abbas wants the palestinians to have the whole old city he doesn't talk about the plan for it to be open to everyone.
Abbas has other ideas if you read what he has to say to the Arabic press. This op-ed, in English, was for American consumption.
A one state solution is exactly what the israeli settlement mouvement also wants. -- "Our settlements prevent the establishment of a Palestinian state in the land of Israel. This is the goal, and this is the reality." Daniella Weiss, a major pro-settlement activist and former mayor of Kedumim (israeli settlement in the WB) answering '60 Minutes' correspondent Bob Simon, in "Time running out for a Two-State Solution?"
Would it also allow a legal action against the Palestinian State?
Abbas' claim that refugees have a "basic human right" to return to their original homes has no basis in international law. The idea that the status oof refugee can be handed down through generations over decades has no basis in international law. Palestinians demand to be treated differently from all other peoples. They should not be allowed to do so.
THINK.
Unprecedented in international law? Certainly. Illegal? Perhaps. The idea that civilians should be allowed to return to their homes after conflict is not merely a basic human right, it is enshrined in: International law declares the basic human right to freedom of movement and residence within the borders of the State. This right is declared in the Universal Declaration of Human Rights (1948) and the International Covenant on Civil and Political Rights (1966). It is also found in the International Convention on the Elimination of all Forms of Racial Discrimination (1965) as a form of illegal discrimination if it is denied. Finally, this right is protected in times of war and military occupation wherein international law forbids both deportation of protected persons from their homelands, and also requires their return home be guaranteed following the end of fighting, if they fled their homes when combat came nearby, or if they were driven away by military forces (Geneva Conventions IV (1949) and Geneva Conventions Protocols I (1977)). The Hague Regulations of 1907, which focuses on military forces themselves, rather than civilians, guarantees the right to return home at the end of fighting for POW's. Now, tell me, as an educated, non-religious person, why I should assume that the Jewish right of return claimed on more than 2000 years of refugee status, is more important than a Palestinian one.
I seem to recall a state being created in order to repatriate people that had had their status of refugee handed down through generations over centuries. Surely you are not demanding that Jews should be treated differently from all other peoples?
as i had posted, the palestinians are the only people to have a special status as refugees.
Firstly Peter, your Islamic Republic of Palestine does not exist. The PA is secular, so any future state of Palestine will be secular, like Syria or Lebanon are similarly secular. The definition of a Palestinian refugee as a person living in Palestine between these dates who was forced to flee during the war does not seem unfair when you consider that any, say, Jordanian with Palestinian refugee status is unlikely to wish to return to his home. However, he may wish for compensation for his lands seized or his home that was demolished/lived in. The special status of the Palestinians as a refugee group including descendants is indeed enshrined by the appropriation of the Palestinian refugee problem in Lebanon, Syria, Jordan by UNRWA. In addition: While paragraph 1 of Article 1D is in effect an exclusion clause, this does not mean that certain groups of Palestinian refugees can never benefit from the protection of the 1951 Convention. Paragraph 2 of Article 1D contains an inclusion clause ensuring the ipso facto entitlement to the protection of the 1951 Convention of those refugees who, without having their position definitively settled in accordance with the relevant UN General Assembly resolutions, have ceased to receive protection or assistance from UNRWA for any reason Cipora, your original point, [sic]"The idea that the status oof refugee can be handed down through generations over decades has no basis in international law." is wrong, as you have admitted by declaring [sic]"as i had posted, the palestinians are the only people to have a special status as refugees." So if the convention of 1951 (and 1967 protocols) excludes the Palestine refugees due to an outstanding legal definition covering Palestine refugees and their descendants, then that original point is invalid, making the applicable law you quote also invalid by token of 1D, which explains that if UNRWA ceases assistance, then the convention will cover the Palestine Refugees. The reason for the special definition for Palestine refugees is the unprecedented manner in which they were forced from their homes, in addition to enforcing their entitlement to compensation.
"as i had posted, the palestinians are the only people to have a special status as refugees." No, actually. You appear to be missing the irony, because as far as zionism is concerned the JEWS also have a special status as refugees. That's why (according to zionists) the Jews were "owed" a state for them to return to., precisely because their "refugee status" has passed down through the millenia.
"as i had posted, the palestinians are the only people to have a special status as refugees." No, actually. You appear to be missing the irony, because as far as zionism is concerned the JEWS also have a special status as refugees. That's why the world "owed" the Jews a state i.e. their "special refugee status" has passed down through the millenia.
and his obsession with Islam............you abviously have no clue at all.
