Cabinet likely to discuss probing Goldstone Gaza Report findings

who`s guilty always gets a lawyer

DI: "Kemp`s words are as good as Goldstone`s." No, Kemp's words were merely pontification, being completely devoid of any facts. Goldstone's report is replete with facts found and meticulously discussed by the authors. They are in no way the equal, one to the other.

You believe in Godstone report (which BTW also condemns Hamas but you and the Arab world does not take intro consideration) an dI prefer to believe in Kemp's. Kemp's words are as good as Goldstone's. The truth is somewhere in the middle.

David, that testimony amounted to exactly this: "Mr President, I would like to take this opportunity to inform the council that it is my opinion that you can believe whatever the IDF spokesmodel chooses to say." Because, when it is all said and done, that's all that Kemp said. He mentions the letter-drops/phone calls to "Flee! Flee!", but didn't mention that the IDF had already trapped the civvies inside Gaza City i.e. the IDF ensured they couldn't flee. He mentions "huge amounts" of aid, without telling us how much aid he considers "huge" (or that he even *knows* how much aid was delivered). He talks about "aborted missions", without detailing a single one (or that he even *knows* the details of any of them). In short: he assured us that he is an "expert", but without making the slightest attempt to demonstrate that he is on top of his brief.

would any other army have done it differently ? that is the whole rejection basis of his 576 pages of garbage that he did not apply this yardstick before faking evidence!!!

The Gaza War, the Goldstone report, and the aftermath were all mismanaged by Israel's leadership, going from one foul up to another. From the beginning, banning journalists from entering was counter to the behaviour of all democratic societies and lent credence to the suspicion that Israel felt guilty and was hiding something. Using phosphorous shells that were filmed and widely seen on all the media was unecessary, and the denials were lame and false. Not cooperating with Goldstone only further fueled the suspicions that Israel felt guilty. Goldstones error was in not addressing Hamas' responsiblity for the war thru it's rocketting of civilian areas. Not Goldstone or any other pundit or body can give a better military plan than the one israel used. Both Hezbollah and Hamas have stopped rocketting. The Arabs understand brute force. Goldstone only understands narrow legalistic rhetoric and playing fair to the point of unfairness. He has lent himself to be used as a puppet..

in the report.So they do not need to look anything Any problems there for you?

you are not able to understand that the violence of hamas brought to cast lead. we went through years of suicide bombs that killed hundreds of CIVILIANS ONLY. we went through 8 years of qassams. what do you think Israel could do? keep smiling in silence? Hamas caused the war and got whatever it deserved. full stop. VIOLENCE BRING VIOLENCE. IN THIS TOO LONG WAR THERE ARE DEADS IN BOTH SIDES NOT ONLY IN YOUR SIDE, ARE YOU ABLE TO UNDERSTAND THIS POINT? The war is made by 2 sides, both get killed and soffer. Both make mistakes. Palestinians always choose violence and terror instead of the dialog and negotiations. This violence brough violence. They must stop once for all and start a serious talk with Israelis that brings to the establish of a peacefull Palestinian state next to Israel. There is no other choice to achive peace. Do you understand?

shooting between civillians,guarranteed civillian casualties from amongst the civillians,they knew it,you know it Goldstone chose to ignore it. 1400 people killed in weeks of fighting. Much lower ratio of civillians to fighters than most urban conflicts. Firing thousands of missiles at Israeli civillians is attempted mass murder then you cry victim if years later Israel moved in.

"The UN has become a mouthpiece for the scum of the earth. How dare they dictate to Israel!" Ah! A graduate of Lieberman Diplomatic College. Do carry on with the great man's work.

Netanyahu pledged...that Israel would ensure that the report would be vetoed." Note that The Big N does not "hope" that the report will be vetoed. He does not say "maybe" the report will be vetoed. He can "ensure" that it will be vetoed. He may not yet have told the Americans that they will employ their veto, but it doesn't matter. Such is his utter control over their government.

Finally an Israeli with common sense. Kol HaKavod to Avi Primor for speaking out. Judge Goldstone's report riases issues that cannot be swept under the rug. The lack of cooperation by Israel and its representative in Geneva, fully documented in teh appendix to teh report is baffling. What were messrs Netanyahu, Barak etc. thinking? If Israel is to be a light unto the nations then its needs to take seriously some of the issues raised by Judge Goldstone, a man who was not afraid to confront the apartheid regime at graet personal risk.

you're absolutely right if THAT"S what you mean. unfortunately, that would require leadership from the united states, because none of its allies and friends will step very far outside the boundaries of its approval... and with the invasive tendrils of aipac interwoven into every nook and cranny of the american government... it's not likely happen any time soon.

It doesn't matter what Israel does, it's always guilty in the eyes of the UN.

