'British MPs seek review of arms exports to Israel'

Israeli propaganda constantly tries to make the point: there were rockets before the blockade. But it is not true and it is dishonest for Jews to keep repeating it. The blockade started in Sept 2000 along with closure of Gaza airport. Immediate economic effect were losses in area of $5.3 billion. In Sept 2001 Israel established a buffer zone that sealed all entry and exit points. After 9 Oct 2001, movement of people and goods between Israel and Gaza was halted, and complete internal closure was effected 14 Nov 2001. The first Qassam rocket was fired into Israel on 10 February 2002. Israel is, and will, lose the PR battle over Gaza. The international community views the Gazans as victims. No on expects Israel to be able to effectively try to starve 1.5 million people into submission without retaliation. Occupied Europeans resisted the Germans, the Algerians and Vietnamese resisted the French, and the Kenyans and Cypriots resisted the British. Israel is just another occupying power.

Goldstone should be under rocket fire in order to empathise with Sderot? Like claiming one needs to be raped before one can empaphise with a rape victim. Regardless, Israel could have ended rocket threat[ by the way, it still hasn't don't so despite its bloodletting in Gaza]but it refused to extend the 2008 ceasfir longer term in return for a lifting of the siege. Hence your claims are null and void and more importantly *devoid* of any humanity. eg. Even if i threaten your life and assault you it does not give you the right to kill me my children, my neighbours and their children and then claim rightful self defence. ie. the equivalent of ten deaths in 8 years of rocket fire on Sderot answered by over a thousand civilians killed IN Gaza even 'before' Cast Lead and another thousand during it. All to no avail!!!

'Miliband, the FM and favourite for future Labour leader is, it so happens Jewish by the way.' I'm glad you reminded me. I attended his Bar Mitzvah, years ago. No, I didn't give him a pen and pencil set. Goldstone is Jewish, too, and although I never attended *his* Bar Mitzvah, I can tell you that neither he nor Miliband have any idea of what life is like, living under the threat (and the actuality) of rocket bombardment. Hide behind the Geneva Convention all you want - but it's nothing more than a scrap of paper used by those defending the thugs and murderers of Hamas. And it certainly isn't a suicide pact for the Israelis. Let these Jews live in Sderot long enough to know its citizens, and then for a rocket to hit a school, a bus, a synagogue, a business. Suddenly, all their earlier complaints against Israel will seem quite academic to them. MV

'Even if Gaza is run by Adolph Hitler, article 33 remains in effect. Article 33 refers to that article in the 4th Geneva Convention which declares collective punishment of a civilian population to be a war crime.' Gaza is run by people who have many of the same goals as did Adolph Hitler. Quote the Geneva Convention all you like, but it's not a suicide pact, and the Israelis would be mad to follow it. Further, ask yourself who is really responsible for the collective punishment of the Gazans. Do you think if Hamas was launching sufganiyot into S Israel, instead of rockets, the Israelis would have imposed the blockade? There comes a point where common sense and ivory tower tut-tutting part ways. I would advise you use more of the former, and far less of the latter. MV

'... it`s ruthless enough what we did in Gaza, whether or not it`s occupied territory.' But it pales in comparison to what your enemies will do to you, given the means and chances. MV

Tell the Brits to take all there exports and put it where the moon doesn't shine

They should be happy that the IDF would buy such unreliable gear. British military hardware is not up to date with 21st century warfare requirements.One glance at the UK soldiers'gear in Iraq and Afganistan shows just how embarrasingly backwards they are today. The only thinkg they seem to excel in seems to be roadside kebab stands, Tandouri chicken, and good ol' appeasement to dictators of all stripes. The only thing the English are good at making these days are roadkill kebabs, tandouri chicken and their legendary appeasement politics. Israel, spend your hard earned cash in the US.

If the Brits are too politically correct to sell Israel what it needs to defend itself, then PLEASE buy from manufacturers in the States. We love your business!!

You are wrong about the Israeli occupation of Gaza. The only legal reference to the question of occupation of Gaza is the Hague Regulations (Hague IV,art.42). Under the terms of the Hague Regulations, Israel is still an occupying power as it continues to exercise effective control: Israel controls the borders and access into and out of Gaza, including the sea and air space; Israel has also reserved (and has exercised) the right to intervene militarily in Gaza and continued to control Gaza's infrastructure (water and electricity, fuel, imports/exports, radio and TV frequencies, etc.) Israel is thus bound by the responsibilities of an occupying power. Even if Gaza is run by Adolph Hitler, article 33 remains in effect. Article 33 refers to that article in the 4th Geneva Convention which declares collective punishment of a civilian population to be a war crime.