Just because some countries are promoting a state means nothing.They do not have to live in Israel That Abbas decided by receiving from them the acceptance of a state has emboldend him cynically to come out with the this latest which is going to slap them in the face if they continue demanding the
Just because some countries are promoting a state means nothing.They do not have to live in Israel That Abbas decided by receiving from them the acceptance of a state has emboldend him cynically to come out with the this latest which is going to slap them in the face if they continue demanding the UNACCEPTABLE digging their own grave as a consequence..Will they ever learn...........not as far as we can see,
the Jews did not return to specific properties - and no one is saying the Palestinians can't return to their own state
The Refugees are a poltical tool and their refugee status is a deliberate policy of the Arab league.Their wish to live in peace with their neighbours,as the NON binding UN resolution calls for, has been repeatedly demonstrated by them not to be the case. PS As a Neturei Karta member what are you doing on this "goyishe website" on a computer noch? It all just does not add up.
Again what's your problem with Islam ? it's becoming a real obsession....get a doctor or something...or at least get a bot of proper education. You're embarassing yourself.
You do have a problem with Islam. Are you some kind of ignorant Islamophobic ? appart from the crap that you hear and read in your medias what on earth do you know about the arab world, Palestine and Islam ? do you think arab are just 'camel riders' ? Deal with Shas, Lieberman and the extreme right in Israel. Deal with the racist laws passed but please mind your own business. You do not have any lessons to give.
There are no 'palestinians'... The last of the Canaanites were killed off when the Assyrians deported the ten northern tribes to northern Iraq. The land was left desolate. The inflitrators were brought into the land from where ever the Assyrians took them to work the fields for them. The rest of the people there were Arabs. There are no 'palestinians'!
But maybe they consider the land of Israel as Muslim land and try to take it back from infidels?
"ONCE admitted to the United Nations, our state stands ready to negotiate all core issues of the conflict with Israel." Hence, Abbas wants a state before negotiating the core issues and without an end to the conflict. His proposal will only perpetuate the conflict indefinitely.
That might be how you negotiate. But it is not common to refuse to even look at or listen to the ideas of those you negotiate with. Will any Israeli Likud government ever negotiate, not dictate, in good faith?
Bibi ordered his people to neither listen to nor read any proposal. Afraid of touching the paper or the envelope.
Are you really trying to argue that no conflict has ever been resolved by bilateral negotiations between two sovereign states?
It is an Ill wind blowing israel's way.. If he thinks Israel will ever accept RoR ,or any of hid cynical demands that would exacerbate into a war.if he is not careful CJK What he is has and is doing is to by trurning the clock back he will once again(he omitted it) ..Back to SQUARE one.. Jews into the SEA.(haz ve shalom) .. What hutzpah from this hypocrite who as yet has to have a viable state anyhow..
most of his arguements dont hold water. However if he used his brain more frequently than his mouth he would see that under the right conditions, conditions free of threats of infitada and revolutionary rhetoric a solutuion could be found and a bright future could be had for the Palestinian people who are yearning for statehood and REAL LEADERSHIP!!!
Olso Accords. Learn Your History.
No conflict has ever been resolved by bilateral negotiations between to sovereign states which religiously oppose each other's existence. There's no reason, if humankind was reasonable, that it shouldn't be resolved otherwise.
On April 16, the same day that British forces evacuated Safed, 200 local Arab militiamen, supported by over 200 Arab Liberation Army soldiers, tried to take over the city's Jewish Quarter. They were repelled by the Jewish garrison, consisting of some 200 Haganah fighters, men and women, boosted by a Palmach platoon. The Palmach ground attack on the Arab section Safed took place on 6 May, as a part of Operation Yiftah. The first phase of the Palmach plan to capture Safed, was to secure a corridor through the mountains by capturing the Arab village of Birya. The Arab Liberation Army had plans to take over the whole city on May 10, and in the meantime placed artillery pieces on a hill adjacent to the Jewish quarter and started its shelling. The Third Battalion failed to take the main objective, the "citadel", but "terrified" the Arab population sufficiently to prompt further flight, as well as urgent appeals for outside help and an effort to obtain a truce... "The Arabs of Safed began to leave, including the commander of the Arab forces, Adib Shishakli (later Prime Minister of Syria). With the police fort on Mount Canaan isolated, its defenders withdrew without fighting. The fall of Safed was a blow to Arab morale throughout the region.....With the invasion of Palestine by regular Arab armies believed to be imminent - once the British had finally left in elven or twelve days' time - many Arabs felt that prudence dictated their departure until the Jews had been defeated and they could return to their homes... abbas was 13 when his family left safed...
Ignoring this is ignoring everything.
that same sentence caught my eye too. not that tehy shouldn't get a state, but that was a pure lie.
you can't have the cake and eat it at the same time. And Mr. Abbas who is holding a Jordanian citizenship, might consider it fair to educate his electorate about this important "Palestinian" nationality.
And all the Jewish US Congressmen would have to resign since they are no longer citizens.
Arab Israelis are Israeli citizens and nothing that happens beyond Israel's borders can alter this fact.
as a jew(Neturei Karta ) from California, I support everyword you said. we back you up against the zionism.