The war in Gaza was a trap! Designed & succeeded by the palestinians. It is too late for israel to change the outcome. The rockets the palestinians kept sending was meant to ends up by israel hitting them harder so they can win the propaganda war. The palestinians main weapon was always to win sympathy by self infliction.Self infliction is their best weapon since this conflict started. The more the palestinians present themselves as victims,the more they win supporters & friends;both among the arabs and the world. Cast lead gave them all that & the goldstone report gave them a historic winning. The world is blind to the facts and ready to believe lies. Is there a lesson for Israel to learn from cast lead? The answer is simple. The palestinians are not a country that can be fought in a battlefield. the palestinians are rabbles,they exercise as lawless terrorists. israel must fight them as they are & fight them with special forces that eliminate them where they are to be found.

DI: "General Richard Kemp`s letter to UNHRC" His oral presentation: http://rickscafamerican.blogspot.com/2009/10/richard-kemp-on-gaza-operation.html It is a regurgitation of the Israeli hasbarah line, and when you read it you see he may as well have stood up and said: "Mr. President, I just wanted to have it put on the record that I agree with everything the IDF spokesmodel has ever said. Thank you for your time." One example: he points out that Israel dropped leaflets/made phone calls telling civilians to "flee", but without mentioning that the IDF was preventing any "civilian flight". Another: He mentions "missions being aborted", but without providing a single example. Another: He mentions "huge amounts of aid" being delivered, without once describing how much, and why such an amount is "huge". Basically, a worthless contribution that was long on pontification and extremely short on facts.

Just who does Bibi think will veto the Gaza report for him? It is EXTREMELY unlikely any UN veto holder besides the US would even consider helping Israel. The US risks its very future by helping Israel and after all the terrible things Bibi has done to the US and Obama, why would they want to help out Israel. If the US vetoes the Gaza report to help Israel it will lose all credibility in the world and will have a hard time getting anything done from that point on. Keep in mind that countries representing over 75% of the people on the earth voted AGAINST Israel and the US. Those people can make life very bad for Israelis and Americans. That being said, since the US government is owned by Israel, the US will probably veto anything negative to Israel and the people of the US will suffer a lot in the long term. From a strictly "what is best for the US" perspective, it would be best if the US team @ the UN, called in "sick" the day the Gaza vote came up.

Here is the Goldstone report, with its shocking facts and its damning conclusions. Here is that report's recommendation: investigate those facts, or have the ICC do it for you. Here is Netanyahu, mulling a response that amounts to this: let's establish an investigation into WHY GOLDSTONE MADE THAT RECOMMENDATION. Or, put another way: our smear campaign didn't work, so we better set up an OFFICIAL committee to OFFICIALLY smear Goldstone. Guys, you are too late. Way, way, way too late.

"Prime Minister Benjamin Netanyahu pledged on Monday that Israel would ensure that the report would be vetoed at the United Nations General Assembly." Bibi has flipped or is on drugs. I just reread the UN Charter to confirm that no country has a veto in the General Assembly. In the Human Rights Council, where there is no veto power, 2/5 (Russia, China) with Security Council veto power voted against Israel and 2/5 (France, UK) did not vote despite heavy lobbying by Israel. The US was the only country with a SC veto to vote against the Report and Bibi is doing everything he can to alienate the US. Given recent increases in settlemnt construction, the US veto is certainly nothing Bibi can pledge to anyone. His comment about the General Assembly is nothing short of bizarre, Having been a UN diplomat himself, certainly Bibi once knew there's no General Assembly veto. There is, I suggest, strong reason to question his mental and emotional stability.

It's interesting the Bibi thinks he can ensure a veto..Now thats the confidence that comes with owning the best congress money can buy

Had you read the entire Goldstone Report, you would know how wrong you are.

Just as the U.S vetoes all U.N Resolutions against Israel, why would this be any different?

Colonel Richard Kemp, not General.

If the whole world knows Israel isn't interested in the truth, ever -- and it does -- why bother setting up a commission whose goal isn't to find the truth? Will the Jewish state ever regard the non-Jewish world with anything but contempt? That is the question.

Since I believe that you and I are in agreement more than we are in opposition, I have no criticism to make of you. As for your charge that I commonly engage in hyperbole, I plead guilty. I do not consider this a failing however. It is appropriate for the venue and the company we commonly keep on talkback.

I read and reread Natallie's post and I don't see it. Israel has indeed been involved in myriad coverups, shady spy deals and such, there is an active boycott of the Goldstone Report, it started at its inception when the missions was first announced years ago, you commented on it here at Haaretz. Israel just pulled textbooks that explained the Nakba, but the Nakba is now banned in Israel, so the textbooks will be wiped of the truth, it was in yesterday's Haaretz, and I know you read the articles. Israel refused to participate in the Goldstone Report, and is now excoriating Richard Goldstone, who is by all accounts a good Jew, a Zionist supporter, a Hebrew University board member, and his daughter has made Aliyah, instead of reading the damned report! Those who have read it know Bibi is lying. What to do about that Esther? And I still don't see the hyperbole.