Neither the U.S. nor the U.K. is colonizing Afghanistan and Iraq and usurping Afghans and Iraqis.

The brits are willing to sell us weapons on the sole condition that we never use it against the poeple that shot more than 5000 rockets at our civilian population. Who they allow us to use these weapons against? Switzerland? It just happens to be that the Swiss are not our enemies. The only people that try to kill us ARE the Arabs, the same people the brits won't allow us to defend against...

Israel has always used British and American weapons for offensive purposes. It continues to do so because both countries do not enforce their own rules when it comes to Israel. This breeds resentment.

We are told that the seven key ministers in Netanyahu's government do not want to budge on construction on East Jerusalem. This is the context in which UK MPs are raising questions over Cast Lead. The right wing is weaving an ever tighter narrative that Israel prefers building in E. Jerusalem to peace, and the UK reaction on Cast Lead is just one of the consequences. There will be more. Israel's present position on E. Jerusalem, unlike Olmert's or Barak's previous positions, is untenable. The pity of it from the narrow Israeli position is that Israel may be sacrificing achievable goals on security and cultural recognition for unachievable goals on Jerusalem.

israel must stop being an occupying power and should retreat beyond the green zone.

stop exporting arms to israel. israel'criteria of defence equals to attack attack attack.

New alignment and new allies shall be construct in the 21st century. It is time to remember who were our friends for convenience in the past and who were friends in difficult times. Dan comes from North.

Thank you very much Mr. Tim Sebastian, the British dignitary journalist, who is working so hard on the behalf of the Moslems [Arabs & Palestinians] against Israel and the Jewish. Mr. Sebastian, which based in Docha-Qatar, is the advocate [of the ...] who is doing his job very well, and the fruit of his doing is showing already.

Then purchase your weapons and electronics from other sources. There are plenty of other countries that prodiuce weapons. If you do not wish to abide by the agreements that you signed when purchasing the Head up Display's from the United Kingdom. Then use the original HUDS fitted to the F16 and produced in the UK. Yes I can see your problem.

We are not saying that israel cannot defend itself. What we are saying is that Israel cannot buy British weapons and then proceed to use them against the Palestinians in Gaza or the West Bank as per the agreement Israel signed when purchasing the weapons. Israel obviously doesn't have to purchase the head up Displays if it does not wish to do so.

You probably mean well, but to call someone of Pakistani origin a 'Paki' is widely regarded as an insult rather than just an abbreviation, at least here in the UK. Along the lines of 'yid' or 'wop'. As for them having a 'toehold' in the UK, that is like saying the Jews control America. Only at least in America, one can argue that Jews do hold a disproportionate amount of the top jobs in government and finance and possess a disproportionate amount of wealth. Not so the Pakistanis in the UK. They are well underrepresented in the wealth and power stakes. As for the 'Left'. I wish they did hold sway, but you are at least 35 years out of date. Not since pre thatcher days has there been a credible 'Left' in the UK. Both main parties are centrists now. Unions are as weak as they have ever been, which is why the UK have followed the so called Anglo Saxon model of neo-liberal finance along with the US as opposed to more socially inclusive policies in France and Germany. The political trend in UK is toward the center or right since the late 70s.

could be selling bullets to our soldiers in Afghanistan and Iraq who are having to buy their own kit so that they can die for queen and country in a War that none of them understand or have bought into.

The British call it "Falklands", but, as everyone knows, GB conquered the Malvinas from Argentina. They are occupying sovereign Argentinian territory, whereas Gaza is legally defined as "disputed territory", since there has never been a Palestinian State to exercise sovereignty over it.

The Britsh should look first in their war conduct in Iraq, Afganistan and all other colonies they ruled in the past. Regarding weapons I don't think Israel need to buy British weapons as it has much more advance systems.

...whether or nots it's occupied territory...

We'll just buy'em some where else! No biggie.

as per usual. Most legal authorities still argue that Gaza is in effect occupied-NOT just Britain and Hamas.Miliband, the FM and favourite for future Labour leader is, it so happens Jewish by the way. That finale where you state that: "What is really being said by these MPs is that Israel has no right to self-defence, full stop." is utter nonsense. They simply do not approve of massacres involving hundreds of women and children by sophisticated battlefield weaponry assisted by white phosphorous in order to maximise pain and suffering of civilians. That's not called self defence but rather gorging on bloodlust. Regardless, you will probably change your mind next week if the mood takes you...