Arab states didn't interevene to stop expulsions! What a self-serving analysis. And why wasn't there a state in the West Bank and Gaza from '48 to '67? Because of Israel?
"Arab states didn't interevene to stop expulsions!" Of course they did, McQueen. Over half of those 700,000 refugees were ALREADY on the road when those Arab Armies tried to put a stop to this. "And why wasn't there a state in the West Bank and Gaza from '48 to '67?" Because doing that meant conceding the (more than) 50% of the "arab state" that Israel had seized and annexed 1948-49, and at that time the Palestinians weren't willing to concede that point.
Well, actually yes.
No mulligans, sorry
establishing a state in WB and Gaza in 1948 would not have precluded any other claims
Fighting for a Palestinian state in the West Bank and Gaza from '48 to '67, would have meant confronting three antagonist neighbours, Egypt, Israel, and Jordan. Way too much for a people split in two. -- "If we don't end the occupation, it would end us." (Haim Ramon, former Israeli Justice Minister.) - "We must have a Palestinian state in our neighborhood, or we will become a Palestinian state." Yehoshafat Harkabi (1921-1994), chief of Military Intelligence 1955-1959, then head of ME Studies at the Hebrew U, Jerusalem.
"establishing a state in WB and Gaza in 1948 would not have precluded any other claims" That is, of course, exactly Abbas' current argument. I'll point out that it is an argument that has been emphatically rejected by Israel. It would *also* have been emphatically reject by Israel in 1949 i.e. the moment the Palestinians declared THAT state on THAT territory Israel would have cried "Yippppppeeeeee!" and insisted that everything else belonged to it.
....for the Arab State for 62 years..... http://wp.me/pDB7k-jA
Because this will definitely insure continuation of the conflict. Oh well...
In the course of its short history, Israel has proved more than once that it is much better equipped for standing up against hostile states rather than for confronting a military occupied stateless population. Time is long past when subjugation of one people by another could lead to peace, when an army, clashing, not with another army but with an occupied stateless people, could bring a decisive military solution. - The lesson other nations (far mightier than Israel can ever be) learned long ago, Israel is still ignoring, after 44 years of totally unsuccessful efforts. - "If men could learn from history, what lessons it might teach us. But passion and party blind our eyes, and the light, which experience gives us, is a lantern on the stern, which shines only on the waves behind us." (S.T. Coleridge)
Arabs are openly saying they will attack Israel again as soon as they feel they can win, peace agreement or no peace agreement. Absolute majority of Israelis don't care about any particular piece of land, and certainly have no interest in occupying any population. But they feel the only thing that keeps them alive is strong Israeli army, completely irrespective of anything else they do. Whatever land they give to Palestinians, whatever peace agreements they sign, they will be attacked again the moment Arabs feel they can win. Israel's destruction has always been the Arab's openly declared goal, and still is, peace agreement or no peace agreement.
Who do you think you can fool? Building settlements on territories outside its recognized borders, amidst a foreign and stateless population, is no way for a so-called peace-seeking state to fight for its survival. Israel is now fighting to keep under its control as big a chunk of the West Bank as possible, if not all of it. -- "We are heading downhill towards near-catastrophe. If we go on living by the sword, we will continue to wallow in the mud and destroy ourselves." (Yaakov Perry, former Shin Bet chief, Nov 2003). www.guardian.co.uk/world/2003/nov/15/israel -- "If we don't end the occupation, the occupation will end us." (Haim Ramon, former Labor Minister of Justice, Ynet, Apr 12, 2005) -- -- "To recognize error, to cut losses, to alter course, is the most repugnant option in government." (Historian Barbara Tuchman, twice winner of the Pulitzer Price, in her "March of Folly - From Troy to Vietnam", 1984)
Upon the U.N. declaration and global affirmation of the Jewish State of Israel, the Arab countries attacked it and really began the impetus of refugees fleeing in fear. And with the newly created state, Jewish communities around the whole Middle East had to basically dissolve thousands of years of their historical presence and renounce citizenships and properties. But with the reading of this op-ed, then it seems that President Abbas speaks on behalf of Hamas who will recognize the two states coexisting, one being the Jewish national state and the other Palestinian.
He seems to anticipate the worst...
And yes he is anticipating the worst.Why? Because for them THE WORST is yet to come and they KNOW it.
And Yad Mordechai , Ad Halom or Galilee?Any link?
Those that do would have some very hard questions for Abbas. Questions that he would not want to answer. Questions about hamas, so called refugees, claims against Israel, recognition of Isreal as a Jewish state, his personal rhetoric, talking to the Israelis in one voice and his Arabs in another. Abbas does not want to talk with the American congress. Abbas wants to talk to South America and the Arab League.
Glass breaks! Wind.
Cya dont want to be ya
Sin is the issue here not politics