It's about time the Israeli govt woke up and appointed a high court justice to chair an investigative commission. They should have done this even before Goldstone's Report.

"If Mr. Goldstone had described Hamas as war criminals and then criticized the way that Israel conducted this war, it would have been received differently by us," Primor added. This shows a total lack of understanding about what a war crime is. A war crime is exactly a violation in how a war is conducted. Mr. Primor's idea that the Goldstone Report should have laid blame for the war on one of the parties involved is exactly opposite of the purpose of a report on war crimes. "Crimes against peace" are violations of ceasefires, etc. "War crimes" are violations of int'l law regulating conduct in war. Israeli spokesperson fail. Read a law book.

Because in the end, Israel's ruling class don?t want; 1). Scrutiny 2). Accountability 3). Peace For all the flap about the horrible things said by Mahmoud Ahmadinejad, Benjamin Netanyahu and others over the years aren?t adverse to using such language as, ?we?ll push them into the sea?. Israel does have a right to exist but only if it can coexist with Gaza, Palestine and all of the other original inhabitants in the region. You?d think, given the traumatic past of the Jews that someone, some where would say stop, oh, that is right they are but are routinely ignored, fired upon like canon fodder or labelled traitors within Israel it?s self. They just happen to be the moderates and the next generation who actually do want peace in their life time.

It was so obvious that Israel and all the top military leaders commited war crimes! Only blind people say not. For the love of God; they have killed so many children and women. Even UN schools were bombed. Open your eyes and mind to the ugly side of the most racist country in the world: ISRAEL

how an American Scientist working for NASA was attempting to spy for Israel first. And didn't he say he would prevent the Goldstone Report being sent to New York for further perusal by the United Nations Security Council. It might play well for an Israeli audience, but Netanyahu is yet again writing cheques that he cannot opossibly cash. Bibi how is the Budget negotiations going?

Then think of some credible way to answer it. Such as the out that Goldstone proffered. An honest, open, investigation.

The US has a veto in the Security, but not in the General Assembly. Doesn't Netanyahoo know this?

Order the USA to clean up again our mess!

preassure against israel is rising. the usa will not always veto for us. goldsrtone may be the first but surely not the last!

Bibi must have felt the U.S isn't too keen on placing a veto, only cause a veto by the U.S under these circumstances will only strengthen its hard line enemies in the middle east and further weakening its more moderate allies, yet again isn't that what Israel strives for??

I allways found him extremly uninteresting. He may have been not a part of that VERY special Jewish lobby in Germany, but all people I know who like him are extremly boring. Maybe he can be compar5ed with Alfred Grosser in relation to France who is also pretty boring. And for shure not a part of the German gouvernement.

Circle the wagons and hunker down! Any attack on Israel must be met by closing ranks, ignoring what anyone else says and shouting "Anti-semitism"! The ostrich defense? Or Israel could grow up and face it's attackers and use logic, reason and dialogue? The shtetl mentality is a natural response but belongs to the 19th century, not the 21st!

And, due to that boycott, and the attacks on the report, it won't be possible to, like the US did, blame it all on "a few bad apples", and have that be enough. (oh, and #5, Abbas and Hamas have both said OK to an investigation. Which leaves little time before Israel looks like the ones who reluctantly came to the idea of investigating, and will need a more thorough one than Hamas to be able to run their's down)

Before evaluating what Primor said, it might be interesting to know what positions he had taken over the years with respect to Israel. To make it short, he did and constantly does whatever might serve HIMSELF and his position of an appeasing Jew who - one can say - is more in the service of the German political establishment than a friend Israel's. Google him and you will know better.

The distinguished ambassador is utterly wrong in his opinion. How,logically, could Israel accept a Fact Finding mission based on a mandate that determines in advance that Israel has committed war crimes, and whose participants include those who have openly condemned Israel? Since the ambassador has had no experience in UN matters, it would have been preferable had he not voiced his opinion.

provides ample evidence why his son, Binyamin, wisely and correctly refused to allow the nation of Israel to be put on trial by evildoers. Proud IDF officer.

Stone walling never accomplishes anything. It just delays the inevitable. Even more so now, the world will see what really happened in Gaza. Israel cannot cover up its transgressions by public relations campaigns. Similarly the Israeli stone wall on settlements will just prolong the suffering of the Palestinians with no lasting peace. Quick fixes let the politicians feel good while the Palestinians are neglected.