When US sells military products to the Israelis, there are export controls palced on the sales.(Remember, the sales are after the USA "gifts" the FMF monies to Israel.) The weapons and weapon systems are intended ONLY for DEFENSIVE PURPOSES. Two examples, which are prohibited, the white phosphurous bombs used in Gaza and the "cluster bombs" used in Lebanon.

You probably mean well, but to call someone of Pakistani origin a 'Paki' is widely regarded as an insult rather than just an abbreviation, at least here in the UK. Along the lines of 'yid' or 'wop'. As for them having a 'toehold' in the UK, that is like saying the Jews control America. Only at least in America, one can argue that Jews do hold a disproportionate amount of the top jobs in government and finance and possess a disproportionate amount of wealth. Not so the Pakistanis in the UK. They are well underrepresented in the wealth and power stakes. As for the 'Left'. I wish they did hold sway, but you are at least 35 years out of date. Not since pre thatcher days has there been a credible 'Left' in the UK. Both main parties are centrists now. Unions are as weak as they have ever been, which is why the UK have followed the so called Anglo Saxon model of neo-liberal finance along with the US as opposed to more socially inclusive policies in France and Germany. The political trend in UK is toward the center or right since the late 70s.

gaza is not longer occupied territory. have you forgotten the gaza withdrawal in 2005 which made hamas able to shoot at israel and to put in danger the lives of thousands of israelis within the green line? btw: why does the topic of reviewing arms export to israel comes up now? do these british lawmakers hope to get the muslim votes by this?

It's really quite simple. The sales contract stipulated that these weapons should not be used in the occupied lands of Gaza and the West Bank. Israel broke that contract. In any case, we don't want British-made weapons to be used in Israeli war-crimes.

So it's not OK for Israel to protect its citizens when they are fired on for over eight years from Gaza? Does it also mean that Israel can only use its aircraft on terrorists when they occupy a school, village or coffee house inside Israel?

... why don't they invent non-harmful weapons to be sold to armies they don't approve of? Like water pistols, bombs that detonate at altitude, showering popcorn all over the place, hand grenades with loudspeakers that just make an explosive sound.

If the object of the peace process is for Israel to withdraw from Gaza and most of the West Bank (and that seems to be the object of the Brits without regard for whether the Palestinians cease war and terror against Israel and its civilians), then the only way that Israel can do so and remain secure is to have the ability to go back in militarily when rockets rain down on its populace. If Britain argues that Israel cannot go back into Gaza to dismantle war activities against Israel (which is what Gazans launched against Israel) after the full withdrawal, then they are saying that Israel cannot withdraw from the West Bank or have Palestinian populations anywhere near Israel's borders. British MP's, accordingly, are arguing for population transfer because their weak approbation of Palestinian violence only breeds further warfare from the Gazans and the West Bankers.

Arms sold to Israel by the UK were used in Cast Lead '... in direct contravention to the U.K. government's policy that U.K. arms exports to Israel should not be used in the occupied territories.' Tosh. Many of my fellow Britons certainly have lost any pretense of reason and common sense, let alone the facts. Gaza is *NOT* - repeat, *NOT* - 'occupied territory' - except by Hamas. Cast Lead was fought because Gaza's dictators kept lobbing rockets from there into Israel. What is really being said by these MPs is that Israel has no right to self-defence, full stop. Not surprisingly, either, as I guess they would like that inconvenient little 'fact on the ground' - called Israel - wuped off the map. MV

I think it's more like the Hyphenated "Occupied Territories." Meaning the whole thing really. The Left and the Pakis. They have a big toe hold on England. I'm not sure where this is going but it don't look good at all. Not good at all. Tell you one thing. I will do everything possible to help President Obama because I think he has a good heart and that he really loves Israel and the Jewish People. The UK is mixed up right now. I'm glad I don't live over there.

Lets see here.Brits sell ISrael cpomponenets to use in F 16 and apache helicopters. These machines are tools of war. Now the Brits dont want these tools used in war because they have brit components in them What a bunch of blowhards. Seems teh brits can suck and blow at the same time. The sun has indeed set on the Former Empire, the porch lite is on, but nobody is home. Pity the weak kneed brits