... but you stifle your message with hyperbole... ... a common failing of yours...

The ball's still in our court - Israel must exhaustively investigate and prosecute our OWN war criminals before we find Olmert, Ashkenazi, and the IAF being tried in abstentia at the International Criminal Court. This is what I have been saying all along - we have 6 months to do this or we are TOAST. Better in our courts rather than the International Criminal Court.

Israeli participation would have made no difference at all. The Goldstone team was provided both documentation and direct testimony by Israelis, UK Gen. Kemp, and others. Goldstone chose to ignore it all while giving presumptive credibility to Hamas provided witnesses and anti-Israel NGOs. Primor is a fool.

what we do know as fact is that Israel suffered 8,000 Qassams over a period of 8 years. We also know that Israelis demanded action to prevent more. Whether or not we believe that invading Gaza and the manner in which it was done is debatable. What is also fact however, and cannot be debated is the millions massacred in Iraq, Afghanistan, Vietnam before it and all the deaths brought on by your Imperialistic Nation. You look for a solution when YOU the mighty USA are the problem.

General Richard Kemp ? The head of the British contingent in Afghanistan ? wrote to Alex Van Meeuwen - the head of UN Human Rights Council ? The IDF took more precautions during operation cast lead then any other army in the world would have taken to save the lives of civilians in combat zone.

let's be honest - Israel had the right to defend itself against Hamas thugs and hoodlums. The problem is that Israekl lost the PR war, not the fight against terror. Despite all what has been said, I still have a lot of admiration for the Jewish state because of its democracy and freedom. (Thanks Mirvat)

you keep saying Self defense of ur country does not justify mass murder. but when it comes to mass murder attempts made by hamas and before by fatah u say nothing?? remember Fatah and hamas too ''defends'' their country by FORCE! making the occupation their pretext to attack isr... so if the pretext is the occupation its ok to mass murder the people but when its self defense its not? so tell me whats the motivation of the ''occupation'' from 1967? its the attacks made from WB under the jordanian occupation force in palestine.

Nothing like refusing to cooperate with the report and then denouncing it as biased. Nothing like a campaign of smears and lies that could not survive a reading of the report. The whole issue of the investigation and response to the report was either the result of incredible stupidity, or fear the truth would be learned. Given the nature of Olmert and Netanyahu, the cause for the totally botched response to the investigation and report could easily be either, or both.

Nothing like refusing to cooperate with the report and then denouncing it as biased. Nothing like a campaign of smears and lies that could not survive a reading of the report. The whole issue of the investigation and response to the report was either the result of incredible stupidity, or fear the truth would be learned. Given the nature of Olmert and Netanyahu, the cause for the totally botched response to the investigation and report could easily be either, or both.

we were wrong not to read it. Our "leaders" were attacking it without reading it through - very foolish!

This is why Hamas has rejected the report (as well as the Israeli govt)

THIS is pure sanctimony and hypocrisy. There is no equation between using primitive and nearly innocuous projectiles, even against civilians, on the one hand, and, on the otehr hand, employing a huge arsenal of war, incluidng hundreds of F-16s, Helicopter gunship, White Phosphorus, Merkava Tanks, depleted uranium, and other weapons of death, against a nearly totally unprotected civilian population. You can't indiscriminately target a civilian population and then claim "self-defense" as an excuse. Self-defense is not a mantra that justifies genocidal war crimes and crimes against humanity.

Coverups, boycotts of investigations, and banning books are always signs of guilt. These things make Israel look guilty even to people who have no idea whether Israel is guilty of the offenses under quesion. It is appropriate for Israel to look guilty since Israel is guilty. It is just a surprise that Israels doesn't seem to understand this.

mbassador Primor avers that if the blame would have been put squarely on the shoulders of Hamas and Israel's devastation of Gaza would been explained as an inevitable response to Hamas' initiation of the hostilities, Thr Report would be adopted by Israel. Of course. But what if the report would have described the Hamas' rocket barrage as an inevitable response to the 42 years brutal occupation and inhumane siege of the Gaza strip by the IDF ?. There cannot be a balancing act here neither equivalency. The root causes of the conflict are known and over the length of its duration no serious attempts have been made to diffuse and do away with it. Israel did not cooporate with the UN because it knew the report could not have been balanced because the conlicked lacks balance and it knew from its own soldiers that crimes have been committed in order to minimize its own casualties whatever the price the Palestinians had to pay.

No matter what Israel could have said to the Goldstone tribunal it would have been ignored. After all he slept through the unoficial Israeli presentation! So the boycott was correct and the refusal to comply with the UN 'Human Rights' ruling is also correct. The UN has become a mouthpiece for the scum of the earth. How dare they dictate to Israel!